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The Hidden Third

Mariana van Zeller

From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all.

New episodes drop every Wednesday wherever you get your podcasts. The Hidden Third is a co-production of Muck Media and The Roost Podcast Network.

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  • 27 episodes
  • weekly
  • Avg 1 hr 53 min
  • English

Episodes 27

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  • Yesterday · 2 hr 23 min

    The Vigilante Hunting Bullies, Scammers and Predators

    Visit https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/HIDDENTHIRD and use code HIDDENTHIRD and get $150 if you win your first $5 lineup! Get 15% off OneSkin with the code MARIANA at https://www.oneskin.co/MARIANA #oneskinpod James McGibney is the man who took down Hunter Moore, the "King of Revenge Porn" behind the notorious site Is Anyone Up. He infiltrated Moore's operation, bought the site out from under him for less than $15,000, and turned it into an anti-bullying platform. That story became the hit Netflix documentary The Most Hated Man on the Internet. But that was more than a decade ago. Today James, a former Marine and cybercrime investigator, is going after something much bigger and much darker. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Mariana Van Zeller sits down with James to talk about his current investigation into two loosely connected online networks called The Com and 764. The Com is a sprawling group of mostly young people, some as young as 15 and 16, who trade stolen data, run crypto scams that have drained hundreds of millions of dollars from ordinary people, swat their enemies, and in some cases prey on underage girls. 764 is the offshoot that has captured the FBI's attention for coercing minors into producing sexual and self-harm content, sometimes pushing them to suicide. James walks Mariana through how he traced these networks from low-level "script kiddies" all the way up to what he calls the head of the snake in Pakistan. Along the way he uncovered a billionaire's son who allegedly trafficked a 16-year-old girl into Miami and beat her on tape, a teenage girl who laughed on a recorded call as her crypto scam victim killed himself, and a group of young men flashing quarter-million-dollar nights at Miami clubs while underage girls walked past bouncers uncarded. The conversation moves through the sextortion crisis pushing American teenagers to suicide before their parents ever find out, why crypto scams have quietly surpassed drug trafficking as the most profitable criminal enterprise in the world, and somewhat of a disagreement between Mariana and James over cheaters.com and the question of who the bully actually is when you publicly out someone for cheating. It also goes somewhere personal. James opens up about his own childhood in foster care and about watching his foster sister be sexually abused. He talks about why every case he takes on today, he takes on for her. There is a lot more in this one. A guy in Texas moving faster than the FBI because subpoenas take months and he doesn't. Living armed, with private security at the house, because that is now the cost of doing this work. An ISIS hit list. More than a thousand death threats sitting in his Instagram inbox right now. And a very simple explanation of why you should never, ever connect to the free Wi-Fi at your hotel. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

  • September 9 · 1 hr 38 min

    Trapped in Bolivia's Deadliest Prison. Then She Took It Over.

    Use code HIDDENTHIRD at http://Monarch.com to get 50% off your first year of Monarch Core! Sharon Yitzhaki was 20 years old when she was pulled off a plane at a Bolivian airport. Authorities searched her bag, and the second bag she was carrying, which belonged to her boyfriend. Hidden in the false bottom was 10 kilos of cocaine. She had no idea it was there. Her boyfriend had abandoned her days earlier, telling her he'd been deported and asking her to meet him back in Amsterdam, where they both lived. Instead, Sharon was sent to Miraflores, one of the most violent women's prisons in the world. What happened next is one of the wildest true stories I've ever heard on The Hidden Third. Inside Miraflores, Sharon was beaten, electrocuted, and developed a severe cocaine addiction. She got clean by asking to be locked in solitary confinement for a month. She adopted a one-month-old baby born inside the prison. She fell in love with a cartel leader locked up in the men's prison next door, and ended up running the drug trade inside her own prison. She was finally released through a Papal edict from Pope John Paul II, and then had to flee the country to avoid being sent back to prison. In this episode, Sharon opens up about betrayal, hope, addiction, motherhood and love behind bars. As well as what happened to the man who betrayed her and to the woman who brutalized her and countless others inside Miraflores. Her bestselling memoir is now a feature film called 10 Kilos, in theaters now and coming to digital worldwide on September 29, 2026. WATCH 10 KILOS Movie🎬 Find a theater near you 🎧 Bonus content, uncut interviews, and behind-the-scenes on our Patreon: patreon.com/thehiddenthird 👉 Subscribe for more stories from the hidden economies most people never see. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

