The Vertical Space

Jim Barry, Peter Shannon & Luka Tomljenovic

The Vertical Space is a podcast at the intersection of technology and flight, featuring deep dives with innovators, early adopters, and industry leaders.

We talk about the radical impact that technology is creating as it disrupts flight, enabling new ways to access the vertical space to improve our lives - from small drones to large aircraft. Our guests are operators and innovators across the value chain: airframers, technologists, data and service providers, as well as end users.

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114 episodes
Updated July 19

Episodes114

Newest first

Nov 21, 2023 · 1 hr 11 min
#54 Stuart Ginn, WakeMed: A physician's perspective on medical drone delivery
Welcome back to The Vertical Space for a deep dive into the medical delivery use case, or I should say another deep dive into this interesting topic. We’ve had guests in the past – notably Justin Steinke from Spright – where we talked about the medical delivery use case from an operator and drone expert perspective. This time, we get to hear from Stuart Ginn who besides having a professional aviation background is also a physician and therefore looks at the drone opportunity through the lens of a healthcare professional – somebody engaged in delivering healthcare and intimately familiar with the complexities associated with it. We’ve covered a lot of ground in this conversation, starting with a description of the existing internal logistics systems within a large healthcare system, and more importantly its current problems that drones might successfully address. And we do this in the context of macro factors that healthcare faces in providing access to clinical services to rural areas. We compare the B2B medical drone delivery business model to that of the B2C consumer delivery and have a lively discussion around which is more likely to become a killer app first. The opinion that the B2B medical drone delivery use case is a promising market opportunity is commonly shared in the industry. However, what is not adequately discussed is exactly how this value will be realized, what matters to hospitals, and what the ultimate product needs to look like to ensure wide adoption. Here’s where Stuart’s insights really stand out. For instance, instead of thinking about drones as part of a transportation system, Stuart believes they should be considered as an extension of the infrastructure, not unlike pneumatic tubes in hospitals today. As usual, we go deep, ask tough questions, and uncover interesting insights not widely shared.
Nov 2, 2023 · 1 hr 7 min
#53 Declan Ryan, Irelandia: The founding of Ryanair, low-cost airlines, lessons for AAM
Welcome back to The Vertical Space for a discussion with Declan Ryan, one of the co-founders of Ryanair and a serial builder of low-cost airlines. With commercial drone operations starting to gain momentum and the contours of future eVTOL operations becoming better understood, it is important to highlight the evolution of the low-cost airline business model and learn the lessons from this market. And we have just the right guest to take a deep dive into this fascinating topic. Dec takes us to the early days of Ryanair: how they viewed the market opportunity, how they chose to compete with legacy airlines, the strategic choices and early pivots, the mistakes along the way…and some very funny moments including negotiating an acquisition with British Airways. More broadly though, we discuss how low-cost airlines make money in a highly commoditized environment, the revenue opportunities, ways to remove cost from operations, and the role of technology in the relentless pursuit of operational excellence. Dec has been in the industry for a long time and what you’ll hear from him is a sober, unfiltered view of the challenges and opportunities that the airline industry is facing, both today and in the near future. Throughout the conversation, we make references to AAM and ways in which the lessons learned in the low-cost airline business might inform eVTOL operations and drone operations at scale. There are many lessons that the AAM industry should embrace, mistakes it should not repeat, and Dec highlights those backing them up with personal experience starting, running, or being involved in a number of airlines around the world. We discuss many other topics such as decarbonizing aviation, supersonic air travel, how startups should pitch airline customers, advice to entrepreneurs, and much more.
