The Hard Way With Joe De Sena

Ashley Hunter on FitKids, 195 Schools, and Why Kids Need Hard Things Before They Need Anything Else

Ashley Hunter walked away from investment banking to teach kids how to move. Fifteen years later, Fit Kids operates in 195 schools across 13 states and has reached roughly 500,000 children. Joe De Sena sits down with Ashley to talk about why kids who already face hard lives every day benefit most from structured physical activity, how her program turns reluctant participants into kids who say burpees are their favorite exercise, and what any parent can do at home with zero equipment and zero money. Things You Will Learn: Why low-income kids in under-resourced schools lose access to physical activity first, and what Fit Kids does to reverse it. The approach that turns kids who are afraid of exercise into kids who request burpees by name. What any parent can do at home with bodyweight exercises and zero budget to build physical confidence in their children. Tools & Frameworks Covered: Make Fitness the Game: Embed burpees, lunges, and squats inside obstacle courses and relay races so kids associate effort with fun, not punishment. "You Can Do Hard Things. Period.": One sentence, no negotiation. Use it as a universal response when a child says something is too hard. End the conversation there. Free Bodyweight Protocol for Home" Push-ups, burpees, lunges, squats. No equipment. No cost. Available through fitkids.org for any parent who asks. Chapters: 0:00 Intro: Ashley Hunter has reached 500,000 kids through fitness 1:29 Growing up in Wayzata, Minnesota, with three sisters and a dad who wanted a boy 02:21 From investment banking to teaching to founding Fit Kids 3:44 How Fit Kids started at one school and grew to 195 5:44 Jay Jackson: the Green Beret's son who trained in the dark and disarmed an attacker 7:40 Physical activity teaches kids how to persevere through hard lives 8:43 The hardest part of running Fit Kids: having to say no to schools that need it 10:34 Kids who start the year afraid of exercise and end it asking for more 12:53 What parents without a program can do at home for free 13:46 How Spartan and Fit Kids partner to get kids to races at Dodger Stadium 18:55 The biggest resistance Ashley Hunter grew up in Wayzata, Minnesota, played sports year-round, and went into investment banking before realizing finance was not where she belonged. She taught school, then founded Circle of Friends (now Ambassadors) to connect young parents with Stanford's Lucile Packard Children's Hospital. Fifteen years ago, she walked onto a school playground and started teaching kids sports after school. That one-school experiment became Fit Kids, now operating in 195 schools across 13 states, serving roughly 30,000 kids per year and approximately 500,000 total. Fit Kids targets low-income children at under-resourced schools, delivering structured physical activity programs where PE budgets have been cut. She has four kids. One of them plays SEC football. Connect to Ashley: Website: https://fitkids.org/our-team/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashlhunter/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rockfitmom/

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Tyler Andrews on Surviving Aplastic Anemia, Running Everest in 9:55, and a Decade of Grinding

Joe De Sena sits down with Tyler Andrews, a cancer survivor turned elite endurance athlete who just set the fastest known time from Everest Base Camp to the summit: 9 hours and 55 minutes, breaking a 23-year-old record held by Lakpa Gelu by over an hour. This episode breaks down exactly how Tyler trained for Everest with hypoxic machines simulating 38,000 feet, a 6,000-foot mountain climb five days a week out his back door in Quito, and a strength program built with a Tour de France-level performance lab. They also dive into why a decade of consistency matters more than early talent, how to structure altitude and endurance training for extreme goals, and what it took to outpace a record that stood for over two decades. Things You Will Learn: Why the athlete who was not even the best runner on his Division Three team eventually broke a 23-year Everest speed record. The specific training structure Andrews used to prepare for a single-push summit attempt: hypoxic sessions, uphill volume, and strength work. What aplastic anemia survival at age six taught him about patience, gradual progress, and not boxing yourself into one identity. Tools & Frameworks Covered: Progressive Distance Scaling: Start at the distance where you are competitive, then move up one level at a time. 5K to 10K to half marathon to marathon to 50K to FKT to Everest. Each step confirms the next is possible. Hypoxic Layering: Train at moderate altitude daily (10,000 feet), add simulated extreme altitude on a stationary bike (up to 38,000 feet) for 10–12 hours per week, and stack that on top of sport-specific uphill volume. Decade Rule: Do not expect overnight results. A decade of consistent love of the process and daily grinding is what separates mediocre early performance from record-breaking later performance. If this episode moved you, do not just listen. Do something about it. Sign up. Show up. Do the work. Spartan.com. No more excuses. Chapters: 0:00 Intro: Cancer survivor, Everest speed record holder 1:28 Diagnosed with aplastic anemia at age six 3:07 How childhood illness shaped his personality and perspective 4:41 What a six-year-old remembers about cancer treatment 6:30 Aplastic anemia recovery: never cured, always in remission 8:00 The high school coach who changed everything 9:55 PRing every weekend and falling in love with running 10:39 From 5K to marathon to 50K to FKT to Everest 12:32 What FKT means and how the fastest known time world works 14:02 Spartan CTA: Sign up for something hard 14:39 How Tyler trained for the Everest speed record 17:51 The team behind the attempt: Human Powered Health 19:12 The record: 9 hours 55 minutes, beating a 23-year mark by 61 minutes 20:24 What is next: the book, the film, and what he cannot say yet 21:14 Three lessons from Tyler 23:36 Where to find Tyler Andrews and his podcast with his dad Tyler Andrews was diagnosed with aplastic anemia at age six and underwent experimental chemotherapy that destroyed and regrew his bone marrow. He was not an athletic kid: small from the chemo, hyperactive, drawn to music and science. A high school cross-country coach dared him to train consistently, and he fell in love with running after PRing every weekend for a month straight. He ran NCAA Division III, turned professional, made two Olympic marathon trials, won a silver medal at the 50K World Championships, and eventually transitioned to the fastest-known-time circuit during COVID. He now holds the Everest Base Camp to summit speed record at 9 hours and 55 minutes, breaking a 23-year-old mark by over an hour. He lives and trains in Quito, Ecuador, at 10,000 feet. Connect to Tyler: Website: https://www.tylercandrews.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tylercandrews/ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@TylerCAndrews Chaski Foundation: https://givebutter.com/chaskifoundation If we could link to my website (tylercandrews.com and socials @tylercandrews on IG and YT mainly), that would be great. Also a link to our fundraiser where we have raised almost $70K to support youth athletes in Nepal and Ecuador (), that would be amazing!

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Mark Allen, Dane Miller, James Lawrence, and Leif Babin on Daily Consistency, the Three Best Lifts, and Extreme Ownership

Joe De Sena opens this Labor Day episode with a direct question: what does it actually look like to show up every day, year after year, with no days off? Six-time Ironman World Champion Mark Allen, now 67, explains why consistency beats intensity at every age and how to stop competing with your younger self. Olympic strength coach Dane Miller breaks down the ESSE framework for matching training to any goal and names the three lifts most athletes avoid because they are hard: front squat, pull-up, and snatch. Iron Cowboy James Lawrence shares a pen-and-paper method for getting unstuck: write down everything in your head, cross out what you cannot control, and focus on what remains. Navy SEAL Leif Babin explains why actual combat was harder than Hell Week and how extreme ownership turns failure into the foundation for resilience. This episode delivers four direct perspectives on the same principle: daily work is the only strategy that compounds. Things You Will Learn: Why consistency matters more than volume, speed, or intensity, especially after 40. The three resistance training movements that transfer to every sport and why most people avoid them. A pen-and-paper method for breaking through fear-based paralysis when you feel stuck. Tools & Frameworks Covered: ESSE Framework: Evaluate every training goal through four lenses: Endurance, Strength, Speed, Explosiveness. Adjust gym time based on which lens your sport or life demands most. Pen-and-Paper Reset: When stuck, write down every thought. Cross out what you cannot control. Focus only on what remains. Repeat daily. Accountability Anchor: Find one simple, daily accountability tool and use it to remove the decision of whether to train. If this episode moved you, do not just listen. Do something about it. Sign up. Show up. Do the work. Spartan.com. No more excuses. Chapters: 0:00 Intro - Joe De Sena on Labor Day and the people who do the work 1:55 Mark Allen - Consistency, accountability, and why it is the only variable that matters at 67 6:59 Dane Miller - The ESSE framework, cyclical fitness trends, and the three lifts that stand the test of time 13:43 James Lawrence - Entrepreneurship as Sisyphus, letting go of control, and the pen-and-paper method for getting unstuck 17:00 Leif Babin - Why combat was harder than Hell Week, extreme ownership, and hanging on a little longer 20:07 Closing - Barry Hearns on why the gift of labor is the gift of life Mark Allen is a six-time Ironman World Champion and one of the most dominant endurance athletes in triathlon history. His 1989 battle with Dave Scott at Kona is considered the race that launched the modern era of Ironman. Now 67, Mark coaches triathletes and remains an active surfer, cyclist, and functional fitness practitioner in Santa Cruz, California. Dane Miller is a master strength coach specializing in Olympic weightlifting and athletic performance. He has coached athletes to Olympic medals, world championships, and national titles across weightlifting, wrestling, and throwing events. He operates Garage Strength out of southeastern Pennsylvania and runs the Peak Strength training app. James Lawrence, known as the Iron Cowboy, completed 50 Ironman-distance triathlons in 50 consecutive days across all 50 U.S. states, then followed it with 100 consecutive Ironmans during the Conquer 100 challenge. A bike crash on day 59 left him with multiple concussions and a cracked L5 vertebra. He spent three years in brain clinics rewiring neurological pathways before returning to competition. His latest book, Iron Hope, and the Emmy-nominated Conquer 100 documentary are both available now. Leif Babin is a former Navy SEAL officer who led SEAL platoons in the Battle of Ramadi during some of the most intense urban combat of the Iraq War. He co-founded Echelon Front with Jocko Willink to bring battlefield leadership principles to business and civilian life. He also co-authored the bestseller Extreme Ownership.

