This Isn’t Working

Tanya de Grunwald

The podcast for employers and employees who think it’s time to talk about the failings of workplace culture - and how we can do better.

Host:
Tanya de Grunwald - Journalist, HR commentator, founder of the Good + Fair Employers Club and careers blog Graduate Fog, and listed as one of HR Magazine’s ’Most Influential Thinkers’

Play

Open in

20 episodes
monthly
Avg 1 hr 5 min
English

Episodes 20

Newest Oldest Longest

All20 Unplayed20 In progress0 Played0

#34
Tuesday · 1 hr 2 min
Did The HR Industry Kill Jason Arday? (Ft. Jaco van Zyl)
What questions does Jason Arday's death raise for the UK's HR industry, and why is no-one even asking them? In what's likely to be the only podcast to drill into this hot-button topic, Tanya de Grunwald is joined by returning guest Jaco van Zyl, a psychotherapist with an interest in large group social phenomena. Jason Arday's story has been picked apart everywhere — on the front pages, on LinkedIn, at a vigil in Trafalgar Square attended by thousands. Everywhere, that is, except the one industry that arguably has the most to answer for. Tanya went looking for reflection, accountability, or even just discussion from the UK's HR and DEI establishment. She found almost nothing. Tanya and Jaco ask why an industry facing what should be an existential reckoning has instead gone completely quiet — and what that silence says about where HR really stands on diversity, hiring, and truth-telling. They ask: - Why did the tone shift so violently the moment Jason Arday's death was announced — from hard questions about his story to instant, uncritical sainthood? - What is "narcissistic large group regression," and does it explain the language of assassination, lynching and retribution aimed at journalists that Tanya heard at his vigil? - Has HR lost the public's trust in meritocratic hiring and promotion so badly that the phrase "DEI hire" was inevitable — and why did the industry fail to engage with the reason it was coined in the first place? - Why has the CIPD and the wider HR trade press stayed almost silent on all this, with just one article on Jason Arday published across HR Magazine, Personnel Today and People Management? Is this failure further proof that the CIPD's reputation is in tatters? - Did McKinsey's now-widely-disputed "business case for diversity" reports give HR the cover it needed to avoid a harder, more honest debate about race in the workplace? - If HR professionals were having these conversations privately, why weren't they happening in public — and whose job was it to create that space? Tanya doesn't let anyone off the hook — including herself, revisiting her own early, well-meaning naivety about diversity and inclusion work back in 2017 and 2018. But her sharpest fire is reserved for an industry body she says dropped the ball entirely, choosing advertising revenue over difficult conversations, and for a wider HR world too frightened of what lay beyond its own echo chamber. Jaco brings the psychotherapist's lens — on doctrine, groupthink, and what happens when institutions lose their nerve — to a story he warns is a symptom of something much bigger still to come. Enjoy the episode... JOIN 'THIS IS WORKING' Our new business network launches *very soon* (think days, not weeks!) https://tinyurl.com/2t3396yw Jaco van Zyl Critical Therapy Antidote www.criticaltherapyantidote.org On YouTube @ctapodcast On X @Jaco_v_Z @TherapyAntidote
#33
July 22 · 48 min
Why Has Pride Died? 7 Reasons The Big Brands Bailed
The rainbows are coming down, the bunting's looking tired, and the UK's biggest brands are quietly stepping away from the 'Pridemania' we have seen in the last five years. So what's really going on behind the scenes? In this episode of This Isn't Working, host Tanya de Grunwald asks why Pride has died in 2026 — looking at it squarely from an employer's perspective. With clear evidence that the UK's biggest brands are losing their appetite for rainbows and drag queens, Tanya breaks down the conversations, calculations, and power struggles happening behind the scenes at the organisations who've bailed — or, as they might put it, "decided to go in a different direction" this year. Are they stepping away because so-called 'LGBT' rights has become too political? Have they simply worked out it's bad for business as they sharpen their focus on productivity and profit? Or is it just that rainbows and drag queens are no longer fashionable? This isn't a claim that Pride is dead everywhere — plenty of brands showed visible support in stores, advertising and on social media, and turned up at the Pride in London parade again this year. But Tanya argues those big spenders are starting to look like outliers who either didn't get the memo — or know there is dissent but doubled down anyway. Adding to Tanya's analysis is James Roberts, managing director of Human Gay Male, who has also been watching the mood shift from the inside. Between them, they count seven reasons why 2026 might be the year corporate Pride sponsorship finally ran out of road — from cold, hard commercialism and fear of reputational backlash, to the "ick factor," the unreliable partners who oversold their credibility, and the sheer amount of box-ticking admin now required just to be allowed to march. We ask: - Is this genuinely a values-driven retreat — or just brands following the money as budgets tighten and "go woke, go broke" becomes boardroom shorthand? - Why has showing support for Pride month become a reputational liability rather than an easy PR win — and what does the protest against tech giant Cisco last year tell us about the risks of standing under a rainbow flag? - Did the Pride parade organisers' decision to ban political parties backfire by proving the very point they were trying to play down — that this has always been political? - What happens when the external "partners" — activist groups, DEI consultants, staff networks and suppliers like Trans in the City — that employers trusted turn out to be far less reliable, and far more combative, than advertised? - Has Pride simply become too expensive, too risky, and too much hassle for what employers actually wanted all along: an easy, cheap, feel-good bit of branding? Sharp, unflinching, and unafraid to describe exactly what she's hearing from employers this year, Tanya makes the case that no single scandal killed corporate Pride month — it was death by a thousand convenient, respectable-sounding excuses. NOTES FOR EMPLOYERS: Want more information about Tanya's new business network This Is Working? Sign up here for updates https://tinyurl.com/2t3396yw See photos of our latest This Is Working event here https://tinyurl.com/4r7d7wch