  • September 2 · 2 hr 17 min

    She Escaped Traffickers, Then Was Kidnapped Again

    https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/HIDDENTHIRD and use code HIDDENTHIRD and get $150 if you win your first $5 lineup! Sex trafficking survivor Lurata Lyon was kidnapped twice. First, at 17, by a trafficking network in Bosnia while fleeing the Yugoslav Wars. Then, after escaping, by Serbian paramilitaries who held her captive for six months. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Mariana van Zeller speaks with Lurata Lyon about surviving war, sex trafficking, human trafficking, kidnapping, captivity, trauma, and the long road to rebuilding a life after violence. Lurata was a teenager when the violence surrounding the breakup of former Yugoslavia forced her to flee her home in Serbia. She made her way to Bosnia, where she was kidnapped by a human trafficking and organ-harvesting network. She escaped. But after returning to her hometown, she was taken a second time by Serbian paramilitary forces. Held in solitary captivity for six months, Lurata survived abuse, torture, and the constant fear that she would not make it out alive. Her father ultimately arranged for her to be smuggled out of the country in the back of a truck. She arrived in the United Kingdom as a political refugee and began rebuilding her life from scratch. Today, Lurata Lyon is the author of Unbroken: Surviving Human Trafficking. She is an international speaker, public-speaking and presentation coach, and human trafficking advocate who uses her experience to raise awareness about sex trafficking, sexual exploitation, survivor recovery, resilience, and life after trauma. Sex trafficking is not rare, and it is not limited to conflict zones. The International Labour Organization estimates that 6.3 million people were living in forced commercial sexual exploitation worldwide in 2021, nearly four out of five of them women and girls. In the United States, the National Human Trafficking Hotline received 50,123 signals in 2021, including calls, texts, online chats, and tips from people seeking help or reporting possible trafficking. Even though human trafficking is often discussed through statistics, headlines, and criminal cases, Lurata’s story helps us understand the human reality of sex trafficking and survival. It also shows how war, displacement, fear, isolation, and the search for safety can make people vulnerable to exploitation. #SexTrafficking #HumanTrafficking #SexTraffickingSurvivor #HumanTraffickingSurvivor #HumanTraffickingAwareness #SurvivingSexTrafficking #YugoslavWars #WarSurvivor #PoliticalRefugee #TraumaRecovery #LurataLyon #MarianaVanZeller #TheHiddenThird Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

  • August 26 · 2 hr 15 min

    Ohtani's Bookie Is Out of Prison — And He's Talking

    Try ZipRecruiter for free at http://ZipRecruiter.com/HIDDENTHIRD Go to http://Quince.com/hiddenthird for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Matt Bowyer — the illegal bookmaker at the center of the Shohei Ohtani–Ippei Mizuhara betting scandal — is back on The Hidden Third, and this time he's talking from the other side of federal prison. The last time Matt sat down with me, it was 11 days before he self-surrendered to FCI Lompoc. His underground sportsbook had handled more than $1 billion in bets in a single year, taken action from roughly 700 to 1,200 clients (including Shohei Ohtani's former interpreter, who stole nearly $17 million from the Dodgers superstar to cover his losses), and helped trigger one of the biggest gambling scandals in Major League Baseball history. Now he's out, released early after six months, and the story has only gotten stranger. In our conversation, Matt takes me inside Lompoc: how contraband gets in, how the “cars” (prison crews) really run the yard, why a pouch of "carnitas" (shredded pork) is the closest thing to currency, and how he ran a full business from behind bars — concierge service, personal chef, the works. He tells me what he actually believes about what Shohei Ohtani knew — or didn't know — about Ippei Mizuhara's bets. He opens up about how prison changed him, why he thinks Resorts World Las Vegas got off easy with a $10.5 million fine, where he lands on the explosion of legal prediction markets and sports betting apps, and what he's building next now that he's a free man. This is a rare, unfiltered look at how the illegal sports betting world really works, from the bookie known as "bookie to the athletes." TOPICS COVERED • The Shohei Ohtani betting scandal, explained by the bookmaker at the center of it • Ippei Mizuhara and the $17 million embezzled from the Dodgers • Life inside FCI Lompoc federal prison camp • Running a business from behind bars • What Matt believes Shohei Ohtani knew (and didn't know) • How illegal sports betting operations actually work • Resorts World Las Vegas, the Nevada Gaming Control Board, and the $10.5M money-laundering settlement • The Nevada Black Book and Matt's nomination • Prediction markets vs. sportsbooks vs. offshore books • Athletes, gambling addiction, and what MLB still doesn't want to talk about • What Matt is building now that he's out #ShoheiOhtani #MattBowyer #MathewBowyer #IppeiMizuhara #OhtaniScandal #SportsBetting #IllegalGambling #MLB #Dodgers #TrueCrime #Investigation #Podcast #MarianaVanZeller #TheHiddenThird #ResortsWorld #Bookmaker #PredictionMarkets #Kalshi #Polymarket #Lompoc #FederalPrison Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

