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Crazy Together

Marcus & Esme O’Kayvius

If you’re sick and tired of listening to the negative talk track playing in your head, then why not listen to us instead? We are Marcus and Esme O’Kayvius (not our real names), a married, neurodivergent couple with a lot of experience managing our own mental health issues while raising a daughter and navigating the dystopic hellscape that is corporate America. Join us each week as we discuss trending mental health issues and explore how they impact our health and wellness. We’ll also examine the myths and misconceptions associated with mental health and what we can do about them.

Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com

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  • S1 · E142
    Friday · 34 min

    139. HYPERFOCUS BONUS: Can’t Get Enough of Your Emotional Cues, Babe

    September 12 is a very special date, because it was on that date in the year of our lord nineteen hundred and forty-four that a special man was born. A man whose bass-baritone voice, soulful grooves, and silky-smooth string arrangements would serve as the soundtrack for many a romantic evening. Who knows, his voice might even have accompanied (and possibly inspired) your very conception, which would be a beautiful and wondrous thing to consider, if not for the fact that it also meant you’d have to acknowledge that your parents were getting their freak on. But it would be worth it, because it would mean that your addition to this mortal coil was heralded by no less of a legend than Barry White. Marcus wishes him a happy birthday and pays tribute to his legacy with such suitably grandiose and over-the-top prose that Esme had to turn away from the mic to avoid snort laughing directly into it. For her part, Esme reveals a shocking discovery about a common cosmetic procedure that would only be shocking to someone who hasn’t recently received that cosmetic procedure. Because it turns out that receiving a procedure that renders one’s facial expression somewhat muted for a period of time might also impact their ability to feel surprise, joy, sadness and any number of other emotions. Esme shares what she has learned, acknowledges she has only scratched the surface of available research, and teases the possibility of returning to the subject on a full-length episode of Crazy Together in the near future. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Support us on Ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/C0C216B887 Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E141
    Thursday · 45 min

    138. False Memories, Abuse, and Power: Part 2

    WARNING: It’s part 2 of Crazy Together’s exploration of the research and legacy of Elizabeth Loftus, PhD and emotions are running high! Loftus, as you’ll no doubt recall from last week’s episode, is best known for her contributions to our understanding of the malleability and fallibility of human memory. She’s also well known for consulting with and providing expert testimony at trial for the defense in some of the most high profile cases in recent memory. And not just any cases, mind you. Cases in which it looked like some of the absolute worst people in recent memory were finally going to face justice. Why does she do it, and what are some of the far reaching impacts of her continued endeavors in the criminal justice system? Well, that was the topic Marcus and Esme planned on tackling in this episode. And the funny thing is, they really felt like they had a plan heading into part 2. They had an outline with time slots reserved for discussing Loftus’ rationale as well as a summary of some of the criticism that has been leveled against her. It seemed pretty straightforward. But that plan went straight out the window as they began parsing out Loftus’ rationale and considering the implications of all the criticism she’s received. Before long, it became apparent that their plan for capping their discussion of Loftus’ work with the same nuance and perspective they tried to bring to last week’s episode was a pipe dream. Now, they’re just pretty pissed off, so much so that one of the hosts has had to recuse themselves from today’s episode. What has them so upset? You’ll have to listen to find out. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Sources for this episode include: Ahmed, Waheed. “Elizabeth Loftus’ 25,000 Subject False Memory Research: How Covert Narcissists Erase Your Truth.” Medium, Psyche Pedia, 31 Jul. 2025. https://medium.com/psyche-pedia/elizabeth-loftus-25-000-subject-false-memory-research-how-covert-narcissists-erase-your-truth-7bbfb47fd8bf. Brewin, Chris R., and Bernice Andrews. “False Memories of Childhood Abuse: Are Therapists to Blame?” The Psychologist, 7 June 2017, British Psychological Society, https://www.bps.org.uk/psychologist/false-memories-childhood-abuse. Drouin, Michelle, Jody M. Ross, and Tara L. Cornelius. “Current State of ‘Lost in the Mall’: Implications for Expert Witness Testimony on the Reliability of Childhood Memories.” Psychiatry, Psychology and Law, published online 13 Oct. 2025, Taylor & Francis, https://doi.org/10.1080/13218719.2025.2556461. Fomina, Maria. “The Misinformation Effect.” The Decision Lab, 12 Aug. 2021, https://thedecisionlab.com/reference-guide/psychology/the-misinformation-effect. Loftus, Elizabeth F. “The Repressed Memory Controversy.” American Psychologist, vol. 49, no. 5, 1994, pp. 443–445. https://doi.org/10.1037/0003-066X.49.5.443. Loftus, Elizabeth, and Katherine Ketcham. Witness for the Defense: The Accused, the Eyewitnesses, and the Expert Who Puts Memory on Trial. St. Martins Press, 1991. McMaugh, Kate, and Warwick Middleton. “The Rise and Fall of the False Memory Syndrome Foundation.” ISSTD News, 21 Jan. 2020, International Society for the Study of Trauma and Dissociation, https://news.isst-d.org/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-false-memory-syndrome-foundation. Richards, Laura. False Memory Expert Testified for the Defence. Laura Richards, 8 Feb. 2020, https://www.thelaurarichards.com/my-two-cents/false-memory-expert-testified-for-the-defence. Stollznow, Karen. “False Ideas About False Memories.” Psychology Today, 3 Mar. 2022, https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/speaking-in-tongues/202203/false-ideas-about-false-memories. Winton, Richard. “ ‘False Memory’ Expert Testified for O.J., Bundy; Now, Harvey Weinstein.” Los Angeles Times, 6 Feb. 2020, https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-02-06/false-memory-expert-testify-harvey-weinstein-trial. “Ghislaine Maxwell Trial: ‘False Memory’ Expert Testifies for Defence.” BBC News, 17 Dec. 2021, https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59688787. “Misinformation Effect.” ScienceDirect Topics, Elsevier, 2026, https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/social-sciences/misinformation-effect. Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E140
    September 4 · 29 min

