In The Room

The Independent / Next Chapter Studios

Two former Westminster insiders reveal how politics and power really work.

Ever wondered what goes on behind closed doors at No 10? Or who’s the first person on the phone when a Prime Minister lands themselves in hot water?

Each week former Deputy Cabinet Secretary Helen MacNamara and Cleo Watson, former political advisor to Theresa May and Boris Johnson, dissect the week’s biggest news, revealing how decisions get made, why they go wrong, and what should happen next.

In The Room is straight-talking, insider analysis with a dose of humour, every week.

This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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34 episodes
Updated Friday

Episodes34

Newest first

May 6 · 35 min
Local elections: Green vs Reform heats up as Starmer comes out swinging
Local elections are often a stick used to beat the government with. That’s never been truer than in this Thursday’s contests. Across the country, voters are expected to desert Labour, exposing the real dividing lines in British politics that have been emerging since before the 2024 general election. In this week’s episode, we reveal whether Labour can survive a two-front battle against Reform and the Greens, what happens when unvetted fringe candidates win seats, and whether projected election disasters will ultimately topple Keir Starmer's leadership. Executive Producers: Olivia Foster and Carrie Rose Producer: Sam Durham Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
April 29 · 31 min
Keir Starmer vs the world: How the PM made his job so much harder
His own MPs are turning on him, the civil service are raging at him and, at next week’s local elections, the public will likely express their unhappiness too. All of this has made Keir Starmer’s job a lot harder. Today, we analyse how Starmer’s handling of the Mandelson vetting scandal has significantly weakened relations with the civil service, why putting a three-line whip on his own MPs is always a revealing move and why picking a political strategy is imperative if he wants to maintain his hold on power. Executive Producers: Olivia Foster and Carrie Rose Producer: Sam Durham Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
April 21 · 34 min
Does Olly Robbins' testimony signal the end for Starmer?
Westminster watchers have had their popcorn out over the past 24 hours. On Monday, Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer was grilled by MPs for two hours. A day later, Sir Olly Robbins, the sacked Permanent Under-Secretary at the Foreign Office, gave a meticulous account to the Foreign Affairs Select Committee. The result: fresh doubts over Starmer’s handling of Peter Mandelson’s appointment as US ambassador. This week on In The Room, former Deputy Cabinet Secretary Helen MacNamara and ex-No.10 special adviser Cleo Watson share their reaction. They discuss how Robbins landed a series of hammer blows on Starmer in his testimony - and why new questions over the appointment of Matthew Doyle could prove to be his undoing. Executive Producers: Olivia Foster and Carrie Rose Producer: Sam Durham Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
April 17 · 29 min
Bonus episode: Has Keir Starmer made a huge mistake sacking Olly Robbins over Mandelson vetting?
There’s a new development in the Mandelson-Epstein-Starmer scandal – and as usual, it raises more questions over No. 10’s dealings than it answers. In this emergency broadcast Helen and Cleo break down the newest revelations about Mandelson’s failed security vetting: Why did the Foreign Office overrule it? How do these processes actually work? And could sacking Olly Robbins shape up to be Starmer’s biggest mistake? Executive Producers: Olivia Foster and Carrie Rose Producer: Sam Durham Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
April 17 · 40 min
‘Not ready for war’: Can Starmer protect the UK?
In the midst of the US-Iran war, Lord Robertson, former Labour defence secretary and NATO chief, didn’t hold back this week. With local elections looming, the Labour grandee stepped into the defence debate, warning the UK is “not safe” and “underprepared” for war. But how much of that falls on Starmer’s government - and how much is the result of years of neglect of Britain’s core military strength: ships, drones, and troops? Since the 2017 Manchester Arena bombing, the UK has stopped 39 late-stage terror plots. So why does our security look strong, while our defence appears exposed? And what, exactly, is the difference? Executive Producers: Olivia Foster and Carrie Rose Producer: Sam Durham Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
