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Searching for Mana with Lloyd Wahed

Lloyd Wahed

Searching for Mana explores how technology, capital and institutions are being reshaped in real time.

Hosted by Lloyd Wahed, each episode features conversations with founders, investors and policymakers operating at the frontier, from AI and digital assets to global finance and government.

These aren’t surface-level interviews. They’re focused on how things actually get built, scaled and implemented.

The through-line is simple: what separates those who can turn change into advantage, and those who can’t.

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20 episodes
Avg 58 min
English

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S8 · E13
July 21 · 1 hr 14 min
Heath Tarbert, Circle President | From Crypto Winter to IPO | Stablecoins, AI and the Future of Money
Two years after Circle co-founder and CEO Jeremy Allaire joined us on Searching for Mana, Lloyd Wahed sits down with Circle President Heath Tarbert to pick up the story. Quite a lot has happened in between. Circle has gone public, stablecoins have moved firmly into the financial mainstream and the conversation has shifted from whether this technology matters to how large it can become. Heath has had a rare view of that journey. Before joining Circle, he served in the White House, chaired the US Commodity Futures Trading Commission and held senior roles at Citadel Securities. Today, he operates at the centre of one of the most important companies in digital finance. In this episode, Lloyd and Heath discuss the road through crypto winter, Circle’s IPO, the growing competition around USDC and what it takes to turn a long-term vision into a functioning global financial platform. They explore why new stablecoin entrants may validate rather than weaken Circle’s thesis, why consortium models often struggle, and how regulation is opening the door for stablecoins to move beyond crypto markets and into traditional finance. The discussion then turns to what happens when AI begins to move money for itself, from Circle’s internal transformation to a world of autonomous agents transacting at a scale and frequency humans never could. It also becomes a broader conversation about how to build through uncertainty: staying clear-eyed when conditions turn, holding onto conviction without drifting into fantasy, and finding the discipline to keep moving when the outcome is far from guaranteed. A wide-ranging conversation about money, policy, strategy and the infrastructure that could underpin the next era of finance. Very special thanks to: Ideaworks, Megapixel, Ventana and Superlumenary Work on view: 0xfff, Transaction Sculpture, 2025–26. Courtesy of Nguyen Wahed and the artist. FOLLOW ON X: @Circle @Lloydwahed @ideaworksgroup @superlumenary @0xShiroi @nguyenwahed
S8 · E12
July 9 · 1 hr 4 min
Matt Hougan, Bitwise | Tokenisation, Bitcoin and the Future of Asset Management
What will drive crypto’s next major cycle: Bitcoin, stablecoins, tokenisation, or something much bigger? Matt Hougan, Chief Investment Officer at Bitwise, joins Lloyd Wahed to break down how institutional investors are really approaching crypto, why adoption often takes years, and what finally gets capital off the sidelines. He explains why Bitcoin should be understood as a service, makes the long-term case for a $1 million price, and argues that investors spend too much time trying to call the bottom instead of thinking about where the top could be. The conversation also explores why advisers and family offices are increasingly focused on stablecoins and tokenisation, who could become the “NVIDIA of tokenisation”, and why crypto-native firms may continue to thrive even as giants such as BlackRock enter the market. Matt also sets out his conviction that on-chain vaults could become one of the most important innovations in asset management since the ETF. Beyond the markets, he reflects on his unconventional path into finance, the principles that shaped his career, and the skill at the heart of his success: taking complex ideas, reducing them to first principles, and making them easy to understand. A wide-ranging conversation on Bitcoin, institutional capital, tokenisation and the future architecture of finance. FOLLOW on X! Matt Hougan: @matt_hougan Bitwise: @bitwise Lloyd: @lloydwahed
