Nurtural Disasters

Know When to Shut Up, Lesley Vogel

While witnessing the fallout of Hayden Panettiere’s death, the hosts realize there are situations where staying silent might be the best decision. Unfortunately, Lesley Vogel, Hayden’s mother, did not get the memo by embarking on a media blitz that included sit-down interviews with Good Morning America and the Daily Mail. Vogel sought to clap back at the haters and at her daughter’s claims framed in the memoir. This could have been the performance of a lifetime. However, the end result did little to improve her public image. Rather it seemed to reinforce perceptions that she is selfishly utilizing her daughter’s death to reframe the narrative while dodging accountability. Now that the fifteen minutes are almost up, Vogel finds herself suffering from severe foot-in-mouth disease with the only prescription being “knowing when to shut the hell up”. Credits/Thanks: Theme Song: "Clouded" by Megan Morrow. IG: @meganmorrowmusic Sound Editing: Ken & Lisa Cover Art: Ken Follow us on: Instagram: @nurturaldisasters Substack: https://nurturaldisasters.substack.com Linktree: https://linktr.ee/nurturaldisasters

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Hayden Panettiere

Beneath her angelic smile was an accomplished lady battling her inner demons. On this episode, the hosts discuss the complicated life of Hayden Panettiere, a beloved actress who recently passed away at the age of 36, through the analysis of her memoir and her recent interview with Jay Shetty. Panettiere dealt with Hollywood betrayals, addiction, severe postpartum depression, and perhaps worse than all of those things combined, her mother. No love is lost when Ken and Lisa tear into the perverse behavior of Lesley Vogel, a mother who would rather treat Hayden as a client rather than as a daughter. Love was conditional and estrangement was inevitable. Was Vogel a narcissist, sociopath, or just a horrible parent? Spoiler alert, it is likely all three! Credits/Thanks: Theme Song: "Clouded" by Megan Morrow. IG: @meganmorrowmusic Sound Editing: Ken & Lisa Cover Art: Ken Follow us on: Instagram: @nurturaldisasters Substack: https://nurturaldisasters.substack.com Linktree: https://linktr.ee/nurturaldisasters

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The “Villain” Responds! The Narcissist Playbook Finale

[Warning! Spoilers ahead] On this episode, the hosts are confronted with an Instagram DM from one of the subjects of The Narcissist Playbook, Sam Veknin, who claims the documentary was an orchestrated hit-piece on him. Ken and Lisa gradually deconstruct his message, which is filled with questionable statements and flawed timelines. Essentially, the numbers just don’t add up. Veknin remarks that the documentary faced numerous rejections from film festivals and streaming platforms, insinuating the defamatory nature of the film. Does this just reinforce the problematic culture in Hollywood, a place run by narcissists who choose reboot and remake rather than innovate. Was the documentary merely a film to destroy the credibility of Veknin? Or is it just narcissistic delusion to think there is a coordinated conspiracy against him? Finally, Lisa tries to survive her terrible allergies, while Ken worries his eyeballs will fall out. Whether it is Glenn Powell becoming an A-list actor or two faceless hosts trying to grow a niche Podcast, nothing is easy. Also, why do Boomers always sign their names on social media messages? Credits/Thanks: Theme Song: "Clouded" by Megan Morrow. IG: @meganmorrowmusic Sound Editing: Ken & Lisa Cover Art: Ken Follow us on: Instagram: @nurturaldisasters Substack: https://nurturaldisasters.substack.com Linktree: https://linktr.ee/nurturaldisasters

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The Narcissist Playbook Part 2: An Evil Within

