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The Adoption Files

Ande Stanley

The Adoption files seeks to provide a place for adoptees and allies to discuss the laws preventing adoptees from accessing their identities, and the emotional and physical challenges adoptees face in the process of dealing with the obstacles we face. We recognize the need to expose the problematic aspects of the adoption industry and the narrative they perpetuate. We will not only talk about the laws and the challenges they create, but also the ways that the mythology around adoption impacts the way we move through our lives, as adopted people and as mothers and other family members.

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21 episodes
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Avg 54 min
English

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Yesterday · 1 hr 9 min
Adoption Abolition: A Conversation
What does Adoption Abolition mean? Please join me and my guest Lorah Gerald as we talk about some of our thoughts on this topic. Lorah is a Baby Scoop Era, Domestic US adopted person. She can be found athttps://lorahgerald.com/ There are some statistics quoted in the episode that may be difficult to believe, and hard to find. This is because they change from year to year, and the way you input your query changes the results you will receive. I am going to just list some of the sources for information and you can go and check them out. Regarding the number of private infant adoptions in the United States per year-these numbers are not adequately captured, as reporting is uneven and not tracked in many locations. The best we can do is estimates based on different adoption organizations. This means the numbers can vary even in a single calendar year. The numbers also vary depending on whether you consider the sale of frozen embryos to be adoption, which legally is not considered adoption, even if there is zero genetic connection between the birthing person and the embryo. This is because an embryo is not a person. It is a tissue transfer. Unicefs reports on children in substitute care and on quality of life for children and families https://unioncitizenship.com/best-family-friendly-countries/ childbenefitstracker.org https://gitnux.org/current-foster-care-statistics/ World Population Review https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/best-countries-for-quality-of-life Scotland's baby boxes: https://www.mygov.scot/baby-box vs the US version, which is not a resource program: https://stopshbbnow.org/ The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health Thank you for listening!
Monday · 1 hr 6 min
Quality Counts: Early Connections and Big Questions; continuing the conversation on adoption and spiritual trauma
Please join Dani and I as we continue our conversation about adoption and spiritual trauma. We are using the book Holy Hurt: Spiritual Trauma and the Process of Healing by Hillary L McBride PhD as a scaffold for our conversation. Dani is a mother of loss to adoption, a writer, a homesteader and an advocate for the rights of mothers and adopted people. She can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy https://substack.com/@danijoy https://www.facebook.com/joyfuldj Holy Hurt https://www.hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health The host and their guest's opinions are just that, their opinions. The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional Thank you for listening!
September 21 · 55 min
Holding Space: Healing in Relationship
Please join Dani Joy and I as we keep working on exploring the spiritual trauma that is adoption! We are using the book Holy Hurt by Hillary L McBride, PhD as a scaffold for our conversation Dani Joy is a mother of loss to adoption, a homesteader, a writer and an ally. She can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy https://substack.com/@danijoy https://www.facebook.com/joyfuldj https://www.hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt https://health.clevelandclinic.org/grounding-techniques https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional Thank you for listening!
September 14 · 1 hr 3 min
Turning Towards the Pain: a Continuing Conversation on Spiritual Trauma and Adoption
Please join us as we continue our conversation about spiritual trauma and adoption from our perspectives as an adoptee and as a mother who terminated her parental rights for the purposes of adoption. We are using the book Holy Hurt: Understanding Spiritual Trauma and the Process of Healing as a scaffold. You can find Dani Joy at: https://www.facebook.com/joyfuldj https://substack.com/@danijoy/note/p-191085730 https://medium.com/@danijoy https://www.hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt Mentioned in the episode: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Mennonite https://faithalone.org/grace-in-focus-articles/what-is-free-grace-theology/ Mentioning religions in the notes does not mean that the host or the podcast are recommending these religions or their beleifs The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health Thank you for listening!
September 7 · 56 min
Healing, Recovery, Remaking: Which makes sense for you?
Please join me and my guest Dani Joy as we continue our conversation on spiritual trauma and adoption, from the perspectives of an adopted person and a mother of loss to adoption. We are using the book Holy Hurt by Hillary L McBride PhD as a guide for our discussion. https://medium.com/@danijoy https://www.hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt https://youtu.be/3e0-SsmOUJI?si=LfXUJu2f59sjqdTh https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, our opinions The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional Thank you for listening!
August 31 · 48 min
Gods will or?
Please join Dani Joy and me, Ande, as we continue to discuss spiritual trauma and adoption, with the book Holy Hurt by Hilary McBride PhD as a scaffold. The foundation has been established, and now we are beginning the section of the book that discusses actively processing our trauma. We are working through this in real time, unscripted. Let us know if any of this feels familiar! Dani is a mother of loss to adoption, a homesteader and a writer. She loves to hear from people. She can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy https://substack.com/@danijoy https://www.facebook.com/joyfuldj https://www.hillarylmcbride.com/ https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional Thank you for listening!
