In The Room

The Independent / Next Chapter Studios

Two former Westminster insiders reveal how politics and power really work.

Ever wondered what goes on behind closed doors at No 10? Or who’s the first person on the phone when a Prime Minister lands themselves in hot water?

Each week former Deputy Cabinet Secretary Helen MacNamara and Cleo Watson, former political advisor to Theresa May and Boris Johnson, dissect the week’s biggest news, revealing how decisions get made, why they go wrong, and what should happen next.

In The Room is straight-talking, insider analysis with a dose of humour, every week.

This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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34 episodes
Updated Friday

Episodes34

Newest first

Friday · 43 min
Who's winning the summer? Burnham, Badenoch and Farage assessed
As Andy Burnham's second week in power draws to a close, his rivals are scratching their heads and plotting their summer challenges – with mixed results. Green leader Zack Polanski is facing heat over yet another social media misdemeanour, it’s far from all quiet for Nigel Farage on the Clacton front, and the Liberal Democrats are nowhere to be seen – time for another Ed Davey stunt? Meanwhile, Kemi Badenoch is preparing to embark on a summer tour with the highest approval rating of any Tory leader since April 2021. Today, we bring you the ultimate preview of Westminster's summer. During August we'll be having our own summer recess, bringing you a special interview series: Lessons From No.10. Jimmy McLoughlin – the podcast host who landed the first interview with the new PM and a former business director in No.10 – tells us what it's really like meeting the world's most powerful CEOs. Peter Hill – principal private secretary to Theresa May – describes what it's like being up close with Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump and Angela Merkel. And Lee Cain – who found himself almost running the country when Boris Johnson was hospitalised during Covid – tells us how to hold government communications together in a crisis. As a new prime minister settles in, this series is the ultimate primer for life inside 10 Downing Street. We'll be back from the start of September, when Andy Burnham faces Kemi Badenoch at PMQs for the very first time – and the countdown to party conference season begins. Executive Producer: Rod Ardehali Producer: Sam Durham Video Editor: Vali Raza Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Tuesday · 36 min
Too much Manchester? Andy Burnham's first big interview unpacked
Andy Burnham finally sat down to face some old school scrutiny this week. After weeks of winning praise for his social-first approach to communications – Britain's first TikTok Prime Minister? – he finally sat down for a proper grilling with the BBC's Laura Kuenssberg. Today, we unpack his performance. How did he handle the tough questions on Trump and Putin? Is he talking about Manchester a little too much? And beyond the polished messaging, does he sound like a Prime Minister with a convincing plan to govern? Meanwhile, No.10's policy fruit machine spun again with a surprise overhaul of technical education, and Count Binface launched a manifesto that might just be the clearest piece of political communication of the week. Executive Producer: Rod Ardehali Producer: Sam Durham Video Editor: Vali Raza Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
July 24 · 35 min
Andy Burnham week one: promises, pitfalls and the prison problem
Andy Burnham has survived his first week. The former Manchester mayor turned prime minister is now in his spiritual home – No.10 North – after repeatedly calling it the best day of his life. It's been a week of 6am policy drops, wall-to-wall coverage and Burnham firmly at the centre of every story. But Helen and Cleo aren't just here to admire the opening moves. They want to know whether the presidential style is already tipping into hubris, what the prison U-turn actually signals about the government underneath the announcements – and perhaps most importantly of all… why does he keep hugging everybody? Executive Producer: Rod Ardehali Producer: Sam Durham Video Editor: Vali Raza Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
July 21 · 34 min
Andy Burnham is Prime Minister. Now what?
After weeks of speculation, Andy Burnham finally unveiled his first cabinet late on Tuesday, with John Healey the surprise choice as chancellor, Ed Miliband moving to the Foreign Office and Shabana Mahmood remaining as home secretary. Then came his first speech outside Downing Street. Dispensing with the familiar prime ministerial lectern, Burnham promised to end rough sleeping, reviving one of the defining pledges of his time as mayor of Greater Manchester. In the latest episode of In The Room, we pick apart what his appointments tell us about the government he wants to lead, who has emerged with real power, who has been cast aside, and whether the promises he's making now are ones he can actually keep. Executive Producer: Rod Ardehali Producer: Sam Durham Video editor: Jose Luis Ugarte Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
