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Out and Back

Jacob Thomson and Rory Linkletter

Rory Linkletter and Jacob Thomson are professional marathoners chasing fast times and big goals on the roads. Training out of Flagstaff, Arizona, they’ve got plenty of stories from the grind of big mileage, the chaos of race travel, the highs and lows of racing on the world stage and the random stuff that happens between workouts. With a passion for storytelling, running culture, and building community, Rory and Jacob bring listeners behind the scenes of the marathon lifestyle. Training talk with a few detours.

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  • 31 episodes
  • weekly
  • Avg 1 hr 8 min
  • English

Episodes 31

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  • Yesterday · 1 hr 7 min

    #59 - Between Reps - Shout Out Chicago!

    Fresh off Chicago Marathon weekend, Jacob and Rory are back in Flagstaff to break down the biggest performances, surprises, and takeaways from the race. In a special “Shout Out Chicago” episode, they discuss Vinny Mauri's aggressive race strategy, Clayton Young's incredible performance, Galen Rupp's American masters record, and the growing depth of American marathoning. They also share behind-the-scenes stories from pacing Sharon Lokedi and Dakotah Popehn, discuss the impact of the weather, and make a surprise phone call to Clayton Young. Plus, highlights from their first live show and how Chicago has fueled their motivation heading into Valencia and CIM. Our Sponsors: Blizzard: Explore the Canvas Collection, where athlete-tested ski performance meets original artwork. You can check out the Blizzard Canvas collection at: https://bit.ly/blizzard-outandback Cure Hydration: Stay hydrated with great-tasting electrolytes made with coconut water, pink Himalayan salt, and real fruit. Get 20% off at curehydration.com/outandback with code OUTANDBACK. OS1st: Keep your feet supported and comfortable with performance socks and recovery gear. Shop at os1st.com and use code OUTANDBACK or JACOB10 for a discount. Squirrel's Nut Butter: Prevent chafing and stay comfortable on every run with Flagstaff-made anti-chafe products. Shop at squirrelsnutbutter.com and use code OUTANDBACK or JACOB10 for a discount. Floss Point: Get your muscles moving and relieve tightness before your next run with Floss Point bands. Use code OUTANDBACK or JACOB10 for a discount. Fleet Feet: Find running shoes, gear, and expert support at your local Fleet Feet, with 10 locations in Chicago and hundreds nationwide. Visit fleetfeet.com. Merch Store: https://outandback.shop/ Coaching: Jacob’s Coaching Website Rory’s Coaching Website Join our newsletter ⁠Join our Strava group⁠ Follow us: Jacob’s YouTube ⁠Rory’s YouTube⁠ Out And Back YouTube ⁠Rory’s Strava⁠ ⁠Jacob’s Strava⁠ ⁠Rory’s Instagram⁠ ⁠Jacob’s Instagram⁠ SandyBoy Productions

  • October 12 · 1 hr 8 min

    #58 - Live from Chicago with Eric Floberg: Berlin Reflections, Race Day Strategy & Marathon Predictions

    The Out & Back Podcast hits the road for its first-ever live show! Recorded at Fleet Feet the day before the Chicago Marathon, Rory Linkletter and Jacob are joined by Chicago's own Eric Floberg for a conversation about racing, training, and everything that comes with marathon weekend. Eric opens up about his recent Berlin Marathon, where a difficult lead-up and unexpected challenges kept him from the race he had hoped for. The three discuss what happens when a marathon doesn't go to plan, the mental side of racing, and the lessons that come from chasing big goals. They also look ahead to Chicago with course insights, race day advice, bold predictions, and questions from the live audience. It's a special episode celebrating the running community that has grown around Out & Back over its first year. Support our Sponsors: Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.meteopace.com/redeem⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code: OUTANDBACK ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ AquaOmega: For your daily dose of Omega-3’s, go to myaquaomega.com/OUTANDBACK and use code OUTANDBACK for 20% off. OS1st: Your shoes are only half the battle on race day! OS1st makes performance socks with targeted compression, including their lightweight Thin Air socks designed to keep your feet cool and comfortable. Find them at os1st.com or your local Fleet Feet. GIVEAWAY: We're giving away 20 pairs of OS1st Thin Air socks! Head to our Instagram to enter for your chance to win. Transparent Labs: Fuel your training with protein, creatine, electrolytes, and more from Transparent Labs. Use code FLAGSTAFF for a discount on your first order. Merch Store: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://outandback.shop/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Coaching: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Coaching Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Coaching Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join our newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join our Strava group⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Out And Back YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Strava⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Strava⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠SandyBoy Productions⁠

