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Uncensored CMO

Jon Evans

The Uncensored CMO was created to explore the good, the bad and quite frankly downright ugly truth about marketing theory & practice.

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#288
Today · 54 min
Marketing leadership masterclass with ex WPP President, Karen Blackett CBE
Karen Blackett is one of the most respected leaders in marketing and media. As the former UK President of WPP and former CEO of GroupM UK, she has led through industry change, crisis and growth at the highest level. In this marketing leadership masterclass, Karen shares the principles that have shaped her career: why great teams need diverse perspectives and healthy tension; why leaders must say what they really think; and how to make better decisions without mistaking consensus for alignment. She reflects on leading GroupM UK through COVID, how she approaches recruitment, and the small meeting habit that helps ensure the most important conversations actually happen. Karen also discusses the evolving client-agency relationship, what the future holds for the creative industry, and the challenge of rebranding Barbados. Timestamps 00:00 - Start 00:51 - Karen’s new leadership podcast 02:03 - The surprising thing about leadership 05:25 - Why we need to change our view of leadership 05:58 - The standout leaders from Karen’s career 11:20 - Karen’s leadership lessons from running WPP 15:55 - The importance of diverse perspectives 17:34 - The importance of saying what you really think 20:28 - How to approach decision making 22:53 - How to approach recruitment 25:34 - Why you need healthy tension in a team 28:46 - Should we banish the voice note? 30:32 - Karen’s big covid turnaround story 34:57 - Why Karen never does “AOB” at the end of meetings 37:25 - The positive side of COVID for Jon 40:06 - How to foster a strong client agency relationship 44:59 - The future of the creative industry 48:42 - Rebranding Barbados 50:51 - What is the freedom of the city 51:48 - The best advice Karen has ever received --- Thank you to our sponsors System1 and HubSpot Download System1's creator effectiveness report here: https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here: https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo
#287
September 16 · 49 min
How to build a disruptive brand and win over the CFO - Vineet Mehra, Chime
What happens when a CMO brings the discipline of P&G, private equity and fintech together? Vineet Mehra, CMO of Chime, joins Jon to explain how the challenger bank has disrupted one of the most established industries in the world - and why modern marketing leaders need to become more fluent in the language of commercial value. Vineet shares what marketers can learn from private equity, how to position investment with a CFO, and the financial metrics he watches most closely. He also unpacks the constant balancing act between long-term brand building and short-term performance: not treating them as opposing forces, but connecting both to sustainable growth. They also discuss where AI is genuinely creating return, how marketers can avoid becoming commoditised, and the skills CMOs will need as AI reshapes the profession. Timestamps 00:00 - Start 01:21 - Vineet’s background at P&G 04:51 - What marketers can learn from working in Private Equity 07:50 - What is Chime Bank? 09:02 - The strategies that Chime used to disrupt the banking industry 13:46 - Advice on how to position marketing to the CFO 17:00 - What financial metrics is Vineet most focused on? 19:40 - How Vineet combines long term and short term marketing 23:59 - Are we in a golden age for marketing? 26:59 - How Vineet is getting the biggest return on his AI investment 31:13 - How to stop AI commoditising marketers 36:09 - What skills will a CMO need in an AI-first future 38:58 - How to see AI as an opportunity not a threat 40:13 - Why Vineet is on the Effie’s board 42:15 - Why Vineet spends time building his personal brand on LinkedIn 46:00 - What’s the bst advice Vineet has ever received? --- Thank you to our sponsors System1 and HubSpot Download System1's creator effectiveness report here: https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here: https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo
#286
September 9 · 47 min
What every Marketer needs to know about the future of search - Google’s Sophie Neary
