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Around the Circle | An Enneagram Podcast

Jeff Cook and T.J. Wilson

The Enneagram is a map of the human personality. It’s a tool for navigating relationships. It creates language for what motivates us and helps us look at the way we look at everything else. Most importantly the enneagram is a mirror; because sometimes you need help seeing yourself.

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31 episodes
Avg 1 hr 24 min
English

Episodes 31

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Tuesday · 2 hr 6 min
Twos | Stress and Security Panel
In this episode of Around the Circle, Jeff sits down with a panel of Enneagram Twos—Amy, Sarah, and Jennifer—for a candid conversation about how Twos experience the Head, Heart, and Body Centers. They talk about thinking through relationships, the deep drive toward connection, and the challenge of knowing when helping becomes overstepping: “Is this mine to do?” This time, the conversation moves into rejection, relational rupture, emotional intelligence, and the complicated relationship Twos can have with their own needs and bodies. The panel considers the Heart Center as a “bonding center”—an intelligence constantly tracking connection and the state of relationships. Lastly, they explore the Two’s movement toward Eight: the power and agency it can provide, but also the temptation toward control when vulnerability feels threatening. What does growth look like when a Two can care deeply for others without taking responsibility for everyone—and can trust that connection doesn’t have to be earned? #Enneagram #Enneagram2 #EnneagramTwo #PersonalGrowth #Relationships
Monday · 55 min
Happiness | "Atlas of the Heart" | Chapter 11
In this episode of Around the Circle, Jeff continues through Brené Brown’s Atlas of the Heart, looking at the places we go when life is good: joy, happiness, calm, contentment, gratitude, relief, and tranquility. Along the way, he asks a bigger philosophical question: What if these emotions don’t simply describe how we feel, but offer clues about what human beings are made for? This time, Jeff brings Brown into conversation with Aristotle, Socrates, Jesus, Aquinas, and C.S. Lewis, contrasting momentary pleasure with a much richer vision of happiness as human flourishing. Aristotle’s eudaimonia, Aquinas’s union with the highest good, and the Beatitudes all point toward happiness as something deeper than favorable circumstances. Lastly, we turn toward gratitude, foreboding joy, and tranquility—and the practices that help us build a life characterized by wisdom, moderation, virtue, and joy. What habits spiral us upward? And what if the best life isn’t simply one that feels good, but one in which our character truly flourishes? #AtlasOfTheHeart #BreneBrown #Enneagram #Happiness #AroundTheCircle
September 3 · 34 min
Scientific Enneagram | What Do We Mean by "Scientific Evidence"?
To Subscribe to The Scientific Enneagram ITUNES : HERE SPOTIFY : HERE Ep 3 | What Do We Actually Mean by Scientific Evidence? What does it actually mean when someone says the Enneagram is “scientifically validated” - or, on the flip side, that there’s “no evidence” for it at all? In this episode, we break down some of the basic building blocks of scientific evidence - observation, correlation, reliability, validity, replication, and predictive value - and apply them to common Enneagram claims. You’ll also hear why: Evidence for one part of a theory doesn't validate the whole system Reliability and validity are not the same thing Correlation does not automatically prove an Enneagram explanation “Supported,” “Plausible,” and “Speculative” are useful ways to think about different claims One study may be interesting, but it is not scientific consensus The goal isn't to prove or disprove the Enneagram as a whole, but to ask a better question: Which claims have earned which level of confidence? Find more at @scientificenneagram on Instagram.