[Warning: This episode feature heavy spoilers!] The Narcissist Playbook Does evil truly exist? Can you truly be safe when the narcissists are all around us? Welcome to the twenty-first episode of Nurtural Disasters. If this podcast was an American, it would finally be old enough to drink. For the episode this week, the hosts dive much further into the newly-released documentary The Narcissist Playbook through the perspective of accomplished Scottish journalist, Isla Traquair, as she investigates a serious allegation brought forth by a credible victim. She goes on a quest to uncover the perverse indiscretions of a narcissistic therapist, who enjoys destroying the lives of his patients through psychological abuse, while leaving financial ruin in his wake. The big reveal of the culprit is sure to shock audiences. Lisa details her encounters with narcissists throughout her life, and how having the information available in the documentary would have prevented lasting damage. Also, Ken lavishes praise on the John Carpenter classic, They Live and extends an invitation to Mark Vicente and Evan Rachel Wood to come onto the Podcast to discuss the topics further. Be assured of total disregard for feelings, emotions, and spoilers. Suck it up Buttercup. Credits/Thanks: Theme Song: "Clouded" by Megan Morrow. IG: @meganmorrowmusic Sound Editing: Ken & Lisa Cover Art: Ken Follow us on: Instagram: @nurturaldisasters Substack: https://nurturaldisasters.substack.com Linktree: https://linktr.ee/nurturaldisasters

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The Narcissist Playbook

The Narcissist Playbook For the twentieth episode, the hosts analyze and review the new feature documentary, The Narcissist Playbook without any major spoilers. The film by Mark Vicente explores the complexities of narcissism from various viewpoints of perpetrators and victims alike. A self-proclaimed narcissist goes through life coping with the residual effects of his upbringing, juxtaposed with a twin brother who is vastly different despite growing up in the same household. A successful director reveals how his narcissistic parents knowingly exposed him to a family member who was a predator, which caused psychological damage that would stay with him his entire life. A well-known actress recalls her abuse from a narcissistic partner during her young adulthood, who sought to discredit her allegations. What is gaslighting? It is a very difficult term to define, but you know it when you see it. Also, are we living in an era where there is mounting backlash against sociopathic, narcissistic captains of industry? Finally, Amber Heard’s allegations of abuse was a literal and figurative sh*tting of the bed. All this and more in this loaded episode that is sure to shock as well as astonish! Credits/Thanks: Theme Song: "Clouded" by Megan Morrow. IG: @meganmorrowmusic Sound Editing: Ken & Lisa Cover Art: Ken Follow us on: Instagram: @nurturaldisasters Substack: https://nurturaldisasters.substack.com Linktree: https://linktr.ee/nurturaldisasters

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War of the Beckhams, Guest-Starring Gordon Ramsay

[This Special Episode includes content from "Who's the Grown Up Here?" and "Idiot Sandwiches, Alienation, and British Accents, Oh My!" with vulgarity removed] Now that the World Cup is over with a less-than-ideal result from The Three Lions, the hosts of this podcast are looking to anger England once again by discussing more of the fallout of the Beckham family drama with commentary from family friend and celebrity chef, Gordon Ramsay. This brilliant splicing of several previous episodes frames the perfect sequel of a story filled with parental financial abuse, alienation, and narcissistic tactics. A chance meeting with David Beckham at a West Los Angeles Chipotle leads to a deep analysis on the plight of British cuisine and how Irish Chinese food is pretty much leftovers and fries put into a bag. Perhaps Chef Ramsay can chime in. In honor of Chef Ramsay’s proclivity for swearing, this special episode is filled with properly placed, censor bleeps. Enjoy! Credits/Thanks: Theme Song: "Clouded" by Megan Morrow. IG: @meganmorrowmusic Sound Editing: Ken & Lisa Cover Art: Ken Follow us on: Instagram: @nurturaldisasters Substack: https://nurturaldisasters.substack.com Linktree: https://linktr.ee/nurturaldisasters

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Estranged Mom is Now My Neighbor

