The Deconstructionists

Ep. 247 - Dr. Janet Kellogg Ray "Fish With Feet: Human Evolution and the Image of God" pt. 2

In Part Two of our conversation with Dr. Janet Kellogg, we explore the growing loss of trust in medicine and science—and what happens when that distrust opens the door to misinformation. From unsupported claims connecting Tylenol to autism to the broader consequences of rejecting medical expertise, we examine why these ideas gain traction, how fear can travel faster than evidence, and why simply telling people they’re wrong rarely rebuilds trust. We also discuss the need to hold institutions accountable for genuine failures without abandoning science altogether—and what honesty, humility, and transparency might contribute to restoring public confidence. New Podcast Coming Soon! Our new podcast, This Is Who We Become, explores the moments that divide a life into “before” and “after”—and the people we become because of them. Visit https://thisiswhowebecome.com and join the mailing list for upcoming guest announcements, launch updates, and more. Connect with The Deconstructionists: Website: https://thedeconstructionists.com Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Ep. 246 - Dr. Janet Kellogg Ray "Fish With Feet: Human Evolution and the Image of God" pt. 1

What if accepting evolution didn’t require abandoning faith? Dr. Janet Kellogg Ray returns to The Deconstructionists to talk about her new book, Fish with Feet: Human Evolution and the Image of God. Janet is a science educator, author, and Jesus follower who was herself raised within creationism. In her latest book, she tackles one of the most persistent points of tension between modern science and certain expressions of Christianity: human evolution. In Part One of our conversation, we dig into the remarkable story of how life developed on Earth and eventually produced us—from our ancient aquatic ancestors to primates, early humans, and Homo sapiens. Along the way, Janet helps unpack some of the evidence for evolution found in fossils, anatomy, genetics, and even the strange imperfections built into our own bodies. We also explore why human evolution remains particularly difficult for many Christians to accept, why familiar objections like “If humans evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?” misunderstand how evolution actually works, and what happens when the scientific evidence appears to conflict with the way we were taught to read Scripture. And underneath it all is a much bigger question: If human beings are part of the evolutionary story of life on Earth, what does it actually mean to say that we are made in the image of God? That’s where things get really interesting. This is Part One of our conversation with Dr. Janet Kellogg Ray. Fish with Feet: Human Evolution and the Image of God is available from Eerdmans Publishing and wherever books are sold. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

What Comes Next: The Future of The Deconstructionists

After more than ten years of conversations about faith, doubt, theology, identity, and the questions that reshape us, The Deconstructionists is entering its final chapter. In this special update, John reflects on how the show began, the philosophy that guided it, what has changed in the deconstruction space over the past decade, and why the time feels right to bring the weekly podcast to a close at the end of 2026. But this isn’t goodbye just yet. There are still new guests and conversations ahead, the full archive will remain available, and the door will always be open for future special episodes. John also introduces what comes next: Who We Become, a new podcast exploring the moments that divide our lives into before and after — and the people we become on the other side. Learn more and join the mailing list at thisiswhowebecome.com. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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Ep. 245 - Rev. Sally Miller "The Modern Chaplain" pt. 2

What does it really mean to be present with another person? In Part Two of John's conversation with Rev. Sally Pelinka Miller, the discussion moves beyond defining modern chaplaincy and into the heart of spiritual care itself. Rather than offering easy answers or trying to fix people's pain, today's chaplains often practice something much more difficult: accompanying people through uncertainty, grief, trauma, and profound life transitions. In a culture that values certainty, productivity, and quick solutions, this conversation explores the transformative power of simply showing up. Rev. Sally shares how contemporary chaplains understand their work—not as experts dispensing wisdom, but as compassionate companions helping people navigate some of life's most sacred and challenging moments. Together, John and Rev. Sally discuss: Why presence can be more powerful than having the right words. What chaplains can teach all of us about listening. The role of empathy, curiosity, and accompaniment in spiritual care. How grief, suffering, and meaning intersect. Why human connection is becoming increasingly valuable in an age shaped by technology and AI. What it looks like to care for people across different faiths, beliefs, and worldviews. How we can all become better companions to those who are hurting. Whether you're a person of faith, someone deconstructing long-held beliefs, or simply interested in becoming more present for the people around you, this conversation offers practical wisdom and a hopeful vision of what compassionate care can look like. Guest: Rev. Sally Pelinka Miller, MDiv, MA (DMin candidate), is a Board Certified Chaplain (APC), an ACPE Certified Educator, and Manager of Clinical Pastoral Education at The Johns Hopkins Hospital. She is the author of the forthcoming New Images of Spiritual Care, which highlights the diverse voices and innovative practices shaping contemporary chaplaincy. Follow The Deconstructionists If you enjoyed this conversation, we'd love your support. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts, leave a rating or review, and share this episode with someone who might find it meaningful. Follow us on social media for episode clips, behind-the-scenes content, and updates on upcoming conversations exploring faith, doubt, history, psychology, and what it means to be human. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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Ep. 244 - Rev. Sally Miller "The Modern Chaplain" pt. 1

