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EDECMO Podcast

Zack Shinar, MD

The ED ECMO Project is the work of Zack Shinar and Jon Marinaro to bring extracorporeal life support to EDs and ICUs around the world. This site aims to be the ultimate resource for the background, logistics, and evidence for resuscitative ECMO.

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  • 20 episodes
  • monthly
  • Avg 43 min
  • English
  • September 5 · 44 min

    EDECMO 106: Working in the CT ICU with Mark Ramzy

    What happens when emergency medicine, cardiac surgery, critical care, ECMO, and human factors collide in the highest-stakes environment imaginable? Mark Ramzy takes us inside the CTICU to explore the art of resuscitation—and why knowing when to move fast, when to slow down, and how to work as a team may matter as much as the technology itself.. In this episode of ED ECMO, Zack Shinar sits down with Mark Ramzy, an emergency medicine–trained cardiothoracic intensivist, to explore what resuscitation looks like when the patient is already surrounded by ECMO, LVADs, invasive hemodynamic monitoring, recent sternotomy, and a highly specialized multidisciplinary team. Mark shares practical lessons from the CTICU, including how post-cardiac-surgery arrest algorithms differ from traditional ED resuscitation, when to shock rather than immediately perform chest compressions, how to recognize impending deterioration, and why knowing when to “speed up” and when to “slow down” can make all the difference. He discusses open-chest resuscitation, internal cardiac massage, VA ECMO as an exit strategy, and his experience with double sequential defibrillation. The conversation then moves beyond procedures into the human factors of high-stakes medicine. Mark describes working alongside cardiothoracic surgeons, interventional cardiologists, intensivists, nurses, respiratory therapists, and emergency physicians—and argues that successful ECPR depends less on territorial boundaries and more on recognizing what each member of the team brings to the table. Finally, Mark offers a cautionary perspective on the rapid expansion of ECMO and ECPR. As these technologies become increasingly accessible, he emphasizes the importance of quality control, mentorship, humility, and developing strong relationships across specialties. His overarching message is simple: medicine is a team sport, and the best resuscitation teams know not only what they can do, but when to listen, when to slow down, and when to let someone else lead.

  • August 9 · 42 min

    EDECMO 105: Becoming an ECMO Coordinator

    EDECMO 105: Becoming an ECMO Coordinator? In this episode, hosts Zack Shinar and Jon Marinaro are joined by Jonathan Goldstone, ECMO Coordinator at Sharp Memorial Hospital, and Rachel Wallace, ECMO Coordinator at the University of Minnesota ECMO Program, to explore one of the least understood but most important roles in an ECMO program—the ECMO coordinator. The discussion begins with recent advances in their own programs, including dramatic reductions in ECPR cannulation times at Sharp through improved teamwork, standardized equipment, and streamlined workflows. This sets the stage for a broader conversation about how successful ECMO programs are built and sustained. Rachel provides a detailed overview of the ECMO coordinator’s responsibilities, including onboarding and training ECMO specialists, competency assessment, simulation education, quality assurance, ELSO registry management, physician education, equipment evaluation, and research support. Jonathan emphasizes that while coordinator responsibilities vary between institutions, the central mission is always the same: ensuring there are no weak links in the ECMO system that could compromise patient care. The panel clarifies the often-confusing distinctions between perfusionists, ECMO specialists, ECMO coordinators, and ECMO managers, highlighting that ECMO specialists may come from nursing, respiratory therapy, perfusion, or advanced practice backgrounds, while coordinators oversee education, quality, systems improvement, and program development. The conversation explores how hospitals should think about hiring an ECMO coordinator, arguing that programs should invest in leadership early—even before case volumes become large—to build the infrastructure necessary for safe and sustainable growth. The guests also discuss how coordinators influence equipment purchasing, mobile ECMO development, process optimization, billing, and multidisciplinary collaboration. A recurring theme throughout the episode is that ECMO is fundamentally a team sport. The guests stress that efficient ECPR depends less on individual expertise and more on standardized processes, constant communication, simulation, and shared mental models among physicians, nurses, respiratory therapists, perfusionists, and ECMO specialists. Finally, the discussion turns to professional development for new coordinators. The guests encourage listeners to leverage the ECMO community through conferences, podcasts, ELSO resources, WhatsApp discussion groups, and mentorship from experienced programs. They conclude by emphasizing that ECMO practice continues to evolve rapidly, requiring coordinators and physicians alike to remain curious, adaptable, collaborative, and committed to continuous improvement. Key takeaways: The ECMO coordinator is the operational leader who integrates education, quality improvement, data management, research, equipment, and systems engineering into a cohesive ECMO program. Successful ECMO programs depend on standardized processes, simulation, and multidisciplinary teamwork rather than individual heroics. Every hospital must develop an ECMO program tailored to its own personnel, patient population, and resources rather than simply copying another institution’s model. Continuous learning, collaboration, and engagement with the broader ECMO community are essential for building and sustaining high-performing ECMO programs.

