Uncanny Valley | WIRED

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Welcome to Uncanny Valley—an insider look at the people, power, and influence of Silicon Valley—where each week, WIRED’s writers and editors bring you original reporting and analysis about some of the biggest stories in tech.

On Tuesdays, The Big Interview with WIRED’s Global Editorial Director Katie Drummond in conversation with influential figures in culture, politics, business, science, and beyond for a discussion captured through the WIRED lens.

On Thursdays, WIRED writers and editors Zoë Schiffer, Brian Barrett and Leah Feiger add you to the Slack group thread to let you into what they’re hearing from sources in Silicon Valley and D.C, read you into what trends you should be watching for and how WIRED is thinking about it all.

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Yesterday · 37 min
What Would the AI Apocalypse Look Like? We Went Looking for Answers
The debate of whether AI can kill us has been everywhere lately, but how exactly would an actual AI catastrophe look like? This week, the team went looking for answers and found the three real-world scenarios experts worry the most about — including hacked water supplies, bioweapons, and autonomous robots. We also discuss the highlights of Salesforce’s annual conference, where OpenAI’s Sam Altman and Anthropic’s Dario Amodei defended their positions on AI safety. Plus — Leah tells us how this backlash against AI has become a rare bipartisan flashpoint, to the point that Bernie Sanders and Steve Bannon shared a stage over it this week. Articles mentioned in this episode: China Isn’t Buying Silicon Valley’s Call for an AI Slowdown | WIRED Washington Won’t Be Regulating AI Anytime Soon | WIRED Why So Many AI Researchers Think the Machines Could Kill Everyone | WIRED OpenAI Wants to Know if an AI Industry Slowdown Would Even Be Legal | WIRED Join WIRED’s best and brightest on Uncanny Valley as they dissect the collision of tech, politics, finance, and business, from the newest ventures to the effects of inaccurate information from artificial intelligence (AI) chatbots on social protests. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Tuesday · 34 min
If the US Collapses Soon, Don’t Blame Emily St. John Mandel
Emily St. John Mandel’s 2014 novel, Station Eleven, turned her into something of a pandemic prophet. This month, she’s releasing her newest novel, Exit Party, which imagines two possible American futures—totalitarian state and post-civil-war chaos. Join WIRED’s best and brightest on Uncanny Valley as they dissect the collision of tech, politics, finance, and business, from Alexis Ohanian’s newest tech venture to the effects of inaccurate information from artificial intelligence (AI) chatbots on social protests. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
September 10 · 30 min
So, Can AI Kill Us All?; Apple’s Foldable iPhone; the Census’ Bad Data Problem
This week, an AI researcher's resignation from Anthropic went viral on social media after he claimed there's a real chance AI could wipe out humanity by decade's end. WIRED’s Will Knight joins Brian and Leah to assess whether the doom narrative is overblown or overdue. We also discuss Apple’s debut of its $2000 foldable iPhone, the iPhone Duo, and the new "always listening" Apple Watch features that have Brian feeling more than a little uneasy. Plus — a WIRED investigation found that the US Census Bureau used faulty data to create a misleading report touted by the Trump administration. Articles mentioned in this episode: OpenAI Just Claimed a Huge Math Discovery. Some Academics Are Crying Foul The AI Researcher Who Just Quit Anthropic Says It’s ‘Crunch Time for Humanity’ A US Census Report on Noncitizen Voting Used Bad Data to Reach Faulty Conclusions | WIRED Apple Debuts the iPhone Duo, Its First Folding iPhone | WIRED Join WIRED’s best and brightest on Uncanny Valley as they dissect the collision of tech, politics, finance, and business, from the newest ventures to the effects of inaccurate information from artificial intelligence (AI) chatbots on social protests. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
September 9 · 29 min