What comes to mind when you hear the word "chaplain"? For many of us, it's an older Christian minister carrying a Bible into a hospital room to pray with patients. But what if that image no longer reflects the reality of modern spiritual care? In Part One of this conversation, John sits down with Rev. Sally Pelinka Miller, board-certified chaplain, ACPE Certified Educator, and Manager of Clinical Pastoral Education at Johns Hopkins Hospital, to explore how chaplaincy has transformed over the past several decades. Today's chaplains come from an extraordinary range of religious and philosophical traditions—including Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Humanism, Unitarian Universalism, and more. Rather than focusing on converting people or providing religious answers, modern spiritual care emphasizes presence, curiosity, accompaniment, and compassionate listening during life's most vulnerable moments. Together, John and Rev. Sally discuss: Why most of us have an outdated picture of what a chaplain is. The fascinating history and evolution of chaplaincy. What board-certified chaplains actually do. Why spiritual care is about far more than religion. How hospitals care for patients with widely different beliefs and worldviews. The shift from authority and hierarchy toward relationship and mutuality. Why "being present" can sometimes be more healing than having the right answers. Whether you're deeply religious, spiritually curious, deconstructing your faith, or simply interested in what it means to care well for another human being, this conversation offers a fresh perspective on one of the most misunderstood professions in healthcare. Guest: Rev. Sally Pelinka Miller, MDiv, MA (DMin candidate) is a Board Certified Chaplain (APC), an ACPE Certified Educator, and serves as Manager of Clinical Pastoral Education at The Johns Hopkins Hospital. She is currently writing New Images of Spiritual Care, a book exploring the diverse voices and evolving practices shaping modern chaplaincy. Follow The Deconstructionists If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a friend. Your support helps more people discover thoughtful conversations about faith, doubt, spirituality, history, and the questions that matter most. Follow us on social media for episode clips, behind-the-scenes content, and updates on upcoming interviews. Website: www.thedecontructionists.org Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheDeconstructionistsPodcast Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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Ep. 243 - Jacob & Esau: The Misunderstood Brothers

What if one of the Bible's most famous stories isn't really about a hero and a villain? For centuries, many of us have been taught to read the story of Jacob and Esau through a familiar lens: Jacob, despite his flaws, is God's chosen son, while Esau becomes little more than the cautionary tale of the brother who "despised his birthright." But what happens when we slow down, revisit the text, and listen to voices from within the Jewish tradition? In this episode of The Deconstructionists, John explores one of Genesis' most fascinating—and misunderstood—relationships. Drawing on insights from Rabbi Jonathan Sacks in Essays on Ethics and Not in God's Name, as well as reflections from Rabbi David Wolpe, this conversation examines how the story of Jacob and Esau challenges simplistic readings of Scripture and invites us into a richer understanding of reconciliation, identity, and what it means to become fully human. Rather than reading Genesis as a collection of moral fables with obvious heroes and villains, we consider the possibility that the biblical authors were doing something far more profound: exposing the cycles of sibling rivalry, fear, favoritism, and violence that have echoed throughout human history. Along the way, we explore why Jacob spends so much of his life wrestling—not only with God, but with himself—and why his eventual reunion with Esau may be one of the most emotionally powerful moments in all of Scripture. Could it be that the real transformation wasn't simply Jacob becoming Israel... but two brothers finally seeing one another clearly? In This Episode Why Jacob and Esau are far more complex than they're often portrayed The ancient Near Eastern world behind the Genesis narrative Why Jewish interpretations often differ from traditional Christian readings What Rabbi Jonathan Sacks means when he argues that Genesis repeatedly challenges sibling rivalry How Not in God's Name reframes stories of election and chosenness The surprising significance of Jacob's wrestling match before meeting Esau Why Jacob sends gifts ahead of himself—and whether they are simply a bribe or something deeper Rabbi David Wolpe's reflection on mirrors in the ancient world, and how Jacob and Esau may have seen themselves in one another after decades apart The emotional power of forgiveness and reconciliation in Genesis 33 What Jacob and Esau still have to teach us about family, conflict, identity, and grace today Books Referenced Rabbi Jonathan Sacks — Essays on Ethics Rabbi Jonathan Sacks — Not in God's Name: Confronting Religious Violence Additional insights discussed from the teachings of Rabbi David Wolpe A Few Questions We Explore Was Jacob always intended to be understood as the hero of this story? What does it really mean to be "chosen" in Genesis? Why does the Bible spend so much time telling stories about rival siblings? What changes when we read Genesis through the lens of Jewish scholarship? Is reconciliation ever possible without first confronting who we've become? Like the music? Check out Forrest Clay anywhere you find your music! The song featured on this episode is "Does God" off his Recover EP. Love the work we're doing?! Support us by joining the Patreon family here: https://www.patreon.com/c/thedeconstructionistspodcast/membership Stay up on all things Deconstructionists here: www.thedeconstructionists.org Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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Ep. 242 - Shelby Forsythia "Grief, Healing, and the Stories We Carry" (Part 2)

