The Return: Property & Investment Podcast

Anna Clare Harper

The Return is a podcast for property investors and developers who want to get UK housing deals done, even in a tough market.

Getting homes built is harder than ever. Planning delays, rising construction costs, funding gaps and shifting market conditions stop most projects before they start.

Learn from investors, developers and policymakers discussing what's happening in the UK housing market right now and how to learn from their experience.

Each episode features a real life case study or topic including: planning reform, policy shifts, funding conditions, deal viability, sales, delivery challenges and measuring impact.

Hosted by Anna Clare Harper, Director at Pinnacle Investments and author of three best-selling books on residential investing. Her mission is to help mobilise capital to drive the delivery of 10,000 more, better homes by 2030.

Join 350,000+ listeners learning how to build, fund and deliver more, better UK housing deals.

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20 episodes
Updated Thursday

Episodes20

Newest first

Thursday · 6 min
What I’ve Been Secretly Building For the Last 12 Months
Send us a Text There are currently 728,000 people working across real estate in the UK. And yet, just 2% of real estate funds are managed by women. This, despite the fact that most firms are actively trying. And, the data shows that diverse leadership creates better commercial outcomes. So why the gap? I’ve spent the past year having quiet, off the record conversations with women throughout the industry, and I kept hearing the same 3 things: Lack of role models - you can’t be what you can’t see, so imbalance creates more imbalance Isolation - when you’re the only woman in your firm and you feel disconnected, you feel less good and frankly, in a people business, you will be way less effective Unique challenges that it’s possible to overcome with the right support/training - from balance and boundaries to redesigning your career in a slow market - women in this sector need specific advice The thing that broke my heart about these conversations was the fact that so many of these highly talented, high achieving women were looking at their escape plans from an industry that really needs them. So we decided to run an experiment. We wondered if we could bring a small group of these women together and get them to define the specific problems and frustrations they were facing… Maybe, together, we could solve them. And thus, Lead As You Are, a leadership programme created by and for women at Director level in real estate investment, was born. After 12 months, the first cohort has now wrapped, featuring women from firms including Legal & General, Patron Capital, Tristan Capital Partners and Pinnacle Investments. The response told us this needed to go further. We were massively oversubscribed for the second and third cohorts. And lots of people expressed interest who aren’t in London. So we decided to launch a Lead As You Are podcast series - conversations with the members, helpers, and incredible guest speakers - like Dame Allison Nimmo and Jenny Buck. In the first (mini) episode of the series, we dig into three things that stuck with us from the first cohort and where we’re going from here. Tag anyone who might enjoy this, or who should be involved with the programme. Host LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annaclareharper/ LAYA LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/lead-as-you-are/
July 2 · 20 min
Is Affordable Housing the star of the real estate investment landscape now?
Send us a Text £39 billion is going into UK affordable housing. Sounds like a lot. But in practice, the estimated need is 145,000 affordable homes per year. This programme could deliver 30,000. That gap is the opportunity for investors. The default structure of investments has changed. It’s no longer just: → debt + government grant It’s now: → debt + equity + grant Private capital isn’t optional. It’s essential. In our latest podcast episode, we cover: Who is positioned to deliver at scale The return profile for Affordable Housing How entry barriers create a competitive advantage Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-german-2437573b/ Host LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annaclareharper/
June 4 · 22 min
Is Purpose Built Student Accommodation still worth it?
Send us a Text The share price of the biggest student accommodation provider fell 43% in 12 months - suggesting that confidence in the sector is starting to crack. But in the same period, £4.3 billion was invested into UK Purpose-Built Student Accommodation. So which number is telling the truth? Anna Clare Harper, Director at residential investment manager Pinnacle Investments (part of Hyde, one of the UK's largest Housing Associations with 125,000 homes), and John German, Head of Living Sector Investment at $2tr global investment platform Invesco, break down: Why the old playbook for making money in student accommodation no longer works Where demand is actually going - the headline numbers hide a lot - and which university towns to avoid How core, core-plus and value-add investors should be positioning right now PBSA has not broken. It has grown up. And the investors who understand the difference will be the ones who outperform the next cycle. Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-german-2437573b/ Host LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annaclareharper/