  • October 4 · 1 hr 14 min

    #57 - Chicago Predictions

    Fall marathon season is here. Rory and Jacob catch up on their own training before recapping Berlin and looking ahead to Chicago, including their picks for the top Americans, the women’s race up front, and the athletes they’re watching. Then, with Chicago around the corner, they break down their approach to the final weeks of marathon training: when to schedule the last big workout, how much to taper, what to do when training doesn’t go to plan, and why the biggest goal now is simply not screwing up all the work you’ve already done. Plus, updates on Valencia and CIM, pacing duties in Chicago, and the Out & Back live show. Support our Sponsors: Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.meteopace.com/redeem⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code: OUTANDBACK ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK⁠⁠⁠⁠ AquaOmega: For your daily dose of Omega-3’s, go to myaquaomega.com/OUTANDBACK and use code OUTANDBACK for 20% off. Transparent Labs: Fuel your training with protein, creatine, electrolytes, and more from Transparent Labs. Use code FLAGSTAFF for a discount on your first order. Merch Store: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://outandback.shop/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Coaching: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Coaching Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Coaching Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join our newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join our Strava group⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Out And Back YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Strava⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Strava⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠SandyBoy Productions⁠

  • September 27 · 54 min

    #56 - Jadyn Keeler Breaks the Canadian Record + What’s Next in the Marathon

    Fresh off a Canadian half marathon record, Jadyn Keeler joins Rory and Jacob in Flagstaff to break down her 68:03 performance at the World Road Running Championships in Copenhagen. Jadyn shares how the race unfolded, what changed during her first training block in Flagstaff, and how years of patient development at the University of North Dakota helped set up her breakout performance. She also talks about training under Terrence Mahon, her plans to make her marathon debut this spring, and her bigger goal of making Canada’s 2028 Olympic marathon team. Plus, Rory and Jacob recap the rest of Copenhagen, including the standout performances, the American results, and Rory’s own experience racing Worlds. Support our Sponsors: Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at ⁠⁠⁠https://www.meteopace.com/redeem⁠⁠⁠ Code: OUTANDBACK ⁠⁠⁠https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK⁠⁠⁠ AquaOmega: For your daily dose of Omega-3’s, go to myaquaomega.com/OUTANDBACK and use code OUTANDBACK for 20% off. Merch Store: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://outandback.shop/⁠⁠⁠⁠ Coaching: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Coaching Website⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Coaching Website⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Join our newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join our Strava group⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Out And Back YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Strava⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Strava⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠SandyBoy Productions⁠

  • September 20 · 1 hr

    #55 - Vinny Mauri’s 45-Mile Workout Days + World Road Running Champs Preview

    Rory is in Copenhagen for the World Road Running Championships, Jacob is getting ready to open his season at the Cow Harbor 10K, and Vinny Mauri joins the show three weeks out from the Chicago Marathon. Vinny takes us inside the unconventional training that has taken over Strava, including 45-mile workout days, 140-mile weeks, massive treadmill sessions at Planet Fitness, and 11 long runs over 25 miles. He explains why he’s leaned so heavily into volume, how he’s making the marathon feel “short,” where his confidence comes from heading into Chicago, and how he plans to taper after his biggest training block yet. Before and after Vinny, Rory and Jacob preview the World Road Running Championships, catch up on their own training and racing, and break down World Ultimate. Plus, the guys announce an Out & Back live event during Chicago Marathon weekend. Grab your tickets here: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/out-back-podcast-with-rory-linkletter-and-jacob-thomson-tickets-2000969887799 Merch Store: ⁠⁠⁠https://outandback.shop/⁠⁠⁠ Coaching: ⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Coaching Website⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Coaching Website⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Join our newsletter⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Join our Strava group⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Out And Back YouTube⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Strava⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Strava⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠SandyBoy Productions⁠

