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The Systemic Way

Sezer and Julie

The Systemic Way Podcast is a therapy and mental health podcast featuring conversations with experts, practitioners, researchers, and people with lived experience from the worlds of systemic psychotherapy, family therapy, psychology, social work, and community practice. Hosted by Sezer and Julie, two systemic and family psychotherapists, the podcast explores mental health, relationships, trauma, resilience, social justice, culture, and change. Through engaging discussions on theory, practice, and real-world experiences, listeners gain a deeper understanding of how systemic and relational approaches can support individuals, families, organisations, and communities.




Artwork by Arai Drake Creative: http://www.araidrake.com/portfolio/thesystemicway


Music by Rena Paid

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  • 106 episodes
  • Updated July 27

Episodes106

Newest first
  • Feb 12, 2022 · 1 hr 20 min

    Decolonising Psychotherapy: Solidarity, the Co-Struggle and Moving Towards Abolitionist Approaches: In Conversation with Dr. Travis Heath

    In this episode we meet Dr Travis Heath, PhD, to speak about decolonising psychotherapy. He generously shares his current thinking, reading and practice around the topic. Travis Heath is Narrative Therapist, Clinical Psychologist and Associate Professor of Psychology at Metropolitan State University of Denver, Colorado. His work has focused on shifting from a multicultural approach to counseling to one of cultural democracy that invites people to heal in mediums that are culturally near. Travis has also written on the use of rap music in narrative therapy, working with persons entangled in the criminal justice system in ways that maintain their dignity, narrative practice stories as pedagogy, a co-created questioning practice called reunion questions, and community healing strategies. Travis is currently co-authoring the first book on Contemporary Narrative Therapy with David Epston. Travis has ran workshops and speak about his work in Australia, Canada, Denmark, Hong Kong, India, New Zealand, Norway, United Kingdom, and United States. Link to his Ted Talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/travis_heath_self_care_to_communities_of_care

  • Jan 23, 2022 · 1 hr 26 min

    Stephen: A Systemic Analysis of the Stephen Lawrence ITV Drama with Film Writer and Family Therapist Joe Cottrell-Boyce

    In this episode we speak with Joe Cottrell-Boyce, film writer, systemic family therapist and social worker about the ITV drama "Stephen" which he co-wrote (2021). We explore themes of family trauma, the impact of racism, institutional racism and the search for justice and peace. We also discuss his 2021 paper "Addressing White privilege in family therapy: A discourse analysis" which was published in the Journal of Family Therapy. Watch the TV show here: https://www.itv.com/hub/stephen/10a0537 Cottrell‐Boyce, J. (2021). Addressing White privilege in family therapy: A discourse analysis. Journal of Family Therapy. Find out more about Joe's work at: https://lse.academia.edu/JoeCottrellBoyce

  • Dec 30, 2021 · 27 min

    Systemic Way Podcast - Catch-Up on 2021

    In this episode we review the past year, looking at how the podcast started, our hopes in creating the content, review of the episodes and a look forward to what is coming up in 2022! Thank you to all the listeners and special guests that have joined us in our first year in making the podcast! Special thank you to Tasmin Arai Drake and Rena Paid for providing the art work and music for our podcast!

  • Dec 11, 2021 · 1 hr 14 min

    Child to Parent Violence and Abuse - A conversation with Helen Bonnick

    In this episode Julie and Sezer speak with Helen Bonnick, author of the book 'Child to Parent Violence and Abuse: A Practitioner’s Guide to Working with Families'. We discuss the origins of the book, core ideas, implications for practice and the systemic ideas which have both influenced and developed her work.

