Where Do We Go From Here?

Empathy in Action: Interview with Ciji Wagner founder of Louder Than Silence

Content note: This episode discusses sexual trauma, religious trauma, sexual violence, and spiritual abuse. Show Notes: Host EDJ speaks with Ciji Wagner, survivor and founder of Louder Than Silence, about the lasting effects of evangelical purity culture, sexual violence, and religious trauma. Ciji shares how messages about sexuality, responsibility, and silence shaped her understanding of consent, relationships, and self-blame, and why recognizing our survival responses can be an important step toward healing. Wagner introduces Louder Than Silence, an organization offering no-cost, long-term, trauma-specific peer support and resources for survivors. She discusses sexual violence, harassment, intimate partner violence, and the ways power imbalances can shape abusive experiences. The conversation also explores PTSD, the window of tolerance, and the fight, flight, freeze, and fawn responses—reminding us that these are survival strategies, not character flaws. Ciji shares her personal experience with EMDR therapy, using a bookshelf metaphor to describe how traumatic memories can be processed and placed in context. She also explains how Louder Than Silence brings together peer mentors and partner therapists to support survivors. How can we show up for someone who shares a painful experience? Ciji co-authored a book about empathy and offers a practical framework she calls the three Ps: peacefulness, presence, and the puzzle approach. Rather than centering our own discomfort, rushing to fix things, or searching for the perfect words, we can regulate our responses, remain present, and let survivors guide the support they need. From respecting someone's choices to offering consistent, tangible care, this episode invites us to rethink what healing, solidarity, and trauma-informed support can look like. Ciji Wagner Bio Ciji Wagner is a survivor and co-founder of Louder Than Silence, an organization providing trauma-specific peer support and resources for survivors. Drawing on her lived experience, she helps create spaces where survivors can find community, understanding, and support without judgment. Through her work, Wagner challenges the harmful messages of purity culture and advocates for compassionate, trauma-informed approaches to healing. Links: www.louderthansilence.org www.cijiwagner.com Empathy Impact

God is a Black Woman: Interview with Dr. Christena Cleveland

What happens when we begin to question the image of God we've been taught to worship? In this episode, Dr. Christena Cleveland joins us to explore the concept that God is a Black Woman with the power to challenge white, male-centered images of the divine. Drawing on history, spirituality, and her own journey beyond traditional Christian beliefs, Dr. Christena unpacks this inclusive vision of God as a sacred figure of resistance, liberation, and nourishment. We discuss how white patriarchal religion shapes our understanding of God, bodies, and identity, and how God as a Black Woman or Black Madonna offers an alternative vision of the sacred—one that embraces Black femininity, authenticity, and the fullness of our humanity. We also explore the connections between purity culture, sexuality, and body sovereignty, asking what it means to reclaim our bodies and trust our own intuition after religious conditioning. Dr. Christena shares the spiritual significance of pilgrimages to Black Madonna sites and explains how death and rebirth can become part of our journey toward liberation. From embracing emotions like anger to reconnecting with our bodies and challenging oppressive systems, this conversation offers practical ways to embody resistance, wholeness, and spiritual freedom. Whether you're deconstructing your faith, reimagining your relationship with the divine, or seeking a more embodied and liberating spirituality, this episode invites you to discover a sacredness that makes room for all of who you are. Guest Bio: Dr. Christena Cleveland Dr. Christena Cleveland is a social psychologist, public theologian, author, and activist whose work weaves together Black liberation and the Divine Feminine. Through her exploration of the Black Madonna, she guides people of all races and genders toward freedom, wholeness, and embodied justice. She founded the Black Madonna Freedom School, which helps people uproot white patriarchal religious conditioning and cultivate intersectional Divine Feminine wisdom. Her books, God is a Black Woman and The Black Madonna: Icon of Resistance & Nourisher of Souls, explore how the Black Feminine Divine has protected, empowered, and nourished people across cultures and throughout history. An award-winning researcher and former professor at Duke University's Divinity School, Christena lives in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Learn more about her work at christenacleveland.com. Relevant links: Dr. Cleveland's Patreon learning community: https://www.patreon.com/cscleve Dr. Cleveland's website: https://www.christenacleveland.com/ The Black Madonna Freedom School's website: https://www.blackmadonnaschool.com/ Upcoming virtual retreat on Nov. 7th: https://christenacleveland.com/bmretreat For listeners in NYC who may want to attend her author talk on Nov 4th: https://www.cafeconlibrosbk.com/event-info/author-talk-the-black-madonna-with-dr-christena-cleveland

