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Crazy Together

Marcus & Esme O’Kayvius

If you’re sick and tired of listening to the negative talk track playing in your head, then why not listen to us instead? We are Marcus and Esme O’Kayvius (not our real names), a married, neurodivergent couple with a lot of experience managing our own mental health issues while raising a daughter and navigating the dystopic hellscape that is corporate America. Join us each week as we discuss trending mental health issues and explore how they impact our health and wellness. We’ll also examine the myths and misconceptions associated with mental health and what we can do about them.

Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com

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  • S1 · E138
    Wednesday · 1 hr 15 min

    135. Movie Night: Title Redacted!

    It’s time for another Movie Night! What are Marcus andEsme watching, and why have they decided to leave the name of the film out of the episode title? Well, it’s not that they don’t trust you. They are just a little worried that their audience, who they know to be educated, refined, and highly responsive to specific stimuli and subject matter, might hesitate to press play if they knew what (and who) the movie was about.. They know this because it’s the same experience Marcus ran into when he first attempted to get Esme to watch the very same film. “A documentary about [REDACTED]? Why would I want to watch that?” Fortunately, Esme has a good heart and an open mind, because watch the documentary they did. And now it’s one of their all-time favorites. It tells the story of three emotionally stunted but successful (and, yes, talented) artists who find themselves at a turning point in their careers. Their audience’s tastes are changing and they’ve made their fair share of enemies. To make matters worse, they’re also realizing that after 20 years of working together, they might not know each other or themselves all that well. So the stakes are clear: they need to figure out how to continue working together, overcome some personal demons, and find age-appropriate hairstyles or break up and, most likely, fade away. And the truly amazing thing is, they’re successful! They meet their challenges head on and, with a little bit of professional support, achieve some honest to god emotional growth in the process. It is an unlikely feel-good story, even if you’re not a fan of the biggest thrash metal band in the world. Shoot. That’s a bit of a giveaway. Oh, well. Whatever. Just listen. You’ll like it. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E137
    August 21 · 24 min

    134. HYPERFOCUS BONUS: Going All in on Watercolors and Medieval Lore

    What does it mean to go all in on something? Well, sometimes you have to go all in if you want to get all out. And even though the previous sentence made absolutely no sense whatsoever, we’re keeping it in the description because writing introductory paragraphs can be difficult. In this week’s HYPERFOCUS BONUS, Marcus and Esme share two stories of going all in to achieve a goal. In part 1, Esme shares some strategies she’s employed to overcome the painting inertia she described in last week’s episode. That’s right. In one week, Esme identified and developed a strategy to keep the dopamine flowing so she could follow through on not one but multiple watercolor projects. Suck it, executive function issues! She also explains how she has been helping their daughter get ready to go back to school, which can always be a challenge for those of us who have trouble switching gears or dealing with the sensory overload of seasonally themed shopping excursions. In part 2, Marcus tries to get to the bottom of a question that’s been bugging him for some time now. Why did the city of Lancaster, PA. go all in on gothic, medieval, and fantasy themes? He shares his research, all of which is backed up by firsthand accounts and information from mostly reputable sources. He also shares some original research on the movie Witness (1985), and the origins of the Amish community in Lancaster County. Warning: his findings from the latter research feel somewhat less reliable, but are still worthy of entertaining. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Support us on Ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/C0C216B887 Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Sources for this episode include: “Lancaster, Pennsylvania.” Wikipedia, Wikimedia Foundation, 5 Aug. 2026, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancaster,_Pennsylvania. unchartedadam. “Lancaster’s Surprising Royal Connection.” Uncharted Lancaster, 15 Jan. 2020, https://unchartedlancaster.com/2020/01/15/pop-quiz-lancasters-surprising-royal-connection. Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E136
    August 19 · 1 hr 3 min