  • #104
    May 24 · 58 min

    EDECMO 104: ECMO and the Cancer Patient

    Jon Marinaro interviews Dr. Eric Nadler along with Dr. Gary Schwartz our guest for the second episode in a row Key Takeaways Cancer is increasingly becoming a chronic, manageable disease. ECMO may be appropriate in carefully selected oncology patients. Close collaboration between oncologists and ECMO teams is essential. Modern cancer therapies can work rapidly enough that ECMO may meaningfully change outcomes. Awareness and education gaps exist on both sides: intensivists may underestimate modern oncology, oncologists may underestimate ECMO capabilities. Eric Nadler, M.D., MPP, is board certified in medical oncology. He serves as a medical director of US Oncology Health Outcomes. He remains active in US Oncology Network and Texas Oncology research committees in lung cancer, head and neck cancer, and sarcoma. Dr. Nadler’s passions are oncology research and oncology education.

  • March 18 · 56 min

    EDECMO 103: HIV and ECMO

    Critical Care ECMO with Dr. Jon Marinaro, Dr. Gary Schwartz and Dr. Cedrick Spak – Episode 103 Key Points: ECMO in HIV/AIDS Patients 1. HIV Is No Longer a Strong Contraindication to ECMO Historically, HIV and severe immunosuppression were considered relative contraindications for ECMO. With modern antiretroviral therapy (ART), outcomes have dramatically improved. Patients with HIV who receive effective ART can recover immune function and achieve near-normal life expectancy. Therefore, HIV alone should not exclude patients from ECMO candidacy. 2. Immune Reconstitution Makes Recovery Possible ART can rapidly suppress viral load and restore immune function. Patients with very low CD4 counts (even <10) can recover to normal CD4 counts (>800) over time. This means even severely immunocompromised patients may recover if given time and support. ECMO can act as a bridge to immune recovery. 3. ECMO Functions as a “Pause Button” ECMO stabilizes respiratory or cardiac failure while clinicians: Treat infections Start ART Manage complications This buys time for reversible disease processes to recover. 4. Major Cause of Respiratory Failure: Pneumocystis Pneumonia Common features in HIV patients requiring ECMO: Pneumocystis jirovecii pneumonia (PJP) Severe respiratory failure Cystic lung destruction Frequent bronchopleural fistulas and pneumothorax Ventilation can worsen these conditions. Thus ECMO is used to: Reduce ventilator pressure Prevent further lung damage Allow lung healing. 5. Ventilator Strategy: Minimize Positive Pressure Typical strategy: Rapid ECMO initiation if ventilation causes lung injury Attempt early extubation If needed: tracheostomy minimal ventilator settings Example “rest settings” described: Driving pressure ≈ 10 PEEP ≈ 10 (often reduced further) FiO₂ ≈ 50% Goal: avoid further lung trauma. 6. ECMO Candidate Selection Primary question: Is the disease reversible? If yes → ECMO should be considered. Factors supporting ECMO: Young patient Treatable infection Potential immune recovery Possible relative contraindications: Severe fungal infection Multiple uncontrolled opportunistic infections Extreme cachexia or severe systemic deterioration. 7. Early ART Should Be Started Modern approach: Start antiretroviral therapy during acute illness Do not delay until after ICU discharge Benefits: Rapid viral suppression Faster immune recovery Risk: Immune Reconstitution Inflammatory Syndrome (IRIS) Temporary worsening of infection due to immune rebound. 8. Circuit and Infection Complications Important ECMO considerations in HIV patients: Increased risk of circuit thrombosis Possible fungemia If fungemia occurs: circuit replacement possible re-cannulation These complications require careful monitoring. 9. Cannulation Strategy Example high-volume center approach: Bilateral femoral VV ECMO cannulation Fast Reliable flow Allows later neck access if needed Used especially during high-volume periods (e.g., COVID). 10. Outcomes and Indication Expansion ECMO indications are evolving: Older age Longer ventilator times HIV/AIDS Cancer patients All are examples of “indication creep” as experience grows. The key principle remains: ECMO should be used if there is a realistic chance of recovery. 11. Resource and Program Considerations Decision-making must consider: Resource availability Program experience Institutional risk tolerance High-volume ECMO centers can often accept higher-risk patients. 12. Broader Lesson Medical contraindications often change with new technology and therapies. Example given: HIV was once a contraindication for kidney transplantation Now it is accepted due to improved treatment. The same evolution may be happening with ECMO indications.

