The Force & Friction Podcast

Mike J Midgley

The Force & Friction Podcast, your go-to show for the latest GTM, RevOps, AI and Partnership Strategies, Discussions & Interviews

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20 episodes
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S7 · E2
Dec 4, 2025 · 43 min
The Ecosystem Engine: How to Turn Partnerships Into Your Fastest Growth Channel | Juhi Saha S7:E2
Send a text Welcome to the Force & Friction Podcast, where we break down what really moves the needle in GTM, RevOps, AI, partnerships, and SaaS growth. Today, we're talking about ecosystem-led growth and how to transform partnerships into your company's fastest-growing revenue engine. I'm joined by Juhi Saha, the CEO of Partner 1, a passionate, curious engineer who fell into partnerships and has now helped hundreds of companies, from high-growth startups to global giants like Microsoft, Intel, and Qualcomm scale through ecosystems. Juhi's approach is powerful because she bridges deep technical expertise with real-world go-to-market execution. From holding three patents on the battery-extending technology inside every mobile phone to orchestrating the first-ever real-time payment on the cloud, her career is a testament to the power of a systems-thinking mindset. She was also a key player as the VP of Partnerships at Clearbit during its acquisition by HubSpot, and she brings a battle-tested perspective on how to build partner programs with strategic intent. We get into the nuts and bolts of ecosystem-led growth, how to overcome the common fears that hold companies back, the playbook for building a partner program designed for a strategic exit, and why trust is becoming the most valuable currency in a world saturated with AI-generated noise. Here are the core areas we discuss in today's episode: 1. Ecosystem-Led Growth: Beyond One-to-One Combat 2. Overcoming the Fear: Trust is the Foundation 3. The Acquisition Playbook: Building with the End in Mind 4. The Engineer's Mindset: A Systems Approach to Partnerships 5. The Future: Consultancy-Led Selling and Flexible Ecosystems Final Thoughts: Juhi provides a clear, actionable blueprint for leveraging partnerships as a primary growth engine. Her engineer's mindset, combined with her extensive experience in the trenches, demystifies the world of ecosystem-led growth and offers a practical path forward. Her core message is a powerful one: in an increasingly noisy and commoditized world, the companies that win will be those that build on a foundation of trust, execute with strategic intent, and have the foresight to build flexible, resilient partner ecosystems. It's not about finding an easy button; it's about applying a rigorous, systems-based approach to building a network that can withstand the inevitable shocks of the market and drive sustainable, long-term growth. Learn more at www.forceandfrictionpodcast.com
S7 · E1
Dec 1, 2025 · 39 min
Forged in Recession: The Unconventional Playbook for Agency Survival & Growth | Jon Tsourakis S7:E1
Send a text Welcome to the Force & Friction Podcast, where we break down what really moves the needle in GTM, RevOps, AI, partnerships, and SaaS growth. Today, we're talking to a true serial entrepreneur who was fired by his father, started an agency in the middle of a recession, and grew it into a three-time Inc. 500 company. I'm joined by Jon Tsourakis, President and Chief Revenue Officer at Ayova, to get his unconventional playbook for the agency world. Jon is a seasoned strategist who has built, scaled, and sold multiple businesses. What makes his story stand out is his ability to organize chaos and simplify the complex, a skill forged in the fires of economic downturns and high-stakes business environments. From navigating the brutal realities of the agency world, Jon's journey is a masterclass in resilience and straight-talking leadership. He cuts through the noise to deliver practical, battle-tested advice for agency owners who are tired of the same old playbook. We get into the terrifying state of the agency market, why most agencies are set to fail, the uncomfortable truths about success, and Jon's no-nonsense approach to sales, mergers, and building a team of "solutionists." Here are the core areas we discuss in today's episode: 1. The State of the Agency World: A Terrifying Convergence 2. The Uncomfortable Truth: Get Off Your Ass and Do Something 3. The "Solutionist" Mindset: Stop Pointing Out Problems 4. The Merger Playbook: A Strategy for Growth, Not a Magic Bullet 5. The Future of Agencies: Deep Specialization and Coaching Final Thoughts: Jon's story is a powerful reminder that there are no shortcuts to success. Forged in the crucible of a recession, his playbook is built on a foundation of hard work, uncomfortable truths, and a relentless focus on solving problems. His advice for agency owners is simple but not easy: stop looking for a magic bullet, be honest with yourself, and do the work that others are unwilling to do. Whether it's picking up the phone to make a cold call or having the courage to merge with a competitor, survival and growth in today's market demand a level of grit and resilience that can't be automated. As Jon makes clear, the agencies that thrive will be the ones that stop being order-takers and start being indispensable partners—the solutionists who can navigate chaos, push their clients to be better, and deliver real, measurable results. Learn more at www.forceandfrictionpodcast.com
S6 · E14
Nov 27, 2025 · 33 min
The Human Stack: Why AI Can't Replace Imagination in B2B Brand Building | Shawn Perritt S6:E14
