Mind Dive

The Menninger Clinic

The Menninger Clinic’s Mind Dive podcast is a twice-monthly exploration of mental health topics from the professional’s perspective, including the dilemmas clinicians face in their practice. Hosts Dr. Bob Boland and Dr. Kerry Horrell dive into the complexities of mental health care including the latest research and other topical developments through lively discourse with distinguished colleagues from near and far.

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Today · 34 min
Episode 83: Thinking Differently about Drinking
Alcohol is everywhere until you start paying attention, and then you realize how many assumptions you’ve been handed: “If you don’t have a problem, don’t worry about it,” “If you do have a problem, you must quit forever,” or the classic “a little red wine is good for your heart.” We sit down with Dr. William R. Miller, pioneer of motivational interviewing and co-author, with Dr. Ricardo F. Muñoz, of the new book Rethinking Drinking. This conversation is about getting a calmer, more accurate way to think about alcohol use, health risk, and personal choice. We talk about what’s changed in the last 50 years, including the steady decline in alcohol consumption and the growing social normalcy of not consuming alcohol. From there, we dig into why the old post-Prohibition binary model still shows up in clinical work and everyday conversations, and why it doesn’t match what the science says. Dr. Miller explains how alcohol-related harm tracks closely with dose, why “moderate drinkers look healthiest” can be a misleading comparison, and how the alcohol industry helped popularize the idea that drinking equals happiness, attractiveness, and success. There are plenty of practical takeaways including the “drinker’s checkup” mindset, the difference between risky drinking and harmful drinking, and why zero alcohol is the only safe guideline for driving and other high-stakes tasks. We also explore the emotional side of drinking with the “reasons for drinking” ladder, plus the hidden danger of alcohol tolerance, which can silence your internal warning signals as impairment and damage continue. Finally, we share concrete behavior change tools from the book: tracking drinks before you pour them, setting clear limits, slowing down early, identifying triggers, and building real alternatives for stress, sleep, and social comfort. If you care about harm reduction, mindful drinking, addiction psychology, or simply helping yourself and others have a more intentional relationship with alcohol, you’ll want to listen to this conversation. Share it with someone who’d appreciate a nonjudgmental approach and be sure to share a review if it was helpful. Follow The Menninger Clinic on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn to stay up to date on new Mind Dive episodes. To submit a topic for discussion, email podcast@menninger.edu. If you are a new or regular listener, please leave us a review on your favorite listening platform! Visit The Menninger Clinic website to learn more about The Menninger Clinic’s research and leadership role in mental health.
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September 14 · 39 min
Episode 82: Psychotherapy For Psychosis with Dr. Michael Garrett
Psychosis is often treated like a medical emergency that must be “stabilized” before anyone can think with the person, but that stance can quietly teach patients that their inner life is not worth understanding. We talk with psychiatrist and author Dr. Michael Garrett, a pioneer in psychotherapy for psychosis, about how to listen for meaning inside hallucinations, delusions, and disorganized speech without rushing to flatten everything into a checklist of symptoms. Our north star is the idea that psychotic experience sits on a continuum with ordinary mental life, and that patients are often trying to communicate grief, fear, and conflict in the only way that feels available. We dig into how Dr. Garrett integrates CBT for psychosis with psychodynamic thinking. Instead of starting with a bold interpretation, he begins with the patient’s conscious experience and the “evidentiary chain” that led them to a belief: what they perceived, how they made sense of it, and what conclusions felt unavoidable. Along the way, we explore why metaphor can break during active psychosis, turning “this feels like danger” into “this is danger,” and what that implies for clinical stance, empathy, and therapeutic pacing. We also wrestle with big system questions that shape real care: why training programs rarely teach psychotherapy for schizophrenia, what it takes to build services in public psychiatry, and how clinicians can think about triage without giving up on people. Dr. Garrett makes a compelling trauma-informed case for viewing many psychotic presentations as a complex PTSD phenotype shaped by biology, while still recognizing the lifesaving role of antipsychotic medication when symptoms demand it. More ion this topic can be found in his book: Psychotherapy for Psychosis, Integrating Cognitive Behavioral and Psychodynamic Treatment. If you care about schizophrenia treatment, trauma and psychosis, CBTp, psychodynamic therapy, or building humane mental health systems, this conversation is for you. Follow The Menninger Clinic on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn to stay up to date on new Mind Dive episodes. To submit a topic for discussion, email podcast@menninger.edu. If you are a new or regular listener, please leave us a review on your favorite listening platform! Visit The Menninger Clinic website to learn more about The Menninger Clinic’s research and leadership role in mental health.