S8 · E11
July 1 · 44 min
SEC Commissioner Hester Peirce: 'I Expect CLARITY to Pass This Summer'
SEC Commissioner Hester Peirce has spent years arguing that regulators should create clear rules, not make policy through enforcement. Now, with the CLARITY Act advancing, a more supportive administration in Washington and institutions finally entering digital assets, she believes the industry has a genuine opportunity. But she also has a warning. Regulatory clarity alone won’t determine what happens next. Builders will. In this episode of Searching for Mana, Lloyd Wahed sits down with SEC Commissioner Hester Peirce to discuss why markets work better than central planning, how tokenisation could reshape capital markets, why the SEC should remain a referee, not a participant and what the crypto industry must do to avoid wasting this moment. They discuss: Why the CLARITY Act could reshape US digital asset regulation Whether regulation by enforcement cost America years of innovation How tokenisation changes collateral, securities and capital markets Why markets, not bureaucrats, allocate capital best The future of AI regulation The decline of public markets and how to reverse it The importance of financial education Why Hester is leaving the SEC to teach the next generation of lawyers A conversation about regulation, innovation and the philosophy that underpins free markets. Subscribe to Searching for Mana for conversations with the builders, investors and policymakers shaping the future of finance. Follow on X: Commissioner Peirce: @HesterPeirce Lloyd Wahed: @lloydwahed
S8 · E10
June 18 · 52 min
Rani Jabban, 'The Punk Banker' | Crypto, Digital Art and the Long Game
Recorded live at Art Basel 2026, in front of the Zero10 sector at the world's most significant contemporary art fair. In this conversation, Rani and Lloyd discuss the bank's digital art collection and prize, the question of scarcity and artist career management, what it takes to build lending infrastructure for NFTs, and why the institutions that will matter in this space are the ones that arrived before the market did. Leander Herzog's Infinite Garden is presented by Nguyen Wahed Gallery at Art Basel 2026, where it wraps the facade of the hall itself. Last year, Leander was a finalist in the Arab Bank Switzerland digital art prize. Rani Jabban is Deputy CEO of Arab Bank Switzerland - one of the first private banks in the world to offer institutional-grade cryptocurrency custody to clients. In 2019, when the consensus across major financial institutions was blockchain yes, crypto no, Arab Bank moved the other way. What followed was a years-long bet on digital assets, digital art, and the infrastructure needed to treat both with the seriousness of any other asset class. Follow on X: Lloyd Wahed: @LloydWahed Rani: @RaniJabban Arab Bank Switzerland: @arabbankCH Nguyen Wahed: @nguyenwahed Art Basel: @ArtBasel Leander Herzog: @lennyjpg
S8 · E9
May 28 · 46 min
The Intersection: AI, Crypto and the Institutional Moment
Four conversations from this season of Searching for Mana, woven into one. Chris Perkins on why Franklin Templeton bet on him to run their crypto platform, and why institutions now have more risk if they're not in the space. Sidney Powell on Maple's reverse innovator's dilemma against the JP Morgans and Blackstones now circling the Bitcoin backed loan market. Alex Buelau on what banks actually need from a blockchain, and why instant finality and stablecoin gas fees changed how he built Rails. Boris Revsin from Tribe Capital on the centralising force of AI meeting the decentralising force of crypto, and why the 57th L1 probably isn't capturing much value anymore. Three themes run through it: the institutional moment, the AI and blockchain intersection, and the macro backdrop pushing both. If you've been following along, this is the through-line. If you're new, it's four reasons to come back next week. Follow on X! Lloyd Wahed: @lloydwahed Alex Buelau: @x10xalex Sidney Powell: @syrupsid Chris Perkins: @perkinscr97 Boris Revsin: @brevsin Please Like & Subscribe!
