Zero Click Marketing

Amanda Natividad

Zero Click Marketing is a marketing strategy podcast about content marketing, audience research, and how brands grow when clicks matter less. Hosted by Amanda Natividad, Chief Evangelist at SparkToro, the show explores how marketers reach audiences, build influence, and earn attention in a zero-click internet. New to the show? Start with Episode 2: What Zero Click Marketing Actually Is.

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28 episodes
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Episodes28

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April 2 · 11 min
ZCM Field Notes: Search Is Now an Evidence Game (Ugh, Thanks, AI)
Today I'm sharing my notes on recent news/research in the worlds of AI and Google Search. I'm breaking down 3 key pieces: Ross Simmonds of Foundation Inc shows how Reddit influences buyer discovery earlier than many marketers realize. Cyrus Shepard of Zyppy Signal argues that clicks still matter — not as a vanity metric, but as a signal of relevance and satisfaction. Wil Reynolds of Seer Interactive offers a brutal real-world reminder that if you don’t publish defensible facts about your brand, AI may fill in the gaps with whatever scraps it can find. If you want a more polished version of this episode along with a spiffy graph, read my blog post. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 00:27 Why these three studies belong together 01:05 Ross Simmonds on Reddit’s growing role in SaaS search 03:05 Cyrus Shepard on why clicks still matter 04:18 Zero-click does not mean clicks stopped mattering 06:10 Wil Reynolds on AI surfacing an old negative review 07:26 Why “the truth is out there” is not enough if it isn’t published 09:08 What marketers should do now Big thank you to my launch sponsor, SparkToro, the makers of fine audience research software. Rand Fishkin/SparkToro did the research that also supports the ideas in this episode. ZCM Field Notes are short reactions to news or observations of what’s happening in the field. Learn more: zeroclickmarketing.co Connect with Amanda Natividad (@amandanat): LinkedIn | Substack | Instagram | Threads
March 31 · 10 min
The Difference Between Fine and Good
A lot of marketers confuse polished with effective. Or they confuse consistency with substance. But neither one guarantees the work is actually good. In this episode, I make the case for a higher bar: usefulness. In a zero-click world, your content has to stand on its own. So before you worry about making it prettier or posting more often, ask whether the idea is actually strong enough to deserve attention. New here? Start with Episode 2: What Zero Click Marketing Actually Is Join us next week — I’ll break down why marketers overvalue what’s easiest to count. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 00:37 The tension between polish and volume 01:24 Why polish can signal care but not guarantee value 02:02 Why volume can create momentum but still say very little 02:38 The real bar: usefulness 03:15 Respecting your audience by assuming they’re smart 04:54 A simple test: strip away the design and ask whether the idea still holds up 05:20 What Amazon’s memo culture gets right 06:30 What to do when the idea itself is the problem 07:01 Three signs a piece of content is ready to publish 09:28 The hierarchy of useful marketing content 11:03 Why this matters even more in a zero-click world 11:46 The question to ask before you publish 12:15 Next week: why marketers overvalue what’s easiest to count Learn more: zeroclickmarketing.co Connect with Amanda Natividad (@amandanat): LinkedIn | Substack | Instagram | Threads Produced in partnership with Share Your Genius www.shareyourgenius.com
March 24 · 28 min
From Old-School SEO to Zero Click Marketing (with Brendan Hufford)
My buddy Brendan Hufford drops by! We talk about his journey from old-school SEO to zero-click marketing. We cover the early days of SEO, the content habits that helped him build a reputation, and why he stopped trying to win by playing the obvious game. We also get into why zero-click marketing works, why it was happening long before it had a name, and why attribution gets messy fast in B2B. Brendan shares how he thinks about buyer journeys, self-reported attribution, becoming your audience’s favorite, and the simplest way to start measuring zero-click impact today. This was a fun one because Brendan brings both the receipts and the realism. If you’ve ever struggled to explain marketing impact beyond first-click or last-click attribution, this episode is for you. 00:00 Intro 00:15 Brendan’s early path from teaching and side hustles into SEO 02:03 The SEO era