    133. The Rise and Fall of Positive Psychology: Part 2

    WARNING! This episode discusses the positive psychology movement’s fall from grace. As such, listeners who have endured the “horrors” wrought by positive psychology in schools and in the workplace might feel some degree of Schadenfreude, a fancy German word that means you’re happy because someone or something else is getting the shaft. Then again, you’re the one who’s been forced to bottle up your emotions and put on a fake smile, so maybe your joy won’t be quite so shameful. In part 2 of their series on positive psychology, Marcus and Esme discuss the fall of the popular field of inquiry and movement. In doing so, they explain how Martin Seligman, the founder of positive psychology, was influenced by his own contributions to the theory of learned helplessness . . . some of which, it turns out, were eventually proven wrong by decades of neuroscientific research. They also identify what they believe is positive psychology’s biggest flaw: a seeming lack of regard or consideration for the impacts of trauma, genetics, and environmental factors on peoples’ mental health and wellbeing. Some problems can’t be fixed with a smile and a can-do attitude. Finally, Marcus and Esme share their thoughts on how we can begin to move forward in (what they hope will be) a post-positive psychology world, and what we might be able to salvage from the movement. They also share their contact information if, for some unlikely reason, Martin Seligman hears about this episode and wants to yell at them. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Sources for this episode include: van Zyl, Llewellyn E., et al. “The Critiques and Criticisms of Positive Psychology: A Systematic Review.” The Journal of Positive Psychology, vol. 19, no. 2, 2024, pp. 206–235. Taylor & Francis, https://doi.org/10.1080/17439760.2023.2178956. Gruman, Jamie. “Is This the End of Positive Psychology?” Psychology Today, 13 June 2024, https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/dont-forget-the-basil/202406/is-this-the-end-of-positive-psychology. van Zyl, Llewellyn E. “Is Positive Psychology Science or Snake Oil?” Psychology Today, 6 July 2023, https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/happybytes/202307/is-positive-psychology-science-or-snake-oil. Gibbon, Peter. “Martin Seligman and the Rise of Positive Psychology.” Humanities, vol. 41, no. 3, Summer 2020, National Endowment for the Humanities, https://www.neh.gov/article/martin-seligman-and-rise-positive-psychology. Ackerman, Courtney E. “What Is Positive Psychology & Why Is It Important?” PositivePsychology.com, 20 Apr. 2018, https://positivepsychology.com/what-is-positive-psychology-definition. Shpancer, Noam. “Action Creates Emotion.” Psychology Today, 25 Oct. 2010, https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/insight-therapy/201010/action-creates-emotion. Ferraro, David. “Biopower and Subjection: The Strange and Disturbing Case of Martin Seligman.” Archives of a Divided Subject, 10 Jan. 2015, https://melbournelacanian.wordpress.com/2015/01/10/biopower-and-subjection-the-strange-and-disturbing-case-of-martin-seligman. Nolen, Jeannette L. “Learned Helplessness.” Encyclopaedia Britannica, 6 Aug. 2026, https://www.britannica.com/science/learned-helplessness. Kumar, Adarsh, et al. “Biopsychosocial Perspectives on Depression within the Spectrum of Mental Health.” International Journal of Innovative Research and Development, vol. 14, no. 6, June 2025, pp. 15–22. ResearchGate, https://www.researchgate.net/publication/393901612_Biopsychosocial_Perspectives_on_Depression_within_the_Spectrum_of_Mental_Health. Lowery, George. “A Campus Takeover That Symbolized an Era of Change.” Cornell Chronicle, 16 Apr. 2009, https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2009/04/campus-takeover-symbolized-era-change. Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E135
    August 14 · 29 min

    132. HYPERFOCUS BONUS: When Two Things are the Same Thing but Different

    In defiance of the laws of grammar and common sense, Marcus and Esme ask the question, “What is the difference between two things that are very similar to one another, except in the ways in which they are different?” In Esme’s case, she explores the ways in which two activities (watercolor painting and landscape design) can share very similar goals (artistic and aesthetic enhancement) but trigger her hyperfocus differently. In Marcus’ case, he describes how the act of realizing two different pieces of art or entertainment are thematically linked compels him to compare the two and determine which one is “better.” By way of example, Marcus pits multiple pieces of thematically similar content in head-to-head match-ups and declares a “winner” for each one. Who’s on the card? In round one, we have Bruce Springsteen’s Thunder Road vs. Bob Seger’s Night Moves. In round two, Hamlet vs. The Lion King. And finally, for the main event, it’s the various Game of Thrones tv series vs. The Last Kingdom series on Netflix. Who will win? You’ll have to listen to find out. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Support us on Ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/C0C216B887 Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E134
    August 13 · 1 hr 4 min

