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Science of Perception Box

Unlikely Collaborators | Pod People

Join renowned scientists Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch on the Science of Perception Box, where they delve into the Perception Box—a groundbreaking concept developed by Elizabeth R. Koch, that reveals how our beliefs, biases, and neural wiring shape our reality and define how we experience the world.

Through captivating conversations with expert guests like psychiatrist Dr. Judson Brewer, anthropologist Dr. Helen Fisher, and journalist Michael Pollan, the show explores how the Perception Box expands in states of awe, curiosity, and love, and contracts during fear, anxiety, or anger.

From mindfulness and romantic relationships to psychedelics and human connection, each episode uncovers transformative insights into unlocking greater awareness, fostering curiosity, and reshaping how we perceive the world.

New episodes drop every Thursday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Follow the journey and redefine your reality.

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Yesterday · 26 min
The Physics of Consciousness
Theoretical physicist Dr. Michio Kaku joins hosts Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch to explore what physics can teach us about consciousness and reality itself. Dr. Kaku argues that consciousness is best understood as feedback loops, shaping the walls of our own Perception Box™ long before we're aware of it. The conversation asks if quantum mechanics has anything to do with a "warm, wet" brain, illuminating a central idea of the Perception Box, a framework developed by Elizabeth R. Koch for understanding the forces within us that shape how we see ourselves, relate to others, and move through the world. Dr. Michio Kaku is a theoretical physicist, bestselling author, acclaimed public speaker, renowned futurist, and popularizer of science. As co-founder of String Field Theory, Dr. Kaku carries on Einstein's quest to unite the four fundamental forces of nature into a single grand unified theory of everything. He received a B.S. (summa cum laude) from Harvard University in 1968, then went on to the Berkeley Radiation Laboratory at the University of California, Berkeley, where he received a Ph.D. in 1972. In 1973, he held a lectureship at Princeton University. Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City. Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science. Join us for new episodes every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever podcasts are found. Love the show? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend about the show. Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information. Chapters: 00:00 Intro 01:48 Can Physics Explain Consciousness? 03:24 Defining Consciousness vs. Intelligence 09:57 Schrödinger's Cat and the Many-Worlds Theory 12:47 Do Quantum Effects Scale Up to the Brain? 16:13 Could AI Ever Be Conscious? 21:04 Perception Box Question: How Do Others Perceive You? 23:15 Kaku's Multiple Identities Through Life
September 23 · 46 min
How to Recover From Decades of Chronic Stress
Stress researcher Dr. Elissa Epel explains why the goal isn't to eliminate stress but to get better at recovering from it. She says that a sharp, short stress response followed by real rest is the hallmark of a young, healthy nervous system. She breaks down the science of why chronic vigilance quietly ages our cells and shortens telomeres. Plus: why lying down can defuse an argument, how someone can recover from years of chronic stress, and why nature, ritual, and even a good nap belong in everyone's stress prescription. Dr. Epel's research reveals a central idea of the Perception Box, a framework developed by Elizabeth R. Koch for understanding the forces within us that shape how we see ourselves, relate to others, and move through the world. Elissa Epel, Ph.D., is a professor of psychiatry at UCSF, where she directs the Aging, Metabolism, and Emotions Center. She co-wrote the New York Times bestseller The Telomere Effect with Nobel laureate Elizabeth Blackburn, and her latest book is The Stress Prescription. A member of the National Academy of Medicine, her research has been featured on 60 Minutes, NPR, and in the New York Times and Wall Street Journal. Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City. Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science. Join us for new episodes every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever podcasts are found. Love the show? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend about the show. Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information. Chapters: 03:00 What happens in mind and body under stress 05:16 Why too little stress ages you faster 13:20 Is chronic stress damage reversible? 15:12 What a healthy stress response looks like 18:06 Tunnel vision: the Perception Box under stress 24:15 Building recovery into your day 27:37 The stress prescription, part two: practices 31:13 Deep rest as a gateway to transformation 32:38 Recovering from years of chronic stress 38:41 Highly sensitive people and anxiety 40:09 Perception Box question: what do you want people to believe about you?