    137. HYPERFOCUS BONUS: British Things That Do or Don’t Deliver

    There is a strong connection between dopamine and the things we find entertaining. Our brains release dopamine when we anticipate we’re going to enjoy something, like playing a game or watching a movie. It pushes us to take action. When we find something we like, we get another little shot of dopamine to reinforce the behavior. But, when it turns out we don’t enjoy that which we pursued, well, cue the sad trombone. In this week's HYPERFOCUS BONUS, Marcus and Esme discuss some recent experiences they’ve had while chasing that rewards anticipation cycle. In Marcus’ case, he describes his lifelong interest in a 600-year-old English legend that has NEVER ONCE delivered for him, no matter how much he hopes it will. For her part, Esme shares her relative success with two British shows she discovered recently. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Support us on Ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/C0C216B887 Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E139
    September 3 · 1 hr 8 min

    136. False Memories, Abuse, and Power: Part 1

    How would you react if someone told you they could link such seemingly disparate topics as the Satanic Panic of the 1980s and ‘90s, the discrediting of a once popular form of psychotherapy, and the criminal trials of Robert Durst, Harvey Weinstein, and Ghislaine Maxwell all in one podcast episode? Would you say “that’s crazy”? Well, it’s not crazy. It’s Crazy Together. Please enjoy the sudden burst of goosebumps. In today’s episode, Marcus and Esme discuss the work of Elizabeth Loftus, PhD. Dr. Loftus, in addition to being the link to the aforementioned topics above, is best known for her contributions to our understanding of the malleability and fallibility of human memory. Through decades of research and advocacy, she has reshaped how the mental health and the criminal justice system now thinks about repressed memories and recovered memory therapy. These contributions have helped exonerate a great number of people who had been falsely accused and convicted of crimes they did not commit. She has also provided expert testimony for the defense in the trials referenced previously. You read that right: defense attorneys for Epstein and Maxwell hired Loftus to provide expert testimony at trial about the unreliable nature of human memory. They then used her research and findings as part of their efforts to discredit survivors’ accounts of the abuse they suffered at the hands of the most prolific sex traffickers in modern history. Oh, and she also sold her services to the defense team who represented that guy who burped a murder confession into a hot mic. So . . . yeah, it's probably fair to say she has a complicated legacy. And in today’s episode (and next week’s episode for that matter, because there’s a lot of ground to cover), Marcus and Esme try to discuss that legacy with the nuance and perspective it deserves. However, they also acknowledge that . . . dude, this sh*t just feels wrong. This is the second high profile and highly influential mental health professional they’ve covered in relatively short order who – one might argue* -- have commoditized their life’s work for financial gain**. And so Marcus and Esme find themselves asking: a) What is the role of mental health professionals when it comes to identifying and calling out the systemic injustices that are negatively impacting people’s mental health and wellbeing, and, b) What should we expect mental health professionals to do when their treatments or research are used by the wealthy and powerful for their own purposes (e.g., exploiting workers, avoiding accountability, etc.)? *Additional notes *These Em dashes are NOT AI generated. They were entered by someone who thinks and writes in asides and REFUSES to sacrifice much needed punctuation marks just to prove he’s not a frickin’ robot. ** See episodes 131 and 133 about the rise and fall of Positive Psychology for the first example. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Sources for this episode include: Marsh, Ann, and Greta Lorge. “How the Truth Gets Twisted.” Stanford Magazine, Nov.–Dec. 2012, https://stanfordmag.org/contents/how-the-truth-gets-twisted. “Ghislaine Maxwell Trial: ‘False Memory’ Expert Testifies for Defence.” BBC News, 17 Dec. 2021, https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59688787. Otgaar, Henry, et al. “The Return of the Repressed: The Persistent and Problematic Claims of Long-Forgotten Trauma.” Perspectives on Psychological Science, vol. 14, no. 6, 2019, pp. 1072–1095. PubMed Central, PMC6826861. “Misinformation Effect.” ScienceDirect Topics, Elsevier, 2026, https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/social-sciences/misinformation-effect. Memon, Amina, and Mark Young. “Desperately Seeking Evidence: The Recovered Memory Debate.” Legal & Criminological Psychology, vol. 2, no. 2, 1997, pp. 131–154. Cogprints, University of Southampton Web Archive, https://web-archive.southampton.ac.uk/cogprints.org/642/1/memon.rec_mem_review.html. “Dispatch From the Repressed-Memory Legal Front.” Psychiatric Times, https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/dispatch-repressed-memory-legal-front. Luna, Kaitlin. “Speaking of Psychology: How Memory Can Be Manipulated, with Elizabeth Loftus, PhD.” American Psychological Association, last updated Aug. 2023, https://www.apa.org/news/podcasts/speaking-of-psychology/memory-manipulated. Stollznow, Karen. “False Ideas About False Memories.” Psychology Today, 3 Mar. 2022, https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/speaking-in-tongues/202203/false-ideas-about-false-memories. Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E138
    August 26 · 1 hr 15 min

