Thoughtforms Life

Michael Levin

A podcast by Professor Michael Levin exploring the frontiers of biology, cognition, and emergence. Engage in conversations about morphogenesis, bioelectricity, and synthetic life — and uncover how intelligence and agency emerge from the most fundamental levels of nature.

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32 episodes
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Yesterday · 35 min
"Thoughts as Thinkers: the biology & computer science of inspiration" by Michael Levin
This is a ~35 minute talk titled "Thoughts as Thinkers: the biology & computer science of inspiration" I gave at a recent conference. CHAPTERS: (00:00) The nature of inspiration (15:51) Xenobots and novel minds PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website: https://thoughtforms-life.aipodcast.ing YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3pVafx6EZqXVI2V_Efu2uw Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thoughtforms-life/id1805908099 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7JCmtoeH53neYyZeOZ6ym5 Twitter: https://x.com/drmichaellevin Blog: https://thoughtforms.life The Levin Lab: https://drmichaellevin.org
Thursday · 3 min
Bio-inspired technology? #science #biology #platonicspace
This #short is an excerpt from Michael Levin's talk "Biology, AI, and Diverse Intelligence" at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or_3tlEOLj4 produced by https://x.com/DNAMediaEditing CHAPTERS: (00:00) Patterns and free lunches (01:01) Questioning biological uniqueness (01:48) Competencies beyond the code PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website: https://thoughtforms-life.aipodcast.ing YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3pVafx6EZqXVI2V_Efu2uw Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thoughtforms-life/id1805908099 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7JCmtoeH53neYyZeOZ6ym5 Twitter: https://x.com/drmichaellevin Blog: https://thoughtforms.life The Levin Lab: https://drmichaellevin.org
Tuesday · 2 min
What are we? Concepts for biology and AI #science #biology #diverseintelligence
This #short is an excerpt from Michael Levin's talk "Biology, AI, and Diverse Intelligence" at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or_3tlEOLj4 produced by https://x.com/DNAMediaEditing CHAPTERS: (00:00) Defining life and machines (00:44) Reductionists versus organicists (01:35) Rethinking machine metaphors PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website: https://thoughtforms-life.aipodcast.ing YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3pVafx6EZqXVI2V_Efu2uw Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thoughtforms-life/id1805908099 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7JCmtoeH53neYyZeOZ6ym5 Twitter: https://x.com/drmichaellevin Blog: https://thoughtforms.life The Levin Lab: https://drmichaellevin.org
Sunday · 1 hr 4 min
"Mind-Body Interface: an experimental and Clinical Perspective" by Michael Levin and Karina Kofman
This is a ~1 hour and 4 minutes talk + Q&A that my student and collaborator Karina Kofman (https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Karina-Kofman-2) and I gave to the Society for Mind-Matter Research as a keynote talk in acceptance of the best paper for 2025 award (the paper is: https://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/imp/mm/2025/00000023/00000001/art00003). CHAPTERS: (00:00) Mind and body interface (03:44) Embryonic individuation and plasticity (21:35) Clinical cases and anomalies (41:11) Platonic space of competencies (51:39) Audience questions and answers (57:19) Categories of platonic forms (01:01:18) Patterns and physical embodiment PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website: https://thoughtforms-life.aipodcast.ing YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3pVafx6EZqXVI2V_Efu2uw Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thoughtforms-life/id1805908099 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7JCmtoeH53neYyZeOZ6ym5 Twitter: https://x.com/drmichaellevin Blog: https://thoughtforms.life The Levin Lab: https://drmichaellevin.org
October 9 · 1 hr 1 min
"Neuroscience Beyond Neurons: communicating with unconventional minds" by Michael Levin
