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The PolicyViz Podcast

Learn how to be a great data communicator and visualizer with host Jon Schwabish. Hear from experts in the fields of data science, data visualization, and presentation skills to improve how you and your organization collect, analyze, and communicate your data in better, more efficient, and more effective ways.

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S13 · E319
Wednesday · 12 min
My Favorite Graphs: Driving Safety, In Fits and Starts
In this My Favorite Graphs episode, I revisit Hannah Fairfield’s 2012 New York Times graphic, Driving Safety, in Fits and Starts. I explain how its connected scatter plot pairs vehicle miles driven per capita with auto fatalities per 100,000 people, connecting each year to reveal changes over time. I walk through the chart’s shifts and loops, including the energy crises of the 1970s. I discuss why connected scatter plots can be difficult to read and what makes this example work so well. Most of all, I highlight how Fairfield combines the story, annotations, and miniature highlighted charts to explain both the data and how to read the graphic. Please note, I mistakenly said the live podcast at Cluster is on Thursday, but it's actually on Wednesday, November 11! I hope you can join me! Chart: Driving Safety, in Fits and Starts Subscribe to this podcast. Follow this show and everything dataviz on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, X, and YouTube. Check out the PolicyViz website to learn more about data and data visualization. Questions? Comments? Pitch ideas? Email me at: jon@policyviz.com Hosted by Zencastr where you can record, transcribe, edit, and automatically publish your meetings, podcasts, and more.
S13 · E318
October 7 · 30 min
Mike "SullyDawg" Sullivan: Explaining Trillion-Dollar Budgets with Solo Cups
In this week’s episode of the show, I talk with Mike "SullyDawg" Sullivan, the viral creator behind the cup pyramid videos that turn massive federal budget numbers into something you can actually see. Mike spent decades as a teacher and coach before a bike ride inspired his first video stacking Solo cups to explain government spending — and it took off almost overnight. We dig into why three-dimensional scale succeeds where bar charts and line graphs fail, how he sources and cross-checks the data behind every video, and the four-part formula he swears by: topic, data, energy, and visual. Mike also opens up about the physical work of stacking thousands of cups in his garage, the unpredictable swings of the social media algorithms, and what’s next for his growing platform. It’s a fun, thoughtful conversation about making enormous numbers finally make sense. Subscribe to this podcast. Follow this show and everything dataviz on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, X, and YouTube. Check out the PolicyViz websiteto learn more about data and data visualization. Questions? Comments? Pitch ideas? Email me at: jon@policyviz.com Hosted by Zencastr where you can record, transcribe, edit, and automatically publish your meetings, podcasts, and more.
S13 · E317
September 30 · 10 min
My Favorite Graphs: Stronger Together from The New York Times
In this My Favorite Graphs episode, I revisit a 2016 New York Times visualization comparing the convention speeches of Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. I explain why highlighting phrases across miniature pages can reveal themes in qualitative data that word counts and bar charts can miss. I share how I have used a simple version of this technique in my own work and discuss tools for creating similar views. Alicia contributes a voice note about the project's development, including the highlighted Google Docs behind the finished graphics. I also discuss how pairing an overview with example quotes can help readers see the broader context of an interview, focus group, or speech. Subscribe to this podcast. Follow this show and everything dataviz on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, X, and YouTube. Check out the PolicyViz website to learn more about data and data visualization. Questions? Comments? Pitch ideas? Email me at: jon@policyviz.com Hosted by Zencastr where you can record, transcribe, edit, and automatically publish your meetings, podcasts, and more.
S13 · E316
September 23 · 49 min
Playfair, Power, and the People Behind the Data: Lauren Klein on Data by Design
Lauren Klein joins me to talk about her new book, Data by Design, co-authored with a team of student collaborators. Over more than a decade of work, Lauren set out to place the history of data visualization in its full historical and political context, going well beyond the familiar “great men” narrative of Playfair and Snow. We talk about how she chose which historical visualizations to feature and redesign, the ethical questions that come up when working with data about the transatlantic slave trade and Indigenous mapping, and what it actually took to track down high-resolution scans of centuries-old charts. Lauren also shares what she wants readers, especially working data visualization designers, to take away: that visualization is only as powerful as how, and by whom, it's put to use. Subscribe to this podcast. Follow this show and everything dataviz on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, X, and YouTube. Check out the PolicyViz websiteto learn more about data and data visualization. Questions? Comments? Pitch ideas? Email me at: jon@policyviz.com Hosted by Zencastr where you can record, transcribe, edit, and automatically publish your meetings, podcasts, and more.