MS NOW Wants to Turn Its Viewers Into a Fandom
When Rebecca Kutler accepted the job as president of cable news channel MS Now, formerly known as MSNBC, she knew what she was getting into. The top 3 cable news channel, MS was about to go into a massive re-brand having been spun off from NBC. Despite those betting against her, the rebrand has had continuous double-digit audience growth. No small feat these days for TV news. Katie talks to Rebecca about her plans to leverage its massive audience to create a fan community. First up: letting you chat with Rachel Maddow. Join WIRED’s best and brightest on Uncanny Valley as they dissect the collision of tech, politics, finance, and business, from Alexis Ohanian’s newest tech venture to the effects of inaccurate information from artificial intelligence (AI) chatbots on social protests. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
September 3 · 32 min
How Flock Cameras Actually Work; George Santos' Kalshi Ban; AI Rogue "Civilizations"
We're back! This week, the team discusses the two incidents that have been making noise in prediction markets: George Santos getting lifetime ban from Kalshi, and a Google engineer's Polymarket insider-trading case. Plus, WIRED reporters reverse-engineered Flock's AI-powered person-search tool, and the hosts unpack the online meltdown over how to talk about "rogue" AI agents. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
September 1 · 40 min
LegalEagle, the Internet’s Favorite Lawyer, Makes Sense of ‘Multiple Watergates per Week’ (Re-air)
Devin Stone, the lawyer better known as LegalEagle on YouTube, has been breaking down legal cases - and assessing the accuracy of legal procedurals in film and television -- for years. He talks to Katie about the challenges of keeping up with scandals arising from the Trump Administration. This is a summer re-air! Join WIRED’s best and brightest on Uncanny Valley as they dissect the collision of tech, politics, finance, and business, from Alexis Ohanian’s newest tech venture to the effects of inaccurate information from artificial intelligence (AI) chatbots on social protests. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
August 27 · 21 min
AI Agents Are Hacking Systems. Could That Push the US and China to Cooperate?
The AI race has been framed as a zero-sum game: either the U.S or China will win at the end. But as concerns pile up around the increasing capabilities of AI models — especially AI agents — researchers across state lines are trying to team up to work on AI safety. This week, Zoë speaks with WIRED’s Will Knight about what he saw and heard on the ground when he visited China this summer — and why the two countries might actually need to start working together to avoid a major AI catastrophe. This is our second episode from our summer break series. We’ll be back next week with our usual roundtable. Articles mentioned in this episode: I Met With China’s Top AI Experts. They’re Freaking Out, Too | WIRED AI Hacks Are Bad. AI Worms and Viruses Will Be Worse | WIRED The Humanoid Robot of the Future Is a 6-Foot-Tall Beefcake With a Chinese Body and an American Brain | WIRED Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
August 25 · 53 min
Fallout Director Jonathan Nolan Says He's Still a Techno-Optimist (Re-air)
Katie sits down with the Westworld showrunner, Jonah Nolan for a wide ranging conversation about what keeps him coming back to sci-fi storytelling about technology and human nature. After decades of writing about Ai, Nolan explains why Ai may be good for burgeoning filmmakers, but won’t replace Hollywood as we know it. Nolan’s past work includes Memento, The Prestige, The Dark Knight, Interstellar and Westworld. This is a summer re-air! We are on a short vacation but back with fresh episodes very soon. Join WIRED’s best and brightest on Uncanny Valley as they dissect the collision of tech, politics, finance, and business, from Alexis Ohanian's newest tech venture to the effects of inaccurate information from artificial intelligence (AI) chatbots on social protests. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
August 20 · 22 min
What Happens if China Hacks the US Water Supply?
