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The Second Shift

Bryan Jepson, MD, CFP­­® & Aaron Milledge, MBA, CFP® & Doctor Podcast Network

You built the career. You earned the title. Now you're wondering what comes next.
Second Shift is for high achievers at a crossroads - physicians, pilots, executives, founders - who are financially ready to move on but emotionally stuck. Hosts Bryan Jepson (retired ER physician turned financial planner) and Aaron Milledge (fighter pilot turned advisor) interview people who've navigated the transition from identity-defining careers to whatever comes after.
No fluff.
No retirement fantasy.
Just honest conversations about purpose, relevance, and building a life that doesn't depend on a title.

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  • 12 episodes
  • fortnightly
  • Avg 1 hr
  • English

Episodes 12

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  • August 17 · 1 hr 4 min

    Beyond Clinical Medicine: Finding What Comes Next—with Drs Morgan Leafe and Mandy Armitage

    Learn more at: www.nonclinicalphysiciansnetwork.com Sign up for their annual conference: https://www.nonclinicalphysiciansnetwork.com/physician-career-transition-conference Download the Second Shift Blueprint: 2ndshiftpodcast.com Find more physician finance content at bryanjepson.com What happens when the career you worked so hard to build no longer fits the life you want? Drs. Morgan Leafe and Mandy Armitage, co-founders of the Non-Clinical Physicians Network, join me to talk about their own journeys from clinical medicine into careers that ultimately included medical writing, entrepreneurship, career education, and consulting. We explore why physicians often struggle to give themselves permission to consider another path, the value of career coaching and community, and why the best time to explore your options may be before you actually need them. Morgan and Mandy also share some of the opportunities available to physicians outside traditional practice, including medical writing, pharma, utilization management, informatics, health tech, and the rapidly evolving world of AI. We also discuss the financial side of career transition, why replacing your clinical salary isn't always the right benchmark, and how financial independence can give you the freedom to choose work based on meaning and fit rather than income alone. Finally, Morgan and Mandy share resources available through the Non-Clinical Physicians Network and their upcoming in-person conference for physicians exploring careers beyond clinical medicine. Whether you're burned out, approaching retirement, or simply curious about what else might be possible, this conversation is a reminder that becoming a physician doesn't mean you have to do the same thing forever.

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  • #12
    July 30 · 58 min

    Great Leaders Build People, Not Just Teams—with Dr. Michael Fraser, CEO of ACEP

    Useful links: https://www.acep.org/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/mfraserdc1/ bryanjepson.com 2ndshiftpodcast.com What separates great leaders from great performers? Most of us spend our careers learning how to become experts. Far fewer learn how to become leaders. In this episode of The Second Shift, I sit down with Dr. Mike Fraser, CEO of the American College of Emergency Physicians (ACEP), to explore one of the most important career transitions professionals ever make: the shift from individual achievement to developing others. Mike shares lessons from leading national physician organizations, building high-performing teams, and helping professionals navigate career transitions. Along the way, we discuss why relationships matter more than résumés, how to create a culture of ownership, why emergency physicians are uniquely suited for second careers, and how our definition of a wealthy life evolves over time. Whether you're leading a team, considering your next career chapter, or simply trying to build a life of greater purpose, this conversation offers practical wisdom that extends far beyond medicine. In this episode: Why great leaders build people—not just teams The difference between management and leadership How relationships shape career opportunities Lessons on burnout, career longevity, and second shifts Why defining "enough" creates freedom How legacy ultimately becomes more important than achievement

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  • #11
    July 13 · 47 min

    Optionality: The Real Goal of Financial Independence

    Over the first ten episodes of The Second Shift, one lesson has surfaced again and again: financial independence isn't really about retiring early. It's about creating options. In this episode, Bryan and Aaron step back from the interviews to explore one of the biggest themes emerging from their guests' stories. Why do so few financially independent people actually stop working? What changes when money is no longer the primary driver of your decisions? And how can financial independence help you build a career—and a life—that better reflects your values? Along the way, they discuss: • Why optionality may be more valuable than retirement • The difference between freedom and leisure • Lessons from the FIRE movement • How financial independence changes the way you work long before you retire • Why good financial planning should create choices—not just a retirement date Whether you're years away from retirement or simply wondering what's next, this conversation challenges the traditional view of financial independence and offers a more meaningful definition of wealth. Financial independence doesn't buy retirement. It buys the freedom to choose what comes next.

