Chaos and Creativity

Battling Hollywood to Save It: The One with Paul Fischer

In 1977 I was third in line for the first showing of Star Wars on its opening day at the Coronet theater in San Francisco. It was the first time I had ever seen people line up for a movie. The atmosphere was incredible. A movie the studios anticipated would do little business was on its way to becoming a cultural phenomenon. At twelve years old, Star Wars had radically changed my life by introducing me to filmmaking. Little did I know its author, George Lucas, along with filmmakers Francis Ford Coppolla and Steven Spielberg, were in the middle of radically changing Hollywood. They were saving it from collapse by paradoxically fighting against it. It all started on the Warner Brothers lot. Lucas, a USC film school graduate, started working for an up-and-coming director named Francis Ford Coppola. Across town at Universal Studios, Steven Spielberg was desperately trying to break out of his studio apprenticeship so he could start directing his own films. The three would become friends and rivals, each outdoing each other for highest grossing movie of the year during the seventies and early eighties. The story is told by Paul Fischer in his book The Last Kings of Hollywood. On this episode of the Chaos and Creativity podcast, I talk to Paul about how the book came about and how his filmmaking aspirations turned into writing about the filmmakers who reinvented American cinema. Mentioned in This Episode Books by Paul Fischer: The Last Kings of Hollywood The Man Who Invented Motion Pictures A Kim Jong-Il Production Quotes about Writing and Art: “Writing is not like painting where you add. It is not what you put on the canvas that the reader sees. Writing is more like a sculpture where you remove, you eliminate in order to make the work visible.” – Elie Wiesel “Writing nonfiction is more like sculpture, a matter of shaping the research into the finished thing. Novels are like paintings, specifically watercolors. Every stroke you put down you have to go with.” – Joan Didion Other: The Coronet Theater, San Francisco The Devil in the White City: Murder, Magic, and Madness at the Fair That Changed America, by Erik Larson Easy Riders, Raging Bulls by Peter Biskind A Moveable Feast, Ernest Hemingway The Outsiders, S.E. Hinton Man on Wire, directed by James Marsh Searching for Sugar Man, directed by Malik Bandjellou Flicker, by Theodore Roszak Megadoc, directed by Mike Figgis Industry, directed by Mickey Down and Konrad Kay Want More Chaos & Creativity? Subscribe! Be cool, be classy, subscribe to email updates. You'll be the first to know when a new episode drops. Subscribe now. Connect with the Show Hosts: Kimi Recor and Lou Lesko Producer: Cheramie Johnson Editor: Alexandra Covey Music: Kieran Kerwin Instagram: @chaosandcreativitypodcast Visit Our Sponsor BlinkBid, Bidding & Producing Software for the Creative Industries

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Flea Bag and Other Originals in the Time of AI Slop

It’s a classic Kimi and Lou episode of best laid plans. They start by talking about how professional creatives are now digital janitors to AI slop, then quickly get lost in the woods talking about Universal Basic Income, Phoebe Waller Bridge’s Flea Bag and myriad other topics loosely tied to the main topic. “Loosely” is doing a lot of work in that previous sentence. Mentioned in This Episode Flea Bag by Phoebe Waller Bridge No Time to Die featuring Daniel Craig The Guardian: Freelancers are getting buried with ‘soulless’ AI slop cleanup Hurt by Nine Inch Nails Brandy Hellville and The Cult of Fast Fashion Want More Chaos & Creativity? Subscribe! Be cool, be classy, subscribe to email updates. You'll be the first to know when a new episode drops. Subscribe now. Connect with the Show Hosts: Kimi Recor and Lou Lesko Producer: Cheramie Johnson Editor: Alexandra Covey Music: Kieran Kerwin Instagram: @chaosandcreativitypodcast Visit Our Sponsor BlinkBid, Bidding & Producing Software for the Creative Industries

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Dorothy Robbins: A State of Musical Being