AI is rapidly changing how people search, shop and discover new brands. So what does that mean for marketers? Sophie Neary has spent the past few years inside Google, giving her a front-row seat to some of the biggest shifts in consumer behaviour and advertising. In this episode, she joins Jon to explore what she's learned, the assumptions marketers still get wrong about Google, and the surprising ways consumers are already using AI. They discuss how brands can show up in AI-powered search, the evolving relationship between advertisers and creators, how to make the most of the crucial golden quarter, and what AI commerce could mean for the future of shopping. Plus, as AI becomes capable of doing more of the work, Sophie and Jon ask a bigger question: which uniquely human skills will become even more valuable to marketers? This episode is an advertisement feature brought to you by Google. Timestamps 00:00 - Start 01:12 - What has Sophie learned in the past few years at Google? 03:07 - CMO lessons from being inside Google 05:11 - What assumption marketers have about Google would Sophie challenge 08:07 - A surprising consumer pattern with AI 11:17 - How brands can show up in AI searches 18:56 - How advertisers can collaborate with creators? 22:09 - How Sophie uses her Google Fitbit Air 24:18 - How to optimise the golden quarter 28:08 - How important will AI commerce be in the future? 30:36 - get them to check this section 34:01 - The most uncensored question for Sophie Neary 37:44 - Where will human skills count in the age of AI? 45:26 - The best advice Sophie has ever been given --- Thank you to our sponsors System1 and HubSpot Download System1's creator effectiveness report here: https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here: https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo
#285
September 2 · 1 hr 2 min
Why uncertainty creates better marketing & what AI will never replace - Dr Margaret Heffernan
Dr Margaret Heffernan is one of the world's leading thinkers on uncertainty, leadership and creativity. A bestselling author, entrepreneur and former CEO, her latest book, Embracing Uncertainty, challenges one of the biggest assumptions in business that the future can, and should, be predicted. In this episode, Margaret explains why forecasting often fails, where great ideas really come from, and why spending more time with uncertainty can actually make us better leaders and marketers. We discuss the dangers of relying too heavily on data, the surprising habits of highly creative people, and why walking might be one of the best things you can do for your thinking. Timestamps 00:00 - Trailer 01:09 - Why pick uncertainty as a topic 05:31 - Why some companies shouldn’t forecast 09:04 - Why smart people are wasting time on forecasting 14:41 - The problem with having too much data 19:07 - Predictability only happens at scale 24:41 - Where do ideas come from? 27:19 - Why the Chief Economist of the Bank of England goes on walks 30:29 - Are we becoming too left brain dominant? 32:32 - The problem with AI 36:10 - Is AI killing our ability to think? 41:17 - How to make good ideas happen 44:11 - The power of surprise 46:15 - The improvisers paradox 49:31 - The correlation between the artists mind and the entrepreneur’s mind 51:57 - What human skills do we need to survive? 58:43 - The best advice Margaret has ever been given --- Thank you to our sponsors System1 and HubSpot Download System1's creator effectiveness report here: https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here: https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo
#284
August 26 · 45 min
How Heineken became creative brand of the year - Ali Payne
Ali Payne, CMO of Heineken, joins us to discuss how one of the world's most iconic beer brands became Creative Brand of the Year at Cannes Lions - and what it takes to keep a 150-year-old brand feeling fresh. From being the "Official Beer of Soccer" as a non-sponsor of the FIFA World Cup to reviving the legendary "Most Interesting Man in the World" campaign, Ali shares how Heineken balances long-term brand building with cultural relevance. We explore what it takes to get an entire organisation behind bold creative ideas, the role of sport in Heineken's marketing strategy, and how brands like Birra Moretti continue to grow through innovation. Timestamps 00:00 - Trailer 00:56 - World Cup fever for the USA and Heineken 02:51 - Jumping on cultural moments 04:25 - Becoming the official beer of soccer (unofficially) 06:50 - How non sponsors got more coverage than sponsors for the World Cup 10:18 - How to manage a 150 year old brand 12:31 - Winning Cannes creative brand of the year 14:46 - Getting the wider business on board with creative work 17:06 - Ali’s favourite Cannes Lions winner 18:38 - Bringing back Dos Equis most interesting man 22:58 - The success of Birra Moretti 24:49 - Heineken’s sports sponsorship strategy 28:32 - How are Heineken bringing new people into the category 29:56 - The ingredients for a successful innovation 33:12 - Heineken’s partnership with Heinz 37:08 - How great CMOs keep creativity alive 40:11 - What makes a great CMO? 41:58 - What’s the best advice you’ve ever recieved? --- Thank you to our sponsors System1 and HubSpot Download System1's creator effectiveness report here: https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here: https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo
#283
August 19 · 55 min
Why AI should drive growth, not just efficiency – Najoh Tita-Reid
Najoh Tita-Reid, former Chief Growth Officer at Mars Petcare, joins us to discuss why she made the unusual decision to step away from one of the biggest roles in marketing to embark on a self-described "learning safari", immersing herself in the world of AI and exploring what it means for the future of business. In this conversation, Najoh shares why she believes too many organisations are using AI purely to drive efficiency, when its greatest opportunity lies in unlocking growth. We explore how AI is changing creativity, leadership and the role of the CMO, why marketers risk becoming tacticians instead of strategic business leaders, and what today's CEOs really expect from marketing. Timestamps 00:00 - Start 00:57 - Why Najoh left Mars 02:18 - Why F1 is the perfect metaphor for AI in 2026 05:18 - Using AI for growth vs efficiency 08:01 - The impact AI is having on creativity 09:17 - Why AI is the colonisation of inefficiency 16:21 - Are we at risk of becoming tacticians and not strategy leaders? 18:52 - Does the CEO understand your role? 22:40 - Can AI actually delivery higher efficiency? 25:00 - What’s the secret to delivering growth 28:24 - What having a different job title gives you permission to do 33:11 - They key leadership skills for a great CMO 34:02 - Why great CMOs are accountable for making change 36:06 - Lessons from Najoh’s biggest failure 40:01 - The difference between culture in the UK and USA 44:09 - What Najoh has learnt on her learning safari 49:47 - The best advice Najoh has ever been given --- Thank you to our sponsors System1 and HubSpot Download System1's creator effectiveness report here: https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here: https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo
#282
August 12 · 54 min
How creativity transformed Australia’s No.1 Telecom’s brand - Brent Smart
Brent Smart is one of the most respected marketers in the world. After spending more than 20 years in advertising, he made the rare move from agency life to become CMO of NRMA Insurance. Brent's most recent role as CMO of Telstra, Australia's largest telecommunications company, he helped transform the brand through bold, distinctive and highly effective marketing. In this episode, Brent shares the principles behind his approach to creativity, from selling big ideas inside large organisations and drawing on academic marketing frameworks to building a culture where great work can thrive. We discuss the campaigns that defined his career, including Telstra's viral "Better on a Better Network" campaign, why humour and surprise remain powerful competitive advantages, and the unique agency model that helped Telstra consistently produce standout work. Timestamps 00:00 - Start 01:03 - Why Brent left Telstra 02:31 - Why Brent moved in house after 20 years agency side 05:41 - How to sell a creative idea into a big organisation 11:01 - The academic frameworks to create great marketing 12:16 - Why you should look at your brands heritage 14:02 - The most successful campaign Brent did for NRMA 17:33 - How Brent won a Grand Effie 21:13 - How Brent transformed Telstra’s brand marketing 26:08 - The Telstra Walk - the viral campaign 32:39 - Using humour to cut through 35:00 - The power of surprise and consistency 37:41 - The unique agency model that helped Telstra create cuthrough work 40:02 - Why craft is so important in 2026 42:44 - How to build a creative culture 47:11 - How to be a great CMO --- Thank you to our sponsors System1 and HubSpot Download System1's creator effectiveness report here: https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here: https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo
#281
August 5 · 48 min
Why your brand can't afford to be boring - Rebecca Darley, Vodafone Australia
