Some Work, All Play

David Roche and Megan Roche

Five to ten topics, sometimes about running, with lots of love and enthusiasm and science. We dig deep into training, races, studies, pop culture, and much more! With Megan Roche, M.D. and David Roche!

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326 episodes
Updated July 28

Episodes326

Newest first

Feb 21, 2023 · 1 hr 19 min
142. Double Threshold Workouts, Black Canyon 100k Recap, and Blood Tests!
This week's episode is jam-packed with happiness and fun! The main training topic was on 2 workouts that could have outsized benefits for lactate clearance and performance at every distance. The first workout is SO HOT right now: double thresholds, popularized by Norwegian training systems. The second is not quite as hot, but no less fun: post-interval moderate running. These sessions are on the cutting-edge of training theory, mixing a little bit of science with a solid serving of magic! We also talked about the importance of understanding your blood work. Yes, David finally got a blood test, and he deserves at least 3 to 5 lollipops. The results were fascinating and weird, demonstrating why it's so key to take a peek under the hood to understand your physiology. And that's just the start! Other topics: the Black Canyon 100k and shooting your shots, the universal relevance of heat adaptation and hydration, informed supplementation, mental health and loving your ghosts, a business case study on Strava's handling of a recent crisis, a follow-up to the relationship episode, and much more. We also talked about our new favorite book "Good For A Girl," and how it can transform your approach to athletics. Like Lauren Fleshman, let's value GUTS more than the win. For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. WOOHOO! Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap
Feb 14, 2023 · 1 hr 25 min
141. Why Athletes Are Running So Fast, Eating Before Running, and 10 Questions on Relationships and Love!
This week's VERY SPECIAL episode was a pure celebration! We didn't want to stop recording, so there are a few more minutes of fun. The main training topic was an exploration of why athletes are getting faster at every distance. Our theories involve converging training approaches, feedback processes from shoe technology, and an emphasis on adequate fueling. What does the future hold? It's incredibly exciting! We also talked about practical recommendations for eating before running, starting in the science and extending to what athletes actually do in practice. Get your oatmeal packets ready. Plus we review a new study on running economy and performance, along with the training implications! But what makes this episode so special is the final 35 minutes, where we answer questions on relationships and love from podcast listeners! The questions touch on everything from intimacy to break-ups. We are not experts, but we think it'll be so much fun. Prepare yourselves for some sound effects too! For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! WOOHOO! Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap
Feb 7, 2023 · 1 hr 8 min
140. Kara Goucher Interview! Olympian and Life Boss on Vulnerability and Strength!
We had such a life-affirming interview with one of our all-time heroes, Kara Goucher! Kara became famous as one of the best runners in the world, winning 3 national championships in college, a silver medal in the 10k at the World Championships, and making 2 Olympic teams. But the running accolades are just the start of her journey. Kara embraces the whole community, persevering through her own adversity to uplift and inspire others. She co-hosts the "Nobody Asked Us" podcast with Des Linden, which debuted as the most successful running podcast on the planet. She does live announcing for distance running on ESPN and NBC. And in March, her book "The Longest Race" is coming out, and it's already getting rave reviews! On the episode, she describes her journey from being a kid in Minnesota to an international superstar. Our admiration for her is not about the running achievements. It's about all of the moments during that journey when she faced adversity, felt the emotions, and came back swinging! Kara proved doubters wrong (including the doubter in her own head). She courageously spoke her truth and confronted abusive practices at the Nike Oregon Project. And now, she's telling her story to model vulnerability and strength for everyone else that might have doubts in their own lives. We absolutely love Kara, and we can't wait for you to hear this interview! For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! WOOHOO! Pre-order Kara's new book: https://www.amazon.com/Longest-Race-Inside-Deception-Running/dp/1982179147 Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap
Jan 31, 2023 · 1 hr 19 min
139. Using Heart Rate Data, Improving Hemoglobin Mass, and SHOE NEWS!
This week's episode was such a fun romp! The main training topic involved the often-overlooked variable of hemoglobin mass, and how optimizing hemoglobin levels for your individual genetics could help you bring out your inner aerobic monster. Important considerations: training intensity/stress, nutrition, iron intake, and oxygen stress like altitude... plus some wild new science on how year-round heat exposure may help. We also had a follow-up based on listener questions about how we like athletes to use heart rate data from their watches. Simple calculations to figure out your Zone 2 can help make running more productive and MORE FUN! Other topics: bands-core-massage replacing gym-tan-laundry, an update on Leo's health journey, setting little goals and how athletics can help, our framework for evaluating running shoes, ways to think about adding cross training, and the etiquette of going to the bathroom during races. We also read the most touching and soul-affirming listener message. We love you all so much! This episode was our second hottest date of the week, after our 15-minute trip to the running shoe store. There is nothing sexier than trying on some new supershoes! For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. WOOHOO! Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap
Jan 24, 2023 · 1 hr 16 min
138. How To Set Heart Rate Zones, Eating Before and After Runs, and CARB LOVE!
This week’s episode was a total joy ride! The main training topic involved how underperformance is linked with reduced adaptation rates, with possible connections to endocrine system responses. That has major implications for how we approach training and life stress, plus eating before and after runs! We also talked about how to approximate heart rate zones with a small amount of data. You’ll never have to guess again! Other topics: hamstring strengthening, uncertainty and fear (through the lens of being new parents), the benefits of percussive massage (get that vibrator game going), the wonderful Recover Athletics app, a follow-up on the microbiome and probiotics, the reality show "The Climb," holistic training approaches, and using few-week training micro-cycles. We also talk about why VO2 max approximation is unhelpful. Imagine your VO2 max is world-class, and BELIEVE accordingly. Coach Vanessa Carlton would want it that way! For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! WOOHOO! Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap
Jan 17, 2023 · 1 hr 16 min
137. Heart Rate Tips, WILD Science on Microbiome and Motivation, and Enhancing Adaptations!
This week's episode was such a joyful treat! The main training topic involved understanding training intensity in the context of heart rate drift, where the heart rate rises across an activity. That's especially important for improving aerobic threshold over time, a key to performance at all distances! We also talked about our new FAVORITE STUDY OF ALL TIME, on how the microbiome may influence motivation via dopamine levels in the brain. It's a mouse study that could have profound implications for how we understand human health in the future, including gut health practices. You know we're all about that RAT NEWS. Other topics: a study on Strava as a social network, a fascinating analysis of what led to underperformance in a world-class athlete and how they rebounded out of that valley, the adaptation importance of balancing stress and eating enough always, "The Last Of Us" showing how athletic supplements can turn people into zombies, why it's fine to drop lots of balls in life, and 3 parenting reflections coming up on 3 months. We also unveil the most important snack revelation you'll ever hear. BUTTER TUBS FOR ALL! For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! WOOHOO! Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap
Jan 10, 2023 · 1 hr 17 min
136. The Art and Science of Easy Running, Bandera 100k Recap, and Core Values!
This episode was such a joyous (and loving) way to kick off 2023! The main training topic addressed one of the toughest and most important questions for all endurance training: what does "easy" actually mean in practice? The answer is nuanced, diving into athlete background, physiology, and goals. Athletes who figure out how to live in that uncertain space can get SO MUCH FASTER, and have more fun in the process. We also talked about a story showing the beauty of sports, featuring professional football player Damar Hamlin's miraculous recovery from cardiac arrest. And that was just the start! Other topics: how we have evolved on rest days over time, the Bandera 100k and the exciting future of trail and ultra running, life and training as new parents, a beautiful listener corner message on the quiet struggles many people are facing, a far-reaching conversation about core values, and much more! The core value that guides us the most? Giving you THE BEST PLAYLIST EVER to rock your training. Check out Love, Kindness, and Hill Strides: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2NjJ0CtKcNhO6CUqvmsVac?si=545fec4b15094821 For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! WOOHOO! Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap
Jan 3, 2023 · 1 hr 8 min
135. Amelia Boone Interview! Learning to Love Yourself and Crush Souls
We had the most fun and inspiring interview with one of our best friends in the whole world, Amelia Boone! Amelia is a world-class athlete with 4 world championships in obstacle course racing, a recent win at the Spartan Trail 100k World Championships, and numerous other accomplishments. Those accolades led to magazine covers and a public profile at times when she was working through an internal journey that couldn't be portrayed in glossy photoshoots. So what did Amelia do? She opened up, she got vulnerable, and she learned to love herself independent of her achievements. Amelia is defined by courage. She talked to us about her treatment journey for an eating disorder, why she advocates for others fighting unseen battles, the importance of complete honesty, making athletics fun, and balancing that independence from external validation with a competitive (and fun) desire to CRUSH SOULS. Do you want to start 2023 with some HOT FLAMING INSPIRATION? Then this is the interview for you. We love Amelia, and we can't wait for you to listen to this interview. Most importantly, we think that after you listen, you'll love yourself a tiny bit more, too. We appreciate you all so much. WOOHOO! Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap
Dec 27, 2022 · 1 hr 17 min
134. The Ultimate 2022 Top-10 List, Trail Runners v. Road Runners, and Training Races!
The 2022 celebration episode brought all of the joy! We started with a holiday recap, including a burst-pipe adventure and a VERY IMPORTANT digression about vibrators. This week's big training tip involves a stunning study on self-talk, showing downright bonkers results. Other topics: the ULTIMATE top-10 list for 2022 (we promise that it is vaguely running related), our theory on using races as training throughout the year, the uncertain definition of "supercompensation," a new study on trail runners v. road runners, what the study results mean for training, and much more! The episode finishes with a Listener Corner email that will make you feel so much love and appreciation for existence. Thank you all for giving us the best year! We can't wait for what's ahead in 2023. We are all the sexiest monsters on the hill strides! For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! WOOHOO! Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap
Dec 20, 2022 · 1 hr 19 min
133. Improving Fatigue Resistance, Loving Pressure, and Endocrine System Training!
This episode brought the science and the FUN! We started with an overview of studies on penalty kicks, leading to a broader discussion on managing pressure over time in sports and life. It's all about shooting those shots, with openness and vulnerability! This week's big training tip is on encouraging adaptation through a training framework that considers the endocrine system. It's important for running and for the bedroom! Other topics: a public service announcement about the worst type of weather (WIND IS HORRIBLE), a new study on fatigue resistance with major training implications, a reflection on the science of coaching and leadership via a 2021 study, post-exercise ketone ingestion, long tempo runs, and much more! We also talk about the interplay between confidence and vulnerability, through the lens of books about vampires getting it on. We promise that it'll make 50% more sense when you listen. For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! WOOHOO! Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap
Dec 13, 2022 · 1 hr 24 min
132. Alex Honnold Interview! One of the Best Athletes Ever Talks Training and Life
We had a fantastic, life-changing interview with one of our heroes, Alex Honnold! You probably know Alex from the movie Free Solo, which documented his climb of El Capitan in Yosemite, possibly the most historic athletic achievement ever. But did you know that Alex is also a runner, recently completing a 50k, with plans for more? It was SO FREAKING FUN to pick his brain on climbing and running training. We asked some smart questions and some dumb ones, as is our nature. But the training discussion was just the beginning! Alex also talked to us about avoiding the pitfalls of external validation, his advice to aspiring young athletes, the reality of aging as an athlete, parenting, fueling, and SO MUCH MORE. And get a load of this: After an hour, he turned the tables on us and asked questions about running training. His curiosity was inspiring as heck, and we all flew our freak flags together. Alex is not just a legendary athlete, he is a stellar human whose kindness and humor lifts up everyone around him. We loved this interview, and we can't wait for you to listen! We appreciate you all so much. WOOHOO! Donate to the Honnold Foundation, supporting equitable access to solar energy: https://www.honnoldfoundation.org/donate Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap
Dec 6, 2022 · 1 hr 17 min
131. Uphill v. Downhill Pacing, Barefoot Running Benefits (Seriously), and Toughness!
This episode had it all, with some of the most fun training and life topics! We kicked it off with a training discussion that could improve your form and strength FOREVER... and it involves barefoot running. We are not ashamed to speak our barefoot running truth! The main training discussion is on a new study looking at 16,518 race results to determine whether uphill or downhill splits are the most important for race performance. The results may shock you! Other topics: 5 pieces of running news (including doping and race lotteries), novel approaches to tapers, podcast stats, flopping in soccer, breakthroughs in artificial intelligence and what that means for authenticity, and much more! We also talk about the performance-enhancing properties of country music. Yes, we officially reversed our position on country-pop playlists! We apologize for our past errors. You only hate the ones you secretly love. For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! WOOHOO! Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap
Nov 29, 2022 · 1 hr 14 min
130. World Champ Training Tips, Why Strides Work, and Cross Training Science!
This episode was a total treat, getting to talk about some of the best topics! We started with the ONE FORM TIP THAT WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE... maybe. It involves your glutes, so that has to be good. The main discussion is on 5 takeaways from World Champ Adam Peterman's training that can apply to all athletes, including how to balance intensity and using cross training strategically. Other topics: rejecting cynicism, a cellular-level explanation for why strides work, how the principles may apply across sports, using the bike and elliptical for breakthroughs, some cool data on iron bisglycinate, and much more! Most importantly, we finish the podcast with a primer on WOLF SCIENCE from a recent study showing how a parasite affects animal behavior. This episode is some wild fun! And after the wolf talk, you may find yourself setting out and becoming the leader of your pack (especially if you grew up with cats... it'll make more sense after you listen). For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! WOOHOO! Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap
Nov 22, 2022 · 1 hr 12 min
129. Adam Peterman Interview! Western States 100 Winner and World Champ on Life, Training, and Kindness
We got to have a joyous, wide-ranging interview with the athlete who has quietly had one of the greatest running seasons ever, Adam Peterman! He is so kind, funny, and gracious, and we can't wait for you to get to know him in a deeper way during this episode. Adam's last year of racing has been mind-blowing, with wins at the JFK 50 Miler, Chuckanut 50k, Canyons 100k, Western States 100, and the World Championships. We discuss the training and long-term trajectory that led to his legendary speed and endurance! That means a deep dive into everything from weekly mileage to workouts to strength to training block structure. But our favorite parts of the episode involved his answers to probing questions about kindness, image, and pursuing potential in an uncertain world. Adam is a stellar human whose journey is just getting started. This is the inspirational story of how a Peterman became a PeterGOD! For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We appreciate you so much! WOOHOO! Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap
Nov 15, 2022 · 1 hr 19 min
128. Importance of "Moderate" Running, Family Adventures, and Love and Inclusion in Sports!
It's the ultimate celebration episode, full of fun training and life talk! We started with a joyful reflection about navigating through the dark forests in life, and how the path that starts out broken and sad can evolve in ways you never imagine (like with a FREAKING BABY). Then we hit on a bunch of running and life topics: why steady/moderate running is often overlooked in training plans, how to execute moderate running in a base period and all year, Adam PeterGOD winning the World Championships, what Courtney Dauwalter has been up to since our interview on episode 123, and exciting new data and an upcoming study on wrist-based heart rate. The most important part of the episode is a discussion of leading with love and openness in the running community by providing affirmation to non-binary athletes, highlighting Riley Brady winning a Golden Ticket to Western States at the Javelina 100. Thank you for being on this wild ride with us! For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! WOOHOO! Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap
Nov 8, 2022 · 1 hr 8 min
127. Weekly Mileage, 8 Courtney Dauwalter Training Takeaways, and Overcoming Low Motivation!
Today's episode is such a fun discussion of cool training ideas, mental health rollercoasters, and life swerves! The main discussion is on 8 takeaways from Courtney Dauwalter's training to become the best in the world, collected from our interview with her and every other source we could get our hands on. We provide an analysis of weekly mileage (and how that will vary for athletes with different stress limitations), controlled long runs and workouts, strength routines, tapers, and much more! Other topics: low motivation days, how to use doubles (two training sessions in one day), and the icky feelings that come with marketing/self-promotion. It was a total celebration episode, recorded just before the baby popped out. Yes, this episode is also an opportunity to TIME TRAVEL with us! Baby Leo is sleeping and eating like a boss, so it's clear he has learned some lessons from Courtney already. For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! WOOHOO! Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap
Nov 1, 2022 · 1 hr 19 min
126. Norwegian Training Breakdown! The Approach Taking Over the Endurance World
This episode explores the science and theory behind one of the most exciting training approaches in the world! Some athletes from Norway are using variations of intensity-controlled threshold training, double-workouts, and focused specific work to great success on the international stage. While the specifics of the Norwegian approach to endurance training may not apply to everyone, the principles are incredibly important to all endurance performance. Keep easy days easy (mostly). Develop speed, but don’t excessively train anaerobic processes that can detract from aerobic development. Controlled intervals are often more effective for aerobic development, and you shouldn’t be racing workouts. And as for double workouts, lactate measurements, and massive weekly training volumes? Well, your experiences may vary. But it’s exciting as heck to explore the next frontiers in training theory. In this "Science Corner" episode, let's explore that frontier together. Also, guess what? We had a baby! Leo Roche was born on Friday, October 25. Mom and baby are healthy and sexy! Thank you for being on this journey with us. We love you all! WOOHOO! Love Each Other. LEO. Please follow or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts to support the show. And give it 5 stars! Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap
Oct 25, 2022 · 1 hr 15 min
125. How To Build Aerobic Base All Year, Speed Development, and 5 Debates About Gear!
We considered an ABBB tattoo ("Always Be Base Building") before a joyous episode on the importance of aerobic reinforcement, debates about gear choices, and existential questions about running! The main topics: the difference between offseason and base-building, why aerobic base needs to be a year-round focus, how to include speed development both before and during base periods, Alex Honnold's adventures in ultrarunning, dealing with burnout in running and life, the perils of productivity, inclusion in sports, and a new segment where we debate different gear options. It's our last normal Tuesday before our lives change forever, so prepare for lots of giddy fun. For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! WOOHOO! Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap
Oct 18, 2022 · 1 hr 15 min
124. Wild Taper Science, Our Big Nutrition Rule, and 6 Racing Lessons!
We ate a pint of snickerdoodle ice cream to prepare for a fun episode on tapering, racing, and fueling! The main topics: wild taper approaches from elite athletes involving very long runs relatively close to race day, why tapers vary and what that might mean for your next race, muscle fiber typology during training and detraining, a deep conversation on nutrition and why our message is to eat food that you love, celebrating food and clapping back on bad food messages in athletics, a grab-bag of 6 racing lessons, and 2 show recommendations. Plus lots of other fun topics! Grab your favorite snack, because the nutrition discussion may make you crave something fun and tasty. For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! WOOHOO! Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap
Oct 11, 2022 · 1 hr 3 min
123. Courtney Dauwalter Interview! The Legend Talks Training, Life, and Hallucinations
We got to interview the brilliant, kind, and HILARIOUS Courtney Dauwalter! Courtney has won UTMB twice, the Hardrock 100, the Western States 100, and established herself as an absolute force of nature that transcends running. In this episode, we dug deep on her training theory, from weekly mileage to workouts to rest days. But even more fun was a deep conversation about life and motivation. This episode has it all: physiology, training theory, ice cream favors, hallucinations, and much more! Courtney is our ultimate inspiration. Will she agree to coach us? Only time will tell. For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We appreciate you so much! WOOHOO! Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap