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With and For hosted by Dr. Pam King

Dr. Pam King

With & For bridges psychology and spiritual wisdom to help you thrive. Hosted by developmental psychologist and ordained minister Dr. Pam King.

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Yesterday · 1 hr 11 min
Best of Identity with Mary Helen Immordino Yang
I is for Identity & Narrative. A helpful way to think about your identity is as an evolving story of your life, that incorporates who you are, to whom you belong, and your life experiences. Whether you are spiritual or religious– or somewhere in between – it’s important to consider what bigger stories your life is a part of. Neuroscientist Dr. Mary Helen Immordino-Yang discusses how we develop these narratives. This re-aired episode is part of our Best of With & For series. With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenterFollow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. Help us grow by taking our survey. About With & ForHost: Pam KingSenior Director and Producer: Jill WestbrookOperations Manager: Lauren KimSocial Media & Graphic Designer: Wren JuergensenSenior Producer: Clare WileyExecutive Producer: Jakob LewisProduced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
September 28 · 1 hr 6 min
Best of Relationships with Sue Johnson & Jim Furrow
R is for Relationships & Community. Spirituality and faith have as much to do with our human relationships as with our relationship with the divine. We are essentially relational beings. In an era when a lot of people are renegotiating their faith and how they engage religion or spirituality–this one is often overlooked. But to be spiritually healthy–we need others. The late, great relationship expert and therapist Dr. Sue Johnson joined Dr. King along with Dr. Jim Furrow to discuss the science of relationships. This re-aired episode is part of our Best of With & For series. With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenterFollow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. Help us grow by taking our survey. About With & ForHost: Pam KingSenior Director and Producer: Jill WestbrookOperations Manager: Lauren KimSocial Media & Graphic Designer: Wren JuergensenSenior Producer: Clare WileyExecutive Producer: Jakob LewisProduced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
September 14 · 1 hr 9 min
Best of Habits with Richie Davidson
H is for Habits & Rhythms. Healthy spirituality involves spiritual habits or practices. It also involves regular rhythms–of rest, celebration, work, connection. Dr. Richie Davidson, a Buddhist and leading mindfulness researcher offers meditations as well as scientific insight into how we can train our minds for spiritual practices. This re-aired episode is part of our Best of With & For series. With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenterFollow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. Help us grow by taking our survey. About With & ForHost: Pam KingSenior Director and Producer: Jill WestbrookOperations Manager: Lauren KimSocial Media & Graphic Designer: Wren JuergensenSenior Producer: Clare WileyExecutive Producer: Jakob LewisProduced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
August 31 · 1 hr 8 min
Best of Transcendence with Lisa Miller
T is for Transcendence. The research shows that an understanding of a loving or benevolent source - something bigger than we are – gives us meaning and offers us greater purpose. Dr. Lisa Miller is one of the leading researchers on spirituality and mental health–and shares her insight into how transcendence impacts us as human beings. This re-aired episode is part of our Best of With & For series. With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenterFollow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. Help us grow by taking our survey. About With & ForHost: Pam KingSenior Director and Producer: Jill WestbrookOperations Manager: Lauren KimSocial Media & Graphic Designer: Wren JuergensenSenior Producer: Clare WileyExecutive Producer: Jakob LewisProduced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
August 24 · 7 min
What is spiritual health? The Best of With & For
Introducing our Best Of series, taking a look back at some of our most popular and wisdom-packed episodes from previous seasons. Thriving is relational: it involves growing in deeper and more authentic connections with others, with our deepest values, with God or our sense of the sacred, and with ourselves. Dr. King’s research points to the paramount role of spirituality and faith in this journey. With the team at the Thrive Center at Fuller Seminary, Dr. King has identified six research-backed and interconnected facets of spiritual health and organized them into a framework using the acronym THRIVE. And in the upcoming weeks, we’re going to dive into each facet, and re-air a Best Of episode from an expert – including insights from rock star developmental neuroscientist Mary Helen Immordino-Yang and psychologist Richie Davidson. With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenterFollow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. Help us grow by taking our survey. About With & ForHost: Pam KingSenior Director and Producer: Jill WestbrookOperations Manager: Lauren KimSocial Media & Graphic Designer: Wren JuergensenSenior Producer: Clare WileyExecutive Producer: Jakob LewisProduced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
August 10 · 15 min
Learn how to really listen, with Parker Palmer