I’ll admit to having a ridiculously pedestrian perception of classical music artists. Pianists specifically. Call it lack of direct exposure, or maybe too much Bugs Bunny when I was a kid. Or maybe, maybe, maybe it’s the awe I feel when I watch a pianist play with a supernova-like intensity that I’m not sure I’ve ever experienced. Is this envy? Insecurity? Probably a blend. My next guest, classical pianist Dorothy Robbins, was kind enough to set me straight when she visited the Chaos & Creativity headquarters in Marin county. Dorothy Robbins is the epitome of talent and grace. A confident young woman with a warm and friendly disposition that mildly contradicts what one might expect when looking at her long list of accomplishments. Which—so far—have culminated in her recently received Doctorate of Musical Arts in Piano Performance. It turns out the political dynamics of the classical music space are not that dissimilar from the ones found in Hollywood. Unexpected, but understandable when you look at the competitive nature of the landscape. What became abundantly obvious after my conversation with Dorothy is the pursuit of a career in classical music is meant for the talented and the hyper-driven. It starts with a choice that’s made at a young age, Dorothy was ten when she started. What follows is a relentless pursuit of perfection. Classical music is a lifestyle choice that requires superhuman dedication for a very long run. Mentioned in This Episode Leopold Whiplash, written and directed by Damien Chazelle Dorothy Robbins on Instagram Want More Chaos & Creativity? Subscribe! Be cool, be classy, subscribe to email updates. You'll be the first to know when a new episode drops and you'll also receive our quarterly newsletter Memos to the Chaotic & Creative. Subscribe now. Connect with the Show Hosts: Kimi Recor and Lou Lesko Producer: Cheramie Johnson Editor: Alexandra Covey Music: Kieran Kerwin Instagram: @chaosandcreativitypodcast Visit Our Sponsor BlinkBid, Bidding & Producing Software for the Creative Industries

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Mood Triggers

We’ve all been there. Stuck in traffic, running late, woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Caught a mood from somebody else. Barista didn’t quite get your morning coffee right. And what started as a crap moment begins to seem like a crap day, a crap week, a crap life. You. Are. Spiraling. You know you might pull other people in with you. What happens next? In this minisode, Kimi and Lou share their secret inner sages’ insights into pulling out of emotional tailspins before minor mood changes become major meltdowns. But most importantly — if you take nothing else away from listening — remember never, ever to get in the way of Lou and his morning latte. And also, don’t give Kimi too much espresso. Mentioned in This Episode Red Whale Coffee, San Rafael CA Want More Chaos & Creativity? Subscribe! Be cool, be classy, subscribe to email updates. You'll be the first to know when a new episode drops and you'll also receive our quarterly newsletter Memos to the Chaotic & Creative. Subscribe now. Connect with the Show Hosts: Kimi Recor and Lou Lesko Producer: Cheramie Johnson Editor: Alexandra Covey Music: Kieran Kerwin Instagram: @chaosandcreativitypodcast Visit Our Sponsor BlinkBid, Bidding & Producing Software for the Creative Industries

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Remembering the Art of Gathering

If you look at map of Los Angeles, you’ll see where I used to live on Kittyhawk Avenue is in close proximity the airport. There was a hide-a-key near the back door. If you knew me, or knew someone who knew me, you were welcome to stay— on the couch if I was in town, or in the bedroom if I was out of town. If you stayed more than two nights, compensation was a bottle of wine or bourbon. That included epic breakfasts if I didn’t have an early call time on any given morning. Another quality of my place was the lack of street cleaning restrictions. Many of my friends would plan their departure and arrival times around my schedule so they could park their car in front of my place (free) and have a short visit before traveling. I was always happy to do an airport run which took no more than fifteen minutes round trip. With all people in and out, Kittyhawk, or Lou’s LAX Lounge as it was often affectionately called, morphed into a spontaneous gathering hub. I’d throw together last-minute dinner parties at long tables thrown up in a backyard that abutted La Tijera boulevard. In this episode of Chaos & Creativity Kimi and I remember the Kittyhawk days and how those spontaneous gatherings would lead to creative conversations and ideas that would inspire music, videos, and photos. We also go deep on why AI will never replicate or replace the simple act of getting together. *Note: Kimi sounds a little funny in this episode. We had an audio glitch, but we still wanted to share the content. Thanks for listening. Mentioned in This Episode: The piece by Thomas Flight about how AI can't make creative decisions. The Art of Gathering by Priya Parker Miranda Lee Richards See the image of Miranda on our episode blog post. Want More Chaos & Creativity? Subscribe! Be cool, be classy, subscribe to email updates. You'll be the first to know when a new episode drops and you'll also receive our quarterly newsletter Memos to the Chaotic & Creative. Subscribe now. Connect with the Show Hosts: Kimi Recor and Lou Lesko Producer: Cheramie Johnson Editor: Alexandra Covey Music: Kieran Kerwin Instagram: @chaosandcreativitypodcast Visit Our Sponsor BlinkBid, Bidding & Producing Software for the Creative Industries