Oct 24, 2023 · 1 hr 12 min
#52 Paul Rinaldi, Air Traffic Management: Today's Realities and Tomorrow's Opportunities
Check out a terrific discussion with Paul Rinaldi, President of Rinaldi Consultants and served as President of the National Air Traffic Controllers Association (NATCA). Paul is the voice of today’s reality and tomorrow’s opportunities. In his crystal-clear messaging, he speaks to “the way it is” in air traffic. And by fully understanding the current state of air traffic, he helps to pave a way for opportunities for modernization – from technology that was already approved and purchased many years ago that has yet to be fully implemented, to technology today that could improve our system, to opportunities for tomorrow as we integrate all things into the vertical space. Thanks for joining us Paul! 9:02 Exploring the advantages of privatizing air traffic management 21:00 Current state of air traffic management in the U.S. 33:19 How technology can solve air traffic management pain points 45:13 Integrating new entrants (AAM) into the NAS. Should low-flying drones be segregated or integrated? 59:23 Is air traffic management an appealing opportunity for startups? 1:01:05 Common mistakes entrepreneurs make when selling into the ATM/ATC community 1:06:40 Air traffic controller shortage
Oct 10, 2023 · 1 hr 23 min
#51 Carl Dietrich, Jump Aero: MOSAIC - a transformational opportunity
An in-depth conversation with Carl Dietrich, Founder/CEO/CTO of Jump Aero – as he explains everything you want to know about Jump Aero as well as MOSAIC, the proposed Modernization of Special Airworthiness Certification rule – what Carl considers a transformational opportunity. We start with Carl’s professional arc through aviation from the Terrafugia days to Jump Aero, including involvement with the Part 23 rewrite and ASTM standards. We discuss the history of Light Sport Aircraft: when and why it was introduced and the significance to the GA market. The heart of the discussion is Carl’s context to what led up to the proposed MOSAIC rule. We discuss when MOSAIC was first proposed and why, how it changes the LSA definition, and, very cool, how significant this change could be to the growth of the GA and AAM markets, including to potentially create a faster path to market for certain types of aircraft.
Sep 26, 2023 · 1 hr 4 min
#50 Christiaan Hen, Assaia: AI and aviation's "pit stops"
In this episode we talk about something that has great relevance to traditional aviation, and that will become increasingly important to drone and other AAM concepts as their operations increase in scale and complexity – which is utilization of the most important physical assets in aviation -> aircraft and ground infrastructure. We have the pleasure of doing a deep dive into this interesting topic with Christiaan Hen, Chief Customer Officer at Assaia, a company with the vision to improve safety, efficiency, and capacity of the air transportation system by bringing transparency and order to ground operations. We start the conversation with an analysis of the process of turning aircraft around at airport gates: the different parts of the process, the relevant metrics, the various stakeholders involved, and the limitations of existing methods used to manage the turnaround process and broadly gate management. As the scale of commercial air operations increased over the past several decades, with the corresponding commoditization of air travel, the pressure on the air transportation system to increase efficiency while maintaining safety has never been higher. Add capacity constraints at airports that are responsible for the majority of traffic, labor shortages, and ambitions to decarbonize aviation, and you quickly realize the importance of doing more with less, and to do it more predictably and consistently. Most of our conversation with Chris is about how to achieve that. As we discuss the benefits of Assaia’s solutions to existing aviation stakeholders, we draw parallels to AAM and how this is a market that will require greater transparency and optimization of ground operations – think high density drone operations, but with the benefit of freedom in infrastructure models and technology stacks that are not burdened with outdated legacy IT systems. We also talk about the differences between Europe and North America as it relates to airport operations, state of the market, and willingness to invest in new technologies.
Sep 12, 2023 · 1 hr 20 min
#49 Pete Bunce, GAMA: general aviation's perspective on AAM
Blunt converation with Pete Bunce, President & CEO of the General Aviation Manufacturers Association (GAMA). Pete combines a deep understanding of established aviation as well as advanced air mobility. He introduces competence, regulatory understanding, industry knowledge, and knowing how to get things done. Listen to Pete's vision of aviation and AAM - there's nothing superficial here. As you will see time and again, Pete calls it as he sees it. Pete is a great industry leader. Thanks Pete for joining us on The Vertical Space.