In Part 2 of our conversation with grief coach, author, and podcaster Shelby Forsythia, we dive deeper into her brand-new book, Of Course I'm Here Right Now. Most of us want to help when someone we love is grieving. The problem is that we've never been taught how. Instead, we fall back on clichés, platitudes, and well-meaning advice that often leaves grieving people feeling even more isolated. Shelby argues that what grieving people need most isn't fixing, solving, or explaining. They need presence. In this episode, we explore why grief makes people uncomfortable, how our culture's lack of grief literacy creates secondary losses, and the surprisingly simple phrases that can help someone feel seen and supported during life's hardest moments. Whether you've experienced profound loss yourself or want to be a better support for someone who has, this conversation offers practical wisdom, compassion, and a fresh way of understanding grief. In This Episode Why grief isn't a problem to solve The hidden ways people become isolated after loss What NOT to say to someone who is grieving Why "at least..." statements often do more harm than good The difference between helping and fixing How grief changes friendships and relationships The role of presence versus advice The importance of grief literacy in modern culture Practical phrases anyone can use to support a grieving friend What inspired Shelby to write Of Course I'm Here Right Now Why grief can become one of life's greatest teachers About Shelby Forsythia Shelby Forsythia is a grief coach, author, podcast host, and founder of Life After Loss Academy. After losing her mother at a young age, she became what she calls a "student of grief," dedicating her work to helping people navigate life after devastating loss. She is the author of Permission to Grieve, Your Grief, Your Way, and her newest book, Of Course I'm Here Right Now: Three Actually Helpful Things to Say to Someone Grieving. Connect with Shelby Website: Shelby Forsythia Official Website Book: Of Course I'm Here Right Now Podcast: Coming Back Podcast Archive Support The Deconstructionists If you're enjoying these conversations, consider supporting our newly relaunched Patreon. Members receive: Ad-free episodes Extended conversations and bonus content Video versions of select interviews Early access to new episodes Exclusive Patreon-only content Join us at: The Deconstructionists Patreon Follow The Deconstructionists Website: www.thedeconstructionsits.org Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/thedeconstructionistspodcast If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps others discover the show and supports independent creators. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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Ep. 241 - Shelby Forsythia "Grief, Healing, and the Stories We Carry" (Part 1)