Still reeling from technical difficulties created by their Podcast provider, Ken and Lisa attempt to record and edit an episode they can be proud of, while not completely losing their collective sanity. Lisa finds out her narcissistic mother has moved into her neighborhood through community posts on social media. Apparently, she has lost her new dog right across town. When and how did she get there? Lisa discusses her nightmares that were manifesting from hidden trauma and knowing her biggest opp is somehow in town cannot be good for her sleep. Do narcissists make terrible pet parents, or do they end up treating them better than their human children? The hosts share stories about their family members who are consuming and perpetuating conspiracy theories online. One of them thinks she’s an alien, and the other thinks Michelle Obama will be president. All this and more on this incredible episode! Credits/Thanks: Theme Song: "Clouded" by Megan Morrow. IG: @meganmorrowmusic Sound Editing: Ken & Lisa Cover Art: Ken Follow us on: Instagram: @nurturaldisasters Substack: https://nurturaldisasters.substack.com Linktree: https://linktr.ee/nurturaldisasters

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Posh Problems Revisited

[This is the re-release of Episode 2: "Posh Problems" with fixed audio and censoring of vulgar language] Five months ago, this podcast embarked on a journey of calling out toxic parenting from the point of view of the victims. The second episode featured an analysis of the Beckham family feud, which saw Brooklyn alleging mistreatment from his famous parents, David and Victoria. The concepts of financial abuse and eating disorders definitely transcend tax brackets and social classes, as the hosts discuss similar stories with their own parents. Also, the audio issues are improved and vulgar language removed. Finally, a podcast you can take home to your parents. Well, only if they are good parents. Happy World Cup everyone! FROM EPISODE 2: "Posh Problems" Have the Beckhams gone too far? In this week's episode, Ken and Lisa explore Brooklyn Beckham's shocking allegations against Ken's childhood crush, Posh Spice. Lisa unpacks Victoria Beckham's the rarely talked about eating disorder (allegedly) and how it impacts the rest of the family. Later, Ken and Lisa discuss their own stories about their parent's financial abuse. Listen as Ken is in absolute awe of Lisa's impeccable British accent (not really)! Last but certainly not least, a special shoutout to the lovely Megan Morrow for our theme song "Clouded"! Credits/Thanks: Theme Song: "Clouded" by Megan Morrow. IG: @meganmorrowmusic Sound Editing: Ken & Lisa Remix: Ken Cover Art: Ken Follow us on: Instagram: @nurturaldisasters Substack: https://nurturaldisasters.substack.com Linktree: https://linktr.ee/nurturaldisasters

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Birthdays With Narcissists

(This is the second part of the episode, "Big, Bad Birthday Bash". Please listen to Part 1!) Attempting to recover from technical difficulty, the hosts decide to reminisce more about their birthdays under the thumbs of their narcissist parents. Lisa declares revenge on her mother by purposely ignoring her on Mother’s Day. Meanwhile, Ken remembers how his 25th birthday celebration was unceremoniously ended by his father and the finger of doom. On one of her birthdays, Lisa tags along with her aunt and cousin, while they go on a shopping spree as she is forced to watch. Ken concludes that his parents are disappointed that he’s a “failure” of a son who is comically terrible at everything in his life. Finally, an awful human-being gets diagnosed with Parkinson’s, and the hosts decide to make a song about Ass Cramps the old-fashioned way. No Artificial Intelligence here! Credits/Thanks: Theme Song: "Clouded" by Megan Morrow. IG: @meganmorrowmusic Sound Editing: Ken & Lisa Cover Art: Ken Follow us on: Instagram: @nurturaldisasters Substack: https://nurturaldisasters.substack.com Linktree: https://linktr.ee/nurturaldisasters