Aug 29, 2023 · 1 hr 3 min
#48 Reflections at the intersection of technology and flight
Today will be a different kind of conversation. We, the hosts of The Vertical Space, provide reflections on the intersection of tech and flight that were the center point of our talk at Honeywell’s 2nd Annual Advanced Air Mobility Summit. We first discuss why we started the podcast and its success (thanks to you) – then Luka provides background on what has driven the need for AAM, then we together discuss the 4 takeaways from conversations with our podcast guests and from our own observations over the last few years. Hope you enjoy.
Aug 14, 2023 · 1 hr 19 min
#47 David Stepanek, Bristow: AAM customer perspective
Today's talk is with David Stepanek – the Executive Vice President and Chief Transformation Officer of Bristow. So where we talk often talk to those building vehicles in AAM – here we have an industry leader who is committed to the opportunities of AAM – is confident that AAM will improve Bristow’s performance, reduce costs, and improve their position with sustainability. David describes how Bristow has the vision and are a leader in innovative and sustainable vertical flight solutions. Listen to what they project will be a meaningful cost reduction of AAM vs. the helicopters they’re operating today – both in reducing up front capital requirements as well as reducing long term operating costs – they believe they can reduce their direct operating costs by 60-70%. He believes Bristow will receive a meaningful return from AAM around 2030 – with a heavier contribution after 2035. He describes how urban air mobility will eventually be successful…it will probably be on a longer timeframe than most are thinking today…that there are a number of risks and challenges most are not considering today…and to scale will be more difficult than it first appears. Listen to the section on where David believes is the most value in AAM – from OEM, to Operator, to MRO, to Infrastructure and Systems – great section…and his impression of where the greater value is may be a surprise to some. As much as David and Bristow are leading their industry with AAM ….he’s also careful, realistic, and pragmatic in his approach – this is not just a cheerleader or a one-sided promoter of AAM – he has and you’ll be listening to a balanced perspective. Many thanks to David for joining us!
Jul 31, 2023 · 1 hr 7 min
#46 Dan Elwell: FAA Reauthorization; "1,500 Hour Rule"; the balance between safety and innovation
This episode marks a first for our podcast – it’s the first time that we recorded an episode in person, and we did it during the Honeywell Aerospace Second Annual Advanced Air Mobility Summit in Washington DC, where the three of us also shared insights on the industry in front of an impressive audience of government and industry leaders. One of the major themes of the Summit was the upcoming FAA Reauthorization, and so in light of that, we sat down with Dan Elwell – who previously served as the Acting FAA Administrator and also its Deputy Administrator – to do a deep dive into the FAA Reauthorization and other important industry topics. We start the conversation with the pilot shortage problem, the structural and cultural forces at play, and how technology can help solve it. The discussion surfaces the currently somewhat controversial topic of the role that simulators play in the “1,500 hour” rule. Listen to why Dan believes pilots should be allowed to accumulate even the entirety of the 1500hrs requirement in modern high tech simulators. Most of our conversation, however, takes us back to the roots and foundational principles of regulating aviation, including an overview of the evolution of the FAA mandate since its founding in 1958. Although not novel, the balance between ensuring safety and promoting the growth of the industry is more important today than it ever was before. We hover on this topic quite a bit and, among other things, draw analogies to how commercial space flights are regulated. Listen to what Dan thinks is one of the most important issues that the FAA needs to figure out, and how what he calls the 737 Max PTSD phenomenon and other factors create a chilling effect on the FAA workforce and their ability to be an effective regulator.