Send a text Welcome to the Force & Friction Podcast, where we break down what really moves the needle in GTM, RevOps, AI, partnerships, and SaaS growth. Today, we're cutting through the noise on brand trust in the AI era and getting straight to why human creativity is more critical than ever. I'm joined by Shawn Perritt, the VP of Brand Strategy and Creative at Acquia, to break it down. With over 20 years of experience building brands for giants like Microsoft, IBM, and Coca-Cola, Shawn brings a no-nonsense philosophy he calls the "human stack." He argues that as AI makes everything look the same, the real differentiator for B2B brands is the ability to turn raw imagination into tangible impact. Shawn warns against the trap of "high-def sameness" and the brand trust erosion that comes from using AI as a simple cost-cutting tool. Instead, he advocates a "think first, prompt second" approach, where AI becomes a force multiplier for human curiosity and original thinking, not a replacement for it. We get into the two types of companies emerging in the AI era, the 95% problem in brand marketing, the real power of unmeasurable human connection, and Shawn's take on how original thinkers will secure the last unfair advantage. Here are the core areas we discuss in today's episode: 1. The AI Double-Edged Sword: Brand Trust on the Line 2. Two Types of Companies: Cost-Cutter vs. Force Multiplier 3. The Human Stack: Think First, Prompt Second 4. The 95% Problem: What's Memorable Isn't Always Measurable 5. The Last Unfair Advantage: The Original Thinker Final Thoughts: Shawn Perritt's human stack philosophy provides a straightforward, no-fluff counter to the hype and fear around AI. He makes it clear: technology is a tool, not a substitute for human imagination. The future of brand building won't be won by the most complex algorithms, but by the most curious and creative minds. By adopting a "think first, prompt second" approach, B2B brands can cut through the noise and build real connections. As AI advances, the companies that invest in their human stack, the curious, the creative, the original thinkers are the ones that will not only survive but dominate. The most disruptive thing a B2B brand can do right now is simple: be unapologetically human. Learn more at www.forceandfrictionpodcast.com
S6 · E13
Nov 24, 2025 · 42 min
Human Brands Win: The Anti-Playbook for Growth in an AI World | Lindsay Tjepkema S6:E13
Send a text Welcome to the Force & Friction Podcast, where we break down what really moves the needle in GTM, RevOps, AI, partnerships, and SaaS growth. Today, we are joined by Lindsay Tjepkema, founder of Human Brands Win and former VC-backed founder and CEO of Casted, the first B2B podcasting platform. After raising $30 million and scaling Casted to a 50-plus person team, Lindsay had a powerful realization: the industry's obsession with growth hacks and playbooks is a trap. She argues that the most sustainable path to growth is through authentic human connection, and she has developed a framework called the "Brave Mindset" to help brands do just that. We discuss the challenges of being a visionary founder, the importance of a human-centric approach in an AI world, and the practical steps that brands can take to build a more human identity. Here are the core areas we discuss in today's episode: 1. The Trap of Pattern Recognition: Why You Shouldn't Follow the Playbook 2. The Brave Mindset: A Framework for Human-Centric Growth 3. The Visionary's Dilemma: How to Get Buy-In for a Brave New World 4. The Human Brand in an AI World: Don't Automate Who You Are 5. The Responsibility of Leadership: Sharing Your Story Final Thoughts: Lindsay's message is a breath of fresh air in a world that is often too focused on the numbers, the playbooks, and the growth hacks. She reminds us that the most sustainable path to growth is through authentic human connection, and that the bravest thing we can do is to be ourselves. In an AI world, the human brand is not just a nice-to-have. It's a must-have. And it's the brands that embrace their humanity that will ultimately win. Learn more at www.forceandfrictionpodcast.com
S6 · E12
Nov 20, 2025 · 50 min
The Agency Revenue Architect: How SaaS GTM Principles Transform B2B Services | Kerry Curran S6:E12
Send a text Welcome to the Force & Friction Podcast, where we break down what really moves the needle in GTM, RevOps, AI, partnerships, and especially in and around the SaaS growth models. Today we continue our Revenue Architecture series and are joined by Kerry Curran, Chief Revenue Officer and founder of RBMA (Revenue-Based Marketing Advisors). With over 20 years of experience in the digital marketing and agency world, Kerry has made it her mission to transform agencies from a state of referral dependency to one of revenue predictability. She does this by applying proven B2B SaaS growth principles to the services sector, a space that has traditionally been stuck in a feast-or-famine cycle of client acquisition. We discuss the agency growth paradox, the challenges of applying SaaS frameworks to service-based businesses, and the critical role of a unified revenue architecture. Here are the core areas we discuss in today's episode: 1: The Agency Growth Paradox: Why Are Agencies the "Cobbler's Kids"? 2: The Revenue-Based Marketing Philosophy: Every Dollar Should Drive Revenue 3: Applying SaaS Frameworks to the Service World: The Bowtie and the ICP 4: The Challenge of Selling a "Squishy" Solution 5: The Unified Revenue Team: Breaking Down the Silos Final Thoughts Kerry Curran's insights are a powerful wake-up call for the agency world. For too long, agencies have been stuck in a reactive, referral-based growth model that is simply not sustainable in today's fast-moving business world. By applying the principles of SaaS GTM and revenue architecture, agencies can create a more predictable, scalable, and profitable business. It's not an easy transition, but as Kerry argues, it's an essential one for any agency that wants to thrive in the years to come. Learn more at www.forceandfrictionpodcast.com
S6 · E11
Nov 17, 2025 · 46 min
The First 4 Seconds: How Charisma Kills the Value Disconnect | Bruce Scheer | S6 E11