    131. The Rise and Fall of Positive Psychology: Part 1

    Do you feel pressured to maintain a super positive attitude in the workplace? Are you sick of engagement surveys? Do you wish that the word “grit” was only used to describe the relative coarseness of sandpaper? If you answered yes to any of the questions above, you might have a bone to pick with a scientific discipline and research movement known as positive psychology. According to Psychology Today, “positive psychology is the study of optimal human functioning.” It’s also the brainchild of psychologist and former president of the American Psychological Association Martin Seligman. Seligman believed psychologists should do more to study and promote the factors that make life more meaningful instead of only focusing on the more ‘negative’ aspects of mental health and treatment (such as alleviation of suffering). That sounds okay, right? Well, it might have been; but then the movement's most passionate and industrious followers decided to turn their beloved science into a commodity. Research and education soon gave way to the development of plug-and-play solutions that could be sold to schools and corporations. As a result, what began as a scientific discipline about human flourishing became part of a corporate ideology that prizes efficiency above all else. Positive psychology became a tool employers could use to demand that employees put on a happy face, ignore structural problems, and manage their crippling anxiety and depression with breathwork during bathroom breaks. BUT! As Marcus and Esme discuss in this week’s episode, the tide appears to be turning on positive psychology. A new generation of psychologists and researchers have begun questioning the movement, its methodologies, and its motivations. Could this be, at long last, the end of this influential, disruptive, and (somewhat conveniently) business-friendly endeavor? That’s the question Marcus and Esme will try to answer in this two-part episode of Crazy Together. In part one, they identify the origins of positive psychology and discuss factors that encouraged its spread. They also explore how corporate America ultimately weaponized positive psychology in ways that served organizational efficiency over any concept of human well-being or flourishing. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Sources for this episode include: van Zyl, Llewellyn E., et al. “The Critiques and Criticisms of Positive Psychology: A Systematic Review.” The Journal of Positive Psychology, vol. 19, no. 2, 2024, pp. 206–235. Taylor & Francis, https://doi.org/10.1080/17439760.2023.2178956. Gruman, Jamie. “Is This the End of Positive Psychology?” Psychology Today, 13 June 2024, https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/dont-forget-the-basil/202406/is-this-the-end-of-positive-psychology. van Zyl, Llewellyn E. “Is Positive Psychology Science or Snake Oil?” Psychology Today, 6 July 2023, https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/happybytes/202307/is-positive-psychology-science-or-snake-oil. Gibbon, Peter. “Martin Seligman and the Rise of Positive Psychology.” Humanities, vol. 41, no. 3, Summer 2020, National Endowment for the Humanities, https://www.neh.gov/article/martin-seligman-and-rise-positive-psychology. Ackerman, Courtney E. “What Is Positive Psychology & Why Is It Important?” PositivePsychology.com, 20 Apr. 2018, https://positivepsychology.com/what-is-positive-psychology-definition. Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E133
    August 7 · 29 min

    130. HYPERFOCUS BONUS: Glitzy Travel Journal Raises Questions About Esme’s Street Cred

    Has Esme been lying about an important biographical detail? Longtime listeners will know that Marcus and Esme both come from the same county in southeast Pennsylvania, but they grew up on “different sides of the tracks.” For her part, Esme grew up in a part of Delaware County she lovingly refers to as “Deep Delco,” and enjoys pointing out the many ways in which Marcus’ upbringing was far cushier than her own. However, a recent article from a fancy travel site casts a shadow of doubt over Esme’s street cred. According to Islands.com, Upper Darby Township, PA, a town so close to Esme’s hometown that it actually surrounds it on all sides, is a tourist hot spot, and well worth the cost of adding a few days to your itinerary the next time you visit Philadelphia. So, has Esme been lying to us this whole time? Probably not. Marcus and Esme make a few educated guesses about how this strange article came to be published. And, while they acknowledge that calling Upper Darby a tourist destination is a bit of a stretch, they refuse to take any shots at the township or its people. They even wax nostalgic about the old Tower Theater, a legendary live music venue located in the heart of Upper Darby that closed its doors in 2022 because Live Nation hates you, hates music, and hates the idea of you listening to your favorite music in a venue with less than 50,000 seats. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Support us on Ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/C0C216B887 Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E132
    August 6 · 44 min

    129. Psychedelics and Mental Health Treatment

    Is it possible that the same mind-altering drugs you turned down in college because you hated jam bands (or the drugs you gladly accepted because that’s what college is for) could have tremendous potential as treatments for a whole host of mental health issues and challenges? As it turns out, yes, it is very possible. In this episode, Marcus and Esme discuss psychedelic-assisted therapy (PAT), a psychiatric treatment model that combines the use of controlled doses of psychedelic substances with professional psychotherapy. While neither of them has any practical, hands-on experience with the substances in question, they do read an awful lot about the interesting things other people do. In this case, they’ve read quite a bit about the exciting potential of PATs, the relative successes of PAT-related clinical trials, and the extent to which such treatments are available. As always, they are happy to share their findings with you, their beloved listeners. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Sources for this episode include: Daniel, Jeremy, and Margaret Haberman. “Clinical Potential of Psilocybin as a Treatment for Mental Health Conditions.” Mental Health Clinician, vol. 7, no. 1, 23 Mar. 2018, pp. 24–28. PMC6007659, National Library of Medicine, https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6007659/. Zeifman, Richard, et al. “Psychedelic Therapy, Positive Emotional Experiences, and the Central Role of Self-Compassion.” Research Square, preprint, 22 Aug. 2025, doi:10.21203/rs.3.rs-7420529/v1. PubMed Central, PMCID: PMC12393679, <https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12393679>. Gukasyan, Natalie, et al. “Attenuation of Psilocybin Mushroom Effects During and After SSRI/SNRI Antidepressant Use.” Journal of Psychopharmacology, vol. 37, no. 7, 2023, pp. 707–716. PubMed, doi:10.1177/02698811231179910. Grieco, Steven F., et al. “Psychedelics and Neural Plasticity: Therapeutic Implications.” Journal of Neuroscience, vol. 42, no. 45, 9 Nov. 2022, pp. 8439–49. PubMed Central, PMCID: PMC9665925. doi:10.1523/JNEUROSCI.1121-22.2022. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9665925/ Cavarra, Mauro, et al. “Psychedelic-Assisted Psychotherapy—A Systematic Review of Associated Psychological Interventions.” Frontiers in Psychology, vol. 13, 10 June 2022, article 887255. PubMed Central, PMCID: PMC9226617, doi:10.3389/fpsyg.2022.887255. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9226617/ Townsend, Tracy Kim. Doctor Explains Psilocybin Therapy. YouTube, uploaded by Tracy Townsend MD, 10 months ago, www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGynr1mB2ds Insider Science. “What Ketamine Actually Does to Your Brain.” YouTube, uploaded by Insider Science, 7 years ago, www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_ey_a_yN6Q Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E131
    July 31 · 22 min