Creating space for others to be heard—for their stories, concerns, and dreams to unfold—is such a gift. With the best of intentions, we often jump in with advice or our own perspectives, not realizing that we may be crowding the very space another person needs. In this practice episode, Parker will introduce us to his Circle of Trust model, which has been at the heart of his transformative work with individuals and communities. Afterwards, Pam guides you through a modified version of the practice—one designed to help you listen more deeply to the people in your life. It's based on Circles of Trust, which is spelled out in his powerful book, A Hidden Wholeness and also his Touchstones for courage and renewal. The research bears out--experiencing love--which involves being heard, is absolutely essential for thriving. Parker Palmer is an activist and author who has written 10 incredibly influential books – including Let Your Life Speak. And he founded the Center for Courage & Renewal, which supports leadership, vocation, and community formation. If you have not listened to the full episode, make sure you listen. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-gift-of-deep-listening-with-parker-j-palmer/id1712333330?i=1000747679111 With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenterFollow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. About With & ForHost: Pam KingSenior Director and Producer: Jill WestbrookOperations Manager: Lauren KimSocial Media & Graphic Designer: Wren JuergensenSenior Producer: Clare WileyExecutive Producer: Jakob LewisProduced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
August 3 · 10 min
Love others better, with Nicholas Ma
One of the core aspects of thriving is living out love. But this isn’t easy – it takes commitment and intention. So today we have a practice to help you lean into reciprocating love. Inspired by the With & For interview with award-winning film director Nicholas Ma, this practice takes loving kindness into the real world. With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenterFollow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. About With & ForHost: Pam KingSenior Director and Producer: Jill WestbrookOperations Manager: Lauren KimSocial Media & Graphic Designer: Wren JuergensenSenior Producer: Clare WileyExecutive Producer: Jakob LewisProduced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
July 27 · 14 min
Get really honest, with Elizabeth Oldfield
True vulnerability is a critical first step towards becoming fully alive. But it can be incredibly confronting to know how to get really honest with yourself. In this episode we have a practice centred around consolations and desolations, inviting you to review your day and answer honestly: when was I moving towards connection, and when was I moving away? Elizabeth Oldfield is a writer, coach and host of the podcast The Sacred, who has dedicated her work to exploring clarity, courage and most of all, connection. Join Pam on Substack, where we’ll be sharing and asking you: where did you turn towards connection this week? Links and resources About Elizabeth Oldfield The Sacred podcast Fully Alive: Tending to the Soul in Turbulent Times book Fully Alive, Elizabeth’s Substack With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenterFollow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. About With & ForHost: Pam KingSenior Director and Producer: Jill WestbrookOperations Manager: Lauren KimSocial Media & Graphic Designer: Wren JuergensenSenior Producer: Clare WileyExecutive Producer: Jakob LewisProduced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
July 20 · 9 min
Replace judgment with kindness, with Dr. Brad Strawn
In this divided moment, we are being actively encouraged to make enemies of one another. To resist these forces, we need to cultivate kindness. Loving kindness is a simple but powerful evidenced-backed practice that helps us hold our own views and values, yet still honor the perspectives of others… even those with whom we disagree. Leading us through this practice is Dr. Brad Strawn, licensed psychologist, ordained minister and one of the leading figures in the integration of psychology and Christian theology in the US. Don’t miss my full interview with Dr. Strawn. Here today we have a simple practice that takes 5 minutes and you can practice any time you need to ground yourself and foster a sense of compassion with others. And you can count on it to change your brain. Come on over to my Substack this week, With & For by Dr. Pam King, where I'm asking you to share a surprising moment that you experienced unexpected kindness from a stranger or even someone you were at odds with. With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenterFollow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. About With & ForHost: Pam KingSenior Director and Producer: Jill WestbrookOperations Manager: Lauren KimSocial Media & Graphic Designer: Wren JuergensenSenior Producer: Clare WileyExecutive Producer: Jakob LewisProduced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
July 13 · 17 min
Find clarity, with Bonnie Wan
