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More or Less

Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin

Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin have debated the future of Silicon Valley and tech as the closest of friends for the last 15 years. Now six companies, two venture funds and more than a decade at Google, Apple and Facebook later, they are opening up the debate. From The Information, Offline Ventures, and Slow Ventures.

Follow the crew:
http://x.com/davemorin
http://x.com/brit
http://x.com/lessin
http:/x.com/jessicalessin

Follow the pod:
https://moreorlesspod.com/
http://youtube.com/moreorlesspod
https://x.com/moreorlesspod

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  • 24 episodes
  • weekly
  • Avg 52 min
  • English

Episodes 24

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  • April 24 · 52 min

    What Tim Cook’s “Executive Chairman” Move Really Means | Musk vs OpenAI, xAI and Cursor Rumors

    The full quad is back and we're getting right into the tech drama: AI backlash (from Reese Witherspoon to everyday skepticism), breakthrough science like CRISPR entering its “it actually works” era, and major power shifts across tech — from Apple succession chatter to Jensen Huang’s leadership moments and the brewing battle between OpenAI and Elon Musk. They squad digs into SpaceX IPO dynamics, the rise of “traces” data as the next AI battleground, and what happens when AI gives more people the power to build. Chapters: 0:17 — Welcome Back: Full Quad Edition 1:07 — Creatine, AI Stuffies, and the Opening Chaos 4:37 — Breakthrough Prize & CRISPR Finally Working 5:47 — One-of-One Gene Therapy Becomes Real 7:07 — The AI Backlash Is Real8:47 — UBI vs. Meaning: The Real Debate 10:57 — Jensen’s “I Didn’t Wake Up a Loser Today” Moment 12:47 — Apple Succession: Tim Cook → John Ternus 16:17 — Asset Prices vs. Reality21:17 — Elon vs. OpenAI: The Trial 27:07 — SpaceX IPO: Biggest in History? 29:27 — xAI, Cursor, and the $60B Bet 36:07 — Traces Data: The Next AI Battleground 40:07 — Workplace Surveillance & Employee Data 48:27 — Who Gets to Build? (6B Users vs. 50M Builders) 51:07 — AI: Equalizer or Concentrator? We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless YouTube: https://youtu.be/bjePLXg64n0 Connect with us here: 1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin 2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin 3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin 4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

  • April 17 · 44 min

    Allbirds Pivoted to AI Data Centers | SpaceX $1.5T IPO, Anthropic $800B, $175M Seed Rounds

    SpaceX might be the biggest IPO ever but there’s a math problem no one’s pricing in. Once you factor in capital gains, you need to believe it’ll underperform the market by ~50% just to justify selling. That creates an invisible floor under mega-cap stocks and a market increasingly detached from reality. Meanwhile: Allbirds goes from $4B to $40M and pivots to “NewBird AI.” Seed valuations hit $175M — 3x YoY, above 2021 peak. And AI labs are allegedly planting stories on each other. This week on More or Less: SpaceX’s $19B revenue / $5B losses, the AI bubble, Anthropic $800B rumors, and why fund math is breaking. Chapters: 0:00 — Waymo vs. Uber: the autonomous tipping point 8:29 — Allbirds: $4B → $40M → “NewBird AI” 12:56 — Boom Supersonic and the data center pivot 15:17 — SpaceX IPO: bulls vs. bears 16:14 — The tax problem no one is pricing in 20:16 — Can mega-cap still 50x? 26:47 — SpaceX breakdown: Starlink vs. launch 28:20 — Anthropic $800B rumors 30:08 — OpenAI vs. Anthropic: leaks and competition 31:08 — The model switching problem (no real moat) 33:36 — AI behavior shift: “ask the agent” 38:17 — AI labs running oppo research 40:05 — Seed valuations surpass 2021 peak 42:00 — Fund math is broken We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless YouTube: https://youtu.be/FQ5TEs_3Dq8 Connect with us here: 1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin 2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin 3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin 4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

  • April 10 · 47 min

    Vercel CEO: 70% of Our Traffic Is Now AI Agents "Nobody Was Prepared" | Anthropic, OpenClaw, OpenAI

    Vercel CEO Guillermo Rauch breaks down the explosive rise of AI agents and what it means for the future of software infrastructure. He joins the Morins to unpack why Anthropic cut off OpenClaw users, why the SaaS subscription model is breaking down, how agents are reshaping cloud infrastructure, and why a new wave of “supergeniuses” (from neurosurgeons to 17-year-olds) are building things no one thought possible. Plus: dreams.md, the future of personal agents, and why agents are becoming the new computer. Chapters: 00:42 Intro: Guillermo Rauch, CEO and Founder of Vercel 01:48 Vercel Explodes 5X Growth and AI Traffic Surge 03:51 Why Anthropic Shut Down OpenClaw Users 04:47 Coding Agents Are the Path to AGI 07:57 70 Percent of Vercel Traffic Is Now AI 09:50 SaaS Is Dead Pay Per Token Takes Over 13:16 Anthropic vs OpenClaw Closed vs Open Agents 14:47 The Hidden Risk of AI Data and Training 16:38 Why Everyone Wants Their Own AI 18:08 The Shift to Agent Native Infrastructure 19:45 Vibe Coded Apps Are Going Viral 21:42 The AI Wars Anthropic OpenAI Elon 23:15 Dreams md Self Improving AI Agents 25:44 Memory Theory of Mind and Agent Intelligence 28:05 Your AI Should Travel With You 30:00 Enterprise AI and Domain Expert Agents 31:15 How Vercel Became an AI Native Company 33:06 Hiring in the Age of AI Agents 36:03 The Rise of Supergeniuses 38:10 Inside Slows Creator AI Hackathon 40:06 AI Agents Are the New Customers 41:18 Moving Up the Stack Again 42:05 What Happens in the Next 12 Months 43:48 AI Will Break Cloud and Security We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless YouTube: https://youtu.be/f43JCxhKLEg Connect with us here: 1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin 2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin 3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin 4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

  • April 3 · 47 min

    AI Agents Destroying Internet Security (Anthropic's Leak, ClawCon Tokyo, OpenAI's $852B Valuation)

    Sam Lessin accidentally emailed 40 of Silicon Valley's most important people using an AI bot — and that one mishap reveals everything broken about the AI security model right now. In this episode, Sam and Dave Morin (calling in from ClawCon Tokyo) argue that AI agents are quietly dismantling every security assumption the internet was built on: from open-source package trust chains to content moderation walls to the entire premise of software moats. Meanwhile, Jessica Lessin shares her own Claude Code disaster that proves even careful people are one 'approve' click away from chaos. The team also tears apart OpenAI's $852 billion valuation, debate whether 10 million software developers are about to become irrelevant, and explain why a professional skier in Alaska just built the app she'd been pitching for two years — in a single afternoon. We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless YouTube: https://youtu.be/Gv-VUTGVNT8 Connect with us here: 1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin 2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin 3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin 4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

Showing 21–24 of 24 episodes