S13 · E315
September 16 · 20 min
My Favorite Graphs: The Guardian's "Bussed Out"
This week I kick off a new series on the show: My Favorite Graphs. I’m going to walk through the projects that shaped how I think about data visualization, data communication, and data storytelling. I'm starting with the Guardian's “Bussed Out: How America Moves Its Homeless,” published in December 2017, an 18-month investigation into the one-way bus tickets that US cities hand out to homeless people. There’s a special treat at the end too! My Favorite Graph: Bussed Out Subscribe to this podcast. Follow this show and everything dataviz on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, X, and YouTube. Check out the PolicyViz websiteto learn more about data and data visualization. Questions? Comments? Pitch ideas? Email me at: jon@policyviz.com Hosted by Zencastr where you can record, transcribe, edit, and automatically publish your meetings, podcasts, and more.
S13 · E314
September 9 · 54 min
What Data Communicators Can Learn from Speech-Language Pathology
In this very special episode of the podcast, I talk with my wife, Lauren Schwabish, a speech-language pathologist who helps adults recover communication after stroke, traumatic brain injury, and other neurological conditions. We discuss person-centered care, translating medical jargon into plain language for patients and families, and the visual tools and assistive technology Lauren builds to help people with aphasia communicate — with real lessons for anyone designing data visualizations, dashboards, or reports for a broad audience. SHOW NOTES Neuro Speech Services | @NeuroSpeechServices on Instagram | National Aphasia Association | Aphasia Access | BYU Aphasia-Friendly Research Resource | Stroke Association (UK) Aphasia-Friendly Guide Subscribe to this podcast. Follow this show and everything dataviz on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, X, and YouTube. Check out the PolicyViz websiteto learn more about data and data visualization. Questions? Comments? Pitch ideas? Email me at: jon@policyviz.com Hosted by Zencastr where you can record, transcribe, edit, and automatically publish your meetings, podcasts, and more.
S13 · E313
September 8 · 7 min
New Season, New Format: Live Shows, Accessibility, and My Favorite Dataviz
Welcome back to Season 13 of the PolicyViz Podcast! In this quick solo kickoff, I walk you through everything I have planned this season, from a full episode on accessibility in data communication to a brand-new weekly series where I talk through some of my favorite data visualizations from the last 15 years. I'll also tell you about my very first live podcast recording, happening in November in Boston as part of the IEEE VIS Conference and the new Cluster Practitioner Summit I'm co-organizing. Along the way I'll be expanding my YouTube content around Flourish, Excel, and PowerPoint, including how I'm using AI tools like Claude and Copilot in my own workflow. It's shaping up to be a busy, lucky Season 13, and I'm so glad you're along for the ride. Subscribe to this podcast. Follow this show and everything dataviz on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, X, and YouTube. Check out the PolicyViz websiteto learn more about data and data visualization. Questions? Comments? Pitch ideas? Email me at: jon@policyviz.com Hosted by Zencastr where you can record, transcribe, edit, and automatically publish your meetings, podcasts, and more.