What happens when grief changes not just your life… but your identity? In part one of this conversation, John sits down with author, grief guide, and speaker Shelby Forsythia to discuss her new book and the complicated, deeply human realities of loss, healing, and personal transformation. Together, they explore the myths we inherit about grief, why so many people feel pressure to “move on” too quickly, and how grief can quietly reshape our relationships, spirituality, and sense of self. Rather than offering clichés or easy answers, Shelby approaches grief with honesty, compassion, and a willingness to sit with uncertainty — something longtime listeners of The Deconstructionists will likely find familiar. Topics include: Why grief is not a linear process The cultural pressure to “get over” loss How grief impacts identity and spirituality Emotional honesty versus performative healing Why many people feel isolated in their pain The connection between grief and personal growth Learning to live alongside loss rather than “defeating” it Shelby’s work offers a compassionate alternative to the toxic positivity and oversimplified narratives that often surround grief conversations. If this conversation resonates with you, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share the episode with someone who may need it. Support The Deconstructionists We’ve officially relaunched our Patreon with new perks and content tiers. Supporters now get access to: Full ad-free episodes Bonus content Exclusive educational materials Video versions of interviews Community discussions And more content coming soon You can support the show and join the community here: [Insert Patreon Link] Connect With Shelby Forsythia https://www.shelbyforsythia.com/ Connect With The Deconstructionists Website: www.thedeconstructionsts.org Patreon: If you enjoy the show, leaving a rating or review really does help independent podcasts continue to grow. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Ep. 240 - Dualism — The Battle Between Spirit and Matter

What if one of the most influential ideas in modern Christianity… didn’t actually come from Jesus? In this episode of The Deconstructionists Podcast, we explore the history and impact of dualism — the ancient belief that spirit is good while matter, bodies, and the physical world are somehow lesser, corrupt, or evil. From Plato and Greek philosophy to Gnosticism and modern evangelical culture, we trace how dualistic thinking quietly shaped theology, sexuality, purity culture, views of the body, the afterlife, politics, and even the way many Christians understand salvation itself. We ask questions like: Why have so many Christians viewed the body with suspicion? Did the Bible actually teach a sharp divide between “spiritual” and “physical”? How did Greek philosophy influence early Christianity? Why do some forms of Christianity focus so heavily on “escaping the world”? What happens when faith becomes disconnected from embodiment, justice, and humanity? And what might a more holistic, integrated spirituality look like? Along the way, we discuss: Plato and the influence of Greek metaphysics Gnosticism and the material/spiritual divide The Hebrew understanding of embodied humanity Paul’s writings and common misunderstandings about “flesh” Heaven, resurrection, and the renewal of creation Purity culture and body shame The lasting influence of dualism on modern evangelicalism Deconstruction, embodiment, and recovering wholeness This conversation explores how ideas developed historically — and how those ideas still shape people’s lives today, often in ways they don’t even realize. Whether you come from an evangelical background, are in the middle of deconstruction, or are simply interested in theology, philosophy, and history, this episode offers a deeper look at one of the hidden frameworks underneath modern Christianity. Topics Covered Dualism in Christianity Plato and Greek philosophy Gnosticism Embodiment and spirituality Resurrection theology Purity culture Biblical anthropology Evangelical theology Deconstruction and reconstruction Mind/body divide Spiritual formation Support The Deconstructionists If you enjoy the show and want to support independent conversations like this, consider joining us on Patreon for: Ad-free episodes Bonus content Extended interviews Educational deep dives Community discussions Link: https://www.patreon.com/cw/TheDeconstructionistsPodcast You can also grab merch and find all of our links here: www.thedeconstructionists.org Follow The Deconstructionists Instagram Facebook YouTube If this episode resonated with you, leaving a review and sharing the episode helps more than you know. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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Ep. 239 - Dr. Bart Ehrman "Love Thy Stranger" pt. 2

In Part 2 of our conversation, Bart Ehrman returns to discuss his latest book, Love Thy Stranger, and the lasting impact Jesus’ teachings had on moral thought in the Western world. We continue exploring how ideas surrounding compassion, forgiveness, charity, and care for outsiders emerged within early Christianity — while also wrestling with the ways institutions and political movements have often failed to embody those same values. In this episode we discuss: The tension between the teachings of Jesus and modern political Christianity Immigration, nationalism, and “loving your neighbor” How moral frameworks evolve over time The role Christianity played in shaping Western ethics Historical misunderstandings about the ancient world Why empathy and human dignity remain central themes in Jesus’ message Be sure to check out Dr. Ehrman’s new book, Love Thy Stranger, available now wherever books are sold. Guest Bio Bart Ehrman is a New Testament scholar, historian of early Christianity, and the author of numerous bestselling books including Misquoting Jesus, Heaven and Hell, Jesus Interrupted, and How Jesus Became God. He is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Support The Deconstructionists If you enjoy the show, there are several ways to support us: Join our Patreon for ad-free episodes, bonus content, educational videos, study guides, and more Check out our merch store for brand-new designs and returning favorites Leave a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform Share the episode with a friend More info at: www.thedeconstructionsts.org Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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Ep. 238 - Dr. Bart Ehrman "Love Thy Stranger" pt. 1