  • August 19 · 2 hr 26 min

    The Man Governments Send to Negotiate with Terrorists | Tom Gregg

    Hostage negotiator and UN mediator Tom Gregg on Afghanistan, the Taliban, the Haqqani network, and the Bowe Bergdahl prisoner exchange. He has spent more than twenty years in rooms most of us will never see. Tom Gregg is a conflict and hostage mediator — the man governments send when they need to talk to people they officially refuse to communicate with. He was the UN's man in eastern Afghanistan, the most dangerous corner of the country, when a full-blown insurgency against America took hold. In September 2006 a suicide bomber assassinated Governor Hakim Taniwal, the man he worked alongside — a former university professor who'd come home from exile in Australia to try to rebuild his homeland. The next day a second bomber walked into the funeral and blew himself up among the mourners who'd come to bury him. He has mediated in Somalia, Nigeria and the Sahel, negotiated with kidnappers to bring hostages home, and run back channels for the United Nations, the U.S. government and the World Health Organization. When Kabul fell in August 2021, the UN sent him in to open the first face-to-face talks between the United Nations and the Taliban leadership. He almost never gives interviews, because almost none of his work can be discussed. This is one of the very few long conversations he has ever done. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Tom Gregg sits down with me to explain how the invisible business of negotiation actually works. We talk about: The 2014 Bowe Bergdahl exchange: five Guantánamo prisoners for one American soldier, and how a deal that big actually gets done Flying into Kabul days after the Taliban takeover to open the UN's first face-to-face talks with the new regime The Haqqanis: how the family America armed to fight the Soviets became the deadliest enemy the U.S. faced in Afghanistan Washington armed the father. The son now runs the police. How Sirajuddin Haqqani went from a ten-million-dollar FBI bounty to Afghanistan's interior minister The morning a suicide bomber killed Governor Hakim Taniwal, who he worked alongside in Gardez, and the second bomb that hit the funeral the next day Why those two attacks were the first sign that America's plan for Afghanistan was already failing How a kid from Australia ended up as a UN Political Affairs Officer in the most dangerous corner of Afghanistan The backpacking trip that changed his life, and the time he almost got mugged in Mexico City — the strangest night of his life Negotiating vaccine access with armed groups, and what it takes to get a nurse safely into a war zone Private diplomacy at the Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue in Geneva, and what an NGO can do that no government can What Afghanistan looks like in 2026, with Pakistan now bombing the same provinces the insurgency once crossed from How Bono once told him he was against Bill Clinton engaging Gerry Adams, the Sinn Féin leader the U.S. had banned for twenty years — and how watching that gamble help deliver the Good Friday Agreement changed his mind about talking to your enemy Why the most consequential work in the world is done by people whose names you will never learn His PTSD, how he got better, and why he believes communication is the only thing that ever really ends a war If you're interested in war, hostage negotiation, Afghanistan, the Taliban, intelligence, diplomacy, or the hidden systems that decide who lives and who comes home, this conversation goes somewhere almost no interview does. Subscribe to The Hidden Third on YouTube, and follow, rate and comment on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. It genuinely helps. Get exclusive episodes, behind-the-scenes conversations, and unaired footage from stories we couldn't tell anywhere else at Patreon.com/thehiddenthird Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