Understanding our deepest sense of purpose in the context of our many roles and personal goals can be really hard. The demands of life can make it difficult to discern the biggest aim of your life. So how to get going? Today, we have a pair of practices that act as your first step in orienting towards your inner desires. Bonnie Wan is going to guide us through two exercises to help you tune into your inner compass. For ten minutes every day for two weeks, Bonnie invites you to get messy by journalling on three powerful prompts: If you gave yourself permission, what would the best case scenario look like? What is sacred or non-negotiable to you? What is holding you back? Bonnie Wan is a strategist, bestselling author, and creator of The Life Brief: A Playbook for No Regrets Living. Make sure you listen to our full interview with Bonnie. And join me on Substack to read how getting messy has helped me – and I invite you to share your own reflections. With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenterFollow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. About With & ForHost: Pam KingSenior Director and Producer: Jill WestbrookOperations Manager: Lauren KimSocial Media & Graphic Designer: Wren JuergensenSenior Producer: Clare WileyExecutive Producer: Jakob LewisProduced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
July 6 · 11 min
Take a self-compassion break, with Dr. Kristin Neff
Self-compassion goes much deeper than self-care. It’s an invitation to reorient the way you live your life through love. Self-compassion then enables us to connect to the rest of humanity. That's one of the main pieces of wisdom that we took away from our conversation with Dr. Kristin Neff, a pioneer in the research of self-compassion, and was the first guest on the recent season of With and For. In this practice episode, Kristin will lead you through her self-compassion break. It's a simple but powerful five-minute exercise that invites you to consider something you're struggling with, and then to respond to yourself with kindness. Join me on my Substack, where I’ll be discussing my own self-compassion journey, and invite you to share yours. This is the first episode in our special summer series of wisdom practices: short exercises that will become your toolkit for thriving. Consider them your experiment in becoming more fully alive. With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenterFollow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. About With & ForHost: Pam KingSenior Director and Producer: Jill WestbrookOperations Manager: Lauren KimSocial Media & Graphic Designer: Wren JuergensenSenior Producer: Clare WileyExecutive Producer: Jakob LewisProduced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
June 29 · 2 min
What If Thriving Is Something We Practice?
At the Thrive Center, we know from research that developing the psychological capacities that we need to thrive, and the clarity about who we are and who we belong to, actually takes practice. These skills and direction just don't come out of nowhere. So to help you on that journey, we've created a special series of wisdom practices. These are short episodes that will guide you through a specific practice or exercise, like Brad Strawn’s loving-kindness reflection, Kristin Neff's self-compassion break, and Parker Palmer's listening circles. This summer I invite you to engage in this short series of With & For practices, over the course of six weeks. Consider it your summer experiment in becoming more fully alive. What's more, I'll be right there with you doing these practices at the same time. I've started a Substack to share my own experiences, and I'll also be inviting you to contribute your thoughts through a series of prompts. I'm really looking forward to going on this journey with you. –Dr. Pam King With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenterFollow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. About With & For Host: Pam King Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook Operations Manager: Lauren Kim Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen Senior Producer: Clare Wiley Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis Produced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
June 15 · 25 min
What Does It Mean to Thrive? Dr. Pam King Reflects on Season 3
What it means to live a flourishing life has been one of the most animating questions of my career, and the brilliant, complex, nuanced conversations I had this season convinced me more than than ever: we are absolutely dependent on the world around us, on our friendships, our families, our communities, for all of us to become more fully alive. Our extraordinary guests on this season of With & For offered a powerful blueprint on how to thrive. In this episode, I reflect on some of the most powerful lessons, invitations and insights of this past season. Thank you so much for lending us your ears and your time this season. –Dr. Pam King With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. About With & For Host: Pam King Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook Operations Manager: Lauren Kim Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen Senior Producer: Clare Wiley Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis Produced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
June 8 · 51 min
Faith and doubt, with Drs. Miroslav Volf and Christian Wiman