    135. Movie Night: Title Redacted!

    It’s time for another Movie Night! What are Marcus andEsme watching, and why have they decided to leave the name of the film out of the episode title? Well, it’s not that they don’t trust you. They are just a little worried that their audience, who they know to be educated, refined, and highly responsive to specific stimuli and subject matter, might hesitate to press play if they knew what (and who) the movie was about.. They know this because it’s the same experience Marcus ran into when he first attempted to get Esme to watch the very same film. “A documentary about [REDACTED]? Why would I want to watch that?” Fortunately, Esme has a good heart and an open mind, because watch the documentary they did. And now it’s one of their all-time favorites. It tells the story of three emotionally stunted but successful (and, yes, talented) artists who find themselves at a turning point in their careers. Their audience’s tastes are changing and they’ve made their fair share of enemies. To make matters worse, they’re also realizing that after 20 years of working together, they might not know each other or themselves all that well. So the stakes are clear: they need to figure out how to continue working together, overcome some personal demons, and find age-appropriate hairstyles or break up and, most likely, fade away. And the truly amazing thing is, they’re successful! They meet their challenges head on and, with a little bit of professional support, achieve some honest to god emotional growth in the process. It is an unlikely feel-good story, even if you’re not a fan of the biggest thrash metal band in the world. Shoot. That’s a bit of a giveaway. Oh, well. Whatever. Just listen. You’ll like it. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E137
    August 21 · 24 min

    134. HYPERFOCUS BONUS: Going All in on Watercolors and Medieval Lore

    What does it mean to go all in on something? Well, sometimes you have to go all in if you want to get all out. And even though the previous sentence made absolutely no sense whatsoever, we’re keeping it in the description because writing introductory paragraphs can be difficult. In this week’s HYPERFOCUS BONUS, Marcus and Esme share two stories of going all in to achieve a goal. In part 1, Esme shares some strategies she’s employed to overcome the painting inertia she described in last week’s episode. That’s right. In one week, Esme identified and developed a strategy to keep the dopamine flowing so she could follow through on not one but multiple watercolor projects. Suck it, executive function issues! She also explains how she has been helping their daughter get ready to go back to school, which can always be a challenge for those of us who have trouble switching gears or dealing with the sensory overload of seasonally themed shopping excursions. In part 2, Marcus tries to get to the bottom of a question that’s been bugging him for some time now. Why did the city of Lancaster, PA. go all in on gothic, medieval, and fantasy themes? He shares his research, all of which is backed up by firsthand accounts and information from mostly reputable sources. He also shares some original research on the movie Witness (1985), and the origins of the Amish community in Lancaster County. Warning: his findings from the latter research feel somewhat less reliable, but are still worthy of entertaining. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Support us on Ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/C0C216B887 Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Sources for this episode include: “Lancaster, Pennsylvania.” Wikipedia, Wikimedia Foundation, 5 Aug. 2026, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancaster,_Pennsylvania. unchartedadam. “Lancaster’s Surprising Royal Connection.” Uncharted Lancaster, 15 Jan. 2020, https://unchartedlancaster.com/2020/01/15/pop-quiz-lancasters-surprising-royal-connection. Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E136
    August 19 · 1 hr 3 min