Bec Darley, CMO of Vodafone Australia, joins us to discuss what it really takes to grow a challenger brand in one of the world's toughest telecoms markets. From competing against an entrenched duopoly to building distinctive campaigns with Ali Wong, Bec shares how Vodafone has embraced its challenger mindset rather than trying to imitate the market leaders. We explore why marketers need to understand far more than advertising, from unit economics and legal to customer experience and organisational change, and why the best marketing leaders are, ultimately, business leaders. Timestamps 00:00 - Start 00:54 - Who is Bec Darley? 03:31 - Taking on roles beyond marketing to make you a better marketer 05:38 - Why the history of duopolies in Australia makes being a challenger tough 08:53 - How does Vodafone take on the giants as a challenger 12:55 - Leaning into your disadvantage 16:01 - Vodafone’s commercials with Ali Wong 18:37 - The importance of legal for marketing 21:08 - When taking risks backfires - getting banned 24:19 - Focusing on mental availability 26:40 - Are we losing the ability to be creative while hunting efficiency 29:28 - Understanding the unit economics of the business 34:28 - How to manage a portfolio of brands 36:18 - Why you need to be customer first 38:51 - The best marketers move beyond marketing 40:24 - How to make change in a company 43:46 - Embracing discomfort and failing fast 46:23 - Bec’s advice to all young marketers --- Thank you to our sponsors System1 and HubSpot Download System1's creator effectiveness report here: https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here: https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo
#280
July 29 · 1 hr 3 min
20 years of challenger brand lessons with Auto & General CMO, Jonathan Kerr
Jonathan Kerr, CMO of Auto & General, joins us to explore how one of Australia's most successful challenger brands has built sustained growth by combining strong marketing fundamentals with relentless execution. From creating a role for himself at Auto & General to helping Budget Direct become one of the country's fastest-growing insurance brands, Jonathan shares why product should always come before growth, how marketers can take greater ownership of the 4 Ps, and what insurance consistently gets right about creativity. We also discuss the power of distinctive brand characters, audio branding, in-house creative teams and a media strategy designed to maximise long-term effectiveness. Useful links This episode is brought to you by System1. Download their creator effectiveness report here: https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here: https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo Timestamps 00:00:00 - Start 00:01:41 - How Jonathan found out about Auto and General 00:03:31 - How Jonathan created a new role for himself 00:06:58 - How to balance low price with great product 00:10:36 - Market share growth for Budget Direct 00:12:06 - Focusing on product over growth 00:13:59 - How to control more of the P’s 00:16:51 - Why does insurance produce such creative work? 00:20:52 - The power of compounding work in insurance 00:24:21 - Developing brand characters, and when to kill them off 00:30:08 - The power of audio and jingles 00:34:16 - What’s too silly to be said can be sung 00:36:13 - Why they do so much work in house 00:40:34 - Budget Direct’s unique approach to media buying 00:42:43 - How Jonathan uses AI 00:48:04 - The key challenger brand principles Jonathan has followed 00:50:59 - What makes a successful CMO? 00:52:55 - Do we need to re-educate ourselves on marketing theory? 01:00:27 - The best advice you’ve ever recieved
#279
July 22 · 48 min
How YouTube built the creator economy and how brands are still missing out - Pedro Pina, YouTube
Pedro Pina, VP of YouTube for Europe, the Middle East and Africa, joins us to explore how YouTube helped create the creator economy and why so many brands are still failing to take full advantage of it. From the rise of full-time creators to the changing role of YouTube in the media landscape, Pedro explains what makes the platform unique, the metrics that actually matter, and why great content continues to outperform everything else. We also discuss the balance between long-form and Shorts, the "YouTube Confidence Gap" among CMOs, and how brands can build authentic partnerships with creators that drive real business results. If you're wondering where marketing is heading next, this is a masterclass from one of the people shaping it. Get the YouTube Confidence Gap Report from Little Dot Studios: https://info.littledotstudios.com/little-dot-studios-the-youtube-confidence-gap-report This episode is brought to you by System1. Download their creator effectiveness report here: https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook Timestamps 00:00 - Intro 01:35 - Why YouTube made a creator space in Cannes 03:06 - How Cannes has changed over the past 20 years 06:12 - How many people are paid to be YouTubers 09:39 - The secret of YouTube 11:08 - Who are the biggest creators on YouTube 12:36 - What are the most important metrics on YouTube 14:42 - Why content will always be king on YouTube 15:57 - What makes a succesful YouTuber 19:48 - Is YouTube a broadcaster, streaming platform or social network? 22:36 - How important is short form for creators in 2026 27:24 - The YouTube Confidence Gap 28:56 - What CMOs think about YouTube 29:54 - How to get more confidence in your YouTube strategy 32:53 - The biggest barriers for companies being successful on YouTube 35:00 - How can brands work successfully with creators 39:31 - How can brands be authentic when they work with creators 42:46 - What Pedro wishes CMOs understood better about YouTube 44:14 - The best advice Pedro has ever recieved