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August 17 · 35 min
Episode 81: Supporting A Partner With Depression - Dr. David Dozois
Depression can turn a loving relationship into a confusing maze: one person is suffering, the other is scrambling to help, and both end up feeling alone. We sit down with Dr. David Dozois, professor of psychology and psychiatry at Western University and author of What to Do When Your Partner Is Depressed, to get practical, research-informed guidance for couples living with depression. We dig into what partners most often get wrong, not because they do not care, but because they reach for the fix-it reflex. Dr. Dozois explains why “connect first” matters, how validation changes the emotional tone, and how advice delivered too soon can feel invalidating. We also talk about depression symptoms like withdrawal, fatigue, and anhedonia, and how understanding the symptom picture can reduce personalization and reduce conflict. From there we zoom out to relationships and mental health through a CBT lens, including Dr. Dozois’s dyadic partner schema model and how our beliefs about a partner shape interpretations, reactions, and relationship distress. We also name the hardest part out loud: partners have needs too, and there is no simple formula for knowing when you have reached your limit. The conversation closes with actionable tools, including checking thoughts against facts, problem solving, behavioral activation, and acceptance strategies for what cannot be changed. If you want evidence-based tips for supporting a depressed partner while protecting your own wellbeing, listen now, then subscribe, share with someone who needs it, and leave a review so more couples can find the show. Follow The Menninger Clinic on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn to stay up to date on new Mind Dive episodes. To submit a topic for discussion, email podcast@menninger.edu. If you are a new or regular listener, please leave us a review on your favorite listening platform! Visit The Menninger Clinic website to learn more about The Menninger Clinic’s research and leadership role in mental health.
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July 20 · 28 min
Episode 80: Parenting Children with Eating Disorders
When a child develops an eating disorder, food becomes the battlefield, but the deeper struggle is often about fear, control, shame, and the need to feel understood. We sit down with Dr. Tom Wooldridge, board-certified psychologist, psychoanalyst, and eating disorder specialist, to talk about what actually helps families when anorexia or other eating disorders turn meals into daily conflict. His message is both relieving and challenging: eating disorders are not caused by one thing, parents are not to blame, and behavioral compliance is not the same as emotional recovery. We dig into the heart of his book, End the Food Fight: Replacing Control with Connection to Help Your Child Heal from an Eating Disorder, and why it’s designed as a steady companion for parents working alongside family-based treatment, refeeding plans, and clinical care. Dr. Wooldridge breaks down three practical pillars that support eating disorder recovery at home: emotional attunement, self-regulation, and reflection. We talk about how a stance of curiosity can soften power struggles, reduce shame, and help a child feel held in mind while they face the terrifying loss of “control” that refeeding can bring. We also translate mentalization into real-life parenting language, including what happens when families slip into teleological thinking (“if they just eat, everything is fine”) or go emotionally offline while trying to follow the plan. Finally, we explore the “unspoken conversation” in families, generational body messages, puberty and weight anxiety, plus how to think about social media and peer influence without pretending there’s one perfect rule for every kid. If this helped you, subscribe to Mind Dive, share the episode with a parent or clinician who needs steadiness today, and leave a review so more families can find these tools. Follow The Menninger Clinic on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn to stay up to date on new Mind Dive episodes. To submit a topic for discussion, email podcast@menninger.edu. If you are a new or regular listener, please leave us a review on your favorite listening platform! Visit The Menninger Clinic website to learn more about The Menninger Clinic’s research and leadership role in mental health.
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June 15 · 27 min
Episode 79: Championing Depth Therapy vs Quick Fixes
If you have ever wondered why therapy that feels life-changing can be so hard to find and so hard to afford, this conversation puts real numbers and real power dynamics on the table. We sit down with Dr. Linda Michaels, licensed psychologist, co-founder of the Psychotherapy Action Network, and author of *Advancing Psychotherapy for the Next Generation: Humanizing Mental Health Policy and Practice*, to talk about what people actually want from psychotherapy and why the mental health system so often delivers something else. We unpack research from large national samples showing that most people want therapy to be a safe, nonjudgmental relationship that helps them change repeating patterns and get to the root of what drives their distress. Listeners will hear why the public intuitively understands that meaningful change takes time, and how depth therapy and relational therapy align with those goals even when insurance reimbursement, manualized training, and symptom-first protocols push the field in a different direction. Then we zoom out to the forces shaping mental health policy and access: managed care incentives, platform therapy advertising, privacy and confidentiality concerns, and the rapid rise of big tech, venture capital, and private equity in behavioral health. Dr. Michaels also shares how the Psychotherapy Action Network has engaged federal agencies on AI chatbots, why a “therapy as a product” mindset can fail clients, and what happened when Talkspace sued the organization after public criticism. We close with practical solutions, including the launch of Therapy That Sticks and why mentorship and strong training standards matter if we want psychotherapy that leads to sustainable change. Subscribe, share this with a colleague or friend who cares about the future of mental health care, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway. Follow The Menninger Clinic on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn to stay up to date on new Mind Dive episodes. To submit a topic for discussion, email podcast@menninger.edu. If you are a new or regular listener, please leave us a review on your favorite listening platform! Visit The Menninger Clinic website to learn more about The Menninger Clinic’s research and leadership role in mental health.