Send a text Welcome to the Force & Friction Podcast, where we break down what really moves the needle in GTM, RevOps, AI, partnerships, and SaaS growth. Today, we're joined by Bruce Scheer, co-founder of ValuePros.io, a firm dedicated to helping revenue teams nail their story, prove their impact, and deliver buyer experiences that buyers love. With a mission to "inspire others to inspire others," Bruce brings a wealth of experience from working with some of the biggest names in the world, including Microsoft, SAP, and Tableau. We dive deep into the "value edge," the "charisma edge," and the "Brave" framework, and explore how to fix the value disconnect that is killing deals in today's fast-moving business world. Here are the core areas we discuss in today's episode: 1. The Value Disconnect: Why So Many Deals End in "No Deal" 2. The Charisma Edge: Showing Up On Purpose, With Presence, For Others 3. The BRAVE Framework: Five Levers for Building Your Charisma Edge 4. The First Four Seconds: The Power of the Halo Effect 5. The Future of Sales: The Buying Experience is Everything Final Thoughts: Bruce Scheer's insights are a powerful reminder that in the world of B2B sales, the human element is more important than ever. By focusing on value, charisma, and the buying experience, you can build stronger relationships with your customers, close more deals, and drive sustainable growth for your business. It's not about being the slickest salesperson or having the flashiest product. It's about showing up on purpose, with presence, for others. And that's a message that we can all take to heart. Check out more at Value Pros Website Connect with Bruce at https://www.linkedin.com/in/bscheer/ Learn more at www.forceandfrictionpodcast.com
S6 · E10
Nov 13, 2025 · 40 min
How Compound Learning Beats Linear Career Planning | James Hornick | S6 E10
Send a text Welcome to the Force & Friction Podcast, where we break down what really moves the needle in GTM, RevOps, AI, partnerships, and SaaS growth. Today, we are joined by James Hornick, former Chief Growth Officer at HireWell, quantitative options trader, sci-fi author, podcast host, and self-proclaimed number three ranked sarcastic commenter on LinkedIn. James brings a refreshingly honest and unconventional perspective to professional development. With a 20+ year career built on deliberately acquiring seemingly unrelated skills, he shares his philosophy of "compound learning" and why he believes it is the key to long-term success in a rapidly changing world. Here are the core areas we discuss in today's episode: 1. The Generalist Advantage: Why Diverse Skills Beat Deep Specialization 2. The Power of an Authentic Voice: Building a Brand Through Sarcasm and Storytelling 3. The Unexpected Synergy of Unrelated Skills: How Options Trading Made Me a Better Business Leader 4. The Future of Work in an AI World: Why Soft Skills Matter More Than Ever 5. The Unsexy Truth About Success: It's All About the Process Final Thoughts: James Hornick's career is a powerful testament to the power of compound learning. By embracing his curiosity, acquiring a diverse set of skills, and staying true to his authentic voice, he has built a career that is not only successful but also deeply fulfilling. His story is an inspiration for anyone who has ever felt like they don't fit into a traditional career path. It's a reminder that the most interesting and rewarding careers are often the ones that we create for ourselves. Learn more at www.forceandfrictionpodcast.com
S6 · E9
Nov 10, 2025 · 48 min
The GTM Doctor's Diagnosis: Why Your Strategy is Perfect But Your Execution is Killing You | Dinuka Wijesinghe | S6 E9
Send a text Welcome to the Force & Friction Podcast, where we break down what really moves the needle in GTM, RevOps, AI, partnerships, and SaaS growth. Today, we're joined by Dinuka Wijesinghe, the GTM Doctor and founder of Serendum Strategies. With a PhD in astrophysics and six years of experience mastering go-to-market at scale at Google, Dinuka brings a unique blend of academic rigor and practical, in-the-trenches experience. He shares his core thesis: when it comes to go-to-market, execution matters even more than strategy. We dive deep into why even the most brilliant strategies fail, the critical difference between companies that execute well and those that don't, and the lessons startups can learn from giants like Google. Here are the core areas we discuss in today's episode: 1. The Technical Founder's Dilemma: Building a Product vs. Building a Business 2. The Perils of Disconnecting from the Market: VCs vs. Customers 3. Strategy vs. Execution: Where the Go-to-Market Game is Won and Lost 4. The Power of ICP Profiling: A Data-Driven Approach to Go-to-Market 5. The Three Pillars of Entrepreneurial Survival: Pain, Uncertainty, and Failure Final Thoughts: Dinuka Wijesinghe's insights are a masterclass in the art and science of go-to-market. His emphasis on execution over strategy, his data-driven approach to ICP profiling, and his candid assessment of the realities of entrepreneurial life provide a powerful and practical guide for any founder or business leader looking to build a successful and sustainable company. Where we are all faced with constant change and uncertainty, his message is clear: the companies that will win are those that can execute with clarity, consistency, and a relentless focus on the customer. Learn more at www.forceandfrictionpodcast.com
S6 · E8
Nov 6, 2025 · 47 min
APAC CSM of the Year Reveals: How to Fix the Sales-CS Handoff That's Killing Your Growth | S6: E8 - Lorenzo Serva