This is a ~1 hour talk given at a conference on the philosophy and future of neuroscience, so I oriented it around extending the concept of neuroscience: not the study of neural phenomena, but more broadly around how neuroscience of neural and non-neural cells shows a model system for understanding collective intelligence, and using morphogenesis as a stepping stone model system to show us how to do behavioral experiments in unconventional cognitive agents. I didn't have time for any of the biomedical applications of these ideas (lots of other talks about that) but alluded at the end to some deep questions around the properties of novel cognitive beings and our framework for addressing it. There was a really good Q&A after which will be put up by the original conference organization when they post their version. I'll link it here when it's up. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Defining unconventional minds (10:05) Scaling cognitive light cones (15:59) Morphogenesis as collective intelligence (25:46) Bioelectricity as cognitive glue (36:56) Reprogramming biological pattern memories (48:59) Xenobots and synthetic life (55:15) Platonic origins of order PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website: https://thoughtforms-life.aipodcast.ing YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3pVafx6EZqXVI2V_Efu2uw Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thoughtforms-life/id1805908099 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7JCmtoeH53neYyZeOZ6ym5 Twitter: https://x.com/drmichaellevin Blog: https://thoughtforms.life The Levin Lab: https://drmichaellevin.org
September 24 · 1 hr 3 min
Discussion with Marsha Hewitt (Platonic Space and related ideas)
This is a ~1 hour 3 minute conversation with Marsha Hewitt (https://www.trinity.utoronto.ca/profiles/hewitt-marsha/), who wanted to clarify some issues around the Platonic Space and related ideas from the perspective of her teaching students in her philosophy and psychoanalytic psychology of religion class. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Intersecting philosophy and science (09:52) Ethics of artificial minds (15:47) Structured space of patterns (31:20) Embodiment as a filter (39:36) Dualism versus monism debate (49:51) Agency in developmental biology (56:25) Communicating with alien minds PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website: https://thoughtforms-life.aipodcast.ing YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3pVafx6EZqXVI2V_Efu2uw Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thoughtforms-life/id1805908099 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7JCmtoeH53neYyZeOZ6ym5 Twitter: https://x.com/drmichaellevin Blog: https://thoughtforms.life The Levin Lab: https://drmichaellevin.org
September 22 · 21 min
"Life, Machines, and a Foundation for Synthbiosis" by Michael Levin
This is a ~21-minute talk titled "Life, Machines, and a Foundation for Synthbiosis" that I gave to the Santa Fe Institute (https://santafe.edu/) conference on "Symbiogenesis in the Age of Machine intelligence" (https://www.santafe.edu/events/symbiogenesis-in-the-age-of-machine-intelligence-2027", September 17 and 18, 2026) CHAPTERS: (00:00) Space of embodied minds (03:03) Rewriting bioelectric set points (06:08) Xenobots and novel beings (12:04) Molecular networks and learning (15:26) Mathematics as information source (18:38) Exploring anatomical morphospace PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website: https://thoughtforms-life.aipodcast.ing YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3pVafx6EZqXVI2V_Efu2uw Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thoughtforms-life/id1805908099 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7JCmtoeH53neYyZeOZ6ym5 Twitter: https://x.com/drmichaellevin Blog: https://thoughtforms.life The Levin Lab: https://drmichaellevin.org
September 21 · 52 min
Biology, AI, and Diverse Intelligence by Michael Levin
"Biology, AI, and Diverse Intelligence: what we know and don't know about embodied minds" - a 53-minute talk I gave on what the field of diverse intelligence has to say to AI research (to an audience of non-experts in AI, so it's not very technical on that end). I tried to go a little slower and explain more of the basics and logic. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Defining life and machines (04:16) Expanding the Eden view (07:41) Collective cellular intelligence (15:16) Bioelectricity and goal memories (22:08) Xenobots and novel beings (31:03) Causal emergence and math (41:58) Robotics and cognitive prosthetics (47:48) Communicating with diverse minds PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website: https://thoughtforms-life.aipodcast.ing YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3pVafx6EZqXVI2V_Efu2uw Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thoughtforms-life/id1805908099 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7JCmtoeH53neYyZeOZ6ym5 Twitter: https://x.com/drmichaellevin Blog: https://thoughtforms.life The Levin Lab: https://drmichaellevin.org
September 13 · 59 min
A conversation with Andrey Vyshedskiy about the evolution of language and brain development
This is a ~1 hour conversation with Andrey Vyshedskiy (https://www.bu.edu/prsocial/profile/andrey-vyshedskiy/) about the evolution of language, brain mechanisms, implications for autism and developmental disorders, and Andrey's work to develop therapeutic approaches. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Syntactic language network development (05:37) Three levels of comprehension (28:55) Neurobiology of sensitive periods (36:46) Recognizing the syntactic phenotype (42:24) Theory of mind mechanisms (48:51) Future levels of intelligence PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website: https://thoughtforms-life.aipodcast.ing YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3pVafx6EZqXVI2V_Efu2uw Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thoughtforms-life/id1805908099 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7JCmtoeH53neYyZeOZ6ym5 Twitter: https://x.com/drmichaellevin Blog: https://thoughtforms.life The Levin Lab: https://drmichaellevin.org