May 7 · 33 min
Is Build to Rent dead?
Send us a Text Build-to-Rent was meant to fix Britain’s housing crisis. Then everything changed: Interest rates rose. Build costs jumped. New regulations hit. And suddenly, the pipeline slowed. That’s when Single-Family Housing stepped in. In just 3 years, investment grew from £544M to £3.17B. So what’s really happening here? A long-term shift… or investors chasing the next shiny trend? If you’re investing in UK residential, you’re probably flooded with data. What’s harder to find is clear thinking on what it actually means. That’s what this episode is about. Anna Clare Harper, Director at residential investment manager Pinnacle Investments (part of Hyde, one the UK’s largest Housing Associations with 125,000 homes) stand John German, Head of Living Sector Investment at $2tr global investment platform, Invesco, break down: – What BTR and SFH really look like today – Where the money is going (and why) – How regulation is quietly reshaping the market And most importantly: Where to play, what to avoid, and what’s working right now. If this is useful, share it with someone thinking about UK living sector investment. And if there’s a topic you want us to cover next, send it through via the show notes. Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-german-2437573b/ Host LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annaclareharper/
April 9 · 3 min
Quick Update
Send us a Text The Return - Format Update A quick note from Anna on what is changing and why. After putting a question out to listeners on LinkedIn, a few clear themes came back - so we’re making changes. From next month, The Return becomes a monthly, research-led series. Each episode will distill the key insights around a sector, strategy or market shift - anchored in reports and data from leading advisers - and unpacked in terms of what it actually means for investors. Anna is also bringing on an experienced co-host: a real estate investor with 35 years in the sector. The goal is more clarity, with lower lift. Next episode: out next month.
March 26 · 21 min
From £310k Bingo Hall to £2.3M Homes
Send us a Text Most property developments run late, over budget, or both. Not because developers are lazy. Because they’re running projects without systems. Anjuim Moied approached development differently. Before property, he ran businesses. So when he started developing sites, he treated them the same way: With systems. → A clearly mapped critical path → Project management databases → Software tracking every pound spent in real time Then he bought a derelict bingo hall in Woolston (Southampton). It had: → Lapsed planning → Heritage constraints → Complex foundations Many walked away (including the previous owner). Anjuim turned it into 10 flats + a dance studio. → £310k purchase → £1.3m build → £2.3m asset 43% return. On time. On budget. In this episode he breaks down the systems he used to deliver this project - and three other ~£2m developments. We’re also joined by Ben Mackett from Lloyds Banking Group, who finances developments every year and shares: → The warning signs lenders look for → Where developers’ forecasts usually go wrong → What separates developers who deliver from those who don’t If you’re building housing, this episode will change how you run your projects. This episode is in association with (and thanks to) Lloyds: https://www.lloydsbank.com/business/industry-expertise/real-estate.html?utm_source=The+Return&utm_medium=podcast+partnership&utm_campaign=sponsored+episode Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-mackett-19709184/ Host LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annaclareharper/
March 12 · 20 min
Aviva: Funding Stalled Housing Deals
Send us a Text If you're a developer trying to get homes built right now, you're stuck between two impossible choices: Pay what the landowner needs and lose money on the build. Or offer what the numbers say you can afford - and watch the deal die. Traditional deals are stalling everywhere. Finance and build costs are too high, sales are too slow, and the gap between what a developer can afford to pay for land - and what the landowner will accept - has become a chasm. But developers still want to build profitably, lenders and investors still want to back them, landowners still want to unlock value, and everyone agrees we desperately need more homes. Maybe the problem isn't a lack of motivation - it's that the traditional deal structure is outdated. What if the answer isn't trying to find a motivated seller who can offer cheaper land, or waiting for rates to drop - but structuring the deal itself completely differently, and working with the right kind of investors? In this episode, we're breaking down exactly how to do that, using a real case study of a deal that looked impossible on paper - a car park in Barnet owned by the Local Authority - but it got funded and is getting built anyway - with Sophie White, Regeneration Sector Head at Aviva Capital Partners, and James Scott, Co-founder and COO at Stories. This episode is in association with (and thanks to) Lloyds: https://www.lloydsbank.com/business/industry-expertise/real-estate.html?utm_source=The+Return&utm_medium=podcast+partnership&utm_campaign=sponsored+episode Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jmscott2/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/sophie-white-89378a30/ Host LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annaclareharper/