  • Nov 28, 2021 · 58 min

    Contextual Safeguarding: Pioneering Approach to Child Protection with Professor Dr Carlene Firmin MBE and Lisa Bostock

    In this episode we speak with Professor Dr Carlene Firmin MBE and Lisa Bostock on the development, key ideas, research and implementation of Contextual Safeguarding. We explore how the framework of Contextual Safeguarding crosses over and interacts with systemic concepts and gain insights into how we can begin to use this framework in our practice. For more information on Contextual Safeguarding visit their website at https://contextualsafeguarding.org.uk

  • Nov 17, 2021 · 1 hr 2 min

    Systemic Approaches to Leadership - In conversation with Percy Aggett and Philip Messent

    In todays episode we speak with systemic psychotherapy consultants, Percy Aggett and Philip Messent who share their thoughts on rethinking leadership and management through a collaborative approach drawing on systemic principles and ideas. Percy Aggett is a social work trained systemic psychotherapist. He was previously the Associate Clinical Director and Head of Psychological Therapies in Tower Hamlets CAMHS, East London, UK. “I am concerned to create safe, imaginative organisations. I am interested in the different ways in which people learn and how to create contexts in which people learn best. I am interested in developing dialogic approaches to team development and how mental health workers can be empowered to stay working with persistence in vulnerable communities.” Philip Messent trained and worked as social worker in the UK, then as a systemic psychotherapist, in the 1980s, then spent 30 years working in children and adolescent mental health services in the East End of London. He is also the current editor of the Journal of Family Therapy.

  • Oct 30, 2021 · 47 min

    VIVA Talk! In conversation with Professor Hannah Sherbersky

    VIVA talk! In today's episode Professor Hannah Sherbersky takes us through a piece of her work in the style of a VIVA. This episode gives the listener an insight into Hannah's practice and helpful ideas about answering questions and talking about ones work in general. Professor Hannah Sherbersky is an Associate Professor, Systemic Psychotherapist, Deputy Director of Post-Graduate Taught Programmes and Co-Director of Systemic Portfolio at CEDAR, College of Life and Environmental Sciences, University Exeter. Website - www.changetree.co.uk For the full episode of the show we used for Hannah's VIVA please see the link below: Sherbersky, H. (2019) ‘I Blame my Parents’. BBC 3 Documentary. See BBC site here. See YouTube here.

  • Oct 16, 2021 · 1 hr 10 min

    Non-Violence Resistance (NVR) - In conversation with Dr Peter Jakob and Joanne Buchmuller

    NVR: In this episode we speak with Dr Peter Jakob and Joanne Buchmuller on the development, theory and practice of NVR. They share their own experiences and reflections in this insightful and informative conversation. Please do also check out their work at https://www.partnershipprojectsuk.com/ and their numerous publications on NVR.

  • Sep 19, 2021 · 39 min

    Therapeutic Stories and Dramatherapy in Systemic Practice: A conversation with Tayla Bruck

    In this episode we met with author, dramatherapist and systemic practitioner Talya Bruck who talks to us about her therapeutic story writing and series of published books. The Savanna Therapeutic Stories series was established at the beginning of Covid 19 2020 and are a valuable resource to help families, educators and therapists support young people through the use of metaphor. They are available at https://tlrosenbaum1.wixsite.com/website and also on all good book retailers.

  • Sep 5, 2021 · 42 min

    Sharing Systemic Stories - A Writing Project by Nana Bonsu and Marilena Karamatsouki

    In today's episode Julie and Sezer meet with the Co-editors of Pandemic as Systemic Flux which is a writing project within Murmurations: Journal of Transformative Systemic Practice . The writing project has established and reflects a preoccupation with a need for the systemic practice community to feel ownership of our journals, to feel connected to the texts they read, and feel entitled to take up space with their writings. We hear how the writing project came about and some of the stories that have driven the need for this important project to be created. Nana Bonsu is a Systemic Psychotherapist, social worker and head of clinical services at Richmond and Wandsworth councils in London and Marilena Karamatsouki is Psychologist and Systemic Family Therapist in Greece.

  • Aug 22, 2021 · 1 hr 8 min

    Cross Cultural Systemic Practice in Singapore: A Conversation with Maimunah Mosli and Fajar Saban

    Systemic Work in Singapore: A Conversation with systemic psychotherapists Maimunah Mosli and Fajar Saban on how they have introduced systemic practice to the multi-cultural landscape of Singapore. In this episode we discuss cross-cultural practice, the role of spirituality and systemic community work. We also hear the inspiring journey and development of the SYM academy in Singapore.