Poet Christian Wiman and theologian Miroslav Volf wrote each other letters in which they wrestled honestly with the big questions: what does it mean to love God? What is faith? Letter writing deepened the friendship between these two intellectuals as they wrestled with their questions about faith and the nature of God. The longings they discuss speak to our deepest needs for transcendence and connection. If we’re going to transcend muffled lives and cut through the noise, we need a sharp, almost brutal honesty. These letters were published in Glimmerings: Letters on Faith Between a Poet and a Theologian. The book is named after a Seamus Heaney line: “glimmerings are what the soul’s composed of”. Miroslav Volf is a Croatian-American theologian Miroslav Volf is the Henry B. Wright Professor of Theology at Yale Divinity School and founder and director of the Yale Center for Faith and Culture. Christian Wiman is a poet, translator, and essayist from West Texas. He served as editor of Poetry magazine from 2003 to 2013. Discussed in this episode: Jewish theologian Abraham Joshua Heschel Veni Creator by Czesław Miłosz Zero at the Bone by Christian Wiman With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org. Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. About With & For Host: Pam King Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook Operations Manager: Lauren Kim Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen Senior Producer: Clare Wiley Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis Produced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
June 1 · 47 min
Designing a meaningful life, with Dave Evans
The first step in finding meaning and purpose in our lives is radical acceptance of the present moment. Dave Evans is the co-founder of the Life Design Lab at Stanford, which applies principles of design thinking to our lives. Dave and his co-founder Bill Burnett wrote the hugely popular 2016 bestseller Designing Your Life. Their new book out this year is How to Live a Meaningful Life: Using Design Thinking to Unlock Purpose, Joy, and Flow Everyday. After listening to this episode, you’ll know the three barriers that get in the way of meaning making. You’ll be armed with simple yet powerful practices to savor the here and now, and you’ll learn how to step your gratitude exercise up a notch. Dave holds a BS and MS in Mechanical Engineering from Stanford and a graduate diploma in Contemplative Spirituality from San Francisco Theological Seminary. He is Lecturer on the Product Design Program at Stanford, Management Consultant, and co-founder of Electronic Arts. Mentioned in this episode: Falling Upward by Richard Rohr Spem in Alium Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor E. Frankl With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenterFollow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. About With & For Host: Pam King Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook Operations Manager: Lauren Kim Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen Senior Producer: Clare Wiley Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis Produced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
May 25 · 50 min
How to belong – not conform, with Dr. Todd Rose
Researcher and author Dr. Todd Rose has one of the most unusual journeys of any academic. Todd dropped out of high school, became a father at a young age, and went on welfare to support his family. Recognizing his own distinctive talents changed everything for Todd. He realized that humans are not cookie cutters: we have unique gifts, but that is not the same as individualism. We are fundamentally connected to one another. Todd went on to get a masters and doctorate from Harvard, before co-founding Populace, a thinktank which aims to research and understand individuality so people can live fulfilling lives. In this conversation, Todd talks about our deep yearning to belong – but also the dangers of assuming we know what the group thinks, and the perils of conforming. He also explains why we’re in an epidemic of resentment – and what you can do about it in your own life. Todd’s books: The End of Average: How We Succeed in a World That Values Sameness 2016 Dark Horse: Achieving Success Through the Pursuit of Fulfillment 2018 Collective Illusions: Conformity, Complicity, and the Science of Why We Make Bad Decisions 2022 With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org. Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. About With & For Host: Pam King Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook Operations Manager: Lauren Kim Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen Senior Producer: Clare Wiley Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis Produced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
May 18 · 51 min
Lessons from the farm, with Jeff Chu
When Jeff Chu turned up to work as a farmhand, he didn’t know anything about gardening. He says he actually had more experience killing plants than nurturing them. But this wasn’t just any farm: this was the Farminary, a 21-acre experiment in sustainable agriculture that’s part of Princeton Theological Seminary. Jeff calls it the world’s best classroom. Writer, reporter, preacher and teacher Jeff Chu went on to write Good Soil: The Education of an Accidental Farmhand, a memoir of his season at the Farminary. In today’s conversation, he shared some of the gems of wisdom that he gleaned from his time there. He shared what we can learn about life and death from the compost pile; how to move through grief; and why belonging isn’t something we’re entitled to. It’s something we create for each other that requires the hard work of intimacy and vulnerability. Jeff is teacher in residence at Crosspointe Church in North Carolina; parish associate for storytelling and witness at the First Presbyterian Church of Berkeley in California. He’s also a Ph.D. student in theology at the University of Stellenbosch, a Minister of Word and sacrament in the Reformed Church in America and author of Does Jesus Really Love Me?: A Gay Christian’s Pilgrimage in Search of God in America and co-author, with the late Rachel Held Evans, of the New York Times best-seller Wholehearted Faith. With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org. Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. About With & For Host: Pam King Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook Operations Manager: Lauren Kim Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen Senior Producer: Clare Wiley Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis Produced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