August 24 · 48 min
I am terrible at titles. Continuing the conversation about spiritual trauma as people impacted by adoption
Yes, I am terrible at titles, and hate to mislead. Just laying that out there. Dani Joy, mother of loss to adoption and me, late discovery adopted person (as well as an intercountry adoptee from foster care in the UK to the US) continue to talk about deconstructing from the adoption narrative and from religious and spiritual trauma. What do they have to do with each other? Family loss is a profound spiritual trauma, and the belief systems we grew up in promote and glorify family loss via adoption. Dani can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy Dani enjoys hearing from people. We are using the book Holy Hurt as a scaffold for our conversation. The book and information about the author can be found at: https://www.hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt Mentioned in the episode: https://drlauraeanderson.com/ Moms and adopted people are overrepresented in statistics for mental health issues, including suicidal ideation. Isolation and grief are two issues that profoundly impact our community. If you are in need of support, please reach out to someone. I am including some links to mental health helplines, as well as the link to Concerned United Birthparents and to Saving our Sisters. If anyone is aware of any adoptee -centric helplines that are not in some way controlled by the adoption industry, please let me know. Thank you! https://rainn.org/ https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health https://www.thetrevorproject.org/ https://concernedunitedbirthparents.org/ https://www.savingoursistersadoption.org/ Saving our Sisters and CUB are not mental healthcare providers, but are or are aware of support groups and resources for moms. The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional Thank you for listening!
August 18 · 49 min
Feel the Feelings: continuing our conversation on spiritual trauma
Hi! Please join me and my guest host Dani Joy as we continue with the next section of our conversation on spiritual trauma from our perspectives as a mother of loss to adoption and as a late discovery adopted person, raised in white, Christian contexts. Dani Joy is a mom and a homesteader. She can be found at:https://medium.com/@danijoy https://www.hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt Mentioned in the episode: https://editionsdujournal.groupelivre.com/products/ne-mappelez-pas-roxana?variant=48067092021505 https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=core+emotions+chart&form=HDRSC3&first=1 https://buddhistlearning.org/how-to-meditate-a-beginners-guide-to-buddhist-meditation/ This is a beginners quide to Buddhist meditation principles. Including this here is not an endorsement of a religion or a religious practice. This is provided because it includes what I was taught when attending meditation sessions at a local Buddhist monastery. Exploring our emotions, learning to recognize and to name them, can be overwhelming if we are not used to doing so. If you are feeling dysregulated or distressed, please seek support. I am including here links to some resources that might align with your needs. https://www.thetrevorproject.org/ https://rainn.org/ https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions. The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional. Thank you for listening!
July 26 · 56 min
How to use Spirituality as a Defense against Discomfort: Spiritual Bypassing
Please join us as we continue our conversation around spiritual trauma and adoption as we work our way through the book Holy Hurt: Understanding Spiritual Trauma and the Process of Healing by Hillary L McBride PhD . Todays' episode explores the concept of spiritual bypassing as a coping mechanism to avoid feeling our core emotions. Joining me again today is Dani Joy, mom, homesteader, exvangelical. Dani can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/ https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions. The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional. Thank you for listening!
July 22 · 59 min
Your Feelings Matter: the Core Emotions and Spiritual Trauma
Please join Dani Joy and I as we delve into the core emotions and how we are born with these crucial forms of communication. We continue to explore how adoption and spiritual trauma intersect, using the book Holly Hurt as a framework for our discussion. Dani Joy can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/ Mentioned in the episode: https://www.relinquishedbook.com/ https://savingoursistersadoption.org/saving-our-sisters-about-us/ https://thefamilypreservationproject.com/ https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional Thank you for listening!
July 12 · 50 min
Victim, Villain, Valiant Hero: The Drama Triangle and Spiritual Trauma
Please join Dani Joy and I as we continue our conversation about spiritual trauma and adoption. We are using the book Holy Hurt: Understanding Spiritual Trauma and the Process of Healing by Hillary L McBride, PhD as a scaffold for our conversation. We just started Chapter 5! How do the roles of victim, villain and rescuer play out in your life? What do they have to do with spiritual trauma? With adoption? Let us know what you think after you join us for the episode. Dani Joy can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy She loves to hear from people! https://hillarylmcbride.com/books/ https://mental-health-matters.org/2021/01/20/what-is-the-karpman-drama-triangle/ https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions, The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional Thank you for listening!
July 8 · 1 hr 5 min
Let's: See What Develops: The Essentials. Continuing the conversation on spiritual trauma
Please join Dani Joy and me as we continue to discuss spiritual trauma and adoption. I am a Late Discovery, Intercountry adopted person. Dani is a mother of loss to adoption. Dani can be found at https://medium.com/@danijoy https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/ https://health.clevelandclinic.org/generational-trauma https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12220155/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6378493/ https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions the host is not a lawyer, therapist, or an adoption professional thank you for listening
June 30 · 38 min
Returning to the Familiar: When we keep going back to things that hurt
