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The Chad & Cheese Podcast

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Everything people and workforce—recruiting, marketing, technology, talent management, and workforce economics—delivered with biting sarcasm and unapologetic snark. Industry misfits Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman bring their no-holds-barred opinions to dissect news, trends, and the occasional dumpster fire. If you’re a hiring company, staffing firm, or vendor looking for insights (and a thick skin), these two won’t just tell you what’s happening—they’ll tell you why you’re probably doing it wrong. Buckle up, buttercup.

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  • 27 episodes
  • Avg 34 min
  • English

Episodes 27

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  • Tuesday · 36 min

    Slop, Supply & the Search Process: Ben Zweig Breaks Down the Data

    Slop, Supply & the Search Process On this episode of The Chad & Cheese Podcast, Joel and Chad sit down with Ben Zweig, CEO of Revelio Labs, economist, NYU Stern professor, and recovering quant who’s somehow raising three little girls while tracking the entire labor market. Ben walks them through Revelio’s new AI Labor Market Tracker—the data-driven, non-speculative look at how AI is actually reshaping work right now. They dig into the 28% drop in computer science majors, why companies that successfully adopt AI are growing headcount instead of cutting it, the massive friction AI is creating in the hiring process, and why 93% of the real change is happening inside jobs rather than between them. It’s economist brain meets HR reality, with just enough New York attitude and sleep-deprived honesty to keep it dangerous.

  • August 28 · 51 min

    Recruit Holdings' "Alleged" Cartel

    This week on The Chad and Cheese Podcast (dubbed HR’s most dangerous podcast), hosts Chad Sowash, JT O’Donnell, and Maureen "Mo" Wiley Clough break down the latest corporate absurdities, dystopian AI trends, and labor market nonsense. Episode Highlights: No Trust for AI: Humanoid Robots, digital AI twins and Amazon's last-mile automation. Corporate AI Disasters: Amazon's tokenmaxxing problems. Japan’s Big Staffing Cartel Raid: Recruits, Adecco, Manpower, and others are under investigation by the Japan Fair Trade Commission for alleged price-fixing. The Death of Tip Culture: A look at US restaurants ditching traditional tipping. Dolly Parton vs. Dark Trends: The gang pays respect to the late, great Dolly Parton. In stark contrast to her generosity, the hosts call out "bro-brand" Good Good Golf and Callaway over an appalling, tone-deaf advertisement featuring a founder pushing a woman to the ground.

  • August 25 · 35 min

    SignalLabs + BrassRing = Signals of Attention

    On this installment of "HR's Most Dangerous Podcast," Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman grill Raj Ronanki, CEO of Signal Labs, on one of the weirdest M&A moves the HR tech space has seen in years. Guided by a childhood obsession with Star Trek, Raj has raised millions to build "systems of attention"—and then immediately used it to buy Brass Ring, an applicant tracking system older than half the engineers currently building LLMs. In a chaotic blend of 1980s comedy references, sci-fi philosophy, and corporate jargon, the boys attempt to figure out if Raj is an AI visionary or if he just bought a ghost ship because 65% of the Fortune 500 forgot to cancel their subscription. Key Highlights & Hot Takes: Spock, Utopia, and Green Aliens The "Nunya Business" Acquisition HR's Forgotten Invoices Interviewing Bots for Jobs Making Compliance Cool Again Tune in for the full episode as Chad and Joel try to decipher whether Signal Labs is building the future of work or just running a very expensive 1999 nostalgia trip!