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  • June 26 · 1 hr 8 min

    When Retirement Isn't The End of the Journey

    Connect with Dr. Foltz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/logan-foltz/ or logan@taxsmartmd.com. Or learn more on his website: https://www.taxsmartmd.com/ Link to more episode of the podcast and download the Second Shift Blueprint: 2ndshiftpodcast.com Many physicians dream of the day they become financially independent. But what happens when you finally reach that goal—and discover it's not the finish line you expected? In this episode, I sit down with psychiatrist-turned-tax advisor Dr. Logan Foltz to discuss his unconventional journey out of clinical medicine. After recognizing early in his career that medicine wasn't the right fit, Logan pursued financial independence with the goal of retiring young. But once he stepped away, he realized that freedom alone wasn't enough. Our conversation explores the psychology of career transitions, the challenge of finding purpose after financial independence, and why discovering your second shift is often a process rather than a single decision. We also discuss the importance of alignment, autonomy, networking, entrepreneurship, and learning to define what "enough" really means. Whether you're considering retirement, a career change, or simply wondering what's next, this episode is a reminder that the journey doesn't end when work becomes optional—it often begins there. In this episode, we discuss: Why medicine wasn't the right fit for Logan Discovering financial independence and the FIRE movement Why early retirement wasn't what he expected The importance of purpose after financial independence Transitioning from medicine to financial planning and ultimately tax advising Why physicians often struggle with entrepreneurship The role of autonomy in career satisfaction Learning to define what "enough" really means If you enjoy these conversations, please subscribe, leave a review, and share the podcast with someone who may be preparing for their own second shift.

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  • June 9 · 59 min

    Rich in Purpose: Dr. Marvin Wayne on Reinvention, Taking Risks, and Living Life to the Fullest

    Connect with Dr. Wayne: linkedin.com/in/marvin-wayne-a8a0218 Listen to more episodes or download the Second Shift Blueprint: https://2ndshiftpodcast.com What does it really mean to live a rich life? In this episode of The Second Shift, I sit down with Dr. Marvin Wayne—a trauma surgeon, Vietnam veteran, emergency physician, EMS pioneer, entrepreneur, inventor, and lifelong learner whose career has been defined by continual reinvention. At more than 80 years old, Marv shares the lessons he's learned from a lifetime of taking risks, embracing change, and refusing to let retirement mean slowing down. We discuss why purpose matters more than money, how curiosity can keep you engaged for life, and why the most meaningful measure of success isn't found in your bank account but in the impact you have on others. Whether you're approaching retirement, considering a career transition, or simply wondering what comes next, this conversation is packed with wisdom and inspiration. In this episode, you'll learn: Why retirement should be about purpose, not stopping How taking calculated risks can lead to extraordinary opportunities The importance of continually reinventing yourself Why relationships and contribution define true wealth How to stay engaged and fulfilled through every stage of life If you enjoy conversations about retirement, purpose, and designing a meaningful next chapter, be sure to subscribe to The Second Shift for more inspiring stories from people who have successfully navigated life's biggest transitions.

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  • #8
    May 25 · 1 hr 5 min

    When Retirement Takes an Unexpected Turn: Dr. Fred Dennis on Reinvention and Meaning

    To connect with Dr. Dennis: https://www.linkedin.com/in/frederickdennis/ Interested in more episodes like this? https://2ndshiftpodcast.com Dr. Fred Dennis has spent a lifetime reinventing himself. From rural general practice in Canada to emergency medicine leadership in California, his career evolved through curiosity, relationships, and a willingness to say yes to unexpected opportunities. In this episode of The Second Shift Podcast, Dr. Dennis reflects on decades in medicine, healthcare leadership, business, and mentorship. He shares lessons about career adaptability, professional relationships, physician identity, and the importance of creating opportunities beyond clinical medicine. But this conversation goes much deeper than career transitions. Fred opens up about how an unexpected health crisis involving his wife completely changed his vision of retirement and forced him to rethink purpose, caregiving, and what truly matters in life. He discusses the emotional reality of reinvention after medicine, the importance of family and support systems, and why financial independence creates the freedom to adapt when life does not go according to plan. Throughout the conversation, Fred offers wisdom earned through decades of medicine, leadership, caregiving, and personal adversity. His message is ultimately one of resilience, purpose, and living fully while you still can. In This Episode Why relationships often matter more than career planning How saying “yes” created unexpected career opportunities The value of side gigs and developing skills outside medicine Transitioning from clinical medicine into leadership and administration Why physicians should build identity beyond the white coat Financial independence and career optionality Navigating caregiving, health crises, and unexpected life changes Reinventing retirement after personal adversity Why “true wealth” has little to do with money

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  • S1 · E7
    May 6 · 44 min

    Before You Retire: 5 Questions Every High Achiever Must Answer | The Second Shift Blueprint