  • September 13 · 59 min

    #54 - Ahmed Muhumed Takes on the Marathon

    Ahmed Muhumed joins Jacob and Rory ahead of the World Road Running Championships in Copenhagen and his highly anticipated marathon debut at the New York City Marathon. Ahmed talks about what has changed as he makes the jump to 26.2, including running the highest mileage of his career, taking fueling seriously for the first time, and learning from some of the best marathoners around him. He also turns the tables on Jacob and Rory to ask what they’ve learned from their own marathon experience, from surviving the inevitable rough patches to fueling, bottle chaos and building legs that can handle the distance. They also get into why Ahmed specifically chose New York for his debut, studying every NYC Marathon since 2014, training with a stacked NAZ Elite crew, and what he needs to learn over the next year and a half to put himself in position to contend for the 2028 Olympic team. Support our Sponsors: Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at ⁠⁠https://www.meteopace.com/redeem⁠⁠ Code: OUTANDBACK ⁠⁠https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK⁠⁠ AquaOmega: For your daily dose of Omega-3’s, go to myaquaomega.com/OUTANDBACK and use code OUTANDBACK for 20% off. Merch Store: ⁠⁠https://outandback.shop/⁠⁠ Coaching: ⁠⁠Jacob’s Coaching Website⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Rory’s Coaching Website⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Join our newsletter⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Join our Strava group⁠⁠⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠Jacob’s YouTube⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Rory’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Out And Back YouTube⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Strava⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Strava⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠SandyBoy Productions⁠

  • September 6 · 1 hr 11 min

    #53 - Jess McClain Is Thinking Bigger: Boston, World Champs & NYC

    Jess McClain is back on Out & Back, and a lot has changed since her first visit. After finishing as the top American and setting the American course record at the Boston Marathon, Jess says the conversation has shifted. Being the top American is still meaningful, but now she wants to see herself as a factor internationally and start thinking about podiums. Jess joins Jacob and Rory from Flagstaff as she prepares to represent Team USA at the World Half Marathon Championships in Copenhagen before turning her attention to the New York City Marathon. They talk about her close second-place finish at Falmouth, how her mindset around marathon training has changed, the gear-shifting workouts that used to intimidate her, and why she actually turned around for a bottle during Boston. They also get into clean sport and drug testing, balancing professional running with a life and career outside of the sport, and Jess's new role as a small part owner of The Marathon Project. Plus, Jess shares what she wants out of Copenhagen, including why an American record isn't out of the question, even if racing the people around her comes first. Support our Sponsors: Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at ⁠https://www.meteopace.com/redeem⁠ Code: OUTANDBACK ⁠https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK⁠ AquaOmega: For your daily dose of Omega-3’s, go to myaquaomega.com/OUTANDBACK and use code OUTANDBACK for 20% off. Merch Store: ⁠https://outandback.shop/⁠ Coaching: ⁠Jacob’s Coaching Website⁠ ⁠Rory’s Coaching Website⁠ ⁠Join our newsletter⁠ ⁠⁠Join our Strava group⁠⁠ Follow us: ⁠Jacob’s YouTube⁠ ⁠⁠Rory’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠ ⁠ ⁠Out And Back YouTube⁠ ⁠⁠Rory’s Strava⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Jacob’s Strava⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Rory’s Instagram⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Jacob’s Instagram⁠⁠ ⁠SandyBoy Productions⁠

  • August 30 · 1 hr 8 min

    #52 - Mailbag Episode: Yomif's World Record, World Ultimate Wild Cards, and Listener Q&A

    Episode 52 kicks off with the announcement of the Out and Back live show at Chicago Marathon weekend, Saturday noon at Fleet Feet Chicago, 100-125 tickets at $15 a pop with a swag bag worth way more than that. Then it's current events: Seb Coe gives Jakob and Kerr wild cards for the World Ultimate Championships so we get the matchup everyone wants, Ethan Strand wins a Diamond League in his first race since Jonah Koech's doping ban was announced, Parker Wolf and Graham Blanks run down Cameron Myers at Zurich, and Yomif Kejelcha runs 56:51 in Buenos Aires for a world record that has some people asking questions about the splits. They also get into the unusual nitrous drink, Sawe scratching from Berlin, and Valencia potentially becoming the fall race of the year. Then it's the mailbag: mistakes athletes make that are easily fixed, training in hot climates, top three exercises for durability, hills, double threshold, why they don't do it twice a week, and where the marathon and half marathon records land by 2030. Support our Sponsors: Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at ⁠https://www.meteopace.com/redeem⁠ Code: OUTANDBACK ⁠https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK⁠ AquaOmega: For your daily dose of Omega-3’s, go to myaquaomega.com/OUTANDBACK and use code OUTANDBACK for 20% off. Merch Store: ⁠https://outandback.shop/⁠ Coaching: ⁠Jacob’s Coaching Website⁠ ⁠Rory’s Coaching Website⁠ ⁠Join our newsletter⁠ ⁠⁠Join our Strava group⁠⁠ Follow us: ⁠Jacob’s YouTube⁠ ⁠⁠Rory’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠ ⁠ ⁠Out And Back YouTube⁠ ⁠⁠Rory’s Strava⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Jacob’s Strava⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Rory’s Instagram⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Jacob’s Instagram⁠⁠ ⁠SandyBoy Productions