July 17 · 31 min
Inside Andy Burnham’s No 10 takeover
Andy Burnham has finally been crowned Labour Party leader. Attention turns now to his top team, with home secretary Shabana Mahmood hotly tipped to be named chancellor. Meanwhile, Ed Miliband and Wes Streeting continue to cast a shadow over Burnham’s picks. On Monday, after formalities with the King, Burnham will become the UK’s seventh prime minister in ten years. Today, we tell you what to expect in Monday’s power transition, discuss what his top team might signal, and ask whether Shabana Mahmood will make the best choice as chancellor. Read more from The Independent: Mr Milburn’s historic NEET review deserves cross-party support Andy Burnham claims he has a plan for change – it’s a shame he still hasn’t told us what it is What Shabana Mahmood as chancellor could mean for your money and taxes Executive Producer: Rod Ardehali Producer: Sam Durham Video editor: Vali Raza Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
July 14 · 34 min
Can Andy Burnham succeed where Keir Starmer failed?
It’s Keir Starmer’s final week in office. 739 days ago, after a rejection of the Tories and a sweeping landslide for Labour, he became PM. So where did it all go wrong for him? Today we take a trip down memory lane to summer 2024 and the beginning of Keir Starmer’s rocky first 100 days and ask: can Andy Burnham learn from Keir Starmer's mistakes? Executive Producer: Rod Ardehali Producer: Sam Durham Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
July 10 · 39 min
Will Andy Burnham make you richer?
Andy Burnham has promised “growth in every postcode”. It is a big, attractive political line – the sort of thing voters want to hear after years of feeling poorer, public services feeling stretched, and wages struggling to keep up with the cost of living. It is also a promise that tells us a lot about Burnham’s politics. He has long argued that Britain is too London-centric, that Whitehall is too slow, and that too many decisions about towns and cities are made by people who do not live in them. Today, Helen and Cleo analyse Burnham’s economic proposals so far and give insight into the harsh reality politicians face when promising ‘growth’ - does Burnham have enough time before the next general election for people to really feel this change? Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
July 7 · 32 min
The real reason Nigel Farage fired himself
Nigel Farage got Westminster watchers in a frenzy today. A cryptic tweet promising a statement on “the future of my public life” triggered two hours of fevered speculation: resignation as Reform leader, departure from Parliament, or another act of political theatre. What followed was a scathing attack on the media and political class he routinely rails against - despite his own deep entanglement with both. With practiced ease, he cast himself as an embattled outsider, explaining his anger, his treatment in public life, and the need for a £5m donation from a Thailand-based crypto billionaire to fund his personal security. A resignation did eventually come - Farage confirmed he will resign as MP for Clacton, forcing a by-election - in which he intends to stand again. The manoeuvre all but guarantees him another summer of headlines, airtime and attention, cutting neatly across Andy Burnham’s attempt to seize the political agenda. Executive Producer: Rod Ardehali Producer: Sam Durham Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
July 3 · 38 min
Has Nigel Farage lost his Midas touch?
Nigel Farage has spent decades turning political setbacks into opportunities. Parties have risen and fallen around him, controversies have come and gone, and yet he has always managed to emerge stronger. But this week feels different. Questions over a £5 million gift from a crypto billionaire, lucrative outside earnings, a series of disappointing by-election results and an unusually defensive run of media appearances have prompted fresh questions about whether Britain's most resilient political survivor is finally losing his golden touch. Helen MacNamara and Cleo Watson ask whether this is just another Westminster bubble story or the first real sign that Farage is being judged not as a political insurgent, but as a prime minister-in-waiting. Executive Producer: Rod Ardehali Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