  • August 21 · 1 hr 3 min

    Walmart Slumps, Workday Jumps & Indeed Marketing Chumps

    Live from a Portuguese bar annex, Chad and Joel crack open a cold cider and fire up "HR's Most Dangerous Podcast" to roast the absolute state of modern recruiting. Before tackling the tech industry's worst ideas, the boys review hostage-style movie clips, swap obscure band recommendations, and pitch a Spaceballs 2 sponsorship. The SaaS-pocalypse Comes for Workday: Private equity behemoth Silver Lake is eyeing a $51B buyout of Workday. Google's Resume Garbage Can: Leaked documents show Google DeepMind's AI screening tool is rejecting qualified applicants at random, forcing frustrated hiring managers to set up illegal human-only shortcuts around their own TA department. Gen Z's AI Penalty: Stanford research shows a 19% drop in entry-level hiring for AI-exposed roles. Babysitting the Machine at Walmart: Store associates are now tasked with cleaning up after Walmart's AI. Indeed's Desperate Marketing Pivot: Indeed's CMO claims targeting passive job seekers at soccer matches is a "revolutionary" new strategy. Really? Chapters 00:00 - Intro and Episode Overview 03:45 - Review of the Odyssey and movie expectations 07:43 - Changes in media consumption and radio 09:54 - New music discoveries and bands 11:21 - Music show segment and shout outs 12:26 - TA20 awards and AI professionals recognition 13:25 - Upcoming events and travel plans 20:32 - Private equity buyout talks with Workday 21:50 - Implications of PE acquisition on Workday's culture and support 23:13 - The SAS apocalypse and AI's impact on SaaS companies 24:37 - Market valuation and PE acquisitions of software companies 28:38 - Google resume dumping and AI in HR 29:06 - Challenges of AI in recruitment and hiring processes 31:15 - The puppy analogy and AI's limitations 32:13 - The importance of human skills and adaptability 37:24 - AI's impact on youth employment and highly exposed occupations 40:00 - The need for experienced workers to train AI 41:32 - Future workforce and the importance of human skills 44:34 - Adapting to AI and the importance of continuous learning 46:35 - Walmart's AI implementation and employee trust issues 49:45 - The role of human nuance in AI and workplace tasks 52:57 - The importance of understanding complex tasks in AI deployment 54:29 - Indeed's new marketing strategy and market position 55:33 - Critique of Indeed's marketing and tech evolution 57:29 - Spaceballs 2 and industry humor 58:07 - Google and Indeed traffic decline signals 59:22 - The shift to old school marketing and candidate engagement 01:00:21 - The future of job search and AI-driven applications 01:01:18 - Humor and lighthearted closing remarks

  • August 18 · 40 min

    When AI Needs Humans with Sonja Breuer

    In this episode of The Chad & Cheese Podcast, hosts Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman sit down with Sonja Breuer, Senior Vice President of HR at Hamra Enterprises a powerhouse franchise group operating over 200 locations across Wendy’s, Panera Bread, and Noodles & Company. 💡 What You’ll Learn in This Episode: The “Easy Button” for Hiring: How custom AI bots (including a talking Frosty named Sam) drastically reduced candidate ghosting and eliminated scheduling headaches for restaurant managers. Slashing the Ad Budget: The secret behind leveraging evergreen ads and conversational tech to keep job board spending at a fraction of the budget. Daily Pay as a Game Changer: Why instant access to wages has become Hamra’s secret weapon for recruitment (and how it saved one employee's prom night!). Tech Meets Culture: Why Sonja—a self-proclaimed Gen X “human connection” person—believes automation doesn't replace empathy, but actually gives leaders the time to be more human. What’s Next for AI in HR: A sneak peek at how Hamra is using AI for company-wide internal communication and video-driven recruitment.

  • August 14 · 59 min

    ZipRecruiter Financial Gymnastics

    Get ready for a jam-packed episode of The Chad & Cheese Podcast as hosts Joel Cheesman, Chad Sowash, and Emi B serve up their trademark mix of industry news, corporate earnings, and unfiltered banter. The episode kicks off with personal updates and shout-outs, covering everything from Chad’s slippery "Charlie Brown" beach wipeout in Portugal to a Harvard report on workplace outcomes, the rise of late-night interviews for night owls. As the episode shifts into corporate strategy, the hosts put the latest financial filings and major market moves under the microscope. You will hear them break down the Q2 earnings, cost-cutting strategies, and future outlooks for ZipRecruiter, Recruit Holdings, and Indeed. The team then brings back their signature "Buy or Sell" segment to grade recent consolidation in the space, evaluating MetaView’s acquisition of Reval (and its autonomous coworker "fillmore"), CareerMinds picking up Jobrapido, and the big transition of a long-time leader at LinkUp. Finally, the episode tackles the serious side of hiring tech with a look at global regulatory compliance and vendor transparency involving Maki People, Mochi AI Assessments and Recruitics, before winding down with a nostalgic debate over the unexpected relaunch of MySpace. To find out who gets a "Buy," who gets a "Sell," and exactly why the hosts are skeptical of the latest AI trends, you will have to tune in to the full episode.