February 26 · 25 min
Former Housing Minister: Policy Insights for Investors
Send us a Text I just interviewed a Former Housing Minister And he didn’t hold back. UK housing policy generates headlines daily. For serious UK housing investors and developers, the challenge isn’t keeping up with announcements. It’s knowing which policy signals genuinely matter over the next five to ten years. Lord Gavin Barwell joined the podcast to cut through the noise around UK housing policy, including: → How planning reform is really playing out And why sentiment and affordability matter just as much as policy → The delivery gap: why policy failure is often local And how investors and developers can influence outcomes in practice → Why mainstream housing headlines rarely help investors And how to filter signal from political froth. If you’re investing in, underwriting or developing UK housing with a long-term horizon - and want to stay ahead of political noise - this episode is worth your time. This episode is in association with (and thanks to) Lloyds. https://www.lloydsbank.com/business/industry-expertise/real-estate.html?utm_source=The+Return&utm_medium=podcast+partnership&utm_campaign=sponsored+episode Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gavinbarwell/ Host LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annaclareharper/
February 12 · 18 min
Hyde CEO: How Housing Partnerships Really Work
Send us a Text I had to be on my best behaviour for this - interviewing my boss. Andy Hulme is CEO of The Hyde Group One of the largest UK Housing Associations With 125,000 homes (Also my employer) He’s also a former Group MD at Lloyds Where he helped launch Help to Buy. No pressure, then. We covered: - What public-private housing partnerships actually are - Why housing partnerships fail - despite the best intentions - The 3 biggest mistakes (and how to avoid them) - Why “if you're reading the contract, you’re already in trouble.” If you're a developer, investor, housing provider or local authority trying to deliver more homes through partnerships, this episode is a must-listen. This episode is in association with (and thanks to) Lloyds. https://www.lloydsbank.com/business/industry-expertise/real-estate.html?utm_source=The+Return&utm_medium=podcast+partnership&utm_campaign=sponsored+episode Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andy-hulme-b9830a23/ Host LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annaclareharper/
January 29 · 19 min
5 Things Bankable Developers Do
Send us a Text Even if the land was free, many property deals don’t stack. Zombie pricing. Rising costs. More regulations. I asked Nicola Haigh, Head of Real Estate & Housing, Lloyds. Who’s served 10,000+ real estate borrowers. How can developers survive and thrive in the 2020s? She shared 5 things bankable developers Lloyds work with do, including: 1. Keep a cash buffer → Don’t borrow the max. 2. Track cash flow weekly → Avoid nasty surprises. 3. Plan multiple exits → Sell some, hold some. Listen in to hear what banks really want to see from developers right now. This episode is in association with (and thanks to) Lloyds. In association with: https://www.lloydsbank.com/business/industry-expertise/real-estate.html?utm_source=The+Return&utm_medium=podcast+partnership&utm_campaign=sponsored+episode Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicola-haigh-55941a56/ Host LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annaclareharper/
January 15 · 22 min
What Works in Supported Housing - with Lloyds Bank
Send us a Text Solving the housing crisis isn’t just about building more. It’s about the right homes, in the right places, for the people who need them most. The sharpest edge of that challenge? Supported housing - for people with learning and physical disabilities, mental health needs and other vulnerabilities. It’s vital - but complex. It demands real care. And let’s be honest: some players are cutting corners. This week on the podcast, we covered what actually works for providers who want to grow without compromising on safety, standards or support. My guests: John Verge – CEO of Golden Lane Housing, Chair of the Learning Disability and Autism Housing Network Nigel Walker – Head of Social and Supported Housing at Lloyds Bank We cover: → How to grow when you have a tiny team (and what to say no to) → What funders really look for - and the common mistakes that block investment → The biggest missed opportunity: turning empty shops and offices into Supported Living → How supported housing can save the public £850M+ each year → Real examples of deals that worked - and how others can do the same This episode is for: → Housing providers juggling more rules, upgrades and urgent need → Developers wondering if supported housing is worth exploring → Councils under pressure to meet growing demand → Investors looking to make a difference and a return P.S. Know someone in housing, investment or the public sector who needs to hear this? Tag them below. This episode is in association with (and thanks to) Lloyds. In association with: https://www.lloydsbank.com/business/industry-expertise/real-estate.html?utm_source=The+Return&utm_medium=podcast+partnership&utm_campaign=sponsored+episode Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnverge/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/nigel-walker-85225886/ Host LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annaclareharper/