No Hard Feelings Chat About Consent

*Content warning, this episode takes on the complex topic of consent in the context of recent viral content, like Dr. Joanna and James Howe's comments "[we] don't do consent … we do marriage," The Netflix Docuseries "The Death of the Pastor's Wife," and the Cornell Seven. We talk about marital rape, consent education, sexual agency, purity culture and much more. The last twenty minutes of this episode is exclusive to Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/wheredowegopod From viral claims about doing marriage rather than consent, to the history of marital rape laws, we examine how cultural and religious messages about sex can reinforce male entitlement, female duty, and the idea that commitment overrides bodily autonomy. We also discuss the role of pornography and media in shaping sexual expectations, and why healthy sexual relationships require ongoing consent, communication, trust, and attunement. We further explore what marriage has to do with consent, unpacking the harmful idea that marriage creates an automatic sexual obligation, exploring how purity culture and religious teachings can distort our understanding of consent, sexuality, and healthy relationships. We discuss how to educate children and teens to construct their own boundaries and respect the boundaries of others. We explore practical ways to teach bodily agency from an early age, model consent in everyday interactions, and have open, age-appropriate conversations about sex and relationships. We also consider how churches and faith communities can challenge harmful teachings and help foster a culture of consent, mutual respect, and sexual well-being. In this episode, we discuss: Consent versus sexual obligation in marriage How purity culture distorts our understanding of sex, consent, and gender roles Marital rape laws and changing societal attitudes toward sexual violence The influence of pornography and media on sexual expectations Why consent must be ongoing, enthusiastic, and freely given Bodily agency, boundaries, and consent education for children and teens Practical parenting strategies for modeling consent and respecting boundaries The importance of trust, communication, and attunement in sexual relationships How religious teachings and hierarchical power structures can undermine consent The role of churches and faith communities in promoting healthy sexuality and preventing sexual violence Key takeaways: Marriage is not blanket consent. Commitment never removes a person's right to say no. Consent is ongoing. It can be withdrawn at any time, including within marriage or an established relationship. Purity culture can cause lasting harm. Teachings about male entitlement, female sexual duty, and sexual shame can leave people unprepared for healthy relationships. Consent education starts in childhood. Teaching children that their bodies belong to them helps establish the foundations of bodily autonomy and respect. Healthy relationships require more than a yes. Trust, communication, mutual respect, and attunement help partners recognize and respond to one another's needs and boundaries. Faith communities can make a difference. Churches can challenge harmful sexual teachings and make consent a central part of conversations about love, relationships, and human dignity. Consent Can't Wait: www.consent.gov.au particularly https://www.consent.gov.au/infographic

Revisiting Promising Young Woman after the Cornell 7

Revisiting Promising Young Woman after the Cornell 7 "We know instinctively within us there's an enormous cost to telling the truth." — Devi In light of Jane Doe's allegations involving the Cornell Seven and the renewed conversation about consent, intoxication and accountability, Jessica returns to Where Do We Go From Here? to revisit a discussion she and Devi recorded in 2021. Sitting together on Jessica's couch, they watched Promising Young Woman and recorded their reactions immediately afterwards. Their conversation explores how the film exposes sexual entitlement, victim-blaming and the people and institutions that enable harm. Through Cassie's confrontations with a former friend, a university dean, a lawyer and the man who assaulted her best friend, Jessica and Devi consider: Men who offer to "help" an apparently intoxicated woman, then exploit her vulnerability. How women's drinking and sexual histories become excuses to dismiss their experiences. Whose reputation and future institutions choose to protect. The difference between appearing to be a "nice guy" and taking responsibility. The personal cost of speaking up and seeking justice. This re-release includes a new introduction and a 2026 postscript from Jessica. She reflects on institutional responsibility, the anger these conversations evoke, and why acknowledging harm never entitles someone to forgiveness or reconciliation. She also considers the work still ahead, alongside permission to take a break when it becomes overwhelming. Content note: Discussion of rape, sexual assault, victim-blaming, suicide and violence against women. This episode contains full spoilers, including the film's ending. We recommend watching the film before listening. Film: Promising Young Woman (2020) on IMDb

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Queerly Beloved: Interview with Ann Russo Founder of AMR Therapy

In this interview with Ann Russo, Ann shares her experience growing up in a queer household, exploring Christian theology, and working in religious trauma therapy. We discuss how religious shame and purity culture shape sexuality and self-worth, why autonomy, agency and boundaries matter in healing, and how sex positivity and communication support healthy relationships. We further discuss affirming religious spaces, Evangelical deconstruction, and Ann's upcoming book about religious trauma. Bio: Ann Russo, LCSW, is the founder and Clinical Director of AMR Therapy, a California-based practice providing inclusive, trauma-informed mental health care. She is dedicated to identity-affirming, culturally responsive therapy that honors clients' lived experiences, with a particular focus on LGBTQ+ and BIPOC communities and people exploring non-traditional relationships and identities. Through AMR Therapy, Ann leads a team supporting individuals, couples, families, and groups in a welcoming space where everyone can feel understood and accepted. Links: www.amrtherapy.com www.annrusso.org Key Topics Growing up in a queer household outside purity culture Christianity, faith deconstruction, and religious trauma The impact of religious shame on sexuality and self-worth Autonomy, boundaries, and healing Sex positivity and healthy relationships Religious trauma therapy and queer-affirming faith communities