September 1 · 1 hr 57 min
Threes | Stress and Security Panel
To be on a panel, sign up for a membership for opportunities : HERE Jilian's Enneagram work is at : jilianbrown.com Matilda and Rob Zombie is a much watch : HERE In this episode of Around the Circle, Jeff sits down with a panel of Enneagram Threes to explore what really happens in stress and security—and how Threes experience their head, heart, and body along the way. The conversation moves through achievement, shame, anger, identity, belonging, and the complicated relationship Threes can have with rest. What happens when the body has simply had enough? What does the move to Nine look like when it becomes withdrawal or numbing—and what changes when a Three intentionally steps off the stage, stops striving, and allows Nine to become a place of restoration and discernment? Lastly, the panel looks toward Six and the security found in community: being one of many instead of the person at the front, risking vulnerability without performing, and discovering the freedom to champion other people’s success. For Threes, growth may not mean accomplishing something better, but learning when to put down the oars, receive the support of others, and simply belong. #Enneagram #Enneagram3 #EnneagramThree #StressAndSecurity #PersonalGrowth
August 30 · 36 min
Love and Heartbreak | "Atlas of the Heart" | Chapter 10
Join us for our weekly online gathering : HERE In this episode of Around the Circle, Jeff continues through Brené Brown’s Atlas of the Heart, exploring the places we go when the heart is open: love, lovelessness, heartbreak, trust, betrayal, defensiveness, flooding, and hurt. This time, we’re asking what it actually means to open our hearts to another person. Why does love require vulnerability? How should we think about trust and boundaries? What makes something a betrayal? And what happens when different Enneagram types bring radically different strategies to conflict? Lastly, we turn toward heartbreak and hurt—and the courage required to simply say, “My feelings are hurt.” Opening our hearts always carries risk, but perhaps that vulnerability, paired with wisdom, is part of what makes deep relationship possible in the first place. #Enneagram #AtlasOfTheHeart #BreneBrown #Relationships #AroundTheCircle
August 27 · 4 hr 58 min
Celebrating Tim Curry | Our Complete Enneagram Discussion of "Clue"
For more deep dives into the Enneagram Types of Movie Characters : GO HERE _____ A few summers back, TJ Wilson, Kelly Cook, Daniel Mothershed, and Jeff walked through the Enneagram types of the characters in our favorite ensemble film, 1985’s Clue. At the head of the cast is the irreplaceable Tim Curry, who passed away yesterday after suffering a stroke in 2012. We’re reposting the full five-hour discussion here with joy and remembrance for a man who gave so much to so many millions.
August 26 · 8 min
Dolly Parton | Enneagram 9 * Tribute
For the Full Episode : GO HERE For the Movie Typing Podcast : GO HERE In this special episode of Around the Circle, Jeff and TJ revisit Dolly Parton through the lens of the Enneagram, asking whether one of America’s biggest personalities might actually be a Nine. From “Jolene” and “I Will Always Love You” to her extraordinary career and philanthropy, they explore a woman whose presence is enormous without seeming to demand attention for itself. Along the way, they look at Dolly’s collaborative spirit, the surprising passivity in some of her most famous songs, and the way she has repeatedly used her fame, money, and influence to build other people up. Could her tremendous ambition actually reflect the Nine’s movement toward Three—bringing her presence fully into the world while still pointing the attention somewhere else? A short conversation about Dolly Parton, the Enneagram, and what it looks like to become impossible to overlook without needing to be the center of attention. #Enneagram #DollyParton
August 25 · 1 hr 30 min
Fours | Stress and Security Panel
In this episode of Around the Circle, Jeff and TJ sit down with their biggest panel yet—six Enneagram Fours—to talk about stress, security, and what happens when Fours move toward Two and One. Along the way, the panel talks about how Fours experience their thoughts through story and emotion, what it means to feel understood, and why relationships and emotional connection matter so deeply. We spend a lot of time on the Four’s movement toward Two: the desire to help, fix, give, and restore connection—and how that can shift from empathy and generosity into overextending, losing touch with yourself, and trying desperately to get a relationship back into place. Lastly, we turn toward "competency," and ask : What if security for Fours isn’t something you feel before you act, but something you build by getting into your body, developing practical skills, and doing the work in front of you? Sometimes growth means honoring what you feel—and sometimes it means doing the thing anyway. #Enneagram #Enneagram4 #EnneagramFour #PersonalGrowth #AroundTheCircle
August 24 · 37 min
Belonging and Disconnection | "Atlas of the Heart" | Chapter 9
Join us for our weekly online gathering : HERE In this episode of Around the Circle, Jeff continues through Brené Brown’s Atlas of the Heart, exploring the places we go when we search for connection: belonging, fitting in, insecurity, invisibility, disconnection, and loneliness. This time, we're not just talking Enneagram, but Spiral Dynamics, and Aristotle’s three kinds of friendship—asking what separates relationships built around usefulness or pleasure from those rooted in genuine care for one another’s growth. This episode explores why authentic belonging requires both a strong relationship with ourselves and the vulnerability to be truly known by others. Lastly, it turns toward loneliness and the importance of investing not simply in more relationships, but in a few relationships of real depth: people who see us, know us, challenge us, and genuinely care about who we are becoming.
