Yardaena Osband & Anne Gordon
Learning the daf? We have something for you to think about. Not learning the daf? We have something for you to think about! (Along with a taste of the daf...)
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A new mishnah! A drop of milk falls on a piece of meat that is cooking in a pot -- is there enough milk to give over some flavor? Note the Torah-level of prohibition regarding the milk. Also, when the milk can be nullified and when it cannot. And likewise, meat, which sometimes disappears against its backdrop, as it were, and sometimes renders a whole pot of meat unkosher.
More on the laws pertaining to the ritual washing of hands: What if you hold the bread via a cloth or gloves or some such and don't wash? What if the reason you don't touch the food with your hands is because you're finicky, and not about ritual washing? Also, a woman who is feeding her child on Yom Kippur and rinses a hand before doing so -- clearly is not in violation of not-washing on Yom Kippur. Shammai the Elder didn't want to wash even one hand, and he was told he must wash both hands -- on Yom Kippur, because he was avoiding doing so inappropriately. OR it was to rid himself of "shivta" on Yom Kippur, for not having washed ritually in the morning. Plus, the question of whether the person eating needs to wash or the person feeding (a child, for example). Also: a new mishnah! Meat and cheese in the same cloth, and guests at an inn who share a table, though one is eating dairy and one meat.
Rav Dimi tells the story of how not washing before the meal in the ceremonial washing that precedes a meal led to a Jew eating pork. Likewise, a story of a woman who ended up divorced because of not washing after the meal. Another version of the story -- replace "pork" with non-kosher meat and "divorce" with death. Also, the difference between ritual washing and washing for cleanliness, or washing for produce. Plus, the proper way to wash your hands for eating regular meat, in contrast to the extra washing done for terumah.
On using bread as a napkin, to wipe your mouth from a given flavor. Also, how long to wait between milk (cheese) and meat -- perhaps no time at all, as it turns out. Though some were known for waiting a full 24 hours, no less, from meat to dairy. Plus, salt from Sodom -- a very fine salt -- that gave rise to the practice of washing one's hands after the given meal. At one point, it was a very widespread practice, though less so nowadays. Which leads into the discussion of washing one's hands first thing in the morning. And other tidbits that seem to be about kashrut, but may really be about customs.
Chapter 8! And the 3 verses that repeat not to cook a kid in its mother's milk. Also 2 mishnayot. 1 - No meat and milk together, not even on the same table, where "meat" refers to domesticated animals, non-domesticated animals, and birds, but not to fish or grasshoppers. 2 - That policy of no meat and milk on the table together is a matter of dispute between Beit Hillel and Beit Shammai. Note that this is one of the 6 unusual times when Beit Hillel is more stringent than Beit Shammai is, as per a mishnah in Eduyot. Plus, the construction of the mishnah for the sake of mentioning the name of the source, as that is said to bring redemption (and for which the Book of Esther is, perhaps oddly, used for the prooftext).
Finishing chapter 7! But first, a case of several sins in one period of time, including non-kosher meat, and in which it seems that 2 sets of lashes would be sufficient. Or should it be three sets? What is the focal point of this dispute? When did it become a treyfa - quite young, as it turns out. With 3 explanations for the various cases. Plus, a discussion of the measure of eating for a prohibition against certain foods - regardless of whether the food itself gets stuck between a person's teeth. So how does this measure of an olive's worth work? And what if one ingested half an olive's worth? Or what if it were thrown up and reswallowed? Is the measure of benefit for the throat? Or for the stomach?
More on the prohibition of eating a limb from a live animal - which applies to everyone, and regardless of whether the animal itself is kosher or non-kosher (though for Jewish, this prohibition would only apply to kosher animals). Also, the Noahides! Plus, one who has intent to eat a tiny bird - alive - or eating limb by limb... and when that intent has impact on one's liability for the physical prohibited act.