The Wonderfully Weird History and Science of Masturbation: Interview with Dr. Eric Sprankle

In this episode, Dr. Eric Sprankle explores the history, science, and cultural narratives surrounding masturbation. We unpack myths about Onania (or Onanism), the belief that Kellogg's cornflakes and Graham crackers were invented as masturbation deterrents, Dhat syndrome, and other attempts to vilify masturbation and even the loss of semen. We also examine how misinformation about semen, orgasm, vibrators, and sexual behavior continues to circulate through internet culture and the wellness industry. From masturbation in infancy and childhood to sexuality in older adulthood, we discuss how masturbation fits into human sexual development—and the importance of understanding the difference between private and public behavior. The conversation also explores masturbation in the context of relationships, mental health, aging, compulsivity, and moral incongruence. Along the way, we consider what distinguishes healthy sexual behavior from problematic or compulsive behavior and how comprehensive sex education can help people develop healthier, more informed relationships with their bodies and sexuality. Bio: Dr. Eric Sprankle is a professor of clinical psychology at Minnesota State University, Mankato, a licensed clinical psychologist, and an AASECT-certified sex therapist. He specializes in sexuality and sexual health and is affiliated with the Minnesota Sexual Health Institute. When he's not teaching, researching, or defending himself against accusations of devil worship and witchcraft, Eric enjoys time with his wife and their three cats. In This Episode, We Explore The history of masturbation and the origins of common myths What science tells us about masturbation and sexual development Masturbation throughout the lifespan, from fetal development and childhood to older adulthood The state of sex education in the United States and the need for comprehensive education How purity culture and religious beliefs have shaped attitudes toward masturbation The role of pseudoscience in creating fears about masturbation and sexual health Historical attitudes toward vibrators, sex toys, and female orgasm Cultural beliefs about semen and masturbation in different parts of the world Debates surrounding masturbation in Jewish and Christian traditions How internet culture and the wellness industry perpetuate sexual-health misinformation Moral incongruence, shame, and their potential effects on mental health Masturbation, relationship satisfaction, conflict, and communication The difference between addiction and compulsive sexual behavior Healthy uses of masturbation, including self-soothing and stress relief How parents and educators can talk with children about masturbation in developmentally appropriate ways

No Hard Feelings Chat: What Do We Do With Our Christian Playlist Post-Deconstruction?

What happens to the songs that once helped shape our faith when our understanding of faith changes? In this episode, we explore the complicated relationship between worship music, deconstruction, theology, and cultural politics. We talk about why certain songs can carry enormous emotional weight—and why a song that once felt sacred can later feel painful, complicated, or even impossible to sing. Together, we consider what it means to keep listening to music created by artists or churches whose theology, politics, or actions have changed how we understand their work. We wrestle with questions about royalties, institutional support, song selection, and the ethics of participating in worship connected to communities with which we may no longer agree. We touch on artists and bands like Chris Tomlin, Amy Grant, Hillsong, DC Talk, Crowder, Switchfoot, Kari Jobe, Bethel and Elevation worship. But this conversation isn't only about deciding which songs to keep or leave behind. It's also about reclaiming music and the stories attached to it. A song can belong to more than the institution or artist who created it. It can become part of our own histories of grief, healing, faith, doubt, community, and transformation. We talk about Michael Passon's reclaiming of "Testify to Love" for the queer Christian community and explore particular ways worship music intersects with queer identity and broader cultural and political shifts. Ultimately, this episode makes space for the complexity of loving a song, questioning its origins, grieving what it once represented, and discovering what it might mean now. Mackenzie Morgon Holloway's post: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/184FPj7RoF/ Worship Documentary: https://www.safeforthewholefamilyfilm.com Rick Pidcock's book: https://a.co/d/05IFYHK8 Share your opinions and questions about this ongoing conversation: www.patreon.com/wheredowegopod.