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S3 · E78
May 18 · 41 min
Episode 78: Dispelling Myths about Autism and ADHD
TikTok can make autism and ADHD feel instantly recognizable, but recognition is not diagnosis. We sit down with Dr Alton Bozeman, Director of the Menninger Assessment Center, to separate viral “signs” from the clinical reality of neurodevelopmental disorders and to explain what qualified psychological assessment actually looks for: persistent patterns, true deficits, and real life impairment. We dig into the biggest misconceptions around autism spectrum disorder, including the idea of a “level zero” autism that needs no support, the confusion between quirky personality and core social communication differences, and the myth that autism automatically comes with either low intelligence or savant-level gifts. We talk about what clinicians and families mean by disruption, how severe sensory issues or rigidity can become, and why accurate language matters when some people need intensive support across school, home, and adulthood. Then we pivot to ADHD, where the most common misunderstanding is treating it like a performance upgrade for already high achievers. We unpack how anxiety and perfectionism can mimic ADHD, why accommodations like extra time can sometimes worsen rumination, and how rising demand affects the system, from stricter disability documentation to stimulant medication shortages. If you have symptoms that are disrupting your life, we also share the most practical next step: get a comprehensive evaluation so you can target the real driver, whether that is ADHD, anxiety, trauma, insomnia, or something else. If you found this episode interesting, subscribe, share it with a colleague, and leave a review so more people can be informed. Follow The Menninger Clinic on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn to stay up to date on new Mind Dive episodes. To submit a topic for discussion, email podcast@menninger.edu. If you are a new or regular listener, please leave us a review on your favorite listening platform! Visit The Menninger Clinic website to learn more about The Menninger Clinic’s research and leadership role in mental health.
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April 20 · 41 min
Episode 77: The Psychiatrist Who Explored Nazi Minds
This episode dives into history with best-selling author Jack El-Hai to follow psychiatrist Douglas Kelley from wartime trauma work to the Nuremberg prison cells where he tested infamous Nazi defendants and walked away with a conclusion that still chills. Our hosts wrestle with what it means to stop believing in “monsters,” how propaganda exploits ordinary minds, and what Kelley thought democracies must do to resist authoritarianism. The most unsettling Nuremberg detail that is shared isn’t a single document or confession. It’s the possibility that the architects of mass violence can look psychologically ordinary when you put them under the lens of clinical testing. That’s where our conversation with El-Hai begins, as we dig into his book The Nazi and the Psychiatrist. Douglas Kelley arrives after World War II as a U.S. Army psychiatrist tasked with a narrow forensic job: determine whether the top Nazi defendants are mentally fit to stand trial. But he can’t stop there. Using interviews and tools like the Rorschach, he quietly chases a bigger question in forensic psychiatry and psychology: is there a shared mental illness that explains crimes on this scale? His conclusion flips the comforting story many of us want to tell, and forces a harder look at motivation, opportunism, loyalty, and the ways propaganda and authoritarian movements press upon normal human weaknesses. We also discuss Kelley’s volatile rapport with Hermann Göring, a master manipulator who draws Kelley into long conversations and even convinces him to pass letters to his family. From there, the conversation widens into the present: mental health stigma, why “evil” can be a trap word, and Kelley’s post-Nuremberg warnings about civic vulnerability, critical thinking education, and voting access. We end with the troubling echo between Göring’s cyanide suicide and Kelley’s own death, and what that says about control, identity, and despair. Subscribe for more psychology-forward conversations, share this with a friend who loves true history and mental health, and leave a review if you want more episodes that focus on history, like this one. Please do share what you took away from listening to this edition of MindDive. Follow The Menninger Clinic on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn to stay up to date on new Mind Dive episodes. To submit a topic for discussion, email podcast@menninger.edu. If you are a new or regular listener, please leave us a review on your favorite listening platform! Visit The Menninger Clinic website to learn more about The Menninger Clinic’s research and leadership role in mental health.
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March 16 · 28 min
Episode 76: Can AI Play A Role in Care?
Ready for a clear-eyed look at AI in mental health care? We kick off Season Five of Mind Dive by interviewing ChatGPT, pressing our AI guest on safety, privacy, and practical use, and then stress-testing its limits with live scenarios. No hype, no doom. Just a grounded conversation about what AI can do for clinicians and patients—and where it can’t go. We map out the real utility: faster documentation, smarter screening prompts, triage support, and simple coping exercises that help patients self-regulate between sessions. Then we tackle the hard edges. We discuss anthropomorphism, why models “hallucinate” convincing but false citations, and how to verify sources in PubMed or other trusted databases. We get specific about HIPAA, GDPR, data security, and consent, especially for ambient AI that drafts notes during sessions. You’ll hear a brief anxiety grounding exercise, plus tone simulations of anxious, depressed, and manic speech for training, showing how AI can support education without pretending to feel. Throughout, we keep the center of gravity where it belongs: human judgment, empathy, and ethical boundaries. We ask pointed questions about liability, medication advice, and patients who consider replacing therapy with a chatbot. The takeaway is pragmatic: start small, choose one low-risk workflow, de-identify sensitive data, and treat AI outputs as drafts to refine with your clinical expertise. The future looks like partnership—tools that handle the boring parts so we can focus on the more interesting and important human parts. Thanks to our listeners for four great years! If this episode sparks ideas or provides an “Aha moment,” please share it with a colleague, subscribe to Mind Dive Season Five, and leave a review with one question you’d like us to tackle next. Follow The Menninger Clinic on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn to stay up to date on new Mind Dive episodes. To submit a topic for discussion, email podcast@menninger.edu. If you are a new or regular listener, please leave us a review on your favorite listening platform! Visit The Menninger Clinic website to learn more about The Menninger Clinic’s research and leadership role in mental health.