    133. The Rise and Fall of Positive Psychology: Part 2

    WARNING! This episode discusses the positive psychology movement’s fall from grace. As such, listeners who have endured the “horrors” wrought by positive psychology in schools and in the workplace might feel some degree of Schadenfreude, a fancy German word that means you’re happy because someone or something else is getting the shaft. Then again, you’re the one who’s been forced to bottle up your emotions and put on a fake smile, so maybe your joy won’t be quite so shameful. In part 2 of their series on positive psychology, Marcus and Esme discuss the fall of the popular field of inquiry and movement. In doing so, they explain how Martin Seligman, the founder of positive psychology, was influenced by his own contributions to the theory of learned helplessness . . . some of which, it turns out, were eventually proven wrong by decades of neuroscientific research. They also identify what they believe is positive psychology’s biggest flaw: a seeming lack of regard or consideration for the impacts of trauma, genetics, and environmental factors on peoples’ mental health and wellbeing. Some problems can’t be fixed with a smile and a can-do attitude. Finally, Marcus and Esme share their thoughts on how we can begin to move forward in (what they hope will be) a post-positive psychology world, and what we might be able to salvage from the movement. They also share their contact information if, for some unlikely reason, Martin Seligman hears about this episode and wants to yell at them. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Sources for this episode include: van Zyl, Llewellyn E., et al. “The Critiques and Criticisms of Positive Psychology: A Systematic Review.” The Journal of Positive Psychology, vol. 19, no. 2, 2024, pp. 206–235. Taylor & Francis, https://doi.org/10.1080/17439760.2023.2178956. Gruman, Jamie. “Is This the End of Positive Psychology?” Psychology Today, 13 June 2024, https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/dont-forget-the-basil/202406/is-this-the-end-of-positive-psychology. van Zyl, Llewellyn E. “Is Positive Psychology Science or Snake Oil?” Psychology Today, 6 July 2023, https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/happybytes/202307/is-positive-psychology-science-or-snake-oil. Gibbon, Peter. “Martin Seligman and the Rise of Positive Psychology.” Humanities, vol. 41, no. 3, Summer 2020, National Endowment for the Humanities, https://www.neh.gov/article/martin-seligman-and-rise-positive-psychology. Ackerman, Courtney E. “What Is Positive Psychology & Why Is It Important?” PositivePsychology.com, 20 Apr. 2018, https://positivepsychology.com/what-is-positive-psychology-definition. Shpancer, Noam. “Action Creates Emotion.” Psychology Today, 25 Oct. 2010, https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/insight-therapy/201010/action-creates-emotion. Ferraro, David. “Biopower and Subjection: The Strange and Disturbing Case of Martin Seligman.” Archives of a Divided Subject, 10 Jan. 2015, https://melbournelacanian.wordpress.com/2015/01/10/biopower-and-subjection-the-strange-and-disturbing-case-of-martin-seligman. Nolen, Jeannette L. “Learned Helplessness.” Encyclopaedia Britannica, 6 Aug. 2026, https://www.britannica.com/science/learned-helplessness. Kumar, Adarsh, et al. “Biopsychosocial Perspectives on Depression within the Spectrum of Mental Health.” International Journal of Innovative Research and Development, vol. 14, no. 6, June 2025, pp. 15–22. ResearchGate, https://www.researchgate.net/publication/393901612_Biopsychosocial_Perspectives_on_Depression_within_the_Spectrum_of_Mental_Health. Lowery, George. “A Campus Takeover That Symbolized an Era of Change.” Cornell Chronicle, 16 Apr. 2009, https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2009/04/campus-takeover-symbolized-era-change. Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E135
    August 14 · 29 min

    132. HYPERFOCUS BONUS: When Two Things are the Same Thing but Different

    In defiance of the laws of grammar and common sense, Marcus and Esme ask the question, “What is the difference between two things that are very similar to one another, except in the ways in which they are different?” In Esme’s case, she explores the ways in which two activities (watercolor painting and landscape design) can share very similar goals (artistic and aesthetic enhancement) but trigger her hyperfocus differently. In Marcus’ case, he describes how the act of realizing two different pieces of art or entertainment are thematically linked compels him to compare the two and determine which one is “better.” By way of example, Marcus pits multiple pieces of thematically similar content in head-to-head match-ups and declares a “winner” for each one. Who’s on the card? In round one, we have Bruce Springsteen’s Thunder Road vs. Bob Seger’s Night Moves. In round two, Hamlet vs. The Lion King. And finally, for the main event, it’s the various Game of Thrones tv series vs. The Last Kingdom series on Netflix. Who will win? You’ll have to listen to find out. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Support us on Ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/C0C216B887 Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E134
    August 13 · 1 hr 4 min

    131. The Rise and Fall of Positive Psychology: Part 1

    Do you feel pressured to maintain a super positive attitude in the workplace? Are you sick of engagement surveys? Do you wish that the word “grit” was only used to describe the relative coarseness of sandpaper? If you answered yes to any of the questions above, you might have a bone to pick with a scientific discipline and research movement known as positive psychology. According to Psychology Today, “positive psychology is the study of optimal human functioning.” It’s also the brainchild of psychologist and former president of the American Psychological Association Martin Seligman. Seligman believed psychologists should do more to study and promote the factors that make life more meaningful instead of only focusing on the more ‘negative’ aspects of mental health and treatment (such as alleviation of suffering). That sounds okay, right? Well, it might have been; but then the movement's most passionate and industrious followers decided to turn their beloved science into a commodity. Research and education soon gave way to the development of plug-and-play solutions that could be sold to schools and corporations. As a result, what began as a scientific discipline about human flourishing became part of a corporate ideology that prizes efficiency above all else. Positive psychology became a tool employers could use to demand that employees put on a happy face, ignore structural problems, and manage their crippling anxiety and depression with breathwork during bathroom breaks. BUT! As Marcus and Esme discuss in this week’s episode, the tide appears to be turning on positive psychology. A new generation of psychologists and researchers have begun questioning the movement, its methodologies, and its motivations. Could this be, at long last, the end of this influential, disruptive, and (somewhat conveniently) business-friendly endeavor? That’s the question Marcus and Esme will try to answer in this two-part episode of Crazy Together. In part one, they identify the origins of positive psychology and discuss factors that encouraged its spread. They also explore how corporate America ultimately weaponized positive psychology in ways that served organizational efficiency over any concept of human well-being or flourishing. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Sources for this episode include: van Zyl, Llewellyn E., et al. “The Critiques and Criticisms of Positive Psychology: A Systematic Review.” The Journal of Positive Psychology, vol. 19, no. 2, 2024, pp. 206–235. Taylor & Francis, https://doi.org/10.1080/17439760.2023.2178956. Gruman, Jamie. “Is This the End of Positive Psychology?” Psychology Today, 13 June 2024, https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/dont-forget-the-basil/202406/is-this-the-end-of-positive-psychology. van Zyl, Llewellyn E. “Is Positive Psychology Science or Snake Oil?” Psychology Today, 6 July 2023, https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/happybytes/202307/is-positive-psychology-science-or-snake-oil. Gibbon, Peter. “Martin Seligman and the Rise of Positive Psychology.” Humanities, vol. 41, no. 3, Summer 2020, National Endowment for the Humanities, https://www.neh.gov/article/martin-seligman-and-rise-positive-psychology. Ackerman, Courtney E. “What Is Positive Psychology & Why Is It Important?” PositivePsychology.com, 20 Apr. 2018, https://positivepsychology.com/what-is-positive-psychology-definition. Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E133
    August 7 · 29 min