Dr. Bart Ehrman – Love Thy Stranger: How the Teachings of Jesus Transformed the Moral Conscience of the West (Part 1) In Part 1 of our conversation with renowned New Testament scholar and historian Dr. Bart Ehrman, we dive into his latest book, "Love Thy Stranger: How the Teachings of Jesus Transformed the Moral Conscience of the West". For centuries, people have debated whether Christianity has been a force for compassion or division. But what if one of the most radical moral ideas in human history came directly from the teachings of Jesus himself? In this episode, Bart explores how concepts like caring for the poor, loving enemies, and extending compassion beyond one’s tribe were not common moral assumptions in the ancient world—and how the teachings attributed to Jesus helped reshape Western moral imagination over time. We also discuss: What morality looked like in the ancient Greco-Roman world Why compassion was often viewed as weakness in antiquity The historical context surrounding Jesus’ teachings The difference between Jesus’ message and later Christian institutions Whether modern secular morality still carries the fingerprints of Christianity Why many people misunderstand the historical Jesus The tension between the teachings of Jesus and modern Christian nationalism How history complicates simplistic narratives about religion’s role in society As always, this conversation approaches faith, history, and culture through the lens of scholarship, curiosity, and honest dialogue. About Dr. Bart Ehrman Dr. Bart Ehrman is one of the world’s leading scholars on the New Testament and early Christianity. He is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and the author of numerous bestselling books including: "Misquoting Jesus" "Jesus, Interrupted" "Heaven and Hell" "Armageddon" His work focuses on the historical Jesus, the development of early Christianity, biblical manuscripts, and how religious ideas evolve over time. Support The Deconstructionists If you enjoy conversations like this and want to help support independent podcasts and educational content, there are several great ways to support the show: Join Our Patreon We recently relaunched our Patreon with brand-new content and community features including: Ad-free episodes Bonus episodes Educational videos and study guides Monthly book club Members-only discussions and chat Exclusive behind-the-scenes content 👉 Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thedeconstructionists Merch Store We also launched brand-new merch designs along with returning fan favorites. 👉 Merch Store: https://thedeconstructionists.printify.me/ Leave a Review One of the easiest free ways to support the show is by leaving a positive review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It genuinely helps more people discover the podcast. Connect With Us Website: https://www.thedeconstructionists.org Bart Ehrman Links Official Website: https://www.bartehrman.com Books & Courses: https://www.bartehrman.com/books/ Blog: https://ehrmanblog.org Thank you for listening to The Deconstructionists Podcast. Part 2 of our conversation with Dr. Bart Ehrman will be available soon. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Ep. 237 - Lillian Daniels "Failure, Accountability & the Future of the Church" pt. 2

In Part 2 of our conversation with Lillian Daniel, we move deeper into the tensions at the heart of her story—and the bigger questions it raises for the modern church. If Part 1 explored what happened, this episode asks what it means. We talk about accountability, institutional systems, and whether the church is actually capable of handling failure in a way that leads to healing rather than harm. 📚 About Lillian Daniel Lillian Daniel is an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ and currently serves as a Conference Minister, overseeing churches and clergy across Michigan. She has taught preaching at institutions including Yale Divinity School and the University of Chicago, and is the author of multiple books on faith, ministry, and the evolving role of the church. Her latest book, Defrocked: Good News from a Bad Pastor for a Better Church, explores her own experience with discipline, failure, and restoration—and what it reveals about the systems meant to hold leaders accountable. 🔗 Stay Connected • Website: https://www.thedeconstructionists.org • Patreon: Support the show and get ad-free, extended interviews: https://www.patreon.com/cw/TheDeconstructionistsPodcast • Follow along for more conversations with scholars, authors, and thinkers exploring faith, doubt, and everything in between Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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Ep. 236 - Lillian Daniel "Defrocked: Good News from a Bad Pastor for a Better Church" pt. 1

