The Walk: Real Stories of Faith - Carl and Laura Lentz: What It Took to Put It Back Together
Carl Lentz led Hillsong NYC — thousands in a weekend, celebrity mentorships, an Oprah interview — until his extramarital affair became national news and, as he puts it, "that chapter that God had given us to entrust just collapsed." Six years later he and his wife Laura have written Overcoming Infidelity, and in this conversation with Kurtis Parks, Carl talks about what the years since have actually required. He opens by naming what Instagram never showed: a church that was "way bigger than us," led by a man who "had some serious cracks everywhere." The difference, he says, is what you do with them. "There's a couple deep in my soul that I made a decision to ignore and to overlook and to allow to fester. And eventually that leads to extraordinary pain." His summary is blunt: "When you let sin do what it does unchecked, the collateral damage is severe." Carl rejects the idea that fame changes people. "Fame isn't really the thing that changes anybody. It just is a big spotlight, exposes who you've always been." He adds that the claim is always made by someone who has never had influence. On gifting he's equally direct — charisma "functions in sin, out of sin, good, bad," and what sits underneath it is what needs care. His warning to leaders: handle the things you don't want to handle, because eventually they will handle you. He talks about preaching from open wounds rather than scars, and about refusing to live in shame over what he did. "We can't curate our testimony. So if I'm gonna stand on my testimony that Jesus is the redeemer and he's the God that can lift every head, well, I gotta do it now too." He describes the discipline of holding one story about himself instead of three: "I'm healing, God's redeeming. I can do nothing about the past. I can do everything about the right now and where I'm headed." He also takes apart the label that follows him. "God is the one that gives grace. We can destroy our reputation, our platform, but grace is a gift from God given without merit. You can't fall from grace." On critics he's unbothered — "I'm not in that courtroom, brother" — though he's careful to add, "I definitely care about what people think. Anybody who says otherwise, I don't trust them. It's how I care." The back half is practical. On telling their children, the hardest chapter to write: "As the guy who started the party, you can't leave when the songs get a little bit uncomfortable. You gotta dance through it all." On marriage: "Marriage is beautiful. It's not hard. We make it hard" — and most contention, he says, traces to somebody not sharing a thought or a feeling until the distance stacks up. On doing it alone he's emphatic that it can't be done, and offers to celebrate anyone who proves him wrong. And on accountability culture in the church, he walks through a checkbox conversation and shows how easily he used to pass: "You know how to lie too." Honesty is the goal. Accountability is only what helps you keep it. "Accountability is not the goal. Honesty is the goal. Accountability is what helps you maintain honesty." — Carl Lentz IN THIS EPISODE The cracks were always there. Carl describes a church that was "way bigger than us" led by a man with "serious cracks everywhere" — and says the difference between leaders isn't whether they have them, but what they do with them. Fame is a spotlight, not a solvent. "It just is a big spotlight, exposes who you've always been." Charisma is morally neutral. "That functions in sin, out of sin, good, bad. It's the stuff that the charisma's under that requires extraordinary care." Preaching from open wounds. He distinguishes scars from open wounds, and admits he was doing the second while believing he was doing the first. The disgrace argument. "You can't disgrace another person. God is the one that gives grace." One story instead of three. "If I believe a different story, my kids lose aga
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