Jul 19, 2023 · 1 hr 7 min
#45 Damon Vander Lind, extending electric range with zero emissions
Welcome to our conversation with Damon Vander Lind, co-founder and CEO of Magpie Aviation, a company enabling long-range flights with zero emissions. Damon and Magpie are offering a solution that is fresh and new – a lot of you will be both fascinated by his vision and at the same time find reasons to challenge his assumptions – and you have to admire his bold approach to the market. Listen to Damon's views on the evolution of advanced air mobility, of electric aviation, and the use-cases being addressed. Damon believes the industry needs solutions that address sustainability and carbon reduction – and that sustainability will become more essential in the years to come. He challenges and gives his perspectives on some of the current hopeful solutions for sustainability, including sustainable aviation fuel (SAF), which many of the airlines are betting on today. There are those who will criticize some of today’s eVTOL companies for overstating the impact of their solution on the environment. With Magpie – and their promise of extended range – they have the opportunity to provide zero-carbon flights to longer range trips. So he’s all-in on sustainability – because customers will be paying a premium for the extended range, as well as some additional tradeoffs – and Magpie is betting the greater value of sustainability will offset the slightly higher price of his proposed solution. So listen to this podcast for a number of reasons, listen: to one of the leading engineers talk about the evolution of the industry; to the different approaches to sustainable aviation and the electrification of the industry; to an informed person’s fresh perspective on AAM and the near-term value eVTOLs; and to Damon’s perspective on his proposed solution with Magpie Aviation. Damon, thanks for joining us!
Jul 5, 2023 · 1 hr 15 min
#44 Thomas Neubauer: cellular connectivity as an enabler of BVLOS operations
Welcome to our conversation with Thomas Neubauer, Co-founder and CEO of Dimetor. We discuss connectivity using cellular networks and the intersection of cellular networks and aviation. Thomas discusses the requirement of having a pilot in command – and that you must have good, reliable digital communication to ensure connectivity – to fulfill this pilot in command requirement. We discuss how BVLOS operations are being enabled via cellular networks. It’s also interesting to hear about the gap between communications service providers and aviation ecosystems – why it’s relevant – and what can be done about it. We go in depth on the strengths, weaknesses, and risks of cellular for command and control – as well as other options that may be available in place of or to complement cellular. Thomas is the architect of Europe’s UTM interface standard – so he discusses the standard and why it was developed. He also discusses how a drone could be considered an IoT device, or Aerial IoT. Finally, we discuss Thomas’ company and product, AirborneRF, the problems they’re addressing, their customers, and how they generate revenue. Thanks for joining The Vertical Space Thomas!
Jun 20, 2023 · 1 hr 8 min
#43 Venkat Viswanathan: batteries and electric aviation
Today we revisit the topic of batteries with Venkat Viswanathan, Associate Professor of Mechanical Engineering at Carnegie Mellon University. As someone who relatively recently started his journey in electric aviation, Venkat is massively inspired by the challenge and opportunity of electrifying aviation. We sat down to discuss why he is optimistic about 1,000 Wh/kg energy density at the battery pack level becoming commercially available in the next 10-15 years, a goal that many of his fellow battery experts find tough to believe. However, this is not a “boring” lesson in battery chemistry. We talked about what it takes to commercialize new battery chemistries and who will carry the burden of funding new R&D to improve battery energy and power densities now that there is no incentive to pursue such efforts by the automotive industry. Listen also how Venkat describes the AND problem, which stands for the challenge for batteries to achieve both high energy density and also high power density, and how hybrid batteries with different chemistries might help solve this challenge. We also talked about the differences between batteries for VTOL vs CTOL aircraft, about the different and sometimes conflicting requirements for different types of aircraft and missions, about innovation in non-destructive diagnostics to figure out power and energy remaining, and also about how generative AI can accelerate the development of new battery chemistries.