S12 · E313
July 1 · 46 min
The Math Behind Beautiful Color: David Aerne on Building Open-Source Color Tools
Welcome to the final episode of Season #12 of the PolicyViz Podcast! Thanks so much for checking out the show this season and I hope you enjoy your summer. I’ll be back this fall with more great episodes. On this episode of the show, I’m joined by David Aerne, a freelance developer and designer based in Zurich who has spent years building a remarkable collection of open-source color tools. We dig into the difference between color models, color spaces, and gamuts, and David explains why thinking about color in three dimensions—like navigating a cylinder—can make choosing palettes so much more intuitive. We talk through several of his projects, including Color Names (a curated list of nearly 32,000 community-contributed color names), Rampensau for generating color ramps, and the playful RYB-inspired explainer that simulates how physical, “printy” colors look on screen. David shares his philosophy that we should integrate the systems that generate colors into our work, rather than freezing a static palette and losing the creativity along the way. Whether you build dashboards, design slides, or just love playing with color, this conversation will change how you think about picking your next palette. Keywords: color theory, color palettes, data visualization, color tools, HSL, HSV, RGB, color models, color spaces, open source, generative art, color ramps, design tools, JavaScript, web development, pixel art, PolicyViz Podcast, David Aerne Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast (https://patreon.com/policyviz) for as little as a buck a month Follow David Aerne on Bluesky and X (@meodai) and explore his open-source projects at elastiq.ch Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com
S12 · E311
June 17 · 52 min
From Homework to Portfolio: NYC Open Data in the Classroom
Welcome back to the show! In this week’s episode, I chat with Christian Martinez, a faculty member at Brooklyn College and several other CUNY schools, and Shannon Joyce, a newly minted master’s graduate in psychological research—who, as we note at the top, literally graduated the day before we recorded. Christian shares how he redesigned his graduate stats and R course around NYC Open Data, building what he calls an “accidental author” process that transforms students’ weekly homework into portfolio books and, ultimately, chapters in a published student gallery. Shannon walks us through her own project exploring the relationship between mold complaints and domestic violence rates in New York City, and reflects on what it means to learn to code by asking questions you actually care about. We also dig into the NYC Open Data R package Christian and his students built together—now streamlined from 40 functions down to three and approaching 2,000 installs—and close with a lively conversation about whether open data skews too negative and what a truly positive city dataset might look like. Keywords: NYC open data, R programming, data visualization, teaching data science, open data, CUNY Brooklyn College, R package, data education, open educational resources, data storytelling, Quarto, RStudio, graduate education, data literacy, public data Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast (https://patreon.com/policyviz) for as little as a buck a month Find Christian Martinez and all student work at NYCOpenDataLab.org. Find Shannon Joyce on GitHub (github.com/ShannonJoyce) and LinkedIn. Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com
S12 · E310
June 3 · 40 min
Outlier 2026: What to Expect at This Year's Data Visualization Society Conference
Episode #310! This week I sit down with Jennifer Roscoe and Shrishti Vaish, two of the key organizers behind Outlier 2026, the annual data visualization conference hosted by the Data Visualization Society. We talked about what it takes to pull off a fully virtual, global conference, and why going virtual this year was a strategic choice, not a compromise. Jennifer and Shrishti walked me through the conference dates (June 23–26), the brand-new pre-conference data challenge in partnership with the United Nations, and the exciting new feedback and career clinic designed to give attendees a safe space for honest critique and professional growth. We also get into the behind-the-scenes logistics: the 30-person volunteer committee, the technology stack (mostly Google Sheets, if you were wondering), and the delicate art of playing Tetris with 34 talks across a 12-hour global schedule. Whether you’re a first-time attendee or a longtime DVS community member, this episode is your guide to making the most of Outlier 2026. Keywords: data visualization, data viz, Outlier conference, Data Visualization Society, DVS, data viz conference, Jennifer Roscoe, Shrishti Vaish, virtual conference, data storytelling, dataviz community, conference planning, career clinic, information is beautiful, data challenge, United Nations data, PolicyViz podcast Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Check out the 2026 Outlier Conference. Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com
S12 · E309
May 20 · 35 min
Reimagining Civic Participation: The Digital Democracy Project
I talk with Ramon Perez, Executive Director of the Digital Democracy Project this week. DDP is a nonpartisan nonprofit using secure mobile voting technology to give citizens a real-time voice in legislation. Ramon explains how the platform lets verified, registered voters weigh in on bills being debated in Congress and their state house—and then scores legislators on how closely their votes match what their districts wanted. We dig into how AI, including a RAG-powered chatbot called VoteBot, helps everyday citizens parse thousands of pages of complex legislative text. We also discuss digital security, participatory budgeting, and Ramon’s ambitious goal of expanding the platform to all 50 state legislatures by 2027. Keywords: digital democracy, mobile voting, civic tech, legislative transparency, AI in government, Ramon Perez, Digital Democracy Project, VoteBot, participatory budgeting, voter engagement, legislator accountability, PolicyViz podcast, civic engagement, govtech Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Follow Ramon Perez and the Digital Democracy Project at digitaldemocracyproject.org and download the Votes (VOATZ) app to participate. Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com