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Andy Stumpf on Getting Shot, Watching Hundreds Quit SEAL Training, and Why Momentum Beats Direction

Andy Stumpf's BUD/S class started with 180 students. 18 graduated. As a BUD/S instructor years later, he got to do something most SEALs never do: sit down with the hundreds who quit and ask them why. The answer was almost always the same. Joe De Sena talks with Andy, a retired SEAL Team Six operator who was shot during a 2005 deployment, spent eighteen months rehabbing neuropathic nerve damage, and went on to fly charter jets, jump professionally, open a Black Rifle Coffee outpost in Montana, and write the book Drown Proof. This episode breaks down why the students who quit SEAL training all collapsed the same way, what the difference is between telling someone a run is four miles and telling them to run until you say stop, and why momentum matters more than knowing exactly where you are headed. Things You Will Learn: The single pattern that appeared in nearly every SEAL training dropout, and why it applies to any goal you have set and abandoned. Why starting to move matters more than knowing exactly where you are going. What changes when you shift from macro goals to micro execution under pressure. Tools & Frameworks Covered: Momentum Over Azimuth: Start moving before you have a perfect plan. Paralysis comes from needing the destination to be clear before taking the first step. Movement creates clarity. Stillness creates doubt. Macro Goal, Micro Living: Set the big target, then forget it. Shrink your world to the next step, the next hill, the next rep. The students who quit SEAL training all failed the same way: their view of time expanded until the distance between where they stood and the finish overwhelmed them. Ask for Help as Strength: The toughest people Stumpf has known all share one trait: when they hit the limit of their knowledge, they find an expert. When they are struggling, they ask. Nobody can read your mind. Until you ask, the people who care about you cannot help you. 'Heads up! I'll be a judge at The Baker House Challenge - A live entrepreneurship and real estate pitch competition where founders put real deals in front of Myself, Richard Baker, Adam Weitsman for a shot at $20,000 in prizes. Watch the full competition live here on YouTube August 29. Or Go to https://www.bakerhouse1921.com/challenge to tune in. Chapters: 0:00 Intro: Andy Stumpf, retired SEAL Team Six, now owns a coffee shop 4:23 A mason father and the lessons that carried forward 6:09 Joined the military at 17, barely graduated high school, never looked back 8:52 Why he has never once wished he went to college 11:19 Post-military life: aviation, skydiving, base jumping, coffee, and figuring it out 13:07 The book Drownproof 14:35 When did the loneliness epidemic start, and what phones have to do with it 21:59 Camaraderie is suffering plus laughter 24:24 Getting shot in 2005 26:54 Why the worst thing that happened became the best thing twenty years later 28:58 Three tools for anyone who feels stuck: momentum, shrink your world, ask for help 33:08 The job of a BUD/S instructor is to remove hope 39:53 The four-mile run experiment: same distance, different framing, different quit rates 41:18 Nobody can make you quit except yourself Andy Stumpf grew up in Santa Cruz, California, the son of a brick mason whose family had laid stone for three generations. At eleven, his father mentioned the Navy SEALs once, and the idea absorbed every decision that followed. He enlisted at seventeen, barely graduated high school, and never looked back. Andy served ten deployments as a SEAL Team Six operator. In 2005, he was shot during a mission, suffered neuropathic nerve damage, and spent eighteen months rehabbing as a BUD/S instructor, where he studied why the vast majority of candidates quit on their lifelong goals. Andy got commissioned as an officer without a college degree, finished his career on a West Coast team, and went on to fly charter jets, jump professionally, teach skydiving, launch a nine-year podcast, and open a Black Rifle Coffee outpost in Kalispell, Montana. His book, Drown Proof, was published in April 2025. Connect to Andy: Website: https://thestringbean.co/about/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thestring.bean/?hl=en YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/ClearedHotPodcast X: https://x.com/AndyStumpf77

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Richard Baker and Adam Weitsman on Capital, Discipline, and What Separates Entrepreneurs Who Survive

Richard Baker raised $700 million in February 2021 and burned through it in three years. Adam Weitsman served time in federal prison, lost his ego, and rebuilt his business with a level of discipline he did not have before. In this episode of The Hard Way, Joe De Sena sits down with both entrepreneurs to break down what really separates the people who survive in business from the ones who fold. Richard shares his "zoo bears vs. jungle bears" framework: the era of safe corporate jobs is changing, and entrepreneurs need to learn how to live on what they kill. Adam explains why he checks an entrepreneur's social media before hearing their pitch, because lifestyle often reveals work ethic faster than a slide deck. They cover capital as both a lifeline and a curse, why Adam runs on three hours of sleep while Richard protects his eight, what failure teaches you, and what they will be looking for when founders pitch live at the Baker House Challenge at Cornell University on August 29. Things You Will Learn Why Richard believes the world is moving from "zoo bears" to "jungle bears," and what that means for the next generation of entrepreneurs. Why Adam looks at how founders live before he listens to what they pitch. How capital can either fuel growth or make a business sloppy. Why discipline, resilience, and execution matter more than having a good idea. What separates entrepreneurs who can take a hit from those who quit when things get hard. Tools & Frameworks Covered Zoo Bears vs. Jungle Bearsa. Corporate life trains people to perform for safety. Entrepreneurship forces people to hunt, adapt, and survive on their own. Fail Small, Win Biga. Richard's approach is to risk as little personal capital as possible, keep failures small, and scale the wins when they come. Social Media Audita. Adam checks how entrepreneurs live before he evaluates their pitch. If their lifestyle does not match their claimed work ethic, that tells him everything. The Baker House Challenge is a live entrepreneurship and real estate pitch competition where founders put real deals in front of Richard Baker, Adam Weitsman, Joe De Sena, and special guests for a shot at $20,000 in prizes. Watch the full competition live on YouTube August 29. Go to bakerhouse1921.com/challenge to tune in. Chapters: 0:00 Intro: Joe De Sena with Richard Baker and Adam Weitsman 0:56 Adam on going to prison and losing his ego 2:18 Richard on failing small and winning big 3:14 Zoo bears vs. jungle bears: Why the corporate era is ending 5:27 The pandemic 5 AM calls that kept entrepreneurs alive 10:32 Access to capital vs. time: The two biggest limiting factors 11:44 Richard raised $700 million and burned through it in three years 13:30 The real cost of going all in 15:21 Adam checks an entrepreneur's social media before hearing the pitch 18:05 Speed of execution as a competitive advantage 20:00 200 organized houses vs. 10,000 messy houses 22:43 The Baker House Challenge at Cornell Richard Baker is an entrepreneur and investor known for large-scale real estate and retail ventures. He raised $700 million in February 2021 and has built his career on a philosophy of using as little personal capital as possible: failing small and winning big. He spent 17 years working alongside his father, learning the business through daily questions from the age of 12. He is the founder of Baker House, a community and platform designed to connect, mentor, and support the next generation of entrepreneurs. The Baker House Challenge at Cornell University on August 29 brings together founders to pitch, compete, and learn. Adam Weitsman is an entrepreneur based in upstate New York operating in an industrial, cyclical business. After going to federal prison in his early 30s, he rebuilt his career and his discipline from scratch: structured time management, deep involvement in every decision, and a work ethic that runs on three hours of sleep. Adam evaluates entrepreneurs by checking how they live before listening to what they pitch, and has been active in pre-seed investing for early-stage founders. Connect to Richard: Website: https://bakerhouse1921.com/principles LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-baker-48a5a63b9/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/baker_house1921/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@baker_house1921 Connect to Adam: Website: https://www.adamweitsman.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-weitsman-56a3912/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/adamweitsman/?hl=en Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/adam.weitsman/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theadamweitsman X: https://x.com/AdamWeitsman?lang=en TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@adamweitsman

