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UnBuild It Podcast

Unbuild It Podcast

THE GOOD news: our homebuilding industry is jam-packed with new materials, new techniques, and new systems, and it’s so easy to get information online in an instant. THE

BAD news: How do we know what we can trust, what will work, and under what conditions? Where do we turn to separate the spin-and-hype from the true-and-square? We’ve got you covered! The UnBuild It Podcast is an industry-leading opportunity to get good information. UnBuild It podcast is a three-member team – Peter Yost, Building Scientist; Jake Bruton, Builder, and Remodeler; and Steven Baczek, Architect. We are nationally recognized industry leaders: Jake as a homebuilder, Steve as an architect, and Peter as a building scientist. You can find us at leading homebuilding industry events, in top-notch publications, and online media outlets. We believe that solid industry-related information has four key ingredients;

RELEVANCE: You need insight on your job site. Jake, Steve, and Peter are in the field regularly doing what we strive to do. We walk the walk – then talk about the walk. We have worked together long enough to build on each other’s expertise and not take ourselves too seriously. We are among the best at taking what may seem like complicated concepts, breaking them down, and turning them into job-site-ready breakthroughs.

ACCURACY: Jake is often quoted as saying, “Trust but Validate.” We don’t ask you to be the bleeding, leading edge; we develop trusted solutions based on our work in the field, pushing each other to practice what we preach. Our accuracy comes out of triangulation: building, design, and performance.

UTILITY: We guarantee that each podcast episode will move you from all ears to all action. Our information is born from our work. We pride ourselves on delivering information you can use the same day you listen to an episode.

CAMARADERIE: We work together because we love homebuilding, hitting the airwaves, and humor. We are not doing our job if you are not enjoying learning with us during each episode.

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S1 · E167
Thursday · 38 min
167 - Vented Over-Roofs & Double-Stud Walls: Building Science Tradeoffs
Are vented over-roofs and double-stud walls worth the added complexity? Steve, Jake, and Pete debate two high-performance building assemblies where moisture management, thermal performance, cost, and constructability all come into play. First up: vented over-roofs. Adding a ventilation space above the structural roof deck sounds straightforward, but the details get complicated quickly. The crew digs into ventilation gap depth, furring strip configurations, spacer mesh, roofing underlayments, and the challenges of integrating these systems with standing seam metal roofs. They also explore night-sky radiation and how it can affect roof temperatures and moisture behavior. Then the conversation shifts to double-stud wall assemblies and how they compare with exterior continuous insulation systems like Huber ZIP-R and mineral wool XCI. Which approach delivers better performance? How do thermal bridging, moisture management, installation complexity, and cost influence the decision? As usual, the boys have plenty of opinions—and aren't afraid to challenge each other. The takeaway? There isn't one perfect assembly for every project. Climate, trade experience, constructability, budget, and long-term durability all matter when choosing how to build. PETE'S RESOURCES: Steve Baczek – Roof Vent Over Nocturnal Radiation Cooling Tests (ScienceDirect) Green Building Advisor – Double-Stud Wall vs. Exterior Insulation Pete's Note: This article requires GBA Prime, but it's an excellent technical comparison of the two approaches. Huber ZIP System R-Sheathing Installation Manual Pete's Note: See pages 12 and 48 for guidance on addressing panel gaps. Huber ZIP System Wall Sheathing Pete's Note: Huber supports ZIP System tape installation down to 0°F. At those temperatures, proper surface preparation is critical. Surfaces must be clean, dry, and frost-free, with sufficient application pressure to achieve adhesion. Consult Huber's current installation instructions for cold-weather requirements.