    128. HYPERFOCUS BONUS: HYPERFOCUS BONUS: We Saw the Summer Blockbuster Everyone is Talking About and it’s Okay!

    What happens when you mix epic poetry, big budget filmmaking, a huge marketing budget, and the very loud opinions of some of the internet’s dumbest trolls? You get The Odyssey, a 3-hour long action-adventure extravaganza from the reigning champion of summer blockbuster movies Christopher Nolan. Marcus and Esme, who only get to the theater once or twice a year (not including times they take their daughter to watch more kid-friendly fare), decided to step into the zeitgeist and see if the film everybody is talking about is worth all the hype. Were they blown away? Did the movie meet all of their expectations? Did Nolan breathe new life into a 3,000-year-old text? What is their verdict? “It’s fine.” Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Support us on Ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/C0C216B887 Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E130
    July 29 · 54 min

    127. Is Workday’s AI Making Biased Hiring Decisions?

    This episode is dedicated to anyone who has submitted a job application through Workday. Marcus and Esme want you to know they see you. All 100,000 or 500,000 or several million of you (it’s difficult to say exactly how many people have used the platform, but it’s safe to say it’s a lot). Workday, Inc is currently at the center of a federal class action suit. Plaintiffs allege that its AI-driven hiring software is discriminating against job applicants based on protected characteristics such as race, age, and disability. The lawsuit could redefine how courts treat algorithmic hiring, potentially holding tech vendors and employers accountable for bias built into AI systems. Naturally, since the platform is allegedly targeting people with “mental disabilities” (among others), Marcus and Esme think it’s a really important story to share with their listeners. As such, they walk through the lawsuit to the best of their abilities (for educational and entertainment purposes!) and describe how “proxy indicators” and personality tests are allegedly being used to filter out protected groups without explicitly asking for a candidate's age or medical history. Speaking of personality tests . . . Marcus and Esme inform and/or remind their listeners that they actually discussed the use of these assessments in job hiring platforms in Episodes 31 and 32 (a.k.a. Business Horoscopes: Parts I and II). They invite their audience to go back to those episodes for a deeper dive into the failings of personality tests to accurately predict job performance among applicants. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Sources for this episode include: Wilson, Quinn. “Workday Loses Bid to Toss AI Discrimination Suit in California.” Bloomberg Law, 22 June 2026. https://news.bloomberglaw.com/litigation/workday-loses-bid-to-toss-ai-discrimination-suit-in-california Shumway, Emilie. “Workday Can’t Shake California AI Discrimination Claims.” Yahoo Finance, 23 June 2026. https://finance.yahoo.com/technology/ai/articles/workday-t-shake-california-ai-164200851.html Cowley, Stacy. “Job Applicants Sue A.I. Recruitment Tool Company.” The New York Times, 21 Jan. 2026. https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/21/business/ai-hiring-tools-lawsuit-eightfold-fcra.html. Fellows, Sunshine. “The Workday AI Litigation Moves Forward: What Employers Should Learn Before the Courts Decide Vendor Liability.” Freeman Mathis & Gary, 2 July 2026. https://www.fmglaw.com/employment-law-blog-us/the-workday-ai-litigation-moves-forward-what-employers-should-learn-before-the-courts-decide-vendor-liability. Edmondson, Elizabeth. “Emerging Liability for AI-Driven Hiring Tools: Key Developments in Mobley v. Workday, Inc.” Maynard Nexsen, 23 Apr. 2026. https://www.maynardnexsen.com/publication-emerging-liability-for-ai-driven-hiring-tools-key-developments-in-mobley-v-workday-inc “Mobley v. Workday: 1.1 Billion Rejected Applications Put AI Hiring Under the Microscope.” AI HR Institute, 2026 https://www.aihr-institute.com/mobley-v-workday-11-billion-rejected-applications-put-ai-hiring-under-the-microscope. Kang, Weixi, et al. "Big Five Personality Traits in the Workplace: Investigating Personality Differences between Employees, Supervisors, Managers, and Entrepreneurs." Frontiers in Psychology, vol. 14, 28 Mar. 2023, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10089283/. Hardy, Benjamin. “Personality Isn't Permanent—Or Is It? The Answer Is No.” Psychology Today, 12 June 2020, https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/quantum-leaps/202006/personality-isnt-permanent-or-is-it-the-answer-is-no. “1 in 6 Companies Are Hesitant To Hire Recent College Graduates.” Intelligent, 13 Sept. 2024. https://www.intelligent.com/1-in-6-companies-are-hesitant-to-hire-recent-college-graduates “New Hire Survey: Retention Hard When Job, Description Don’t Match.” HR Executive, 2024. https://hrexecutive.com/new-hire-satisfaction-plunges-when-jobs-dont-match-expectations. Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E129
    July 24 · 25 min