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Joe McConaughy on the PCT Speed Record, Hallucinating at the Finish, and Why 50–90% of Every Race Is a Grind

Joe McConaughy was a college miler who had never raced anything longer than a mile when he Googled "run the Pacific Crest Trail" at 22 years old. 53 days and 2,600 miles later, he held the speed record. Joe De Sena sits down with Joe, a trail runner, coach, race director, and new dad, to break down what actually happens to your body and mind past day 40 of a multi-day speed record, why he spent the final 15 days running on a peg leg after his ankle lost function, and the hallucination at the top of Mount Whitney where an imaginary man named Andre offered to take his watch and finish the record for him. They cover the 50-to-90-percent grind zone where every race is won or lost, how an invisible competitor on a GPS tracker squeezed a stronger finish out of McConaughy than any training block ever could, and why he calls ultra running a silly, selfish sport. Things You Will Learn: Why the middle of every race, from a 5K to a 2,600-mile record attempt, is where performance is decided. Why a D1 college miler with zero ultra experience set a 2,600-mile speed record at 22 and what broke along the way. The differences among short, medium, and long multi-day efforts, and how sleep strategy changes for each. Tools & Frameworks Covered: The 50–90% Grind Zone: Between halfway and 90% of any race distance, you will believe it is impossible or that it will never end. Expect it. Plan for it. Push through it. Internal vs. External Activation" Ninety percent of an ultra is you against yourself. The remaining 10% can unlock performance you cannot access alone. Build external pressure into your race plan. Miles Over Smiles / Smiles Over Miles: The grind is real. The suffering is real. But if the process does not fill your cup on the other side, you will not keep showing up long enough to get good. 'Heads up! I'll be a judge at The Baker House Challenge - A live entrepreneurship and real estate pitch competition where founders put real deals in front of Myself, Richard Baker, Adam Weitsman for a shot at $20,000 in prizes. Watch the full competition live here on YouTube August 29. Or Go to bakerhouse1921.com/challenge to tune in. Chapters: 0:00 Intro: Joe McConaughy is a new dad, trail runner, and race director 1:24 From D1 college miler to Googling "run the Pacific Crest Trail" 2:54 2,600 miles in 53 days: How the PCT speed record happened at age 22 5:08 Miles over smiles vs. smiles over miles 6:37 The 50-to-90% grind zone where every race is won or lost 10:01 Joe De Sena's group hallucination 11:57 The 508-mile bike race through Death Valley 15:44 The boogeyman at Big Bear 18:14 Why you fall to your lowest level without external pressure 19:52 Rachel winning Cocodona 250 21:26 How far past homeostasis can you actually push before everything breaks? 22:19 Third attempt on the John Muir Trail FKT and life as a new dad 24:35 Three things every person should do to get more out of life 26:35 Where to find Joe McConaughy Joe McConaughy was a D1 college miler who had never raced anything longer than a mile when he Googled "run the Pacific Crest Trail" at 22 years old. 53 days later, he held the 2,600-mile speed record. Since then, he has set the John Muir Trail (JMT) fastest known time in 70 hours, raced the Cocodona 250, and competed at the front of elite 100-mile fields across the country. Joe is a trail-running coach, a race director with Mountain Running Races, and a new dad. Connect to Joe: Website: https://thestringbean.co/about/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thestring.bean/?hl=en Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thestringbean1/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joemcconaughy/

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Mike Sarraille on Leaving Delta Force, Scaling a Company to 500, and Why Entrepreneurship Is the Real Fight

Mike Sarraille served 20 years in special operations as a Recon Marine, scout sniper, Navy SEAL, and troop commander in Delta Force. He graduated number one out of three hundred in Marine boot camp, fought in some of the worst firefights of the Iraq War, and broke four world records skydiving across seven continents in under seven days. Then he started a company. Joe De Sena sits down with Mike to hear why he says building a business with no budget and no guaranteed resources is harder than anything he faced in combat, how he scaled a data center staffing company from fifty employees to five hundred in eighteen months, and what the tier-one military teaches about team performance that most corporate leaders get wrong. Things You Will Learn: Why a Delta Force troop commander says entrepreneurship tested him more than combat, and what specific skills transferred and which did not. The difference between warfighters and warriors, and why combining both creates the leaders people actually follow. Why productive conflict inside a high-performing team is the system itself, not a sign that something is broken. Tools & Frameworks Covered: Shared Hardship Bonding: Psychology shows that teams bonded through shared adversity build trust that cannot be replicated through offsites or team dinners. Find controlled hardship your team can experience together. Iron Sharpens Iron Selection: Always find a group where you are the underperformer. Clear the bar they hold as the standard. Then find the next group above that. Conflict as Operating System: High-performing teams fight over ideas constantly. The mission prevails, not individual egos. If everyone agrees all the time, the team is underperforming. 'Heads up! I'll be a judge at The Baker House Challenge - A live entrepreneurship and real estate pitch competition where founders put real deals in front of Myself, Richard Baker, Adam Weitsman for a shot at $20,000 in prizes. Watch the full competition live here on YouTube August 29. Or Go to bakerhouse1921.com/challenge to tune in. Chapters: 0:00 Intro 1:38 Twenty years of special operations and what came after 3:00 Sports that built the foundation 3:52 The kid who was impossible to wrangle and the quick end to college 5:08 His dad's reaction to enlisting and how graduating number one changed everything 5:53 Would one year of mandatory service change the country overnight 7:13 Why hard work and perspective are the only paths to gratitude 8:05 Shared hardship builds bonds that cannot be broken 9:54 Marines vs. SEALs vs. Delta 11:54 Why his medals are buried in a box he cannot find 13:52 Iron sharpens iron: tell me who your friends are, and I will tell you who you are 15:13 From military to data centers 16:12 I would rather go back to war ten times than start another company 17:22 The military does not have the monopoly on the warrior mindset 18:14 The worst feeling in business: doing a reduction in force because you failed 19:00 How to find Mike 19:26 Three books: The Talent War, The Everyday Warrior, and Teams 20:30 Conflict is the system, not a failure of it 21:50 Skydiving seven continents in six days, four world records Mike Sarraille spent twenty years in special operations: first as a Recon Marine and scout sniper, then as a Navy SEAL officer, and finally as a troop commander at Delta Force. He graduated number one out of three hundred in Marine boot camp, deployed multiple times to Iraq, and led the Triple Seven Expedition, skydiving across all seven continents in six days, six hours, and six minutes to break four world records. After leaving the military, he built and sold an executive search firm, wrote three books, The Talent War, The Everyday Warrior, and Teams, and now serves as Chief Talent Officer at Overwatch, a data center staffing company he scaled from fifty to five hundred employees in under eighteen months. He ranked number three globally for leadership speaking. Connect to Michael: Website: https://mikesarraille.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mr.sarraille/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelsarraille

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John Kelly on the Barkley Marathons, Quitting From the Lead, and Training for Real Adversity