  • #51
    August 23 · 1 hr 12 min

    #51 - Between Reps: NYC Fields, Edmonton Half, European Champs, Race Schedule Updates

    Jacob is in Kelowna visiting John Gay, and Rory is back in Flagstaff holding it down after defending his Canadian Half Marathon championship in Edmonton, on a course that turned out to be too long. They break down the race, Rory's Tour de France style breakaway attack at 8K and the backwards finish line crossing. Then it's on to European Championships: Jakob's return after ten months away, Almgren lapping the field in the 10K and then announcing a surprise marathon debut at New York City, and Femke Bol continuing her 800 meter experiment with another PR. The crew runs a snake draft of the New York City pro marathon fields, Rory announces his Brussels hour run was canceled, Jacob confirms he's out of Chicago and headed to Valencia and CIM instead, and they close out with the Jonah Koech doping suspension: a US 1500 champion caught by the biological passport, quietly banned for a year before anyone said anything publicly. Support our Sponsors: Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at https://www.meteopace.com/redeem Code: OUTANDBACK https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK AquaOmega: For your daily dose of Omega-3’s, go to myaquaomega.com/OUTANDBACK and use code OUTANDBACK for 20% off. Merch Store: https://outandback.shop/ Coaching: Jacob’s Coaching Website Rory’s Coaching Website Join our newsletter ⁠Join our Strava group⁠ Follow us: Jacob’s YouTube ⁠Rory’s YouTube⁠ Out And Back YouTube ⁠Rory’s Strava⁠ ⁠Jacob’s Strava⁠ ⁠Rory’s Instagram⁠ ⁠Jacob’s Instagram⁠ SandyBoy Productions

  • #50
    August 16 · 1 hr 21 min

    #50: The Call-In Show: Hot Takes, Marathon Relay Drafts, and Desert Island Training Questions

    Episode 50 means it's time for another call-in show. Six guests phone in with hot takes, hypotheticals, and questions Jacob and Rory answer completely on the fly. No prep, no notes, just riffing. Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at ⁠⁠https://www.meteopace.com/redeem⁠⁠ Code: OUTANDBACK ⁠⁠https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Join our Strava group⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Buy merch: https://outandback.shop/⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Out And Back YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Strava⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Strava⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Coaching Website⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory's Coaching Website⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠SandyBoy Productions

  • #49
    August 9 · 1 hr 9 min

    #49 Truett Hanes on Chasing the OTQ and Going All In on a Goal That Scares You

    ⁠Buy merch: https://outandback.shop/⁠ Truett Hanes is in Flagstaff for a three-week training camp, halfway through it when this was recorded, and it's the most structured he's ever approached running. You probably know him from the pull-up world record, the blue jean marathons, or the Leadville 100 buckle, but now he's locked in on one thing: the Olympic Trials qualifier. Rory coaches him through Let's Tango, and this conversation covers how someone who bulldozed their way to a 2:29 on pure willpower had to completely rethink their approach, what the training has looked like in Flagstaff, and why the jump from 2:30 to OTQ is a different animal than anything he's done before. They also get into the haters, his dad's 11-minute marathon PR at 58, what it actually means to call your shot publicly, and some genuinely good advice on storytelling and content for anyone trying to build an audience around a big goal. Goodr: Upgrade your eyewear by heading to goodr.com/OUTANDBACK to claim $10 off your first order. Aqua Omega: a high dose, concentrated omega-3 from sustainably sourced anchovies, third-party tested, no fish burps, and for every bottle sold they remove one pound of plastic from the ocean. Use code OUTNBACK for 20% off at myAquaOmega.com/outandback Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off https://www.meteopace.com/redeem Code: OUTANDBACK https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK Merch Store: https://outandback.shop/ Coaching: Jacob’s Coaching Website Rory’s Coaching Website Join our newsletter ⁠Join our Strava group⁠ Follow us: Jacob’s YouTube ⁠Rory’s YouTube⁠ Out And Back YouTube ⁠Rory’s Strava⁠ ⁠Jacob’s Strava⁠ ⁠Rory’s Instagram⁠ ⁠Jacob’s Instagram ⁠SandyBoy Productions ⁠⁠⁠