#278
July 20 · 49 min
The creative revolution inside the worlds most dull category - Novartis CMO, Gail Horwood
Novartis CMO Gail Horwood joins Janet Balis, Managing Director & Senior Partner at BCG, to explore how one of the world's largest pharmaceutical companies is redefining healthcare marketing. Fresh from winning two Cannes Lions, Gail shares how Novartis is proving that creativity can thrive even in one of the most heavily regulated industries. From partnering with the NFL for a Super Bowl campaign to convincing stakeholders to embrace bolder ideas, we discuss what it takes to create work that stands out while navigating complex regulations. The conversation also explores how AI is reshaping both creativity and business transformation, where marketers should focus their efforts, and why the biggest opportunity for AI isn't just efficiency, but unlocking growth. This episode has been produced in partnership with BCG. Browse their CMO Report here: https://www.bcg.com/publications/2026/making-the-agentic-marketing-transformation-a-reality Timestamps 00:00 - Start 00:49 - Jon’s full circle moment with Norvatis 01:39 - Novartis’ journey to two Cannes Lions 02:54 - Why more people need to walk the work 04:05 - Creating surprising advertising in a heavily regulated category 09:03 - Partnering with the NFL for a Super Bowl campaign 10:24 - How to get your company to embrace risky work 16:01 - How to get stakeholders outside of marketing onboard 19:35 - The reaction to the ads after Super Bowl 21:56 - How AI is being used in the service of creativity 27:04 - How Novartis are using AI for creativity 30:27 - How Novartis are rethinking their marketing with AI 32:46 - Where AI is going to be used outside of marketing 35:03 - AI for efficiency vs growth 37:16 - How to deliver leadership change in the age of AI 40:22 - The boring things AI will solve 42:53 - What makes Gail such a good CMO 44:25 - The worst way to evaluate your career success 45:57 - The best advice Gail has ever received
#277
July 15 · 41 min
Why creativity matters more than ever in the age of AI - Adobe CMO, Lara Balazs
Lara Balazs, CMO of Adobe, joins us to discuss what it takes to lead one of the world's most influential creative brands through a period of enormous change. From Adobe's presence at Cannes to the rapid rise of AI, Lara shares her vision for the company and why she believes technology should be used in service of creativity, rather than simply to drive efficiency. We explore why creativity matters more than ever in the age of AI, the skills Adobe looks for in marketers, and the traits that separate the most successful CMOs. Lara also shares the practical leadership principles she uses to run her team, from creating a company plan on a page and harnessing the power of repetition to prioritising progress over perfection and using the “two-way door” approach to make faster decisions. This episode is brought to you by System1. Download their creator effectiveness report here: https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook Timestamps 00:00 - Start 01:23 - The most surprising thing about Lara 03:11 - How Adobe have stood out at Cannes 05:50 - What makes an influential CMO? 06:59 - How to manage a business through change 09:54 - Lara’s vision for Adobe 13:33 - Finding inspiration from a brand’s history 15:13 - Where AI has been used in service of creativity 18:03 - AI to enhance creativity vs increasing efficiency 20:42 - Why creativity still matters in the AI age 23:41 - What skillsets does Adobe hire for in marketing? 25:22 - The traits of the most successful CMOs 28:55 - The company plan on a page 30:49 - The power of repitition 32:05 - Progress over perfection at Adobe 33:14 - The two way door approach 37:19 - The best advice Lara has ever recieved
#274
July 13 · 41 min
OpenAI on what every CMO needs to know about AI with BCG