Only twenty people have finished the Barkley Marathons in forty years. John Kelly has finished it twice. But between those two finishes, he quit from first place after two loops because he already knew what the remaining sixty hours would cost, and it did not seem worth it. Joe De Sena sits down with John, an ultra runner who has covered 260 miles through January storms on the Pennine Way, chased the Appalachian Trail speed record for 1,900 miles before injury stopped him 300 miles short, and built an altitude chamber in his home office to fix the one weakness his body refused to train away. They break down the difference between short-race decay and ultra-distance recovery cycles, why the sunk-cost fallacy can actually keep you alive past mile eighty, and how Kelly applied the resilience he built through running when Hurricane Helene destroyed his community. Things You Will Learn: The difference between short-race decay and ultra-distance low points and why confusing them causes most DNFs. Why the runner who quit from first place at the hardest race on earth came back and finished it two more times. A three-part framework for pushing through collapse: zoom out, zoom in, and treat the low point as the lesson. Tools & Frameworks Covered: Zoom Out / Zoom In: When you hit a low, zoom out to remember everything you invested and why quitting now would waste it. Then zoom in to the next step, the next hill, the next aid station. Toggle between the two as needed. Voluntary Artificial Adversity: Deliberately choose controlled suffering in training and racing so that when real adversity arrives, the resilience muscle is already trained. Reframe the Goal After First Success: Once you have proven you can finish, shift the motivation from "Can I do this?" to "How much can I learn about myself?" If this episode moved you, do not just listen. Do something about it. Sign up. Show up. Do the work. Spartan.com. No more excuses. Chapters: 0:00 Intro: John Kelly is running from an altitude chamber in his office 0:50 Finishing Barkley twice and how long he has been running 1:17 How fast can you still run a mile at 140 pounds 1:43 Nutrition changes as an aging ultra runner 2:07 The difference between training for a marathon and training for a hundred miler 2:21 Short-race decay vs. ultra-distance low points 3:48 David Horton's advice: it does not always get worse 4:12 Growing up in rural East Tennessee with no running culture 5:01 The kid who wanted to be a great explorer 6:06 Why mountains look different at running pace than at highway speed 7:21 The Barkley Marathons: 120 miles, 70,000 feet of elevation, 20 finishers in 40 years 9:08 The Appalachian Trail speed record attempt 10:09 Why the investment before the race determines grit inside the race 11:47 Four strategies for getting through the worst moments in a hundred miler 14:00 Quitting from first place at Barkley 14:27 Shifting from "Can I finish?" to "What can I learn about myself?" 15:15 Western States 100 and the shift back to speed 16:16 The Spine Race in January: why the worst conditions strip you to your core 17:02 The altitude chamber: an 8x8x8 cube simulating 14,000 feet 17:54 Why altitude resilience is DNA and adaptation, not just fitness 19:48 Three lessons from a man who runs unreasonable distances 20:05 Do not underestimate yourself 21:00 Voluntary artificial adversity: training the resilience muscle before you need it 22:07 Hurricane Helene destroyed his community and ultra running prepared him 23:06 Alex Honnold on missing a flight: perspective as a survival skill John Kelly is one of the most respected ultrarunners in the world, known for mastering the brutal Barkley Marathons while balancing life as a Tech Co-founder, machine learning expert, and father of four. In 2024, he became only the second person ever to finish Barkley three times, proving elite performance doesn't require a full-time athlete lifestyle. John approaches endurance like an engineering problem, using data, systems, and relentless experimentation to push beyond human limits. His story blends resilience, failure, discipline, and the pursuit of impossible challenges. Connect to John: Website: https://randomforestrunner.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/randomforestrunner/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RandomForestRunner/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellyjw

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Suicide Prevention, Toxic Environments, and the Phone Call That Saved a Marine: Lee Stuckey

A Marine officer, professional MMA fighter, and jiu-jitsu practitioner came home from his third combat deployment in Mosul and sat down at a table with a loaded Glock. His mother called his phone at the exact second he began to pull the trigger. Joe De Sena sits down with Lee Stuckey, founder of America's Heroes Enjoying Recreation Outdoors (AHERO), a nonprofit that has served over 13,000 veterans and stopped more than 600 suicides in 16 years. Lee breaks down how he rebuilt after nearly taking his own life, why he swapped every toxic relationship in his circle for someone healthy, and how a four-pillar framework became the structure that holds his life together. Things You Will Learn: Why controlling your environment and your circle changes your trajectory faster than willpower alone. The four-pillar framework Lee Stuckey uses to audit his physical, financial, emotional, and spiritual health every week. What a one-for-one relationship swap looks like and why it forces accountability into your daily life. Tools & Frameworks Covered: One-for-One Swap: Remove one parasitic or toxic relationship and deliberately replace it with someone who helps you grow across four pillars. Four-Pillar Weekly Audit: Physical, financial, emotional, spiritual. Sit down weekly with your family or team and assess each one. Get 1% better daily with a deliberate plan. CEO Family Meeting: Block your calendar for family first. Let your spouse fill priority dates before anyone else gets access. Structure your household like a mission. If this episode moved you, do not just listen. Do something about it. Sign up. Show up. Do the work. Spartan.com. No more excuses. Chapters: 00:00 Intro: Marine, MMA fighter, and the man behind A Hero 01:35 Military school, Staff Sergeant Sutton, and enlisting as a machine gunner 04:24 How Lee reconciled faith with combat 06:12 Why suicide permanently destroys the family left behind 09:23 Controlling your environment: the VA nurse and the one-for-one swap 12:15 Jiu-jitsu mat or the bar 13:57 Third deployment, a loaded Glock, and the phone call that stopped the trigger 18:31 AHERO Records: veterans turning trauma into three-minute songs 20:21 The four-pillar framework and CEO family meetings 22:45 How to find A Hero and get involved Lee Stuckey went from a mischievous kid facing juvenile detention to a Marine infantry machine gunner, commissioned officer, professional MMA fighter, and Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt under Carlos Machado. After three combat deployments, he came home carrying injuries, insomnia, and alcohol dependence that nearly ended his life. In August 2009, a phone call from his mother stopped him at the moment he began pulling the trigger. That night became the foundation of AHERO America's Heroes Enjoying Recreation Outdoors a nonprofit that has served over 13,000 veterans, stopped more than 600 suicides, placed 62 people into treatment, and launched AHERO Records, a label where veterans turn trauma into songs with Grammy-winning songwriters. Connect to Karl: Website: https://leestuckeylegacy.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/leestuckeylegacy/

Karl Meltzer on Running 100 Hundred-Milers, the DNFs That Haunt Him, and Why Anyone Can Do It

Ninety-four 100-mile races finished. 14 DNFs. A bartending shift that turned into a Red Bull sponsorship. Karl Meltzer, known as the "Speedgoat," sits down with Joe De Sena to talk about what it actually takes to keep showing up to the start line at 58 years old. They break down his mental strategy for surviving the darkest hours of a hundred-miler, the races he dropped out of, why 11 of his 14 DNFs were mental, and what that taught him about headspace. Karl walks through the three non-negotiables he gives anyone who wants to stay in the game: get outside every day, build a routine you protect, and keep moving even when the first ten minutes fight you. Things You Will Learn: A single-word mental reset that keeps you moving when everything in your body says quit. Why most DNFs are mental, not physical and what that means for your own breaking points. The three daily non-negotiables that sustain performance across decades, not just seasons. Tools & Frameworks Covered: The Blink Reset: When suffering peaks, compress your timeline. Tomorrow at this time, you will be done. That reframe keeps your legs moving now. Headspace Audit: If your mind is checked out before the start line, the race is already lost. Identify whether the resistance is physical or mental before you act on it. Three-Point Daily Standard: Get outside. Protect your routine. Start moving even when the first ten minutes resist you. Consistency across years beats intensity across weeks. If this episode moved you, do not just listen. Do something about it. Sign up. Show up. Do the work. Spartan.com. No more excuses. Chapters: 00:00 Intro: 94 hundred-milers and counting 01:23 How Karl Meltzer found his distance at 100 miles 03:00 The bartending shift that landed a Red Bull sponsorship 04:36 Why luck only works if you follow up 07:58 Going from 71 to 100 finishes raising the bar at 58 10:15 What Karl tells people who have never run 100 miles 11:15 The dark place: how to fight the urge to quit at mile 60 13:00 The DNFs that still haunt him and what headspace really costs 15:01 Three daily non-negotiables: outside, routine, and just start 17:29 Nutrition, burgers, and refusing to be methodical 20:36 What Karl would tell his 10-year-old self 21:40 The plan to reach 100: Hard Rock, Wasatch, and the final six Karl Meltzer, known as "Speedgoat," is the most accomplished 100-mile trail runner in history, with 50 wins at the distance and nearly 100 career 100-mile finishes. Over a 25-year career, he has built a reputation for treating extreme suffering as a mechanical problem to be solved rather than a reason to quit. From failing twice before conquering the Appalachian Trail FKT to redefining what elite endurance looks like in his 50s, Karl represents resilience, longevity, and relentless discipline. His story is about consistency, mental toughness, and finding what actually works instead of following trends. Connect to Karl: Website: https://karlmeltzer.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meltzerkarl/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MeltzerKarl/

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Tina Seelig on Luck, Gratitude, and Why Your Phone Is Killing Your Opportunities