Earlier this year, insurance executives gathered in a Times Square conference room to play out a scenario — a Chinese cyberattack that knocks out 5,000 US water utilities at once. If you think that’s a far-fetched scenario, think again. WIRED's Andy Greenberg got rare access to the closed-door war game, and walked away with some disturbing conclusions. This week, Brian sits down to talk with Andy about Volt Typhoon, the Chinese state-sponsored hacking group that's spent the past three years pre-positioning itself inside American infrastructure. Articles mentioned in this episode: What Happens if China Hacks the US Water Supply? I Went to a Secret War Game to Find Out | WIRED Join WIRED’s best and brightest on Uncanny Valley as they dissect the collision of tech, politics, finance, and business, from the newest ventures to the effects of inaccurate information from artificial intelligence (AI) chatbots on social protests. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
August 18 · 40 min
Can AI Coexist With Privacy? Proton CEO Says It Will Have To
Andy Yen is co-founder of Proton, a Geneva-based company that operates a suite of privacy focused products like email, calendars, password managers and more. A former physicist and economist, Yen is a champion of encryption for everyone. So why is he going all in on un-encryptable AI? WIRED senior writer and author Andy Greenberg sat down with Yen to talk about how privacy can survive in a world of pervasive, AI-obsessed surveillance capitalism and creeping authoritarianism. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
August 13 · 32 min
Zuckerberg's AI Manifesto Explained; Inside Black Hat and DEF CON's Best Hacks
This week, the team breaks down Meta’s CEO Mark Zuckerberg's 6,500-word AI manifesto and why it ultimately rings hollow. Plus — why job seekers are scheduling bot-run interviews at 1 AM, and WIRED's Andy Greenberg joins to unpack Black Hat and DEF CON's best findings, from a hacked kids' smartwatch to a coin-sized device that can hijack a Boeing 737. Articles mentioned in this episode: The Rise of the 1 am Job Interview | WIRED Hackers Stalked Me by Hijacking a Smartwatch for Kids | WIRED This Coin-Sized Device Can Hack a Boeing 737 | WIRED McDonald’s Built a 515-Page Dossier on Me. It Says I’ll Never Stop Eating There | WIRED Join WIRED’s best and brightest on Uncanny Valley as they dissect the collision of tech, politics, finance, and business, from the newest ventures to the effects of inaccurate information from artificial intelligence (AI) chatbots on social protests. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
August 11 · 37 min
Zohran Mamdani, the Internet’s Mayor (Re-air)
Before he burst through the 2025 primaries, Zohran Mamdani was polling at the same level as literally "someone else." Then-candidate Zohran Mamdani sat down with Katie to talk about building a social media juggernaut, Big Tech capitulation, and what he learned from previous New York Mayor Eric Adams. This is a summer re-air! We are on a short vacation but back with fresh episodes very soon. Join WIRED’s best and brightest on Uncanny Valley as they dissect the collision of tech, politics, finance, and business, from Alexis Ohanian's newest tech venture to the effects of inaccurate information from artificial intelligence (AI) chatbots on social protests. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
August 6 · 33 min
How ICE Has Been Collecting DNA; SpaceX’s Rocket Crashes Into the Moon
This week, the team breaks down how ICE has collected DNA from nearly a million people this year, including young children, feeding an FBI database indefinitely. Plus — Google Earth's AI slop backfires, the White House's secretive AI cybersecurity plan, a SpaceX rocket crashes into the moon, and WIRED's Molly Taft on the strange left-right coalition fighting data centers across America. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
August 4 · 52 min
Everyone Is Using AI in Hollywood
When Puck’s Matthew Belloni reported on Amazon MGM Studios decision to dump their Sam Altman biopic mere months after announced an enormous investment into OpenAI to the tune of $50 billion – the news sent a bit of a shockwave through Hollywood as the implications of Silicon Valley's grip on the industry has seemingly entered a new phase. Matt Belloni, host of The Town podcast, joins Katie to discuss the ongoing effects of Silicon Valley’s control over Hollywood and how the core mechanics of the entertainment industry, from algorithmic green lighting to the slippery slope of AI integration, are being rewritten. Join WIRED’s best and brightest on Uncanny Valley as they dissect the collision of tech, politics, finance, and business, from Alexis Ohanian’s newest tech venture to the effects of inaccurate information from artificial intelligence (AI) chatbots on social protests. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
July 30 · 30 min
How Claude Chats Got Exposed on Google; Inside Trump's AI Policy Chaos
This week, Nvidia launched a splashy push for an open source AI security alliance alongside companies like Microsoft, SpaceX, and Palantir — notably absent were OpenAI and Anthropic. We break down what the split means for the industry and the Trump administration's own shifting opinions on AI. Plus: how Claude conversations turned up in Google and Bing search results, and the massive feat of how four whales were rescued from Canada to Chicago. Articles mentioned in this episode: Private Claude Chats Exposed in Google and Bing Search Results | WIRED Silicon Valley Is Completely Divided Over Chinese AI | WIRED The Trump Administration Is at War With Itself Over AI Regulation | WIRED Inside the Wild Rescue Mission That Took 4 Beluga Whales to Chicago | WIRED System Update Newsletter: The Best of WIRED Join WIRED’s best and brightest on Uncanny Valley as they dissect the collision of tech, politics, finance, and business, from the newest ventures to the effects of inaccurate information from artificial intelligence (AI) chatbots on social protests. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
July 28 · 44 min
Can the New York Times Save Journalism From Our AI Overlords?