    You built the career. You hit the milestones. You did everything you were supposed to do. So why does it still feel like something is missing? In this episode of The Second Shift Podcast, it’s just the two of us—no guest—introducing something we’ve been building behind the scenes: The Second Shift Blueprint. This free framework is designed for high achievers navigating major life transitions—retirement, career changes, stepping away from medicine, entrepreneurship, or simply asking what comes next. We break down the 5 essential conversations every couple should have before making a major life transition: Timeline – When should this transition happen? Identity – Who are you without your career? Money – What does “enough” actually look like? Time – What will daily life really look like? Support – What do you each need to make this work? Most people think retirement is a financial decision. It’s not. It’s an identity decision. A relationship decision. A purpose decision. This episode is about asking better questions before you make your next move. Download the free Second Shift Blueprint PDF here: https://targetedwealthsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/The_Second_Shift_Blueprint.pdf Want help working through it? We also offer an optional Second Shift Strategy Call to help you think through your own transition. No pitch. No pressure. Just clarity. More information at 2ndshiftpodcast.com If you're a physician, executive, entrepreneur, or high performer wondering what comes after success—this episode is for you. 🎙 Subscribe for more conversations on purpose, financial independence, and life after high-performance careers. #RetirementPlanning #CareerTransition #FinancialIndependence #PhysicianRetirement #SecondShift #PurposeAfterRetirement #LifeAfterMedicine #RetirementPodcast #FinancialPlanning #IdentityShift

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  • S1 · E6
    April 21 · 1 hr 9 min

    "From Physician to Freedom: Designing a Life after Medicine"

    Learn more about Steve Jepson and slow travel: www.thethoroughtripper.com Find previous episodes of our podcast: 2ndshiftpodcast.com In this episode, we explore what life after medicine can actually look like -- beyond the traditional path. Our guest today is Steven Jepson MD, a retired physician who started in internal medicine, made a mid-career pivot into a cash-based aesthetic medicine practice, and ultimately stepped away from medicine completely in his late 50s. Today, he spends his time traveling the world with his wife -- designing each trip with intention, curiosity, and a practical approach to spending. But this isn’t a story about luxury or excess. It’s about building a life that aligns with your values. We talk about: Why he left traditional medicine The decision to pivot into a cash-based practice How he built and exited his business What retirement actually looks like on the other side His philosophy on travel, money, and “experiencing the soul of a place” And what physicians often get wrong about retirement This is a conversation about what “true wealth” can look like in real life -- when you align your time, money, and priorities. If you’re a physician or high-achiever thinking about your long-term path, or wondering what comes after your identity-defining career, this episode offers a grounded, practical perspective. If you found this helpful, subscribe for more conversations on financial clarity, intentional living, and designing a life beyond the job title.

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  • S1 · E5
    April 8 · 1 hr 8 min

    "When the Doctor Becomes the Patient"

    Episode Overview Dr. Peter Crane is a rural family physician in Idaho, host of Doctors Making a Difference, and a cancer survivor still actively practicing medicine while undergoing treatment. In this conversation, he reflects on the unusual path that brought him back to his hometown to replace the physician who delivered him, the unique demands and rewards of rural medicine, and what it means to care for a community where your patients are also your neighbors, friends, and fellow parents. The conversation takes a deeper turn as Peter shares the story of discovering a 26-centimeter sarcoma and navigating life as both physician and patient. He talks candidly about continuing to work through radiation and treatment, the support he received from colleagues who stepped in when he could not, and how his diagnosis sharpened his perspective on time, family, burnout, and purpose. Throughout the episode, Peter offers a thoughtful defense of medicine as a calling worth protecting, even in a system that often seems built to drain joy from the people inside it. This is a conversation about service, identity, resilience, and the difference between making a living and making a life. What We Cover Returning home to practice in the same office as the doctor who delivered him Why rural family medicine offers both extraordinary purpose and extraordinary pressure The emotional complexity of treating people you know personally Discovering a rare cancer diagnosis in the middle of a shift How becoming a patient changed Peter’s perspective as a physician Burnout, meaning, and why relationships still anchor a sustainable medical career How his podcast grew out of gratitude, reflection, and a desire to highlight doctors doing meaningful work What serious illness teaches about time, priorities, and not postponing life

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  • S1 · E4
    March 25 · 1 hr 5 min

    "Too Dumb to Quit"