A Stanford professor who has spent 27 years studying how opportunity works says the device in your pocket is destroying your luck. Tina Seelig, PhD in neuroscience, builder of Stanford's entrepreneurship center, and author of What I Wish I Knew About Luck, sits down with Joe De Sena to break apart the difference between fortune and luck. Tina explains why saying hello to a stranger in line has launched friendships, businesses, and marriages. She also shares the story of a thank-you letter that was read at a professor's funeral 20 years after it was written, and talks about the time she was caught acting as a corporate spy because she had never defined her own values. Things You Will Learn: The difference between fortune and luck, and where your agency actually lives. Why a sincere thank you is the shortest distance to unlocking new opportunity. What happens to your decision-making when you skip defining your core values. Tools & Frameworks Covered: Luck vs. Fortune Distinction: Fortune is what happens to you. Luck is what you build through decisions, energy, and engagement. The Anti-Luck Device Test: If you walk through your day with headphones in and eyes on a screen, you are closing doors you will never know existed. Gratitude as a Compounding Asset: A sincere thank you reopens closed loops, rebuilds bridges, and creates opportunities that transactional networking never will. If this episode moved you, do not just listen. Do something about it. Sign up. Show up. Do the work. Spartan.com. No more excuses. Chapters: 00:00 Intro 00:00 Intro: Joe De Sena introduces Tina Seelig and the luck question 01:08 Fortune vs. luck: why the distinction changes everything 01:40 Every decision unlocks the next one, and saying hello opens doors 02:51 The backpack that started a lifelong friendship in an airport line 04:04 A Spartan t-shirt at Cornell that led to a marriage 05:39 Can you manufacture energy or is it innate? 07:00 Why staying a little hungry creates more energy 10:07 Why you need a team 10:53 The 6:30 a.m. Sunday workout that put Joe next to an eleven-billion-dollar contact 12:05 Adding randomness to your life as a luck strategy 14:05 Why people have forgotten how to say thank you 15:55 A thank you letter read at a professor's funeral 20 years later 19:43 The sambuca story: why older people need to hear thank you most 20:27 Recap: energy, gratitude, showing up, and taking opportunities 22:21 Why strong values build trust and attract investment from others 22:44 Where to find Tina Seelig and the book Tina Seelig is a Stanford professor, entrepreneur, and bestselling author who has spent her career helping people unlock creativity, innovation, and leadership potential. After earning a PhD in neuroscience, she navigated multiple careers across consulting, technology, entrepreneurship, and academia before becoming one of Stanford's leading voices on innovation. Her work focuses on creativity, entrepreneurship, and mindset development, teaching people how to turn uncertainty into opportunity and transform challenges into growth. Connect to Tina: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tina.seelig/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tinaseelig/ Twitter/X: https://x.com/tseelig

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Joel Del Rosario on Surviving an IED in Iraq, Losing His Memory, and Owning Every Decision After

Joel Del Rosario enlisted in the Marine Corps in 2005 because a girl asked him to. She left him with a Dear John letter while he was deployed to Iraq. Then an IED nearly killed him. His mother received an incorrect killed-in-action notification and believed her son was dead for 24 hours. When Joel came to after the blast, shrapnel in his body and a traumatic brain injury that erased most of his memories, he was not relieved. He was angry that he survived. That disgust with his own reaction became the turning point. He chose ownership. Nobody forced him to enlist. That was his decision. And from that moment, he committed to 21 years of service instead of coasting to the exit. Joe De Sena sits down with Joel to talk about growing up in the Dominican Republic, a tough Latina single mother in Providence, the blast that rewired his brain, and the law-enforcement fitness mission he now runs alongside his wife, Rebecca, through Iron Stronghold LLC and MCHN. Things You Will Learn: Why taking ownership of a bad decision matters more than the decision itself. The difference between surviving hardship and choosing to build from it. A simple daily framework for building mental toughness without needing a traumatic event. Tools & Frameworks Covered: Daily Hard Thing Protocol: Pick one hard thing each day and do it. Hard is relative. Consistency compounds. Ownership After the Blast: Stop blaming the circumstance. You made the choice. Now make the next one count. Recovery as Performance: Sleep and recovery are not optional. Emotional regulation, resilience, and physical capacity all degrade without them. If this episode moved you, do not just listen. Do something about it. Sign up. Show up. Do the work. Spartan.com. No more excuses. Chapters: 00:00 Intro: Joel Del Rosario, retired Marine and kettlebell athlete 01:53 Growing up in the Dominican Republic and low-income housing in Providence 04:02 Hard mode: why childhood adversity resets the scale 04:56 Drugs, a tough Latina mom, and consequences that stuck 08:07 Joining the Marines for a girl and the cost of that decision 09:45 Boot camp, School of Infantry, and deploying to Iraq in 2007 11:56 His mom was told he was killed in action for 24 hours 13:18 The TBI erased most of his life before the blast 17:01 Bloom where you're planted and one foot in front of the other 18:50 The kettlebell: compact training for deployments on a Navy ship 21:44 Why law enforcement faces worse than most military and gets less support 25:17 Using Spartan events as target dates for uniformed services 25:48 Three things to do every day: hard thing, push harder, get sleep 28:31 Set your alarm at night, not in the morning Joel Del Rosario is an elite endurance athlete specializing in trail running, mountain racing, and obstacle course competitions, known for consistently pushing his physical and mental limits in extreme environments. Through his journey, he represents resilience, discipline, and community, using his platform to inspire others to embrace discomfort, pursue adventure, and grow through consistent effort and challenge. Connect to Joel: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joellerblades/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Joellerblades

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11 Years Pro Soccer: Hugh Roberts on Getting Benched, Training Alone, and Never Quitting

Spartan Race started as an idea written on a napkin during a financial crisis. No business plan. Limited money. No guarantee any of it would work. Brian Duncanson, one of the original architects behind Spartan, sits down with Joe De Sena to walk through the real origin story: a meeting in Hartford in December 2009, the decision to fire before aiming, and a ragtag team that turned mud and barbed wire into a global brand operating in 45 countries. They break down the Fenway Stadium gamble Joe did not want to take, the pandemic pivot that forced DECA into a box, and why the strongest ideas at Spartan came when resources were thinnest. Brian also introduces his book, Becoming Spartan: Leveraging Friction to Forge, Scale, and Outlast, and explains what seventeen years of building under pressure taught him about action, constraint, and the 1% daily grind. Things You Will Learn: Why the strongest business innovations at Spartan came from resource constraints rather than abundance. The fire-ready-aim approach that turned a napkin sketch into a global endurance brand during a financial crisis. What breaking a massive goal into checkpoint-sized commitments does for focus, execution, and follow-through. Tools & Frameworks Covered: Two Bike Math: When you lose a resource, the team that adapts fastest wins. Constraint forces innovation you would never find in comfort. Fire Ready Aim: Stop planning. Launch small. Test in the market. Adjust under pressure. The plan improves only after contact with reality. Checkpoint Navigation: Break the hundred-mile goal into five-mile segments. Solve the first one. Then move to the next. Momentum compounds. If this episode moved you, do not just listen. Do something about it. Sign up. Show up. Do the work. Spartan.com. No more excuses. Chapters: 00:00 Intro: Joe and Brian Duncanson go back to the late 1990s 01:04 How adventure racing on TV changed Brian's corporate life 03:50 Why adventure racing was too expensive and too hard to scale 05:19 Joe at nine years old: destroying a park to build a BMX track 07:07 Leaving Wall Street: Joe stops feeling alive at the trading desk 08:01 Financial crisis, biking across America, and a friend's death on the road 09:17 The Hartford napkin: December 2009 and the birth of Spartan 12:44 The ragtag team that invented the spear throw and rope climb 14:31 The Fenway Stadium gamble Joe did not want to take 16:35 Complacency kills: why backs-against-the-wall moments drive the best work 17:58 Eight kids staring at devices and three playing hacky sack 20:52 Kids chose their phones over ice cream and watched it melt 22:14 Burning through cash to build a global brand, then doing it again after the pandemic 25:03 Brian's book: how Spartan stories became business lessons 28:50 Why sitting around planning kills more ideas than launching ugly 29:56 Action as the antidote: checkpoints, calendars, and the first five miles 33:05 Hammering metal into a sword: the 1% daily grind that outlasts shortcuts Brian Duncanson is a longtime Spartan community member, endurance athlete, and event producer who has spent years embracing unpredictable challenges and pushing beyond comfort zones. Having competed in more than 50 adventure races while producing over 150 race events, Brian has built a life around resilience, leadership, and taking on difficult challenges. His story highlights endurance, adaptability, and the mindset required to keep showing up when things get hard. Connect to Brian: Website: https://linktr.ee/brian_duncanson Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brianduncanson LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-duncanson-6825971a Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0H2RCLPLG