Megan Morrow Marathon

Dealing with some technical difficulties, the hosts decide to merge both parts of the interview with Megan Morrow into one full episode. It is now the length of an arthouse film or a work commute in California. Enjoy this while the hosts send threatening emails to their Podcast service provider. FROM EPISODE 12: "Musically Enmeshed" "[Mom], you're not my friend." Megan Morrow, the singer of the show’s theme, joins the dynamic duo, Ken and Lisa, in the studio to discuss how her life experiences and familial relationships contributed to the creative process of songwriting. It might not have been the most ideal childhood, as she recalls having arguments with her mother only to have a literal door slammed in her face. Forming friendships during her formative years was a difficult proposition as her father did his best to assist young Megan, while enmeshment with her mother continued to be a lifelong concern. No longer attached at the hip, how will Megan navigate her future without the presence of mom? Tune in for loads of tears, both happy and sad! "Clouded" is available for purchase on Bandcamp. https://meganmorrow.bandcamp.com/ FROM EPISODE 14: "Love or Limerence: Songwriter's Guide to the Universe" Welcome back to the second part of our interview with Megan Morrow, where she expands upon her motivations for songwriting and performing for live audiences, using creative process to turn trauma into art. She discusses how her inspirations for one of her future releases dealt with limerence that was birthed from her relationship with her parents. As a special treat, there is a clip of “The Ted Song”, a song dedicated to her late uncle. For levity purposes, there are talks about inappropriate songs, Ken’s problem with his birthdays, and Lisa’s insecurity of her voice. Yes, even this can be silly. Then, the hosts spend the rest of the episode trying to decompress from the heavy topics by talking about recreational drinking and prescription drug use. Apparently, putting yourself out there to create art and content does cause significant disappointment and burnout, but that won’t stop this trio from world domination! *Please contact 988 for if you are in crisis or need of emotional support. Credits/Thanks: Theme Song: "Clouded" by Megan Morrow. IG: @meganmorrowmusic Sound Editing: Ken & Lisa Cover Art: Ken Follow us on: Instagram: @nurturaldisasters Substack: https://nurturaldisasters.substack.com Linktree: https://linktr.ee/nurturaldisasters

Big, Bad Birthday Bash

What happens when a child of a narcissist has a birthday? Can a narcissist cope with not being the center of attention for a day at the expense of their child? The cakes hit the fan when Ken and Lisa talk about their worst birthday experiences growing up with narcissistic parents and dysfunctional family dynamics. Lisa laments her birthday as a young adult that was filled with a lot of vomit, but none actually from her. Ken remembers his parents yelling at him for telling the truth on his fourth birthday. Then his childhood optimism gets tested when his parents fail to bring him a cake to school even once in a 6 year period. Finally, Ken wonders if his father’s wartime PTSD has anything to do with his hoarding behavior. The hosts prepare for a second episode when they realize there might be too much to talk about! Credits/Thanks: Theme Song: "Clouded" by Megan Morrow. IG: @meganmorrowmusic Sound Editing: Ken & Lisa Cover Art: Ken Follow us on: Instagram: @nurturaldisasters Substack: https://nurturaldisasters.substack.com Linktree: https://linktr.ee/nurturaldisasters

Murders of Mean Girl Mackenzie

In 2022, Mackinzie Shirilla drove full speed into a brick wall, killing two passengers including her boyfriend, Dominic Russo. What was originally reported as an accident ended up being much more sinister when Mackenzie’s perverse and callous behavior became the topic of two separate crime documentaries: The Crash and Mean Girl Murders. Did permissive parenting lead to the breeding of a murderer? Classmates painted a picture of a mean girl who was entitled and self-centered. Even after being imprisoned, Mackenzie showed little remorse and prioritized clout-chasing demeanor. Lisa recalls her relationship with an entitled friend who exploited her behavior. Red flags were abundant as the hosts navigate their past relationships with their own personal Regina Georges. Gentle parenting, where parents are permissive and enabling, lays the groundwork for a cavalcade of escalating behaviors. Where will it end up? We are all dying to know! Credits/Thanks: Theme Song: "Clouded" by Megan Morrow. IG: @meganmorrowmusic Sound Editing: Ken & Lisa Cover Art: Ken Follow us on: Instagram: @nurturaldisasters Substack: https://nurturaldisasters.substack.com Linktree: https://linktr.ee/nurturaldisasters

Just Beat It! Michael Jackson Tells Joe to Beat It!