S8 · E8
May 21 · 1 hr 5 min
Alex Buelau, Rayls | AI, Banks and the Invisible Future of Finance
"Getting banks to use blockchain has never been about the technology. If you cannot answer why a bank makes more money by going blockchain, there is no reason for them to adopt it." In this episode of Searching for Mana, Lloyd Wahed is joined by Alex Buelau, founder of Rayls, the Layer 1 blockchain purpose-built for institutional finance. After more than a decade building infrastructure for banks and financial institutions, Alex believes the next evolution of blockchain will not be driven by speculation, but by the convergence of traditional finance, tokenised assets, and artificial intelligence. Rayls was built around a simple premise: existing blockchain infrastructure was never designed for the operational requirements of institutions. The conversation explores why Rayls chose to build a Layer 1 rather than another Layer 2, the importance of instant finality and stablecoin-based gas fees for banks, and why Alex believes the future of crypto increasingly resembles foundational internet infrastructure rather than an alternative financial system. Alex also shares how Parfin became embedded across major Brazilian financial institutions, why Brazil has emerged as one of the most advanced environments for tokenised finance experimentation, and what it actually takes to bridge institutional liquidity with decentralised infrastructure. Along the way, the discussion moves into AI agents, the future architecture of financial systems, founder resilience, and Alex’s long-standing fascination with technology trends before they become obvious to the market. This episode covers why the next generation of blockchain infrastructure will need to balance public liquidity with institutional privacy, how AI could fundamentally change the way value moves across financial systems, and why the biggest opportunities in crypto may ultimately come from making the technology disappear entirely. Follow on X: Alex Buelau: @x10xalex Rayls: @RaylsLabs Lloyd Wahed: @lloydwahed Please follow and subscribe!
S8 · E7
May 14 · 1 hr 26 min
Boris Revsin, Tribe Capital | The Fight Between AI and Ownership
"Maybe the value is created in AI. But the future of ownership is very likely to happen on the blockchain." In this episode of Searching for Mana, Lloyd Wahed is joined by Boris Revsin, CEO of Tribe Capital, a US-based, multi-stage venture firm managing just under $2.5 billion across crypto, AI infrastructure, and frontier tech. Boris joined Tribe in 2022 to run the fintech and crypto group and has spent the last two years as CEO and GP across all funds, with investments spanning OpenAI, XAI, Kraken, and companies operating at the sharpest edge of the AI and blockchain intersection. Boris's story began in Russia in 1986, with a midnight escape to the US. That experience forged a worldview on capitalism, risk, and what opportunity actually looks like that runs through everything he builds. Tribe's current conviction is that AI and crypto aren't competing forces. AI centralises value. Blockchain is where ownership accrues. And the firms that understand both will define the next decade of infrastructure. This episode covers why the next plethora of L1's probably aren't going anywhere interesting, what on-chain agents actually need to function, and why Boris thinks the more important question isn't how AI changes work. It's how it changes everything else. Follow on X: Boris Revsin: @brevsin Tribe Capital: @tribecap Lloyd Wahed: @lloydwahed Please follow and subscribe!
S8 · E6
May 7 · 30 min
Bernard Schmid, Areta | Who's Really Winning the Crypto M&A Race
"A business needs to get bought. Not sold." In this episode of Searching for Mana - On Location, Malak Alba is joined by Bernard Schmid at the Digital Assets Forum in London, catching him at the centre of the industry he's helping to build. Bernard is Co-Founder of Areta, the leading crypto-native M&A advisory firm by deal count, and spent years at the Blackstones and Deutsche Banks of the world before making a deliberate bet that crypto would eventually need the same professional financial infrastructure that traditional markets take for granted. That moment, he decided, was worth leaving for. 2025 was a record year for crypto M&A, $8.6 billion across 267 transactions, four times the volume of 2024. Bernard has been at the centre of it. From the Kraken-Breakout deal to the first ever private equity acquisition in digital assets, Areta has been advising on the transactions that are quietly reshaping how the industry consolidates. This episode covers why payments is now the category driving the lion's share of deal activity, what founders consistently get wrong about their own valuation, and why Bernard thinks the most important thing a founder can do before selling is make buyers come to them. Follow on X! Areta: @areta_io Malak: @malakincrypto Please Like and Subscribe!