June 30 · 49 min
Andy Burnham wants to be Britain’s least powerful PM
Devolution – or devo-maxxing – was the order of the day in Andy Burnham’s most significant speech yet on how he would govern. In front of an eager press pack that scrambled up from London, the prime minister-in-waiting set out a bold agenda focused on devolving power, reforming Whitehall and reindustrialising Britain. But devolution is a tune plenty of leaders have played before. Tony Blair turbo-charged it after 1997, George Osborne promised a Northern Powerhouse, and Boris Johnson made plenty of noise about levelling up. Still, Britain remains top-heavy, with power and wealth concentrated in London. The UK also sends a far greater share of tax revenue to central government than almost all other major economies. So is now the right time to devo-maxx? And is Burnham the right man to do it? Executive Producer: Rod Ardehali Producer: Sam Durham Video Editor: Vali Raza Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
June 23 · 38 min
Why Andy Burnham might not be ready for No 10
Andy Burnham’s camp is caught between euphoria and fear. After his victory in the Makerfield by-election and Keir Starmer’s resignation, the path to No 10 appears to have opened up for the former Manchester mayor. On what would be his third attempt at the Labour leadership, Burnham could be prime minister by mid-July – and the UK’s seventh in ten years. But with the clock already ticking, is his team prepared for power? Helen MacNamara and Cleo Watson assess the mood inside Burnham’s camp, the mistakes he must avoid repeating from the Starmer years, and why greater urgency and ruthlessness will be needed if he is to govern successfully. Executive Producer: Rod Ardehali Producer: Sam Durham Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
June 19 · 33 min
Makerfield by-election: Has Andy Burnham united the left?
It wasn’t so close after all. Andy Burnham achieved 9,241 votes more than the second place Reform candidate, Robert Kenyon. Even talk of Restore Britain stealing votes from Reform mattered little in the end. The reality of the Makerfield by-election is it’s a thumping win for Labour’s Andy Burnham, and a disappointing night for Nigel Farage, whose attempts to dial up division in recent weeks didn’t pay off. In this bonus episode we react to this week’s two Westminster by-elections where voters in Makerfield and Aberdeen South went to the polls. The latter is an interesting case study of single issue campaigning and a sign of a possible Tory revival in Scotland. We also reveal what our advice to Andy Burnham would be as efforts to oust Keir Starmer from No 10 heat up. Executive Producer: Rod Ardehali Producer: Sam Durham Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
June 16 · 33 min
Starmer activates legacy mode while Farage activates Substack
This week, Keir Starmer announced a ban on social media for under-16s. It’s a punchy policy announcement. And it’s a clear sign that he has activated legacy mode. Today, we ask: what will his legacy really look like? And why are prime ministers obsessed about their legacy? On the week of the announcement, Nigel Farage has dialled up his divisive rhetoric with a brand new Substack page. His numbers on the platform are already towering over Starmer’s. We’ll discuss the prime minister's inability to engage in and win arguments with fringe political leaders, giving breathing room to extremist ideas in the UK - and ask: why the hell are politicians all on Substack anyway? Executive Producers: Olivia Foster and Carrie Rose Producer: Sam Durham Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
June 10 · 40 min
Inside the by-election that could change UK politics
Next week will see one of the most consequential by-elections in UK political history. Journalists, pollsters and politicians are swamping the small market town near Wigan - where the voters of Makerfield could make Burnham king. At the time of recording, Labour are 10 points ahead of Reform in the polls. To close the gap, Reform must win a battle of ideas on the right, where Restore Britain are currently polling at 8%. In this episode, Helen and Cleo discuss what happens if Burnham actually wins - will he become prime minister any time soon? And is Keir Starmer really in ‘legacy mode’? Executive Producers: Olivia Foster and Carrie Rose Producer: Sam Durham Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
June 2 · 42 min
Mandelson files: 1,504 pointless pages?