  • August 11 · 32 min

    Ageism, Algo-Bias, and Corp Naughtiness w/ Cassell Kaye

    Ageism is out in the open, AI is masking mass corporate cost-cutting, and 1 in 3 job postings might be completely fake. In this episode of The Chad & Cheese Podcast, 20-year HR executive Cassell Kaye from The Reframed Collective pulls back the curtain on a brutal modern job market. Drawing on her leadership experience at tech and entertainment giants like Disney, Yahoo, and Amazon, she exposes the calculated corporate math pushing older workers out, explaining why companies now treat discrimination lawsuits as just another line-item cost of doing business. Cassell also deconstructs the current tech hype, framing AI not as a revolutionary replacement for human workers, but as a convenient smokescreen for aggressive corporate cost-cutting and margin protection. She highlights how automated tracking systems scale existing biases at an unprecedented rate, creating a virtual trap for applicants where even opting out for a "human review" simply results in a resume disappearing into an ignored pile. Finally, the episode tackles the rise of the "ghost job" phenomenon, explaining the strategic corporate reasons behind the massive 2-million job gap between reported openings and actual hires. If you want to understand how the hiring game is truly rigged and how to navigate a system missing its old safety nets, you cannot miss this candid conversation. Chapters 00:00 - Introduction to Cassell and her background 01:56 - Cassell discusses ageism and workforce bias 04:08 - Impact of AI on layoffs and employment practices 05:54 - Legal risks and the role of government regulation 08:10 - The future of AI and its influence on workforce demographics 10:06 - Advice for workers over 50 facing layoffs 11:57 - The problem with ghost jobs and transparency 13:57 - The role of vendors and bias in AI systems 16:06 - Government actions and the regulation landscape 18:01 - The impact of AI on hiring processes and bias 20:00 - The political and legal challenges in regulating AI 22:07 - The lagging indicators in employment data 24:04 - The real state of the job market and ghost jobs 25:59 - The influence of corporate signaling and investor perceptions 28:03 - Automation, AI, and the future of talent acquisition 29:47 - The role of government and legal actions in employment law 31:57 - Final thoughts and where to follow Cassell Links https://www.youtube.com/@cassellkaye https://www.linkedin.com/in/cassell/ https://www.tiktok.com/@the.reframed.collective https://www.instagram.com/thereframedcollective/

  • August 7 · 59 min

    Indeed Pauses, Fiverr Falls & Rippling Ransacks

    The latest episode of The Chad & Cheese Podcast with Emi and Lieven is officially live, and it is a certified must-watch. In this episode, the crew dives straight into a massive legal showdown brewing in the tech world, breaking down the explosive trade secret drama between Rippling and Runlayer. They also discuss a massive $50M acquisition move by Deel involving Clarity to fight a terrifying new trend in hiring, begging the question: is big tech done buying smaller tools for good? The conversation takes a sharp turn into the ultimate AI casualties, analyzing how one freelance giant’s stock has cratered a staggering 94% since ChatGPT entered the chat. The team breaks down the absolute collapse of Fiverr and discusses why their desperate pivot to save the platform might already be too late. Meanwhile, they expose why AI adoption has completely stalled across Europe, how companies are fighting weak data foundations, and the massive compliance hurdles that are about to change the landscape for international employers.Finally, the bots are officially taking over, and the major job platforms are panicking. he hosts talk about how LinkedIn just quietly rolled out a brand-new button to fight the wave of artificial content taking over your feed, while Indeed was forced to hit the emergency brakes on their aggressive new automation feature after severe user backlash. Want to know what the crew really thinks about these massive shifts? Tune in to the full episode now on your favorite podcast platform or watch it on YouTube! Chapters 00:00 - Introduction and Episode Overview 01:14 - European Culture and Vacation Trends 03:26 - Review of the Odyssey Movie 04:45 - Discussion on AI in Entertainment and Media 07:14 - Controversies in FIFA and Sports Politics 09:18 - Belgian Football and World Cup Highlights 11:21 - Deep Fake Detection and HR Security 18:41 - Rippling and Deal Legal Drama 29:39 - Fiverr and AI Displacement of Freelance Work 38:33 - European AI Adoption and Cultural Barriers 49:32 - LinkedIn and Indeed AI Content and Automation 52:48 - Future of AI Regulation and Ethical Concerns