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The Art of Sound Part 3: Open Up Your Ears

It’s three o’clock in the afternoon. I’ve just arrived home from another sophomore day at a new high school I started attending only a few weeks earlier. Melding into this new society as an outsider isn’t going poorly, but it has its challenges. On the turntable of my father’s hi-fi is the just released album Moving Pictures from Rush. The opening song Tom Sawyer, a song about individualism, personal autonomy, and refusing to conform to society's expectations becomes my guide and my light during this awkward time of transition. It encourages me to hold onto my integrity and keep things on my terms as I integrate into the new school. I could’ve never guessed this experience would ultimately become a template for my life. I’ve often wondered if Tom Sawyer would have had the same emotional resonance if I listened to it on sonically inferior ear buds. Given my recent experience into the audiophile space, I don’t think so. The word audiophile conjures a sense of elitism. A rarefied club for obsessive people with healthy bank accounts who have arcane knowledge of specialized audio gear. Our next guest thinks that’s the wrong way to look at things. He believes anyone loves music and cares how it sounds is an audiophile. Through his YouTube channel, A British Audiophile, Tarun offers expert advice in a remarkably approachable way. He conveys guidance to people like me who are just starting their audiophile journey but have a limited budget. That said he also appeals to the fanatics who do invest in top end components. The stuff that will make you drool with envy, but also admiration owing to the exquisite engineering driven by a fervor for sonic purity. In a phrase: Tarun’s passion is for maximizing the listener’s experience through a combination of practical advice and knowledgeable guidance about gear. He believes that sometimes listening to music is a spiritual experience, as it was, however unknowingly, to me back in high school. An experience that shaped my life as I’m sure music in someway does for everyone reading this. Mentioned in This Episode A Screaming Life: Into the Superunknown with Soundgarden and Beyond Check out Tarun's suggestions for the beginning audiophile. Want More Chaos & Creativity? Subscribe! Be cool, be classy, subscribe to email updates. You'll be the first to know when a new episode drops and you'll also receive our quarterly newsletter Memos to the Chaotic & Creative. Subscribe now. Connect with the Show Hosts: Kimi Recor and Lou Lesko Producer: Cheramie Johnson Editor: Alexandra Covey Music: Kieran Kerwin Instagram: @chaosandcreativitypodcast Visit Our Sponsor BlinkBid, Bidding & Producing Software for the Creative Industries

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Fair (and Unfair) Trade: Giving It Away for Free

In this week’s minisode: Lou offers to write a treatment for a screenplay with a spectacular premise and a really good story. Kimi randomly gets cast in a short film and is relieved when it gets canceled. Drawing on decades of experience as creative professionals, Kimi and Lou share how to ask the right questions when given the “opportunity” to work for free, when trade feels like a valuable exchange, when saying yes is stupid, and how to say no when it needs to be said. Connect with the Show Hosts: Kimi Recor and Lou Lesko Producer: Cheramie Johnson Editor: Alexandra Covey Instagram: @chaosandcreativitypodcast Visit Our Sponsor BlinkBid, Bidding & Producing Software for the Creative Industries

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The Art of Sound, Part 2: - A World of Sound All in Your Head