    130. HYPERFOCUS BONUS: Glitzy Travel Journal Raises Questions About Esme’s Street Cred

    Has Esme been lying about an important biographical detail? Longtime listeners will know that Marcus and Esme both come from the same county in southeast Pennsylvania, but they grew up on “different sides of the tracks.” For her part, Esme grew up in a part of Delaware County she lovingly refers to as “Deep Delco,” and enjoys pointing out the many ways in which Marcus’ upbringing was far cushier than her own. However, a recent article from a fancy travel site casts a shadow of doubt over Esme’s street cred. According to Islands.com, Upper Darby Township, PA, a town so close to Esme’s hometown that it actually surrounds it on all sides, is a tourist hot spot, and well worth the cost of adding a few days to your itinerary the next time you visit Philadelphia. So, has Esme been lying to us this whole time? Probably not. Marcus and Esme make a few educated guesses about how this strange article came to be published. And, while they acknowledge that calling Upper Darby a tourist destination is a bit of a stretch, they refuse to take any shots at the township or its people. They even wax nostalgic about the old Tower Theater, a legendary live music venue located in the heart of Upper Darby that closed its doors in 2022 because Live Nation hates you, hates music, and hates the idea of you listening to your favorite music in a venue with less than 50,000 seats. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Support us on Ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/C0C216B887 Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E132
    August 6 · 44 min

    129. Psychedelics and Mental Health Treatment

    Is it possible that the same mind-altering drugs you turned down in college because you hated jam bands (or the drugs you gladly accepted because that’s what college is for) could have tremendous potential as treatments for a whole host of mental health issues and challenges? As it turns out, yes, it is very possible. In this episode, Marcus and Esme discuss psychedelic-assisted therapy (PAT), a psychiatric treatment model that combines the use of controlled doses of psychedelic substances with professional psychotherapy. While neither of them has any practical, hands-on experience with the substances in question, they do read an awful lot about the interesting things other people do. In this case, they’ve read quite a bit about the exciting potential of PATs, the relative successes of PAT-related clinical trials, and the extent to which such treatments are available. As always, they are happy to share their findings with you, their beloved listeners. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Sources for this episode include: Daniel, Jeremy, and Margaret Haberman. “Clinical Potential of Psilocybin as a Treatment for Mental Health Conditions.” Mental Health Clinician, vol. 7, no. 1, 23 Mar. 2018, pp. 24–28. PMC6007659, National Library of Medicine, https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6007659/. Zeifman, Richard, et al. “Psychedelic Therapy, Positive Emotional Experiences, and the Central Role of Self-Compassion.” Research Square, preprint, 22 Aug. 2025, doi:10.21203/rs.3.rs-7420529/v1. PubMed Central, PMCID: PMC12393679, <https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12393679>. Gukasyan, Natalie, et al. “Attenuation of Psilocybin Mushroom Effects During and After SSRI/SNRI Antidepressant Use.” Journal of Psychopharmacology, vol. 37, no. 7, 2023, pp. 707–716. PubMed, doi:10.1177/02698811231179910. Grieco, Steven F., et al. “Psychedelics and Neural Plasticity: Therapeutic Implications.” Journal of Neuroscience, vol. 42, no. 45, 9 Nov. 2022, pp. 8439–49. PubMed Central, PMCID: PMC9665925. doi:10.1523/JNEUROSCI.1121-22.2022. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9665925/ Cavarra, Mauro, et al. “Psychedelic-Assisted Psychotherapy—A Systematic Review of Associated Psychological Interventions.” Frontiers in Psychology, vol. 13, 10 June 2022, article 887255. PubMed Central, PMCID: PMC9226617, doi:10.3389/fpsyg.2022.887255. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9226617/ Townsend, Tracy Kim. Doctor Explains Psilocybin Therapy. YouTube, uploaded by Tracy Townsend MD, 10 months ago, www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGynr1mB2ds Insider Science. “What Ketamine Actually Does to Your Brain.” YouTube, uploaded by Insider Science, 7 years ago, www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_ey_a_yN6Q Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E131
    July 31 · 22 min