Building How Brian Duncanson Helped Turn a Napkin Idea Into Spartan Race

Spartan Race started as an idea written on a napkin during a financial crisis. No business plan. Limited money. No guarantee any of it would work. Brian Duncanson, one of the original architects behind Spartan, sits down with Joe De Sena to walk through the real origin story: a meeting in Hartford in December 2009, the decision to fire before aiming, and a ragtag team that turned mud and barbed wire into a global brand operating in 45 countries. They break down the Fenway Stadium gamble Joe did not want to take, the pandemic pivot that forced DECA into a box, and why the strongest ideas at Spartan came when resources were thinnest. Brian also introduces his book, Becoming Spartan: Leveraging Friction to Forge, Scale, and Outlast, and explains what seventeen years of building under pressure taught him about action, constraint, and the 1% daily grind. Things You Will Learn: Why the strongest business innovations at Spartan came from resource constraints rather than abundance. The fire-ready-aim approach that turned a napkin sketch into a global endurance brand during a financial crisis. What breaking a massive goal into checkpoint-sized commitments does for focus, execution, and follow-through. Tools & Frameworks Covered: Two Bike Math: When you lose a resource, the team that adapts fastest wins. Constraint forces innovation you would never find in comfort. Fire Ready Aim: Stop planning. Launch small. Test in the market. Adjust under pressure. The plan improves only after contact with reality. Checkpoint Navigation: Break the hundred-mile goal into five-mile segments. Solve the first one. Then move to the next. Momentum compounds. If this episode moved you, do not just listen. Do something about it. Sign up. Show up. Do the work. Spartan.com. No more excuses. Chapters: 00:00 Intro: Joe and Brian Duncanson go back to the late 1990s 01:04 How adventure racing on TV changed Brian's corporate life 03:50 Why adventure racing was too expensive and too hard to scale 05:19 Joe at nine years old: destroying a park to build a BMX track 07:07 Leaving Wall Street: Joe stops feeling alive at the trading desk 08:01 Financial crisis, biking across America, and a friend's death on the road 09:17 The Hartford napkin: December 2009 and the birth of Spartan 12:44 The ragtag team that invented the spear throw and rope climb 14:31 The Fenway Stadium gamble Joe did not want to take 16:35 Complacency kills: why backs-against-the-wall moments drive the best work 17:58 Eight kids staring at devices and three playing hacky sack 20:52 Kids chose their phones over ice cream and watched it melt 22:14 Burning through cash to build a global brand, then doing it again after the pandemic 25:03 Brian's book: how Spartan stories became business lessons 28:50 Why sitting around planning kills more ideas than launching ugly 29:56 Action as the antidote: checkpoints, calendars, and the first five miles 33:05 Hammering metal into a sword: the 1% daily grind that outlasts shortcuts Brian Duncanson is a longtime Spartan community member, endurance athlete, and event producer who has spent years embracing unpredictable challenges and pushing beyond comfort zones. Having competed in more than 50 adventure races while producing over 150 race events, Brian has built a life around resilience, leadership, and taking on difficult challenges. His story highlights endurance, adaptability, and the mindset required to keep showing up when things get hard. Connect to Brian: Website: https://linktr.ee/brian_duncanson Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brianduncanson LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-duncanson-6825971a Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0H2RCLPLG

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Down Syndrome, Ironman Triathlons, and Never Quitting: Robert Norris on Doing the Work

A doctor said he needed knee surgery. He said no. Robert Norris is 22 years old, has Down syndrome, and completes Ironman triathlons without a guide. He taught himself to ride a bike, swam with Navy SEALs in the Hudson River, ran the Boston Marathon through bloody blisters, and trains daily with a volume most able-bodied athletes never touch: 80-mile bike rides, 10-mile runs, 2100-yard swims. Joe De Sena sits down with Robert and his mother, Wanda, a retired Navy veteran, to unpack how a slipped kneecap became a turning point, why Robert refuses to quit under any condition, and what happens when a young man with an extra chromosome decides the hard way is the only way. This episode delivers a direct challenge: if Robert Norris can show up every single day without excuses, what is stopping you? Things You Will Learn: Why a physical setback can become the trigger for a higher standard instead of a retreat. The structure behind a non-negotiable daily routine that eliminates the need for motivation. What consistent action proves to the people who expect you to stop. Tools & Frameworks Covered: Setback-to-Standard Conversion: Use injury or adversity as the catalyst for a higher training commitment, not a reason to stop. Non-Negotiable Daily Structure: Wake time, bedtime, training order, and nutrition are locked in. Remove decision fatigue. Execute the plan. Progressive Proof of Capability: Start with one mile. Then eighteen. Then a hundred. Let results silence doubt. If this episode moved you, do not just listen. Do something about it. Sign up. Show up. Do the work. Spartan.com. No more excuses. Robert Norris is a Guinness World Record–holding endurance athlete who redefined limits by becoming the first athlete with Down syndrome to complete a full Ironman triathlon independently, setting the fastest time in his category. His journey represents relentless discipline, the breaking of perceived limitations, and the building of an unshakable mindset through years of preparation and adversity. Connect to Robert: Website: https://www.robertnorrismanofiron.com/about Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/robertnorrismanofiron/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/robert.norris.432406/ YouTube: http://youtube.com/@GETFITWIthRobert-21 ꚠ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@robertnorrismanofiron? We gave you the tools, now use them during your next SPARTAN RACE! Use codeword PODCAST on checkout for 10% your next race. 👉 Find Your Next Spartan Race: https://www.spartan.com/en/race/find-race 👉 For everything Spartan: https://www.spartan.com/ Rise and Thrive with Essentia. Don't just sleep, recover, perform, and wake up ready for anything. Essentia's certified organic Beyond Latex™ mattresses provide deep, restorative sleep without toxic chemicals, allergens, or compromises. Use code SPARTAN25 at myessentia.com. 🎧 Listen & Subscribe: 👉 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hard-way-with-joe-de-sena/id952870930 👉 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1pYBkk1T684YQg7CmoaAZt 📲 Short, Impactful Content 👉 Instagram: @spartanuppodcast 👉 From me directly: @realjoedesena The Hard Way Podcast With Joe De Sena, Hosted by Joe De Sena, founder and CEO of Spartan, this podcast delves into the principles of resilience, discipline, and the Spartan mindset. De Sena's journey from building a multimillion-dollar pool cleaning business in his teens to establishing a successful Wall Street trading firm showcases his entrepreneurial spirit. In 2001, he transitioned from finance to operate an organic farm in Pittsfield, Vermont, where his passion for endurance events like ultramarathons and adventure races flourished. This led to the creation of Spartan, aiming to inspire individuals to embrace challenges and push their limits.

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Herb Thompson on Leaving Safety, Owning Your Journey, and Earning the Green Beret

Herb Thompson had already made it. He was Drill Sergeant of the Year, on a clear path to a top enlisted career, and could have stayed where it was safe. He didn't. In this conversation with Joe De Sena, Special Forces veteran Herb Thompson explains why he walked away from the secure path to chase the dream he had since childhood: becoming a Green Beret. Herb breaks down fear of failure, why most people talk instead of act, how he survived Special Forces selection without feedback, and what it took to rebuild purpose after retirement. This episode is about ownership, sacrifice, and performance under uncertainty. You will leave with practical rules for taking action, handling discomfort, and building a life around what you are willing to earn. Things You Will Learn: Why ownership matters more than motivation when the goal gets hard. How to break overwhelming pressure into small, winnable steps. Why sacrifice, not talk, is what turns a dream into a result. Tools & Frameworks Covered: Own Your Journey Rule: puts responsibility for progress back on you. Small Chunk Execution: breaks hard goals into immediate next steps under pressure. Sacrifice Filter: clarifies what you are willing to give up to earn what you want. If this episode moved you, don't just listen. Do something about it. Sign up. Show up. Do the work. Spartan.com. No more excuses. Herb Thompson is the only person in Army history to earn both Drill Sergeant of the Year and the Green Beret, a path built on hardship, childhood trauma, and a refusal to quit under extreme pressure. His journey spans combat missions, brutal selection courses, and a post-military identity rebuild that demanded a new kind of discipline. Herb now helps high performers redefine purpose beyond titles through writing, speaking, and leadership development. Connect to Herb: Website: https://libertyspeaks.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/herb-thompson-libertyspeaks/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/_ownyourjourney_ The Transition Mission Book: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B082RL1SJ2 We gave you the tools, now use them during your next SPARTAN RACE! Use codeword PODCAST on checkout for 10% your next race. 👉 Find Your Next Spartan Race: https://www.spartan.com/en/race/find-race 👉 For everything Spartan: https://www.spartan.com/ Rise and Thrive with Essentia. Don't just sleep, recover, perform, and wake up ready for anything. Essentia's certified organic Beyond Latex™ mattresses provide deep, restorative sleep without toxic chemicals, allergens, or compromises. Use code SPARTAN25 at myessentia.com. 🎧 Listen & Subscribe: 👉 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hard-way-with-joe-de-sena/id952870930 👉 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1pYBkk1T684YQg7CmoaAZt 📲 Short, Impactful Content 👉 Instagram: @spartanuppodcast 👉 From me directly: @realjoedesena The Hard Way Podcast With Joe De Sena, Hosted by Joe De Sena, founder and CEO of Spartan, this podcast delves into the principles of resilience, discipline, and the Spartan mindset. De Sena's journey from building a multimillion-dollar pool cleaning business in his teens to establishing a successful Wall Street trading firm showcases his entrepreneurial spirit. In 2001, he transitioned from finance to operate an organic farm in Pittsfield, Vermont, where his passion for endurance events like ultramarathons and adventure races flourished. This led to the creation of Spartan, aiming to inspire individuals to embrace challenges and push their limits.