S8 · E5
April 30 · 1 hr 9 min
Sidney Powell, Maple Finance | Why the Next Phase of Crypto Is Credit
“The wave that we're catching is that all of this is going to shift on-chain and be done with stablecoins over the next 10 years.” In this episode of Searching for Mana, Lloyd Wahed is joined by Sidney Powell, CEO of Maple Finance, to explore how on-chain credit is evolving into a serious capital markets category. Maple now manages around $4bn in AUM and has originated more than $20bn in loans since launch. But the deeper story is how crypto lending has changed since 2022: less frontier excess, more risk management, more institutional structure. Sidney explains how Maple lends to institutions on-chain using stablecoins, why liquid collateral changes the risk profile, and how DeFi can become a source of capital rather than just speculation. They also discuss stablecoins scaling into the trillions, the application layer thesis, Maple’s partnership with Aave, private credit, macro cycles, AI, and why Sidney believes the next decade of alternative lending moves on-chain. A grounded conversation on credit, stablecoins, risk, and what it takes to build through the cycles. Follow Sidney & Maple Finance on X: @syrupsid @maplefinance Follow Lloyd: @lloydwahed Please like and subscribe to stay up to date with all the latest episodes!
S8 · E4
April 23 · 52 min
Chris Perkins, Franklin Templeton | From Iraq to Wall Street to Crypto
“Technology is not political. It’s just technology.” In this episode of Searching for Mana, Lloyd Wahed is joined by Chris Perkins, Head of Franklin Crypto at Franklin Templeton. Chris’ path into digital assets spans the US Marine Corps, 15 years on Wall Street, and senior roles across crypto, including as President at CoinFund, before stepping into one of the most significant institutional roles in the space. Following Franklin Templeton’s acquisition of 250 Digital, a CoinFund spinoff housing its liquid crypto strategies, Chris now leads the newly formed Franklin Crypto unit, bringing together crypto-native expertise with one of the largest global distribution platforms. The conversation focuses on what has changed. While digital assets are still often framed through volatility and cycles, the more important shift is structural. Institutional capital is moving in, and with it comes a different set of requirements around scale, governance, and distribution. Chris explains why this moment represents an inflection point, and why the next phase of the market will be defined less by ideology and more by execution. They discuss: why institutions are stepping into crypto now, and what has changed how tokenisation is reshaping market structure, from 24/7 trading to global access the role of governance, controls, and regulation in unlocking capital why distribution remains the missing layer across the ecosystem Chris also reflects on the principles that guide his approach, from operating in high-stakes environments to building within regulated financial systems, and how that informs his view on risk, technology, and long-term market structure. Follow on X: Chris Perkins: @perkinscr97 Franklin Templeton Digital Assets: @FTDA_US Lloyd Wahed: @lloydwahed Please Like and Subscribe! https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/searching-for-mana-with-lloyd-wahed/id1491460738 https://open.spotify.com/show/3HmB7fS60zRSvWq3sQgj3X?si=a8aae116ba4d4ebb https://www.youtube.com/@searchingformanapodcast
S8 · E3
April 16 · 1 hr 26 min
Max Gokhman, Franklin Templeton | The Mistake Most Investors Are Still Making
“Digital Assets are not a monolith.” In this episode of Searching for Mana, Lloyd Wahed is joined by Max Gokhman, Deputy CIO at Franklin Templeton Investment Solutions Digital assets are often framed through cycles of hype and volatility. But from an institutional perspective, the more relevant question is whether something more structural is taking place beneath the surface. Max argues that the current moment is better understood as a dislocation - one that resembles earlier periods of techno
S8 · E2
April 9 · 1 hr 13 min
Eric Saraniecki, Canton Network | How Financial Markets Actually Work (And Why They Don’t)
“The vision is to rotate the world’s economy on-chain.” In this episode of Searching for Mana, Lloyd Wahed is joined by Eric Saraniecki, Co-Founder of Digital Asset and a key architect behind the Canton Network. Despite the ambition, the reality today is far more constrained. Financial systems still rely on fragmented infrastructure, delayed settlement, and processes that haven’t meaningfully evolved in decades. What looks instantaneous on the surface often takes days beneath it. Eric explai
S8 · E1
April 2 · 1 hr 8 min
Benedict Macon-Cooney, Chief AI & Innovation Officer at the Tony Blair Institute | Reimagining the State in the Age of AI