  • February 9 · 43 min

    EDECMO 102: ECPR Patient’s Brains are DIFFERENT!

    We need a major change in the way we think about the brains of ECPR patients. We have been duped into thinking that they are the same as regular resuscitation patients, and the answer is that they are not. On EDECMO 102, we learn about this idea from two wonderful people: Ingrid Magnet and Michael Poppe. In addition to the inspirational ECPR program they have created in Vienna, they have published a paper showing just how different these two groups of patients are. They show that ECPR patients improve their neurologic function tremendously over the six months following their event. This really changes the way we need to think about these patients and how we discuss options with their families in the hospital.

  • January 13 · 50 min

    EDECMO 101 – Paul Pepe and Jon Marinaro – Head Up CPR

    How do we improve survival from cardiac arrest? Does Head-Up CPR improve outcomes? Paul Pepe, the premier expert in the field, gives us the data and reasons why head-up CPR can improve outcomes. Dr. Pepe also discusses estrogen and it’s potential to improve resuscitation outcomes.

  • Dec 17, 2025 · 34 min

    100 – Sydney Prehospital ECPR Program with Nat Kruit

    On this 100th episode of EDECMO, Sydney’s very own Nat Kruit tells us how they organized a prehospital system. She and her crew have a wonderful job organizing a cadre of new cannulators to now have a functional system that can provide the residents of Sydney the opportunity to benefit from ECPR. Take a listen, she’s fantastic.

  • Oct 31, 2025 · 35 min

    EDECMO 99: Charles Bruen: Becoming an Expert ECPR Cannulator

    EDECMO – Episode 99 is a gem. Charles Bruen tells us how he has become an ECPR cannulator within the prestigious Minnesota Mobile Resuscitation Consortium. He shares pearls about cannulation as well as the next steps for Minnesota’s innovative approach to bringing ECPR to largest population that is possible. A couple of pearls from Dr. Bruen’s cannulation piece are holding pressure in the groin with the ultrasound probe, understanding that the inguinal fold does not represent the inguinal ligament, inserting the needle at a 45-degree angle, and insertion at the common femoral artery.

  • Jul 29, 2025 · 45 min

    EDECMO 98: Eddy Fan – VV ECMO – Numbers, Nuance, and the Human Factor

    Who Really Gets VV ECMO? Numbers, Nuance, and the Human Factor Is VV ECMO purely a numbers game? Or is there a softer, more human side to deciding who receives this life-saving therapy? In this candid and insightful interview, Jon Marinaro sits down with the legendary Dr. Eddy Fan—one of the most published and respected voices in the field of critical care. Together, they unpack the hard data and the gray areas: prognostic scoring, patient selection, and the ethical dilemmas that come with scarce resources. They also dive into the “sticky” dynamics of ECMO programs, including the subtle (or not-so-subtle) influence that a cannulating specialist can have on who actually gets the therapy. This is a must-listen for anyone working at the intersection of critical care, ethics, and real-world ECMO decision-making. Rubin J, Witkin AS, Crowley JC, Michel E, Furfaro DM, Teijeiro-Paradis R, Ilg A, Seethala R, Zhao S, Fan E. Venovenous Extracorporeal Membrane Oxygenation Candidacy Decision-Making: Lessons and Hypotheses From a Single-Center Observational Analysis. Chest. 2024 Sep;166(3):491-501. doi: 10.1016/j.chest.2024.02.042. Epub 2024 Feb 27. PMID: 38423278. Combes A, Schmidt M, Hodgson CL, Fan E, Ferguson ND, Fraser JF, Jaber S, Pesenti A, Ranieri M, Rowan K, Shekar K, Slutsky AS, Brodie D. Extracorporeal life support for adults with acute respiratory distress syndrome. Intensive Care Med. 2020 Dec;46(12):2464-2476. doi: 10.1007/s00134-020-06290-1. Epub 2020 Nov 2. PMID: 33140180; PMCID: PMC7605473.