April 10 · 32 min
Ceasefire: What’s next for the UK?
What happens inside government when the US President Donald Trump threatens to “destroy a whole civilisation”? As tensions spike following extraordinary comments from Donald Trump, former Deputy Cabinet Secretary Helen MacNamara and Cleo Watson, ex-advisor to Theresa May and Boris Johnson, take you inside the rooms where officials scramble to respond to the unpredictable. From emergency calls with ambassadors to the quiet panic of Whitehall planning for an oil shock, they reveal how the UK system struggles when the rulebook no longer applies. They also ask: how should Keir Starmer handle a leader who changes course by the hour? What would actually be happening behind the scenes during the two-week ceasefire? And as fuel costs rise and global norms wobble, are we watching a temporary crisis - or the start of a completely new world order? Executive Producers: Olivia Foster and Carrie Rose Producer: Sam Durham Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
April 3 · 33 min
Silent discos and kickabouts: Can MPs catch a break?
Whilst much of the country is enjoying a long Easter weekend, it’s far harder for MPs to switch off. And when they do, they might just end up getting lampooned for it. This week Keir Starmer was ridiculed for his 5-a-side prowess, while Labour MP for Walthamstow Stella Creasy faced criticism for posting a clip of herself dancing at a silent disco. In the midst of the US Iran war and a deepening cost of living crisis, Helen and Cleo discuss why it’s so hard for MPs to catch a break and why it’s always a good idea to think before you post on social media. Executive Producers: Olivia Foster and Carrie Rose Producer: Sam Durham Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
March 27 · 34 min
Stockpiling fuel, panic buying loo roll - are we prepped for war?
This week, as Blackrock big boss Larry Fink warned we could be heading for a global recession if the US Iran war continues, we discuss whether people should be prepping for what’s to come. From whether you should have a jerry can of fuel in your garage, to why you should be jotting down your favourite radio stations. Helen and Cleo look back at Covid times, when loo roll was in short supply and panic was rising. They discuss how the government can effectively support citizens, land the right messaging at a time of crisis, and whether having micro-influencers do the work for them is a good strategy. Executive Producers: Olivia Foster and Carrie Rose Producer: Sam Durham Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
March 20 · 38 min
Energy crisis: Is Farage really going to pay your bills?
This week, as the war in the Middle East escalated, energy prices were soaring while the government scrambled to provide emergency support. Some £53million was announced by Ed Milliband, but is it really enough to help families who are struggling with the cost of living? In this episode we pull apart the UK’s cost of living malaise: Nigel Farage’s headline‑grabbing pledge to pay the energy bills of an entire street, how serious the threat of new Trump tariffs really is, and reveal why Britain is so exposed to geopolitical shocks. Executive Producers: Olivia Foster and Carrie Rose Producer: Sam Durham Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
March 13 · 51 min
Definitive guide to Mandelson files: All filler, no killer?
Last month, Parliament demanded the government release the Mandelson files. What followed was five long weeks of waiting. This week, the Prime Minister’s Chief Secretary, Darren Jones, finally stepped up to announce their release. So, what’s inside? A total of 147 pages: 10 pages of contents and introduction, 28 entirely blank pages, 30 pages of standard HR guidance. All filler, no killer? In this episode, we explain the release of the Mandelson files: who decides what gets buried or revealed in a document dump like this, why Peter Mandelson thought he deserved a £500,000 payout, and whether the most explosive revelations are still to come? Timecodes 00:00 Introduction 01:20 Mandelson scandal: Timeline of key events 03:45 What are the Jeffrey Epstein files? 05:11 How are the Mandelson files different? 05:46 The role of the Metropolitan Police 07:03 Parliament’s role in Mandelson file release 07:40 Government’s decision to release the files 10:02 How did these files get put together? 11:05 What’s in the 147 pages? 13:38 Why are there no WhatsApp messages in the files? 16:30 What advice did Starmer receive on Mandelson appointment? 20:35 The due diligence report explained 21:50 “Procuring a young girl”: Inaccurate language in the files 26:30 The government’s ‘fact finding’ mission 29:01 Why this should not be a political decision 35:15 Why did Mandelson demand a payout? 36:30 Mandelson: a cat with nine lives? 39:11 Kemi Badenoch’s reaction 41:45 Why this leaves Starmer so exposed Executive Producers: Olivia Foster and Carrie Rose Producer: Sam Durham Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