September 3 · 59 min
Conversation #1 with Diego Bohórquez and Mijail D. Serruya: how information moves levels in bodies
This is a ~59 minute working meeting where I introduce two very interesting neuroscientists to each other - Diego Bohórquez (https://medicine.duke.edu/profile/diego-v-bohorquez) and Mijail D. Serruya (https://www.jefferson.edu/academics/colleges-schools-institutes/skmc/departments/neurology/faculty/serruya.html) and we discuss ideas around how information moves from the molecular to the behavioral level in bodies and how we might be able to interface with that system via technologies that could lead to biomedical applications and deep insight into diverse intelligence. At the end we discuss one such application briefly - McConnell's professor-burgers. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Gut brain biology foundations (13:28) Neural interfaces and organoids (26:18) Information across biological levels (32:41) Environmental sensing and placebo (47:32) Translating internal biological dialogue (54:23) Collaborative next steps PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website: https://thoughtforms-life.aipodcast.ing YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3pVafx6EZqXVI2V_Efu2uw Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thoughtforms-life/id1805908099 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7JCmtoeH53neYyZeOZ6ym5 Twitter: https://x.com/drmichaellevin Blog: https://thoughtforms.life The Levin Lab: https://drmichaellevin.org
August 22 · 56 min
Conversation #1 with Steven Strogatz
This is a ~56 minute conversation with mathematician Steven Strogatz (https://www.stevenstrogatz.com/) covering issues of explanation in mathematics, Platonism, and related questions. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Mathematical explanation and AI (07:28) Reductionism across scientific fields (11:04) Intuition and mathematical deduction (18:31) Geometry versus algebraic thinking (24:32) Euler and negative logarithms (29:38) Mathematical anomalies and patterns (36:26) Scale of mathematical constants (46:55) Nature of fundamental constants (50:08) Pi beyond simple circles PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website: https://thoughtforms-life.aipodcast.ing YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3pVafx6EZqXVI2V_Efu2uw Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thoughtforms-life/id1805908099 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7JCmtoeH53neYyZeOZ6ym5 Twitter: https://x.com/drmichaellevin Blog: https://thoughtforms.life The Levin Lab: https://drmichaellevin.org
August 21 · 51 min
"Inspiration Across Substrates: free lunches, diverse intelligence and surprise" by Michael Levin
This is a ~52 minute talk on inspiration across substrates and my model of "free lunches" and the Platonic space. CHAPTERS: (00:00) The concept of inspiration (03:47) Defining the free lunch (08:47) Surprising biological plasticity (14:33) Causal emergence in networks (17:05) Competencies of synthetic organisms (25:37) Computational free lunches (33:50) Navigating diverse problem spaces (38:53) The platonic cognitive space (44:00) Ingressions and active patterns (50:16) Future of ethical symbiosis PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website: https://thoughtforms-life.aipodcast.ing YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3pVafx6EZqXVI2V_Efu2uw Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thoughtforms-life/id1805908099 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7JCmtoeH53neYyZeOZ6ym5 Twitter: https://x.com/drmichaellevin Blog: https://thoughtforms.life The Levin Lab: https://drmichaellevin.org
July 29 · 1 hr 1 min
Conversation #1 with Alexey Tolchinsky, Anthony Weiss and Chris Fields
This is a ~1 hour conversation on the future of mental health from the perspective of the diverse intelligence field, with Alexey Tolchinsky (https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=tiBKmrsAAAAJ&view_op=list_works&sortby=pubdate), Anthony Weiss (https://www.anthonypweiss.com/about-anthony-weiss), and Chris Fields (https://chrisfieldsresearch.com/). CHAPTERS: (00:00) Psychiatry's stalled progress (04:54) Faulty mental models (11:36) Tools and treatment goals (24:06) Nonlinear living systems (31:21) Energy shaping agency (41:51) Technology entangles minds (53:08) Effort and agentic models PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website: https://thoughtforms-life.aipodcast.ing YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3pVafx6EZqXVI2V_Efu2uw Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thoughtforms-life/id1805908099 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7JCmtoeH53neYyZeOZ6ym5 Twitter: https://x.com/drmichaellevin Blog: https://thoughtforms.life The Levin Lab: https://drmichaellevin.org