In this episode, Mark Abraham, Managing Director and Senior Partner at BCG, joins Elke Karskens, Head of International Marketing at OpenAI to explore how AI is already transforming marketing and what's coming next. We discuss OpenAI's remarkable growth, the launch of its first advertising campaign, and how marketers can prepare for a future where AI is embedded across every function. The conversation covers how brands can increase their visibility in ChatGPT, the opportunities created by tools like Codex, the skills tomorrow's CMOs will need, and why the real value of AI isn't just efficiency, it's effectiveness. This episode has been produced in partnership with BCG. Browse their CMO Report here: https://www.bcg.com/publications/2026/making-the-agentic-marketing-transformation-a-reality Timestamps 00:00 - Start 01:16 - Open AI’s meteoric rise 02:07 - Breakthrough moments for OpenAI 03:04 - How have Open AI scaled so quickly 04:49 - What will be led by humans and what will be led by AI in 5 years 06:09 - Open AI’s impressive first ad campaign 08:32 - Launch of the Open AI advertising platform 13:01 - How brands can rank in ChatGPT 14:44 - How brands can use Codex 17:44 - How do CMOs feel about AI 19:34 - How do you deliver transformation with AI 20:55 - What skillsets are going to be in demand for the future CMO 23:29 - Which brands are using AI well today 24:52 - What can we do with AI in a year from now we can’t do today? 29:45 - Why BCG and Open AI work together 30:53 - What don’t people understand about AI? 35:11 - Efficiency and cost savings vs effectiveness in AI 38:15 - Best advice you’ve ever been given
#276
July 8 · 1 hr 26 min
Byron Sharp vs Mark Ritson - 5 big marketing truths we agree on
For years, Mark Ritson and Byron Sharp have been two of the most influential and most opinionated voices in marketing. They've challenged each other's ideas, debated strategy, and helped shape how an entire generation of marketers thinks. Now, for the first time in more than a decade, at Cannes Lions, they sit down together to answer a simple question: what do they actually agree on? From How Brands Grow and the 95:5 rule to distinctiveness, the 4 Ps, mass marketing, luxury brands, purpose and AI, this conversation explores the fundamental marketing principles they both believe every marketer should understand. There are still plenty of disagreements (and more than a few jokes at each other's expense), but this is a rare opportunity to hear two of the industry's biggest thinkers build a shared foundation for modern marketing. This episode is brought to you by System1. Download their creator effectiveness report here: https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook Timestamps 00:00:00 - Start 00:00:40 - Teaser 00:02:08 - Mark Ritson on Champagne 00:03:42 - When did Mark and Byron meet 00:05:36 - Why Byron and Mark are coming together after a decade 00:07:25 - When Jon met Byron 00:08:57 - Is AI more brand centric than humans? 00:11:08 - Mark and Byron’s criticism on their Cannes talk 00:12:49 - The problem with academia 00:13:45 - What do marketers still not understand about How Brands Grow 00:18:06 - You are not the customer 00:20:56 - Distinctiveness vs relative differentiation 00:28:45 - Why we need to control all 4 Ps 00:33:10 - The 95:5 rule 00:39:20 - Why Byron doesn’t like the term “Long Term” 00:42:41 - The role of mass marketing 00:46:40 - How to do mass marketing as a challenger brand 00:53:45 - How long does it take to build a proper brand 00:56:10 - What does Byron think of P&G 00:58:47 - The power of distinctive brand assets 01:03:42 - Why brand anniversaries are pointless 01:04:40 - How luxury brands grow 01:09:16 - The role of purpose 01:16:58 - The dark lord of penetration 01:18:17 - What pet name does Byron have for Mark 01:23:17 - Closing remarks
#275
July 6 · 46 min
The Google approach to marketing in the age of AI (with Google and BCG)
In this episode, Josh Spanier from Google and Lauren Wiener from BCG join us to discuss how AI is transforming marketing, organisations, and the role of the CMO. From navigating the AI hype cycle to building the right culture for change, they share practical advice for leaders trying to turn AI from a buzzword into a genuine competitive advantage. We also explore the future skills marketers will need, the changing role of agencies, why marketing should lead AI transformation, and where the industry is likely to be just 12 months from now. This episode has been produced in partnership with BCG. Browse their CMO Report here: https://www.bcg.com/publications/2026/making-the-agentic-marketing-transformation-a-reality Timestamps 00:00 - Start 01:52 - Where are we in the AI hype cycle 04:48 - How are Google seeing AI impact businesses 06:50 - The difference between the CMOs who are getting it right and wrong 09:05 - The future of marketing in the age of AI 10:48 - The skills of the future CMO 16:41 - Why marketing needs to drive the change 19:18 - Positive examples of AI 24:01 - How do organisations make the change 27:02 - When AI campaigns don’t go so well 29:11 - How AI data will transform marketing 30:13 - Dealing with higher expectations but less resource 35:25 - The culture to enable successful AI transformation 36:55 - The role of agencies in an AI world 38:50 - AI predictions in 12 months 40:23 - The best advice you’ve ever been given 41:52 - Where will marketing be in 12 months