October 18 · 32 min
166 - Why Is Steve So Angry? High-Performance Building Frustrations
Why is building a high-performance home so frustrating? Steve Baczek has some strong opinions about the challenges facing architects and builders who are trying to deliver better-performing homes—and Jake Bruton is happy to let him vent. From clients who want the best of everything without paying for it to an industry that still struggles to understand what high-performance construction actually means, Steve breaks down the frustrations of designing and building homes that prioritize durability, comfort, and building science. Jake also brings up one of the industry's most polarizing topics: spray foam insulation. Is it a miracle product that solves every building-envelope problem, or an environmental disaster that should be avoided entirely? As usual, the reality is more complicated than either extreme. The conversation explores the disconnect between expectations and budgets, the time and expertise required to build better homes, and why building professionals often find themselves fighting an uphill battle against misconceptions about performance, materials, and construction quality. Does Steve work through his frustrations? Does Jake make things worse? And will any of this make the rest of us feel better about the challenges of building better homes? You'll have to listen to find out. PETE'S RESOURCES: BuildingGreen - Foam-In-Place Insulation: 7 Tips for Getting Injection and Spray Foam Right Air Barrier Association of America (ABAA) - Third-Party Certification Programs Spray Polyurethane Foam Alliance (SPFA) - Professional Certification Programs ASHRAE Standard 160 - Criteria for Moisture-Control Design Analysis in Buildings Journal of Light Construction - Overdriven Fasteners in ZIP System Sheathing
S1 · E165
October 1 · 27 min
165 - High-Performance Homes: Do They Really Cost More?
Do high-performance homes have to be expensive? Steve and Jake tackle one of the most persistent misconceptions in building science: that better-performing homes are only practical for wealthy clients with luxury-home budgets. Yes, Steve and Jake work on plenty of high-end custom homes. But the price of those projects shouldn't be confused with the cost of applying good building science. Better water management, airtightness, insulation, durability, comfort, and energy performance aren't inherently luxury features—and many of the principles behind them can be applied across a wide range of budgets. The conversation gets into where the real costs of high-performance construction come from, how builders and architects can prioritize decisions that deliver meaningful value, and why better performance doesn't require throwing expensive products at every part of a building. With Pete absent this week, Jake also gives Steve some room to respond to the social-media criticism they receive about designing and building for wealthy clients. Fair warning: the conversation gets a little spicy. Ultimately, the question isn't simply how much more a high-performance home costs. It's where the money is being spent, what the client gets in return, and how building-science principles can deliver better performance without turning every project into an unconstrained luxury build. PETE'S RESOURCES: WolfWorks - How Much Does High Performance Cost? PNNL - Literature Review of Data on the Incremental Costs to Design and Build Low-Energy Buildings GBA (PRIME) - Achieving Affordable High-Performance Homes
S1 · E164
September 18 · 36 min
164 - Back to Basics: Thermal Control Layers Explained
R-value is only part of the story. In the final episode of the Back to Basics series, Steve, Jake, and Pete tackle the thermal control layer—and why good insulation means very little if the rest of the building enclosure isn't working with it. The boys break down heat flow, insulation, thermal bridging, and the importance of maintaining a continuous thermal control layer throughout the building. As with water, air, and vapor, continuity matters: transitions, penetrations, framing, windows, doors, and other interruptions can undermine an otherwise well-insulated assembly. But thermal performance isn't simply about chasing higher R-values. The conversation gets into making intelligent decisions about where insulation belongs, how different materials and assemblies actually perform, and why the thermal layer has to be considered as part of the whole building rather than as an isolated specification. And that brings the four-part series full circle. Control liquid water first. Control air movement. Understand vapor and drying potential. Then manage heat flow. The best-performing buildings come from getting all four control layers continuous—and getting them to work together. This is Part 4 of the Back to Basics series covering the four fundamental building control layers: Water, Air, Vapor, and Thermal. PETE'S RESOURCES: BSC - Thermal Control: Insulation & Thermal Bridges BSI-062 - Thermal Bridges Redux Building America Solution Center - Continuous Rigid Insulation Sheathing BSI-001 - The Perfect Wall GBA - Thermal Bridging
S1 · E163
September 3 · 37 min
Back to Basics: Vapor Control Layers Explained | UnBuild It Podcast #163