Send a text In this episode of the Force & Friction podcast, we're joined by Lorenzo Serva, Senior Manager of Customer Success at Dynatrace and recognised as the APAC CSM of the Year. With over a decade of experience leading CS teams across Australia, New Zealand, ASEAN, and India, Lorenzo shares his expert insights on one of the most critical and often broken processes in SaaS: the handoff from sales to customer success. We explore why this handoff is so prone to failure, the unique challenges and opportunities in the APAC region, and the non-negotiables for building a high-performing, customer-centric CS team. Here are the core areas we discuss in today's episode: 1. The Broken Sales-to-CS Handoff: A Crisis of Fragmentation and Misalignment 2. The Partner Ecosystem: A Double-Edged Sword in the APAC Handoff 3. Beyond the Playbook: Adapting CS Strategies for the Diverse APAC Market 4. From Hope to Certainty: The Power of Data-Driven CS Leadership 5. The Blueprint for a High-Performing CS Team: Alignment and a Customer-Centric Journey Final Thoughts: Lorenzo Serva's insights provide a powerful roadmap for any organization looking to elevate its customer success function. His emphasis on fixing the foundational sales-to-CS handoff, adapting to diverse market dynamics, leveraging data for proactive engagement, and building a truly aligned and customer-centric team are essential principles for success in the modern SaaS landscape. In a world of recurring revenue, the conversation doesn't end at the sale, it evolves. As Lorenzo makes clear, a high-performing CS team is the engine that drives that evolution, ensuring sustainable growth and long-term customer relationships. Learn more at www.forceandfrictionpodcast.com
S6 · E7
Nov 3, 2025 · 39 min
How One Founder Built the GTM Movement That Changed Everything | Jared Robin S6:E7
Send a text Welcome to the Force & Friction Podcast, where we break down what really moves the needle in GTM, RevOps, AI, partnerships, and SaaS growth. Today, we're diving deep into community-led growth and movement building with Jared Robin, the co-founder and CEO of RevGenius. Jared has built something truly remarkable, growing RevGenius from zero to nearly 60,000 members over the past four and a half years, creating the largest and most influential GTM community in the world. What makes Jared's story compelling isn't just the numbers, it's his philosophy of building something different, not better, and proving that community-first GTM strategies can drive real business outcomes. From having negative money in his bank account during COVID to building the world's largest GTM community, Jared's journey embodies the raw reality of the founder experience. His insights on audience-led growth, movement building, and the importance of validation before building have shaped how modern founders approach GTM strategy. We explore why being different beats being better, how to build an audience before a product, the unfiltered truth about the founder journey, and Jared's predictions for the future of GTM in an AI-native world. Here are the core areas we discuss in today's episode: 1. The Founder Journey: Fear, Failure, and Finding Your Path 2. Different vs. Better: The Category Creation Imperative 3. Audience-Led Growth: Validation Before Building 4. From Community to Movement: Building Something Bigger Than a Product 5. AI and the Human Soul: The Future of GTM Final Thoughts: Jared's journey from negative bank balance to building the world's largest GTM community offers a roadmap for modern founders. His philosophy can be distilled into a few core principles: Accept that you have no idea what you're doing, and embrace humility earlier. Build as little as possible and validate with real people before investing resources. Focus on being different, not better, and create your own category instead of fighting for scraps. Build your audience before your product, establishing trust and distribution as your unfair advantage. And remember that common sense and human connection come before tactics and scale. The future of GTM belongs to founders who can build movements, not just products. Those who understand that audience-led growth isn't a tactic, it's a fundamental shift in how you approach building a business. And those who recognize that in an increasingly AI-powered world, your ability to connect authentically with people's souls becomes your most valuable competitive advantage. As Jared demonstrates through RevGenius, when you combine category creation, audience-led validation, and authentic movement building, you don't just build a successful business, you change an entire industry. Learn more at www.forceandfrictionpodcast.com
S6 · E6
Oct 30, 2025 · 34 min
SPICED Secrets: How Marketing Ops Masters Revenue Architecture | David Howard S6:E6
Send a text Welcome to another episode in our Revenue Architecture series on the Force & Friction Podcast, where we break down what really moves the needle in GTM, RevOps, AI, partnerships, and SaaS growth. Today, we're diving deep into the SPICED model and how marketing ops can master this framework with David Howard, Head of Marketing at Agentic Partner Group. David brings over 15 years of B2B SaaS marketing and demand generation expertise to our conversation, but what makes his perspective unique is his operational mindset. He describes himself as someone who brings "structure to order chaos", and in today's world of marketing complexity, that's exactly what we need. Based in San Francisco and working with AI-centric startups, David has witnessed firsthand how the Silicon Valley landscape has evolved post COVID, from labor market changes to the integration of AI in go-to-market strategies. As a certified Winning by Design Revenue Architect, he's passionate about implementing frameworks like SPICED that create scalable, repeatable processes. In this episode, we explore how SPICED transforms traditional marketing qualification, the power of the bowtie model over funnels, and how AI is revolutionizing the way we approach discovery and prospect research. David shares practical insights on instrumentation, sales and marketing alignment, and why GTM engineering is the future of revenue operations. Here are the core areas we discuss in today's episode: 1. From Chaos to Order: The Marketing Operations