#273
July 1 · 45 min
The Startling Power of Surprise with Adam Morgan
Adam Morgan, founder of eatbigfish and co-creator of The Cost of Dull, joins us to explore why surprise is one of the most powerful tools available to marketers. Drawing on new research unveiled at Cannes Lions, Adam and Jon explain the psychology behind surprise, the science of reward prediction error, and why memorable brands consistently give people more than they expect. We discuss the different types of surprise, why products need to live up to the expectations created by advertising, and examine some of the best examples of surprise in modern marketing from Aldi to Jaguar and beyond. Timestamps 00:00 - Start 01:58 - The surprising outcomes of Cost of Dull 06:04 - The genesis of Cost of Dull 09:01 - Why are we talking about surprise? 10:08 - Why the best marketers look outside of marketing 13:42 - What the data says about surprise 15:50 - Reward prediction error 17:26 - Why your product needs to exceed expectations set by your brand 19:59 - The surprising power of giving people more than they expect 21:48 - The two types of surprise 25:00 - Adam’s favourite examples of surprise 26:09 - Jon’s favourite example of surprise 28:20 - Was Jaguar intentionally surprising? 29:39 - Examples of long term surprise 31:50 - Why Aldi are so successful at surprise 34:28 - Why you need a system for your surprise 38:15 - The right balance of surprise 42:12 - When is shock necessary
#272
June 24 · 58 min
The real 4 P's of the CMO with Susan O'Brien (Just Eat)
Suso O'Brien, former CMO of Just Eat, joins us to discuss what the role of the modern CMO really looks like. Drawing on her experience helping scale Just Eat and the findings from a new CMO survey conducted with TikTok, Suso argues that today's marketing leaders need a completely different set of priorities. We revisit the growth of Just Eat, the success of the iconic “Did Somebody Say…” campaign, and the role celebrity partnerships and sonic branding played in building the brand. But beyond the advertising, Suso shares why CMOs spend surprisingly little time on the work itself, why internal influence matters more than ever, and why managing expectations may be more important than managing brands. The conversation also explores the lack of marketing representation at the top of organisations, the pressures facing today's CMOs, and Suso's framework for leading people through her five Cs of great management. Timestamps 00:00 - Start 02:52 - The food delivery category in 2016 04:05 - The role marketing played in the growth of Just Eat 05:55 - Does “did somebody say?” translate globally? 07:26 - The celebrity strategy behind Just Eat 09:47 - The power of sonic branding 12:12 - What impact did the campaign have vs other growth levers for Just Eat 14:36 - CMOs rarely spend any time on the work 17:28 - The real 4 Ps of the CMO 19:06 - Discoveries from the CMO survey with TikTok 20:56 - Why the lack of marketing representation at the top of companies is worrying 22:00 - What skills are lacking in an organisation 23:08 - The short term pressure on the CMO 24:34 - How do you make the case to invest in long term 28:20 - The power of compounding creativity 29:04 - The CMO’s role is managing expectations, not brands 30:04 - Why CMO’s need to persuade internal stakeholders 36:10 - The #1 challenge CMO’s face 40:58 - Suso’s hardest challenges as Just Eat CMO 42:40 - Why Suso asked her colleagues for feedback when she left Just Eat 44:17 - 5 C’s of great people management 44:32 - 1: Care 45:30 - 2: Clarity 47:35 - 3. Calling it early 49:12 - 4. The cost of comfort 51:33 - 5: Constant feedback 53:25 - Suso’s advice to future CMOs
#271
June 22 · 44 min
The power of incredible customer experience - Jamie Domenici, Klaviyo
Jamie Domenici, CMO of Klaviyo, joins us to discuss why customer experience has become one of the most powerful drivers of growth. Drawing on lessons from nearly a decade at Salesforce and her experience joining Klaviyo just months before its IPO, Jamie shares how great brands create loyalty by obsessing over the customer. We explore what marketers can learn from customer success teams, why events like Dreamforce are so memorable, and how Klaviyo has repositioned itself while building a competitive moat in an increasingly crowded market. Jamie also shares her views on AI, the future workforce, the skills tomorrow's CMOs will need, and the difference between good marketing leaders and truly great ones. Timestamps 00:00 - Start 01:05 - Jamie’s strange first job 02:26 - Best and worst customer experiences 05:56 - The power of a good customer experience 08:45 - Marketing lessons from customer success 11:48 - Marketing lessons from 10 years at Salesforce 13:05 - Why Dreamforce was a great example of good customer experience 14:46 - The key to a great keynote 21:56 - Joining Klaviyo just months before an IPO 24:28 - Repositioning a company 25:45 - How does B2C differ to B2B when it comes to CRM? 28:41 - How Klaviyo are building their moat 30:51 - Where is AI going to have the biggest impact? 32:19 - How are Klaviyo using AI in their product? 34:14 - How AI is going to change the workforce 35:42 - What skills will future CMOs be hiring for? 37:31 - The difference between a good CMO and a great CMO 39:17 - Why Klaviyo invest a lot in events 40:52 - The best advice Jamie has ever received