    John Shufeldt School of Medicine and Medical Engineering: https://medicine.asu.edu/ Xcellerant Ventures: https://www.xcellerantventures.com/ Summary Dr. John Shufeldt - ER doc, serial entrepreneur, and namesake of ASU's new medical school - talks about building companies while never leaving the exam room. From selling a helicopter to make payroll to discovering a patient's CPAP was useless without electricity, John traces a career defined by stacking identities rather than trading them. The conversation moves from startup mechanics into harder territory: healthcare disparity on tribal lands, the system's betrayal of its own physicians, and why he chose "kind" as his legacy over everything else on his CV. Deep Takeaways The "And" Is the Strategy. John credits his longevity to never being only a physician. The second identity - entrepreneur, student, investor - wasn't a distraction. It was the pressure valve that kept medicine sustainable for 30+ years. Grit Narratives Can Be Misleading. John says "too dumb to quit," but his behavior - pivoting business models, reading markets, evaluating founders with nuance - tells a different story. The hosts catch this in the debrief: the most strategic people often credit persistence because they genuinely believe it mattered more. They might be wrong. Shame, Not Ambition, Built Tribal Health. The electricity story isn't just an anecdote, it's the fracture point. John wasn't driven to tribal medicine by opportunity. He was driven by embarrassment at his own ignorance of conditions he compares to below the third world, inside the United States. The Relational Cost Goes Unexamined. No salary for years, triple-mortgaged house, sleep deprivation. John frames it with humor. But the hosts acknowledge what the interview didn't reach: it would be rare to sustain this pace without significant personal sacrifice that never made the highlight reel. Kindness as Radical Legacy. Asked how he wants to be remembered, John skips the résumé and says "kind." The unresolved tension: can relentless ambition and consistent kindness coexist, or does one inevitably erode the other? Chapters [00:00] Cold open & guest introduction [03:56] "Stay Hungry, Stay Humble" - origin of the tagline [05:12] Entrepreneurial beginnings - candles at 14 to gaps in urgent care [06:36] Building NextCare - one clinic to 60 locations [09:18] Going solo after co-founders left [11:25] Build, sell, or invest - why he chose VC [13:30] NextCare exit and launching MeMD [14:44] Selling MeMD to Walmart [17:00] Tribal health epiphany - CPAP machine, no electricity [23:25] ER worldview: gratitude recalibrated [24:00] Accelerant Ventures & physician moral injury [26:01] The "and" that prevented burnout [28:35] "I was born to be a doctor" [31:56] Advice for physician-entrepreneurs [35:32] ASU's medical school for physician-engineers [39:05] Legacy: "Someone who was kind" [42:50] The Reckoning - rapid-fire questions [45:25] "Be too dumb to quit" - final words [47:03] Host debrief - ambition vs. relational cost

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  • S1 · E3
    March 3 · 1 hr 1 min

    "Staying Relevant After You Hang Up the Coat"

    www.NaloxoneProject.com For ACEP members interested in Exploring Retirement, Log into www.ACEP.org Http://engaged.acep.org/main/groups/137305/lounge (to get to the engaged member platform) For more about us: www.targetedwealthsolutions.com In this episode of the Second Shift podcast, hosts Bryan Jepson and Aaron Milledge welcome Dr. Stephen Anderson, a retired emergency medicine physician, to discuss his extensive career, community advocacy, and the transition to retirement. Dr. Anderson shares insights on the importance of staying relevant after retirement, the impact of personal tragedy on advocacy work, and the significance of prioritizing family and personal fulfillment. The conversation also touches on the Naloxone Project, financial planning for retirement, and the challenges of burnout in the medical profession. Takeaways Showing up consistently is one of the most impactful things a physician can do for their community. Emergency medicine physicians are uniquely positioned to advocate for systemic change beyond the bedside. Taking on meaningful projects outside of clinical work can be a powerful antidote to burnout. A gradual "glide path" into retirement tends to produce a smoother and more satisfying transition than a hard stop. The Naloxone Project works to get life-saving medication directly into the hands of at-risk community members. Retirement doesn't have to mean stepping away from impact -- it can mean redirecting your expertise in new directions. Strong financial planning gives retirees the freedom to pursue purpose rather than working out of necessity. Designing life after a career around family and personal fulfillment leads to greater long-term satisfaction. Personal loss and tragedy can become powerful catalysts for advocacy and community work. Building a supportive peer network makes the emotional and practical challenges of retirement far more manageable.

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  • S1 · E1
    March 3 · 56 min

    "What No One Tells You About Leaving"

    Learn more about us: www.targetedwealthsolutions.com The Second Shift In this inaugural episode of the Second Shift podcast, hosts Bryan Jepson and Aaron Milledge explore the concept of career transitions, particularly for high achievers. They share personal stories, including Bryan's journey from emergency medicine to financial planning, and discuss the emotional and financial challenges faced during these transitions. The conversation delves into the impact of personal experiences, such as parenting a child with autism, on professional choices and identity. The hosts emphasize the importance of creating options and planning for a fulfilling future, while also addressing the fears and guilt associated with leaving a long-held career. This episode sets the stage for future discussions on navigating life's inevitable changes and finding meaning in new paths. Takeaways High achievers often wait too long to leave their careers. Personal experiences can significantly influence career transitions. It's important to create options before reaching a breaking point. The emotional toll of medicine can lead to burnout. Reinventing one's identity after leaving a profession is challenging but necessary. Financial planning can provide a sense of security during career changes. Understanding personal motivations is key to making career decisions. The journey of transitioning careers is unique for everyone. Empathy and personal experience can enhance professional practice. Planning for the future is essential for a fulfilling life.

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