Faith and Feminism: Interview with Meghan Tschanz

In this episode, we sit down with Meghan Tschanz to explore her journey from evangelical purity culture and missionary work to faith deconstruction, feminist theology, and a more expansive understanding of Christianity. Meghan shares how her experiences growing up in purity culture shaped her understanding of women, sexuality, and faith—and how questioning those teachings eventually led her to examine the ways patriarchy, culture, colonialism, and power influence biblical interpretation and Christian practice. We talk about her work with marginalized women in mission contexts, including the process of confronting the harmful assumptions and systems sometimes embedded in missionary work. We grapple with female genital mutilation, as well as myths around "virginity" and they hymen. The conversation explores the role of women in Christianity, feminist approaches to biblical studies, and Meghan's evolving understanding of salvation. Rather than seeing salvation solely as something that happens after death, she describes salvation as something that we work out here and now—through liberation, justice, healing, and living in relationship with one another. This is a conversation about questioning what we've been taught, examining the cultural assumptions behind our faith, and finding new ways to imagine Christianity beyond patriarchal and restrictive interpretations. Meghan's Bio: Meghan Tschanz is a writer, speaker, former missionary, and Christian feminist passionate about gender equality, justice, and reimagining the role of feminism within the Christian faith. Her experiences working with women who had experienced trafficking, exploitation, and violence around the world challenged her understanding of faith and led her to confront the ways patriarchal beliefs can contribute to injustice. She is the host of the Faith and Feminism podcast, which explores the intersection of Christianity, feminism, justice, and the experiences of women, with the goal of reclaiming an inclusive, intersectional feminism within the Christian church. She is also the author of Women Rising: Learning to Listen, Reclaiming Our Voice, a memoir and call to action that chronicles her journey of questioning the gender roles she was taught in her evangelical upbringing and finding her voice as a Christian feminist. Through her writing and podcast, Meghan encourages Christians to challenge systems of inequality, listen to women's stories, and pursue a faith rooted in justice and gender equality. In This Episode, We Explore: The lasting impact of evangelical purity culture on women Meghan's journey of faith deconstruction and reconstruction How missionary work shaped—and challenged—her understanding of Christianity Marginalized women, mission work, and confronting white saviorism The influence of colonialism and culture on Christian missions Myths surrounding virginity and the hymen—and what medical science actually tells us Sexuality, pleasure, abstinence, and the legacy of purity culture How patriarchal interpretations of scripture have shaped the role of women in Christianity Feminist theology, rape in the Bible, and Biblical-women learning to use their intuition Myths Christians believe the Bible teaches Meghan's work in biblical studies and her forthcoming books Why Meghan continues to identify as Christian Rethinking traditional ideas about salvation and understanding salvation as a present, lived experience The future of gender equity and women's leadership in the church

God, Guns and Christian Nationalism

God, Guns and Christian Nationalism In this episode of Where Do We Go From Here, EDJ speaks with Malynda Hale, executive director of The New Evangelicals, about growing up in a progressive African Methodist Episcopal church, encountering conservative evangelicalism for the first time in college, and finding a faith rooted in love, compassion, hope, and justice. Malynda shares how her upbringing shaped her understanding of Christianity and why she never experienced the kind of faith "deconstruction" that many former evangelicals describe. She describes the faith she grew up with as "hope-based" rather than fear-based, contrasting it with the fear-centered Christianity she encountered later in a conservative evangelical environment. A major theme of the conversation is the idea that Christians should not merely talk about the good news but should "be the good news" through the way they live, advocate for others, and engage with their communities. Malynda also discusses purity culture, Christian nationalism, gun culture, social justice advocacy, and The New Evangelicals' (TNE's) shift toward helping people reclaim and redefine their faith. She mentions the three podcasts associated with TNE: Advocacy Hour, The Tim and April Show, and The New Evangelicals Podcast. The conversation further explores Malynda's career as an actress, filmmaker, singer, and songwriter. She shares with the listeners her powerful song God and His Gun, which challenges the intersection of Christian nationalism and gun culture. Watch the video here: https://youtu.be/PszjLfSO8g4?si=zQrJ94MBCAf1PqMr Malynda's acting credits include Bull Street, in which she stars alongside Loretta Devine and Amy Madigan. She will be attending the Martha's Vineyard African American Film Festival where the film, Bull Street, was selected for screening! Watch the trailer here: https://youtu.be/-CmA1z0mwIQ?si=lTWdYbas3qAFcOCw About Malynda Hale Malynda Hale is an actress, filmmaker, singer, songwriter, and social justice advocate. She serves as executive director of The New Evangelicals and creates content focused on faith, justice, advocacy, and contemporary cultural issues. Malynda's work includes: The New Evangelicals Podcast — one-on-one conversations covering theology, history, Christianity, and culture The Tim and April Show — conversations about current events and culture Advocacy Hour — practical conversations with people and organizations doing grassroots advocacy and social justice work TNE Connect — The New Evangelicals' online community, including free resources and courses #WeNeedToTalk — Malynda's Substack, where she writes about faith, justice, and culture

PODCAST UPDATE

EDJ shares a podcast update, setting expectations for the month of September and going forward.