    126. HYPERFOCUS BONUS: Bad Audio, Compassionate Drill Sergeants, and Brave Admissions

    Marcus and Esme continue to persevere in the face of unanticipated audio issues that may or may not be supernatural in nature. Anyone who knows of a good AV tech /Exorcist is encouraged to reach out to the show with their contact information. Marcus and Esme share some highlights of a recent trip to the Poconos, where they learned about the history of the Civilian Conservation Corps, a government work relief program created by FDR during the Great Depression. The CCC, which was organizationally modeled after the US Army, created work opportunities for unemployed, unmarried men ages 18–25. Given the current state of the US economy and the young men floundering within it, Marcus proposes reinstating the CCC, and imagines the type of strong, direct, and surprisingly progressive drill sergeants needed to lead the young men of today. Esme then shares the perils of engaging in hyperfocus activities while unmedicated and unhydrated. Esme closes the episode with a brave admission about how she has been feeling lately and what she intends to do about it. Marcus is, as always, proud of her. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Support us on Ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/C0C216B887 Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E128
    July 23 · 48 min

    125. What If We Are Not a Glitch in the System?

    What if neurodivergence isn’t some sort of genetic glitch? What if our facility with hyperfocus, pattern recognition, and rapid threat detection are actually vital survival advantages that have enabled the evolution of all people? What if, against all odds, we are the linchpin of human survival? In this week’s episode, Marcus and Esme discuss a fairly new hypothesis about the evolution of neurodivergent conditions. The evolutionary case for neurodivergence theorizes that conditions like ADHD, autism, and dyslexia are not genetic "mistakes". Instead, they represent natural variations in human cognition that played a vital role in enabling ancestral human groups to adapt and thrive. Marcus and Esme also explore how this evolutionary reframing supports one of their favorite theories. Specifically, that the high rates of depression and anxiety among neurodivergent people are not the result of “disordered brains,” but the inevitable outcome of living in a modern world that was not built with us in mind. Victory laps and suggestions for creating a better world for neurodivergent people abound in this very special episode. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Sources for this episode include: Griffin, Benjamin, Riya Gosrani, and Jessica Eccles. “Beyond Comorbidity: Evolutionary Insights Into the Concomitance of Neurodivergence, Major Depressive Disorder, and Anxiety Disorders.” Evolutionary Applications, vol. 19, no. 3, 19 Mar. 2026, e70221. Wiley Online Library. https://doi.org/10.1111/eva.70221. Fliesler, Nancy. “Autism and Evolution.” Harvard Medical School, 22 Sept. 2016, https://hms.harvard.edu/news/autism-evolution. Muhlert, Matthias. The Evolutionary Advantage of Neurodiversity: A Polygenic Threshold Model for Cognitive Specialization in Human Groups. SSRN, 1 Aug. 2025, https://ssrn.com/abstract=5404371. The Neurodiversity Directory. Neurodiversity Statistics & Neurodivergent Research Data. The Neurodiversity Directory, 2026, https://neurodiversity.directory/neurodiversity-statistics. Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E127
    July 15 · 1 hr 30 min