After 83 days of waiting, the government has finally released the second tranche of files on the appointment of Peter Mandelson as US ambassador to Washington. The first tranche was already heavy on the filler, but the latest set of documents takes it to a whole new level. It features an incredible amount of seemingly pointless material: Mandelson’s resignation letter appears 8 times, there’s pages of printed versions of Microsoft Teams notifications and the full transcript of a President Trump interview with ABC News. Today, we dissect the files, picking out the parts that do really tell us a lot - in particular about how Peter Mandelson himself operated behind the scenes. Executive Producers: Olivia Foster and Carrie Rose Producer: Sam Durham Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
May 27 · 38 min
Ex-SNP chief’s embezzlement scandal and the shady role of money in politics
A Dyson floor lamp, a £4,000 fountain pen, boxsets of Scandi noir TV dramas. These are just a handful of the items that former SNP Chief Executive Peter Murrell purchased with the £400k he embezzled from the party over the course of a decade. The full list is even longer. Murrell has been remanded in custody and likely faces lengthy prison time. Ever since the eruption of the 2009 MPs’ expenses scandal, there’s been a dark cloud of mistrust over politicians. Yet some politicians still play fast and loose with public trust, morality and transparency. Today, we discuss the shady world of money in politics. We'll also debate whether MPs ought to have a pay rise - and you might be surprised about the outcome. Executive Producers: Olivia Foster and Carrie Rose Producer: Sam Durham Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
May 20 · 40 min
Burnham or Brexit 2.0: Inside the leadership contest latest
With the writing seemingly on the wall for Keir Starmer, two contenders have already thrown their names into the ring for his job. Former Health Secretary Wes Streeting has launched an appeal to heartland Labour voters, suggesting he might be vying to initiate a "Brexit 2.0." Meanwhile, Andy Burnham, the "King of the North," has made it clear that if he wins the Makerfield by-election, he wants in at No.10. But do either of them have what it takes? This week, Helen MacNamara and Cleo Watson discuss the two frontrunners for Westminster’s most coveted job, how Wes might have messed up his chances already, and whether Burnham can bring some of his Manchester magic down south. Executive Producers: Olivia Foster and Carrie Rose Producer: Sam Durham Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
May 15 · 28 min
Bonus episode: Burnham's long path to power
It’s hotting up in the bid to become Labour leader. Angela Rayner’s tax affairs are cleared up, Wes Streeting has resigned as health secretary and Andy Burnham has found a route back to Westminster. But Keir Starmer is resolutely staying put – for now. Today, we analyse who really has the numbers, what the public thinks of all this and assess Andy Burnham’s chances of winning in Makerfield. Plus, Cleo gives her insider analysis on what it really takes to launch a leadership bid. Executive Producers: Olivia Foster and Carrie Rose Producer: Sam Durham Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
May 12 · 42 min
Streeting, Burnham, Rayner: Coming for Starmer's job?
Keir Starmer is still clinging to power. But when this morning’s 9:30am cabinet meeting began, that outcome looked far from certain. More than 81 MPs have now called for him to step down - the number required to trigger a leadership contest - but only if they unite behind a single challenger. For now, they remain split. And, in characteristically procedural style, Starmer has managed to buy himself another day. Today, we analyse the political manoeuvring of a thrilling few days in Westminster and give our advice to the runners and riders lining up to replace the Labour leader. Executive Producers: Olivia Foster and Carrie Rose Producer: Sam Durham Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
May 8 · 28 min
Local elections: Reform's big day out spells more trouble for Starmer
Labour is losing votes to the Greens and seats to Reform. Across England, Scotland and Wales, the electoral map is shifting in ways not seen for years. The foundations of the two-party system are looking more fragile than ever. In this bonus episode, we ask: are voters sending a message Westminster still isn’t hearing? What does history suggest about Starmer’s chances of staying in power? And what do Labour’s losses to both the Greens and Reform reveal about the future of British politics? Executive Producers: Olivia Foster and Carrie Rose Producer: Sam Durham Find the best clips from the podcast and more from Helen and Cleo on the show's Instagram page here. Email your questions to Helen and Cleo on intheroom@independent.co.uk. This podcast is part of The Independent Podcast Network and is produced in association with Next Chapter Studios. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.