#32
March 3 · 1 hr 1 min
Have Employers Missed The Vibe Shift? (Ft. Brendan O'Neill)
Can you feel it? Change is happening — culturally, politically, and inside the workplace. Orthodoxies that shaped the last decade of daily life are being questioned and dumped. Which employers have noticed the 'vibe shift' and which have missed it? In this episode of This Isn’t Working, host Tanya de Grunwald is joined by journalist Brendan O’Neill - chief political writer at Spiked, and author of the new book 'Vibe Shift' - to examine why workplaces are both vibe shift battlegrounds, and some of the last places to formally recognise what's happening. Together, they explore how years of values-driven management, DEI orthodoxy, and risk-averse corporate decision-making have reshaped professional life — and why dismantling or reforming these systems may prove far more painful than building them. If a cultural correction is underway, employers could soon find themselves caught between competing expectations from employees, leadership, and the wider public. This conversation goes beyond headlines and culture war slogans to ask deeper questions about power, conformity, class, and institutional inertia. Why do organisations struggle to reverse course once a moral consensus has taken hold? And what happens when employees begin to sense that the rules are changing — but leadership hasn’t caught up yet? Brendan argues that entire industries and professional identities have grown around enforcing particular cultural norms, meaning any shift away from them is unlikely to be smooth or quiet. Instead, employers may face resistance, confusion, and fierce internal pushback as expectations collide with a rapidly evolving social mood. We ask: - Why are so many people talking about a “vibe shift” — and what concrete changes are actually driving the feeling that the cultural pendulum is swinging back? - Have employers become trapped by policies and workplace ideologies they adopted too quickly, without fully understanding their long-term consequences? - Why do large organisations struggle to adapt when social attitudes change — even when employees themselves can sense the mood shifting? - What role have HR departments and corporate leaders played in embedding cultural norms that may now be losing public support? - Will workplace conflict intensify before things stabilise, and how should leaders prepare for backlash from staff who feel invested in the old consensus? Provocative, timely, and often darkly funny, this episode explores the growing gap between cultural reality and workplace practice — and asks whether employers are ready for what comes next... Enjoy the episode! Buy Brendan's new book Vibe Shift: The Revolt Against Wokeness, Greenism And Technocracy https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vibe-Shift-Wokeness-Greenism-Technocracy-ebook/dp/B0G72K3PH8 This Is Working (new business network) https://thisisntworkingpodcast.co.uk/contact-2/ Photo gallery from last This Is Working event https://bit.ly/4qOtwrP0 The Brendan O'Neill Show https://www.spiked-online.com/podcast/the-brendan-oneill-show/ Freedom In The Arts https://www.freedominthearts.com/
#31
February 24 · 1 hr 4 min
Is HR Holding Back British Business? (Ft. Akua Reindorf, Octavius Black, Neil Morrison, Steve Harrison)
HR is under fire – and we need to talk about why. This blistering episode explores what's gone wrong, who's to blame – and how mistakes can be fixed. Recorded in London on 10 February 2026, this video shows what happened at our second 'This Is Working' event - an evening of frank discussion and clear-eyed analysis with senior business professionals from across the private sector. Host Tanya de Grunwald welcomed a panel of special guests: Neil Morrison - HR Director, Severn Trent Octavius Black CBE - Founder, MindGym Akua Reindorf KC - Employment and discrimination barrister Steve Harrison - Author of Adland’s Progressive Gaze: How UK Advertising Lost Sight Of The People And Things That Matter Most ** Want to attend our next This Is Working event? Keen to see the report from the second half of this evening? Drop us a line to say hello https://bit.ly/44jT7AW 00:00 Welcome - Tanya de Grunwald 11:26 Neil Morrison - HR director, Severn Trent 20:11 Octavius Black CBE - Founder, Mind Gym 35:30 Steve Harrison - Author, 'Adland's Progressive Gaze' 45:50 Akua Reindorf KC - Employment and discrimination law barrister
#30
January 20 · 1 hr 8 min
How Should Employers Handle Activist Staff? (Ft. Jaco van Zyl)
What happens when the workplace becomes a moral battleground, a group therapy session, or a political rally? And how should disruptive employees be dealt with? In this darkly funny, unsettling, and sharply insightful episode of This Isn’t Working, clinical psychologist and culture critic Jaco van Zyl takes us deep into the psychological underworld of modern workplace activism. Before empoyers can find solutions to emerging issues with increasingly demanding and unreasonable staff, they must first understand the problem - which Jaco argues has a large psychological component. From moral grandstanding and identity performance to power, status, and the strange emotional rewards of self-appointed judges of what (and who) is 'good' and 'bad', this is a conversation that goes far beyond people policies, and into the human instincts driving today’s office conflicts. As co-director of Critical Therapy Antidote, Jaco brings a clinical lens to what happens when ideology, therapy culture, and corporate life collide — and why HR often finds itself stuck playing referee (or 'Mum') in battles it was never trained to fight. We ask: - Why has activism become such a powerful source of meaning, belonging, and even excitement at work? Who is drawn to the idea of taking their identity and political views into the professional space, and why? - Have employers played a part in encouraging bad behaviour - for example, by creating internal