  • July 30 · 1 hr 6 min

    #48 Vincent Ciattei on Winning the US 5000m Title, Training as a Miler at Altitude, and the Dark Sky Squad

    ⁠Buy merch: https://outandback.shop/⁠ Vincent Ciattei comes straight off USA Track and Field Championships in New York where he finished second in the 1500 by five hundredths of a second, sent a message to his college group chat saying he was winning the 5K the next day, and then did exactly that. First Dark Sky teammate on the pod, and one of the more interesting training conversations the show has had. Vincent is a 3:48 miler running 90-mile weeks at 7,000 feet, doing double threshold, hill circuits at Marshall Lake, and long tempos down in Camp Verde, and this year it all clicked. They get into what a training cycle actually looks like for a mid-distance guy, how he thinks about threshold intensity control, why the 5K is becoming a legitimate weapon for elite milers, what Dark Sky's massive training group brings out in each other, and the broader conversation around why the best Americans keep skipping USAs in off years and what could be done about it. Goodr: Upgrade your eyewear by heading to goodr.com/OUTANDBACK to claim $10 off your first order. Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off https://www.meteopace.com/redeem Code: OUTANDBACK https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK ⁠⁠Join our Strava group⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Out And Back YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Strava⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Strava⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Coaching Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory's Coaching Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠SandyBoy Productions

  • July 26 · 1 hr 4 min

    #47 Between Reps: Josh Kerr's Record, USAs, and Training Updates

    MERCH: https://outandback.shop/ Jacob and Rory are back in Flagstaff after weeks on the road, and Jacob gives an update on his Achilles: no pain in four weeks, mileage climbing back up, and marathon training officially back on. They dig into the Chicago Marathon field announcement, with Sharon Lokedi as the headline story and a stacked American men's field chasing fast times. Then Josh Kerr's mile world record takes over, from the race itself to whether he could go after the 1500m record next, and why USA Outdoor Championships keep losing their biggest names to Europe. They close out with listener questions on training locations, gear from their college days, favorite non-major marathons, and what kids at running camp do better than grown adults. https://www.thomsontraining.run/ https://www.letstango.run/ Goodr: Upgrade your eyewear by heading to goodr.com/OUTANDBACK to claim $10 off your first order. Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off https://www.meteopace.com/redeem Code: OUTANDBACK https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK

  • #46
    July 19 · 58 min

    #46 Madey Dickson on Running 2:28 at Boston, Working Full Time as a Nurse, and Chasing Big Goals at Berlin

    Madey Dickson is a full-time ICU and ER nurse who runs 100 miles a week, smashed the OTQ by nine minutes at Boston, and won Puma's Project Three, all while working 12-hour shifts. Rory coaches her and they were teammates at BYU, where she was a middle distance runner who stumbled into the marathon almost by accident. They talk training around a nurse's schedule, self belief, the Berlin build, and what the 2028 Olympic Trials could look like for her. Goodr: Upgrade your eyewear by heading to goodr.com/OUTANDBACK to claim $10 off your first order. ⁠⁠Join our Strava group⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Buy merch: https://outandback.shop/⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Out And Back YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Strava⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Strava⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Coaching Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory's Coaching Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠SandyBoy Productions

  • #45
    July 12 · 1 hr 3 min

    #45 Between Reps - Summer Heat Training, Josh Kerr's World Record Attempt, and Fall Marathon Field Rumors With Chris Striegel