Vapor is one of the most misunderstood parts of building science—and in many assemblies, it helps buildings dry rather than making them wet. In Part 3 of the Back to Basics series, Steve, Jake, and Pete break down vapor control, vapor permeability, drying potential, and why decades of confusing code language created so much fear around vapor. As Steve puts it, “Vapor is not a liability, it is an asset.” Buildings get wet. In most climates and assemblies, the ability to dry through vapor diffusion is an important part of keeping moisture-sensitive materials safe. The crew explains why you need to understand the vapor permeability of every layer in an assembly, where to find reliable material data, and when to go directly to manufacturers for standardized test results. They also get into indoor humidity measurement and why accurate hygrometers are more important—and more expensive—than many people realize. This is Part 3 of the four-part Back to Basics series covering Water, Air, Vapor, and Thermal control. Pete’s Resources: Water in Buildings: An Architect’s Guide to Moisture and Mold Vapor Profiles Help Predict Whether a Wall Can Dry ICC R702.7 – Vapor Retarders BSC Building Materials Property Table Measuring and Understanding Humidity ASTM E96: Explaining Water Vapor Transmission Rate Testing Building Science Advisor
S1 · E162
August 21 · 36 min
162 - Back to Basics: Air Control Layers Explained
Airtightness is one of the most important—and most measurable—parts of building performance. In Part 2 of the Back to Basics series, Steve, Jake, and Pete break down how air control layers work, why continuity matters, and how blower door testing exposes the difference between theory and reality. The crew starts with several principles that apply across multiple control layers: staying in one plane makes continuity easier, simpler details are more likely to succeed, and combining control functions in a single material can reduce opportunities for failure. They also revisit one of their favorite ideas: eliminate “confused spaces.” Attics, crawlspaces, and other areas should clearly belong either inside or outside the building enclosure. Then the conversation gets specific to airtightness. Blower doors do not lie. ACH50 provides the quantitative result, but finding the actual leaks—their size, location, and number—is just as important. The boys discuss why one blower door test is rarely enough, how wind, stack effect, and fans drive air leakage, and why two mediocre air control layers do not equal one good one. For renovations, the sequence is simple: blower door test first, air seal second, insulate third. Pete's Resources: EPA – Moisture Control Guidance for Building Design, Construction, and Maintenance ENERGY STAR Thermal Bypass Checklist A House Needs to Breathe...Or Does It? An Introduction to Building Science by Allison Bailes
S1 · E161
August 6 · 37 min
161 - Back to Basics: Water Control Layers Explained
Water is the number one enemy of building durability—and the first control layer every builder, architect, and designer needs to understand. In Part 1 of a four-part Back to Basics series, Steve, Jake, and Pete break down the principles of water management that every high-performance building depends on. The conversation starts where most rain begins: the roof. From roof design and drainage to flashing strategies and capillary action, the crew explores how liquid water moves through buildings and why good design is the first line of defense. They also discuss how patterns of water damage in both historic and modern buildings reveal timeless lessons about moisture management. One of the episode's most interesting discussions comes when building science theory meets real-world practice. Steve approaches water management from an architect's perspective, while Jake explains the practical realities builders face every day. The result is a thoughtful conversation about balancing ideal building science with constructability in the field. This is Part 1 of a four-part series covering the four fundamental building control layers: Water, Air, Vapor, and Thermal. Pete's Resources: Joe Lstiburek – Moisture Control for Buildings EPA – Moisture Control Guidance for Building Design, Construction, and Maintenance Water in Buildings: An Architect's Guide to Moisture and Mold
S1 · E160
July 16 · 34 min
160 - Designing Homes for Extreme Weather & Natural Disasters
How do you design a home for floods, wildfires, earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, or ice storms? In this episode, Steve, Jake, and Pete explore what it really means to build for extreme events—and why there’s no one-size-fits-all solution. Drawing from real-world experience, Steve and Jake discuss how high-performance homes can be adapted to withstand the specific hazards of a site’s climate and geography. From flood-resistant foundations and safe rooms to wildfire resilience and high-wind detailing, the conversation focuses on matching building strategies to the level of protection each client wants to achieve. The discussion also highlights an important philosophy: building professionals aren’t there to judge a client’s concerns—they’re there to understand the risks, explain the tradeoffs, and design solutions that meet the client’s goals. Whether you’re building in a floodplain, earthquake zone, hurricane corridor, or wildfire-prone area, this episode explores the principles behind resilient, durable homes designed for the unexpected. Pete’s Resources: FEMA Breakaway Walls Guidance FEMA Safe Room Design Guide FEMA Flood Openings in Foundation Walls Simpson Strong-Tie High Wind Construction Guide FamilySafe Storm Shelters IBHS Home Disaster Guides
