The Binary Agora

albariberamartinez

The Binary Agora is an open space that serves as a meeting ground for legal tech discussions.

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S3 · E5
Wednesday · 20 min
#50 Easy Prompting and Memorisation: Munich Ruling on GEMA v Suno w/ Prof. Dr. Jan Bernd Nordemann
In this episode, we explore the implications of a landmark German court ruling on AI training and copyright law, featuring expert legal insights from Jan Bernd Nordemann. We discuss how AI models like Suno's infringe copyright, jurisdictional issues, and the evolving legal landscape for AI and intellectual property. Throughout the episode, we commented on the Munich Regional Court's ruling on GEMA v. Suno (available in German): https://www.gesetze-bayern.de/Content/Document/Y-300-Z-BECKRS-B-2026-N-17961. During our conversation, Jan also brought up a couple of cases that are relevant to the Court's ruling. Click on them directly using the links below: - 06:06, The CJEU's case law on the relevance of recognisability to determine whether we are before a reproduction, Joined Cases C-580/23 and C-795/23, Mio and Others: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A62023CA0580. - 13:42, The US Supreme Court's case Andy Warhol Foundation for the Visual Arts, Inc. v. Goldsmith et al: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/22pdf/21-869_87ad.pdf. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to the German court ruling on Suno AI 01:05 Facts of the case: GEMA vs Suno 02:28 How Suno trained its model using YouTube content 03:10 German copyright infringements identified in the case 04:16 Memorized copies within Suno’s system and public access 06:39 US law considerations and fair use analysis 07:43 Reproduction and memorization in AI models 09:08 Jurisdictional issues and extraterritoriality 13:28 Impact of the ruling on fair use and AI training 14:31 Thresholds for retention and legal relevance 16:00 Prompting complexity and memorization boundaries 17:16 Output filters and their legal implications 18:18 AI due diligence obligations and strict liability 19:23 Future considerations for AI liability and care duties 20:10 Closing remarks and audience engagement To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social- TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/ The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.
S3 · E4
Tuesday · 22 min
#49 This is Not a Reproduction: The High Court of Delhi's ANI v. OpenAI w/ Dr. Andrés Guadamuz
This episode explores the recent High Court of Delhi ruling on AI training and copyright infringement, featuring Andres Guadamuz, an expert in intellectual property law. We discuss jurisdiction, fair use, and the implications for global AI development. Find here the High Court of Delhi's ruling: https://www.nls.ac.in/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/ANI_vs_OPEN_AI.pdf. Here's Andres' comment on the case: https://www.technollama.co.uk/openai-wins-first-battle-in-ongoing-indian-copyright-lawsuit. Throughout the conversation, Andres remarked on a couple of related cases surrounding these same questions. Click on them directly by following the links below: - 01:50, The New York Times sues Microsoft and Meta: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/07/09/technology/new-york-times-openai.html. - 04:40, The Getty Images case resolved in the UK: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/Getty-Images-v-Stability-AI.pdf. - 08:30, The Bartz v. Anthropic case: https://copyrightalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Bartz-v.-Anthropic-Order.pdf. - 08:50, The Spanish court's VEGAP v Mango case: https://intellectual-property-helpdesk.ec.europa.eu/news-events/news/barcelona-court-rules-against-mango-over-use-famous-artworks-nfts-eu-trade-mark-dispute-nero-2025-06-27_en. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to the Case 01:06 Commonalities and Differences in Legal Cases 04:02 Jurisdiction and Its Implications 06:57 Fair Use and Global Standards 09:58 Outputs and Evidence in the Case 15:52 The Role of LLMs vs. Search Engines 19:55 Future Implications for Copyright and AI To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social- TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/ The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.
S3 · E4
September 3 · 22 min
#48 A Jug of Settled-Down Juice: AI Guidelines on Transparency Obligations w/ Dr. João P. Quintais