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February 16 · 35 min
Episode 75 (Rewind): Trust and Building Real Bonds in Therapy with Dr. Jon Allen
Hosts' note: We're re-airing this 2022 episode with Dr. Jon Allen, one of our earliest, because it is such a good companion to last month's episode on therapeutic relationships. For those who want a deeper dive into the dynamic of building trust with patients and its role in the therapeutic process, this is worth a listen, whether it's your first hearing or a return to the discussion. Thank you! The analysis of the patient is an expected part of therapy, but clinicians may forget that this dynamic creates an equal analysis of the doctor by the patient. Rather than a process of therapy, the two-way street of trust is an ideal outcome of a relationship between patient and clinician that must be nourished. Some argue that this is, by far, the most important fundamental element in a successful therapeutic approach. On this episode of Mind Dive podcast, Dr. Jon Allen brings attention to the functions of trust in a therapeutic relationship, noting something often neglected in psychotherapy literature. Dr. Allen, author of Trusting in Psychotherapy, previously served for 40 years as a senior staff psychologist at The Menninger Clinic, and currently holds a position as a clinical professor in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at Baylor College of Medicine. Dive into this episode alongside hosts Dr. Kerry Horrell and Dr. Bob Boland as they explore how clinicians can better nurture therapeutic relationships built on trust to support the overall quality of mental health care for their patients. “Think about the quality of the relationship as the fundamental, impactful aspect of psychotherapy,” said Dr. Allen, “Trust is not a common factor that’s been studied, but I think of trust as the superordinate common factor.” Follow The Menninger Clinic on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn to stay up to date on new Mind Dive episodes. To submit a topic for discussion, email podcast@menninger.edu. If you are a new or regular listener, please leave us a review on your favorite listening platform! Visit The Menninger Clinic website to learn more about The Menninger Clinic’s research and leadership role in mental health.
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January 19 · 43 min
Episode 74: The Importance of Therapeutic Relationships
What if the most powerful intervention isn’t a technique but a relationship you can feel? We sit down with distinguished psychotherapist Dr. Jon Allen to explore why caring connections—not just procedures—drive real change, especially for patients shaped by trauma. Rather than chasing the next branded model, Dr. Allen makes a clear, evidence-informed case that trust, care, and therapist development explain why therapy works. When the alliance becomes the work, resistance stops being a barrier and starts becoming the trailhead. We dig into the “uncommon common factors”: the therapist’s personal and professional growth; trustworthiness grounded in care and competence; and the hard truth that people hurt in relationships are sensibly wary. Dr. Allen draws on philosophy and feminist ethics of care to illuminate what training often skips—how to think about care when gratitude doesn’t arrive, and how to act with integrity even when we don’t feel warm. We also talk about mentalizing through the Slade Test: does a concept help you know people better? If not, toss the jargon. Connection often happens beneath words. Borrowing from attachment science and jazz, Dr. Allen describes sessions as structured improvisation—rhythm, timing, and a shared “third” that can’t be scripted. That ineffable, spiritual sense of being met is where safety grows and where change takes root. The takeaway is not a checklist. It is a craft you refine across a lifetime: keep your methods, deepen your presence, and let the relationship teach you how to help. If this resonates with you as a listener/reader, follow the show, share it with a colleague who needs the reminder, and leave a review so more clinicians can find these conversations. Your reflections shape what Mind Dive explores next. Book discussed in this podcast: “Bringing Psychotherapy to Life Through Caring Connections,” by Jon G. Allen, PhD “Father Time: A Natural History of Men and Babies” by Sarah Blaffer Hrdy Follow The Menninger Clinic on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn to stay up to date on new Mind Dive episodes. To submit a topic for discussion, email podcast@menninger.edu. If you are a new or regular listener, please leave us a review on your favorite listening platform! Visit The Menninger Clinic website to learn more about The Menninger Clinic’s research and leadership role in mental health.