📝 Episode Summary Drawing from her new book, Defrocked: Good News from a Bad Pastor for a Better Church, Lillian shares her journey through ministry, the unexpected challenges she encountered, and the moments that forced her to rethink long-held assumptions about leadership, faith, and belonging. This episode is an honest look at what happens when certainty begins to crack—and why that might not be the end of faith, but the beginning of something more real. 📚 About the Book Defrocked: Good News from a Bad Pastor for a Better Church A candid and often humorous reflection on ministry, failure, and the possibility of a more honest and compassionate church. Lillian Daniel offers a rare behind-the-scenes look at pastoral life—challenging assumptions while pointing toward a healthier future. 👤 About the Guest Lillian Daniel is a United Church of Christ minister, author, and speaker known for her wit, honesty, and thoughtful critique of modern church culture. Her work often explores faith, doubt, leadership, and the evolving role of the church in contemporary life. 🔗 Resources & Links • Find Lillian’s book wherever books are sold • Learn more about her work and writing: www.lilliandaniel.com 🎙️ Support the Show If you enjoyed this episode, you can support The Deconstructionists Podcast by: • Joining our Patreon for ad-free episodes, bonus content, and educational videos: https://www.patreon.com/cw/TheDeconstructionistsPodcast • Checking out our merch store (ships worldwide): https://thedeconstructionists.printify.me/ • Leaving a rating & review—it really helps others find the show Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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Ep. 235 - Dr. Cristy Carr "Reclaiming the Forgotten Self" pt. 2

What happens when the version of you that survived… isn’t the version of you that’s whole? In Part 2 of our conversation with Dr. Cristy Carr, we move deeper—beyond awareness and into the work of healing. Together, we explore what it looks like to reconnect with the parts of ourselves that were silenced, shaped, or suppressed by trauma, religious systems, and the need to belong. This episode isn’t about quick fixes or easy answers. It’s about the slow, often uncomfortable process of becoming whole again. Dr. Cristy Carr is a therapist, speaker, and author of The Forgotten Self. Her work focuses on trauma, identity formation, and helping individuals reconnect with their authentic selves—especially those navigating faith transitions and deconstruction. ❤️ Support The Show If you found this conversation meaningful, there are a few ways to support The Deconstructionists Podcast: • ⭐ Leave a rating & review • 🔁 Share this episode with someone who might need it • 👕 Check out our merch store (ships worldwide!) www.thedeconstructionists.org • 🎥 Join our Patreon for ad-free episodes, exclusive content, and educational deep dives: 👉 https://www.patreon.com/cw/TheDeconstructionistsPodcast Special music provided by: Forrest Clay from the Recover EP. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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Ep. 234 - Dr. Cristy Carr "The Forgotten Self" pt. 1

🧭 Episode Summary Who were you… before you were told who to be? For many of us—especially those shaped by religious systems—identity isn’t something we discovered. It’s something we inherited. Beliefs. Roles. Expectations. All layered over time until the line between who we are and who we were told to be becomes hard to see. In Part 1 of this two-part conversation, we sit down with Cristy S. Carr to explore the core ideas behind her book The Forgotten Self—and what it means to lose connection with ourselves in the pursuit of certainty, belonging, and faithfulness. This episode is less about what we believe… and more about who we’ve become in the process of believing. 📚 About the Guest Cristy S. Carr is an author, theologian, and speaker whose work focuses on identity, spirituality, and the process of reconnecting with the self. Her book The Forgotten Self explores how we lose touch with who we are—and how we begin to find our way back. Grab a copy of her new book: https://www.amazon.com/Forgotten-Self-Remember-Who-Truly/dp/B0G51WPJZN 🔥 Support the Show If you want to support The Deconstructionists Podcast: 🎥 Join our Patreon Get access to exclusive content, deep-dive educational videos, and bonus conversations 👉 https://www.patreon.com/c/TheDeconstructionistsPodcast 👕 Check out our merch store New designs + classic favorites 🌎 Ships worldwide www.thedeconstructionsts.org ⭐ Leave a review It helps more people find the show Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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Ep. 233 - Violence and the Bible