August 20 · 1 hr 18 min
A Scientist and a Philosopher III | Quality Enneagram Knowledge?
Dr Sam E Greenberg and Prof Jeff Cook take to the mics again, this time to talk about high quality Enneagram study: where’s the best work being done, what counts as knowledge, and do those learning about Enneagram have access? They spend the first 30 minutes talking about broad issues in epistemology and contemporary media, but pivot to Enneagram world and work through the needs and discoveries of our community.
August 16 · 59 min
Fresh Thoughts on Spiral Dynamics and The Enneagram
This episode introduces Spiral Dynamics as a framework for understanding human maturity, the values that shape us, and the predictable transitions we experience throughout life. Jeff connects Spiral Dynamics with the Enneagram, asking how our stage of development influences what we seek from the Enneagram, how we understand our type, and ultimately what we believe the Enneagram is for.
August 13 · 1 hr 40 min
In Conversation with 5s, 6s & 7s | An Enneagram Coach Series
Join us September 12 for our discussion with 891s by signing up for a membership : HERE Try or Share the Start Here Podcast : iTunes or Spotify ____ What do Enneagram Fives, Sixes, and Sevens actually share? In this Second Saturday workshop, we sit down with three Enneagram coaches to explore the Head Types—moving beyond stereotypes and returning to some of the basics that aren't so basic : featuring Kristin Messegee (6), Jackie Brewster (7), and Nadia Rae Brackett (5). We talk fear versus anxiety, the search for safety and certainty, our relationship with thinking, the emotional lives of the Head Types, and what it means to become more present to ourselves. Along the way, we explore how Fives, Sixes, and Sevens can be reaching for something similar while using remarkably different strategies to get there. #Enneagram #Enneagram5 #Enneagram6 #Enneagram7 #AroundTheCircle
August 11 · 1 hr 38 min
Enneagram Misconceptions | The Morning Show
What if some of the most familiar Enneagram descriptions are actually getting in the way? In this episode of The Morning Show, Jeff, TJ, Jackie, and Kristin take aim at the stereotypes that flatten the nine types into easy labels: Eights are challengers, Nines are peaceful, Ones are perfectionists, Twos are helpers, Sevens are happy, and Sixes are afraid. Which stereotypes contain a piece of truth—and which fundamentally misunderstand the type? The crew digs beneath behavior to motivation, exploring why archetypes can be useful, why labels can be misleading, and how popular Enneagram language may actually contribute to mistyping. It’s a lively, occasionally combative attempt to move beyond the memes and recover something deeper. #Enneagram #EnneagramTypes #Personality #SelfAwareness #AroundTheCircle
August 9 · 38 min
Shame and Guilt | "Atlas of the Heart" | Chapter 8
JOIN US ON TUESDAY NIGHTS : HERE What happens when falling short becomes a verdict about who we are? In this episode of the Reading Room, Jeff continues through Brené Brown’s Atlas of the Heart, exploring shame, guilt, humiliation, embarrassment, perfectionism, and self-compassion. We look at Brown’s distinction between “I did something bad” and “I am bad,” why empathy can disrupt shame, and how perfectionism can turn achievement into a measure of our worth. The conversation also pushes into Enneagram territory: Do different types experience shame differently? When does healthy striving become perfectionism? And if we are not what we accomplish, where should we locate our value? A conversation about failure, empathy, connection, achievement, and learning to make room for being imperfect. #Enneagram #BreneBrown #AtlasOfTheHeart #Perfectionism #Shame
August 6 · 1 hr 17 min
Boundaries and Empathy | A Discussion of "Atlas of the Heart" Chapter 7
Join us on Tuesdays : HERE What does it actually mean to empathize with someone? And how is that different from compassion? In this Reading Room discussion on Brené Brown's Atlas of the Heart, we explore empathy, compassion, boundaries, and the Enneagram. Together, we wrestle with why some of us instinctively fix, others merge, and others withdraw—and how each type can grow in learning to truly be present with another person's suffering. #Enneagram #BreneBrown #Empathy #Compassion #ReadingRoom
August 3 · 36 min
Empathy and Compassion | "Atlas of the Heart" | Chapter 7