Until I met three time academy award nominee Tom Myers, it never crossed my mind that a blank page to a writer is total silence to a sound designer. That something as subtle as a dog barking in the distance in a movie is as intentional a choice as the more conspicuous murmuring of a populated cafe underneath the dialog of actors in a scene. The deeper Myers and I dug into what he does for a living at Skywalker Sound, the more I realized that sound design and sound mixing are forms of aural magic performed by wizards. Subtlety is art, ethos and praxis in this enchanting world. A world where the latitude between not enough and too much is shockingly narrow and requires good ears, a rich imagination and clever, clever instinct. Links: The Wilhelm Scream The Last Kings of Hollywood Connect with the Show Hosts: Kimi Recor and Lou Lesko Producer: Cheramie Johnson Editor: Alexandra Covey Instagram: @chaosandcreativitypodcast Visit Our Sponsor BlinkBid, Bidding & Producing Software for the Creative Industries

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The Art of Sound, Part 1: It’s Simple – You Just Have to Listen

Close your eyes. Listen. Which sounds are soothing? Which ones drive you up a tree? Currently, outside my house there’s a mocking bird that’s making me a little crazy. But in the distance the sound of a freight train whistle is eliciting feelings of happiness. No doubt because of an experience I had around trains when I was 12. Bring that train sound two miles closer, it would probably annoy me to no end. Close, far, types of birds, types of trains, all of nature—this is Dr. Stéphane Pigeon’s world. And he’s built a way to bring it to the public on his site MyNoise.net. From his days as an eighteen-year-old sound engineer for Roland synthesizers to recording the subtle voices of the natural world, Dr. Pigeon reflects on the art of crafting complex soundscapes, the beauty of silence, and how his work can invite you into the deeply personal search for the perfect sound. Links: https://mynoise.net/ https://perthirtysix.com/how-the-heck-do-synthesizers-work Connect with the Show Hosts: Kimi Recor and Lou Lesko Producer: Cheramie Johnson Editor: Alexandra Covey Instagram: @chaosandcreativitypodcast Visit Our Sponsor BlinkBid, Bidding & Producing Software for the Creative Industries

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Everything Feels Legit

Big changes are afoot at Chaos & Creativity, as our long time producer and good friend Claire Duncan moseys down the road of life to her next big thing. We wish her nothing but the best. Lest Kimi and Lou be left alone too long without supervision, we’re excited to announce the arrival of our new producer Cheramie “CJ” Johnson. We’re also thrilled to welcome Alexandra Covey to the podcast editing bay. She’ll be cutting together Chaos & Creativity as well as our sister podcast Mothers of Creativity. In this episode: Everything Feels Legit—everything ends up on the nose as Kimi and Lou utilize an outline to attempt episode cohesion. What results is an extra dose of chaos, with Kimi and Lou covering everything from fellating a lightsaber to Y2K fashion and Facebook regrets to the reflecting pool and beyond. Come for the disastrous segues, stay for the synergy, and listen closely for hints of a 2-part series on the art of sound, coming soon. Mentioned in the episode: The Chaos and Creativity blog The Chaos and Creativity Instagram The reflecting pool debacle The Last Kings of Hollywood by Paul Fischer Silo on Apple TV The Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders Documentary, Part 2 Visit Our Sponsor BlinkBid, Bidding & Producing Software for the Creative Industries

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We Don't Have to Be Good at Everything

In this episode, Lou shares about a do-it-yourself project that flopped, revealing that 1) acoustics is an art form, and 2) he's terrible at acoustics. So Lou and Kimi talk about which skills are worth learning as creative professionals, and what's important to delegate out. Reflecting on their younger years, they wonder what happened to the time and energy they once had to learn new skills from scratch. Ultimately, they discover that creative maturity brings the very-punk discernment to know what's worth learning and what's best left to the experts. Connect with the Show Hosts: Kimi Recor and Lou Lesko Producer: Cheramie Johnson Instagram: @chaosandcreativitypodcast Visit Our Sponsor BlinkBid, Bidding & Producing Software for the Creative Industries

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Will Waterworth: Cinematic Photography & Storytelling