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Dec 15, 2025 · 32 min
Episode 73: Living Well With OCD
Ever had a thought so disturbing you questioned who you are? We sat down with Dr. John Abramowitz— clinical psychologist and internationally recognized expert on OCD and anxiety—to unpack intrusive thoughts, the mechanics of obsessions and compulsions, and the practical tools that let people live well with uncertainty. This isn’t a simple chat about perfectionism; it’s an exploration of the forms OCD can take and why reassurance and avoidance backfire, We also discuss how evidence-based care can turn fear into a teacher rather than a jailer. Dr. Abramowitz walks us through exposure and response prevention in plain language: building a thoughtful hierarchy, approaching feared cues, and resisting rituals so the brain relearns safety. He explains why trust and collaboration are non-negotiable, how to pace exposures, and how acceptance- and values-based strategies supercharge progress. We also dig into self-compassion as a way to reduce shame, soften moral conflict, and create the emotional space to do hard work without collapsing into self-criticism. OCD doesn’t just live inside one person. Families and partners often enable cycles by offering reassurance or protecting loved ones from triggers. This discussion maps out concrete ways to shift from accommodation to support—less shielding, more strengthening—so relationships stop revolving around the disorder. Beyond symptom reduction, we explore identity and meaning: OCD is part of your story, not your name tag. Re-engaging with values, work, and connection makes gains durable and life expansive, even when stress stirs old triggers. For clinicians, you’ll hear guidance on effective education, motivation, and maintenance plans that prevent drift. If you’re navigating OCD personally or in your family, you’ll find language, tools, and hope grounded in science and compassion. Subscribe, share with someone who needs clarity about OCD, and leave a review with the biggest myth you want the field to retire on this topic. Additional insights available in this latest book by Dr. Abramowitz: “Living Well with OCD: Practical Strategies for Improving Your Daily Life.” Follow The Menninger Clinic on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn to stay up to date on new Mind Dive episodes. To submit a topic for discussion, email podcast@menninger.edu. If you are a new or regular listener, please leave us a review on your favorite listening platform! Visit The Menninger Clinic website to learn more about The Menninger Clinic’s research and leadership role in mental health.
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S3 · E72
Nov 17, 2025 · 39 min
Episode 72: Understanding Lone Actor Violence
The hardest part of confronting targeted violence is seeing the storm form before it breaks. We sit down with Dr. Pedro Julnes, MD, a psychiatrist who is an expert in lone actor violence. During this discussion with our hosts, he traces how personal grievance hardens into ideology, why extreme overvalued beliefs aren’t delusions, and what real world cues tell us when risk is rising. Along the way, we compare lone actor violence with psychotic aggression, crimes of passion, and predatory harm, then focus on the behavioral signatures that cut across politics and subcultures. Dr. Julnes presents the indicators of this type of violent behavior: distal warning signs versus proximal indicators. Distal signs include grievance that becomes central to identity, ideological framing, failure of sexual pair bonding, and a shift toward simplistic, absolute thinking. Proximal signs look like a suicide risk pathway: research, planning, preparation, capability testing, leakage, and rapid functional decline. Terrorist Radicalization Assessment Protocol (TRAP-18) provides a useful structure here, but the clinical mindset is familiar—act on behavior, anchor to specifics, and escalate safety when planning appears. This conversation is practical, not abstract. We cover alliance-building with patients brought in under duress. We outline concrete steps clinicians can take. We also address the systems gap: many cases live in the gray zone of “no crime, no psychosis.” Hospitals, schools, and courts need coordinated threat assessment processes; the VA’s model shows it can be done. If you want a grounded guide to spotting fixation, understanding internet-fueled contagion, and acting ethically when ideology meets behavior, this conversation delivers clarity without sensationalism. Subscribe for more thoughtful dives, share with a colleague who handles risk assessments, and leave a review to tell us what more you’d like to know on this topic and others. Resources named in this episode: Book: Extreme Overvalued Beliefs: Clinical and Forensic Psychiatric Dimensions (By Tahir Rahman, MD, with Jeffrey Abugel) Threat assessment tool: Terrorist Radicalization Assessment Protocol-18 (TRAP-18) - TRAP 18 Manual - Global Institute of Forensic Research (J. Reid Meloy, PhD, ABPP) Further reading: see the source list at end of the episode transcript. Follow The Menninger Clinic on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn to stay up to date on new Mind Dive episodes. To submit a topic for discussion, email podcast@menninger.edu. If you are a new or regular listener, please leave us a review on your favorite listening platform! Visit The Menninger Clinic website to learn more about The Menninger Clinic’s research and leadership role in mental health.