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Four Warriors on Combat, Survival, and What It Takes to Keep Going When Everything Breaks

Nine soldiers in a hilltop position. Rocket-propelled grenades and machine gun fire from every direction. Seven killed. One man left on the radio, calling for help that was not coming. That is where this episode begins. In this Memorial Day special of The Hard Way, Joe De Sena sits down with four men who faced the most extreme physical and mental breaking points a human being can endure. Medal of Honor recipient Ryan Pitts fought alone and was wounded at a remote observation post in Afghanistan after losing seven teammates around him. Navy SEAL leader Leif Babin breaks down how extreme ownership and the refusal to quit create an advantage when everyone else is suffering. Navy pilot Keegan Gill was ejected from a fighter jet at 695 miles per hour, shattered nearly every major bone in his body, and spent two hours drowning in the Atlantic. Green Beret Nick Lavery lost his leg to machine gun fire in Afghanistan, then fought his way back to become the first above-knee amputee to return to active duty special operations. Each story delivers a concrete lesson in endurance under fire, ownership of outcomes, and the decision to keep going when quitting is the logical choice. Things You Will Learn: Why the person who hangs on one minute longer is the one who wins. What extreme ownership looks like in combat and why it builds lasting toughness in any environment. Why asking for help is not a weakness, and why the toughest operators on the planet treat mental health the same as a broken ankle. Tools & Frameworks Covered: Outlast the Field: You do not need to be the best. You need to be the last one still moving when everyone else stops. Extreme Ownership: Own every failure. Share every lesson. The ego hit is temporary. The growth is permanent. Burn the Boats Standard: No Plan B. Meet the standard or die trying. Gray area does not exist at the highest level. If this episode moved you, do not just listen. Do something about it. Sign up. Show up. Do the work. Spartan.com. No more excuses. Guests Bios: Ryan Pitts: Medal of Honor recipient. On July 13, 2008, at a remote observation post in Wanat, Afghanistan, Pitts was wounded in the opening seconds of a massive enemy assault that killed seven of his fellow soldiers. Alone and bleeding, he continued fighting and called for reinforcements on the radio, holding his position until help arrived. He was 22 years old. Pitts spent a year recovering at Walter Reed and has since dedicated himself to sharing the stories of the men who fought beside him and the importance of seeking help when the fight follows you home. Leif Babin: Former Navy SEAL officer and co-author of Extreme Ownership. Babin led SEAL operations in Ramadi, Iraq, during some of the most intense urban combat of the war. He lost teammates in action and carried those lessons into leadership consulting, teaching that owning your failures — not hiding them — is the foundation of real toughness and lasting performance. Keegan Gill: Former Navy fighter pilot. During a training exercise over the Atlantic, a system malfunction sent his jet into an unrecoverable dive. He ejected at 695 miles per hour, two seconds from impact. The force shattered both arms, both legs, broke his neck, and caused a traumatic brain injury. His parachute release malfunctioned, and he spent two hours being drowned by his own chute in freezing water before rescue. He woke up two weeks later in a trauma center. Nick Lavery: Green Beret and the first above-knee amputee to return to active duty special operations. On his third deployment to Afghanistan, machine gun fire destroyed his right leg. From his hospital bed, he committed to returning to his team with no backup plan. After two years of rehabilitation and 14 weeks of assessment, he returned to the same team that was with him when he was wounded and deployed back to Afghanistan seven weeks later. He served 20 years total. We gave you the tools, now use them during your next SPARTAN RACE! Use codeword PODCAST on checkout for 10% your next race. 👉 Find Your Next Spartan Race: https://www.spartan.com/en/race/find-race 👉 For everything Spartan: https://www.spartan.com/ Rise and Thrive with Essentia. Don't just sleep, recover, perform, and wake up ready for anything. Essentia's certified organic Beyond Latex™ mattresses provide deep, restorative sleep without toxic chemicals, allergens, or compromises. Use code SPARTAN25 at myessentia.com. 🎧 Listen & Subscribe: 👉 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hard-way-with-joe-de-sena/id952870930 👉 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1pYBkk1T684YQg7CmoaAZt 📲 Short, Impactful Content 👉 Instagram: @spartanuppodcast 👉 From me directly: @realjoedesena The Hard Way Podcast With Joe De Sena, Hosted by Joe De Sena, founder and CEO of Spartan, this podcast delves into the principles of resilience, discipline, and the Spartan mindset. De Sena's journey from building a multimillion-dollar pool cleaning business in his teens to establishing a successful Wall Street trading firm showcases his entrepreneurial spirit. In 2001, he transitioned from finance to operate an organic farm in Pittsfield, Vermont, where his passion for endurance events like ultramarathons and adventure races flourished. This led to the creation of Spartan, aiming to inspire individuals to embrace challenges and push their limits.

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From Crack Binges to Service: Matt Grace on Addiction, Enabling, and the Moment Everything Changed

At 29 years old, Matt Grace weighed 129 pounds and walked into his mother's house after a three-day crack and alcohol binge. She told him that if he was going to die, it would not be in her house. That was the boundary that started everything. On this episode of The Hard Way, Joe De Sena sits down with Matt Grace, author of God Doesn't Relapse: Sex, Drugs, and the Life That Almost Killed Me, a former ABC TV reporter who overdosed in a newsroom and spent 13 years destroying every relationship through addiction, manipulation, and enabling. Matt breaks down how his father's well-intentioned spoiling robbed him of grit and ambition, how his family's enabling nearly killed him, and what happened the morning he got on his knees with a rifle beside him and prayed out of sheer desperation. They also dig into why parents loving their kids too much can be a death sentence, why service is the foundation of lasting recovery, and how structured accountability and community pull people out of destruction. Things You Will Learn: Why enabling and over-providing destroys a young person's ambition and capacity to endure hardship. The difference between a boundary that saves a life and a rescue that ends one, and what it takes to hold the line. Why service and community replace the void that addiction fills, and why recovery without purpose does not hold. Tools & Frameworks Covered: Hard Boundary Setting: Draw the line. Hold the line. Let consequences teach what words cannot. Service as Structure: Replace self-obsession with outward action. One hour helping someone else is one hour not destroying yourself. Earned Identity Over Given Identity: Stop handing outcomes to your kids. Let them grind. Let them earn. The struggle builds the person. If this episode moved you, do not just listen. Do something about it. Sign up. Show up. Do the work. Spartan.com. No more excuses. Matt Grace is an author and transformational recovery expert who has spent more than two decades sober after overcoming addiction himself. With a degree in Addiction Studies and over 10,000 hours mentoring individuals and families, he has dedicated his life to helping people break destructive cycles and rebuild their lives. His work focuses on long-term sobriety, mindset transformation, and guiding people through the difficult but necessary process of reclaiming responsibility and purpose. Connect to Matt: Website: https://mattgrace.com/ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@mattsavinggrace TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@MattSavingGrace Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mattsavinggrace/ God Doesn't Relapse: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/God-Doesnt-Relapse/Matt-Grace/9781637635506 We gave you the tools, now use them during your next SPARTAN RACE! Use codeword PODCAST on checkout for 10% your next race. 👉 Find Your Next Spartan Race: https://www.spartan.com/en/race/find-race 👉 For everything Spartan: https://www.spartan.com/ Rise and Thrive with Essentia. Don't just sleep, recover, perform, and wake up ready for anything. Essentia's certified organic Beyond Latex™ mattresses provide deep, restorative sleep without toxic chemicals, allergens, or compromises. Use code SPARTAN25 at myessentia.com. 🎧 Listen & Subscribe: 👉 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hard-way-with-joe-de-sena/id952870930 👉 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1pYBkk1T684YQg7CmoaAZt 📲 Short, Impactful Content 👉 Instagram: @spartanuppodcast 👉 From me directly: @realjoedesena The Hard Way Podcast With Joe De Sena, Hosted by Joe De Sena, founder and CEO of Spartan, this podcast delves into the principles of resilience, discipline, and the Spartan mindset. De Sena's journey from building a multimillion-dollar pool cleaning business in his teens to establishing a successful Wall Street trading firm showcases his entrepreneurial spirit. In 2001, he transitioned from finance to operate an organic farm in Pittsfield, Vermont, where his passion for endurance events like ultramarathons and adventure races flourished. This led to the creation of Spartan, aiming to inspire individuals to embrace challenges and push their limits.