  • July 29 · 1 hr 52 min

    Bad Vegan: Scam, Abuse & Netflix Scandal | Sarma Melngailis Speaks Out

    Go to https://meetfabric.com/HIDDENTHIRD and apply today, risk-free Try ZipRecruiter for free at http://ZipRecruiter.com/HIDDENTHIRD Sarma Melngailis was once the queen of New York’s vegan scene — a Wharton‑educated former Wall Street analyst who turned Pure Food and Wine and One Lucky Duck into celebrity hotspots frequented by Alec Baldwin, Woody Harrelson, Gisele Bündchen, Tom Brady, and many more. Then her life collapsed into one of the most infamous restaurant scandals of our time: a controlling partner, psychological abuse, coercive control, missing millions, a fugitive manhunt, Rikers Island, and the Netflix true crime documentary Bad Vegan: Fame. Fraud. Fugitives. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Sarma sits down with me to break down how a serial con man and psychological abuser — a man who first introduced himself to her as “Mr. Fox” — took over her mind and her life. We dig into: How a serial con man/abuser who called himself “Mr. Fox” (Anthony Strangis) slowly took control of her decisions, her finances, and her reality. The elaborate belief system he built around her: promising to make her dog Leon immortal, claiming access to a powerful otherworldly “family,” and turning wire transfers into supposed tests of loyalty. How he used spiritual language and “tests” to coerce her sexually — pressuring her into sex and sexual acts under the guise of bringing light, protection, and transformation into her life. The “meat suit” — how he used his own body and weight gain as yet another test of her devotion, and a tool of psychological control. How the press treated her, including the viral tabloid story that she was caught because “the vegan ordered a pizza” — a headline she says is completely false. Why she believes Bad Vegan unfairly portrayed her story, and what the documentary leaves out. How scammers and psychological abusers gain power over smart, empathetic people — and why intelligence alone isn’t a shield against coercive control. The mechanics of coercive control, isolation, and emotional abuse, and how one person can quietly take over your decisions, your money, and your sense of reality. How she was diagnosed as being on the spectrum late in life — and how that helped her understand both her vulnerabilities and her strengths. Her relationship with Alec Baldwin — and her thoughts on his marriage to Hilaria Baldwin. The cost of public shame, and what recovery looks like after fraud, prison, and global headlines — including her attempt to reclaim her story through her memoir The Girl with the Duck Tattoo. If you’re interested in true crime, scam stories, cult psychology, coercive control, or the dark side of fame and celebrity culture, this interview goes far beyond the documentary and tells the story in Sarma’s own words. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

  • July 8 · 2 hr 7 min

    How an LAPD Captain Solved a 30-Year-Old Cold Case Murder

    Nearly 30 years after 15‑year‑old Danielle “Danni” Houchins was murdered in Montana, former LAPD captain Tom Elfmont helped finally bring her family answers. Drawing on more than 25 years running gang and narcotics operations in South Los Angeles, Tom has turned his skills to cold cases and long‑forgotten victims. In this episode, he takes us inside policing during some of the most volatile moments in modern U.S. history — from Vietnam and the protest years in Berkeley to the 1992 Los Angeles riots and the notorious 39th and Dalton drug raid that put his LAPD career on trial. Get 15% off OneSkin with the code MARIANA at https://www.oneskin.co/MARIANA #oneskinpod Timeline’s clinically proven formula, Mitopure, now starts at $79, when you subscribe at http://timeline.com/MARIANA Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

  • July 1 · 1 hr 2 min

    Wallo267 spent 20 years in Prison for Armed Robbery. Now He's YouTube’s Cultural Advisor.

    In this episode of The Hidden Third, we sit down with Wallo267 to unpack a story that starts in the harshest possible place: prison. Wallo caught his first conviction at just 10 years old. By 17, he was sentenced to adult prison, where he would spend the next 20 years locked away. Sometimes in the same facility as his own brother and stepfather. Instead of letting prison break him, he turned it into a classroom. Inside, Wallo started paying attention. He interviewed every newly arrived inmate about the outside world. Music, technology, culture, slang — tracking how everything was changing while he was gone. He filled notebooks, studied human behavior, and built a philosophy around one idea: your circumstances don’t get to decide your outcome. You do. Then everything changed. Wallo got hold of a contraband phone and began posting raw, unfiltered content from inside prison, building an audience before he ever walked out. By the time he stepped back into society, he already had a following and a blueprint for his new life. Today, Wallo267 is a Cultural Advisor at YouTube, co-host of Million Dollaz Worth of Game — one of the most influential cultural podcasts in the country — and a New York Times bestselling author whose books like Armed with Good Intentions and Yes to You, No to Them have inspired millions. This conversation dives into incarceration, transformation, cultural influence, and the mindset required to rewrite your story when the system expects you to fail. If you’re drawn to true crime, prison stories, personal transformation, or high-stakes comeback narratives, this episode is for you. Save 60% on Webroot when you go to http://webroot.com/MARIANA Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