    128. HYPERFOCUS BONUS: HYPERFOCUS BONUS: We Saw the Summer Blockbuster Everyone is Talking About and it’s Okay!

    What happens when you mix epic poetry, big budget filmmaking, a huge marketing budget, and the very loud opinions of some of the internet’s dumbest trolls? You get The Odyssey, a 3-hour long action-adventure extravaganza from the reigning champion of summer blockbuster movies Christopher Nolan. Marcus and Esme, who only get to the theater once or twice a year (not including times they take their daughter to watch more kid-friendly fare), decided to step into the zeitgeist and see if the film everybody is talking about is worth all the hype. Were they blown away? Did the movie meet all of their expectations? Did Nolan breathe new life into a 3,000-year-old text? What is their verdict? “It’s fine.” Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Support us on Ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/C0C216B887 Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E130
    July 29 · 54 min

    127. Is Workday’s AI Making Biased Hiring Decisions?

    This episode is dedicated to anyone who has submitted a job application through Workday. Marcus and Esme want you to know they see you. All 100,000 or 500,000 or several million of you (it’s difficult to say exactly how many people have used the platform, but it’s safe to say it’s a lot). Workday, Inc is currently at the center of a federal class action suit. Plaintiffs allege that its AI-driven hiring software is discriminating against job applicants based on protected characteristics such as race, age, and disability. The lawsuit could redefine how courts treat algorithmic hiring, potentially holding tech vendors and employers accountable for bias built into AI systems. Naturally, since the platform is allegedly targeting people with “mental disabilities” (among others), Marcus and Esme think it’s a really important story to share with their listeners. As such, they walk through the lawsuit to the best of their abilities (for educational and entertainment purposes!) and describe how “proxy indicators” and personality tests are allegedly being used to filter out protected groups without explicitly asking for a candidate's age or medical history. Speaking of personality tests . . . Marcus and Esme inform and/or remind their listeners that they actually discussed the use of these assessments in job hiring platforms in Episodes 31 and 32 (a.k.a. Business Horoscopes: Parts I and II). They invite their audience to go back to those episodes for a deeper dive into the failings of personality tests to accurately predict job performance among applicants. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Sources for this episode include: Wilson, Quinn. “Workday Loses Bid to Toss AI Discrimination Suit in California.” Bloomberg Law, 22 June 2026. https://news.bloomberglaw.com/litigation/workday-loses-bid-to-toss-ai-discrimination-suit-in-california Shumway, Emilie. “Workday Can’t Shake California AI Discrimination Claims.” Yahoo Finance, 23 June 2026. https://finance.yahoo.com/technology/ai/articles/workday-t-shake-california-ai-164200851.html Cowley, Stacy. “Job Applicants Sue A.I. Recruitment Tool Company.” The New York Times, 21 Jan. 2026. https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/21/business/ai-hiring-tools-lawsuit-eightfold-fcra.html. Fellows, Sunshine. “The Workday AI Litigation Moves Forward: What Employers Should Learn Before the Courts Decide Vendor Liability.” Freeman Mathis & Gary, 2 July 2026. https://www.fmglaw.com/employment-law-blog-us/the-workday-ai-litigation-moves-forward-what-employers-should-learn-before-the-courts-decide-vendor-liability. Edmondson, Elizabeth. “Emerging Liability for AI-Driven Hiring Tools: Key Developments in Mobley v. Workday, Inc.” Maynard Nexsen, 23 Apr. 2026. https://www.maynardnexsen.com/publication-emerging-liability-for-ai-driven-hiring-tools-key-developments-in-mobley-v-workday-inc “Mobley v. Workday: 1.1 Billion Rejected Applications Put AI Hiring Under the Microscope.” AI HR Institute, 2026 https://www.aihr-institute.com/mobley-v-workday-11-billion-rejected-applications-put-ai-hiring-under-the-microscope. Kang, Weixi, et al. "Big Five Personality Traits in the Workplace: Investigating Personality Differences between Employees, Supervisors, Managers, and Entrepreneurs." Frontiers in Psychology, vol. 14, 28 Mar. 2023, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10089283/. Hardy, Benjamin. “Personality Isn't Permanent—Or Is It? The Answer Is No.” Psychology Today, 12 June 2020, https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/quantum-leaps/202006/personality-isnt-permanent-or-is-it-the-answer-is-no. “1 in 6 Companies Are Hesitant To Hire Recent College Graduates.” Intelligent, 13 Sept. 2024. https://www.intelligent.com/1-in-6-companies-are-hesitant-to-hire-recent-college-graduates “New Hire Survey: Retention Hard When Job, Description Don’t Match.” HR Executive, 2024. https://hrexecutive.com/new-hire-satisfaction-plunges-when-jobs-dont-match-expectations. Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E129
    July 24 · 25 min

    126. HYPERFOCUS BONUS: Bad Audio, Compassionate Drill Sergeants, and Brave Admissions

    Marcus and Esme continue to persevere in the face of unanticipated audio issues that may or may not be supernatural in nature. Anyone who knows of a good AV tech /Exorcist is encouraged to reach out to the show with their contact information. Marcus and Esme share some highlights of a recent trip to the Poconos, where they learned about the history of the Civilian Conservation Corps, a government work relief program created by FDR during the Great Depression. The CCC, which was organizationally modeled after the US Army, created work opportunities for unemployed, unmarried men ages 18–25. Given the current state of the US economy and the young men floundering within it, Marcus proposes reinstating the CCC, and imagines the type of strong, direct, and surprisingly progressive drill sergeants needed to lead the young men of today. Esme then shares the perils of engaging in hyperfocus activities while unmedicated and unhydrated. Esme closes the episode with a brave admission about how she has been feeling lately and what she intends to do about it. Marcus is, as always, proud of her. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Support us on Ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/C0C216B887 Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E128
    July 23 · 48 min