July 28 · 1 hr
Conversation #1 with
This is a ~1 hour working meeting with Thomas Pollak (https://www.kcl.ac.uk/people/thomas-pollak, https://drtompollak.substack.com/) and David King (https://profiles.stanford.edu/361883, https://breakingconvention.co.uk/performers/dave-king) about the intersection of neuroscience, mental health, and diverse intelligence research. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Agency in psychiatry (05:14) Mental real estate (10:31) Internal agency mechanics (21:43) Dissociation and multiplicity (30:04) Interfaces and inspiration (38:43) Signals and prostheses (48:18) Psychedelics and entities PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website: https://thoughtforms-life.aipodcast.ing YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3pVafx6EZqXVI2V_Efu2uw Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thoughtforms-life/id1805908099 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7JCmtoeH53neYyZeOZ6ym5 Twitter: https://x.com/drmichaellevin Blog: https://thoughtforms.life The Levin Lab: https://drmichaellevin.org
July 10 · 54 min
"Diverse Intelligence: new frontier for Origins, Possibilities, and Diseases of Minds by" M. Levin
This is a ~54 minute talk titled "Diverse Intelligence: a new frontier for Origins, Possibilities, and Diseases of the Mind(s)" which I gave for an audience composed of mental health professionals and neuroscientists. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Roadmap and stakes (04:13) Minds as continuum (08:04) Diverse intelligence framework (11:12) Biological plasticity examples (18:18) Morphogenesis as intelligence (22:31) Multiscale cellular agency (26:39) Anatomical problem solving (32:40) Ancient bioelectric networks (35:34) Communicating somatic goals (42:02) Cancer and medicine (46:37) Novel living agents (51:56) Ethics and summary PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website: https://thoughtforms-life.aipodcast.ing YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3pVafx6EZqXVI2V_Efu2uw Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thoughtforms-life/id1805908099 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7JCmtoeH53neYyZeOZ6ym5 Twitter: https://x.com/drmichaellevin Blog: https://thoughtforms.life The Levin Lab: https://drmichaellevin.org
June 27 · 56 min
"Energy Constraints and Tradeoffs" by Martin Picard
This is a ~57 minute talk titled "Energy Constraints and Tradeoffs: the mitochondrial daily energy expenditure MDEE study" by Martin Picard (https://www.neurology.columbia.edu/profile/martin-picard-phd) and a brief set of ideas by me at the end, presaging a full discussion of this for our next meeting. I mentioned these 2 papers: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0303264722001435 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/bies.201900245 CHAPTERS: (00:00) Mitochondria energy tradeoffs (52:14) Scarcity coordinates biology (54:44) Anthrobot aging evidence (56:31) Follow-up ideas PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website: https://thoughtforms-life.aipodcast.ing YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3pVafx6EZqXVI2V_Efu2uw Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thoughtforms-life/id1805908099 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7JCmtoeH53neYyZeOZ6ym5 Twitter: https://x.com/drmichaellevin Blog: https://thoughtforms.life The Levin Lab: https://drmichaellevin.org
June 26 · 23 min
"Aging, goal-directedness, and bioelectricity" by Michael Levin
This is ~23 minute talk overviewing our recent results and the way we think about aging and longevity. It was for a conference with quite short speaking slots so I had to talk fast... Longer talk coming with more data but this outlines some ideas and overviews our published recent work on aging. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Aging framework overview (01:16) Bodies as setpoints (03:08) Anatomical homeostasis examples (06:40) Bioelectric pattern memory (08:41) Rewriting biological setpoints (12:31) Aging bioelectric fuzziness (14:18) Sharpening brain patterns (17:34) Cognitive aging hypothesis (19:42) Atavistic tissue dissociation (22:21) Species longevity questions PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website: https://thoughtforms-life.aipodcast.ing YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3pVafx6EZqXVI2V_Efu2uw Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thoughtforms-life/id1805908099 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7JCmtoeH53neYyZeOZ6ym5 Twitter: https://x.com/drmichaellevin Blog: https://thoughtforms.life The Levin Lab: https://drmichaellevin.org
June 22 · 57 min
Computationalism and consciousness with Nic Rouleau, Jaan Aru, and Borjan Milinkovic.