S1 · E159
July 2 · 30 min
159 - Climate Zone 7 Ceilings, Universal Design & Alternative Foundations
Three listener questions lead to three very different building science discussions—from cold-climate roof assemblies to aging-in-place design and innovative foundation systems. The episode begins with a Climate Zone 7 tongue-and-groove ceiling question, comparing ZIP sheathing and smart vapor retarders for airtightness and moisture control beneath a vented attic. From there, a question about zero-threshold exterior doors expands into a broader conversation about Universal Design and designing homes that remain accessible throughout every stage of life. The final discussion explores alternatives to traditional concrete foundations, including wood-based and prefabricated foundation systems. Steve and Jake weigh in on whether they would actually build with these systems, while Pete introduces an intriguing below-grade SIP foundation from Extreme Panel Technologies that was new to all three hosts. Three listener questions, dozens of practical takeaways, and another deep dive into the details that shape better buildings. Pete’s Resources: Climate Zone 7 T&G Ceiling SBA – ZIP Ceiling SBA – Smart Vapor Retarder Ceiling Universal Design & Aging in Place Build Show – Forever Home Series European Exterior Doors Automatic Drop-Down Door Seals The Universal Design Project Mississippi State Barrier-Free Design Guides Alternative Foundations Extreme Panel Technologies Foundations CCA Treated Plywood Specification
S1 · E158
June 18 · 37 min
Multiple Chemical Sensitivity & Building Performance - 158
How much can a building affect human health—and what happens when occupants become highly sensitive to their environment? In this episode, Steve and Pete are joined by retired building scientist and pulmonary physician Nathan Yost for a thoughtful discussion on Multiple Chemical Sensitivity (MCS) and its relationship to building performance. Nathan shares insights from decades of experience working with clients dealing with chemical sensitivities, along with more recent medical understanding surrounding pregnancy, hormonal changes, and biochemical sensitivities. The conversation explores where building science intersects with health concerns, how indoor environments can influence occupant comfort, and what building professionals should consider when designing for sensitive individuals. Steve also shares examples from recent projects where MCS concerns led to major changes in materials, specifications, and interior design decisions. The discussion even ventures into the controversial topic of electromagnetic fields and so-called “dead zones,” highlighting the challenges of balancing occupant concerns with evidence-based building practice. It’s a fascinating conversation about the overlap between buildings, health, and the limits of what construction professionals can realistically control. Pete’s Resources: Helping People with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity Medical Conditions Building Professionals Need to Know About Prescriptions for a Healthy House (4th Edition) NIH – Electric & Magnetic Fields BuildingGreen – Building Design and EMF
S1 · E157
June 4 · 32 min
157 - Four Building Science Puzzles: Expansive Soils, Radiant Barriers & More
Four listener questions. Four very different building science challenges. One highly technical episode. Steve, Jake, and Pete tackle a collection of building puzzles that span foundations, roofs, wall assemblies, and moisture management. The discussion starts with expansive soils and why successful construction often depends on engineered foundation systems designed to accommodate soil movement. From there, the crew examines attic radiant barriers, where they work best, and why climate matters when evaluating their performance. The conversation then shifts to a cold-climate stucco retrofit involving exterior rigid insulation, reinforcing a core building science principle: prioritize the four control layers in the right order—water first, airtightness second, drying potential third, and thermal control fourth. Finally, they unpack the risks of a “diaper wall” assembly, where moisture-sensitive materials become trapped between low-permeance layers, and discuss how weather protection and airtightness can reduce those risks. A highly technical episode packed with practical problem-solving, building science fundamentals, and real-world application. Pete’s Resources: Post-Tension Slabs for Expansive Soils Evolution of Foundation Design for Expansive Soils ORNL Thermal Performance Evaluation of Attic Radiant Barrier Systems Building America Solution Center – Attic Radiant Barriers EPA Moisture Control Guidance GBA – Vapor Profiles Help Predict Whether a Wall Can Dry
May 21 · 34 min
156 - Building Standards vs Better Buildings?