September 16 · 48 min
Are Your Emotions Telling You the Truth?
Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett, psychologist and neuroscientist, joins hosts Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch to unpack her theory of constructed emotion: the idea that emotions aren't hardwired reactions but stories the brain builds to explain physical signals like a racing heart or a furrowed brow. Dr. Barrett explains why there's no universal facial expression for anger or fear, how the same racing heart can be read as fear or excitement depending on your Perception Box™, and why "you have more control over your interpretation than you think," even if that control takes practice to build. Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett is a psychological scientist and neuroscientist, University Distinguished Professor of Psychology at Northeastern University, and originator of the theory of constructed emotion. She is the author of How Emotions Are Made and Seven and a Half Lessons About the Brain. Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City. Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science. Join us for new episodes of Science of Perception Box every Wednesday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. Love Science of Perception Box? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend! Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information. Chapters: 03:17 Brain as Prediction Machine 07:41 Why Predictions Feel Invisible 13:55 Feelings Versus Emotions 18:43 No Universal Expressions 30:31 Babies And Basic Affect 32:03 Training Emotional Flexibility 38:42 Rewiring Predictions Over Time 41:45 Letting Go Of Convictions
September 9 · 44 min
The Hidden Rules Holding Society Together: Steven Pinker on Common Knowledge
Why do we speak in euphemisms instead of saying exactly what we mean? Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christoph Koch sat down with cognitive scientist and bestselling author Steven Pinker to explore common knowledge — not what everyone knows, but what everyone knows that everyone knows. Get it? Common knowledge is an awareness of something that is public or “out there” and it has an enormous impact on our social, political, and economic lives. From unspoken rules of flirtation to the fall of the Berlin Wall, Pinker reveals how the social force of common knowledge shapes everything from our most intimate relationships to global financial markets. His work illuminates central ideas of the Perception Box, a framework developed by Elizabeth R. Koch for understanding the forces within us that shape how we see ourselves, relate to others, and move through the world. Steven Pinker is the Johnstone Family Professor in the Department of Psychology at Harvard University where he conducts research on language, cognition, and social relations. Pinker is the author of thirteen books, including his latest book When Everyone Knows That Everyone Knows… and seminal texts like The Language Instinct, The Blank Slate, and How the Mind Works. His writing has appeared in The New York Times, Time and The Atlantic. Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City. Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science. Join us for new episodes of Science of Perception Box every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. Love Science of Perception Box? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend! Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information. Episode Chapters: 00:00 Why Honesty Fails 02:56 Defining Common Knowledge 06:38 Awkwardness and Innuendo 15:24 Markets and Shared Beliefs 28:44 Bubbles and Bank Runs 31:05 Freedom of Speech 31:49 Berlin Wall Tipping 32:46 Science Versus Assumptions
September 2 · 44 min
Your Brain Lies to You (And That's a Good Thing): Anil Seth on Consciousness
What if everything you see, hear, and feel isn't real? What if it's just your brain's best prediction of what's real? Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch sat down with neuroscientist and consciousness researcher Anil Seth to explore the profound question of: What is consciousness? Seth's answer might surprise (and even unsettle) you. Consciousness isn't a window onto reality. It's a controlled hallucination constructed by your brain to make sense of a world it can never directly access. These questions of consciousness illuminate central ideas of the Perception Box, a framework developed by Elizabeth R. Koch for understanding the forces within us that shape how we see ourselves, relate to others, and move through the world. Anil Seth is Professor of Cognitive and Computational Neuroscience and Director of the Centre for Consciousness Science at the University of Sussex. He is the author of Being You: A New Science of Consciousness and more than 200 scientific papers. Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City. Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science. Join us for new episodes of Science of Perception Box every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. Love Science of Perception Box? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend! Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information. Chapters: 00:00 Escaping the echo chamber 01:43 Defining consciousness 09:05 Perception as "controlled hallucination" 11:26 Why perception feels like reality (an adaptive illusion) 17:06 When perception shapes social and historical "truth" 19:03 Hallucination as uncontrolled perception 21:57 What is the self? 33:38 Intelligence vs. consciousness 35:42 Anthropomorphizing AI and "bio-chauvinism" 36:10 Biological naturalism: can AI be conscious? 39:44 Should AI be designed to seem conscious? 40:52 Perception Box question
August 26 · 31 min
Overcoming the Victim Mindset with Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman
Psychologist Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman explores the difference between victimhood and victim mindset, explaining why learned helplessness is actually our default state, and how developing agency is the key to transformative change. He discusses vulnerable narcissism, the dangers of excessive accommodation, and why growth requires embracing adversity rather than avoiding discomfort. Plus: why Darth Vader is actually an example of overcoming a victim mindset. Dr. Kaufman’s exploration of the victimhood mindset reveals a central idea of the Perception Box, a framework developed by Elizabeth R. Koch for understanding the forces within us that shape how we see ourselves, relate to others, and move through the world. Scott Barry Kaufman is a psychologist focused on untapped potential and reframing intelligence. He is a professor of psychology at Columbia University and director of the Center for Human Potential. He has written and edited 11 books, with the most recent being Rise Above: Overcome a Victim Mindset. He has written articles for widely respected publications, including The Atlantic, Scientific American, and Harvard Business Review, and he’s also the host of The Psychology Podcast. In addition to teaching at Columbia, he also taught as a professor at NYU and the University of Pennsylvania. Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City. Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science. Join us for new episodes every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever podcasts are found. Love the show? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend about the show. Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information. Episode Chapters: 00:00 Opening 02:53 Defining the Victim Mindset 03:30 Rumination and Entitlement 05:42 Rethinking Learned Helplessness 08:01 Victimhood vs Victim 09:04 Empowerment Traits 09:44 Genes and Resilience 12:22 Vulnerable Narcissism Link 15:59 Escaping Emotional Victimhood 17:00 Agency Over Accommodations 19:18 Letting Kids Fail 24:56 Villain Or Victim Game
August 19 · 45 min
Your Body’s Operating Manual: Andrew Huberman on the Mind-Body Connection
Even though our experiences are shaped by unconscious patterns and bodily sensations, we have the agency to actively transform them simply by staying present and aware. Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch sit down with Stanford neuroscientist and “Huberman Lab” host Andrew Huberman to explore the science of how your brain and body talk to each other, and how you can use that conversation to your advantage. Huberman shares his evidence-based solutions for optimizing brain function, mood, energy, and physical performance in order to learn new skills and behaviors that can transform your life. Huberman’s exploration of the brain-body connection speaks to a central idea of the Perception Box, a framework developed by Elizabeth R. Koch for understanding the forces within us that shape how we see ourselves, relate to others, and move through the world. Andrew Huberman is a Professor of Neurobiology and Ophthalmology at Stanford University School of Medicine and host of the “Huberman Lab” podcast. His newest book, Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body publishes in September 2026 and culminates years of research, lab work, and conversations with scientists. Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City. Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science. Join us for new episodes of Science of Perception Box every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. Love Science of Perception Box? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend! Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information. Chapters: 00:00 Opening 06:33 Yoga Nidra and Tactical Breathing 09:25 What Helps Addiction 14:18 Physiological Sigh 17:37 Naming Shapes Adoption 23:05 Alcohol Health Consensus 26:20 Gut Microbiome and Nutrition 27:42 Sex and Wellbeing 30:56 Sleep, Aging and Melatonin 32:42 Protocols Book Overview 35:18 Letting Go and Faith 37:56 Psychedelics 39:44 Perception Box Questions