Join us on Tuesdays : HERE Empathy is harder than we think. In this episode of Reading Room, Jeff continues through Chapter 7 of Brené Brown's Atlas of the Heart, exploring the emotional landscape of compassion, empathy, pity, sympathy, boundaries, and comparative suffering. Along the way, Jeff connects Brown's research with Aristotle, Wittgenstein, Buddhist thought, and the Enneagram, asking what it actually means to accompany another person in pain without trying to fix, rescue, or distance ourselves from them. The conversation explores why empathy is a skill rather than an instinct, why compassion requires both courage and restraint, how pity and sympathy quietly undermine connection, and why healthy boundaries are an essential part of loving others well. Jeff also reflects personally on how these themes challenge him as an Enneagram One and considers whether genuine maturity requires moving from individual achievement toward shared human experience. Join us for the live Reading Room discussion each Tuesday at AroundtheCircle.org #AtlasOfTheHeart #BreneBrown #Empathy #Compassion #Enneagram
July 30 · 1 hr 14 min
When Your Body Stops Cooperating | Brenden Wynn (6)
Jeff Cook and TJ Wilson are joined by Brendan, an Enneagram Six living with chronic pancreatitis, chronic pain, PTSD, and life after a total pancreatectomy. Alongside TJ's experience with fibromyalgia, they explore how chronic illness interacts with Enneagram type, revealing why two people facing similar pain can respond in profoundly different ways. Together they discuss the invisible burden of chronic illness, the struggle to be believed by doctors and loved ones, how different personality types advocate for themselves (or don't), and why pain so often compounds our deepest patterns of fear, responsibility, identity, and control. The conversation also explores work, marriage, shame, recovery, grief, and the difficult process of accepting a "new normal" when life cannot return to what it once was. Along the way, they offer hope through meaningful connection, mindfulness, movement, and the possibility that understanding ourselves can help us navigate suffering with greater compassion. Connect with us at aroundthecircle.org #Enneagram #ChronicIllness #ChronicPain #MentalHealth
July 28 · 1 hr 5 min
"Unwanted Identity" | The Morning Show | Part II
"It's important that I'm not perceived as..." The answers uncover the hidden identities each type works to protect—from the Four's fear of being ordinary or misunderstood, to the Three's struggle with competence and authenticity, the Two's desire to remain indispensable and easy to love, and the One's deep concern with integrity, intention, and being seen as fundamentally good. We are wrapping up our dive into the experiences of shame for 4s, 3s, 2s, and 1s. #Enneagram #Shame #BreneBrown #SelfAwareness #PersonalGrowth
July 26 · 43 min
Hope and Grief | "Atlas of the Heart" | Chapter 6
Connect with us: HERE _______ Hope. Courage. Grief. Longing. Continuing through Brené Brown's Atlas of the Heart, Jeff explores what happens when suffering changes not just how we feel, but how we imagine the future. Why does despair convince us tomorrow will look exactly like today? Why is being unseen in our suffering one of the loneliest human experiences? And why does returning to our center matter so much when life becomes disorienting? At the heart of the discussion is a simple conviction: hope is not naïve optimism. It is the fuel that gives courage something to run on—and perhaps the beginning of every meaningful recovery.
July 23 · 1 hr 5 min
Enneagram and the Shape of Our Sex Lives | Dr. Sam E Greenberg (5) and Lyndsey Fraser LMFT (9)
Sex is rarely just about sex. In this conversation, Jeff sits down with sexuality researcher Dr. Sam Greenberg and certified sex therapist Lyndsey Fraser to explore how the Enneagram shapes intimacy, desire, communication, and long-term relationships. Moving beyond stereotypes, they discuss why so many couples struggle with mismatched desire, why "low desire" is often something else entirely, and how each Enneagram type approaches vulnerability, attraction, and connection in distinctive ways. The episode takes a deep dive into two common pairings—Eight/Nine and Four/Six—examining the ways these couples pursue intimacy, avoid rejection, communicate desire, and unknowingly frustrate one another. Along the way, they explore the roles of trust, shame, healthy sexual development, gender expectations, instincts, and why understanding motive can transform the way partners experience one another. Rather than offering one-size-fits-all advice, this conversation argues that healthy sexuality begins with self-awareness. The Enneagram becomes more than a personality system—it becomes a language for expressing desire, understanding your partner, and discovering what intimacy actually asks of us. Connect with Sam HERE and Lyndsey HERE Comment on the episode HERE Our Prior Episdoes on Sex and Enneagram are Here and Here.

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