  • August 4 · 27 min

    90 Days Hired, They Stay a Year w/ Jolene Hostal

    In this episode, HR veteran Jolene Hostal joins Joel and Chad to discuss how a legacy brand like Stanley Steemer stays "young and vibrant" in a competitive labor market. Managing high-volume hiring for thousands of technicians across 57 corporate locations, Jolene breaks down how modern tech integrations, fast candidate screening, and a strong culture drive their talent acquisition strategy. Mobile-First High-Volume Hiring: Because candidates for cleaning technician roles are constantly on the move, Stanley Steemer uses Paradox’s chatbot ("Maria") to let applicants apply in 90 seconds or less. Open Architecture Tech Stack: Jolene explains choosing Dayforce as their HCM due to its strong API connections, allowing seamless integration with Paradox and background check partners like First Advantage. The "90-Day" Retention Milestone: Highlighting the physical demands of technician roles, Jolene notes that if a technician stays for 90 days, they almost always stay for a full year. Career Progression from the Trucks: The company boasts strong internal mobility—73% of company managers started out as service technicians, proving that entry-level roles can lead to long-term career paths. Keeping the Remote Workforce Connected: Field technicians receive job dispatches, safety updates, and communication through in-van tablets and driver safety monitoring systems.

  • July 31 · 1 hr 1 min

    LinkedIn Sloppin, Google's No Click AI Poppin', and OpenAI's Jail Breakin'

    Is LinkedIn turning into a bot-ridden wasteland? Is Google actively blowing up its own revenue model? And are AI agents already plotting their escape from human containment? The crew is back together, hot out of the chamber, to slice through corporate PR and tackle the messiest stories in tech and workplace culture. From outrageous ageism in the C-suite to the high-stakes risk of unchecked AI, Chad, JT, and Mo are serving up the unfettered truth with zero filters. Surveillance, Smoke, & Creepy Ray-Bans The $600K Employee Influencer Win Lattice CEO’s "Calcified" Slip-Up "Just because you can doesn't mean you should, is my theme for 2026 on this pod... You don't replace judgment and have AI do it." — JT O'Donnell LinkedIn: Sexy Bots & The King of Slop The Nano-Influencer Arbitrage. Google Search Enters Its Zero-Click Era Autonomous Bots & The AI Singularity "I'm going to tell you right now, if you're at a party and you're not at least asking Charney for his vape pen, you're wrong. Charney brings the best weed." — Chad Sowash Enjoy!

  • July 28 · 38 min

    Startup Nightmares w/ Kristy McCann

    On this week's The Chad & Cheese Podcast interview episode, Joel and Chad sit down with Kristy McCann founder, former CEO of Skill Cycle, and overall HR force of nature who proves the ultimate golden rule: Do NOT mess with HR. Ever wondered what a founder’s absolute worst nightmare looks like? Picture this: You bootstrap your HR tech startup, navigate COVID without losing your shirt, grow fourfold, and then win an "Opportunity Fund" competition. Sounds great, right? Except the folks writing the checks didn't just want a seat at the table they wanted to lock you out of the house, revalue your $30 million company down to $8 million, and suggest you replace your human coaching marketplace with an AI bot. In this wildly candid episode, Kristy spills all the tea (and Burger King) on: The Georgia Ambush VC Playbooks & "Pay-to-Play" RICO & Receipts It’s a cautionary tale full of red flags, "bipolar 5.5-sense" gut instincts, and a Masterclass in why discovery in a courtroom is a VC's absolute worst enemy. "You wanna fuck with me? Fine. Let's bring it out into a courtroom." — Kristy McCann Grab your popcorn, founders you’re going to want to take notes on this one.