    124. The Bottom-Up & Top-Down Thinking EXTRAVAGANZA

    Why do neurodivergent and neurotypical people often think and behave differently from one another, and why do they struggle to see things from each other’s perspective? While there are a variety of reasons that might explain these differences, Marcus and Esme explore one that they think is particularly impactful: thinking styles. In this special, vacation week edition, Marcus and Esme revisit the topics of bottom-up and top-down thinking. In doing so, they ask the audience to help them figure out: 1) Do Marcus and Esme hate jigsaw puzzles, or are they just mildly annoyed by the imperfect use of jigsaw puzzle assembly as a metaphor for bottom-up thinking? 2) What is tiger derangement syndrome, and how does it reflect society’s attitudes towards and assumptions about bottom-up thinking? 3) How does Boeing’s recent difficulties keeping some of their planes from plummeting to earth represent a worst-case scenario for the outcomes of enforced top-down thinking? Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Sources for this episode include: McCann, Sam. “Top-Down vs. Bottom-Up Thinking: Why Autistic Brains Process the World Differently.” Green Coast Counseling, 2026, https://www.greencoastcounseling.com/green-coast-counseling-therapy-blog/top-down-vs-bottom-up-thinking-why-autistic-brains-process-the-world-differently. Lee, Crystal I. “Bottom-Up Thinking and Autism: A Different Way of Processing the World.” LA Concierge Psychologist, 2020, https://laconciergepsychologist.com/blog/bottom-up-thinking-and-autism. Main, Paul. “Top-Down vs. Bottom-Up Processing: How Learners Think.” Structural Learning, 2026, https://www.structural-learning.com/post/top-down-processing-and-bottom-up-processing. Blackmore, Laura. “Top-Down Vs Bottom-Up Approach In Management: Key Differences.” Cascade, 17 Mar. 2025, https://www.cascade.app/blog/top-down-vs-bottom-up. Josephs, Leslie, and Thomas Franck. “Boeing Survey Showed Employees Felt Pressure from Managers on Safety Approvals.” CNBC, 20 Oct. 2019, updated 21 Oct. 2019, https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/20/boeing-survey-shows-safety-workers-felt-pressure-from-managers-report.html. Singh, Laura, et al. “The Effect of Optimistic Expectancies on Attention Bias: Neural and Behavioral Correlates.” Scientific Reports, vol. 10, article no. 6495, 2020, https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-61440-1. Sharot, Tali. “The Optimism Bias.” Current Biology, vol. 21, no. 23, 6 Dec. 2011, pp. R941–R945. ScienceDirect, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982211011912. Suster, Mark. “The Benefits of Top-Down Thinking & Why It Is Critical to Entrepreneurs.” Both Sides of the Table, 14 July 2010, https://bothsidesofthetable.com/the-benefits-of-top-down-thinking-why-it-is-critical-to-entrepreneurs-bec7789659a7. Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E126
    July 10 · 28 min

    123. HYPERFOCUS BONUS: Be quiet and don’t shop drunk (or lessons learned in Paris)

    She’s back! Esme and Marcus continue the discussion about the Power of Novelty (episode 122) as they recall some of the lessons they learned on a trip to Paris. Later, Esme shares a recommendation for a book series about a group of witches, vampires, and demons who make a solemn pact to keep their existence hidden from regular people and each other. But can any pact really stop a couple of attractive academics (and secret supernatural beings) from falling in love? Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Support us on Ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/C0C216B887 Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E125
    July 8 · 29 min

    122. The Power of Novelty

    Esme-heads: prepare to be disappointed. Or, prepare to be delightfully surprised! Such is the power of novel experiences. Marcus is flying solo this week. And while he realizes the throngs of Esme fans out there might be loath to listen to him meander his way through an episode without the patient guidance of his better half, he has endeavored to keep it (relatively) short and sweet. In this week’s episode, Marcus discusses the concept of novelty and its impact on the reward pathways in our brains. He also describes the positive impact novel experiences have on our attention and well-being, differentiates novelty from novelty-seeking behavior, and provides some helpful tips for adding some novelty to your daily routine. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Sources for this episode include: Reichardt, Richárd, Bertalan Polner, and Péter Simor. “The Graded Novelty Encoding Task: Novelty Gradually Improves Recognition of Visual Stimuli under Incidental Learning Conditions.” Behavior Research Methods, vol. 55, no. 4, 2022, pp. 1587–1600. PMC10250520, doi:10.3758/s13428-022-01891-8. Accessed via PubMed Central, https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10250520/. Hall, Karyn. “The Magic of Novelty: Why It Matters and How to Embrace It.” Psychology Today, 6 Jan. 2025, https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/pieces-of-mind/202501/the-magic-of-novelty-why-it-matters-and-how-to-embrace-it. O’Connor, Alexander J., Charlan J. Nemeth, and Satoshi Akutsu. “Consequences of Beliefs about the Malleability of Creativity.” Creativity Research Journal, vol. 25, no. 2, 2013, pp. 155–162. Published online 17 May 2013. Taylor & Francis Online, https://doi.org/10.1080/10400419.2013.783739. Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E124
    July 3 · 33 min