    Jacob, Rory, and Chris Striegel of the Life in Stride Podcast check in for a between reps episode packed with summer training talk and fall marathon buzz. They start with heat training -- what Chris is doing in Kentucky with a newborn, what Jacob survived in Orange Beach, and how to stop panicking about pace when it's 90 degrees and humid. They recap their Fourth of July races in Lexington and Rory's athlete Madey Dixon winning the downtown Flagstaff Mile in a course record. Then it's current events: Josh Kerr's world record attempt in the mile, Faith Kipyegon's first 1500 loss in five years to Nikki Hiltz, and what to watch at USA Track and Field Championships. They close out with fall marathon field speculation, Vinny Mauri's treadmill long run hype, and whether Athing Mu has quietly stepped away from the sport. Follow Chris Join our Strava group⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Buy merch: https://outandback.shop/⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Out And Back YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Strava⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Strava⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Coaching Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory's Coaching Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠SandyBoy Productions

  • July 5 · 1 hr 13 min

    #44 NAZ Elite Coach Jack Mullaney on Building Team Culture, Alex Masai's Breakout, and Marathon Training Philosophy

    Jack Mullaney, head coach of NAZ Elite, joins Jacob and Rory at the Run Flagstaff studio for episode 44. Jack walked into one of the most storied professional running programs in the country two and a half years ago as a first-time head coach, inheriting a team mid-transition and figuring out how to build something that felt like his own. He talks about how he navigated that, what his five C's of coaching actually look like in practice, and why connection is the foundation he keeps coming back to. The conversation gets into the weeds on training philosophy: his three non-negotiables, why he's skeptical of silver bullet trends, and how he thinks about keeping all paces present year-round. They also deep dive into specifics of some of Jack's athletes' training and performances. Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.meteopace.com/redeem⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code: OUTANDBACK ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK⁠⁠⁠ Goodr: Upgrade your eyewear by heading to goodr.com/OUTANDBACK to claim $10 off your first order. ⁠Join our Strava group⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Buy merch: https://outandback.shop/⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Out And Back YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Strava⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Strava⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Coaching Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory's Coaching Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠SandyBoy Productions

  • June 28 · 59 min

    #43 Steph Bruce on 20 Years as a Pro, Founding Picky Bars, the Stamata Project, and What Comes Next

    Steph Bruce joins Jacob and Rory at the new Run Flagstaff studio for episode 43 -- recorded six days after she and Rory both ran the Broken Arrow Sky Race Ascent. They start there, comparing notes on what is genuinely the hardest race either of them has ever done, and why neither of them were as prepared as they thought. From there the conversation opens up into Steph's full arc: the origin of Picky Bars, built out of a Eugene apartment with Lauren Fleshman and Jesse Thomas and eventually sold to Laird Hamilton's company; the NAZ Elite years and what that team did to change how professional running groups operate; her current role leading the Tracksmith Stamata project, which supports women chasing the Olympic Trials qualifier; and where she sees herself going now that trail and uphill racing have entered the picture. Nine Olympic Trials, a 15:17 5K, a 2:27 marathon, and she's still figuring out what's next. Honest, funny, and worth the full listen. Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at ⁠⁠⁠https://www.meteopace.com/redeem⁠⁠⁠ Code: OUTANDBACK ⁠⁠⁠https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK⁠⁠ This episode is brought to you in part by Amazfit. Rory wore the Amazfit T-Rex 3 at Broken Arrow, where pace data goes out the window and elevation, distance, and heart rate are all that matter. Check out his full Broken Arrow race video on his personal YouTube channel here -- one of the best produced videos he's put out yet. Join our Strava group⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Buy merch: https://outandback.shop/⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Out And Back YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Strava⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Strava⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Coaching Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory's Coaching Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠SandyBoy Productions

  • June 21 · 1 hr 18 min

    #42 Listener Q & A - Broken Arrow & MRI Update

    NEW MERCH: https://outandback.shop/⁠ Jacob and Rory check in on what's been a rocky few weeks for Jacob's Achilles -- paratendon inflammation that's forced him to pull most of his summer road races and lean hard into cross training. Rory previews his Broken Arrow Sky Race Ascent debut, his first pro trail outing, and explains why he picked the climb over a longer technical race. They also run through current events: Time's Most Influential list snubbing Noah Lyles, Cape Town joining the World Marathon Majors, the Kenyan takeover of NCAA distance running, and that bicarb ad. Then it's a full listener Q&A -- 23 questions covering rest weeks, double threshold training, shoe contracts, beer mile predictions, podcast white whales, and the worst training advice circulating online right now. goodr: Upgrade your eyewear by heading to goodr.com/OUTANDBACK to claim $10 off your first order. Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at ⁠⁠https://www.meteopace.com/redeem⁠⁠ Code: OUTANDBACK ⁠⁠https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK⁠⁠ Kava Haven: All the Buzz, None of the Booze — get 15% off your first order at ⁠⁠http://kavahaven.com/outandback⁠⁠ Code: OUTANDBACK15 ⁠⁠⁠⁠Join our Strava group⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Buy merch: https://outandback.shop/⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Out And Back YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Strava⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Strava⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Coaching Website⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory's Coaching Website⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠SandyBoy Productions

  • June 14 · 1 hr 20 min

    #41 Brady Holmer - High Carb Evidence, Ketone, and How to Actually Sleep Before a Race

    Brady Holmer is back for his third appearance, which officially makes him the most tenured guest in Out and Back history. He's a week out from Grandma's Marathon, coming off a stress injury and a training block built around high bike volume, durability workouts, and progression long runs in the Texas heat. The conversation covers a lot of ground: what the research actually says about high carb fueling (and where the evidence gets murky), why the crossover point matters more than oxidation rates, gel selection and why he's cycling between multiple products, a new ketone IQ study showing a 15% boost in EPO production post-exercise, and what Nomeo is actually doing in the body. Then Jacob admits he spent race night at the New York Half taking Advil PM every hour hoping to knock out, and Brady walks through what the research says about sleep before races -- including why trying harder to fall asleep is the worst thing you can do. ZBiotics: This episode is brought to you by ZBiotics, a pre-alcohol probiotic drink designed to break down the toxic byproduct that builds up in your gut when you drink -- so you can have a good night and still show up for your long run the next morning. Go to zbiotics.com/outandback, use code OUT AND BACK for 15% off your first order. Backed by a 100% money back guarantee. Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at ⁠⁠https://www.meteopace.com/redeem⁠⁠ Code: OUTANDBACK ⁠⁠https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Join our Strava group⁠⁠⁠⁠ Buy merch: https://outandback.shop/ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Out And Back YouTube⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Strava⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Strava⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Coaching Website⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Rory's Coaching Website⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠SandyBoy Productions Brady's training block and Grandma's Marathon prep Durability workouts: combining bike and run Heat training in Texas What the research actually says about high carb fueling Gel strategy, product lineup, and decoupling fuel from hydration New ketone IQ study: EPO production and recovery Nomeo: how it actually works (and what we don't know) Sleep before a race: why trying harder makes it worse Recovery modalities: red light, ice bath, and compression boots ranked Rapid fire: cross training, electrolytes, and pre-race caffeine

  • S1 · E40
    June 7 · 1 hr 16 min

    #40 David Roche - The Rules of High Carb Training, How to Train the Gut, Fatigue Resistance, & Training the Pros

    David Roche -- ultra marathoner, elite running coach, and what Rory's calling the godfather of the high carb revolution -- joins the Out and Back for episode 40. He started as a running back at Columbia, spent years coaching before ever being competitive himself, and broke the Leadville 100 course record in 2024 (and again in 2025!) largely by stress-testing the same principles he'd been building with his athletes. The conversation covers a lot of ground: how he thinks about carb intake across different race distances, why he separates hydration from fueling, the case for uphill treadmill threshold work, what unites his coaching across trail, road, and ultra, and why he keeps looking to cycling for answers the running world is slow to ask. David on Instagram David's Website Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at ⁠⁠https://www.meteopace.com/redeem⁠⁠ Code: OUTANDBACK ⁠⁠https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK⁠ goodr: Upgrade your eyewear by heading to goodr.com/OUTANDBACK to claim $10 off your first order. Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at ⁠https://www.meteopace.com/redeem⁠ Code: OUTANDBACK ⁠https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK⁠ Kava Haven: All the Buzz, None of the Booze — get 15% off your first order at ⁠http://kavahaven.com/outandback⁠ Code: OUTANDBACK15 ⁠⁠Join our newsletter⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Join our Strava group⁠⁠⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠Jacob’s YouTube⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Rory’s YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Out And Back YouTube⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Strava⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Strava⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Rory’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Jacob’s Instagram⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Jacob’s Coaching Website⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Rory's Coaching Website⁠⁠ ⁠⁠SandyBoy Productions

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