  • Jul 31, 2021 · 1 hr 11 min

    A conversation with Peter Rober: Inner conversations, dual processes and the self-reflective therapist

    A conversation with Prof. Dr. Peter Rober who is a clinical psychologist, family therapist and family therapy trainer. Peter practices and teaches in Belgium and has several articles in international journals of family therapy. In this episode we hear how Peter became a family therapist and his use of inner conversations and dual process thinking through case examples. Alongside this Peter talks about how different systemic theories support and develop his current practice.

  • Jul 18, 2021 · 1 hr 44 min

    The Solution Focused Conversation - Solution Focused Brief Therapy - With Eileen Murphy and Mawuli Amesu

    In this episode Julie and Sezer speak with the fantastic Eileen Murphy and Mawuli Amesu from the Eileen Murphy Consultants. They provide consultancy, practitioners, and training in Solution Focused Brief Therapy. They work with a wide range of people, groups and organisations such as local authorities and charities. Eileen leads the Consultancy and has, since 1993, devised specialist frameworks for Local Authorities and related agencies including the Prevention & Intervention Programme, The Solution Focused School and Solution Focused Secure & Residential Unit training programmes. Mawuli is an experienced Social Work Manager working in a variety of settings including Primary Care Trusts; Residential Care; Education and Children & Families. Mawuli has played a lead role in the Behaviour Improvement Programme, providing leadership and management for multi-agency teams and engaging headteachers in collaborative working. This episode ranges from hearing the story of the creation of Eileen Murphy Consultants to live examples of some solution focused techniques. You can find out more about their work at resources at: www.brief-therapy-uk.com

  • Jun 19, 2021 · 1 hr 1 min

    Gwyn Daniel talking Family Dramas: Connections Between the Arts, Shakespeare and Systemic Thinking.

    In this episode Julie and Sezer speak with Gwyn Daniel, a systemic psychotherapist and trainer who has experience of working in both children's services and in adult mental health. We focus on her wonderful book Family Dramas: Intimacy Power and Systems in Shakespeare's Tragedies (2018) and the connection between systemic thinking and the arts. Gwyn is also co-author of Gender and Family Therapy (with Charlotte Burck), Growing Up in Stepfamilies (with Gill Gorell Barnes, P. Thompson and N. Burckhardt) and co-editor of Mirrors and Reflections: Processes in Systemic Supervision (with Charlotte Burck) as well as many other professional articles and book chapters. She has taught widely in the UK and internationally on many topics, including children and post divorce conflicts, systemic approaches to families where there is parental mental illness and on systemic couple's therapy. She continues to find ideas about gender and power central to her understanding of family relationships and organisational dilemmas.

  • Jun 6, 2021 · 52 min

    Systemic Approaches in Social Work: A conversation with Nana Bonsu and Derek Dyer

    In this episode Sezer and Julie speak with Nana Bonsu and Derek Dyer about their wonderful work in integrating systemic ideas within the context of children and families social work. Nana is the head of service for a local authority and leads on the implementation of systemic practice and Derek is the service manager for the local authorities children looked after and care leavers teams.

  • May 23, 2021 · 40 min

    Small Acts of Resistance - Thinking about Refugees: In conversation with Esther Usiskin Cohen

    In this episode Julie and Sezer speak with Consultant Systemic Family Psychotherapist Esther Usiskin Cohen about her inspiring work with refugee populations in the jungle camps in Calais. We hear about the Refugee Resiliance Collective (AKA Calais Resilience Collective - Tavistock Group) which is a team of therapist who are developing approaches to enhance the resilience, capacity, coping strategies and skills of refugees, staff and volunteers in the Calais camp.

  • Apr 24, 2021 · 46 min

    Izzat (honour), Sharam (shame) and the Call for Systemic Explorations: A conversation with Doreen Robinson and Dr Reenee Singh

    In this episode, Julie and Sezer speak with Systemic Psychotherapist Doreen Robinson and Dr Reenee Singh about their practice, experience and ideas within their joint paper Forced Marriage as a Representation of a Belief System in the UK and its Psychological Impact on Well-being (2020) which can be found in The International Handbook of Black Community Mental Health (Majors, Carberry, & Ransaw, 2020).