May 11 · 48 min
Becoming fully alive, with Drs. Christin Fort and Brad Strawn
What parts of yourself need more attention? What would it mean for those parts to be given space? Today’s conversation dives deep into these questions, leading to a conversation on what it means to be fully alive – and the individual and systemic obstacles that can get in the way of thriving. Brad and Christin spoke openly about how they confront issues of power and privilege. And they also shared their wisdom on what it really means to bring spirituality into the therapist’s office; and how we can reframe unhealthy experiences of spirituality and religion. Dr. Brad Strawn is a licensed psychologist, ordained minister, and one of the leading figures in the integration of psychology and Christian theology in the U.S. He is the Evelyn and Frank Freed Chief of Spiritual Formation and Integration, Dean of the Chapel, and Professor of Clinical Psychology at the Fuller Graduate School of Psychology. His latest book is The Integrative Mindset: Pathways to Practicing as a Christian Clinician Dr. Christin Fort is a therapist and Associate Professor of Clinical Psychology at Fuller Theological Seminary who specializes in the integration of clinical psychology and biblical theology. Her scholarship, research, teaching, preaching, and clinical practice lie at the intersections of faith, race, emotional health, and relational well-being. With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org. Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. About With & For Host: Pam King Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook Operations Manager: Lauren Kim Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen Senior Producer: Clare Wiley Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis Produced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
May 4 · 47 min
The messy path to purpose, with Bonnie Wan
When it comes to thriving, listening to our inner compass is crucial. Living out our purpose alongside others can only really happen when we use the tool of discernment. But that can often feel kind of daunting. It’s hard to know where to begin. Bonnie Wan has developed a three-step process for tuning into our true desires – and then putting them into action. Bonnie Wan is a strategist, bestselling author and creator of The Life Brief: A Playbook for No-Regrets Living. She took the idea of a brief from her marketing campaigns, and repurposed it for our creative and spiritual lives. Bonnie shares her challenging experience writing her own life brief – and the surprising path it led her down. Bonnie walks us through how to apply the life brief to a big decision, which begins with allowing our human messiness to come to the surface. And more often than not, living out our purpose is relational. Bonnie has over 30 years of experience guiding major companies. At advertising agency Goodby Silverstein & Partners, Bonnie has led strategy for BMW, Comcast/Xfinity, Frito-Lay, HP, Kraft-Heinz, and PepsiCo. She also led award-winning campaigns fighting racial injustice, child sex trafficking, cyberbullying, college campus rape, and gender inequality. With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org. Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. About With & For Host: Pam King Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook Operations Manager: Lauren Kim Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen Senior Producer: Clare Wiley Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis Produced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
April 27 · 44 min
How to fight loneliness, with Dr. Natalie Kerr and Dr. Jaime Kurtz
Help us plan season 4. We want to hear from you. Take our survey now! https://forms.gle/doQYx73hoPU2tRdC7 Social connection is critical for our wellbeing – it’s as important as shelter and food. Combating loneliness can feel risky sometimes - especially if it means reaching out to a stranger. We might fear awkwardness or even rejection. But it’s worth it. Dr. Natalie Kerr and Dr. Jaime Kurtz are psychologists and professors at James Madison University. Together their work focuses on social connection and how modern life shapes our relationships. Their new book is Our New Social Life: Science-Backed Strategies for Creating Meaningful Connection. Natalie and Jamie discuss some of the barriers to making connections that we need to watch out for. And they share those all-important practical tools to deepen our relationships and combat loneliness. We also talk about how our spiritual lives can make us feel more connected – even when we’re alone. Resources Seven Barriers to Building More Meaningful Connection Interview with John Cacioppo on loneliness How to Build Bonds with Others Creating Meaningful Connections With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org. Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. About With & For Host: Dr. Pam King Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook Operations Manager: Lauren Kim Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen Senior Producer: Clare Wiley Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis Produced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.

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