August 12 · 49 min
Stop Trying to Fix People: Mel Robbins on the Power of Letting Go
How much of your energy is focused on trying to change people who aren't ready to change? Best-selling author and podcast host Mel Robbins joins Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch to explore what happens when you stop trying to control others and start reclaiming your own life. Robbins calls it the “Let Them Theory”: a deceptively simple idea that has struck a nerve with millions worldwide who are using it to address frustration, anxiety, their need for control, and more. Mel’s “Let Them Theory” touches on a central idea of the Perception Box, a framework developed by Elizabeth R. Koch for understanding the forces within us that shape how we see ourselves, relate to others, and move through the world. Mel Robbins is a #1 New York Times bestselling author and host of the award-winning “Mel Robbins Podcast”, with more than 40 million followers worldwide. Her book The Let Them Theory was the top-selling nonfiction title of 2025, selling seven million copies in nine months. Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City. Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science. Join us for new episodes of Science of Perception Box every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. Love Science of Perception Box? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend! Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information. Chapters: 05:09 Introducing Mel Robbins 06:43 Parents And Instinct to Rescue 12:32 Helping Without Pushback 14:27 Annoying Spouse Habits 19:00 “Let Them, Let Me” Boundaries 21:03 Losing Control In Modern Life 26:01 The Cold Tea Test 27:12 Flow State Reset 28:51 Why Let Them Works 31:48 Let Them Let Me Boundaries 33:28 Radical Acceptance in Relationships 37:17 Perception Box Reflections 40:24 People Pleasing as Control 43:01 Let Them or Step In Game
S2 · E201
August 5 · 50 min
How Much Risk Should Kids Take?
Dr. Camilo Ortiz, clinical psychologist and creator of Independence Therapy, joins hosts Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch to unpack why the instinct in modern parenting to protect kids from every risk may be backfiring. Dr. Ortiz explains how a child's Perception BoxTM starts forming almost as soon as they can speak, why parents today wildly overestimate danger despite living in the safest era on record, and how everyday tasks such as chopping vegetables, walking to the store alone can rebuild kids' confidence and resilience. Dr. Camilo Ortiz is board-certified in behavioral and cognitive therapy. He holds an MS and PhD in Clinical Psychology from the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, and serves as a tenured associate psychology professor at Long Island University, bringing 20 years of clinical experience to his role. Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City. Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science. Chapters: 06:39 Independence With Guardrails 13:03 Freedom Versus Neglect 16:26 Getting Lost Builds Confidence 18:55 “When Then” Parenting 23:52 Why Parents Overprotect 28:27 Independence Therapy Basics 31:01 When Freedom Backfires 42:07 Independence Or Interference Join us for new episodes of Science of Perception Box every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. Love Science of Perception Box? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend! Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information.
S2 · E200
July 29 · 1 min
Science of Perception Box is Back with a New Season
Why do two people witness the same event and walk away with entirely different experiences of what happened? Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch return for Season 2 of Science of Perception Box, exploring the invisible framework, the Perception Box™, that shapes how your brain constructs reality, interprets experience, and defines your sense of self. Each week, they sit down with guests including Mel Robbins, Andrew Huberman and Sam Harris to unpack how perception is built, and how you can gain more agency over your own. New episodes weekly. Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City. Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science. Join us for new episodes of Science of Perception Box every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. Love Science of Perception Box? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend. You can even do both! Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information.