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From Hallucinations to the Paralympics: Dennis Connors on PTSD, Vulnerability, and Disciplined Recovery

A Marine intelligence collector walked through rocket blasts, absorbed traumatic brain injuries he never reported, and came home to hallucinations so severe he planned to end his own life. Dennis Connors, a Marine Corps veteran, human intelligence operator for a tier-one unit, Paralympic silver medalist, and world champion cyclist, sits down with Joe De Sena to break apart the moment grit stops working and what has to replace it. Dennis lays out his four pillars of perseverance: vulnerability, self-love, disciplined action, and community. He explains why toughness without honesty becomes a death sentence, why identity tied to achievement collapses under pressure, and how cycling gave him both a recovery tool and a tribe that pushed him toward the help he refused to ask for. Things You Will Learn: When grit becomes a liability and what structured perseverance looks like before breakdown hits. The four pillars that replaced white-knuckling it and why each one matters in sequence. Why identity tied to achievement collapses under pressure, and what to anchor self-worth to instead. Tools & Frameworks Covered: Four Pillars of Perseverance: Vulnerability, self-love, disciplined action, and community. A structured framework for long-term recovery and sustained performance. Grit vs. Perseverance Distinction: Grit handles short-term strain. Perseverance handles the years. Know which mode you are in before it fails. Identity Separation Protocol: Detach identity from a single role so transitions do not destroy self-worth. If this episode moved you, do not just listen. Do something about it. Sign up. Show up. Do the work. Spartan.com. No more excuses. Dennis Connors is a U.S. Marine Corps intelligence veteran whose path changed after traumatic brain injuries and a stroke forced him to rebuild his life through adaptive sport. He went on to become a Paralympic silver medalist and world champion, continuing to chase challenge through paracycling and paraclimbing, embodying resilience, reinvention, and purpose through adversity. Connect to Dennis: Website: https://dennisconnorsusa.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dc_rides_trikes/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dcridestrikes We gave you the tools, now use them during your next SPARTAN RACE! Use codeword PODCAST on checkout for 10% your next race. 👉 Find Your Next Spartan Race: https://www.spartan.com/en/race/find-race 👉 For everything Spartan: https://www.spartan.com/ Rise and Thrive with Essentia. Don't just sleep, recover, perform, and wake up ready for anything. Essentia's certified organic Beyond Latex™ mattresses provide deep, restorative sleep without toxic chemicals, allergens, or compromises. Use code SPARTAN25 at myessentia.com. 🎧 Listen & Subscribe: 👉 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hard-way-with-joe-de-sena/id952870930 👉 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1pYBkk1T684YQg7CmoaAZt 📲 Short, Impactful Content 👉 Instagram: @spartanuppodcast 👉 From me directly: @realjoedesena The Hard Way Podcast With Joe De Sena, Hosted by Joe De Sena, founder and CEO of Spartan, this podcast delves into the principles of resilience, discipline, and the Spartan mindset. De Sena's journey from building a multimillion-dollar pool cleaning business in his teens to establishing a successful Wall Street trading firm showcases his entrepreneurial spirit. In 2001, he transitioned from finance to operate an organic farm in Pittsfield, Vermont, where his passion for endurance events like ultramarathons and adventure races flourished. This led to the creation of Spartan, aiming to inspire individuals to embrace challenges and push their limits.

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Patrick Sweeney on Rowing, Building Companies, and Closing the Belief Gap

Starting a company feels like eating glass for breakfast. Every morning. Olympic rowing hopeful turned five-time founder Patrick Sweeney sits down with Joe De Sena to break down exactly what it takes to cross the belief gap that kills most startups before they ever gain traction. Patrick went from setting rowing records at UNH to finishing second at the Olympic Trials in the single scull, then carried that same pain tolerance straight into building and exiting technology companies. He explains how the OODA loop, a military fighter pilot doctrine, can replace startup chaos with a weekly cadence. Patrick also unpacks why 95% of top CEOs admit to impostor syndrome and how shared belief maps prevent the illusion of alignment that tears founding teams apart. Things You Will Learn: Build a shared belief map that exposes hidden misalignment before it breaks your team. Run weekly OODA loop stand-ups that replace startup chaos with structured cadence. Apply the belief gap framework to test hypotheses, track market-product fit, and know when to hit the kill switch. Tools & Frameworks Covered: OODA Loop Stand-Up: A 30-minute weekly cadence to observe, orient, decide, and act so founders stop reacting and start executing. Shared Belief Map: A team alignment exercise that surfaces hidden disagreements between cofounders and forces clarity on core beliefs versus testable hypotheses. Belief Gap Framework: A model for tracking internal believers (employees, partners) and external believers (customers, investors) to measure whether your startup is crossing from conviction to traction. If this episode moved you, don't just listen. Do something about it. Sign up. Show up. Do the work. Spartan.com. No more excuses. Patrick Sweeney built a life that looked successful on paper: serial entrepreneur, investor, multiple exits, but beneath it lived a quiet, persistent fear that kept him playing small. A rare leukemia diagnosis forced a confrontation with mortality and sparked a complete mindset rewiring: fear wasn't the enemy, it was fuel. Since beating cancer, Patrick has turned that philosophy into action, setting cycling world-firsts on Kilimanjaro and Elbrus, competing in extreme endurance races, authoring the Wall Street Journal bestselling book Fear Is Fuel, and teaching leaders how to convert anxiety into calculated risk, resilience, and bold execution. Connect to Patrick: Website: https://www.pjsweeney.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thefearguru/?_ga=2.160567998.289526298.1772475980-622572230.1772475980 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PatrickSweeneyFearGuru/?_ga=2.265952780.289526298.1772475980-622572230.1772475980 Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thefearguru/?_ga=2.265952780.289526298.1772475980-622572230.1772475980 Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9llimdnGK79yk3K_ihYQEQ X/ Twitter: https://x.com/PJSweeney?_ga=2.265952780.289526298.1772475980-622572230.1772475980 Book Patrick for an event: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MnMjHNo9Bs We gave you the tools, now use them during your next SPARTAN RACE! Use codeword PODCAST on checkout for 10% your next race. 👉 Find Your Next Spartan Race: https://www.spartan.com/en/race/find-race 👉 For everything Spartan: https://www.spartan.com/ Rise and Thrive with Essentia. Don't just sleep, recover, perform, and wake up ready for anything. Essentia's certified organic Beyond Latex™ mattresses provide deep, restorative sleep without toxic chemicals, allergens, or compromises. Use code SPARTAN25 at myessentia.com. 🎧 Listen & Subscribe: 👉 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hard-way-with-joe-de-sena/id952870930 👉 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1pYBkk1T684YQg7CmoaAZt 📲 Short, Impactful Content 👉 Instagram: @spartanuppodcast 👉 From me directly: @realjoedesena The Hard Way Podcast With Joe De Sena, Hosted by Joe De Sena, founder and CEO of Spartan, this podcast delves into the principles of resilience, discipline, and the Spartan mindset. De Sena's journey from building a multimillion-dollar pool cleaning business in his teens to establishing a successful Wall Street trading firm showcases his entrepreneurial spirit. In 2001, he transitioned from finance to operate an organic farm in Pittsfield, Vermont, where his passion for endurance events like ultramarathons and adventure races flourished. This led to the creation of Spartan, aiming to inspire individuals to embrace challenges and push their limits.

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