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Oct 20, 2025 · 40 min
Episode 71: Understanding Over-Controlled and Under-Controlled Personalities
Ever worked hard, did everything “right,” and still felt unseen? Our conversation with Dr. Ellen Astrachan-Fletcher gets to the heart of why: when control becomes a shield, it also becomes a wall. We dig into Radically Open Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (RODBT) and the hidden costs of over-control—perfectionism, emotional inhibition, and the quiet loneliness of feeling unknown—even in a crowded room We start with the bell curve of emotional control, where under-control and over-control live at opposite tails. Dr. Astrachan-Fletcher breaks down bio-temperament -- the built-in settings that shape threat and reward sensitivity, detail versus global focus, novelty seeking, and inhibitory control. She shows how these traits steer coping long before we learn clinical “skills.” If traditional DBT excels as treatment for under-control, RO DBT unlocks the stuck places for over-control by targeting openness, genuine vulnerability, and the social signals that invite connection. You’ll hear how small cues—polished fixes, self-sufficiency, quiet corrections—can accidentally signal superiority or distrust, leaving the most conscientious person out of the celebration. We also unpack why so many clients cycle through higher levels of care for eating disorders and depression: they stabilize in structured settings, then return to lonely lives without the tools to build a “true connection.” RO DBT reframes feedback as a gift, uses playful teasing to lower perfectionistic armor, and treats social signaling as a change target—not a footnote. Along the way, we discuss ADHD, trauma’s masking effects, self-injury patterns in OC vs. UC, and how culture rewards control while overlooking its costs If you’ve ever been “the nicest person no one really knows,” this one’s for you. Learn how to move flexibly within your temperament, send warmer social signals, and practice safe vulnerability that actually deepens bonds. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs it, and leave a review with your biggest “I feel seen” moment—these are great observations to share as they inform others and ourselves. Follow The Menninger Clinic on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn to stay up to date on new Mind Dive episodes. To submit a topic for discussion, email podcast@menninger.edu. If you are a new or regular listener, please leave us a review on your favorite listening platform! Visit The Menninger Clinic website to learn more about The Menninger Clinic’s research and leadership role in mental health.
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Sep 22, 2025 · 32 min
Episode 70: Rethinking Suicidality Treatment
Suicide continues to be one of the most important mental health crises of our time, but with compassionate thoughtful treatment, people struggling with suicidal thoughts can find support and healing. In this episode, Menninger Clinic clinicians, Dr. Patricia Daza and Dr. Adrian Lira, explore Collaborative Assessment and Management of Suicidality (CAMS), an evidence-based approach to assessing and addressing suicidal ideation. With decades of experience in both inpatient and outpatient settings, these experts discuss how CAMS shifts the conversation surrounding suicide by focusing on its four pillars: empathy, honesty, collaboration and suicide-focus. CAMS is not an intervention for depression or any other disorder. It is specifically designed for suicide. Instead of just assessing risk or treating suicidal thoughts as a symptom of depression or another condition, this model puts patients in the driver's seat, helping them identify their own reasons for feeling suicidal and uses those insights to create personalized treatment plans. “And really, the data has shown pretty strongly that even one session of CAMS, like in an emergency department with an assessment and discharge plan, can have significant effects,” Dr. Daza explains. The conversation looks at the complex nature of suicidal thoughts, showing that people can feel both a wish to die and a desire to live at the same time. Our experts share how recognizing these mixed feelings can spark hope and support recovery, while also addressing common myths about suicide, from the misconception that talking about it increases risk to the belief that it is selfish. As Dr. Lira notes, “The risk might already be there. You're just kind of identifying it earlier on, discussing it and hopefully using some interventions to decrease some of that risk.” For those supporting someone who is struggling, or anyone wanting to understand how suicide treatment can be handled with care, this episode highlights how thoughtful, judgment-free approaches can lead to improvements in outcomes. Join us as we unpack strategies and tools to navigate moments of crisis. Follow The Menninger Clinic on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn to stay up to date on new Mind Dive episodes. To submit a topic for discussion, email podcast@menninger.edu. If you are a new or regular listener, please leave us a review on your favorite listening platform! Visit The Menninger Clinic website to learn more about The Menninger Clinic’s research and leadership role in mental health.
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Aug 18, 2025 · 28 min
Episode 69: Beyond Trauma: Reclaiming Your Life with ACT
Trauma changes us, but it doesn't have to define us. In this insightful conversation with internationally recognized clinical psychologists Dr. Robin Walser and Dr. Darrah Westrup, we explore the transformative potential of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) for trauma recovery. Drawing from their combined six decades of specialized experience and their new book, "You Are Not Your Trauma: An ACT Guide for Healing from Within," these pioneering clinicians challenge conventional wisdom about trauma treatment. Rather than framing recovery as a battle to eliminate painful memories and sensations, they reveal how psychological flexibility creates space for both holding pain and building a meaningful life. The heart of their approach lies in what they call a "hold and move process" – helping trauma survivors open up to their internal experiences while simultaneously connecting with deeply held values. For those who feel fundamentally damaged by trauma, this pathway offers profound liberation. As Dr. Westrup explains, "That sense of self is really a sense of being broken... prior to ACT I'd never come across a way to really help someone shift that." Through their phase model of trauma treatment, they thoughtfully scaffold recovery from safety and stabilization through trauma exposure work and ultimately to values-based living. This structure acknowledges that healing isn't linear while providing clear direction for both clinicians and survivors. What makes their work truly revolutionary is the weaving of values throughout the entire process. "You've been waiting too long already," Dr. Walser emphasizes. "Let's not another minute go by where we're not thinking about how we're going to get you connected to [what matters]." This values-based orientation provides crucial anchoring during the inevitably difficult moments of trauma work. Whether you're a trauma therapist seeking new approaches or someone personally navigating the aftermath of trauma, this conversation offers genuine hope and practical wisdom for expanding life beyond the constricting effects of trauma. Join us as we discover how to reclaim wholeness after suffering. Follow The Menninger Clinic on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn to stay up to date on new Mind Dive episodes. To submit a topic for discussion, email podcast@menninger.edu. If you are a new or regular listener, please leave us a review on your favorite listening platform! Visit The Menninger Clinic website to learn more about The Menninger Clinic’s research and leadership role in mental health.