S1 · E9
Mar 13, 2025 · 48 min
Psychedelics and the Placebo Effect with Dr. Boris Heifets
Can psychedelics under anesthesia heal trauma? What is the latest research around ketamine, MDMA, and psilocybin? That’s part of what we explore this week on Science of Perception Box. Stanford anesthesiologist Dr. Boris Heifets joins Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christoph Koch to discuss the latest research on the first double-blind study on Ketamine, the placebo effect, and the therapeutic value of anesthesia-induced dreams. Dr. Boris Heifets, MD, PhD, is a board certified anesthesiologist who specializes in providing anesthesia for neurological surgery. He has practiced at Stanford since 2010. After completing residency training at Stanford, Dr. Heifets completed fellowship training in neuroanesthesiology, also at Stanford. In addition to treating patients, Dr. Heifets directs both clinical research and basic neuroscience. His research group studies how new rapid-acting psychiatric therapies like ketamine, MDMA, and psilocybin produce lasting changes in nervous system function, behavior, and therapeutic outcomes. Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City. Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science. Join us for new episodes every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever podcasts are found. Love the show? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend about the show. Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information. Episode Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction (01:34) - Exploring Psychedelics and Anesthesiology (02:53) - Dr. Boris Heifetz's Background (04:32) - Understanding Anesthesia and Consciousness (07:56) - The Therapeutic Potential of Psychedelics (10:48) - Challenges in Psychedelic Research (18:00) - Innovative Approaches in Psychedelic Medicine (24:35) - Introduction to the Study and Consent Process (24:50) - Patient Interviews and Priming for Ketamine (25:33) - Surgical Anesthesia and Placebo Effect (26:28) - Unexpected Placebo Findings (26:45) - Implications for Psychedelic Studies (27:32) - Harnessing the Placebo Effect (31:47) - Dream States and Anesthesia (38:22) - Transformative Experiences in Clinical Care (42:53) - Personal Reflections and Gratitude (47:07) - Conclusion and Final Thoughts
S1 · E8
Mar 6, 2025 · 44 min
Is Time Real? How Your Brain Perceives the Past with Dr. Lila Davachi
Ever wonder why time seems to fly or crawl? From ancient philosophers to modern neuroscientists, the nature of time has captivated human curiosity. This week on Science of Perception Box, we investigate the relationships among time, memory, and perception. Dr. Davachi shares the mechanisms of how the brain encodes and retrieves memories, including why emotions and feelings play a role in our perception of time. Lila Davachi is a prominent neuroscientist known for her research in the field of memory. She earned her PhD from Yale University in 1999 and currently holds a faculty position at Columbia University, where she leads the Davachi Memory Lab. Her work primarily focuses on understanding the processes of memory encoding, consolidation, and retrieval through behavioral and cognitive neuroscientific methods. Dr. Davachi has made significant contributions to the understanding of how memories are formed and maintained in the brain. She has published extensively in academic journals, with her research being highly cited within the scientific community. In addition to her research, she is actively involved in teaching and mentoring students in psychology and neuroscience. Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City. Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation as well as the current Meritorious Investigator and Former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science. Join us for new episodes every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music or wherever podcasts are found. Love the show? Write us a review on your podcast app or tell a friend about the show. Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information. Episode Chapters: (00:00) - Exploring Memory and Perception (04:19) - The Role of Emotions in Memory (13:32) - Therapeutic Approaches to Memory (19:25) - Time Perception and Memory (24:55) - Impact of the Pandemic on Brain Health (25:16) - Memory and Context During the Pandemic (27:34) - The Paradox of Time Perception (28:28) - Balancing Stability and Change for Mental Health (29:36) - Flow States and Time Perception (30:27) - Personal Experiences with Time Distortion (34:37) - The Construct of Time and Memory (37:34) - Perception Box Questions (43:35) - Closing Thoughts
S1 · E7
Feb 27, 2025 · 38 min
Why Your Brain Needs Awe and Wonder with Dr. Dacher Keltner