staff networks, pandering to demands for speech policing, and embracing flawed ideas like 'bring your whole self to work'? - What are the psychological payoffs of calling out, cancelling, or 'educating' colleagues — and who really holds the power in these dynamics? What do disruptive colleagues actually want? - When and how does a drive for 'inclusion' slide into aggression, coercion, and control - and why can't activist employees tell when they've overstepped the line? - How will problematic employees respond when employers finally push back towards a more grounded, professional working environment? What strategies can they put in place to mitigate explosive reactions from troublemakers who have become accustomed to getting their own way? By turns disturbing, witty, and uncomfortably familiar, this episode offers a rare psychological look at the hidden motives, emotional currents, and unintended consequences shaping today’s “values-driven” workplace. Enjoy the episode! ** Critical Therapy Antidote https://criticaltherapyantidote.org/ Freedom in the Arts https://www.freedominthearts.com/
#29
Nov 19, 2025 · 1 hr 1 min
Pronouns v Profit: Are UK Firms Poised To Dump DEI? (Ft. Patrik Schumacher & Paul Sweeney)
Has the 'vibe shift' reached UK companies - and who's to blame for the 'inclusion' practices that turned out to be such bad business? We have brand new insights to share - straight from the mouths of UK employers. At the launch of our new business network 'This Is Working', 50 senior leaders, lawyers, HR professionals, risk experts and business owners gathered for a rare, open conversation. We also heard an exclusive talk by Alex Edmans, finance professor at London Business School, titled: 'Was there ever a business case for DEI?' What emerged from the evening was striking: the problems employers face today were not created just by activists and HR, but by decisions made across multiple departments — including legal, risk, compliance, recruitment, communications, and senior leadership. In this candid episode, Tanya de Grunwald is joined by FTSE 100 Chief Strategy Officer Paul Sweeney and architect and business leader Patrik Schumacher (of Zaha Hadid Architects) to unpack why employers are finally ready to admit that everyone played a part in creating the current confusion and mess — and why only cross-functional honesty will get us out of it. We cover: IS THIS THE MOMENT PRIVATE-SECTOR EMPLOYERS FINALLY START TALKING TO EACH OTHER? Why did so many senior leaders turn up ready to speak openly — even on taboo topics? And what does it signal that, despite the sensitive themes, not one person opted out of being photographed? HOW DID HR, LEGAL, RISK AND LEADERSHIP ALL CONTRIBUTE TO THE CURRENT PROBLEMS? From unlawful policies written without legal scrutiny, to risk teams who missed the clear dangers from HR policies, to leaders who dodged difficult conversations — how did so many disciplines independently make decisions that collectively led us here? WHY WILL FIXING THIS REQUIRE A TEAM EFFORT? Employers now see that these challenges cut across policy, culture, governance and leadership. No single department can repair this alone. We explore why only joint, honest, cross-disciplinary discussions can untangle what’s gone wrong. CAN WE MOVE FROM GROUPTHINK TO GROWTH? After years of silence, deference and “be kind” culture, organisations are realising how dangerous it is when teams stop challenging each other. What happens when leaders actively encourage disagreement, scrutiny and open debate again? WHAT DID PROFESSOR ALEX EDMANS REVEAL ABOUT THE ‘BUSINESS CASE’ FOR DEI? We examine his keynote showing that demographic diversity was never the performance driver employers believed it to be — and why firms are now refocusing on cognitive diversity, evidence and commercial realism. HOW DID WELL-MEANING POLICIES CREATE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES? From recruitment practices that illegally skew hiring, to training that shut down discussion, to policies that exposed organisations to legal and reputational risks — how did siloed decisions spiral into today’s problems? WHY HAS DISABILITY BEEN IGNORED — AND WHAT DOES THAT TELL US We revisit powerful contributions about disability being crowded out by more fashionable causes. What can this teach employers about how “inclusion” drifted away from evidence, need and fairness? WHY TALKING — OPENLY, HONESTLY, AND SOON — IS THE ONLY WAY FORWARD Across the room there was agreement: employers must stop whispering and start talking. Only by sharing what’s gone wrong, and comparing notes across functions and organisations, can we rebuild workplaces that are lawful, functional and genuinely inclusive. This is a hopeful, energising episode about the start of a new phase for UK employers — one in which leaders finally have the confidence to speak plainly, work collaboratively, and fix the problems created during a strange and turbulent decade of workplace culture change. * WISH YOU WERE THERE? Buy our bundle including the video of Alex's talk, and the anonymised report capturing the audience discussion https://bit.ly/47ZBokp (It's free to those who attended on the night - contact Tanya for details)
#28
Oct 22, 2025 · 44 min
Who Will Win The War On 'Woke' Workplaces? (Ft. Eric Kaufmann)
Who is still pushing 'woke' at work - and why is it so hard to challenge? This entertaining episode (recorded at the Battle of Ideas on 19 October 2025) explores the exasperating power of virtue signaling, lived experience and cancel culture at work. And we ask: what will it take to restore balance and neutrality to the UK's workplaces? With thanks to Eric Kaufmann - professor of politics at the University of Buckingham, and author of Taboo: How Making Race Sacred Produced a Cultural Revolution - for joining Tanya de Grunwald for this special live episode. **** This Is Working - Tanya's new business network Launch event - Tuesday 4 November, 6.30pm, Central London https://thisisntworkingpodcast.co.uk/were-launching/
#27
Sep 10, 2025 · 1 hr 17 min
Inside The Reform Conference: What Do Employers Need To Know? (Ft. Heeral Gudka & Levi Pay)