Philosophy 2. The Bowtie Revolution: Why Funnels Are Dead for SaaS 3. SPICED as Universal Language: Beyond Sales into Marketing Ops 4. AI-Powered SPICED: Research Before the Call 5. GTM Engineering: The Future of Revenue Operations Final Thoughts David leaves us with a vision of the future where GTM engineering becomes pervasive across organizations. "We'll get wider and wider acceptance outside of you know, winning by design, savvy, demand gen people of the idea of go to, you know, go-to-market engineering. That's going to be more pervasive. It's going to broaden out of the marketing department, and we're just going to see organizations thinking more and more in terms of that, that framework." His insight emphasizes that successful revenue generation requires the same systematic, engineering-minded approach that has transformed marketing operations, with frameworks like SPICED serving as the common language that enables this transformation across entire organizations. Learn more at www.forceandfrictionpodcast.com
S6 · E5
Oct 27, 2025 · 45 min
Revenue Architecture: Engineering Growth with the Mathematical Model | Derek Sather S6:E5
Send a text Welcome back to our Revenue Architecture series on the Force & Friction Podcast, where we break down what really moves the needle in GTM, RevOps, AI, partnerships, and SaaS growth. Today, we have an exceptionally special guest for a deep dive into the Mathematical Model and revenue architecture as a whole with Derek Sather. What makes Derek's story compelling is his transformation from watching brilliant companies fail because revenue was treated like magic, not science, to becoming an MIT-educated systems thinker who co-created the framework that makes revenue predictable. Derek's track record speaks for itself: helping companies scale from 25 million to a billion ARR, again and again, using mathematical precision instead of guesswork. In our conversation, we explore why small changes create massive impacts while large investments yield minimal results, the counterintuitive nature of nonlinear systems, and how the Mathematical Model enables companies to engineer growth rather than hope for it. Here are the core areas we discuss in today's episode: 1: From Linear Thinking Addiction to Systems Engineering 2: The Compound Multiplication Magic: Why 10% Becomes 100% 3: The One-Round Game vs. Infinite Game Dynamic 4: The Segmentation Imperative: Why Averages Kill Insights 5: Beauty in Simplicity: Why Complex Systems Need Simple Visuals Final Thoughts Derek leaves us with a powerful insight about the resource allocation mistake that kills growth potential. "Most software organizations, from a go-to-market standpoint, significantly overfund acquisition, and significantly underfund expansion... keeping your existing customer and expanding is so much more efficient. Of course it is, but let's actually get the right resources there... we really want to look at recurring revenue equals recurring impact." His final message emphasizes that mathematical precision isn't just about optimization—it's about understanding where to invest for maximum return, recognizing that the infinite game of retention and expansion often delivers better ROI than the one-round game of acquisition. The Mathematical Model transforms revenue from guesswork into engineering, from hoping for growth to systematically creating it. As Derek demonstrates, when you understand the nonlinear relationships that govern recurring revenue businesses, you can achieve exponential results through marginal gains rather than massive investments. The future belongs to leaders who can think in systems, optimize for compound effects, and engineer growth with mathematical precision rather than linear intuition. Learn more at www.forceandfrictionpodcast.com
S6 · E4
Oct 23, 2025 · 36 min
From Diplomat to CCO: Mastering International GTM Expansion | Andrea Maurieres S6:E4
Send a text Welcome to Season 6 of the Force & Friction Podcast, where we break down what really moves the needle in GTM, RevOps, AI, partnerships, and SaaS growth. Today, we're exploring international market expansion and building revenue teams across continents with Andrea Maurieres. Her origin story begins with an incredible opportunity: convincing US tech companies to open offices in France while stationed in New York during the city's transformation into a tech hub. This diplomatic background gave her a unique perspective on international business development, but the transition to tech executive required strategic reinvention through an MBA and hands-on experience across diverse markets. We explore her 80-20 framework for international expansion, why you should start with "playground" markets, the critical importance of local presence versus remote operations, and her insights on building revenue teams across different company stages and cultural contexts. Here are the core areas we discuss in today's episode: 1: The Diplomat's Advantage: From Embassies to Startups 2: The 80-20 International Expansion Framework 3. Playground Markets: The Strategic Advantage of Starting Small 4. Stage-Appropriate Strategies: Why One Size Doesn't Fit All 5. The Future of Sales: Human Touch in an AI World Final Thoughts: Andrea leaves us with powerful insights about the intersection of international expansion and female leadership. "Too often, I'm the only woman in the room, and the higher we get, the more lonely we are. And I see something now, so I'm 40, I have a family. And I see a lot of women, stepping down, at my age... a product would be good if it's diverse, and it needs to be built by a diverse team. And a diverse team is gender, is age, is racial." Her final message emphasizes that international expansion success requires diverse perspectives and that supporting female leadership isn't just about equality, it's about building better products and strategies through diverse thinking. International expansion isn't just about scaling revenue—it's about building global capabilities while maintaining local relevance. As Andrea demonstrates, success comes from combining systematic frameworks with cultural humility, starting small to learn big, and recognizing that the skills needed for international success often come from unexpected backgrounds. The future belongs to leaders who can navigate complexity with both strategic thinking and cultural intelligence, whether they started in embassies or startups. Learn more at www.forceandfrictionpodcast.com