January 1 · 20 min
Zoopla Exec: Where to Buy, Upgrade or Sell in 2026
Send us a Text I loved recording a no-fluff episode of The Return With Richard Donnell at Zoopla (Source of the best insights in the industry.) The headline? → Stop investing like it’s 2021. → Start investing like it’s 2026. We covered what 2025 changes mean for 2026 investors. Then discussed 2026 ‘must-dos’, including: Re-underwrite your portfolio. Assume “normal” rent growth (2-3%). Stress test higher compliance and running costs. Face the London maths. If you want income, be honest. London can work - but mainly as value-add, or very long term. Go where the spread works. Follow yield, not headlines. (We discussed regional cities like Glasgow, Derby.) Decide your stance early. Buy / Build / Upgrade / Sell. Commit to scaling or shrinking. Act like an operator. Sell liability-heavy stock early. Buy only where pricing reflects the cost of capital. This episode is in association with (and thanks to) Lloyds. In association with: https://www.lloydsbank.com/business/industry-expertise/real-estate.html?utm_source=The+Return&utm_medium=podcast+partnership&utm_campaign=sponsored+episode Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-donnell/ Host LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annaclareharper/
Dec 18, 2025 · 22 min
University of Cambridge Professor Colin Lizieri: Smarter Investment Decisions
Send us a Text 99% of real estate investors say the model tells the truth. But in practice, the data is messy. And the herd is loud. 3 weeks ago, I got to interview a real estate finance hero of mine: Colin Lizieri - Professor of Real Estate Finance At the university of Cambridge. And a global authority on how markets really price risk. In 20 minutes, we dug into: → Signal vs noise Why real estate data is so unreliable And quick checks to make sure your assumptions actually stack. → Herd-driven mispricing Real examples - pre-GFC, life sciences, “new paradigm” stories And how to tell if you’re investing on evidence or FOMO. → Bias in ICs How strong personalities bend models And simple fixes: written views before IC, a named devil’s advocate, And backtesting deals where you overruled the numbers. If you’re an institution or serious SME trying to avoid buying at the wrong price / wrong time this one’s worth a listen - link below. This episode is in association with (and thanks to) Lloyds. In association with: https://www.lloydsbank.com/business/industry-expertise/real-estate.html?utm_source=The+Return&utm_medium=podcast+partnership&utm_campaign=sponsored+episode Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colin-lizieri-996694214/ Host LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annaclareharper/
Dec 4, 2025 · 23 min
How property developers make deals stack in the 2020s
Send us a Text Most housing schemes don’t stack in this market. Those that do get three things right. On the latest episode of The Return, Andy Garnett (CEO, Breck Homes) and Dale Parkinson (Lloyds Bank) shared what they’re seeing on schemes that actually work: - Buy smart - not late Secure land before planning (e.g. through options), or buy at a genuine discount when the timing is right (e.g. around budget changes) (For 20–30% margins vs <10% if you pay full “with planning” market price.) - Do more work upfront The best developers front-load the effort: constraints and layout, valuation feedback, historic issues, flood risk, plus sensitivities (rates, delays, costs). (All before the offer, to protect margins and avoid surprises later.) - Move fast and stand by your number In a slow market, sellers value certainty over a slightly higher price We also covered: - Why relying on a single scheme is a silent killer for developers - Where the best opportunities of this cycle might be Huge thanks to Andy and Dale for a rare, candid conversation - full of ideas you can apply tomorrow, not theory. Listen via link in comments This episode is in association with (and thanks to) Lloyds. In association with: https://www.lloydsbank.com/business/industry-expertise/real-estate.html?utm_source=The+Return&utm_medium=podcast+partnership&utm_campaign=sponsored+episode Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andy-garnett-b8308414/ Host LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annaclareharper/
Nov 20, 2025 · 32 min
How to deliver 1,000 homes per day with Alex Notay (repeat)
Send us a Text It’s hard to make housing developments stack in today’s market. Build costs are up Policies are changing Planning is a dragging. So I asked Alex Notay - Chair of the Radix Big Tent Housing Commission and one of the most respected strategic voices in UK housing - what it really takes to deliver 1,000 homes per day. She shared the big lessons on the podcast, including: Treat housing as national infrastructure - not just a market product. Planning + policy + funding must operate as one ecosystem. Solve for delivery capability, not just land and capital. Communication matters - complexity without clarity kills momentum. The biggest risk in the sector? Unintended consequences from siloed decisions. If you’re trying to develop or retrofit UK housing over the next 2–5 years, this conversation is a powerful scene-setter - first published almost a year ago. Listen in. This episode is in association with (and thanks to) Lloyds. In association with: https://www.lloydsbank.com/business/industry-expertise/real-estate.html?utm_source=The+Return&utm_medium=podcast+partnership&utm_campaign=sponsored+episode Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandranotayparr/ Host LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annaclareharper/