This week on Chaos & Creativity, we’re joined by photographer and visual artist William Waterworth. His work feels like scenes from an old film — dark, cinematic, and full of emotion. We talk about why he prefers shooting out in nature instead of a studio, how literature and art inspire his photography, and why he looks for real character over the “perfect” model. We also get into film vs. digital photography, creating timeless black-and-white images, and what it means to make art that actually feels something in a world full of content. If you’re into photography, fashion, creativity, or visual storytelling, this is a really good one. Check out more of Will’s work: Instagram: @willwaterworth Website: William Waterworth Connect with the Show Hosts: Kimi Recor and Lou Lesko Producer: Claire Duncan Instagram: @chaosandcreativitypodcast Visit Our Sponsor BlinkBid, Bidding & Producing Software for the Creative Industries

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The Truth About Making Money as an Artist

Do you have to choose between being cool and being rich? In this episode, we talk about what it feels like to be creative right now. There’s so much content everywhere, and it can feel like you have to turn everything into money. But does that take away from what makes something cool? We get into whether art is really valued today, how social media has changed things, and if you can actually make a living from your creativity. Can you be both cool and successful? Or do you have to pick one? A simple, honest conversation about creativity, money, and where we’re at right now. Connect with the Show Hosts: Kimi Recor and Lou Lesko Producer: Claire Duncan Instagram: @chaosandcreativitypodcast Visit Our Sponsor BlinkBid, Bidding & Producing Software for the Creative Industries

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Annicka Ekvall: Music, Connection & Becoming a Mom

In this episode, Kimi and Lou sit down with Annicka Ekvall, a Swedish-American DJ and producer making major waves in the minimal melodic house scene. Closely associated with Insomniac, Annicka has performed on the world's biggest stages, including EDC, Coachella and Burning Man. She joins us to discuss the magic of staying grounded while playing for thousands and why her newest role, being a mom to a baby girl is her greatest blessing and inspiration. Key Highlights: The Power of Presence: Why being grounded on stage is the secret to creating a truly transformative experience for a crowd. Connection Over Impression: Shifting the focus from playing a set to connecting with the soul of the audience. Storytelling in Music: How Annicka uses house, soul, and funk vibrations to tell a narrative of love and inspiration. Connect with Annicka Instagram: @foreverannicka Stream Her Sets: https://youtu.be/vbyIioz2yfE?si=MmklxMZXqGUQ15xf Connect with the Show Hosts: Kimi Recor and Lou Lesko Producer: Claire Duncan Instagram: @chaosandcreativitypodcast Visit Our Sponsor BlinkBid, Bidding & Producing Software for the Creative Industries

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How to Take Criticism as a Creative

How do you handle criticism when you are deeply connected to your work? In this episode, Lou and Kimi talk about what it really feels like to receive feedback as a creative. Whether you are an artist, producer, designer, writer or entrepreneur, learning how to take criticism can be the key to growing your ideas and your confidence. Creatives often become emotionally attached to their work, which can make it hard to know if something is actually good or needs more development. Lou and Kimi share how they personally deal with criticism and why honest feedback has become an important part of their creative process. They also discuss how preparing yourself mentally can make a big difference when receiving criticism. Being grounded, well rested and open can help you respond thoughtfully instead of reacting emotionally. If you are a creative trying to grow, build confidence and make better work, this episode is for you. Stay tuned for more Chaos & Creativity on Instagram. And remember, always act a little cooler than you feel. Visit Our Sponsor BlinkBid, Bidding & Producing Software for the Creative Industries

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Kieran Kerwin: The Creative Process Behind Electronic Music

In this episode, we talk all things music, DJ culture, and the creative process behind electronic music with rising DJ and producer Kieran Kerwin. Before the interview, Kimi shares exciting news from tour. She has officially joined a new band in France called Painmagazine, so be sure to check them out. Kieran is not only a talented electronic music producer and DJ, he also created the intro and outro music for our podcast. In this conversation, he takes us inside his creative process and explains how electronic music is built, from the first idea to the final track. Growing up listening to jazz, soul, funk, and reggae, Kieran pulls inspiration from a wide range of genres. He shares how those influences shape his sound and why the building blocks of music matter. Ultimately it is how you put those pieces together that makes a track unique. We also dive into how DJs and producers create electronic music, the creative mindset behind music production, and the many moving parts most people never see behind a track. We also talk about the evolution of the electronic music industry and whether the growing commercialization of electronic music is helping or hurting the space. If you are curious about how DJs make music, the creative process behind electronic music, or the future of the electronic music scene, this episode gives you an inside look into the mind of an up and coming DJ. Stay tuned for more Chaos & Creativity on Instagram. And remember, always act a little cooler than you feel. Visit Our Sponsor BlinkBid, Bidding & Producing Software for the Creative Industries