S6 · E3
Oct 20, 2025 · 36 min
Sales Training is Dead: How One CEO Disrupted Her $10M Business to Build an AI-Native Revenue Engine | Laura Keith S6:E3
Send a text Welcome to the Force & Friction Podcast, where we break down what really moves the needle in GTM, RevOps, AI, partnerships, and SaaS growth. Today, we're exploring the death of traditional sales training and the rise of AI-native sales performance with Laura Keith. What makes Laura's story compelling isn't just the courage to disrupt a successful business, but the customer insight that sparked the transformation. When a trusted customer told her to "stop selling me training when I don't know whether I've got a sales training problem," it triggered a fundamental shift from asking "how do you train reps to perform better?" to "how do we help reps to close more deals?" We explore why traditional sales training is dead, how AI is transforming sales performance, the critical importance of customer feedback loops, and Laura's predictions for the future of sales technology and human capability Here are the core areas we discuss in today's episode: 1: The Customer Feedback Catalyst: When Truth Disrupts Success 2: The Death of Traditional Sales Training: Why the Old Model is Broken 3. AI-Native Performance: Meeting Reps Where They Are 4. Product-Led Customer Discovery: Building What Customers Actually Want 5. The Future of Sales: Human Touch in an AI World Final Thoughts: Laura leaves us with practical wisdom about building sustainable success while maintaining personal boundaries. "It's not easy. It's not, you can't have it all. Create clear boundaries, know what's important to you, and protect that time. And build networks and communities and advisors, I think, are the key." Her final insight reminds us that professional success must be balanced with personal sustainability, and that building strong networks and communities is essential for long-term career growth. The death of traditional sales training doesn't mean the end of sales development, it means the beginning of a more intelligent, personalized, and effective approach. As Laura demonstrates, when you combine AI-native technology with deep customer understanding and human-centered design, you can create performance platforms that actually help reps close more deals rather than just completing more training modules. The future belongs to organizations that can diagnose before they prescribe, personalize at scale, and use technology to enhance rather than replace human capability. Learn more at www.forceandfrictionpodcast.com
S6 · E2
Oct 16, 2025 · 46 min
GTM Engineering Revolution: Micro-Relevance Over Mass Personalization | Michael Saruggia S6:E2
Send a text Welcome to the Force & Friction Podcast, where we break down what really moves the needle in GTM, RevOps, AI, partnerships, and SaaS growth. Today, we're diving deep into the rise of GTM engineering and how AI is transforming revenue ops with Michael Saruggia. Michael is one of the world's leading GTM engineer advisors, author of "The GTM Engineer," and architect of a movement that's fundamentally changing how companies scale revenue. What makes Michael's approach revolutionary is his philosophy of micro-relevance over mass personalization, a strategic shift that's redefining how companies think about automation and human connection in their go-to-market motions. His origin story begins at the intersection of AI, technology, and business ROI, where he discovered that with "just a little bit of automation," he could outperform entire SDR teams. This wasn't about replacing humans, it was about augmenting their capabilities and unlocking time for what matters most: actual selling. We explore why GTM engineering is here to stay, how it differs from traditional RevOps, the critical importance of activation over signals, and why most companies are thinking about Clay and automation completely wrong. Here are the core areas we discuss in today's episode: 1: The Automation Misconception: Augmentation, Not Replacement 2: Micro-Relevance: The Strategic Alternative to Mass Personalization 3. GTM Engineering vs. RevOps: The Activation Difference 4. The Company Stage Reality: When GTM Engineering Actually Makes Sense 5. The Clay Complexity Paradox: Why One Person Should Touch the Platform Final Thoughts: Michael leaves us with a powerful framework for thinking about GTM engineering ROI and implementation. "The biggest unlock is the time SDRs invest in making the list... I've seen people twice doubling the number of sales touches that they do per day on outreach, creating a better list. But it's very simple. One is, you just wake up and you prospect, and in the other, you're lost." His final insight emphasizes that GTM engineering success isn't measured by the sophistication of the automation, it's measured by how much more effective it makes your human teams. The GTM engineering revolution isn't about replacing human connection with technology, it's about using technology to enable more meaningful human connections at scale. As Michael demonstrates, when you focus on micro-relevance over mass personalization, activation over signals, and augmentation over replacement, automation becomes a force multiplier for revenue teams rather than a replacement for them. The future belongs to companies that can master this balance, using GTM engineering to unlock their teams' potential rather than trying to engineer their teams away. Learn more at www.forceandfrictionpodcast.com