“No government in the world is anywhere near AI-native.” In this episode of Searching for Mana, Lloyd Wahed sits down with Benedict Macon-Cooney, Chief AI & Innovation Officer at the Tony Blair Institute. They discuss how artificial intelligence is beginning to reshape government, public services, and the structure of the modern state. Benedict shares insights from working with leaders and governments around the world, explaining why institutions must adapt quickly to the pace of technological
S7 · E10
February 25 · 21 min
Yoni Assia, Founder & CEO of eToro | Gen Z, Crypto, and the $100 Trillion Wealth Shift
In this episode of Searching for Mana – On Location, Malak sits down with Yoni Assia, Founder and CEO of eToro, to explore how online trading has evolved from phone brokers and desktop platforms to mobile-first, crypto-native investing. Recorded live at the Milken Institute's Middle East & Africa Summit in Abu Dhabi, Yoni shares how eToro pioneered social and copy trading, introduced Bitcoin to European brokerage clients as early as 2013, and helped shape the tokenisation conversation alongsid
S7 · E9
February 4 · 30 min
Paul Abrahimzadeh, Partner at 1789 Capital | Investing in America's Future: AI, Defense, and Beyond
In this episode of Searching for Mana - ON LOCATION, guest host Malak Alba speaks with Paul Abrahimzadeh, Partner at 1789 Capital. Paul discusses his transition from Citigroup to 1789 Capital and shares insights into the firm's investment philosophy of 'patriotic capitalism,' which focuses on bolstering American competitiveness. The conversation covers Paul's methods for identifying high-growth companies, the economic impact of tech investments in the US, and his views on the burgeoning fields
S7 · E8
Oct 21, 2025 · 1 hr 10 min
Maja Vujinovic, CEO & Co-Founder of FG Nexus | Forging Resilient Paths and Strategic Growth in the Future of Blockchain
In this episode of Searching for Mana, host Lloyd Wahed sits down with Maja Vujinovic, CEO & Co-Founder of FG Nexus. Maja shares her remarkable journey from being a refugee in childhood to becoming a successful entrepreneur. She discusses the financial struggles she observed early in life, which led her to the world of Bitcoin and cryptocurrency. Maja also recounts her experience of getting kicked out of boardrooms for discussing the use of airline engine electricity from GE to mine Bitcoin. She discusses the creation of FG Nexus, a company built to be cycler-resistant, and how it's not just a momentum play. Additionally, Maja gives a prediction on the price of Ethereum by the end of the year and explains her philosophy of being grateful even for the challenges she faces. Tune in for an insightful discussion on overcoming adversity, the volatile world of cryptocurrencies, and the future of blockchain technology. Maja Vujinovic X (Twitter): https://x.com/maja0G LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/majavujinovic/ Lloyd Wahed X (Twitter): https://x.com/LloydWahed LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lloydwahed/ Stay updated with Searching For Mana Official website: https://mana-group.co/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/mana1/ Enjoyed this episode? Give it a thumbs up & subscribe for more inspiring conversations!
S7 · E7
Oct 9, 2025 · 57 min
Kyle Samani, Multicoin Capital & Chairman of Forward Industries | Defining the Future of Internet Capital Markets
In this episode of Searching for Mana, host Lloyd Wahed sits down with Kyle Samani, Co-Founder and Managing Partner of Multicoin Capital and Chairman of the Board of Forward Industries, for an insightful discussion about the Solana blockchain and Multicoin Capital's role in the blockchain space. Samani delves into the unique features that distinguish Solana from other blockchains, such as its high throughput and low transaction costs, and explains its rapid growth and adoption within the blockchain community. The conversation also covers broader topics, including Samani's investment strategies, the future potential of decentralised finance (DeFi), and the transformative impact of blockchain technology on the global financial ecosystem. Samani shares his perspectives on the challenges facing the blockchain industry and the innovations that could drive its future growth. Tune in for a deep dive into the innovative world of Solana, the dynamics of blockchain technology, and the impact of Multicoin Capital on the future of finance and technology. Kyle Samani X (Twitter): https://x.com/KyleSamani LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kylesamani/ Lloyd Wahed X (Twitter): https://x.com/LloydWahed LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lloydwahed/ Stay updated with Searching For Mana Official website: https://mana-group.co/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/mana1/ Enjoyed this episode? Give it a thumbs up & subscribe for more inspiring conversations!