Please join Dani Joy and I as we continue to explore spiritual trauma using the book Holy Hurt by Hillary L McBride Phd as a scaffold for our discussion. How might these spiritual wounds relate to Dani's experience as a mother of loss to adoption? How has my being an adopted person been shaped by spiritual trauma? In this installment we talk about the return to the familiar, even when the familiar hurts. Dani Joy is a mother of loss to adoption, a homesteader and blogger. She can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/ https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/post-traumatic-stress-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20355967 https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/24881-cptsd-complex-ptsd https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional Thank you for listening.
June 26 · 53 min
What we need from the beginning: Continuing the conversation on spiritual trauma
Please join Dani Joy and I as we discuss the section What we need from the beginning, from the book Holy Hurt by Hilary L McBride, PhD. Dani is a mother of loss to adoption, as well as a homesteader, advocate and writer. Dani can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/ https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions. The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional Thank you for listening!
June 22 · 7 min
Alert: California SB 381. California adopted people need your support
California Alliance For Adoptee Rights and Senator Wahab have a bill being heard in the Health Committee this Tuesday, 23 June 2026. They need you to call the members of the Health Committee to ask that they vote yes on the bill as it is written, without amendments. Please follow the link to find a script and the phone numbers of the members of the Health Committee. https://www.facebook.com/CAadopteerights/posts/pfbid034DfNoKF8Kd3KM7c5jHPbu7XEAKBGkhFMbmLAH2GTVTzBQLcbjkZsFadKhyvMaBgSl If for some reason the link does not work, please go to California Alliance for Adoptee Rights and click on the featured post at the top of the page. Thank you so much for your support. The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional. The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions. Thank you for listening.
June 10 · 39 min
The Culture we Swim in, Pt 2. Spiritual Trauma is NOT fun!
Please join me and Dani Joy as we continue our conversation about the intersection of spiritual trauma and adoption. We are talking trauma, just nonstop, processing! It's so fun. Come have fun with us! We are using the book Holy Hurt; Understanding Spiritual Trauma and the Process of Healing as a scaffold for our conversations. Dani can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy I can be found here, pretty much. https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/ https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional Please consider rating and sharing the episode. Thank you!
June 7 · 55 min
The Culture we swim in: continuing the conversation on spiritual trauma and adoption
Please join me and Dani Joy as we continue to address spiritual trauma from our lived experience as a mother of loss to adoption and as a late discovery adopted person. Dani can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/ https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health The opinions of the host and their guest are just that- their opinions The host is not a lawyer, therapist, or an adoption professional. Thank you for listening!
June 2 · 54 min
The Adoption Paradox: a Conversation with Author Jean Kelly Widner
Please join me for my conversation with Jean Kelly Widner, a domestically adopted person who is the author of The Adoption Paradox: Putting Adoption in Perspective. Jean is a Baby Scoop Era adopted person from Washington who has found herself as an Accidental Tourist in the paradox that is living adopted. https://adoptionparadox.com/ Mentioned in the episode: https://boothcampus.salvationarmy.org/booth_campus/booth-records/ https://doh.wa.gov/licenses-permits-and-certificates/vital-records/adoptions/original-birth-certificate-adopted-person https://adopteerightslaw.com/truth/ https://savingoursistersadoption.org/ https://thefamilypreservationproject.com/ https://www.relinquishedbook.com/ https://www.thegirlswhowentaway.com/ https://onadoption.net/ The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, our opinions. The host is not a therapist, a lawyer, or an adoption professional. Thank you for listening!
May 26 · 1 hr 6 min
Fundamentally Bad: a Survivor's Universal Experience of Spiritual Trauma
Please join Dani Joy and I as we continue our conversation about spiritual trauma using the book Holy Hurt by Hilary L McBride PhD as a guide as we explore how this has impacted us as a mother of loss to adoption and as an adopted person. Both Dani and I come from a Christian religious tradition, and we speak to our own lived experience as people deconstructing from religion and from the adoption narrative. Dani can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/ Mentioned on the podcast: https://candacecahill.com/book/ https://www.youtube.com/@maklelan https://www.youtube.com/@dataoverdogma If you are experiencing distress and need to talk, please reach out to one of the trained responders or to someone you feel safe with: https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions. The host is not a lawyer, a therapist or an adoption professional Thank you for listening! Please rate and review the show. We appreciate you.
May 20 · 1 hr 4 min
This Feels Familiar: How leaving the system that harmed you can be hard to do. Plus more fun stuff about spiritual trauma!
Please join me and mom Dani Joy as we wrap up chapter 3 in our discussion of spiritual trauma using the book Holy Hurt by Hilary L McBride PhD as a guide. In this episode we talk about how leaving can end up being more of the same, and why that happens. We also talk about characteristics of marginalized groups that intersect with our experiences with adoption. Dani can be found at: https://medium.com/@danijoy https://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/ https://thebloggess.com/ https://www.healthcentral.com/mental-health/get-help-mental-health The opinions of the host and their guest are just that, their opinions The host is not a therapist, a lawyer or an adoption professional Thank you for listening!

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