S6 · E1
Oct 13, 2025 · 43 min
Scaling Human Connection: How Tech Enables Better EA Relationships | Paige McPheely S5:E12
Send a text Welcome to the Force & Friction Podcast, where we break down what really moves the needle in GTM, partnerships, leadership, and specifically SaaS growth. Today, we're exploring how to scale human connection in a tech-driven world and redefine leadership on your own terms with Paige McPheely. We explore how she's built Base around the fascinating paradox of using technology to scale human connection rather than replace it, why the Executive Assistant (EA) leader relationship is the most intimate professional relationship, and her predictions for the future of delegation and outsourcing in leadership. Here are the core areas we discuss in today's episode: 1: The Adversity-to-Opportunity Pivot: Building from Necessity 2: The Chemistry Factor: Why EA Matching is More Art Than Science 3. Human-First Technology: Using Tech to Enable, Not Replace 4. Beyond Work-Life Balance: The Integration Fallacy 5. The Delegation Revolution: Building Your Personal Support Army Final Thoughts: Paige leaves us with a powerful insight about what separates transactional task completion from transformational support. "When we see a lot of clients that come to us, and they're like, please, I just need somebody to tell me what to do. Like, please come and boss me around, and, like, build all the systems, and just tell me what to do. And when those people come to us, we're like, yes, we got you, we got you! We could do that all day long." Her final message emphasizes that the best EA relationships aren't about task delegation, they're about finding someone who can think strategically, anticipate needs, and provide the kind of support that gives leaders "oxygen in their helmet" to focus on what matters most. The future of leadership support isn't about replacing human connection with technology, it's about using technology to create deeper, more meaningful professional relationships that enable both leaders and assistants to do their best work. As Paige demonstrates, when you put humans first and use technology as an enabler, you can scale intimacy and connection in ways that seemed impossible just a few years ago. Learn more at www.forceandfrictionpodcast.com
S5 · E14
Oct 9, 2025 · 54 min
From Stage to Sales: Why Great Salespeople Are Made, Not Born | Brad Parker S5:E11
Send a text Welcome to the Force & Friction Podcast, where we break down what really moves the needle in GTM, sales, RevOps, AI, and partnerships. Today, we're diving into the art of storytelling in sales and what it takes to survive 25 years of constantly resetting targets with Brad Parker. We explore how his acting background shaped his approach to storytelling in sales, why discovery is the foundation of every great story, and his controversial take on whether great salespeople are born or made through deliberate practice and coaching. Here are the core areas we discuss in today's episode: 1: The Acting Advantage: Why Performance Skills Transfer to Sales 2: Discovery as the Foundation: You Can't Tell Stories Without Understanding 3. The Emotional-Rational Bridge: Making Decisions Feel Right 4. The Great Debate: Natural Born vs. Trained Salespeople 5. Responsibility Over Accountability: The Hiring Secret Brad leaves us with a powerful reminder about the mindset that separates great salespeople from the rest. "I'm really trying to figure out if somebody's got that fire in their belly, you know, that desire to be the best, with or without support, with or without training. I'm going to get there, Brad, you know, you might be able to help me get there faster, but it's gonna happen." His final insight emphasizes that while skills can be taught and processes can be learned, the internal drive for excellence and self-improvement cannot be coached, it must come from within. The journey from stage to sales reveals that great salespeople aren't born with supernatural powers—they're made through deliberate practice, deep customer understanding, and an unshakeable commitment to personal responsibility. As Brad demonstrates, whether you come from acting, sports, or any other background, the fundamentals of storytelling, resilience, and genuine customer connection remain the same. The question isn't whether you're naturally gifted, it's whether you're willing to do the work to become great. Learn more at www.forceandfrictionpodcast.com
S5 · E13
Oct 6, 2025 · 46 min
The Anti-MQL Revolution: How Variable Comp and Revenue Team Alignment Drive 10x Demand Gen Results | Irina Jordan S5:E10
Send a text Welcome to the Force & Friction Podcast, where we break down what really moves the needle in GTM, RevOps, AI, partnerships, and especially SaaS growth. Today, we're diving into how to build demand gen that actually drives revenue with Irina Jordan. Irina is Head of Demand Gen at Chowly, a leading restaurant growth platform trusted by over 17,000 restaurants nationwide. But what makes Irina fascinating isn't just her role, it's her revolutionary approach to demand gen that has the entire marketing community talking. We explore why she publicly declares that MQLs are "lazy," how she's pioneered variable compensation tied to SQLs, and why reporting to a Chief Revenue Officer as one unified revenue team transforms everything about demand generation strategy and execution. Here are the core areas we discuss in today's episode: 1: The MQL Death Sentence: Why Marketing's Favorite Metric is "Lazy" 2: Variable Comp Revolution: Putting Your Money Where Your Metrics Are 3. The Revenue Team Unification: Breaking Down Silos Through Structure 4. Bowtie Mastery: Demand Gen Across the Complete Customer Journey 5. AI-Era Adaptation: Fundamentals Over Panic in the GEO Revolution As Irina demonstrates, when you align compensation with revenue outcomes, structure teams around shared goals, and focus on the complete customer journey rather than isolated metrics, demand generation transforms from a cost center into a true revenue driver. In an AI-driven world where traditional tactics are evolving rapidly, this foundation of alignment and accountability becomes even more critical for sustainable growth. Learn more at www.forceandfrictionpodcast.com