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Jul 21, 2025 · 40 min
Episode 68: Navigating Perinatal Mental Health with Emily Pyle & Mychal Riley
What happens when the journey into parenthood collides with mental health challenges? This episode pulls back the curtain on a critical yet often overlooked aspect of becoming a parent - perinatal mental health - and discusses The Menninger Clinic’s innovative "hospital without walls" approach to supporting families. Clinical social workers Emily Pyle, LPC-S, and Michael Riley, LCSW-S, from Menninger 360 join us to explore their wraparound care model that meets parents exactly where they are - in their homes and communities. They reveal a stark reality --- that perinatal mood and anxiety disorders are the leading medical complication in childbearing and the leading cause of maternal death in the United States, affecting one in three pregnancy-related deaths. The conversation explores how mental health challenges manifest differently between birthing parents and their partners, with fascinating insights into the biological and psychosocial factors involved. They reveal that up to 10% of new fathers experience clinical depression or anxiety, often showing symptoms through distancing behaviors, substance use, and irritability. Also sharing that fathers undergo documented hormonal shifts including decreased testosterone and increased cortisol. Moving to a multigenerational perspective, the discussion examines how untreated perinatal mental health issues can impact child development through disrupted attachment and the modeling of coping mechanisms. Our experts share crucial warning signs for clinicians and loved ones to watch for, while emphasizing that effective, evidence-based treatments exist, emphasizing that the challenge lies in making them accessible. Whether you're a mental health professional, an expectant parent, or someone supporting a growing family, this episode offers vital insights into creating supportive environments during one of life's most transformative journeys. Listen and join the conversation about how we can better support the mental health of parents and families. Follow The Menninger Clinic on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn to stay up to date on new Mind Dive episodes. To submit a topic for discussion, email podcast@menninger.edu. If you are a new or regular listener, please leave us a review on your favorite listening platform! Visit The Menninger Clinic website to learn more about The Menninger Clinic’s research and leadership role in mental health.
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S3 · E67
Jun 16, 2025 · 32 min
Episode 67: Understanding Racial Stress and Finding Self-Love
Every therapist has faced that moment: a young client struggles with discrimination, but you're unsure how to help them name and navigate what they're experiencing. Dr. Ryan DeLapp has created a roadmap for this crucial work through his Racial, Ethnic and Cultural Healing (REACH) Program and his groundbreaking workbook, "Empower Yourself Against Racial and Cultural Stress." What began as an undergraduate term paper on health disparities evolved into Dr. DeLapp's lifelong mission to address the psychological impact of discrimination. Here he shares insights into his approach such as: • Using inclusive terminology to create space for education rather than defensiveness • Following character stories to help young people identify patterns of cultural stress in their own lives • Customizing coping strategies based on individual values, goals, and specific impacts • Building an "identity filtration system" to maintain self-worth despite encountering bias • Navigating generational differences in how families approach discrimination • Balancing validation of parents' lived experiences with their children's current needs • Incorporating simple screening questions in clinical settings to open conversations about cultural stress • Preparing clinicians through personal growth and comfortable exploration of these topics • Moving beyond acknowledging pain to fostering empowerment and self-love Whether you're a therapist seeking to better serve diverse clients, a parent trying to understand your child's experiences, or someone navigating these waters personally, this episode offers invaluable insights into fostering self-love and resilience in the face of discrimination. Listen to Mind Dive podcast wherever you get your podcasts and visit menningerclinic.org for more episodes. Follow The Menninger Clinic on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn to stay up to date on new Mind Dive episodes. To submit a topic for discussion, email podcast@menninger.edu. If you are a new or regular listener, please leave us a review on your favorite listening platform! Visit The Menninger Clinic website to learn more about The Menninger Clinic’s research and leadership role in mental health.