Holistic Therapist for BIPOC Women: Interview with Ingrid Nishimoto

In this episode, Ingrid Nishimoto shares an honest and deeply personal journey through faith, purity culture, religious trauma, health crises, and deconstruction. Drawing from her experience as a Korean American and second-generation immigrant, Ingrid reflects on how family, community, illness, grief, and changing beliefs shaped the way she understood herself, God, and her faith. We explore the lasting impact of purity culture and abstinence messages, including how they can shape our sense of worth, agency, and relationship with our bodies. Ingrid also talks about the health crises that prompted her to question long-held theological beliefs and eventually reconsider ideas about the character of God. A significant part of Ingrid's story is about navigating hereditary cancer risk and grief, and how experiences of uncertainty and loss contributed to her spiritual journey. The conversation turns toward healing and what it can look like to move beyond simply questioning beliefs. Ingrid discusses therapy, EMDR, boundaries, self-compassion, and the process of reclaiming personal agency after religious trauma. Ultimately, this episode is about making space for a faith that is no longer rooted in fear—a journey toward greater freedom, compassion, and a more life-giving understanding of God. Bio: Ingrid Nishimoto is a Korean American, second-generation immigrant whose personal journey has taken her through faith, purity culture, religious deconstruction, health challenges, and healing from religious trauma. Her experiences with hereditary cancer risk, grief, therapy, and EMDR have shaped a deep commitment to agency, self-compassion, and creating space for more life-giving ways of understanding faith. Through her story, Ingrid brings a thoughtful and honest perspective to the complexities of unlearning inherited beliefs while finding greater freedom, wholeness, and grace. Links: Connect with Ingrid on Instagram @ingridnishimototherapy Ingrid's website: https://www.ingridnishimototherapy.com/

No Hard Feelings Chat: What Do We Do With The Bible Post Deconstruction?

What happens when the Bible you once read as a source of certainty becomes a place where you have questions? In this episode, Kristen, Emily, and EDJ explore what it can look like to read Scripture during and after evangelical deconstruction. Together, they unpack questions of biblical inerrancy, translation, authorship, interpretation, historical context, and the ways Scripture has sometimes been weaponized within faith communities. Rather than approaching the Bible through fear, legalism, or the pressure to have all the "right" answers, this conversation explores a different way forward—one grounded in context, curiosity, love, and a willingness to ask honest questions. The conversation also explores Jesus as a lens for interpreting Scripture, the Wesleyan Quadrilateral, the hermeneutic circle, and practical tools for engaging the Bible in a way that can support reconstruction and a more meaningful faith journey. Whether you're questioning what you were taught, rebuilding your relationship with Scripture, or simply looking for a more thoughtful way to read the Bible, this episode invites you to approach the text with curiosity rather than fear. Key Frameworks: Wesleyan Quadrilateral — Scripture, tradition, reason, and experience as four lenses for theological reflection. Hermeneutic Circle — The process of understanding individual biblical passages in light of the larger context and story of Scripture, while also allowing our understanding of those individual passages to deepen and refine our understanding of the larger whole. Resources: Inspired by Rachel Held Evans Better Ways To Read The Bible by Zach Lambert What is the Bible? By Rob Bell What If Jesus Was Serious? By Skye Jethani The Bible Says So by Dan McClellan How the Bible Actually Works by Peter Enns A Systematic Theology of Love by Thomas Jay Oord

Gayer Than Originally Anticipated: Follow-up Interview with Jenna Dewitt - Sapphic, Aromantic, Asexual & Christian

EDJ and Jenna Dewitt sit down for a follow-up conversation about where Jenna has gone and grown since her interview with Jess and Devi in 2021. Jenna shares her journey as an aromantic, asexual, sapphic and celibate Christian, offering a fresh perspective on faith, identity, and belonging. Together, we unpack the often-misunderstood experiences of aromantic and asexual people, challenge assumptions shaped by purity culture, and explore what it means to build truly inclusive faith communities. Jenna explains the differences between aromantic and asexual identities, the meaning and history of the term sapphic, and why representation matters for people whose experiences are often overlooked—even within LGBTQIA+ spaces. She also reflects on her personal journey through evangelical Christianity, deconstruction, and discovering a more expansive, justice-centered faith. Whether you're navigating your own spiritual journey, queer identity, supporting LGBTQIA+ loved ones, or simply curious about the intersection of faith and sexual identity, this conversation offers wisdom, compassion, and hope for a more inclusive future. In This Episode What aromantic and asexual identities really mean—and the myths that surround them Why the term sapphic is broader than many people realize Jenna's story of faith, deconstruction, and embracing her identity Celibacy as a gift of freedom rather than a requirement How purity culture shapes our understanding of love, relationships, and sexuality Deconstruction can become a pathway to deeper, more authentic spirituality and self-acceptance Why many churches struggle to include LGBTQIA+ people—and what can change The importance of affirming community, belonging, and authentic faith Collective liberation reminds us that justice and love are inseparable. The future of progressive Christianity & practical ways churches and individuals can create more welcoming spaces Connect with Jenna: www.InvisibleCakeSociety.com https://substack.com/@jennadewitt https://www.instagram.com/jennadewitt/