  • June 24 · 1 hr 8 min

    The World’s Best Bounty Hunter: How Michelle Gomez Finds People Who Vanish

    How do you find people who do not want to be found? In this episode of The Hidden Third, Mariana sits down with skip tracer and private investigator Michelle Gomez – described by Wired as “the world’s best bounty hunter” – to unpack how she tracks down people who have disappeared on purpose, from the fugitive Ryan Eugene Mullen to a fake “Prince of Dubai.” At 4'11" and just over 100 pounds, Michelle doesn’t look like the person you’d send after fugitives, stolen heavy equipment, or missing yachts – and that’s exactly why she’s so good at it. She leans into her unassuming appearance and uses quirky disguises, from Girl Scout getups to sex‑worker personas, wigs, and glasses, to get close to people who do not want to talk. Michelle grew up in Texas, the daughter of two IBM engineers, and her parents made her build a computer from scratch and solder her own motherboard before she was a teenager. That early crash course in how systems fit together became the blueprint for her career: today she applies the same mindset to people, combing through digital traces, financial records, and tiny “location blips” to build a profile and find the one thread that gives a target away. Over more than two decades, she’s hunted down fugitives, scammers, debt‑dodgers, and high‑risk skips that collection agencies, other investigators, and even law enforcement have failed to locate. In this conversation, she breaks down her use of open‑source intelligence (OSINT), social engineering, and psychological profiling – and what her biggest cases reveal about privacy, ghosting, and the fantasy of truly disappearing. If you’re into investigative journalism, true crime, OSINT, or the hidden world of skip tracing and bounty hunting, this episode is for you. Get 15% off OneSkin with the code MARIANA at https://www.oneskin.co/MARIANA #oneskinpod Save 60% on Webroot when you go to http://webroot.com/MARIANA Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

  • June 17 · 2 hr 47 min

    America’s Last Weed Prisoner

    This past January, America’s so‑called “last cannabis prisoner” walked out of federal custody after serving years on a marijuana trafficking conspiracy between California and the East Coast. At 24, he was running a multi‑million‑dollar weed pipeline from Northern California to Maryland, using tractor‑trailers, private planes, and even FedEx franchises as part of the cannabis supply chain. Before he was ever arrested, he realized a federal case was coming, contacted a lawyer known for representing El Chapo, and then disappeared into Central America as a fugitive. In this episode of The Hidden Third, we go inside his full story as a federal cannabis defendant in a “legal weed” America: how his operation actually worked, what happened to the millions he made, and how, once he was back in the system, he says he was scammed by a lawyer he trusted. We talk about: How a kid who’d been homeless as a teen in suburban Maryland built a national cannabis logistics network The nuts and bolts of the operation: Northern California grow, East Coast demand, trucks and FedEx franchises in between Why he fled to Central America under another identity — and what finally made him come back and face the federal indictment What happened to the money and why the millions he made didn’t translate into a soft landing How he says he was scammed by his own lawyer Life inside pretrial custody and prison, “diesel therapy,” and what it means to try to rebuild while still on probation If you’re interested in the war on drugs, federal marijuana cases, or how large‑scale cannabis trafficking really works behind the headlines, this episode pulls back the curtain in a way you rarely hear from someone who’s just come home. Timeline’s clinically proven formula, Mitopure, now starts at $79, when you subscribe at http://timeline.com/MARIANA Save 60% on Webroot when you go to http://webroot.com/MARIANA Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

  • June 10 · 1 hr 29 min

    She Was the Crystal Meth Queen of Waikiki. Then She Became a PTA Mom in New Jersey.