Jun 6, 2023 · 1 hr 25 min
#42 Billy Thalheimer, Regent and coastal transportation
Today we introduce the maritime world to AAM - with a conversation with Billy Thalheimer, CEO and Co-Founder of Regent. We’ve been hearing such positive news about Regent – as I’m sure you’ve heard as well. But what makes Regent so darn attractive? They’re not just getting orders for their aircraft – as many are – but they’re getting firm orders. First – Billy makes it clear that Regent is addressing a multi-modal coastal transportation opportunity – with a novel vehicle – the sea glider. Listen to the use-case. The technology. The range with existing battery technologies – and why. But listen to the challenges that others don’t have as well. A terrific conversation around the maritime certification with the Coast Guard and other organizations around the world vs. the FAA and other aviation regulators. They’ve seemingly minimized some of the more obvious risks that others have in AAM – FAA certification, landing infrastructure, air traffic control and congestion, range for electric aviation, size of vehicle and its passenger comfort, and so on. Bill expresses skepticism on whether or not some of the current AAM vehicles will actually hit their projected timelines – given what they said they would accomplish 5 years ago – and what has accomplished since – and the herculean feats, as Billy says, that some of them have to pull off to meet their objectives. Love the gut punches. And, like many of our guests, Billy is thoughtful, smart, visionary and leader. Listen to his advice to other business leaders and innovators, what he learned from working as an intern with Jeff Bezos at Blue Origin, and how he leads his team today. And what technologies he thinks you should be focusing on.
May 23, 2023 · 1 hr 23 min
#41 Brian Yutko, Wisk: demystifying autonomy
Our guest today is Brian Yutko, Chief Executive Officer at Wisk, a California-based advanced air mobility company developing a fully autonomous electric vertical takeoff and landing air taxi. “Demystifying autonomy” is a fitting title for the insightful and fascinating conversation we had with Brian. He thoughtfully argues that autonomous electric flight for small aircraft, the likes of Wisk’s eVTOL, will become a commercial reality much sooner than most people think, only a few years from now. Of course, when making such a bold statement that most would push back on, definitions and details matter, and in the case of Wisk, the concept of operations involves flying on an IFR flight plan in extremely controlled scenarios using very high levels of integrity and assurance in the underlying systems, both on-board and on the ground. Listen to Brian explain the state of technology as well as the systems engineering and product development standing in the way of this ambitious goal. We also discussed a few myths and misconceptions that exist in the industry, namely that the value of autonomy is in eliminating pilot cost, or that the future is either piloted or autonomous. This has been such an insights-packed conversation that it’s tough to summarize it. If you’re interested in autonomous flight, the systems architecture that will support it, certification pathways for autonomous flight, sustainable flight, or just what it’s like to build a business in advanced air mobility – you don’t want to miss this episode.
May 9, 2023 · 53 min
#40 Eric Allison, Joby Aviation: The Sound of Silence
A revealing, important, and meaningful talk with Joby’s Head of Product, Eric Allison. How often do you get a chance to talk to a person of Eric’s experience and background to hear how and why the designed their vehicle the way they did given the anticipated market demand? You’ll hear a common theme throughout the podcast – Eric and Joby’s constant focus on minimizing aircraft noise – which they believe is so important for customer and community acceptance. We also have a good discussion on the overall market and how Joby is bringing the aircraft and the product and service to market, as well as their initial focused customer segment. We discuss certification and the value of a piloted vehicle in the certification process. And we get to hear Eric’s opinion on the future of fully autonomous operations. Our discussion on the cost of operation is important where Joby is developing what they believe to be the right pricing strategies based on demand patterns. We discuss the right price targets that will drive the utilization Joby requires. Eric is an articulate and informed industry leader – he provides a compelling vision for the overall market as well as for Joby. Thanks for joining us Eric!
Apr 24, 2023 · 1 hr 4 min
#39 Chris Kucera, OneSky: UAS Traffic Management
An in-depth discussion on UTM with Chris Kucera, co-founder of OneSky, discussing the fascinating and complex world of UAS traffic management, or UTM. UTM is a rapidly evolving area – it’s done differently throughout the world with various degrees of application and value. Listen to what UTM is, how its formulated, its value, when its needed, and when its not. Those of you who can understand the complexity and value of UTM will not only be better equipped to deploy, realize value from, and invest in UTM providers, but will better operate your OEM and service businesses going forward. Listen to the importance of operators sharing information, including positional and surveillance information – and the integration and synthesis of this information, and how essential this information sharing is to an effective, safe system. Listen to the different types of UTM service providers and how UTM is deployed and by whom – and how they’re deployed in the US and throughout the world, and an important discussion of the EU’s U-space. We cover what data is needed for different parts of the UTM process where Chris explains the data, its source, value, and application. It’s great hearing how OneSky started, it’s unique advantages, and how they expect to provide value and make money in the years to come. We thank Chris for a terrific discussion!