When was the last time you felt absolutely mesmerized by something beautiful? Whether it’s seeing a breathtaking vista, losing yourself in a piece of music, or being in a crowd cheering for the same team, the feeling of awe can be all-encompassing and expansive. This week on Science of Perception Box, Dr. Dacher Keltner, one of the world’s foremost emotion scientists and a scientific advisor behind Pixar’s Inside Out, shares how we can cultivate more awe in our life and why we need this sometimes overlooked emotion. Dr. Keltner is a professor of psychology at UC Berkeley and the faculty director of the Greater Good Science Center. He has over 200 scientific publications and six books, including Born to Be Good, The Compassionate Instinct, and The Power Paradox. Dr. Keltner is involved with the education of health care providers and judges and has consulted extensively for Google, Apple, and Pinterest on issues related to emotion and well-being. Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School Of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City. Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for The Tiny Blue Dot Foundation as well as the current Meritorious investigator and Former President of the Allen Institute For Brain Science. Join us for new episodes every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music or wherever podcasts are found. Love the show? Write us a review on your podcast app or tell a friend about the show. Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information. Episode Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction (01:35) - Exploring the Concept of Awe (02:33) - Personal Experiences of Awe (04:05) - Defining and Studying Awe (05:00) - Awe Across Cultures (07:02) - Physiological and Emotional Aspects of Awe (12:34) - Awe in Animals and Evolution (16:34) - Awe and Mental Health (20:31) - Babies in Tunnels: A Surprising Reaction (21:10) - The Role of Novelty in Experiencing Awe (22:29) - Cynicism vs. Awe: A Battle of Perspectives (23:29) - Digital Technology and Artificial Awe (24:27) - Awe and PTSD: Healing Through Nature (27:16) - The Complexity of Awe: Positive and Negative Emotions (31:30) - Finding Awe in Everyday Life (34:37) - The Power of Awe in Difficult Times (37:38) - Final Thoughts and Reflections
S1 · E6
Feb 20, 2025 · 48 min
Cultivating More Childhood Wonder with Dr. Alison Gopnik
How can parents embrace science in order to give their children the best possible environment to thrive in? Cognitive development expert Dr. Alison Gopnik joins us to discuss how navigating challenges fosters healthier adults, likening caregiving to being a gardener creating an environment where various ”plants” can thrive in different conditions. Exposing children to diverse environments helps them develop better coping mechanisms, akin to how the immune system strengthens against viruses. Dr. Gopnik is a professor at the University of California at Berkeley, where she has taught since 1988. She is a world leader in cognitive science, particularly the study of children’s learning and development. She is the author of over 100 journal articles and several books including the best-selling and critically acclaimed popular books The Scientist in the Crib, The Philosophical Baby, and The Gardener and the Carpenter. She is a fellow of the Cognitive Science Society and the American Association for the Advancement of Science and a member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences. Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City. Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science. Join us for new episodes every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever podcasts are found. Love the show? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend about the show. Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information. Episode Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction (01:41) - Understanding Child Development (03:58) - Children as Natural Learners (05:18) - Causal Inference in Children (11:10) - Exploration vs. Exploitation (15:40) - Adults vs. Children: Learning and Attention (19:23) - Novelty and Creativity in Adulthood (25:51) - Children's Social Problem-Solving Abilities (28:17) - The Role of Caregiving in Human Evolution (34:49) - Balancing Safety and Exploration in Parenting (41:51) - AI Learning vs. Child Learning (43:57) - Perception Box Questions and Reflections
S1 · E5
Feb 13, 2025 · 45 min
Why Did We Evolve to Feel Romantic Love? with Dr. Helen Fisher
We long for love. We die for love. We kill for love. But why do we love? Cohosts Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christoph Koch ask this question to Helen Fisher, PhD. who dedicated her career to researching romantic love. In this episode of Science of Perception Box, we explore how the act of being in love or out of love changes how we view ourselves and the world around us. Dr. Fisher was a biological anthropologist, Senior Research Fellow at The Kinsey Institute, and Chief Science Advisor to Match.com. She used brain scanning (fMRI) to study the neural systems associated with the sex drive, romantic love, attachment, rejection, love addiction, long-term partnership happiness, and the biological foundations of human personality. She conducted extensive research on the evolution, biology, and psychology of human sexuality, monogamy, adultery, and divorce. Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City. Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science. Join us for new episodes every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever podcasts are found. Love the show? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend about the show. Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information. Episode Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction to the Science of Perception Box (02:03) - Exploring Love and Heartbreak (05:16) - The Brain Chemistry of Love (06:41) - The Evolutionary Purpose of Love (09:35) - The Complexities of Romantic Relationships (20:53) - The Impact of Rejection and Heartbreak (24:10) - The Distraction Test and Emotional Response (25:15) - Love as an Addiction (27:31) - Phases of Breakup and Emotional Recovery (31:21) - The Concept of Slow Love (33:05) - Impact of Internet on Modern Dating (38:58) - Perception Box Questions (44:57) - Final Reflections and Closing Thoughts