Can Left-leaning HR teams face the truth – that many of their colleagues support Reform UK? Or will employees with a St George's Cross sticker on their laptop be forced to apologise for the 'harm' it causes to colleagues? In this episode, Tanya de Grunwald describes her trip to the Reform UK Party Conference in Birmingham – and what Nigel Farage's soaring popularity (and the UK’s rising political temperature) means for employers. Tanya, Heeral Gudka and Levi Pay discuss the challenges and risks that organisations must grapple with... before it's too late. Notes : JOIN US AT THE BATTLE OF IDEAS! Saturday 18 and Sunday 19 October 2025 Church House, Westminster, London https://www.battleofideas.org.uk/battle-of-ideas-festival-tickets-2025/ For 20% off use the code WORKING *Early Bird tickets end Thursday 18 September* This Isn’t Working will be recorded LIVE on Sunday 19 October at 12.45pm Episode: Who Will Win The War On Woke Workplaces? (Ft. Eric Kaufmann: author of Taboo, and Professor of Politics at the University of Buckingham) Don’t Divide Us: The Equality Act Isn’t Working (report) https://bit.ly/45Xe2uz Reform UK member Saba Poursaeedi’s case against Hightown https://bit.ly/41MTvXf Heera Gudka https://convergentconsulting.org/ Levi Pay https://www.plinthhouse.com/
#26
Aug 4, 2025 · 1 hr 7 min
How Did We End Up With A Case Like Sandie Peggie? (Ft. Heeral Gudka)
Have standards collapsed across HR? Why are so many HR professionals confused about what their job is – and who is to blame for the mess? Some shocking practice has been exposed recently, raising urgent questions about standards, ethics and legal compliance across the UK’s HR industry. Are we seeing pockets of incompetence – or do the worst cases (such as Sandie Peggie and the Darlington nurses) point to rot so deep and widespread that it is now the competent HR professionals who are in the minority? To explore these questions, Tanya de Grunwald is joined by Heeral Gudka, director of the DEI consultancy Convergent, and author of a white paper titled Freedom of Expression and Belief Conflicts are the New EDI Frontier. Reflecting on their experiences at the UK’s biggest HR conference – the CIPD Festival of Work, in June – Tanya and Heeral conclude that robust debate and high-quality training has vanished, and been replaced by sponsor-driven content designed to generate income for the conference organisers, not to give HR professionals the challenging learning experience they need. Perhaps most worryingly, Tanya and Heeral recall a shocking panel discussion at the conference about the Equality Act, where a CIPD staff member said the recent Supreme Court ruling (that ‘sex’ means biological sex, according to the law) ‘erodes trans rights,’ and creates confusion for employers. Then he made a flippant comment about ‘policing’ women’s toilets. And the lawyer on the panel – representing Lewis Silkin – appeared to express similar confusion and incompetence. No wonder this industry is in a muddle, if these are the people who have been appointed to set standards… Enjoy the episode! Heeral's company: Convergent https://convergentconsulting.org/ Heeral's white paper: Freedom Of Expression and Belief Conflicts Are The New EDI Frontier https://convergentconsulting.org/foe-paper/ CIPD panel discussion: What Would A Future Focussed Equality Act Look Like? Full recording: https://bit.ly/45jVC5A
#25
Jul 2, 2025 · 1 hr 26 min
Who's Ignoring The Supreme Court Ruling - And Why? (Ft. Helen Joyce & Inji Duducu)
Trans women are not women, said the UK Supreme Court on 16 April – so why have some employers failed to bring their policies and practices in line with the law? Are they ‘captured’, conflicted - or just clueless? How did we reach a point where the Prime Minister Keir Starmer felt he needed to remind public sector HR professionals of their duty to follow the law (underlining the judges’ confirmation that ‘sex’ in the Equality Act 2010 means biological sex, with or without a Gender Recognition Certificate)? To answer these questions, we retrace our steps, examining how ‘trans inclusion’ was introduced to employers and embedded into organisations without proper scrutiny. This groundbreaking conversation between Helen Joyce, director of advocacy at Sex Matters, and Inji Duducu, an HR director with 30 years’ experience in retail and banking, is a world first. We address the questions above, plus: * WHEN WAS ‘TRANS INCLUSION’ FIRST INTRODUCED TO EMPLOYERS – and what happened to HR professionals who pushed back against activists’ demands? Inji recalls the immediate, chilling and 'unbelieveably effective' impact of 'no debate'… * HOW SHOULD ORGANISATIONS HANDLE SENIOR STAFF WITH A TRANS-IDENTIFIED CHILD? Why will they struggle to see this issue clearly? And is this about politics, identity – or faith? * WHY DID SOME LAW FIRMS MISLEAD EMPLOYERS ABOUT THIS ISSUE? Was this because of their links to Stonewall - or were young, activist lawyers poorly supervised? * IS THE CIPD TO BLAME FOR EMBEDDING BAD LAW INTO POLICY? How much damage has its 2023 trans inclusion guidance done to its members' organisations? Which other regulators got this subject wrong, and why? * DID THE HR PRESS FAIL IN ITS DUTY TO INFORM INDUSTRY PROFESSIONALS OF THE LEGAL RISKS? Why are significant cases still being minimised or ignored, including by the CIPD’s magazine, People Management? * WAS THE LAW FIRM CLIFFORD CHANCE UNWISE TO HOST THE PODCAST ‘QUEER AF’ – in which the Supreme Court judges were called ‘f***ing idiots’, to laughter and applause? Is it time for big firms to axe staff who continue to create legal, commercial and reputational risk for their organisation around this issue? It’s a bumper episode… Get the popcorn and strap in! NOTES: Sex Matters: Putting the Supreme Court ruling into practice https://bit.ly/44eyQgh Darlington nurse Karen Danson speaks to the Mail on Sunday: https://bit.ly/44sL0RD Queer AF podcast at Clifford Chance: - Audio ('F***ing idiots' segment from 33.36 - 36.16) https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/live-episode-star-wars-abigail-thorn-and-sex/id1126301158?i=1000706763444 - Photos https://www.instagram.com/p/DJbHU67CER5/?igsh=anpkMXlodnNxZG5j
#24
Jun 10, 2025 · 1 hr 1 min
Is It 'Woke' To Care About Poor Kids? (Ft. Prof Dr Ger Graus)