S12 · E308
May 7 · 45 min
Mapping the Invisible: Inside the Atlas of Macroscopes
Welcome back to the show! This week, I sit down with three co-authors of the Atlas of Macroscopes—Katy Borner, Elizabeth Record, and Todd Theriault from the Cyberinfrastructure for Network Science Center at Indiana University—to explore what a macroscope actually is and how it differs from a standard interactive visualization. We trace the 20-year journey of the Places and Spaces: Mapping Science exhibit, from two-dimensional wall maps to the 40 richly interactive pieces featured in this stunning 11×14-inch MIT Press book. Along the way, we talk about design strategies for making complex systems legible to general audiences, the role of AI in data visualization, and what it takes to grab and hold attention on a museum floor. Each guest shares a personal favorite from the book—ranging from Smelly Maps to an Appalachian opioid overdose tool to a skills-landscape explorer—and we close with a look at the exhibit’s exciting third decade, focused on visualizing intelligences. Keywords data visualization, macroscope, atlas of macroscopes, interactive visualization, Katy Borner, Indiana University, Places and Spaces, complex systems, information visualization, scrollytelling, AI and data visualization, opioid epidemic mapping, data communication, science exhibit, data science podcast Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast (https://patreon.com/policyviz) for as little as a buck a month Find the Atlas of Macroscopes and explore the Places and Spaces exhibit at scimaps.org. Follow Katy Borner, Elizabeth Record, and Todd Theriault through Indiana University’s CNS Center. Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com
S12 · E307
April 22 · 51 min
Data Vandals: Taking Data Visualization Off the Screen and Into the Streets
In this episode, I sat down with Jen Ray and Jason Forrest—the married duo behind Data Vandals—to talk about their remarkable approach to bringing data visualization off the screen and into the physical world. What started as a pandemic-era poster campaign in New York City evolved into street theater, interactive gallery installations, and a Piaggio Ape three-wheeler touring London with opinion surveys. We talked about how they use isotypes, stickers, and hand-painted signs to spark real conversations between strangers about everything from gun violence to foxes to billionaires. We also got into their recent workshops in the Netherlands and Budapest, and their stunning new installation at Los Angeles Union Station about the city’s native wildlife. If you’ve ever wondered whether people will actually stop and engage with data—even on a cold March day in the East Village—this episode will convince you they will. Keywords: data visualization, data vandals, Jen Ray, Jason Forrest, physical data visualization, data art, community engagement, isotype, street data, data physicalization, data communication, PolicyViz podcast, data storytelling, interactive data, data literacy, public data, data journalism, data design Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Follow Data Vandals on Instagram @datavandals and visit their website at datavandals.com Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com
S12 · E306
April 8 · 35 min
Why Government Makes Things Hard: Don Moynihan on Administrative Burden
In this episode, I chat with Don Moynihan, professor of public policy at the University of Michigan and author of the widely-read Substack newsletter Can We Still Govern? Don’s research focuses on administrative burdens—the learning, compliance, and psychological costs people experience when interacting with government—and how those frictions shape public trust. We talk about the data challenges involved in measuring these experiences, how the shift to digital services changes the picture, and why governments historically have ignored the costs they impose on the people they serve. We also get into Don’s own journey as a public communicator: how a rejected op-ed about Joe Manchin and the child tax credit sparked his newsletter, what it took to retrain himself to write for a general audience, and how he thinks about balancing timeliness with depth. If you’re a researcher wondering whether public communication is worth the risk—or just curious about what makes government work (or not)—this one is for you. Keywords administrative burden, public policy, government services, bureaucracy, policy communication, Substack newsletter, academic writing, public administration, government trust, policy research, data visualization, civic engagement, open government, policy podcast Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Read Don’s newsletter Can We Still Govern? Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com
S12 · E305
March 25 · 36 min
AI, Dashboards, and Human Decisions: A Conversation with Melanie Tory
In this week’s episode, I talk with Melanie Tory, Professor of the Practice at Northeastern University, about how people actually use dashboards in the real world — and why that use often looks very different from what designers intend. Her research reveals that dashboards frequently serve as a starting point for accessing data rather than tools for answering questions directly, with many users simply exporting data to Excel to do their real analytical work. We also explore her work on AI-enabled healthcare systems designed to help clinicians monitor patient risk in intensive care units, including how to visualize uncertainty in ways that busy medical teams can process quickly. And we close with a look at her emerging research on how people are beginning to use generative AI tools for data visualization tasks. It's a thought-provoking conversation about the gap between the tools we build and the ways people actually work with data. Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Keywords: data visualization, dashboards, dashboard design, dashboard usability, data analysis workflows, Tableau dashboards, Power BI dashboards, human data interaction, Melanie Tory, data communication, dashboard research, analytics tools, business intelligence dashboards, data storytelling, data workflows, PolicyViz Podcast Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Visit Melanie's webpage at Northeastern University Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com