  • Jun 26, 2025 · 38 min

    97: Training an ECPR Cannulator Army with Joe Bellezzo

    Is it better to rely on a few highly trained specialists—or an army of less experienced proceduralists? In this episode, Joe Bellezzo and Zack Shinar delve into the evolution of ECPR (Extracorporeal Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation), exploring the pros and cons of each cannulation model. They examine how different cities face unique challenges and opportunities when implementing ECPR systems. San Diego’s approach, in particular, offers a replicable framework that may work for other urban centers. Joe and Zack break down the specific strategies that helped San Diego develop a successful and sustainable model.

  • Apr 29, 2025 · 27 min

    96: ECPR in India and China

    Zack Shinar interviews Pranay Oza, an intensivist from Mumbai, and Simon Sin, an intensivist from Hong Kong, about the insights, necessities, and opportunities for ECPR in India and China. Both of these physicians are leading the charge in places where ECPR is exploding. Listen to this podcast to learn how they optimize their skills and resources to utilize this powerful tool.

  • Mar 27, 2025 · 46 min

    95: ECPR Organ Procurement with Stephen Wall

    Jon interviews Dr. Stephen Wall from NYU on the podcast where they discuss the need for organs and how ECPR inclusion criteria can significantly impact the problem. Stephen P. Wall, MD MSHS MAEd, is Tenured Associate Professor in the Departments of Emergency Medicine and Population Health, NYU Grossman School of Medicine. Dr Wall was project manager and lead methodologist for the NYC uncontrolled donation after circulatory death (uDCD) program that attempted to increase kidney donation opportunities by considering those who die unexpectedly outside hospitals. Results showed the public was supportive of uDCD, so long as permission is obtained prior to any invasive procedures being performed on the deceased. Lessons learned from the Kidney uDCD program provided justification to attempt in-hospital Lung uDCD in NYC, a project funded by NHLBI (R61/R33HL156890 – PIs Wall and Robert Montgomery, MD PhD). These projects involve cross-disciplinary collaborations with bioethicists, clinical experts from medicine, surgery, emergency medicine, and transplantation, both within and external to hospitals and academic medical centers. Dr. Wall’s research was covered in news media including NPR, NBC, and the Atlantic.

  • Feb 11, 2025 · 35 min

    94: Blending Revisited with Aidan Burrell

    In our last episode, Trina Augustin discussed whether we should use a blender in ECPR patients citing the Blender Trial. This month we got the first author of the Blender Trial, Aidan Burrell, to give us insight into the use of blenders for not only ECPR patients but also thoughts on patients on VA for cardiogenic shock and VV patients. Jon Marinaro interviews Aidan for this wonderful addition to this complex decision. Blender Trial - Burrell A, Ng S, Ottosen K, Bailey M, Buscher H, Fraser J, Udy A, Gattas D, Totaro R, Bellomo R, Forrest P, Martin E, Reid L, Ziegenfuss M, Eastwood G, Higgins A, Hodgson C, Litton E, Nair P, Orford N, Pellegrino V, Shekar K, Trapani T, Pilcher D. Blend to Limit OxygEN in ECMO: A RanDomised ControllEd Registry (BLENDER) Trial: Study Protocol and Statistical Analysis Plan. Crit Care Resusc. 2023 Aug 4;25(3):118-125. doi: 10.1016/j.ccrj.2023.06.001. Erratum in: Crit Care Resusc. 2024 Feb 01;26(1):60. doi: 10.1016/j.ccrj.2024.01.003. PMID: 37876374; PMCID: PMC10581278. Trina's editorial - Augustin K, Shinar ZM, Dos Reis Miranda D. Correspondence by Augustin et al. regarding the article "Conservative or liberal oxygen targets in patients on venoarterial extracorporeal membrane oxygenation". Intensive Care Med. 2025 Jan 21. doi: 10.1007/s00134-025-07791-7. Epub ahead of print. PMID: 39836262.

  • Dec 26, 2024 · 51 min

    EDECMO 93: Do you Blend? with Trina Augustin

    This seems like such a basic question and yet the answer is not an answer at all. Rather it is an educated opinion. Today we ask the question - Should we blend ECPR patients? Here's the basic problem. We think hyperoxemia in critically ill patients is bad (Remember hyperoxemia is high oxygen in blood, hyperoxia is high oxygen in the tissue). We think that hypoxemia in critically ill patients is bad. So if a patient gets put on ECMO and we can make the oxygen level coming out of the machine whatever level we want, what level should we set it at? Well, today, Trina Augustin teaches how this seemingly simple problem is actually quite complex. Trina is an ECMO superstar. She practices at Mayo in Rochester as CV Intensivist with a background in CC/EM. She teaches the most complex part of Reanimate - post pump critical care and yes she cannulates patients as well. Listen to Zack and Trina banter over this complex topic specifically focusing on the release of the Blender Trial.