    121. HYPERFOCUS REWIND: Who’s That Lady (Doing All That Sewing)?

    Just because Marcus and Esme are taking a little bit of time off to celebrate the Fourth of July weekend doesn't mean they have forgotten about you, dear listener. To ensure you get your weekly fix of their unique brand of neurodivergent meandering, they've decided to replay one of their most downloaded HYPERFOCUS BONUS episodes ever: 61. Who’s That Lady (Doing All That Sewing)? Marcus and Esme will be back with new episodes next week. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Support us on Ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/C0C216B887 Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E123
    July 1 · 1 hr 12 min

    120. When Neurotech met Neurowellness (I’ll have what she’s having)

    What do you get when you cross peer-reviewed, academically rigorous neuroscience with the super-squishy feels-based world of wellness? A lot of FCC compliant (but not FDA approved) devices, a little bit of hope, and, sadly, far too many broken promises. Marcus and Esme discuss the burgeoning trends of neurotech and neurowellness in this week’s episode and share some “yellow flags” you should consider before spending a lot of money on a miracle device or treatment. They also share their golden rule for assessing the validity of any mental health-related service or product: consult a professional before making any treatment decisions. They also watch a video of an influencer testing out a vagus nerve simulator and experiencing some . . . um . . . unexpected benefits. Surprises abound! Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Sources for this episode include: Müller, Oliver, and Stefan Rotter. “Neurotechnology: Current Developments and Ethical Issues.” Frontiers in systems neuroscience vol. 11 93. 13 Dec. 2017, doi:10.3389/fnsys.2017.00093 https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5733340/ Loo, Sandra K et al. “Trigeminal Nerve Stimulation for Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder: Cognitive and Electroencephalographic Predictors of Treatment Response.” Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry vol. 60,7 (2021): 856-864.e1. doi:10.1016/j.jaac.2020.09.021 https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9714960/#S14 Global Wellness Summit. Neurowellness—One of the Biggest Wellness Trends of 2026. Global Wellness Summit, 2026, https://www.globalwellnesssummit.com/trendium/neurowellness-one-of-the-biggest-wellness-trends-of-2026. “NeuroSigma Launches Next-Generation Monarch Device for Pediatric ADHD After Successful Pilot Program.” Yahoo Finance, 18 Nov. 2025, PAID PRESS RELEASE https://finance.yahoo.com/news/neurosigma-launches-next-generation-monarch-160000572.html. Radytė, Emilė. “The Future of Neurotechnology in Mental Health: What’s Coming for Women’s Wellness.” Samphire Neuroscience, 13 Oct. 2025, https://www.samphireneuro.com/blog/the-future-of-neurotechnology-in-mental-health. Israel, Ira. “Neuroplasticity and the Legacy of a Scientific Mistake.” Psychology Today, 24 June 2026, https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/authenticity-101/202606/neuroplasticity-and-the-legacy-of-a-scientific-mistake. Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E122
    June 26 · 25 min

    119. HYPERFOCUS BONUS: There is crying in both baseball and Regency era England

    Is there crying in baseball? As it turns out, yes. And Marcus tells the tale of how he learned you absolutely cannot weaponize a legendary player’s emotional farewell against a rival team’s fan base, no matter how much they might deserve it. Also, Esme reveals the two key lessons at the heart of the Other Bennet Sister: 1) Mary Bennet doesn’t need to be featured in a rapid-fire montage in which she tries on multiple dresses – she’s fine the way she is; and 2) everybody can use a little bit of Indira Varma in their lives. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Support us on Ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/C0C216B887 Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E121
    June 24 · 53 min