#270
June 17 · 1 hr 20 min
Why brave creativity means business results according to GUT co-founder Anselmo Ramos
Anselmo Ramos is one of the most respected creatives in advertising and the co-founder of GUT, the agency behind some of the world's most talked-about campaigns. Built on the belief that brave creativity drives business growth, GUT has quickly become one of the industry's most successful modern agencies. In this episode, Anselmo shares the story behind founding GUT, the principles that guide the business, and why marketers need to trust their instincts more. We discuss the power of relationships, how to build a great co-founder partnership, and why the biggest challenge often comes after success. We also explore GUT's approach to pitching, the bravery gap facing modern brands, the role of AI, and the campaigns that have helped define the agency's remarkable rise. Timestamps 00:00:00 - Start 00:02:44 - Why is the industry obsessed with making rational advertising? 00:04:19 - Why GUT have 68 principles 00:06:27 - Why you need to pay more attention to your GUT 00:09:10 - The GUT agency founding story 00:12:41 - The secret to a successful co-founder relationship 00:14:42 - Lessons from creating a successful agency 00:17:58 - The surprising challenges of growing a successful agency 00:20:14 - The compounding power of relationships 00:22:55 - GUT’s approach to pitching 00:29:26 - How to be productive and find inspiration 00:31:50 - The power of working without approval 00:36:26 - The bravery scale and the bravery gap 00:40:17 - How to become a brave brand 00:43:26 - Why brave creativity drives business results 00:45:52 - Why black t shirts? 00:49:09 - How GUT’s acquisition changed the business 00:56:21 - How to plan your exit strategy 00:59:29 - The Artois Probability: a Grand Prix winning campaign 01:03:55 - Wimbledon All White Stella Artois Can 01:05:59 - Stella Artois partnership with David Beckham 01:11:06 - Where Anselmo uses AI 01:13:53 - The best advice Anselmo has ever been given
#269
June 10 · 59 min
Greg Hahn on why the biggest risk you can take is to be ignorable
Greg Hahn returns to the podcast to discuss the philosophy that has made Mischief one of the most talked-about agencies in the world. From Tubi's famous Super Bowl interruption campaign to turning around legacy brands like JCPenney, Greg explains why the biggest risk brands face today isn't failure, it's being ignored. We discuss how to create safe spaces for dangerous ideas, why AI risks making marketers more cautious, and the hidden cost of playing it safe. Greg also shares the traits of great CMOs, the future of agencies and pitching, the campaigns he's most proud of, and the advice he'd give to the next generation of creatives. Thanks for System1 for supporting the podcast: https://system1group.com Timestamps 00:00 - Start 01:43 - Who are Mischief and what do they stand for? 04:26 - What would Greg Hahn’s walk on track be? 05:05 - How to make a safe space for dangerous ideas 07:46 - Is AI making us play it safe? 10:37 - What is the real cost of playing it safe? 14:31 - The Mischief strategy behind Tubi 16:20 - Tubi’s famous Super Bowl interruption campaign 17:20 - The reward prediction error theory 22:16 - Turning around a large legacy business like JCPenney 25:55 - The traits of a successful CMO 28:06 - The JCPenney movie trailer 30:16 - Goldfish Chilean Sea Bass campaign 35:51 - Why Greg likes George Felix as a CMO 37:09 - The work that Greg is most proud of 38:03 - What does the future of pitching look like? 40:50 - How much of Mischief’s work comes from pitching 42:13 - The future of social media 43:17 - What other agency work is Greg envious of? 45:03 - What would Greg do if he wasn’t afraid? 48:01 - What does the future creative agency look like? 49:14 - What does the future CMO role look like? 51:12 - What does Greg want to achieve next? 53:29 - Greg’s advice for young creatives 54:25 - What’s the best advice Greg Hahn has ever been given? 56:59 - What content does Greg consume? - Post chat

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