(This is the second part of the episode, "Smooth Criminal: The Dad of Michael Jackson". Please listen to Part 1!) When we look at successful celebrities, who were victims of child abuse, do the ends justify the means? Does survivorship bias alter public perception of the actual rarity of people who transcend being abused by their parents? On this episode, Ken and Lisa continue discussing the blockbuster film, Michael, diving deeper into Michael Jackson’s psychological damage after weathering years of abuse from his vicious father, Joe. Underneath the success, Michael suffered myriads of issues such as body dysmorphia and eating disorders. At the climax of the film, Joe Jackson conjures his final act of villainy to guilt Michael into a final Jackson5 tour. Despite its commercial success, the critics panned the film, referencing its omission of scandals that plagued the King of Pop’s later career. Yet, fans saw it as a love letter to Michael’s genius that blossomed in spite of constant abuse from Joe Jackson. Cry, laugh, and enjoy the episode! Credits/Thanks: Theme Song: "Clouded" by Megan Morrow. IG: @meganmorrowmusic Sound Editing: Ken & Lisa Cover Art: Ken Follow us on: Instagram: @nurturaldisasters Substack: https://nurturaldisasters.substack.com Linktree: https://linktr.ee/nurturaldisasters

Love or Limerence: Songwriter's Guide to the Universe

(This is the second part of the episode, "Musically Enmeshed". Please listen to Part 1!) Welcome back to the second part of our interview with Megan Morrow, where she expands upon her motivations for songwriting and performing for live audiences, using creative process to turn trauma into art. She discusses how her inspirations for one of her future releases dealt with limerence that was birthed from her relationship with her parents. As a special treat, there is a clip of “The Ted Song”, a song dedicated to her late uncle. For levity purposes, there are talks about inappropriate songs, Ken’s problem with his birthdays, and Lisa’s insecurity of her voice. Yes, even this can be silly. Then, the hosts spend the rest of the episode trying to decompress from the heavy topics by talking about recreational drinking and prescription drug use. Apparently, putting yourself out there to create art and content does cause significant disappointment and burnout, but that won’t stop this trio from world domination! *Please contact 988 for if you are in crisis or need of emotional support. Credits/Thanks: Theme Song: "Clouded" by Megan Morrow. IG: @meganmorrowmusic Sound Editing: Ken & Lisa Cover Art: Ken Follow us on: Instagram: @nurturaldisasters Substack: https://nurturaldisasters.substack.com Linktree: https://linktr.ee/nurturaldisasters

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Smooth Criminal: The Dad of Michael Jackson

The Man. The Myth. The King of Pop. On this episode, Ken and Lisa go to the movies to discuss the new hit film, Michael, a biopic that chronicles the ascent of Michael Jackson as a world-class performer and pop cultural icon. All the while, his abusive father, Joe Jackson, controlled and manipulated his children to fulfill his own narcissistic and self-serving vision. How was Michael able to escape the cycle of abuse created from cultural and historical means and propel himself into superstardom? A major accident while filming a cola commercial could have ended in tragedy, but Michael uses this opportunity to forgive his mother, fulfill his obligation to his siblings, and finally severing his tumultuous relationship with his brutal father. He transcends generations of violence and escapes the clutches of his dad, but the emotional and traumatic toll might be even too much for Michael to overcome. Trigger warning: Discussions about child abuse. Credits/Thanks: Theme Song: "Clouded" by Megan Morrow. IG: @meganmorrowmusic Sound Editing: Ken & Lisa Cover Art: Ken Follow us on: Instagram: @nurturaldisasters Substack: https://nurturaldisasters.substack.com Linktree: https://linktr.ee/nurturaldisasters

Musically Enmeshed

"[Mom], you're not my friend." Megan Morrow, the singer of the show’s theme, joins the dynamic duo, Ken and Lisa, in the studio to discuss how her life experiences and familial relationships contributed to the creative process of songwriting. It might not have been the most ideal childhood, as she recalls having arguments with her mother only to have a literal door slammed in her face. Forming friendships during her formative years was a difficult proposition as her father did his best to assist young Megan, while enmeshment with her mother continued to be a lifelong concern. No longer attached at the hip, how will Megan navigate her future without the presence of mom? Tune in for loads of tears, both happy and sad! "Clouded" is available for purchase on Bandcamp. https://meganmorrow.bandcamp.com/ Credits/Thanks: Theme Song: "Clouded" by Megan Morrow. IG: @meganmorrowmusic Sound Editing: Ken & Lisa Cover Art: Ken Follow us on: Instagram: @nurturaldisasters Substack: https://nurturaldisasters.substack.com Linktree: https://linktr.ee/nurturaldisasters