    118. What Does it Mean to be a Protector?

    “Do you really think you’re tougher than Hall of Famer Mike Schmidt or Lord of Winterfell, Ned Stark?” This is the seemingly nonsensical question Marcus and Esme pose to their male listeners in this week’s episode (Please note: This question will make sense once you listen to the episode). One of the central tenets of traditional masculinity is that men must be protectors and providers for their families. This is not a bad impulse in-and-of itself. Men should want to take care of the people they care about. However, manosphere grifters like to use the concept of being a protector to justify aggressive, domineering, and violent behaviors and attitudes towards women. The problem with this framing is that men – specifically husbands, boyfriends, and fathers - are the leading perpetrators of violent crime and homicide against women and children globally. In other words, these traditional beliefs might lead men to become the antithesis of protectors. But, Marcus and Esme still think that being a protector is a good impulse; and they identify two things men can do to help them become the kind of protectors who partner with their loved ones to ensure their families’ physical and emotional safety. Now, some men won’t like it when they hear what this two-step process entails. But this is when those same men must ask themselves the very peculiar question from the top of the description (which, again, will make sense once you listen to the episode . . . promise). Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Sources for this episode include: World Health Organization. Child Maltreatment. 8 May 2026, https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/child-maltreatment. United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, and UN Women. Gender‑Related Killings of Women and Girls (Femicide/Feminicide): Global Estimates of Female Intimate Partner/Family‑Related Homicides in 2022. UNODC & UN Women, 2023, https://www.unwomen.org/sites/default/files/2023-11/gender-related-killings-of-women-and-girls-femicide-feminicide-global-estimates-2022-en.pdf. Gračanin, Asmir, et al. “Is Crying a Self-Soothing Behavior?” Frontiers in Psychology, vol. 5, 2014, p. 502, doi:10.3389/fpsyg.2014.00502. PubMed Central, PMCID: PMC4035568, https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4035568/. Millings, Abigail, et al. “Holding Back the Tears: Individual Differences in Adult Crying Proneness Reflect Attachment Orientation and Attitudes to Crying.” Frontiers in Psychology, vol. 7, 2016, p. 1003, doi:10.3389/fpsyg.2016.01003. PubMed Central, PMCID: PMC4934120, https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4934120/. Murube, Juan. “Hypotheses on the Development of Psychoemotional Tearing.” The Ocular Surface, vol. 7, no. 4, Oct. 2009, pp. 171–75. Elsevier, doi:10.1016/S1542-0124(12)70184-2. Burgess, Lana. “8 Benefits of Crying: Why Do We Cry, and When to Seek Support.” Medical News Today, updated 19 May 2026, https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319631. Grabmeier, Jeff. “Domestic Violence Often Comes From Men Who Repress Emotions, Feel Threatened, Study Finds.” Ohio State News, 8 Dec. 2002, https://news.osu.edu/domestic-violence-often-comes-from-men-who-repress-emotions-feel-threatened-study-finds. Petts, Richard J., Chris Knoester, and Jane Waldfogel. “Fathers’ Paternity Leave‑Taking and Children’s Perceptions of Father‑Child Relationships in the United States.” Sex Roles, vol. 82, nos. 3–4, 2019, pp. 173–188, doi:10.1007/s11199-019-01050-y. PubMed Central, PMCID: PMC7030161. Noori, Rebecca. “Paternity Leave Benefits: Important But Often Overlooked.” Benepass Blog, 30 May 2024, https://getbenepass.com/blog/paternity-leave-benefits. Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E120
    June 19 · 28 min

    117. HYPERFOCUS BONUS: The Joys and the Horrors of Family Game Night

    Is the nighttime truly the right time for boardgame-based family fun? For the average person with ADHD, whose attention span is largely dependent on medications they take during the daytime, the answer might be “no.” That’s the conclusion Marcus and Esme have come to after a recent family game night, wherein the O’Kayvious clan attempted to play a new (and surprisingly complex) boardgame for the very first time. Marcus and Esme share their family’s story of perseverance and joy in the face of their dopamine-starved attention spans. Plus, Marcus recalls a family game night from his childhood when his much, much older siblings roped him into a friendly game of global domination. Would an undiagnosed, unmedicated, and far too trusting Marcus fare well against his brothers, some of whom were old enough at the time to rent cars in foreign countries? And would the outcome of that experience instill in Marcus a lifelong love of board games with sophisticated and context-heavy instructions? (Spoiler alert: No). Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Support us on Ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/C0C216B887 Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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  • S1 · E119
    June 17 · 52 min

    116. Don’t Walk Away: An Unlikely and Refreshingly Positive Story About Life with Dementia

    What if our assumptions about the inner lives of loved ones who are living with Alzheimer’s and dementia are wrong? What if the people we love are still very much there? These are the questions raised by today’s guest, Marilyn Raichle. Marilyn is author of Don’t Walk Away: A Care Partner’s Journey, a powerful and uplifting memoir about her experience as her mother’s care partner while she was living with dementia. She is also one of the most genuine and lovely people you’d ever want to talk to. While the idea of caring for a loved one with dementia or Alzheimer’s can feel daunting or even heartbreaking, Marilyn’s story is one of hope, love, and understanding. It’s also a story about the power of creative expression. Marilyn describes how her mother, June, took up painting later in life, and how June’s creations helped Marilyn get to know her mother better, and remember that the woman she had always known and loved was still there. Marilyn Raichle is the founder of The Art of Alzheimer’s, an organization that celebrates the creativity of people living with dementia and the power of the creative arts to enrich and empower their lives. She is also the Executive Director of Maude’s Awards for Innovation in Alzheimer’s Care. To learn more about Marilyn – or to purchase her beautiful book – please visit her website: https://dontwalkaway.net/ You can, as always, visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

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