    Nikki Mammano arrived in Hawaii as a college student and, within months, was running crystal meth in Waikiki. She became known as the Crystal Meth Queen of Waikiki — until it all came crashing down. Today, she’s a PTA mom in New Jersey and the author of Breaking Good, a brutally honest memoir about addiction, trauma, and the long road to healing. In this episode of The Hidden Third, we trace Nikki’s journey from an abused child and teenage addict to a meth dealer in Hawaii’s underworld, and eventually to a sober life built on therapy, accountability, and telling the truth about her past. She talks candidly about prison, homelessness, sex work, parenting with a criminal record, and what recovery really looks like years after the last high. In this conversation, we cover: Childhood abuse and the early wounds that shaped her Her teenage struggle with addiction How a college move to Hawaii spiraled into full‑time meth dealing Life as the Crystal Meth Queen of Waikiki and the rules of that underworld Violence, paranoia, and the moment everything collapsed Prison, shame, and confronting buried trauma Homelessness, sex work, and the cost of survival Parenting, PTA meetings, and living honestly with your past The role of therapy in long‑term recovery Why she wrote Breaking Good and what she hopes readers take from it If you or someone close to you is dealing with addiction, Nikki’s story is not a neat redemption arc — it’s a raw, hopeful map of relapse, repair, and the possibility of starting over. Go to http://Quince.com/hiddenthird for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

  • June 3 · 2 hr 8 min

    Lee Harris Claims to Channel Aliens. Why Do Millions Believe Him?

    On this episode of The Hidden Third, I interview Lee Harris — a channeler who claims to communicate with 88 intergalactic beings known as “The Z’s.” He reaches over 2 million people each month and leads a global spiritual community built around his teachings on consciousness, aliens, and the future of humanity. I’m a journalist, trained to look for evidence — not claims about non-human intelligence. But given Lee’s growing influence, I wanted to understand what’s behind it. For this conversation, I kept an open mind. What followed was one of the most unusual interviews I’ve conducted. During our conversation, Lee entered a channeling state and began speaking as the Z’s — allowing me to ask questions directly. He also gave me a personal spiritual reading in real time. We discuss: Who the Z’s are and what they claim Lee’s journey from musician to globally known channeler What these beings say about the future of humanity UFOs, UAPs, and recent government disclosures What it feels like to channel non-human intelligence A live channeling session during the interview A personal reading done on me Whether you’re skeptical or curious, this episode explores one of the fastest-growing and most controversial movements in modern spirituality. Upgrade your wallet today! Get up to 40% off @Ridge during their Father’s Day Sale when you go to https://www.Ridge.com/MARIANA #Ridgepod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

  • May 27 · 2 hr 25 min

    He Was a Violent Neo-Nazi Leader. Then He Found Out He Is Jewish.

    Join The Hidden Third Patreon today! patreon.com/thehiddenthird Frank Meeink's life runs parallel in many ways to one of the most powerful films ever made about hate in America — American History X. Except his story is real. By 16 he was one of the most notorious skinhead gang leaders on the East Coast. By 17 he had his own cable TV show preaching white supremacy. By 18 he was doing hard time in an Illinois prison for kidnapping and beating a teenager. In prison, a friendship with a Black inmate put the first cracks in his beliefs. After his release, a Jewish furniture dealer hired him — swastika tattoo and all — and treated him with more dignity than anyone ever had. Then the Oklahoma City bombing pushed him the rest of the way. He walked into the FBI and told them everything. But the biggest twist came later. A DNA test revealed he had Jewish ancestry. The man who once believed Jews were the root of all evil now keeps kosher and studies Torah. In this episode, Mariana sits down with Frank to talk about his time in the neo-Nazi movement, his deradicalization work, his memoir Autobiography of a Recovering Skinhead, and his life today — including his marriage to Allison Mack, the Smallville actress who served time for her role in the NXIVM sex cult. Limited Time Offer – You Need Fiber. Yes you! Boost your fiber with Huel today using my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code MARIANA at https://www.huel.com/MARIANA. New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

  • May 20 · 1 hr 6 min

    Prophet or Predator: How He Tricked Her and Trafficked Her Mother

    Join The Hidden Third Patreon today! patreon.com/thehiddenthird Lola Blanc was 12 when a man at an LDS (Mormon) singles dance told her mother he was a prophet receiving direct revelation from God. No compound, no mass following — just a one-on-one system of control that separated Lola from her mom and escalated into coercion and trafficking, all framed as God's will. Lola's mother, Christine Marie, just starred in Netflix's Trust Me: The False Prophet — but this story never made the headlines, and the man was never fully stopped. Today Lola is a cult survivor, musician, filmmaker, actor (American Horror Story, Under the Silver Lake), and co-host of the Trust Me podcast, where she and Meagan Elizabeth dismantle the mechanics of coercion. In this episode, she tells Mariana van Zeller the full story. Limited Time Offer – You Need Fiber. Yes you! Boost your fiber with Huel today using my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code MARIANA at https://www.huel.com/MARIANA. New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! Timeline’s clinically proven formula, Mitopure, now starts at $79, when you subscribe at⁠ http://timeline.com/MARIANA⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