when useful, original content started to matter more 04:54 The “100 Days of SEO” project and building a body of work in public 07:56 From SEO specialist to audience-first marketer 09:36 Why Brendan had been doing zero click marketing before it had a name 10:17 Why “zero click marketing” works as a phrase — and why naming matters 11:56 Rand’s earlier search for a term for “marketing to sources of influence” 13:14 Why zero-click marketing is effective but hard to sell internally 14:38 The rise and limits of software-based attribution 16:06 How Brendan talks to leaders about marketing impact beyond hard attribution 19:10 Why people buy when they’re ready — and why attribution gets messy 23:10 My take: make it easy for people to choose you when they’re ready 23:35 “Don’t be the best. Be their favorite.” 25:25 Brendan’s zero-click ask: follow his work and learn along the way 27:08 Brendan’s practical advice for getting started with zero-click measurement 28:30 Outro This episode was edited by Share Your Genius (shareyourgenius.com) Connect with Brendan Hufford and check out his work: LinkedIn | GrowthSprints.co for B2B SaaS growth | BrendanHufford.com for his personal site Learn more: zeroclickmarketing.co Connect with Amanda Natividad (@amandanat): LinkedIn | Substack | Instagram | Threads
March 19 · 11 min
Where Zero Click Marketing Happens
Once you understand the concept of Zero Click Marketing, the next question is obvious: Where should you actually be doing this? In this episode, I break down the four environments where Zero Click Marketing thrives — the places on the internet where influence happens before someone ever clicks a link. From social feeds to AI answers, these platforms reward content that delivers value natively. If you understand where ZCM happens, you can create content that builds trust, recognition, and demand — even when you can’t track the click. I also share three real-world examples of Zero Click Marketing in action, including a fascinating product launch from Seattle Ultrasonics that shows how a single piece of content can explain — and sell — an entirely new category. New here? Start with Episode 2: What Zero Click Marketing Actually Is. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro and orientation 01:00 Where ZCM generally works best 01:30 The four environments where ZCM specifically works best 05:25 The pattern of ZCM 05:55 3 case studies of ZCM in the wild 06:01 ZCM when you've created a totally new category 07:56 ZCM in a highly-competitive space 09:12 ZCM with a core idea and remixing across channels/formats 10:33 Next week: Brendan Hufford tells his firsthand experience with ZCM! Learn more: zeroclickmarketing.co Connect with Amanda Natividad (@amandanat): LinkedIn | Substack | Instagram | Threads
March 16 · 7 min
ZCM Field Notes: Why LinkedIn Has Two Algorithms (And Why That Matters)
ZCM Field Notes are short reactions to news or observations of what’s happening in the field. Today, we're talking about the LinkedIn algorithm — because Christopher S. Penn just published an unofficial guide on how LinkedIn's algorithm works right now — and I have some quick notes and a "party" analogy I want to share. Subscribe to Christopher's Almost Timely newsletter on Substack for lots more on AI, data science, and marketing. And download his report and read it yourself! :) IMO, some of the best pages to read in the 150-page report: pg. 19-29: great high-level explainer of how LinkedIn works pg. 91-94: addresses the things you/your brand could likely improve Thank you to my launch sponsor, SparkToro, the makers of fine audience research software. This show wouldn't be possible without 'em! Oh also, I tried to find when I posted something about social media being a party, and I couldn't find it, but I did find this awesome blog post from Grace at Demand Curve where she explains how I built my Twitter following and she includes my party analogy. Learn more: zeroclickmarketing.co Connect with Amanda Natividad (@amandanat): LinkedIn | Substack | Instagram | Threads
March 12 · 35 min
Tell Your Execs: AI Rankings Are BS (with Rand Fishkin)