Do certifications, standards, and professional credentials actually lead to better buildings—or just more paperwork? Steve, Jake, and Pete tackle one of the more uncomfortable questions in the building industry: why so many standards fail to consistently produce better outcomes in the real world. The conversation ranges from ASTM standards and manufacturer testing to architectural credentials and industry certifications, questioning where standards genuinely help—and where culture, habits, and resistance to change become the bigger obstacle. Steve makes the case that the industry’s biggest challenge may not be technical at all, but cultural. The crew also digs into one of Steve’s standout ideas: “chase friction.” Instead of accepting inefficient details, weak processes, or recurring failures, the goal should be to constantly look for the points of resistance that reveal where buildings can improve. It’s an opinionated discussion with a few disagreements along the way, but the central takeaway is clear: meaningful progress only happens through rigorous education—for both building professionals and clients alike. Pete’s Resources: Treasure of the Sierra Madre clip ISO Construction Quality Standards Construction Education & Certifications Chasing Friction Article
S1 · E155
May 7 · 32 min
155 - ZIP-R on the Roof? Structural, Hygrothermal & Durability Tradeoffs
Can ZIP-R panels work on a roof—and should they? Steve, Jake, and Nick Sabol from Huber’s Technical team dig into a topic that’s getting a lot of attention in the field. This episode breaks down the full set of considerations behind putting insulated sheathing on the roof deck: structural loading, fastening and shear, hygrothermal behavior, condensation risk, and long-term durability. The crew looks at where the idea makes sense, where it doesn’t, and what you need to understand before trying it on a real project. It’s a detail-heavy conversation that connects theory to field conditions—exactly where most “good ideas” succeed or fail. And for Pete’s top resource on this one? Call Steve. Pete’s Resources: ICC-ES Report 1473 Roofs & Attics: The Building Science of “the Lid” Huber Technical Support: techquestions@huber.com
S1 · E154
April 16 · 31 min
154 - Wildfire Zone Rainscreens & Smarter ZIP Sheathing Use
Do wildfire zones actually change how rainscreens should be detailed—and where does conventional thinking fall short? Nick Sabol from Huber’s Product Engineering team is back with Steve and Pete to continue the deep dive into wall details that actually work. This episode focuses on rainscreen strategies in wildfire-prone areas and challenges the assumption that every risk requires a completely different assembly. The discussion also highlights Steve’s perspective on using materials like ZIP sheathing in unconventional ways—prioritizing performance and continuity over tradition when it makes sense. From fire exposure considerations to air barrier continuity, the conversation connects real-world risk with practical detailing decisions. It’s a continuation of the Part I discussion, with a sharper focus on where building science meets evolving conditions like the Wildland Urban Interface. Pete’s Resources: ICC Harmathy’s Ten Rules US Fire Administration – Wildland Urban Interface IBHS External Sprinklers for Wildfire Defense Build Show – Air Barrier Continuity (Wall to Ceiling) Build Show – Air Barrier Continuity (Ceiling)
S1 · E153
April 2 · 32 min
153 - Wall Details That Actually Work: Water, Air & Rainscreens
What are the most critical wall details for managing water and air—and where do builders get them wrong? Nick Sabol from Huber’s Product Engineering team joins the crew for a technical deep dive into exterior wall assemblies that actually perform. Pete, Jake, and Nick focus on two of the most failure-prone areas in construction: bottom-of-wall-to-foundation connections and window rainscreen detailing. The discussion breaks down how to properly manage bulk water, maintain continuous air control, and integrate systems so they work together instead of against each other. Along the way, they introduce RAINA (Rainscreen Association in North America) and highlight why rainscreen strategies are becoming essential for durability across climates. It’s a detail-heavy episode with practical takeaways for builders, designers, and anyone serious about building enclosures—plus, for better or worse, no Dad joke this time. Pete’s Resources: Huber ZIP System Bottom-of-Wall Details Above-Grade Foundation Wall Waterproofing (GBA) Huber Technical Support: 1.800.933.9220 | techquestions@huber.com RAINA (Rainscreen Association of North America) Must-Know Window and Door Flashing Details
S1 · E152
March 19 · 40 min
152 - Thermal & Structural Loads: Insulation, Wood, and Concrete