    125. What If We Are Not a Glitch in the System?

    What if neurodivergence isn’t some sort of genetic glitch? What if our facility with hyperfocus, pattern recognition, and rapid threat detection are actually vital survival advantages that have enabled the evolution of all people? What if, against all odds, we are the linchpin of human survival? In this week’s episode, Marcus and Esme discuss a fairly new hypothesis about the evolution of neurodivergent conditions. The evolutionary case for neurodivergence theorizes that conditions like ADHD, autism, and dyslexia are not genetic "mistakes". Instead, they represent natural variations in human cognition that played a vital role in enabling ancestral human groups to adapt and thrive. Marcus and Esme also explore how this evolutionary reframing supports one of their favorite theories. Specifically, that the high rates of depression and anxiety among neurodivergent people are not the result of “disordered brains,” but the inevitable outcome of living in a modern world that was not built with us in mind. Victory laps and suggestions for creating a better world for neurodivergent people abound in this very special episode. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Sources for this episode include: Griffin, Benjamin, Riya Gosrani, and Jessica Eccles. “Beyond Comorbidity: Evolutionary Insights Into the Concomitance of Neurodivergence, Major Depressive Disorder, and Anxiety Disorders.” Evolutionary Applications, vol. 19, no. 3, 19 Mar. 2026, e70221. Wiley Online Library. https://doi.org/10.1111/eva.70221. Fliesler, Nancy. “Autism and Evolution.” Harvard Medical School, 22 Sept. 2016, https://hms.harvard.edu/news/autism-evolution. Muhlert, Matthias. The Evolutionary Advantage of Neurodiversity: A Polygenic Threshold Model for Cognitive Specialization in Human Groups. SSRN, 1 Aug. 2025, https://ssrn.com/abstract=5404371. The Neurodiversity Directory. Neurodiversity Statistics & Neurodivergent Research Data. The Neurodiversity Directory, 2026, https://neurodiversity.directory/neurodiversity-statistics. Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E127
    July 15 · 1 hr 30 min

    124. The Bottom-Up & Top-Down Thinking EXTRAVAGANZA

    Why do neurodivergent and neurotypical people often think and behave differently from one another, and why do they struggle to see things from each other’s perspective? While there are a variety of reasons that might explain these differences, Marcus and Esme explore one that they think is particularly impactful: thinking styles. In this special, vacation week edition, Marcus and Esme revisit the topics of bottom-up and top-down thinking. In doing so, they ask the audience to help them figure out: 1) Do Marcus and Esme hate jigsaw puzzles, or are they just mildly annoyed by the imperfect use of jigsaw puzzle assembly as a metaphor for bottom-up thinking? 2) What is tiger derangement syndrome, and how does it reflect society’s attitudes towards and assumptions about bottom-up thinking? 3) How does Boeing’s recent difficulties keeping some of their planes from plummeting to earth represent a worst-case scenario for the outcomes of enforced top-down thinking? Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Sources for this episode include: McCann, Sam. “Top-Down vs. Bottom-Up Thinking: Why Autistic Brains Process the World Differently.” Green Coast Counseling, 2026, https://www.greencoastcounseling.com/green-coast-counseling-therapy-blog/top-down-vs-bottom-up-thinking-why-autistic-brains-process-the-world-differently. Lee, Crystal I. “Bottom-Up Thinking and Autism: A Different Way of Processing the World.” LA Concierge Psychologist, 2020, https://laconciergepsychologist.com/blog/bottom-up-thinking-and-autism. Main, Paul. “Top-Down vs. Bottom-Up Processing: How Learners Think.” Structural Learning, 2026, https://www.structural-learning.com/post/top-down-processing-and-bottom-up-processing. Blackmore, Laura. “Top-Down Vs Bottom-Up Approach In Management: Key Differences.” Cascade, 17 Mar. 2025, https://www.cascade.app/blog/top-down-vs-bottom-up. Josephs, Leslie, and Thomas Franck. “Boeing Survey Showed Employees Felt Pressure from Managers on Safety Approvals.” CNBC, 20 Oct. 2019, updated 21 Oct. 2019, https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/20/boeing-survey-shows-safety-workers-felt-pressure-from-managers-report.html. Singh, Laura, et al. “The Effect of Optimistic Expectancies on Attention Bias: Neural and Behavioral Correlates.” Scientific Reports, vol. 10, article no. 6495, 2020, https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-61440-1. Sharot, Tali. “The Optimism Bias.” Current Biology, vol. 21, no. 23, 6 Dec. 2011, pp. R941–R945. ScienceDirect, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982211011912. Suster, Mark. “The Benefits of Top-Down Thinking & Why It Is Critical to Entrepreneurs.” Both Sides of the Table, 14 July 2010, https://bothsidesofthetable.com/the-benefits-of-top-down-thinking-why-it-is-critical-to-entrepreneurs-bec7789659a7. Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E126
    July 10 · 28 min