On the sciatic nerve of the carcass of a kosher animal -- is there a way out of the punishment for the forbidden food? What happens when there's more than one prohibition, but they are only tangentially connected? Plus, the Gemara does some digging to determine which sage was partial to which approach. Plus, the order of factors that make a given piece of meat prohibited - that order can make a difference in the consequences as well. Also, Jacob and the angel, again. But is the prohibition contingent on the people being called "the Children of Israel"?!? Was the Torah given piecemeal, or all at once at Sinai?
More on nullifying non-kosher food in a larger amount of kosher food. First, remove the non-kosher food, but what happens if the remnants are giving flavor to the kosher food? That's a problem. [What's What? An "Amora"] And what happens when there's a third category of food there? How does that affect the nullification process? Also, a new mishnah! On the prohibition of the gid ha-nasheh, even at the time when non-kosher meat was still allowed (before the giving of the Torah). Which leads to the discussion of a prohibition on a prohibition. And the extent of the prohibition against the sciatic nerve.
More on nullification of a non-kosher food in the greater quantity of a kosher food. In accord with the view that said 100x more than the non-kosher food was necessary, but the idea that it should be 100x seems off to Abaye -- at least if the claim is that that quantity is necessary for all prohibited food in this kind of mixture, but that's illogical. Also, do sinews contain flavor? Do they impart flavor?
The question of 1 in 60 vs. 1 in 61, and the conundrum of eggs -- where they are all counted, and including in the same food -- depending on the ratio of non-kosher to kosher. The kosher food essentially dwarfs the non-kosher food to nullify it. Also, the source texts from the rulings regarding the nazir. With a question of whether the ration is 1/60 or 1/100.
When foods get mingled, and you need to determine whether you can eat the kosher food, or whether the contamination of the non-kosher with the kosher. Plus, how to pull away the non-kosher/forbidden fat, and leave the kosher meat behind, with no flavor of the forbidden fat added to the taste of the otherwise kosher food. Determining whether the non-kosher food imparts flavor -- one needs a non-Jewish "taster," a gourmand or a chef, who knows the taste of the non-kosher food and has the ability to determine whether that non-kosher taste is present in the kosher food (and therefore rendering it non-kosher). Also, determining how much non-kosher food can be present in a mixture with kosher food, primarily via whether it imparts flavor. Which leads to the discussion of 1/60th of the sum total. And the classic example of a cow's udder, that is meat and has milk in it.
2 mishnayot! 1 - Which part of the sciatic nerve incurs a violation of the prohibition? And how much would one need to eat to be liable? Including a dispute and the distinction between what was prohibited at the biblical level of prohibition and what was prohibited at the rabbinic level. With an acceptance of diversity in the practice of kashrut that seems radical for many in this day and age. 2 - What happens when the gid ha-nasheh is imparting flavor to your meat? If it were not imparting flavor, you might well be able to eat that meat. But if it does, then you have to treat it as prohibiting the meat as well. But how do you know whether the sciatic nerve is providing flavor?
The case of meat that is held by a non-Jew: what if it wasn't supervised continually? According to Rav - that's prohibited as a caution against the possibility that the kosher meat was swapped out for non-kosher meat. Which leads to a discussion of that likelihood, as the Gemara argues against Rav. Also, if the meat were unsupervised at any time, was it a stringency to not eat it, or was that required? With a story about a ferry and a festival. Which leads into discussion of how the sages used portents -- not quite divination, but some inference from "signs" that are established three times.