Episode: Violence and the Bible – What Do We Do With It? 🧭 Episode Summary Violence is everywhere in the Bible—and for many, it’s one of the most difficult aspects of scripture to reconcile with the idea of a loving God. In this episode, John explores one of the most pressing and personal questions facing modern readers of the Bible: What do we do with the violence in scripture—and what does it mean for us today? Prompted by a recent discussion group and unfolding global events, this episode wrestles with: • Whether violence is ever justified • The ethics of war, self-defense, and state power • How ancient texts have been used—and misused—to justify modern violence Rather than offering easy answers, this conversation leans into the tension, drawing on biblical scholarship, theology, and ethical philosophy to better understand what the Bible is—and what it is not. 📚 Scholars & Works Referenced 🧠 Foundational Biblical & Ethical Scholarship • Peter Enns — How the Bible Actually Works → Argues that the Bible reflects the perspectives of ancient people trying to understand God, rather than functioning as a rulebook dictated from heaven. • Greg Boyd — The Crucifixion of the Warrior God → Proposes that violent portrayals of God in the Old Testament are refracted through human understanding and ultimately point toward the nonviolent revelation of God in Jesus. • Eric A. Seibert — Disturbing Divine Behavior → Explores troubling depictions of God in scripture and argues that not all portrayals of God in the Bible should be accepted as morally authoritative. • John J. Collins — Does the Bible Justify Violence? → Examines how biblical texts have historically been used to justify violence and urges careful, contextual interpretation. • Miroslav Volf — Exclusion and Embrace → Reflects on violence, justice, and reconciliation in light of human conflict and the Christian call to forgiveness. 🧠 Ethical & Philosophical Perspectives • Jonathan Sacks — Essays on Ethics → Engages deeply with moral questions surrounding violence, responsibility, and the misuse of religious texts. • Stanley Hauerwas — The Peaceable Kingdom → Advocates for a distinctly Christian ethic rooted in nonviolence and the teachings of Jesus. • Reinhold Niebuhr — Moral Man and Immoral Society → Explores the tension between personal ethics and collective political responsibility, including the justification of force. 💬 Join the Conversation What do you think? Is violence ever justified? How do you interpret the difficult passages in scripture? Join us on social or continue the conversation on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/c/TheDeconstructionistsPodcast Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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Ep. 232 - Dr. Michelle Keener "Comfort in the Ashes" pt. 2

The Deconstructionists Podcast Guest: Dr. Michelle Keener In Part 2 of our conversation with Dr. Michelle Keener, we go deeper into the themes of her book, Comfort in the Ashes: Explorations in the Book of Job to Support Trauma Survivors, and what it means to engage scripture after certainty has cracked. If Part 1 explored how harmful interpretations take root, this episode focuses on what comes after—especially for those navigating trauma, deconstruction, and the loss of familiar frameworks. In this episode, we discuss: How trauma reshapes identity, faith, and one’s image of God Why grief, anger, and protest are not spiritual failures How Job’s refusal to accept easy answers can be a model for honesty What it looks like to reconstruct meaning without rushing toward certainty Dr. Keener brings both scholarly depth and deep compassion to this conversation, offering language and insight for experiences many people struggle to name. If you’ve ever been told your pain needed a theological explanation… If you’ve been pressured to “trust God” instead of being heard… Or if you’re learning how to hold faith with open hands— This conversation is for you. Guest Bio: Dr. Michelle Keener is a scholar, writer, and educator whose work centers on biblical interpretation, trauma-informed theology, and care for those harmed by religious systems. Her book Comfort in the Ashes explores how the Book of Job can be reclaimed as a companion for trauma survivors rather than a weapon used against them. https://www.michellekeener.com/ For all things Deconstructionists: www.thedeconstructionsts.org Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheDeconstructionistsPodcast Special Music Provided By: Forrest Clay from his Recover EP. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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Ep. 231 - Dr. Michelle Keener "Comfort in the Ashes" pt. 1

In this first part of our conversation, we’re joined by Dr. Michelle Keener, author of Comfort in the Ashes: Explorations in the Book of Job to Support Trauma Survivors. The Book of Job is often cited in conversations about suffering—but just as often, it’s been used to minimize pain, rush people toward answers, or reinforce harmful ideas about God, blame, and endurance. In Comfort in the Ashes, Dr. Keener offers a different approach: one that reads Job through the lens of trauma, care, and lived human experience. In Part 1, we focus on foundations: How the Book of Job has traditionally been taught—and why those interpretations often fail trauma survivors The difference between theological explanation and pastoral care Why certainty can feel safer than honesty, even when it causes harm How questioning inherited beliefs can be an act of survival, not rebellion This conversation isn’t about solving suffering or defending doctrine. It’s about slowing down, listening well, and making room for pain without trying to explain it away. Guest Bio: Dr. Michelle Keener is a scholar, writer, and educator whose work centers on biblical interpretation, trauma-informed theology, and care for those harmed by religious systems. Her book Comfort in the Ashes explores how the Book of Job can be reclaimed as a companion for trauma survivors rather than a weapon used against them. https://www.michellekeener.com/ For all things Deconstructionists: www.thedeconstructionsts.org Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheDeconstructionistsPodcast Special Music Provided By: Forrest Clay from his Recover EP. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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Ep. 230 - John Dominic Crossan & Michael Okinczyc-Cruz "Jesus and Justice" pt. 2