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May 19, 2025 · 40 min
The Digital Dilemma: Screen Time and Teen Depression
Dr. Meredith Gansner discusses the complex relationship between teen depression and social media, drawing from her groundbreaking research and clinical experience as a child psychiatrist at Boston Children's Hospital. Far from offering simplistic condemnations of digital technology, she presents a nuanced view of how social media both helps and harms vulnerable young people. The conversation reveals how depressed teens often turn to social media as a coping mechanism—finding temporary relief from symptoms through distraction, connection, and validation online. Yet this same engagement can paradoxically intensify isolation, disrupt healthy behaviors like sleep and exercise, and expose teens to potentially harmful content about depression and suicide that doesn't follow safe messaging guidelines. Rather than advocating for rigid restrictions, she encourages a family-based approach to screen time, urging parents to model healthy digital habits and prioritize teaching digital literacy over relying solely on parental control tools. Dr. Gansner emphasizes the importance of open, ongoing conversations about digital media, steering away from abstinence-only mindsets. For more insights on supporting teens in the digital age, listeners are encouraged to check out her book, Teen Depression Gone Viral. For clinicians, educators, and parents struggling to support depressed teens in our digital age, this conversation offers practical wisdom and a balanced perspective that acknowledges both the genuine benefits and serious risks of social media in young lives. Follow The Menninger Clinic on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn to stay up to date on new Mind Dive episodes. To submit a topic for discussion, email podcast@menninger.edu. If you are a new or regular listener, please leave us a review on your favorite listening platform! Visit The Menninger Clinic website to learn more about The Menninger Clinic’s research and leadership role in mental health.
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Apr 21, 2025 · 37 min
Teaching Independence to Neurodiverse Children
What happens when neurodiverse children transition to adulthood without crucial life skills? Kristen Lombardi and Dr. Christine Drew tackle this pressing question in their groundbreaking book "Spectrum of Independence." Drawing from decades of professional experience, they reveal how many children with autism and intellectual disabilities "graduate to the couch" after school ends, lacking the fundamental skills needed for meaningful independence. The conversation unpacks their innovative approach to teaching daily living skills, starting with task analysis—breaking seemingly simple routines like toothbrushing into manageable components. This method transforms overwhelming challenges into achievable goals, allowing parents to pinpoint exactly where their child struggles instead of giving up entirely. "It's not that they can't brush their teeth," Lombardi explains, "it's that they can't complete specific steps within that process." Perhaps most remarkable is their emphasis on starting early. While many parents focus on academics, waiting until adolescence to address independence creates missed opportunities. Teaching a seven-year-old to shower independently provides years of practice before the pressures of adulthood arrive. As Dr. Drew powerfully notes, "People with disabilities' worlds get really small, really fast if we're not careful"—highlighting how limited independence restricts future options for housing, employment, and community involvement. The authors balance practical advice with compassionate realism, acknowledging that independence exists on a spectrum. Their message resonates with profound hope: regardless of where a child falls on that spectrum, progress is possible with the right teaching approach. "We can always teach one more skill," Dr. Drew reminds listeners, offering a lifeline to parents navigating the challenging journey of raising neurodiverse children. Ready to transform your approach to teaching independence? Check out "Spectrum of Independence" and discover practical strategies to expand your child's capabilities and future possibilities. Follow The Menninger Clinic on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn to stay up to date on new Mind Dive episodes. To submit a topic for discussion, email podcast@menninger.edu. If you are a new or regular listener, please leave us a review on your favorite listening platform! Visit The Menninger Clinic website to learn more about The Menninger Clinic’s research and leadership role in mental health.
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Mar 17, 2025 · 41 min
Episode 64: Sleep & Mental Health with Dr. Myrtle Jeroudi
Sleep takes up nearly a third of a patient’s life, yet its importance to mental health outcomes has been drastically understated in therapeutic conversations. Dr. Myrtle Jeroudi, a neurologist at The Menninger Clinic, weighs in on how deeply intertwined sleep disruption is to mental health disorders and why asking the right questions regarding sleep is a crucial step in clinical assessments. A patient’s disrupted sleep habits often signal deeper disturbances and, if left untreated, can lead to worsening symptoms. Early sleep intervention in treatment can lead to better sleep hygiene and habits, potentially eliminating the need for medication-based intervention. As more and more individuals seeking mental health care report sleep issues nationwide, Dr. Jeroudi stresses the need for clinicians to perform robust sleep assessments for better therapeutic outcomes and improved long-term health. “When you don't sleep well, your mood is going to be impacted, but the way we've understood this relationship has changed to be bi-directional, where one affects the other,” notes Dr. Jeroudi. “So, if you have depression or anxiety, you're not getting good sleep. And when you have those bad nights of sleep or poor quality of sleep, it's going to impact how severe your mood disorder is too.” Dr. Myrtle Jeroudi, MD, is a staff neurologist with the Menninger Clinic's Sleep Medicine Service and is an assistant professor in the Menninger Department of Psychiatry & Behavioral Sciences at Baylor College of Medicine. She is board certified in neurology, clinical neurophysiology and sleep medicine. Her research has been published in peer-reviewed journals that include the Journal of Neurotrauma and Epilepsia and Seizure: European Journal of Epilepsy. Dr. Jeroudi earned her bachelor’s degrees in biology and medicine and society from Washington University in St. Louis and her medical degree from UT Southwestern Medical School. Follow The Menninger Clinic on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn to stay up to date on new Mind Dive episodes. To submit a topic for discussion, email podcast@menninger.edu. If you are a new or regular listener, please leave us a review on your favorite listening platform! Visit The Menninger Clinic website to learn more about The Menninger Clinic’s research and leadership role in mental health.
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