S1 · E4
Feb 6, 2025 · 48 min
How Does Our Cultural Identity Influence Us? with Dr. Daphna Oyserman
Our cultural lenses can expand our Perception Box or contract it, keeping us closed off to new opportunities. So how do we become aware of the personal influences that shape our perceptions? In this episode of Science of Perception Box, cohosts Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christoph Koch discuss the impact of cultural differences on identity and mindsets with guest Dr. Daphna Oyserman. Dr. Oyserman shares her insights on how small changes in context can significantly affect our mindset and choices, impacting our health and academic performance. Dr. Daphna Oyserman is a Dean’s Professor of Psychology and Professor of Psychology and Education at the University of Southern California. Dr. Oyserman received a PhD in psychology and social work from the University of Michigan and served on the faculty of The Hebrew University, Jerusalem, before returning to the University of Michigan where she last held appointments as the Edwin J. Thomas Collegiate Professor of Social Work, Professor of Psychology, and Research Professor in the Institute for Social Research. Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City. Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science. Join us for new episodes every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever podcasts are found. Love the show? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend about the show. Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information. Episode Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction (02:19) - Cultural Identity and Understanding Cultural Differences (05:26) - The Role of Culture in Society (07:24) - Cultural Norms and Time Perception (11:27) - Identity and Self-Perception (13:54) - Culture and Motivation (20:10) - Perception of Difficulty and Cultural Narratives (23:00) - The Dilemma of Difficulty: When to Persevere or Pivot (24:00) - Cultural Perspectives on Difficulty and Success (28:14) - The Role of Talent vs. Hard Work in Achievement (31:37) - Shifting Mindsets: Small Changes, Big Impacts (34:49) - Procrastination and the Future Self (38:21) - Teaching the Value of Hard Work to Kids (42:34) - The Influence of Culture on Persistence (45:57) - Concluding Thoughts and Reflections
S1 · E3
Jan 30, 2025 · 51 min
A Case of Mistaken Identity with Dr. Dan Siegel
What is the mind? Does the mind exist only in your own Perception Box, or is there a greater connection of consciousness? In this episode of Science of Perception Box, cohosts Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christoph Koch discuss the interconnectedness of the mind, the impact of implicit memories from infancy on childhood attachment, and the wheel of awareness with Dr. Dan Siegel. Dr. Siegel shares his research and practices on healing unresolved trauma, preventing burnout for caregivers and medical professionals, and channeling the Perception Box-expanding power of empathy. Dr. Siegel is the Executive Director of the Mindsight Institute and Founding Co-Director of the Mindful Awareness Research Center at UCLA, where he was also Co-Principal Investigator of the Center for Culture, Brain, and Development and Clinical Professor at the School of Medicine. An award-winning educator, he is a Distinguished Fellow of the American Psychiatric Association and recipient of several honorary fellowships. He has authored numerous articles and books, including five New York Times bestsellers. Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City. Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science. Join us for new episodes every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever podcasts are found. Love the show? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend about the show. Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information. Episode Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction (02:23) - Defining the Mind (03:34) - The Concept of Mindsight (06:55) - Empathy and Compassion in Medicine (15:51) - Implicit and Explicit Memory (22:34) - Therapeutic Insights and Transformative Experiences (27:03) - Exploring the Mind and Energy Flow (27:29) - Chaos and Rigidity in Patients (28:51) - Discovering Complex Systems and Emergence (31:15) - The Wheel of Awareness (32:21) - Integration of Consciousness Practice (33:52) - Therapeutic Value of Pure Consciousness (36:31) - Redefining the Self and Modern Culture (42:39) - Personal Reflections and Overcoming Childhood Fears (49:53) - The Power of Therapy and Brain Plasticity (51:04) - Closing Thoughts