In Part Two of our conversation with John Dominic Crossan and Michael Okinczyc-Cruz, we move from historical foundations to present-day consequences. Once Jesus is understood within the realities of Roman imperial power, the implications become unavoidable — especially in a moment when Christianity in the United States is increasingly entangled with political authority, violence, and domination. In this episode, we explore: The meaning of the “Kingdom of God” in contrast to imperial power Nonviolence, resistance, and the cost of discipleship How Christianity shifted from challenging empire to aligning with it The difference between domination systems and distributive justice Why these ancient tensions feel so familiar today This isn’t about telling listeners what to believe politically. It’s about asking whether Christianity still resembles the movement it began as — or whether comfort and power have rewritten the story. Why This Conversation Matters Now The questions raised in this episode aren’t abstract or theoretical. They echo loudly in today’s debates about nationalism, violence, faith, and identity in the United States. By grounding the conversation in history, Crossan and Okinczyc-Cruz offer listeners tools — not talking points — to think critically about how faith operates in the real world. Continue the Conversation If this episode resonated with you, we encourage you to explore the works linked above and join us for ongoing discussions at www.thedeconstructionsts.org where you can join our Patreon, read our blog, and listen to our entire back catalogue of over 200 episodes! Special music provide by: Forrest Clay from his Recover EP. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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Ep. 229 - John Dominic Crossan & Michael Okinczyc-Cruz "Jesus and Justice" pt. 1

In this episode of The Deconstructionists Podcast, we’re joined by John Dominic Crossan and Michael Okinczyc-Cruz for the first part of a wide-ranging conversation about Jesus, empire, and why historical context matters now more than ever. As religion, power, and nationalism continue to collide in the United States, this conversation feels remarkably timely — not because it’s reacting to current events, but because it’s rooted deeply in history. In Part One, we focus on setting the foundation: The world of the Roman Empire and how it shaped early Christianity Why Jesus must be understood as a first-century Jewish figure under imperial occupation What happens when modern readers remove Jesus from his historical context Why asking historical questions doesn’t weaken faith — but often deepens it This episode invites listeners to take the Bible seriously enough to let it challenge modern assumptions about power, violence, and faithfulness. About Our Guests John Dominic Crossan is one of the most influential New Testament scholars of the last fifty years. A historian of early Christianity and co-founder of the Jesus Seminar, Crossan has written extensively on the historical Jesus, the Roman Empire, and the political implications of early Christian theology. Michael Okinczyc-Cruz is a scholar whose work focuses on empire, power, and the intersection of theology, politics, and economic systems. His research explores how religious ideas function in real historical and social contexts — especially under conditions of domination. Together, they bring historical rigor and moral clarity to questions that remain deeply relevant today. Featured Works & Links John Dominic Crossan Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography https://www.harpercollins.com/products/jesus-a-revolutionary-biography-john-dominic-crossan The Historical Jesus: The Life of a Mediterranean Jewish Peasant https://www.harpercollins.com/products/the-historical-jesus-john-dominic-crossan God and Empire: Jesus Against Rome, Then and Now https://www.harpercollins.com/products/god-and-empire-john-dominic-crossan How to Read the Bible and Still Be a Christian https://www.harpercollins.com/products/how-to-read-the-bible-and-still-be-a-christian-john-dominic-crossan Michael Okinczyc-Cruz The Politics of Discipleship (with John Dominic Crossan) https://www.fortresspress.com/store/productgroup/553/The-Politics-of-Discipleship Special Music Provided by: Forrest Clay from his Recover EP. For all things Deconstructionists go to www.thedeconstructionists.org Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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