RomCom Recap: Down With Love

In this episode, EDJ, Amy and Thea recap the 2003 romantic comedy Down with Love, a colorful homage to the glamorous screwball comedies of the early 1960s. Beneath its playful style, witty dialogue, and impeccable costumes lies a fascinating conversation about gender, feminism, workplace dynamics, and the cultural expectations of its era. We explore whether the film succeeds as both a loving parody and a meaningful social critique, discussing where its satire lands—and where it falls short by today's standards. In This Episode The performances, chemistry, costumes, and visual style that make the film memorable. The film's take on feminism, gender expectations, and the battle of the sexes. Romance, consent, and power dynamics in interpersonal relationships. How misogyny, homophobia, and outdated stereotypes are presented—and whether the movie critiques or reinforces them. Whether the movie's satire still resonates with fourth wave feminist audiences since this movie was made during the third wave of feminism How we'd update Down with Love perhaps in a 1980s context with a #metoo feminist lens projection of fourth wave feminism

Escaping Purity Culture with Mattie Jo Cowert

What happens when everything you've been taught about faith, sex, and identity no longer makes sense? In this episode, Mattie Jo Cowsert shares her powerful journey from growing up in conservative evangelical culture to questioning the beliefs that shaped her understanding of God, relationships, and herself. Raised in the heart of the Bible Belt, Mattie opens up about the lasting effects of purity culture, the emotional toll of shame-based theology, and what it looked like to rebuild her worldview after leaving fundamentalist Christianity. Together, we explore how religious messaging impacts self-worth, why deconstructing faith can feel both terrifying and liberating, and how curiosity, critical thinking, and healthy relationships helped Mattie reclaim her sexuality and personal agency. Rather than offering easy answers, this conversation invites listeners to think deeply about identity, spirituality, agency, and what it means to build a life rooted in authenticity instead of fear. Whether you're navigating your own faith deconstruction, recovering from purity culture, or simply interested in conversations about religion, sexuality, and personal growth, this episode offers honesty, compassion, and practical insight. Discussion Points: Mattie's evangelical upbringing in Missouri Purity culture affects far more than sex and reaches beyond the church community The hidden emotional cost of shame-based religious teaching Leaving certainty behind What faith deconstruction looked like for Mattie Jo Dating during deconstruction Rediscovering sexuality with intention and safety after evangelicalism Separating fear from personal values Building healthy relationships without religious expectations Marriage, commitment, and modern relationships Reinterpreting scripture About Mattie Jo Cowsert Mattie Jo Cowsert is a New York City–based actor, author, and storyteller whose work explores the intersection of evangelical culture, sexuality, identity, and personal freedom. Raised in a multigenerational evangelical family in Branson, Missouri, she began publicly documenting her journey out of Christian fundamentalism through her blog, God, Sex & Rich People. Her memoir, God, Sex, and Rich People: A Recovering Evangelical Testimony, expands on that story, examining purity culture, faith deconstruction, and the process of rebuilding a life rooted in authenticity. Mattie also develops film and television projects inspired by her work and advocates for thoughtful conversations around religion, sexuality, and healing. Resources & Links God, Sex, and Rich People: A Recovering Evangelical Testimony by Mattie Jo Cowsert Mattie Jo Cowsert's website: https://www.mattiejocowsert.com/ Mattie Jo Cowsert on Instagram @mattiejocowsert Purity Culture Recovery Guide by Erica Smith

No Hard Feelings: David, Bathsheba, and What We Do With Good Men Who Do Bad Things