March 6 · 42 min
Inside Downing Street when war breaks out
A week is a long time in politics. After a crushing by-election defeat last week, the Prime Minister was hoping for a quiet week to recalibrate. Instead, he got a new war. The US and Israel’s joint attack on Iran has set in motion a whole new set of pressures on his government; navigating the ‘Special Relationship’ with the US, confronting the long shadow of Iraq hanging over the Labour Party and keeping the domestic ship afloat. In this episode, former Deputy Cabinet Secretary Helen MacNamara and Cleo Watson, former Special Advisor to Boris Johnson, reveal the reality of Number 10 on a war footing. What’s it like inside COBR meetings? Does the ‘boys club’ mentality take over? And how the hell do you keep the country running? Timecodes: 00:00 Introduction 01:28 Iran War: recap of the week’s events 04:41 Domestic backdrop: Spring statement 07:01 The strange geography of 10 Downing Street this week 09:45 How to spot the signs of war in Number 10 12:45 History lesson: Gordon Brown’s COBR meetings 16:51 Why Boris Johnson didn’t like COBR meetings 19:40 The ‘Boys Club’ mindset at a time of war 24:03 Party politics during war 26:30 Why the Conservatives haven’t backed Labour 30:15 The importance of a US ambassador 31:50 Bizarre phone calls with POTUS 33:10 Theresa May holding hands with Trump 35:28 What should Starmer do next? Cover image: PA Executive Producers: Olivia Foster and Carrie Rose Producer: Sam Durham Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
February 27 · 43 min
Mandelson and Starmer: Is the HR process to blame?
The fallout from the Prime Minister’s decision to appoint Peter Mandelson as US Ambassador isn’t going away. But it’s far from his only controversial hire. Former Deputy Cabinet Secretary Helen MacNamara and Cleo Watson, former No. 10 special advisor, analyse Downing Street's hiring and firing crisis. They explain how hiding behind "process" is actively damaging Starmer’s ability to lead with integrity, asking the questions Number 10 won't answer: How exactly did Mandelson clear vetting? How did Matthew Doyle - Starmer’s former Director of Communications - fly under the radar despite ties to a convicted pedophile? And why on earth is the Minister for Inquiries now the subject of an inquiry? Cover image: PA Executive Producers: Olivia Foster and Carrie Rose Producer: Sam Durham Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
February 20 · 40 min
Starmer: Symptoms of a PM in trouble
What does it feel like to be inside Number 10 when the PM’s power is fading? With pressure mounting for Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer to go, former Deputy Cabinet Secretary Helen MacNamara and Cleo Watson, ex-advisor to Theresa May and Boris Johnson, reveal the sights, sounds - and even smells - that emerge when the foundations at 10 Downing Street start to shake. They also offer up some sage advice to an imperilled PM and ask: How can he turn this sinking ship around? Is it time for him to dance like no one’s watching? And is there anyone who can help him? Cover image credit: PA Executive Producers: Olivia Foster and Carrie Rose Producer: Sam Durham Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
February 6 · 1 min
In The Room - Trailer
Two former Westminster insiders reveal how politics and power really work. Ever wondered what goes on behind closed doors at No 10? Or who’s the first person on the phone when a Prime Minister lands themselves in hot water? Each week former Deputy Cabinet Secretary Helen MacNamara and Cleo Watson, former political advisor to Theresa May and Boris Johnson, dissect the week’s biggest news, revealing how decisions get made, why they go wrong, and what should happen next. In The Room is straight-talking, insider analysis with a dose of humour, every Friday. Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.