Discussion #2 (57 minutes on computationalism and consciousness) with Borjan Milinkovic (https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=AwaZbzsAAAAJ&hl=en), Jaan Aru (https://scholar.google.de/citations?user=FvFOzS8AAAAJ&hl=en%29), and Nicolas Rouleau (https://scholar.google.ca/citations?user=FyOpVTAAAAAJ&hl=en). CHAPTERS: (00:00) AI consciousness middle ground (04:46) Substrate dependent minds (08:07) Analog computer substrates (13:44) Zombies and digital computers (18:56) Polycomputing and observers (25:01) Felt experience defined (30:08) Action first embodiment (34:08) Causal emergence and memory (42:36) Self versus environment (46:47) Cognitive light cones (51:44) Boundary gradients and observers PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website: https://thoughtforms-life.aipodcast.ing YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3pVafx6EZqXVI2V_Efu2uw Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thoughtforms-life/id1805908099 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7JCmtoeH53neYyZeOZ6ym5 Twitter: https://x.com/drmichaellevin Blog: https://thoughtforms.life The Levin Lab: https://drmichaellevin.org
June 20 · 49 min
Free Lunches: Model Systems for Studying the Agential Gifts from the Platonic Space by Michael Levin
This is a talk I gave, ~49 minutes long, titled "Free Lunches: Model Systems for Studying the Agential Gifts from the Platonic Space", to a philosophy audience. It covers some more ways I think about the latent space of patterns that in-forms biology and cognitive science. CHAPTERS: (00:02) Research program overview (05:15) Dissolving old categories (10:54) Goal-directed morphogenesis basics (14:11) Rewriting bioelectric patterns (19:23) Novel embodied abilities (23:35) Molecular agency ratchet (27:33) Math and living forms (33:31) Evolutionary accounting breaks (41:04) High agency patterns (47:01) Diverse intelligence future PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website: https://thoughtforms-life.aipodcast.ing YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3pVafx6EZqXVI2V_Efu2uw Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thoughtforms-life/id1805908099 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7JCmtoeH53neYyZeOZ6ym5 Twitter: https://x.com/drmichaellevin Blog: https://thoughtforms.life The Levin Lab: https://drmichaellevin.org
May 29 · 1 hr 58 min
Platonic Space discussion 5
This is a ~2 hour discussion among contributors to the Platonic Space Symposium ( CHAPTERS: (00:00) Strong perception framework (10:12) Perception model boundaries (17:41) Penrose and probabilities (30:57) Quantum interpretations debated (39:28) Probability dynamics and gravity (53:50) Relational observer problem (01:00:30) Dance synchronization physics (01:12:02) Rituals and group flow (01:23:43) Boundaries and agency (01:31:38) Religious possibility spaces (01:46:30) Numbers in theology PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website: https://thoughtforms-life.aipodcast.ing YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3pVafx6EZqXVI2V_Efu2uw Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thoughtforms-life/id1805908099 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7JCmtoeH53neYyZeOZ6ym5 Twitter: https://x.com/drmichaellevin Blog: https://thoughtforms.life The Levin Lab: https://drmichaellevin.org

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