Would scrapping DEI really mean a 'return to meritocracy' - or is there no such thing? What will happen if employers, educators and politicians stop all attempts to level the playing field, and instead do nothing to adjust for disadvantage? In this illuminating episode, Professor Dr Ger Graus shares his insights about advantage, ambition and opportunity learned over the course of his long career in education and research. He also explains why he thinks the loudest voices on education and employment policies (including DEI - diversity, equity and inclusion) are often the least qualified to offer helpful solutions. In this conversation, we ask: WHAT DO CRITICS OF DEI FAIL TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE NATURE OF AMBITION AND OPPORTUNITY and the importance of representation, role models, confidence, practice and polish as predictors of achievement and career success? IS IT FAIR TO CLAIM THAT DEI IS ‘SOCIAL ENGINEERING’ when the advantage of class – particularly private school – is surely the most brazen example of social engineering ever, and we seem to have accepted that as a fact of life? WHAT CAN EMPLOYERS LEARN FROM FOUR-YEAR-OLDS? From his experience as global education director at Kidzania – an immersive theme park for children aged four to 14, funded by corporate sponsors who see the value of investing in experiential learning – Ger helps us to join the dots from young children to the world of work. Did you know girls choose activities below their age range - and kids from the poorest areas show no interest in activities which are alien from their daily life? What does this mean for the talent pipelines that employers see when these kids reach working age? WHERE DID EMPLOYERS START TO LOSE PUBLIC SUPPORT? If people are broadly supportive of efforts to improve social mobility, where did attempts to improve access for disadvantaged young people start to create suspicion, division and resentment? WHAT ARE THE RISKS OF POLITICIANS AND EMPLOYERS ADOPTING A ‘DO NOTHING’ APPROACH TO SOCIAL DISADVANTAGE? Is there a risk of civil unrest? Are economics really the best motivator for change? Or do we need to ask bigger questions, like: ‘What sort of country do we want to live in?’ WHY IS IT SO HARD FOR EMPLOYERS TO WORK WITH SCHOOLS AND COLLEGES? Are teachers and civil servants at the Department for Education too suspicious of private sector employers’ attempts to collaborate? HOW ARE OTHER COUNTRIES DOING THINGS BETTER THAN THE UK? What can we learn from educational institutions and government policies around the world - and how might employers benefit from more long-term, joined-up approach to policy-making? Enjoy the episode... Buy Ger Graus' new book: Through A Different Lens: Lessons From A Life In Education https://www.amazon.co.uk/Through-Different-Lens-Lessons-Education/dp/1032896434
#23
May 21, 2025 · 1 hr 11 min
Inside The Stonewall Conference: What Didn't Work? (Ft. Levi Pay)
Was this a business event - or a spiritual gathering? What did Stonewall say about the Supreme Court ruling? And what valuable content did employers gain from their £400 tickets? Our host Tanya de Grunwald shares exclusive insights from her day at Stonewall's 2025 Workplace Conference - and invites Levi Pay, director of Plinth House (and former Stonewall intern!) to provide further analysis about this highly unusual event. They cover: * What was it like arriving at the event with Maya Forstater, co-founder of Sex Matters? Who else had paid to attend - and who were the noisy protesters outside the venue? * Why were there no photos, no questions - and no analysis of the Supreme Court ruling? * Who were the speakers - and what did they cover? Why was Tanya puzzled by some of the presentations, and alarmed by those from the National Trust and Trans in the City? * Are 'LGBT' partners with an activist agenda starting to turn on employers who they feel have let them down by respecting the Supreme Court ruling (defining 'sex' in the Equality Act 2010) - especially around the provision of single-sex spaces at work? Should big brands be worried about Pride? * Did Stonewall's slogan 'No debate' end up creating a cohort of fragile (and sometimes volatile) young people who will struggle to integrate with their colleagues? * Would Levi and Tanya's plans to redesign this event have improved its chances of engaging with the law, reality, disagreement, and the employers who are crying out for advice they can trust in this area? Enjoy the episode! Thanks to Blackbird Documentaries for permission to use the protest footage https://youtu.be/lLEoBKf1SLs?si=9DFWlKUsj6bXzukI
#22
May 7, 2025 · 1 hr 6 min
What Is A Woman (At Work)? HR Director Faces Maya Forstater (Ft. Neil Morrison)
It’s official: self-ID was never lawful, and too many UK employers have dangerous policies in place. Why did we need the Supreme Court to tell us this – and what should employers do now? Since the landmark ruling on 16 April, emotions have been running high, and HR teams face the daunting task of assessing and correcting their policies, while managing employee reactions from across their workforce, and hot takes from activist pressure groups and keen to overturn or circumvent the ruling. The CIPD has dropped the ball, so we’re picking it up, presenting HR professionals with this calm, dispassionate analysis to help you find clarity and a way forward. If you identify as sensible, this is the conversation for you. This week’s episode features two guests: Maya Forstater (women’s rights campaigner and founder of Sex Matters) and Neil Morrison (HR director at Severn Trent). We ask: * What does the Supreme Court ruling mean for employers? * If the judgement was clear, who has been creating confusion – and why? * How have big employers reacted to the news? What mistakes does Neil think they have made? * Which employers will find it hardest to unpick the problems they’ve woven into their organisation’s policies and culture? * What are the legal risks for employers who don’t sort this out immediately? * What role have Stonewall, the CIPD, confused lawyers, and poor-quality #DEI training played in leading employers down the wrong path? * Have employers who have got this wrong underestimated the scale of the mess they have made? Do they understand how angry some of their employees are - and is it time to apologise? Looking back, this sort of conversation should have happened a long time ago. Whatever your personal view on this topic, it’s become clear that ‘No debate’ belongs in the bin. It's time to start talking... Enjoy the episode!