  • May 15 · 1 hr 42 min

    Mariana's Interview on The Jordan Harbinger Show

    Special episode drop! We're excited to share an interview with Mariana on The Jordan Harbinger Show. Mariana talks about her long-running show, Trafficked with Mariana van Zeller, her experiences in the field, and what she's taking on now. We hope you enjoy! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

  • May 13 · 50 min

    “The Hangover” Producer Who Walked Away From Hollywood to Fix America's Prison System

    Join The Hidden Third Patreon today! patreon.com/thehiddenthird Scott Budnick produced some of the biggest films in Hollywood — Old School, The Hangover, War Dogs. Then he visited a juvenile detention center in Los Angeles, and it changed the trajectory of his life. He walked away from Hollywood and started going into juvenile detention centers every week — teaching, listening, showing up for kids the system had written off. That was 22 years ago. He still goes every week. Along the way, he built the Anti-Recidivism Coalition (ARC) — a name suggested by Robert Downey Jr. — fought for sentences to be overturned, and watched people walk out of prison and build lives nobody thought were possible. And then he came back to Hollywood — this time to make films with real social impact, including Just Mercy, starring Michael B. Jordan. In this conversation, Mariana and Scott talk (a little bit) about Hollywood, but mostly about America's broken criminal justice system, why it fails the people it was supposed to correct, and what real change actually requires. Plus: the story of a man in solitary confinement for decades — Scott slipped his pinky through the cell bars to reach him, the first human contact this man had had in over 30 years. Today, because of policy reform Scott fought for, he is free and working with the homeless population. CODES: Limited Time Offer – You Need Fiber. Yes you! Boost your fiber with Huel today using my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code MARIANA at https://www.huel.com/MARIANA. New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! Get 15% off OneSkin with the code MARIANA at https://www.oneskin.co/MARIANA #oneskinpod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

  • May 6 · 1 hr 30 min

    Meagan Elizabeth: Raised in a Cult Hiding 900 Abusers

    Join The Hidden Third Patreon today! patreon.com/thehiddenthird Watch on Spotify. If you’re subscribed to Spotify Premium, you don’t get any Spotify ads on my video. With a limited-time offer, get Huel today with an exclusive offer of 15% off online with the code MARIANA at https://www.huel.com/mariana. New customers only. Meagan Elizabeth was born into the Two-by-Twos — one of the most secretive cults in the world. No name, no building, no written doctrine. Just families meeting in homes across 30 countries, convinced they were the only people on earth going to heaven. Fourth generation. She didn't choose it. For over a century the group sheltered at least 900 documented abusers before survivors spoke out and the FBI opened a global investigation in 2024. In this episode, Mariana sits down with Meagan to talk about what life inside really looked like, how she escaped, and what it takes to rebuild an identity after leaving a cult. Meagan is a cult survivor, comedian, and co-host of the cult podcast Trust Me. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

  • April 29 · 2 hr 8 min

    Amanda Knox Imprisoned In Italy: The Real Story

    Join The Hidden Third Patreon today! patreon.com/thehiddenthird Get 15% off OneSkin with the code MARIANA at http://www.oneskin.co/MARIANA #oneskinpod Amanda Knox was 20 years old when she went to Italy for a study abroad year. Weeks later, her roommate Meredith Kercher was murdered — and Amanda became the story. She was wrongfully convicted, sentenced to 26 years, and imprisoned for four years while the global media treated her guilt as a foregone conclusion. After one of the most high-profile exonerations in modern legal history, Amanda Knox is now a New York Times bestselling author, journalist, criminal justice reform advocate, and host of the wrongful conviction podcast Hard Knox. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Mariana van Zeller gets the real story — false confessions, media trials, the psychology of innocence, and what it actually takes to reclaim your life when the whole world got it wrong. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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