  • Nov 7, 2024 · 57 min

    92 – Mark Dennis – Pearls from Sydney

    EDECMO episode 92 features Dr. Mark Dennis, a cardiologist from Sydney, who has published extensively in the field of ECPR. Zack and Mark talk about so many subjects including pre-hospital considerations, algorithmic management of post ECMO initiation cardiac arrest patients, ventilation management of ECPR patients and much more. Prof Dennis would like to thank all the ambulance paramedics, ED docs, intensive care specialists, surgeons, radiologists, nurses and cardiologists across Sydney. Without their support none of the work would be possible. Also very special thanks to Natalie Kruit and Brian Burns for their immense efforts to bring ECPR to Sydney. Blender Trial - Conservative or liberal oxygen targets in patients on venoarterial extracorporeal membrane oxygenation | Intensive Care Medicine CO2 Drop in VA ECMO - ELSO Registry - Critical Care Medicine

  • Sep 8, 2024 · 21 min

    91 – Stay and Play to Shock, Shock, Go!!

    Should we keep cardiac arrest patients on the scene when we have the ability to put them on ECMO in the hospital? That is the question we tackle this month on EDECMO. Brian Grunau and the great crew from Prague published a study looking at the Hyperinvasive trial data. They make some profound observations about the benefits of ECPR and some data supporting transporting patients early in functional ECPR systems. Saul Levine and Jonathan Goldstone from the SDRC join the podcast this month to give their insight into the formation of ECPR receiving centers as well as the paper.

  • May 2, 2024 · 59 min

    90 – ECMO in Trauma with Dr. Powell & Dr. O’Connor

    In this episode of the ED ECMO Podcast, hosts Zack Shinar and Jon Marinaro interview Dr. Powell & Dr. O'Connor from Baltimore Shock Trauma, exploring ECMO's critical role in trauma care and its impact on patient outcomes. They discuss patient selection criteria for ECMO, managing hemorrhage and anticoagulation considerations, choosing between veno-arterial and veno-venous ECMO, practical insights on vascular access, and strategies for team coordination during ECMO emergencies. This discussion is essential for trauma surgeons, emergency physicians, critical care teams, perfusionists, and anyone involved in trauma care or ECMO deployment.

  • Apr 4, 2024 · 40 min

    89 – What a Medical Student Should Know: Part 1

    With the growing prevalence of ECPR, it is now more important than ever for all individuals in the medical community to understand what ECMO is, not just those providers who are directly involved with its use. In this new podcast series, Zack Shinar and Jon Marinaro help Nathaniel Dennis-Benford, a first-year medical student, explore what a medical student should know about ECMO and ECPR. In this first episode of the series, we start from the basics: what is "cardiac arrest", how is it traditionally managed, and finally what even is ECMO?

  • Jan 13, 2024 · 53 min

    88 – ECMO Billing with John Mehall

    If you are running or starting a US ECMO program, this episode is a must listen. John Mehall from Innovative ECMO Concepts goes through the financial aspects of ECMO care. He covers everything from hospital charges to physician reimbursement to areas where hospitals commonly fail. We all know that you cannot have a successful ECMO program unless you have sufficient funding to keep it going. Jon Marinaro, Zack Shinar, and an entire audience of Reanimate 9 attendees join the episode to ask questions and give their own insight. Web Pricer (cms.gov) - your hospital weight. Times it by DRG to get your hospital ECMO compensation.

  • Nov 3, 2023 · 25 min

    87 – Pearls From Prague and San Diego Resus Consortium with Saul Levine

    This month Zack gives some pearls from his travels to Prague for Jan Behlolavek's ECPR school, Poland to meet with Marek Dabrowski, and ELSO with the entire crew. Zack also interviews Saul Levine for the first of what may be a recurring conversation about the San Diego Resuscitation Consortium. His efforts along with Kristi Koenig, Shawn Evans, Todd Baumbacher, and many others have paved the way for an OHCA ECPR protocol that may change more than just San Diego cardiac care. Listen to Saul explain how the first 3 months of this process has expanded the minds of what cardiac arrest care can look like.

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