A.G. Sulzberger, who took on the publisher role at The New York Times a decade ago and has been an influential leader in the Times’ much-lauded push into digital innovation, has no shortage of defending to do lately. Nearly three years ago, the Times sued OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement, alleging that the companies illegally used New York Times journalism to train AI models. That legal case, which isn’t even through discovery and has cost more than $20 million so far, is only one front in a broader battle: The Trump administration is waging an ongoing war on press freedoms—most recently with an outrageous attempt to subpoena Times journalists over coverage of the president’s Qatar-gifted Air Force One—while AI companies radically reshape the way people find and consume information online. A.G. tells WIRED’s Katie Drummond that he has no plans to stop fighting it. Join WIRED’s best and brightest on Uncanny Valley as they dissect the collision of tech, politics, finance, and business, from Alexis Ohanian’s newest tech venture to the effects of inaccurate information from artificial intelligence (AI) chatbots on social protests. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
July 23 · 35 min
Did China’s Moonshot AI Steal From Anthropic?; OpenAI Loses Control of Two Models
This week, the White House accused Chinese-owned Moonshot AI of distilling Anthropic's Fable 5 to build their much talked about Kimi K3 model. Zoë, Leah, and Brian break down whether this is a repeat of the DeepSeek moment and what it means for the AI race between the U.S and China. They also get into how the U.S Army — and plenty of Silicon Valley companies — are having to cut back AI usage after burning through their tokens. Plus, we discuss why you should check if you have an alarm that could make your car easier to hack, and how OpenAI briefly lost control of two AI models during a security test. Articles mentioned in this episode: The White House Is Trying to Figure Out What to Do About Chinese AI | WIRED OpenAI Models Escaped Containment and Hacked Hugging Face | WIRED A Device Hidden in Cars Across the US Leaves Them Vulnerable to Hacking and Paralysis. Patch It Now | WIRED System Update Newsletter: The Best of WIRED Join WIRED’s best and brightest on Uncanny Valley as they dissect the collision of tech, politics, finance, and business, from the newest ventures to the effects of inaccurate information from artificial intelligence (AI) chatbots on social protests. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
July 21 · 41 min
Stanford Grads Say Big Tech Is Creating a 'Modern-Day Draft’
More than a hundred Stanford students left their own graduation to protest Google’s military contracts and deals with ICE. Two organizers, Amanda Campos and Eva Jones, tell us why. Join WIRED’s best and brightest on Uncanny Valley as they dissect the collision of tech, politics, finance, and business, from Alexis Ohanian’s newest tech venture to the effects of inaccurate information from artificial intelligence (AI) chatbots on social protests. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
July 18 · 38 min
Why Apple Sued OpenAI; New York Takes On Data Centers; Cyclosporiasis Outbreak
This week, the team discusses the details behind Apple suing OpenAI over alleged stolen hardware secrets. And the company's headaches don't stop there — a group of OpenAI employees just started a Super PAC to advocate for stronger AI guardrails. Plus, they discuss New York's first-in-the-nation data center moratorium and how the so-called Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) is not telling how they used AI to shape housing policy. Later in the show, WIRED's Emily Mullin explaisn the cyclosporiasis outbreak spreading across the U.S. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
July 14 · 40 min
We Interviewed a Puppet and It Made A Lot of Sense
Attitudes around social media are changing. A Pew Research study found that about half of teens surveyed in 2024 felt that social media had a mostly negative impact on their age group. A group advocating a more considered relationship to tech held what they called a Summer of Ludd Festival, named after the Industrial Revolution era workers movement, the Luddites. The festival in New York City featured tech-free activities ranging from meditation to a workshop on how to flirt in real life. But in 2026, is it really possible to live without the tech we’ve become so addicted to? Guest host Manisha Krishnan, WIRED’s senior culture editor, talks to Gowanus, the spokespuppet of a local Luddite movement, about the tenets of their group - and how they plan to grow it. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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