Organized Chaos: How Creatives Stay on Track

In this mini episode, Kimi and Lou talk about why staying organized is honestly one of the most important parts of being a creative professional. When you're juggling multiple projects, ideas, and deadlines, having some kind of system makes everything way more manageable. They share what’s actually worked for them over the years, from simple habits to tools that help them stay on track and not feel overwhelmed. Organization doesn’t make you less creative, it gives you the space to be more creative. Stay tuned for more Chaos & Creativity on Instagram. And remember, always act a little cooler than you feel. Visit Our Sponsor BlinkBid, Bidding & Producing Software for the Creative Industries

Michael Alan Ross: Porsche Outlaws

In this episode, we talk with Michael Alan Ross, photographer, author of Porsche Outlaws: Stuttgart Hot Rods, and longtime creative professional. Michael shares his journey from a 25-year career as a musician to becoming a respected photographer after landing a singing role in a Ford commercial that introduced him to photography. We explore the world of Porsche Outlaws, where Porsche models are customized through weight reduction, suspension upgrades, and performance enhancements to create personalized, high performance cars. Michael also dives into the creative process behind editorial photography, emphasizing storytelling, problem-solving under pressure, and the importance of lighting, timing, location, and logistics. Throughout the conversation, Michael highlights the value of adaptability, strong creative relationships, and how “luck” often comes from years of preparation and hard work. Stay tuned for more Chaos & Creativity on Instagram. And remember, always act a little cooler than you feel. Visit Our Sponsor BlinkBid, Bidding & Producing Software for the Creative Industries

More Chaos, More Creativity

We’re kicking off the new year with some exciting announcements and big things ahead for the Chaos & Creativity universe. This year, we’re thrilled to introduce a new podcast hosted by Sabrina Sarl. Mothers of Creativity spotlights women who make a living through their creative work while also navigating motherhood. Becoming a mom can change everything, and this series explores how creative women continue to pursue their passions. Sabrina brings such a thoughtful, honest perspective to these conversations, and she has some truly special interviews planned for 2026. We also share what’s next for Chaos & Creativity, so be sure to tune in to hear what’s coming and how the show is continuing to grow. Stay tuned for more Chaos & Creativity on Instagram. And remember, always act a little cooler than you feel! Visit Our Sponsor BlinkBid, Bidding & Producing Software for the Creative Industries

The 12 Days of Christmas, Creative Edition

We’ve made it to our last episode of the year and the season one finale. To close things out, Lou and Kimi are sharing 12 things they’ve been loving lately. These are things that have inspired them, helped them slow down, or simply made life a little better as creatives. This is our version of the 12 Days of Christmas. No endorsements, no sponsors. Just books, shows, tools, and ideas we genuinely enjoy. We’re talking about what we’re reading, watching, and adding into our lives as we head into a new year. Kimi’s Picks 1. Klara and the Sun 2. Deep Listening by Pauline Oliveros 3. Notion 4. Brick (screen time device) 5. Murder, She Wrote 6. Sisters with Transistors (2020 documentary) Lou’s Picks 1. WANDRD 2. Storyist 3. Scriptnotes 4. When Things Were Good: An Editor’s Adventures During the Last Golden Age of Magazines 5. Down Cemetery Road (Apple TV+) 6. Slow Horses (Apple TV+) Stay tuned for more Chaos & Creativity on Instagram. And remember, always act a little cooler than you feel! Visit Our Sponsor BlinkBid, Bidding & Producing Software for the Creative Industries