#21
Apr 22, 2025 · 1 hr 13 min
Can Men Be Lesbians At Work? (Ft. Kellie-Jay Keen)
As employers grapple with the Supreme Court ruling, we ask: how did ‘trans inclusion’ go so wrong at work? Have HR teams been silencing women with reasonable objections to policies which prioritise gender identity over biological sex? How much of this mess is the fault of the Chartered Institute of Personnel Development (CIPD) - and can men be lesbians at work? In this explosive, powerful and moving new episode of This Isn’t Working, women’s rights campaigner Kellie-Jay Keen delivers some truth bombs for UK employers to consider. As they examine the implications of the judge's clarification that ‘sex’ and ‘woman’ in the Equality Act 2010 refers to biological sex (not gender identity, or the sex stated on a person’s Gender Recognition Certificate), we ask: Why do so many women at Kellie-Jay’s Let Women Speak events say they have been shamed and silenced by their employers after questioning ‘trans inclusion’ policies which they say distort sex-based language, and disadvantage women? Is it ‘transphobic’ for female employees to voice concerns about the unintended consequences of workplace policies created without their input or consent? Do employers understand that for some trans women (biological males) there is a sexual motivation for dressing as they do, and for requesting accommodations from their colleagues? Who are ‘trans widows’ – and is it time for employers to recognise that the impact of later-life transition is not always positive for the ex-partner and children of that person? Should more thought be given to the notion that everyone’s identity should be ‘celebrated’ at work? Is it appropriate to expect employees to welcome gender diversity trainers who are still campaigning for puberty blockers for gender-distressed children, and who champion medical transition as the best solution for gender-confused adults? Have Barclays, Google, EY, BP, JP Morgan, Amazon, Clifford Chance, Whitbread, Metro Bank, Sky, Bloomberg, Sage and Gallagher done enough due diligence on the ‘trans awareness’ partners they have been working with? In the cold light of day, will they have regrets about the messages they have been promoting to staff over the last few years? Has the CIPD failed in its duty to provide HR professionals with accurate and balanced information to help to create workable, legally sound policy? Has some of its advice actually *created* legal risk for employers? If employers have made big mistakes in this area, how can they be fixed? Enjoy the episode... NB. This conversation was recorded just before the Supreme Court ruling - but it was never intended to be about the law! More great guests coming soon, to dig into the detail of what the Supreme Court ruling means for employers and employees... Kellie-Jay Keen: YouTube @KellieJayKeen X https://x.com/ThePosieParker Let Women Speak: X https://x.com/StandingforXX Website https://www.letwomenspeak.org/
#20
Mar 26, 2025 · 1 hr 7 min
Are Activist CEOs Out Of Control? (Ft. Paul Sweeney)
Why are so many big brands insulting and confusing their customers and employees with divisive political statements – and will anyone grab the wheel before the decision-makers drive the company off a cliff? If senior leaders have a clear political agenda (eg. Israel/Gaza, or environmentalism) or personal interest (eg. racial justice, or a trans-identifying child) should they be removed from discussions where their strong emotions create a conflict of interest? Bud Light’s decision to work with the trans influencer Dylan Mulvaney (creating a 25% sales dive) wasn’t an isolated incident. Aviva, Ben & Jerry’s, Wickes, Starbucks, Coca Cola, Wickes, John Lewis, NatWest, Unilever, Proctor and Gamble and Virgin Active have all been burned after wandered into red-hot debates. Is this recklessness coming from the top – or have the senior leaders lost control of activist groups at more junior levels? Are boards broken – or just looking the other way? And why aren’t risk teams flagging the obvious legal, reputational and financial dangers here? This episode is packed with insights about the shadowy world of senior leadership – and analysis of what is going badly wrong in so many companies. According to Paul Sweeney, seasoned corporate strategic advisor, and author of Magnetic Nonsense, we are watching the shattering of the ‘illusion of corporate governance’ – and it’s quite a spectacle! We discuss: * WHAT RISK ARE COMPANIES RUNNING BY FOLLOWING ACTIVIST AGENDAS? Who is pushing these, why is it so hard to stop them – and should CEOs who damage the organisation’s reputation and/or finances be fired? (Paul says yes…) * WHY DID BOARDS PANIC IN 2020? Were they too quick to make political statements and approve DEI targets, after the death of George Floyd? Paul remembers that period vividly… * WHAT ROLE DID MANAGEMENT CONSULTANCIES PLAY IN STEERING COMPANIES IN THE WRONG DIRECTION ON DEI? Paul admits no-one read the small print of the McKinsey reports which claimed demographic diversity leads to better business outcomes * HAVE BIG FIRMS BEEN DOING POSITIVE DISCRIMINATION ‘BY STEALTH’ AT SENIOR LEVELS, even though it is unlawful in the UK? Have specialist diversity headhunters like Green Park and Involve solved any problems – or just made a fortune creating new ones for us all, including the suspicion that some senior leaders are ‘DEI hires’ when in fact they were appointed on merit? * HOW WILL COMPANIES BACKTRACK FROM HERE? And has Donald Trump changed everything? Enjoy the episode!
#19
Mar 19, 2025 · 1 hr 10 min
Does DEI Have A Misogyny Problem? (Ft. Gareth Roberts)
Have you noticed that many of the loudest voices in DEI are men’s – and some get really angry when they’re challenged by women? Same here! So let’s get into it. Which men are drawn to DEI, how much damage are they doing – and is it just a weird coincidence that many of them are gay? The writer Gareth Roberts – himself a (lovely!) gay man; and the author of Gay Shame – agrees that something dark is happening, and women need to wise up. In this episode Gareth and Tanya explore the outsized influence of the high-profile men in DEI, and scrutinise the tactics they use to push their own supposedly ‘inclusive’ agenda – whether the rest of us like it or not. We also highlight examples of some of their most shocking behaviour. And, yes, we name names. They’ve posted their thoughts publicly, so why not? Game on. Tanya and Gareth discuss: WHICH MEN ARE ATTRACTED TO DEI – AND WHY? Gareth says the allure of soft power, glitzy events and the chance to talk about themselves(!) can be an intoxicating mix… WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WOMEN CHALLENGE THEM? Gareth reacts to some of their most aggressive responses to reasonable questions from women on Linkedin. Why does one of DEI’s biggest blokes feel so confident calling gender critical women ‘TERFs’ on public platforms? And is it time he apologised for accusing mild-mannered employment lawyer Audrey Ludwig of ‘sealioning’ for daring to disagree with him? WHAT RISKS ARE THESE MEN CREATING FOR THE ORGANISATIONS THEY WORK FOR? Would an employment tribunal share the view that everyone is welcome in the ‘inclusive’ culture they claim to have created? Can you declare yourself an Elon Musk fan in a workplace policed by their team? And why haven’t they recalibrated since Donald Trump’s victory, and the Cass Review? WHICH GROUPS ARE AN AFTERTHOUGHT IN THEIR ‘INCLUSIVE’ CULTURE? Do the in-house DEI guys allocate enough resource to disability, social mobility, pregnancy and motherhood? Or are they using their power to prioritise their own pet causes, and bring in iffy trainers they are too cosy with? WHO ARE THE ‘MALE ALLIES’ – AND WHAT MOTIVATES THEM? Does painting their nails really challenge gender stereotypes – and why are some of them so keen to talk about menstruation? And – while they claim to be helping women – are they actually dividing us? Buckle up, boys... Enjoy the episode! Gay Shame by Gareth Roberts is available on Amazon
#18
Mar 12, 2025 · 58 min
Did DEI Dump Disability For 'Pride And Parties'? (Ft. George Fielding)
Are neurodiversity, mental health and 'LGBT' winning the war for employers' attention - while disability has been sidelined? Has the 'lived experience' industry become superficial and exploitative? And have staff networks turned into unsupervised - and even dangerous - group therapy sessions in the workplace? Disability rights campaigner George Fielding doesn't want to 'be kind' if it means endlessly affirming fragility – or pretending that groups who need additional support aren't competing for employers’ attention and resources. And he says the era of 'no debate' is over. It's time to talk. People will have different ideas about priorities and paths to success on disability but ‘We’ll never make progress if we can’t be honest.’ In this groundbreaking episode of This Isn't Working, we ask: * DO PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES FEEL ABANDONED BY EMPLOYERS who seem to have prioritised issues such as neurodiversity, mental health, and ‘LGBT’ in discussions about DEI (AKA 'EDI' in the UK)? (Spoiler: Yes!) * ARE ‘LIVED EXPERIENCE’ TRAINERS DOING MORE HARM THAN GOOD? Where is the due diligence on the disability consultants who employers are inviting in – and is this expertise, or just oversharing? Do they understand the Equality Act? What unhealthy messages do they promote to impressionable audiences – and will the results only ever be superficial, as opposed to systemic? * HOW DO DISABILITY, NEURODIVERSITY AND TRANS IDENTITIES INTERSECT IN THE WORKPLACE? Is it appropriate for employers to be hosting conversations which result from poor sex and relationship education and mental health support for those with additional needs? If staff networks have become co-rumination bubbles, activist groups or unsupervised group therapy sessions, should employers shut them down and move these discussions *out* of the workplace? * IS IT UNWISE TO LET SUCH RAW LIVED EXPERIENCE SHAPE COMPANY POLICY? After a long wait, an ADHD diagnosis can feel like a ‘reward,’ says George. This can create a sense of ‘rebirth’ and feed an urge to seek justice for past failure or discrimination. Have you considered this, or taken these employees’ views at face value? * DOES LANGUAGE MATTER? Views will vary, but George isn’t fussed. (There are only three words he doesn’t like!) In fact, he thinks language policing is actually *holding back* debate. ‘If we’re still arguing over which words we use, we’re never going to have the discussions we need, to move things forward.’ * WHY ARE THERE STILL SO FEW PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES IN SENIOR LEADERSHIP ROLES? George explains that employed disabled people often feel so *grateful* to be in work that they hesitate when it comes to pushing for a promotion, or risking finding a new employer. Have you considered this? We share George’s view that this vital conversation has stalled – and employers have lost focus. Despite all the controversy around #DEI, it is hard to find anyone who doesn’t think people with disabilities should be prioritised, and #AccessToWork improved. Is it time for employers to put the spotlight back on to disability?
#17
Mar 5, 2025 · 1 hr 7 min
'Trans Inclusion' At Work: Time For A New Approach? (Ft. Stella O'Malley)
In trying to make our workplaces ‘inclusive’ to people who identify as trans and non-binary, have employers excluded and alienated too many others? In some cases, it looks like we are actually causing distress to our colleagues, without even realising. If it’s bad for our teams, and it’s bad for business, is it time to look at 'trans inclusion' again? Future episodes will cover the legal aspect of this topic (including why many lawyers are warning employers not to follow the CIPD’s ‘Trans and non-binary inclusion’ guides – especially the 2023 version. Reminder: religious and gender critical beliefs are protected under the Equality Act 2010). But first, let’s step back and look at the people side of things. What was originally presented to employers as an extension of the gay rights movement has turned out to be something far more complex, sensitive, and political. You might even ask whether this discussion belongs with HR at all. What is ‘trans’ really all about? A range of perspectives is available – and we won’t all agree. What we are more likely to agree about is the presence of a lot of pain – and not just that of our colleagues who identify as trans or non-binary, whose stories we have heard much about in recent years. It is time to hear the untold stories of the people closest to them – who are also working alongside us, whether we realise it or not? While themes of joy and authenticity surround trans-led discussions, not every family has such a happy tale to tell. It can't be right that employers are cherry-picking whose distress is seen, and whose is ignored. In this episode, Stella O’Malley, director of Genspect, explains who in your workforce is currently suffering in silence. Perhaps they fear their colleagues’ reactions - or perhaps they feel this is simply too painful to discuss at work, where they come to think about other things. Are these groups likely to be performing at their best in your organisation? Consider: * Parents of distressed children or teens who identify as trans or non-binary, who don’t believe medical transition is the right path for their child * Estranged parents of older children who have lost touch after saying they identify as trans * 'Trans widows' and children of transitioners - the exes and kids of biological males who transition later in life don’t always want to celebrate this change * 'Detransitioners' and 'desisters' - who identify as trans for a while, but later decide it is not the right choice for them Do you know if these groups are in your workforce? Have you insisted they attend gender diversity training where contested ideas were presented as fact? How will they feel about your plans for Pride this summer, if the activities include uncritical affirmation of a medicalised approach to trans? And is your organisation appealing to talent from these groups, when seeking a new role? This is a big opportunity for HR professionals to show we are able to recalibrate, when new information becomes available. Is it time to put our heads together, and find better ways to make sure everyone feels welcome and able to do their best work within our organisations? What would a genuinely inclusive approach look like - and how should employers move forward from here? Enjoy the episode... Genspect https://genspect.org/ Children of Transitioners http://childrenoftransitioners.org/ 18 months - A Memoir Of A Marriage Lost To Gender Identity (by Shannon Thrace) https://www.amazon.co.uk/18-Months-Memoir-Marriage-Identity/dp/B0BHTN37H6 Men trapped in men's bodies (by Anne Lawrence) https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-1-4614-5182-2 Interview with Anne Lawrence https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_1wXsYdzMI