S1 · E2
Jan 23, 2025 · 46 min
How Food Affects Your Mind with Michael Pollan
Humans have a symbiotic relationship with plants. Plants coevolved to suit our desires for nourishment, beauty, and altering consciousness. Journalist Michael Pollan has investigated the human connection to plants. This week on Science of Perception Box, Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch ask Pollan about modern trends like ultra-processed foods, industrialized agriculture, and consciousness-altering drugs from plants including caffeine, cannabis, and psychedelics. For more than 30 years, Michael Pollan has been writing books and articles about the places where the human and natural worlds intersect: on our plates, in our farms and gardens, and in our minds. Pollan is the author of eight books, six of which have been New York Times bestsellers. In 2003, Pollan was appointed the John S. and James L. Knight Professor of Journalism at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism and the director of the Knight Program in Science and Environmental Journalism. In 2020, along with Dacher Keltner and others, he cofounded the UC Berkeley Center for the Science of Psychedelics. Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City. Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science. Join us for new episodes every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever podcasts are found. Love the show? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend about the show. Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information. Episode Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction (02:26) - The Profound Impact of Food on Mood and Perception (04:17) - Exploring Ultra-Processed Foods and Their Effects (06:45) - The Psychological and Physiological Effects of Food (10:29) - The Connection Between Food, Culture, and Education (17:46) - Michael Pollan's Journey into Food and Agriculture (21:42) - The Symbiotic Relationship Between Humans and Plants (22:55) - The Human Desire to Alter Consciousness (25:15) - The Transparent Experience of Coffee (25:47) - Caffeine's Benefits and Drawbacks (26:38) - Exploring Consciousness-Altering Substances (27:18) - Psychedelics and Cultural Evolution (29:02) - Creativity and Psychedelics (32:52) - The Nature of Ego and Consciousness (41:11) - Public vs. Private Self (45:31) - Conclusion and Final Thoughts
S1 · E1
Jan 16, 2025 · 42 min
How Curiosity Quiets Anxiety with Dr. Judson Brewer
Anxiety can make us feel like we’re trapped in our brain. So how do we open the door and gain freedom? This week in our inaugural episode, Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch invite Dr. Judson Brewer to discuss the habit loops that increase anxiety, why anxiety contracts our Perception Box, and what steps we can take to change our relationship with anxiety and understand its evolutionary benefit. Dr. Judson Brewer studies the neural mechanisms of mindfulness. He is the Director of Research and Innovation at Brown University’s Mindfulness Center, where he’s also an Associate Professor at the School of Medicine. Dr. Brewer is a leading expert in the science of self-mastery and breaking habits. His books include Unwinding Anxiety, The Craving Mind, and The Hunger Habit. Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City. Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science. Join us for new episodes every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever podcasts are found. Love the show? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend about the show. Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information. Episode Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction (02:45) - Dr. Judson Brewer (05:54) - Habit Loops of Anxiety (08:16) - Breaking the Worry Cycle (10:52) - Will Power is a Myth (14:40) - Trigger, Behavior & Result (17:06) - Breaking Overeating Habit Loops (19:48) - The Feeling Body (22:40) - Opening the Perception Box (25:09) - Bigger Better Offers (28:01) - Curiosity, Compassion and Perception (31:40) - How Anxiety Can Box You In (35:14) - Learning to Allow Anxiety (36:05) - We Create Our Perception Boxes (37:40) - Perception Box Questions
Dec 5, 2024 · 1 min
Introducing: Science of Perception Box
Join renowned scientists Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch on the Science of Perception Box, where they delve into the Perception Box—a groundbreaking concept developed by Elizabeth R. Koch, that reveals how our beliefs, biases, and neural wiring shape our reality and define how we experience the world. Through captivating conversations with expert guests like psychiatrist Dr. Judson Brewer, anthropologist Dr. Helen Fisher, and journalist Michael Pollan, the show explores how the Perception Box expands in states of awe, curiosity, and love, and contracts during fear, anxiety, or anger. From mindfulness and romantic relationships to psychedelics and human connection, each episode uncovers transformative insights into unlocking greater awareness, fostering curiosity, and reshaping how we perceive the world. New episodes drop every Thursday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Follow the journey and redefine your reality.

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