A No Hard Feelings Chat with Jessica, Emily and Kristen Content note: This episode includes discussion of sexual assault, rape, coercion, abuse of power, trauma responses, victim-blaming, and spiritual harm. The story of David and Bathsheba is often taught as a cautionary tale about lust, adultery, and David's eventual repentance. But what changes when we read it through questions of consent, power, silence, and coercion? In this episode of No Hard Feelings, Jessica steps into the host seat with Emily and Kristen to explore the story of David and Bathsheba in 2 Samuel 11 and 12. Together, they wrestle with whether David's actions can rightly be understood as sexual assault, why Bathsheba has so often been cast as a seductress or co-conspirator, and what it means to revisit one of the Bible's most beloved heroes with clearer eyes. The conversation moves beyond the question of whether David committed adultery and asks harder questions about what consent could mean for a woman summoned by a king, in a patriarchal society where women had very little social, political, or bodily autonomy. They also compare Bathsheba's story with Tamar's in 2 Samuel 13, including the different language used in the two passages, the role of women's voices in the narrative, and why the absence of visible resistance does not establish consent. Finally, Jessica, Emily and Kristen sit with the difficult question: if David did sexually assault Bathsheba, what do we do with David now? Can we still read his psalms? Can we recognise repentance without minimising harm? Can someone be spiritually significant, write beautiful things, and still be unsafe or deeply destructive in the lives of others? In this episode, we discuss The familiar "David and Bathsheba had an affair" version of the story Bathsheba as a silent figure in a narrative centred on David The cultural and artistic sexualisation of Bathsheba Why the story has often been told through David's desire, guilt, repentance, and restoration The difference between explicit physical force and coercion through overwhelming power Why "she came to him" does not necessarily mean she freely consented Trauma responses including fight, flight, freeze and fawn The contrast between Bathsheba's silence and Tamar's voice in 2 Samuel 13 Whether the absence of a particular Hebrew word settles the question of sexual assault Nathan's parable of the rich man and the ewe lamb Psalm 51, repentance, and the limits of a repentance story centered on the perpetrator Why David does not need to be either sanitized or cancelled What accountability, consequences, and redemption might mean in the story of David A few questions to sit with Why have so many of us been taught to focus on David's repentance rather than Bathsheba's experience? What assumptions do we make when a woman does not visibly resist? What does consent mean when one person holds enormous political, social, and personal power over another? Can a person be gifted, spiritually significant, and still capable of serious harm? What does it mean to read Psalm 51 after taking Bathsheba's experience seriously? How might the church tell stories of repentance without making victims disappear? References and further reading Biblical texts 2 Samuel 11–12 2 Samuel 13 Psalm 51 1 Kings 1–2 Matthew 1:1–6 Scholarship and theological commentary Robert M. Davidson, "Did King David Rape Bathsheba? A Case Study in Narrative Theology." J. L. Andruska, work on David, Bathsheba, Dinah, and the lexical and syntactical case for sexual violation. Sara M. Koenig, "Bathsheba and Preaching in the #MeToo Era." Carmen Joy Imes, writing on David, Bathsheba, power, and consent. David E. Garland and Diana R. Garland, discussion of power, consent, and Bathsheba. Suzanne Scholz, Sacred Witness: Rape in the Hebrew Bible. Caryn Tamber-Rosenau, "Biblical Bathing Beauties and the Manipulation of the Male Gaze." Anne Létourneau, "Bathing Beauty: Concealment of Bathsheba's Rape and Counter-Power in 2 Samuel 11:1–5." Articles and contemporary voices discussed Bonnie Kristian, "The Old Testament Calls Out Cancel Culture," Christianity Today. "Did David Rape Bathsheba?" GotQuestions.org. Clay Jones and Jean E. Jones, "Did David Rape Bathsheba?" Christian Research Institute. John Piper's comments on David and Bathsheba, as reported by Church Leaders. Rachael Denhollander's public comments on David, Bathsheba, power, and sexual violence. Connect with us We would love to hear what this episode stirred up for you, what challenged you, and what questions you are still holding. Follow the podcast wherever you listen, and join the Patreon community for deeper conversations, bonus content, and space to explore the light and shade of deconstruction together. Together, let's keep asking: Where do we go from here?

Conversion Therapy Dropout with Timothy Schraeder Rodriguez

What happens when the faith community that teaches you about love also teaches you to reject a core part of who you are? In this deeply personal and courageous conversation, Timothy Schraeder Rodriguez shares his journey through conversion therapy, evangelical church culture, and the long road toward self-acceptance. Drawing from his memoir, Conversion Therapy Dropout: A Queer Story of Faith & Belonging, Tim reflects on eight years spent trying to change his sexuality in pursuit of acceptance from God, the church, and the people he loved. Together, we explore the lasting effects of purity culture, shame-based theology, and exclusionary church teachings on LGBTQ+ individuals. Tim offers a candid look at his experiences within influential evangelical spaces and discusses the emotional, spiritual, and psychological costs of attempting to suppress one's identity in the name of faith. This conversation is ultimately one of resilience, healing, and hope. Tim shares how he rebuilt a sense of belonging, reimagined his relationship with spirituality, and discovered that authenticity—not conformity—is the path to wholeness. Whether you're navigating questions of faith, sexuality, identity, or healing from religious trauma, this episode offers a compassionate and honest exploration of what it means to belong. About Timothy Schraeder Rodriguez Timothy Schraeder Rodriguez is a writer, speaker, and digital strategist based in New York City. He is the author of Conversion Therapy Dropout: A Queer Story of Faith & Belonging, a memoir chronicling his experiences with conversion therapy, evangelical church culture, and his journey toward self-acceptance. Through his writing and advocacy, Tim helps foster conversations around LGBTQ+ inclusion, mental health, religious trauma, and belonging.