S5 · E12
Sep 30, 2025 · 38 min
SaaS Pricing Optimization: The Discounting Challenge | Krzysztof Szyszkiewicz S5:E12
Send a text Today, we're tackling "The Discounting Challenge" with Krzysztof Szyszkiewicz, founder of Valueships and one of the world's leading SaaS pricing consultants. This is Part 3 of our comprehensive series, and if you haven't watched Part 1: The Value Challenge or Part 2: The Price Setting Challenge We highly recommend starting with htese earlier episodes as this series builds momentum across all three episodes. This final installment focuses on the shocking reality of how much money companies are literally throwing away through discounting. What makes this episode particularly eye-opening is Krzysztof's revelation of "unconscious discounting", where companies give away too much at the same price rather than explicit percentage discounts. His data reveals that some clients have seen up to 40% of their margin leaking through suboptimal discounting practices, with one client losing almost $140K (MRR) in monthly recurring revenue through discount leakage alone. We explore the brutal mathematics of discounting (a 15% discount requires 60% more sales just to break even), the counterintuitive correlation between discounting and churn, and the systematic approach to "sealing" discount leakage without destroying your customer base. Here are the core areas we discuss in today's episode: 1. The Shocking Mathematics of Discounting: Why 15% = 60% More Sales 2. Unconscious Discounting: The Hidden Revenue Killer 3. The 40% Margin Leak: Real Data from Client Engagements 4. The Discounting-Churn Paradox: Why Discounts Increase Customer Loss 5. The Discount Sealing Process: How to Fix It Without Losing 30% of Customers About This Series This concludes our comprehensive three-part SaaS Pricing Optimization series with Krzysztof Szyszkiewicz. Each episode tackled a specific pricing challenge that's costing SaaS companies millions in lost revenue: Part 1: The Value Challenge - Why companies hide their value and how to communicate profit effectively. • Part 2: The Price Setting Challenge - How to set prices based on willingness to pay rather than guesswork. Part 3: The Discounting Challenge (This Episode) - Why discounting is killing margins and how to optimize realized prices. The data shows most companies have at least 10% untapped revenue potential. The question is: which challenge will you tackle first? Don't let another month go by with unconscious discounting bleeding your MRR.The frameworks and methodologies shared across these three episodes provide a complete roadmap for transforming pricing from a painful, ad-hoc task into a systematic growth engine that compounds returns over time. Learn more at www.forceandfrictionpodcast.com
S5 · E11
Sep 30, 2025 · 36 min
SaaS Pricing Optimization: The Price Setting Challenge | Krzysztof Szyszkiewicz S5:E11
Send a text Today, we're tackling "The Price Setting Challenge" with Krzysztof Szyszkiewicz, founder of Valueships and one of the world's leading SaaS pricing consultants. If you haven't watched Part 1: The Value Challenge, we recommend starting there as this series builds momentum across all three episodes. This second installment focuses on why you're probably selling yourself short, a bold claim backed by shocking data from Krzysztof's consulting practice. What makes this episode particularly eye-opening is Krzysztof's revelation that in 90-95% of their last 100 client engagements, they decided to increase the average price. This isn't coincidence, it's systematic underpricing driven by two critical factors: founders who don't want price to be a barrier between customers and their product, and companies treating pricing as a one-off task rather than a strategic process. We explore the Van Westendorp price sensitivity meter, the four-quadrant feature matrix that reveals why most SaaS companies are losing margin on premium buyers and conversion on budget buyers, and the car analogy that transforms how you think about feature packaging. Here are the core areas we discuss in today's episode: 1. The 90-95% Problem: Why Most SaaS Companies Systematically Underprice 2. From One-Off Task to Strategic Process: The Pricing Transformation 3. The Van Westendorp Price Sensitivity Meter: Research-Driven Pricing 4. The Four-Quadrant Feature Matrix: Core, Differentiable, Add-On, and Trash Land 5. The Testing and Migration Strategy: Solving the Over-Engineering Problem About This Series This is Part 2 of our comprehensive three-part SaaS Pricing Optimization series with Krzysztof Szyszkiewicz. Each episode tackles a specific pricing challenge that's costing SaaS companies millions in lost revenue: Each episode tackles a specific pricing challenge that's costing SaaS companies millions in lost revenue: Part 1: The Value Challenge - Why companies hide their value and how to communicate profit effectively. Part 2: The Price Setting Challenge (This Episode) - How to set prices based on willingness to pay rather than guesswork. Part 3: The Discounting Challenge - Why discounting is killing margins and how to optimize realized prices. Don't miss Part 3 where we'll reveal exactly how much revenue is leaking through discounting, including one particular statistic about how much more you need to sell to recover from specific discount levels that will fundamentally change how you think about pricing negotiations. Learn more at www.forceandfrictionpodcast.com

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