You know the zero click problem is real. But how do you get your CEO or CMO on board — and how do you prove it's working once they are? In this episode, I chat with Rand Fishkin to talk measurement frameworks, his new AI visibility research, and why correlation (not causation) is the name of the game. Guest: Rand Fishkin, Co-founder and CEO of SparkToro Key takeaway: Zero Click Marketing is not about giving up on sales or clicks. It’s about accepting that influence often happens before the click — and measuring that influence more honestly. Timestamps: 00:00 "All the things that happen in a zero click environment will eventually lead to the same thing that clicks led to" 01:13 What do you tell an executive who believes in zero click but doesn't know what to do next? 04:20 How to start thinking about measurement when there's no single dashboard to point to 07:41 The double standard: executives are comfortable with fuzzy measurement for TV and display ads, but demand perfect attribution for content, influencers, and PR 11:02 Where your competitors refuse to invest leaves more room for you 14:07 AI hype as a Trojan horse to convince skeptics: if you believe AI is the future, what's the logical conclusion of AI summarizing content? 17:22 AI as both the cause of and a mental model for zero click 19:14 Rand and Gumshoe's AI visibility research: Rand noticed AI gives different answers to the same prompt every time, which made him skeptical of the entire AI rank-tracking industry 24:12 The big finding: you'd need ~1,000 prompts to get the same ranked answer — rank tracking is unreliable. But brand visibility percentage is real. 29:08 AI visibility as a trackable indicator for zero click marketing success 33:36 Myth busting: zero click marketing ≠ zero sales, and it's not just a Google problem — it's every platform This episode is brought to you by SparkToro — the audience research tool that helps you find where your audience spends time, what they read, watch, and listen to, and who influences them. Learn more at sparktoro.com. And be sure to check out Gumshoe.ai for search and AI visibility. Edited by Share Your Genius (shareyourgenius.com) Learn more about Zero Click Marketing and Amanda Natividad: zeroclickmarketing.co amandanat.com Amanda's LinkedIn and Instagram
March 10 · 14 min
What Zero Click Marketing Actually Is
I (Amanda Natividad) define Zero Click Marketing, share a simple mental model (the ZCM Ladder), and give you a mini playbook you can use this week. What you’ll learn: What Zero Click Marketing is (and what it isn’t) The ZCM Ladder: Seen → Understood → Remembered → Preferred → Sought out The scoreboard: what to measure when clicks aren’t the whole story 3 moves to start doing ZCM this week (without burning out) And here's your free ZCM one-pager! Timestamps: 00:00 Zero-click isn’t anti-click. It’s pro-reality. 01:20 The definition (and why it’s not “no clicks”) 03:10 What ZCM is not: “ignore your website,” “post more,” “just brand vibes” 07:10 The ZCM Ladder: Seen → Understood → Remembered → Preferred → Sought out 10:30 Why “remembered” matters in B2B (buyers do most deciding without vendors) 13:40 The scoreboard: leading indicators vs. lagging indicators 16:20 Mini playbook: 3 moves you can try this week This episode is brought to you by SparkToro — the audience research tool that helps you find where your audience spends time, what they read, watch, and listen to, and who influences them. Learn more at sparktoro.com. This episode was edited by Share Your Genius (shareyourgenius.com) Learn more about Zero Click Marketing and Amanda Natividad: zeroclickmarketing.co amandanat.com Follow @amandanat on LinkedIn and Instagram
March 10 · 13 min
The Clicks Lie
If clicks are your primary success metric, you're probably undercounting what's working — and over-rewarding what isn't. In the debut episode of Zero Click Marketing, I (Amanda Natividad) make the case that the click-based funnel isn't just outdated, it's actively misleading. And the cost isn't just bad measurement — it's bad decisions. In this episode: Why the click-based funnel made sense for a while — and exactly when it broke How Google, Instagram, LinkedIn, TikTok, and X all quietly started hoarding traffic What "dark social" is, and why it's a bigger deal than most teams realize Why AI tools like ChatGPT are the next frontier of zero-click — and what that means for your brand The 95/5 rule: why optimizing for conversions means ignoring 80% of your future buyers Amanda's own story: how she grew from 1,000 to 100,000+ followers without ever spending a dime Key insight from this episode: "When you stop optimizing for the click and start optimizing for genuine value in the platform, you end up with better clicks — more intentional ones from people who actually want to be there." This episode is brought to you by SparkToro — the audience research tool that helps you find where your audience spends time, what they read, watch, and listen to, and who influences them. Learn more at sparktoro.com. This episode was edited by Share Your Genius (shareyourgenius.com) Learn more about Zero Click Marketing and Amanda Natividad: zeroclickmarketing.co amandanat.com Follow @amandanat on LinkedIn and Instagram