Exploring Fertility Options with Dr. Jaime Knopman

Own Your Fertility In this episode EDJ sits down with fertility Doctor Jaime Knopman to discuss IVF, egg freezing, miscarriage, endometriosis, and the realities of trying to conceive later in life. Dr. Knopman shares why fertility conversations should begin much earlier than most people think, how egg freezing technology has evolved, and why infertility is not just a "women's issue." The conversation also explores IVF for same-sex couples, surrogacy, embryo freezing, and how fertility care changed during the pandemic. This episode is an informative and compassionate look at modern fertility options, reproductive health, and family-building in today's world. Key Points Women are born with all the eggs they will ever have. Fertility begins declining more significantly after age 32, with steeper declines after 35 and 40. Male infertility contributes to roughly one-third of infertility cases. Biochemical miscarriage and the commonality of miscarriage. Endometriosis can affect fertility through inflammation, reduced egg quantity, and physical obstruction. Egg freezing technology has dramatically improved through vitrification (rapid freezing). IVF success rates and misconceptions. IVF today often includes genetic testing of embryos to improve pregnancy outcomes. Surrogacy and reciprocal IVF. Fertility treatment and definitions of infertility are becoming more inclusive for same-sex couples and single parents by choice. Fertility insurance coverage changes. The emotional realities of fertility treatment. How the pandemic changed fertility care. About the Guest Dr. Jaime Knopman is a fertility specialist and co-author of Own Your Fertility. She works with individuals and couples navigating egg freezing, embryo freezing, IVF, surrogacy, and fertility preservation. Podcast Update from EDJ: The host shares a summer podcast schedule update, explaining that with children home during school holidays, episodes will continue on a lighter schedule through the summer months. Planned content includes: One episode of No Hard Feelings One episode of News and Views One RomCom Recap At least one interview episode each month The host also mentions ongoing community conversations in "The Big Debrief" and invites listeners to connect there.

No Hard Feelings Chat: Debunking Myths about Soul Ties and Soulmates

In this month's No Hard Feelings Chat, we unpack the popular concepts of soul ties and soulmates, exploring where these ideas come from, how they've been shaped by culture and faith, and whether they hold up under theological, psychological, and scientific scrutiny. Together, we challenge fear-based narratives that emerged from purity culture, examine the difference between healthy attachment and unhealthy enmeshment, and discuss why healing from past relationships is possible. We also explore the myths surrounding "the one," love at first sight, and the belief that a person's worth is tied to their relationship status. Drawing from psychology, neuroscience, and personal experience, this episode offers a compassionate and nuanced perspective on love, connection, sexuality, and human flourishing. Whether you're single, dating, healing from heartbreak, married, remarried, or simply rethinking what you've been taught about relationships, this conversation invites you to approach love with greater freedom, authenticity, and self-awareness. Key points: What "soul ties" are and where the concept originated The phrase "soul tie" does not appear in the Bible but does appear in purity culture narratives! Biblical passages commonly used to support the idea of soul ties What neuroscience reveals about intimacy, bonding, and brain chemistry Intimacy can create powerful emotional bonds without permanently binding people together Healthy attachment versus enmeshment in relationships A debate around whether sex creates permanent emotional or spiritual bonds The theological idea that God is "all in all" and this bonds human beings "in Christ" The origins and appeal of the soulmate narrative The myth of finding "the one" Love develops over time through trust, commitment, and shared experience—not instant chemistry alone. The sacred value of singleness and personal wholeness How culture, religion, and media shape our expectations of romance Healing from toxic relationships, shame, and harmful beliefs Building relationships rooted in authenticity, boundaries, and mutual growth Continue the conversation on Patreon: www.patreon.com/wheredowegopod

Bonus Episode: Is the Fire of Hell the Fire of God's Love

What if hell has been misunderstood? In this thought-provoking episode, we unpack one of Christianity's most debated doctrines and explore a radically different perspective on judgment, punishment, and the nature of God. Through personal stories of faith deconstruction, biblical exegesis, and theological reflection, EDJ challenges the traditional ideas of eternal conscious torment and eternal separation from God, examining whether the language of "fire" in scripture points more toward refinement and restoration than endless punishment. The discourse dives into the tension between fear-based theology and unconditional love, asking whether reconciliation—not separation—is ultimately at the heart of the gospel. Along the way, we explore how concepts like discipline, correction, and salvation have been interpreted throughout church history, and what it means to read difficult biblical passages through the lens of love. Whether you're questioning long-held beliefs, reconstructing your faith, or simply curious about alternative theological perspectives, this episode invites you into a deeper and more nuanced conversation about hell, justice, and the character of God. Full episode on Patreon.com/wheredowegopod