#16
Feb 26, 2025 · 1 hr 12 min
Advertising: What Isn't Working? (Ft. Steve Harrison)
DID HR CRASH JAGUAR? Has advertising lost touch with consumers – and what role have its 'people professionals' played? If a strongly left-leaning, middle class monoculture has evolved, is the industry in any position to preach about diversity? Doesn't anyone care about selling stuff anymore – and is it too late to turn this around? In this episode Tanya takes a deep dive into what isn’t working in the UK’s advertising industry, in conversation with the fabulously frank copywriting legend Stever Harrison. Why be so specific about one industry? Because – although there are universal themes, such as group think and a lack of moral courage – it’s become clear that every industry faces its own problems, when it comes to talent, leadership and culture. Who is attracted that industry? How has it evolved? What makes it vulnerable to bad ideas – and what explains its failure to address problems which are glaringly obvious to outsiders? Tanya's path crossed with Steve’s, so we thought we'd start with advertising. In this rich, varied and often-funny conversation, you’ll hear them ask: HOW HAVE UNIVERSITY GRADUATES CHANGED THE INDUSTRY? Do they want to make great adverts – or do they want to save the world? If young people think capitalism is bad (or at least a bit naff), what do they think advertising *is*? Has the industry mis-sold itself to a generation of young talent? IS THE AD INDUSTRY ‘WOKE-WASHING’ ITSELF? While championing on-screen race and gender diversity (think Jaguar and Bud Light), Steve says Adland has failed to address its own biases and monoculture – and is now staffed almost exclusively by a ‘middle class, left-leaning, metropolitan elite.’ IF ‘SOCIAL PURPOSE’ ADVERTISING WAS AN EVDIENCE-FREE FAD, WHY DID EVERYONE GO ALONG WITH IT FOR YEARS? This is a shocker. For over a decade, marketing giant Edelman pushed flimsy data claiming Gen Z cared more about progressive politics than product or price, Steve says. When FMCG giants Proctor & Gamble and Unilever lapped it up, every ad agency followed, as it suited their personal politics. Ads that sold nothing won awards, and the industry press was silent. Had these organisations had healthy, mixed cultures which encouraged challenge, would the business case for social purpose ads have been rejected much sooner? How much money was wasted by clients and agencies during this period, because their culture discouraged internal debate, and incentivised nodding along? DID THESE BAD IDEAS BLEED INTO EMPLOYER BRANDING? Did employer branding agencies like Havas People and Thirty Three borrow Edelman’s iffy ideas about Gen Z’s priorities, and push brands towards positioning themselves as being ethical, socially responsible graduate employers – even if they weren’t particularly? (Does this explain the disillusionment many 20something staff are expressing now?) WHY HAVEN’T WE SEEN MORE EMPLOYMENT TRIBUNALS? The fear factor is huge in advertising, says Steve, who likens challenging Adland’s holding companies to ‘playing poker against the richest gamblers at the table. And, even if you win, you’ll never work again…’ WHAT HAPPENED TO LEADERSHIP? Ad agency execs are well paid, and not stupid. But Steve says they are preoccupied with social status, and their relationship and clients has felt increasingly coercive as budgets have been redirected towards digital agencies delivering cheaper, quicker results. With these dynamics at play, will leaders admit their part in creating the industry’s current problems? Or will they just push on, hiring the same people and repeating the same mistakes that continue to leave the rest of us baffled about what has gone so wrong? Huge thanks to Steve for being such interesting and entertaining company. Enjoy the episode!
#15
Feb 5, 2025 · 1 hr 1 min
The Civil Service: What Isn't Working? (Ft. Pamela Dow)
What happens when you ask whether Human Resources has lost the plot in places – including around DEI? Pamela Dow – Chief Operating Officer at think tank Civic Future – found out the hard way, as author of that New Statesman article on HR, and chair of that government report on DEI. In this episode, Pamela explains why she’s more convinced than ever that ‘something is definitely going on’ with HR – and why that motivates her to keep asking important questions, especially when they are taboo. We discuss: * WHY DID THE HR INDUSTRY FIND HER CRITIQUE SO… TRIGGERING? Does she stand by the New Statesman article? Does she regret not speaking to CIPD (Chartered Institute of Personnel Development) CEO Peter Cheese before she submitted it? And is she ‘right-wing’? * WHO IS DRAWN TO A CAREER IN HR? Does the industry represent itself appropriately to new talent – or are we setting unhelpful expectations which cause trouble in the future? * WHAT IS THE CIPD ACTUALLY DOING? A blend of trade union, membership association and lobby group is ‘a difficult balance to tread,’ Pamela says. Is the CIPD’s identity crisis partly to blame for the confusion and ‘mission creep’ which HR’s critics now say it suffers from? In the second half this episode, we turn to ‘what isn’t working’ in the Civil Service, asking: * IS THERE A PIPELINE PROBLEM? Who is attracted to a career in the Civil Service – and have mistakes been made with employer branding? For example, should recruitment teams have pushed back on ‘whizzy Soho marketing agencies’ who prioritised promoting the Civil Service Fast Stream as a chance to change the world – rather than becoming dutiful public servant to the government of the day? * WHY ARE CIVIL SERVANTS BEHAVING LIKE ACTIVISTS – WHEN THEY’RE MEANT TO BE INDEPENDENT? Why has DEI become so big in the Civil Service? Was Baroness Claire Fox right to express alarm at the ‘group think’ she’s witnessed around race and gender identity in her recent speech in the House of Lords? And does the Civil Service have a particular problem with staff who express gender critical views? * WHY ARE CIVIL SERVANTS SUCH BRAZEN JOB-HOPPERS? Pamela explains the incentives that drive people to move from department to department – and we discuss the dangers of being deficient in deep expertise, but pretending you know it all... * IS THE CIVIL SERVICE TOO COSY WITH THE CIPD? Is as much as £10m of taxpayers’ money funding CIPD credentials for HR professionals working in the Civil Service? Is this ethical, if the main benefit is to the individual, and the CIPD appears to enjoy a monopoly in providing this service? Enjoy the episode! Watch on YouTube https://bit.ly/4aL6Diy #hr #dei #humanresources #woke

Showing 1–20 of 20 episodes