How much load can insulation actually carry—and are we over-engineering residential buildings without realizing it? This episode goes deep into the structural and thermal realities behind common building materials. The crew breaks down compressive loading on rigid insulation, long-term creep behavior, and how these factors influence slab and foundation design. From there, the conversation expands into thermal bridging challenges in wood and concrete assemblies, and how innovative framing systems like EcoSmart and Tolko aim to improve performance. Along the way, they question a core assumption in residential construction: are we solving problems that don’t actually exist? The discussion highlights where engineering matters—and where it may be overkill. And in true UnBuild It fashion, Steve closes things out with an unexpected design tangent involving beehives. Pete’s Resources: Compressive Creep Behavior of EPS Geofoam BSI-059: Slab Happy BSI-118: Concrete Solutions EcoSmart Studs Tolko Wall Framing
S1 · E151
March 5 · 29 min
151 - Where Matters: Climate
Climate drives building performance. In the first episode of a three-part series, Pete, Steve, and Jake explore why climate matters so much in building science. Steve kicks off the discussion with a simple analogy: Would you pack the same suitcase for Minneapolis in February, Honolulu in March, and New Orleans in July? Of course not. Buildings work the same way. Design decisions about insulation, vapor control, air barriers, and drying potential all depend on where the building lives. The conversation walks through how climate zones influence building enclosure strategy and why national research from the Building America program has shaped modern high-performance construction. And of course, no climate discussion would be complete without Joe Lstiburek’s “Perfect Wall,” one of the most influential concepts in applied building science. This is the first of three episodes exploring how location shapes building design. Next up: Site and Extreme Events. Pete’s Resources: Building America Solution Center – Climate search PNNL US Climate Map Guide BSC Enclosures That Work BSC BSI-001 The Perfect Wall
S1 · E150
February 19 · 41 min
150 - Social Media: The Best and Worst of Building Science
Is social media helping the building industry—or hurting it? Matt Risinger joins Jake and Steve as the Three Social Media Amigos to roast Pete, the resident social media skeptic, and unpack what online platforms really mean for builders, architects, and building science pros. The conversation draws a sharp line between the dark side of social media—misinformation, marketing noise, and ego-driven content—and its best potential: real information transfer, community, and better buildings through shared knowledge. It’s entertaining, honest, and occasionally brutal (especially for Pete), but it also raises serious questions about how we learn, teach, and influence in a digital world. The takeaway? Social media can either amplify expertise or dilute it. The difference comes down to intent, integrity, and how we use the tools. Pete’s Resources: Information Transfer in Social Media (ResearchGate) Matt Risinger – The Build Show Jake Bruton Steve Baczek Pete Yost
S1 · E149
February 5 · 34 min
149 - I’ll Tell You Where to Stick That Opinion
Who really matters most on a building project—and can the team actually work together? In this episode, the crew digs into the five “gears” of the building process: designers, builders, manufacturers, consultants, and building owners or users. The big question is whether any one of those gears is more important than the others—or whether good buildings only happen when they all mesh. Steve cuts straight to the chase, sharing how he really feels about consultants (that would be Pete) and, in particular, energy modelers. The discussion gets lively, honest, and occasionally spicy, but the takeaway is clear: the best-performing buildings come from integrated teams that respect each role and work together from the start. It’s a candid look at collaboration, friction, and why integrated design isn’t just a buzzword—it’s essential if you actually want buildings that perform as intended. Pete’s Resources: GBA Integrated Design WBDG Engage the Integrated Design Process BuildingGreen – Integrated Project Delivery GBA Residential Commissioning ORNL Free WUFI Versions
S1 · E148
January 22 · 35 min
148 - Dumb Ideas? Vented Crawlspaces & Over-Insulating Window Frames
Are vented crawlspaces really a bad idea—and can you actually over-insulate a window frame? The crew gets fired up tackling two topics that refuse to die in building science conversations. First up is crawlspaces. The boys dig into a bit of U.S. crawlspace history, what vented crawlspaces were originally intended to do, and why they so often fail to perform as hoped. They walk through what crawlspaces should and should not do, and why climate, moisture, and enclosure strategy matter far more than tradition. Then Steve takes the lead on one of his favorite “dumb ideas”: over-insulating window frames. While improving window performance absolutely matters, the discussion makes the case that, except in very cold climates, obsessing over frame insulation can introduce new water-management risks—and distract from much bigger thermal priorities elsewhere in the enclosure. Classic UnBuild It: strong opinions, real-world building science, and a reminder to focus effort where it actually moves the performance needle. Pete’s Resources: Building America Solution Center – Crawlspaces BSI-115: Crawlspaces – Either In or Out LSU La House Crawlspace GBA Q&A on Window Frame Insulation Pete Yost on Thermal Buck

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