S12 · E304
March 11 · 37 min
From PDFs to Pit Lane: Building a Real-Time Data Product for McLaren Racing
In this week’s episode of the PolicyViz Podcast, I chat with Michael Gethers, former Head of Data & Strategy for the McLaren IndyCar team, about how a personal side project analyzing IndyCar timing PDFs turned into a job building real-time data tools for a professional race team. We dig into what it’s like to design data products for engineers, strategists, and drivers who need to understand information instantly while a car is on track. Michael shares how he moved from making public visualizations on Twitter to building an internal analytics application from scratch, why “pretty charts” weren’t enough for the engineers, and how user feedback shaped the product. We also talk about race strategy as a probabilistic data science problem, the difference between dashboards and data products, and what he learned about designing for cognition under extreme time pressure. If you care about dashboards, data storytelling, or building tools people truly use, this conversation is a goldmine. Keywords: data dashboards, data product design, data visualization, motorsports analytics, race strategy, McLaren IndyCar, telemetry data, timing data, data science in sports, user centered design, dashboard design, real time analytics, D3 visualization, data engineering, analytics application Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com
S12 · E303
February 25 · 48 min
The People's Data: Why Federal Data Matters More Than Ever with Nick Hart
In this episode, I talk with Nick Hart, President and CEO of the Data Foundation, about the rapidly changing landscape of federal data, statistical agencies, and evidence-based policymaking. We explore how the Evidence Act reshaped government data infrastructure, why privacy protections and data governance matter more than ever, and what’s been happening behind the scenes over the last year as agencies faced staffing cuts, data removals, and unprecedented political pressure. Nick explains how government data systems actually work, why the U.S. model is both admired and strained, and what a “Data System 2.0” might look like in the future. We also discuss state and local data roles, the risks of politicizing data, and two public-facing initiatives from the Data Foundation: the Evidence Act Hub and the People’s Data 100. This is a wide-ranging conversation about trust, transparency, and why government data quietly underpins far more of our lives than most people realize. Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Check out the Data Foundation and their People's Data 100 project! Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com
S12 · E302
February 18 · 42 min
Dashboards That Deliver: A Conversation with Amanda Makulec
In this episode, I talk with Amanda Makulec about what it really takes to design dashboards and data products that people can understand and use. We dig into why so many dashboards fail, how designers and analysts often misjudge their audiences, and what it means to take a truly human-centered approach to data visualization. Amanda shares insights from her work leading the Data Visualization Society and from her book, including practical ways to think about context, cognition, and decision-making. We also discuss common misconceptions about dashboards, stakeholder expectations, and the gap between technical correctness and real-world usefulness. This conversation is packed with ideas for anyone building data tools meant to inform decisions, not just look impressive. Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Pick up the new book, Dashboards That Deliver. Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com
S12 · E301
February 4 · 40 min
The Future of America's Data: Policy, Risk, and Resilience with Denice Ross
In this episode, I talk with Denice Ross about the fragile state of federal data and her new work at DataIndex. We discuss how the removal, alteration, or disruption of federal data collections and data products affects research, policymaking, businesses, and everyday life. Denice explains the vision behind DataIndex and EssentialData, which monitor data risks, highlight data dependencies, and help users recognize how federal data benefit society. We also explore the roles of private-sector data, civic tech efforts, and public advocacy in building a more resilient national data infrastructure. It’s a fascinating look at what’s at stake when the country’s information backbone is no longer guaranteed. Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Check out America's Essential Data Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com
S12 · E300
January 28 · 43 min
Before & After: Inside the New Book from the Storytelling with Data Team
In this episode, I’m joined by Cole Nussbaumer Knaflic and Mike Cisneros from Storytelling with Data to talk about their new book, Before & After. We dig into where the examples came from, how they selected and refined real client work, and why the book focuses so heavily on process rather than rules or templates. We also reflect on how the data visualization field has evolved over the past decade—from best practices and chart types to iteration, audience empathy, and real-world constraints. Along the way, we talk about teaching data viz, common pitfalls, and why there’s no such thing as a true “201 course”—only practice. Keywords: ddata visualization, storytelling with data, data storytelling, before and after charts, visualization process, data communication, chart design, visual analytics, design iteration, audience-focused data, PolicyViz Podcast, Cole Nussbaumer Knaflic, Mike Cisneros Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Grab the new book, Before and After - Practical Makeovers for Powerful Data Stories Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com

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