Nov 6, 2025 · 21 min
Former Homes England CEO Peter Denton CBE: How to get funded
Send us a Text People say the housing market is broken. Homes England aims to fix it. It touches 1 in 4 new homes. I spoke to ex-CEO Peter Denton CBE. About how developers and housing providers Use Homes England support to build more homes. We covered: - What it is. Who it serves. How it helps. (From grants to Compulsory Purchase powers.) - How to frame your ask for success. (Lead with the market failure you’ll unlock.) - How to avoid common mistakes. (Respect procurement and social impact metrics. Don’t ‘goal-seek’ viability after overpaying for land.) This episode is in association with (and thanks to) Lloyds. In association with: https://www.lloydsbank.com/business/industry-expertise/real-estate.html?utm_source=The+Return&utm_medium=podcast+partnership&utm_campaign=sponsored+episode Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterdenton71/ Host LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annaclareharper/
Oct 23, 2025 · 18 min
'How I scale Real Estate Businesses' - Ex-COO of Bidwells
Send us a Text It's hard to scale in real estate Without a big budget, expensive team or endless meetings. I asked Kelly Bream A multi-time founder and ex-COO, Bidwells How she has grown multiple real estate businesses from local to national. She shared the playbook for local to national growth on the podcast, including: - People > platforms first. Hire complements (e.g. brand/marketing), not clones. - Standardise the boring; localise the value. Central compliance/process. Local nuance + relationships. - What and where, before how. Win work before the tooling is perfect. - Measure what matters early. Lead conversion, cash runway - not vanity metrics. This episode is in association with (and thanks to) Lloyds. In association with: https://www.lloydsbank.com/business/industry-expertise/real-estate.html?utm_source=The+Return&utm_medium=podcast+partnership&utm_campaign=sponsored+episode Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelly-bream-5b4aa541/ Host LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annaclareharper/
Oct 9, 2025 · 20 min
MD at £50bn Insurer: How I Invest
Send us a Text Anna Clare Harper is joined by Hayley Rees, Managing Director at £50bn+ Pension Insurance Corporation. In Anna’s words: There’s lots of advice for private investors. Almost nothing on how big institutions back UK housing. Yet it’s a major growth area. So I asked Hayley (MD at £50bn+ insurer PIC) what actually works. We covered: How to choose investments: Compare returns to UK government bonds (gilts). Avoid 10 year projects, as there’s a lot of competition for 10 year money. Look for ‘relative value’ - extra returns over 20-30 years. How to structure deals: Set them up to pay steady, long-term income that matches pension promises. Case study – Miller’s Quay: A simple lease helped unlock 500 homes. Fix viability first: The hardest thing today is making the numbers work before you start. Teams who solve this win. Listen for lessons from £14bn+ invested across UK housing. In association with: https://www.ukreiif.com/ Guest website: https://www.pensioncorporation.com/ Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hayleyrees1/?originalSubdomain=uk Host LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annaclareharper/
Sep 25, 2025 · 21 min
What next for UK rentals?
Send us a Text Richard Donnell, Executive Director at Zoopla joined Anna Clare Harper to share what the latest rental market data means for investors, and how to underwrite real estate deals with the right rent growth assumptions. Topics include: Rent growth has slowed - why and what next for UK rentals Underwriting rents to earnings, not history or inflation The most invest-able places (and EPC grades) Renters Rights Bill opportunities and risks We also covered what strategy Richard would invest in With the benefit of market-leading data: “I’d put £100m into mid-market second-hand homes Near cities in the Midlands and North.” Thanks to Alto Software Group, sponsors of this mini-series Sponsor offer: bit.ly/offer-alto Guest website: zoopla.co.uk Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-donnell/ Host LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annaclareharper/ Host website: annaclareharper.com
Sep 11, 2025 · 20 min
£50m Real Estate CEO: Growth in 2025
Send us a Text Riccardo Ianucci-Dawson, CEO of £50m Annual Recurring Revenue (ARR) Alto Software Group, joined Anna Clare Harper for this episode. It’s hard to get real estate deals done in 2025. With caution, fall-throughs and zombie pricing. So some smart investors are buying real estate businesses. Not just assets. @Riccardo Ianucci-Dawson is CEO of Alto A £50m ARR estate agency CRM powering 25,000 agents. We discussed: How smart investors are growing in 2025 Top leadership lessons from raising a daughter with autism What he has learned scaling and selling 3 businesses before age 35. P.S. Thanks to Alto, sponsors of this mini-series of The Return. Guest website: https://www.altosoftware.co.uk/ // bit.ly/offer-alto Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/riccardoid/ Host LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annaclareharper/