    123. HYPERFOCUS BONUS: Be quiet and don’t shop drunk (or lessons learned in Paris)

    She’s back! Esme and Marcus continue the discussion about the Power of Novelty (episode 122) as they recall some of the lessons they learned on a trip to Paris. Later, Esme shares a recommendation for a book series about a group of witches, vampires, and demons who make a solemn pact to keep their existence hidden from regular people and each other. But can any pact really stop a couple of attractive academics (and secret supernatural beings) from falling in love? Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Support us on Ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/C0C216B887 Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E125
    July 8 · 29 min

    122. The Power of Novelty

    Esme-heads: prepare to be disappointed. Or, prepare to be delightfully surprised! Such is the power of novel experiences. Marcus is flying solo this week. And while he realizes the throngs of Esme fans out there might be loath to listen to him meander his way through an episode without the patient guidance of his better half, he has endeavored to keep it (relatively) short and sweet. In this week’s episode, Marcus discusses the concept of novelty and its impact on the reward pathways in our brains. He also describes the positive impact novel experiences have on our attention and well-being, differentiates novelty from novelty-seeking behavior, and provides some helpful tips for adding some novelty to your daily routine. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Sources for this episode include: Reichardt, Richárd, Bertalan Polner, and Péter Simor. “The Graded Novelty Encoding Task: Novelty Gradually Improves Recognition of Visual Stimuli under Incidental Learning Conditions.” Behavior Research Methods, vol. 55, no. 4, 2022, pp. 1587–1600. PMC10250520, doi:10.3758/s13428-022-01891-8. Accessed via PubMed Central, https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10250520/. Hall, Karyn. “The Magic of Novelty: Why It Matters and How to Embrace It.” Psychology Today, 6 Jan. 2025, https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/pieces-of-mind/202501/the-magic-of-novelty-why-it-matters-and-how-to-embrace-it. O’Connor, Alexander J., Charlan J. Nemeth, and Satoshi Akutsu. “Consequences of Beliefs about the Malleability of Creativity.” Creativity Research Journal, vol. 25, no. 2, 2013, pp. 155–162. Published online 17 May 2013. Taylor & Francis Online, https://doi.org/10.1080/10400419.2013.783739. Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E124
    July 3 · 33 min

    121. HYPERFOCUS REWIND: Who’s That Lady (Doing All That Sewing)?

    Just because Marcus and Esme are taking a little bit of time off to celebrate the Fourth of July weekend doesn't mean they have forgotten about you, dear listener. To ensure you get your weekly fix of their unique brand of neurodivergent meandering, they've decided to replay one of their most downloaded HYPERFOCUS BONUS episodes ever: 61. Who’s That Lady (Doing All That Sewing)? Marcus and Esme will be back with new episodes next week. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Support us on Ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/C0C216B887 Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E123
    July 1 · 1 hr 12 min

    120. When Neurotech met Neurowellness (I’ll have what she’s having)

    What do you get when you cross peer-reviewed, academically rigorous neuroscience with the super-squishy feels-based world of wellness? A lot of FCC compliant (but not FDA approved) devices, a little bit of hope, and, sadly, far too many broken promises. Marcus and Esme discuss the burgeoning trends of neurotech and neurowellness in this week’s episode and share some “yellow flags” you should consider before spending a lot of money on a miracle device or treatment. They also share their golden rule for assessing the validity of any mental health-related service or product: consult a professional before making any treatment decisions. They also watch a video of an influencer testing out a vagus nerve simulator and experiencing some . . . um . . . unexpected benefits. Surprises abound! Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Sources for this episode include: Müller, Oliver, and Stefan Rotter. “Neurotechnology: Current Developments and Ethical Issues.” Frontiers in systems neuroscience vol. 11 93. 13 Dec. 2017, doi:10.3389/fnsys.2017.00093 https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5733340/ Loo, Sandra K et al. “Trigeminal Nerve Stimulation for Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder: Cognitive and Electroencephalographic Predictors of Treatment Response.” Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry vol. 60,7 (2021): 856-864.e1. doi:10.1016/j.jaac.2020.09.021 https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9714960/#S14 Global Wellness Summit. Neurowellness—One of the Biggest Wellness Trends of 2026. Global Wellness Summit, 2026, https://www.globalwellnesssummit.com/trendium/neurowellness-one-of-the-biggest-wellness-trends-of-2026. “NeuroSigma Launches Next-Generation Monarch Device for Pediatric ADHD After Successful Pilot Program.” Yahoo Finance, 18 Nov. 2025, PAID PRESS RELEASE https://finance.yahoo.com/news/neurosigma-launches-next-generation-monarch-160000572.html. Radytė, Emilė. “The Future of Neurotechnology in Mental Health: What’s Coming for Women’s Wellness.” Samphire Neuroscience, 13 Oct. 2025, https://www.samphireneuro.com/blog/the-future-of-neurotechnology-in-mental-health. Israel, Ira. “Neuroplasticity and the Legacy of a Scientific Mistake.” Psychology Today, 24 June 2026, https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/authenticity-101/202606/neuroplasticity-and-the-legacy-of-a-scientific-mistake. Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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