Apr 6, 2023 · 1 hr 1 min
#38 Svilen Rangelov, Dronamics: middle mile cargo drones
Welcome to our conversation with Svilen Rangelov, Co-Founder and CEO of Dronamics, a business with the goal to change how the world moves goods. We start with a discussion around the broader drone/UAS market and then the cargo drone delivery market – including use-cases and early demand, challenges and opportunities, and the overall landscape. Then we talk about Dronamics, the problems they’re solving for customers near and long term with their middle mile solutions. Listen to how Svilen believes they’ll be providing a better and less expensive solution than today’s alternatives, especially with their initial focus on underserved markets. We also discuss his challenges and opportunities and why middle mile vs. last mile solutions, where last mile are where many others are focused. We also discuss their vehicle, the Black Swan, and how they plan to be an OEM, an operator, and manager of droneports. Listen to the really interesting requirements and capabilities of the droneports, the costs and challenges, and how they believe these droneports are an essential part of their competitive advantage and customer value. Svilen also discusses his conversations with logistics companies and their focus on cost. We also discuss his work with European regulators and the regulatory approvals, including for design verification. Many thanks to Svilen and Dronamics for a substantial discussion!
Mar 28, 2023 · 1 hr 10 min
#37 Ryan Riley: Pilot training innovation in USAF and airlines
Today’s topic is the exciting world of pilot training innovation, an area that has become a high priority to militaries and airlines around the world given the pilot shortage that the industry is grappling with. Helping us examine this topic is Ryan Riley, a retired USAF F-16 fighter pilot who most recently led Pilot Training Next, an initiative that leveraged advanced training technologies and learning methods to cut the USAF pilot training in half. Ryan also currently happens to be going through training with a major U.S. airline which we also discuss in our conversation. The USAF is short approximately 2,000 pilots, which is about a third more than its annual theoretical capacity to produce pilots. At the same time, major airlines are accelerating their pilot hiring and are signaling concern about insufficient pilot supply. This has sparked a wave of flight training innovation to solve two major pain points: training time and throughput. Ryan walked us through the current Air Force pilot training pipeline, what prompted urgency to revisit the decade old training formula, what innovations the Air Force experimented with, and what the outcomes were. We talked about the pros and cons of mixed reality and synthetic training, and the importance of student-centric and distributed learning in both military and civil training environments. Naturally, we also discussed the controversial topic of the 1,500 hour rule, the related hours versus competencies dilemma, single pilot operations, and then extrapolated the discussion to autonomous systems, and how novel concepts in flight training might help the industry think through building trust in autonomous wingmen or virtual copilots. And to stay true to our roots, Ryan highlights what remaining pain points exist for innovators to go and solve. Ryan recently retired from the USAF where he flew F-16s, both operationally as a fighter pilot with multiple combat deployments as well as a Thunderbird pilot. In addition to flying, Ryan’s career included a number of leadership roles including deputy division chief 19th Air Force, Chief of Offense at the 613 Air Operations Center, contingency and crisis action planner, Pacific Air Forces lead technology integrator, and most recently Detachment 24 Commander leading Pilot Training Next.