  • July 24 · 58 min

    Indeed Terms, LinkedIn Ghosts, & Google Pitchforks

    The latest episode of The Chad & Cheese Podcast kicks off with hosts Joel Cheesman and Chad Sowash diving into a massive recap of the World Cup tournament, complete with a look at the spectacular multi-artist halftime show, light political jabs, a hilarious Taco Bell fast-food mishap, and a celebratory beer for a record-breaking Scottish runner. After sharing details on how you can score a free podcast t-shirt, the boys move straight into their high-stakes "Buy or Sell" segment, where they aggressively debate the business prospects of recent major industry acquisitions and funding rounds involving Signal Labs, BrassRing, Adzuna, JobLift, and the controversial candidate-pays model of Refer. The main events of the episode take an even sharper turn into major industry compliance, legal drama, and worker rights. First, Chad and Joel unleash a highly critical teardown of the brand-new terms of service rolling out from Indeed, exposing massive financial and legal implications for both employers and job seekers. Next, they tackle the legal spotlight hitting LinkedIn, debating whether a high-profile investigation by the Texas Attorney General is necessary platform accountability or just pure political theater. Finally, the hosts wrap up by throwing their support behind a massive internal worker movement at Google, analyzing whether a new 4,500-employee petition will actually force the tech giant's hand or simply stall out. Chapters 00:00 - Introduction and Episode Overview 00:33 - Travel and Cultural Observations from the World Cup 02:07 - US as a Host and International Perceptions 03:07 - Final World Cup Matches and Team Performances 04:20 - Analysis of England vs. Argentina and Paraguay vs. France 05:45 - Messi's Performance and the Final Match Insights 06:20 - Spain’s Defensive Mastery and Tournament Highlights 07:37 - Halftime Show and Cultural Impact 13:43 - History of Halftime Shows and Cultural Shifts 15:26 - Record-Breaking Mile Run and Celebrations 17:23 - Buy or Sell Segment: Signal Labs and Brass Ring 21:56 - Adzuna’s Acquisition of JobLift and Market Strategy 25:16 - Rise of Talent Marketplaces and New Funding 29:30 - Discussion on Company Buybacks, Severance, and Employee Rights 41:08 - Texas Investigation into LinkedIn Ghost Jobs 48:32 - Political Theater and Lawsuits in the Job Market 54:41 - Humor and Closing Remarks

  • July 21 · 31 min

    AI Takes The Boring Part w/ Adam Godson

    The TL;DR: What happens when HR tech's most prominent conversational AI platform gets swallowed by an enterprise titan? In this high-octane episode, Chad and Cheese sit down with Adam Godson—the newly crowned GM of Talent Acquisition Products at Workday—to dissect the aftermath of the Paradox acquisition. Forget standard corporate buzzwords; this is a raw look at how AI "agents" are systematically dismantling traditional software, why the SAS pricing model is officially on life support, and what it actually takes to survive the "SAS Apocalypse." The Death of the "Click-and-Scroll" ATS The "SAS Apocalypse" is Real Resumes are "Lousy" 2D Artifacts Recruiting is Splitting in Two "What you get rid of is the people that wish they were talking to candidates, but are clicking buttons in the system. And that's a good thing." — Adam Godson Why it matters: This episode serves as a blueprint for the next five years of recruitment tech. If you are still relying on legacy keywords, manual data entry, and traditional seat licenses, your strategy is already on borrowed time.

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