Golden Child in a Red-Pilled World

“The favorite child isn’t always the most responsible one.” Toxic parenting created the ultimate monster: the unempathetic and entitled Golden Child. What happens when parents fail to check bad behaviors of their children? In this episode, the hosts investigate how the perpetuation of favoritism and entitlement contributed to the warped personality of Lisa’s biological brother, a person filled with rage and hate. Ken and Lisa journey into the Manosphere with the help of Louis Theroux’s new documentary, hoping to make sense of it all. When a narcissistic mother plays favorites, a broken wrist during swimming pool accident becomes the ultimate karma for all those involved. Get ready for a well-rounded workout or be doomed to the dreaded chicken legs. Credits/Thanks: Theme Song: "Clouded" by Megan Morrow. IG: @meganmorrowmusic Sound Editing: Ken & Lisa Cover Art: Ken Thank you to all of our supporters! Follow us on: Instagram: @nurturaldisasters Substack: https://nurturaldisasters.substack.com Linktree: https://linktr.ee/nurturaldisasters

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The Gaslighting of Kathy Bates

Kathy Bates might have won the biggest prize in acting but couldn’t win the approval of her mother. For decades, she misremembered not thanking her mom during her Oscars speech. Likewise, Lisa misremembers some of the characters in the hit movie, Titanic. Ken discusses his disdain for bullies and truly believes empathy is the secret in finding satisfaction in everyday life. A lifetime of gaslighting and narcissistic abuse has made Lisa unable to trust her own intuition and often deals with emotional and mental hurdles to function normally in society. Ken holds out hope his “real” parents will come save him one day. Meanwhile, Lisa’s mom is somewhere in the country sporting some botched plastic surgery that makes her as ugly on the outside as she is on the inside. Credits/Thanks: Theme Song: "Clouded" by Megan Morrow. IG: @meganmorrowmusic Sound Editing: Ken & Lisa Cover Art: Ken Thank you to all of our supporters! Follow us on: Instagram: @nurturaldisasters Substack: https://nurturaldisasters.substack.com Linktree: https://linktr.ee/nurturaldisasters

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Trailer

The age old debate: Nature vs. Nurture. But what if you grew up with a disaster of a parent? This is a podcast for those of us with toxic or emotionally immature parents. We might not have a bunch of credentials next to our names, but we do have PhDs from the Hard Knocks University. Basically, we want this to be a validating space for adult children of parents who had no business having children. Credits/Thanks: Theme Song: "Clouded" by Megan Morrow. IG: @meganmorrowmusic Sound Editing: Ken & Lisa Cover Art: Ken Follow us on: Instagram: @nurturaldisasters Substack: https://nurturaldisasters.substack.com Linktree: https://linktr.ee/nurturaldisasters

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This is the Visit That Doesn't End...

"...Yup it goes on and on my friend." Hey, the podcast was famous in Vietnam, for a week. Was Lisa able to keep her sanity when her autistic father visits and stays with her for 10 days straight? She recalls memories of him struggling with social cues and showing empathy to friends, family, as well as strangers. Sure, understanding and patience are crucial in dealing with neurodivergent individuals. But there must be a limit to what is acceptable, right? The hosts discuss how the neurodivergent individuals have to take extra precautions in family planning, such as giving birth to a high-support-needs child. Peer into the twisted mind of Ken as he creates analogies for people who constantly get divorced, like Lisa’s dad. Spoiler alert, it has something to do with fingers and thumbs. Credits/Thanks: Theme Song: "Clouded" by Megan Morrow. IG: @meganmorrowmusic Sound Editing: Ken & Lisa Cover Art: Ken Thank you to all of our supporters! Follow us on: Instagram: @nurturaldisasters Substack: https://nurturaldisasters.substack.com Linktree: https://linktr.ee/nurturaldisasters

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