S7 · E6
Sep 5, 2025 · 1 hr 15 min
Kevin de Patoul, CEO & Co-Founder of Keyrock | From Market Making to Global Scale: The Digital Asset Revolution
In this episode of Searching for Mana, host Lloyd Wahed speaks with Kevin de Patoul, Co-founder and CEO of Keyrock. Kevin shares how he built Keyrock from its beginnings in 2017 into a global force in digital asset market making, operating across thousands of markets and exchanges. The conversation covers the evolution of digital assets, the challenges of bridging traditional and crypto finance, and the importance of building trust and credibility in a rapidly changing industry. Kevin also reflects on the lessons learned from entrepreneurship, the value of discipline and humility, and his vision for the future of tokenisation and digital finance. Tune in for insights on digital assets, scaling a fintech company, and what it takes to lead in a rapidly evolving industry. Kevin de Patoul X (Twitter): https://x.com/kevindepatoul LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-de-patoul/ Lloyd Wahed X (Twitter): https://x.com/LloydWahed LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lloydwahed/ Stay updated with Searching For Mana Official website: https://mana-group.co/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/mana1/ Enjoyed this episode? Give it a thumbs up & subscribe for more inspiring conversations!
S7 · E5
Aug 21, 2025 · 1 hr 13 min
Sandy Kaul, Head of Innovation at Franklin Templeton | Visionary Insights: Tokenisation and Financial Evolution
In this episode of the Searching for Mana podcast, host Lloyd Wahed sits down with Sandy Kaul, EVP Head of Innovation at Franklin Templeton. They discuss the groundbreaking potential of digital assets and blockchain technology in transforming the financial industry. Sandy shares her journey from a journalist to a thought leader in fintech, highlighting pivotal moments and the innovative directions Franklin Templeton is taking. They delve into the intricacies of tokenised money market funds, stablecoins, and the evolving landscape of financial regulation. Beyond her role at Franklin Templeton, Sandy is the co-chair of the Commodities Futures Trading Commission's Digital Asset Subcommittee and serves on the World Economic Forum Digital Assets Advisory Board. Tune in to explore Sandy's visionary insights and the future trajectory of digital finance. Sandy Kaul LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandy-kaul/ Lloyd Wahed X (Twitter): https://x.com/LloydWahed LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lloydwahed/ Stay updated with Searching For Mana Official website: https://mana-group.co/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/mana1/ Enjoyed this episode? Give it a thumbs up & subscribe for more inspiring conversations!
S7 · E4
Jun 4, 2025 · 34 min
The Uber of Payments - Steffen Vollert, Co-founder and CEO of Volt.io on Culture, Crypto & Consistency
In this episode of Searching for Mana, Dan & Sachin are joined by Steffen Vollert, Co-Founder and CEO of Volt.io — one of the leading players driving real-time payments across borders through open banking infrastructure. From the early days of Volt’s seed raise to the complexity of global expansion — including their launch in Australia — Steffen shares what it takes to build a high-growth payments business without compromising on culture, product, or people. He unpacks why talent retention and cultural alignment are key differentiators at scale, and how “extreme ownership” has shaped Volt’s internal DNA. The conversation also dives into: – The future of Web3 in payments – How digital assets could accelerate infrastructure – Why Europe lags behind the U.S. in fintech innovation – And yes… even a few thoughts on tractors, habits, and consistency Steffen’s calm, pragmatic approach is matched by a sharp clarity around product and growth — a CEO who codes, thinks, and scales with intention. A must-listen for anyone building in payments, fintech, or digital infrastructure. Steffen Vollert LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vollerts/ Daniel O'Riordan X (Twitter): https://x.com/Dan_ORiordan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-o-riordan-0636257b/ Sachin Doshi LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sachin-doshi-1b87094/ Stay updated with Searching For Mana Official website: https://mana-group.co/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/mana1/ Enjoyed this episode? Give it a thumbs up & subscribe for more inspiring conversations!

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