A new mishnah! When a Jew makes a gift or sale of meat to a non-Jew that includes the gid ha-nasheh, because the process of "nikor" hadn't happened. Specifically, in the case of the whole thigh. Note that in some communities, all of the slaughterers were Jewish, and all meat was then presumed to be kosher (if sold by a non-Jew, presumably already purchased from the Jewish slaughterer). And announcements were made when non-kosher meat was on the market on a given day. But in a place without that kind of announcement, then purchasing from a non-Jew would not be permitted. Also, if the non-Jew cut the thigh that had gid ha-nasheh in it, then it might deceive Jewish buyers, which would obviously be problematic. Which leads to a discussion of false pretenses, even when nothing. Plus, other actions a person should not do because they are misleading, even if no other wrong-doing is taking place. Except possibly if it's to demonstrate that one's guest is worthy of honor, as per the cases of wine and oil on this daf. Plus, the horrible outcome of violating a policy of not giving food received from one's host to the host's children, in this case, the matter of 3 eggs. Also, in a town of all kosher slaughterers, how would the Jews make the announcement that there was non-kosher food on the given day, without it being obnoxious in the faces of the non-Jews? They made the genteel effort to refer to soldiers, for example. Note that self-deception isn't the same problem as false pretenses.
If the head of an offering is buried in hot ash to singe off the hair, and if that was in the place of the slaughtering in an upright position, the blood flows out (yes, very gory) and after it is removed, the meat can be eaten. Plus, attention to the inner and outer sinews of the animal's thigh, and the difference between a rabbinic vs. a Torah-level prohibition (the inner one being the gid ha-nasheh). But can the butchers be trusted in what they have to say about the kashrut of the meat, about the removal of the sciatic nerve? In the end, the conclusion is that they are trustworthy. But it's a complicated process and with more and less taxing elements, which might influence their credibility.
First, housekeeping note... Also, 7 interpretations of Yosef and the gifts God gave to the Jewish people. Plus, the 15 pieces of silver that God acquired for the people, i an allusion to the 15th day of Nisan and the exodus from Egypt and another allusion to 45 (or 30...) righteous people, without whom the world would not exist. Or understand the 30 as the commandments that the Noachides apparently took upon themselves - that many more than the 7. But they keep only 3, including not writing a marriage contract for males -- a difficult passage for modern ears. Plus, more on the gid ha-nasheh, and the surprising notion that one shouldn't be culpable for eating it to begin with.
The discussion of the gid ha-nasheh leads into some lovely aggadic passages. First of all, did the sciatic nerve have to be in the right thigh to be prohibited at the Torah level or not? (Hint: It's a machloket). The Gemara breaks down the wrestling between Jacob and the angel from Genesis, to ensure that the injury would be in the right leg. But, again, not everyone thought that was necessary, and for that view, the sciatic nerve in each leg is equally prohibited. With further details about keeping a non-Jew, with whom one might be expected to spar, on the right side, and conversely, one must stay clear of the right side of the Torah scholar. Also, other midrashim/aggadot about Jacob -- how the stones became one larger stone to be his pillow, as it were (solving for a contradiction in the text). Plus, going back to that fight with the angel, and the ambiguities in that text. And the hint to exile and the leadership in both exile and the land of Israel.
More on the sciatic nerve -- the prohibition against the "gid ha-nasheh" applies only to the sacrificial animals that are consumed (not a burnt-offering, but a peace-offering, for example). Though there are those who note that if you eat from a sacrificial animal that shouldn't be eaten from - that will still be lashes, as compared to a fully-burnt offering, which would not levy a penalty for not removing the gid ha-nasheh. And note that a removed gid ha-nasheh would not be brought on the altar. Also, the gid ha-nasheh from the peace-offering -- it should be swept to the drain, while the burnt-offering would entail putting it on the pile of ash in the middle of the altar. Which leads into a discussion of exaggeration in the Torah, by the prophets, and by the sages. But this was not the norm, and the Gemara provides the specific list of the exaggerations from these three sources.
Beginning with some aggadic material - with Abraham claiming about himself that he is nothing but dust and ashes, and that he and his descendants have 2 mitzvot. Which 2 mitzvot is a matter of discussion. The discussion leads to the color of "tekhelet" -- the blue thread in tzitzit, the ritual fringes, and what makes them distinctive. Plus, an encounter with Nimrod. Also, chapter 7! With a new mishnah, and the wrestling between Jacob and the angel, which leads to the prohibition of the sciatic nerve, the "gid ha-nasheh," and the many details pertaining to it.