Mar 14, 2023 · 48 min
#36 Robert A. Pearce, NASA, Associate Administrator
How often do you get to have a conversation with Bob Pearce, the Associate Administrator for NASA’s Aeronautics Research Mission Directorate? Well, you do today – and you’ll really enjoy the talk. Bob discusses how NASA synthesizes a picture of the future, in collaboration with thought leaders, and helps to remove the challenges to make that future happen. We take a dive into sustainability, the importance of getting to net zero, and the three strategies to achieving a fully sustainable aviation system. Bob discusses where NASA will and won’t get involved in AAM – including how NASA is helping to facilitate a safe, high density air traffic system. We discuss what drove the creation of the Small Aircraft Transportation System (SATS) 20 plus years ago – why it didn’t work then, but why AAM may work today – including the level of automation we have today and what can evolve in the coming years – including the timeline for potentially fully remote pilots – to increase the level of AAM affordability. We discuss UTM and Sky for All – what it is and NASA’s role and timeline – and again the role of automation given the density of traffic that will be coming. Bob then discusses the sustainable flight demonstrator – why and how it was created it – and the cost-sharing partnership with Boeing – and he also discusses some of the questions that have evolved since that recent announcement. Given Bob’s role with NextGen, we had had to ask about the successes and disappointments of NextGen – and his selection of one standout program. Finally, listen to Bob’s recommendations and advice to innovators. Many thanks to Bob for joining us on The Vertical Space.
Feb 28, 2023 · 1 hr 12 min
#35 Charlton Evans, End State Solutions: cutting through the fog of drone regulations
Our guest today is Charlton Evans, founder and CEO of End State Solutions, a firm focused on certification and airworthiness for drones and other forms of advanced air mobility. Given some of the recent milestones and rumors about drone regulations in the United States, we thought you would appreciate a discussion on the hot topics in FAA drone regulations from a true subject matter expert, whose firm recently helped Matternet receive the industry’s first drone type certification. We covered a lot of ground with Charlton, starting with the first unmanned aircraft type certifications in the restricted category in 2013 and ways in which those operations failed to properly address the needs of the oil&gas industry at the time. We then followed regulatory and industry milestones to present day, discovering along the way the remaining challenges and opportunities facing the drone industry. Charlton assigns responsibility to both the FAA and the industry for the state of commercial drone adoption among enterprises. Since 2013, there have been fewer champions within the FAA doing the heavy lift to tackle advanced air mobility and drive integration of drones into the national airspace system – resulting in a natural bureaucratic filter to innovation at the FAA. At the same time, the industry is still notorious for not coming to the table with fully developed products and concepts of operations. The gap between rigorous safety-centric FAA processes and the spirit of rapid innovation borrowed from the tech world still exists but is definitely closing as both the industry and regulators gain more experience from ongoing projects and initial operations. There is a ton of insights from this deep dive with Charlton, but let us highlight a few: you’ll hear what Charlton means by “any change is a change” or “ there is no certification by obvious”, how the FAA needs to get more comfortable with an appropriate assessment of risk, what three things type certification applicants need to bring to the table, how appropriate the durability & reliability type certification process really is, the black hole of 21.17(b) certification, in what ways drones and Light Sport Aircraft are similar, opportunities for innovation, and of course advice for entrepreneurs. As mentioned, Charlton Evans is the founder and Chief Executive Officer of End State Solutions, a firm focused on certification and airworthiness for AAM, drone delivery, HAPS and RPAS. Charlton was a Harrier Pilot and Tactical Air Controller in the Marine Corps and still flies for business and pleasure as a commercial pilot. Charlton has led several successful civil and military drone certifications as well as historic BVLOS flight operations. Recently End State Solutions assisted with the FAA type certification of the Matternet M2 delivery drone. Charlton also led historic linear infrastructure and disaster response flights with the type certified ScanEagle UAS that resulted in the induction of ScanEagle N202SE into the Smithsonian Institute in 2016. Today End State Solutions is considered a trusted advisor by both industry and FAA, engaged across the spectrum of Type, Production, Operational approvals as well as regulatory affairs – building relationships that build trust and products that are trusted through certification We hope you’ll enjoy the conversation as much as we did!