I discussed with João Pedro Quintais the European Commission's Guidelines on transparency obligations for providers and deployers of certain AI systems and the application of Article 50 of the EU AI Act more broadly. João also commented on how copyright considerations and history can make us aware of challenges that may arise in the context of the AI Act. To find the European Commission's Guidelines, see here: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/guidelines-ai-transparency-obligations. Throughout the episode, João commented on some of the complementary guidance that AI providers can also take into account when implementing watermarking. To access them directly, click on the links below: - 01:55, Code of Practice on Transparency of AI-generated Content: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/code-practice-ai-generated-content. - 06:11, The General-Purpose AI Code of Practice: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/contents-code-gpai. - 06:11, The Guidelines for providers of general-purpose AI models: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/guidelines-gpai-providers. - 11:23, Research indicating that identification of material as AI-generated can reduce its perceived accuracy: https://arxiv.org/html/2506.16202v2. - 12:27, Anthropic's approach to watermarking: https://www.anthropic.com/news/claude-text-watermark. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to EU AI transparency rules 00:25 João Pedro Quintais' background and research focus 01:07 Scope and application of Article 50 of the AI Act 01:55 The necessity of Guidelines and their legal space 02:48 Difference between Guidelines and the Code of Practice 04:25 Hierarchy of AI regulation: Law, Guidelines, and Codes 05:41 Institutional influence on digital regulation 06:24 Operational details in the Guidelines and ecosystem logic 07:54 Legal and technical governance fusion in AI regulation 08:58 Transparency, labeling, and trust in AI content 10:00 Provenance versus trustworthiness in AI labeling 11:14 Impact of labeling on perceptions of AI-generated content 12:05 Familiarity with AI and perception shifts13:14 Implementation of watermarking in AI systems 15:00 Robustness and detection challenges in watermarking 16:10 Technical and normative challenges in AI marking 17:28 Copyright law, authorship, and AI outputs 19:01 AI labeling as a legal and evidentiary signal 21:06 Influence of copyright and legal language in AI regulation 22:15 Closing remarks and future discussions in AI law To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all- BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social - TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/ The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.
S3 · E3
September 1 · 17 min
#47 Visibility is Only One Dimension of Competition: The Google Shopping Case w/ Dr. Steffen Sirries
Stemming from their paper deriving from a dataset of 1.2 million searches run by Steffen Sirries (alongside Paul Henri Püplichhuisen), we discuss how visibility is important in competition but it's not the solution to all competitive problems. We analyse such considerations from the perspective of the Google Shopping case, which Steffen is working on extensively. If you'd want to read Steffen's paper in detail, find it here: https://academic.oup.com/jcle/advance-article/doi/10.1093/joclec/nhag022/8734216.On the episode, we also remarked on the main milestones surrounding the Google Shopping case. Click on them directly via the links below: - 00:04, The European Commission issues an 890 million fine against Google for a breach of Article 6(5) DMA: https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/commission-fines-google-eur890-million-breaches-digital-markets-act-2026-07-23_en.- 00:44, The European Commission's initial decision on the Google Shopping case under Article 102 TFEU: https://competition-cases.ec.europa.eu/cases/AT.39740. - 06:29, In March 2024, Google introduced the product website box: https://www.searchenginejournal.com/google-rolling-out-changes-to-shopping-searches-in-europe/511881/.Key moments00:00 Introduction to Google and the DMA enforcement00:46 Overview of Google's self-preferencing conduct01:36 Empirical findings on the DMA's effectiveness02:38 Interpreting the 20% visibility increase05:05 Distinction between product websites box and product viewer08:10 The whack-a-mole enforcement challenge08:28 Broader implications for digital markets09:41 Limits of remedies and future challenges13:21 What a compliant Google search page should look like15:05 Measuring long-term contestability and innovationTo learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com.She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128.________The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well.- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all- BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social- TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.
S3 · E2
August 27 · 26 min
#46 Cross-Sectoral and Cross-Border Cooperation in Digital Regulation w/ Dr. Belle Beems
This episode explores the complex overlap of EU competition law, GDPR, and digital regulation, featuring Professor Belle Beams. We discuss institutional frameworks, cross-disciplinary cooperation, decentralisation, and future enforcement challenges in digital markets. Throughout the episode, Belle and I highlighted several developments that have taken place in the space of the framework of collaboration in digital regulation. Click on them directly by following the links below: - 00:50, Belle's PhD on 'The interaction between enforcers of competition law, the DMA and the GDPR. An inquiry into the coherence of enforcement across legal domains': https://repository.ubn.ru.nl/bitstream/handle/2066/327183/327183pos.pdf?sequence=4. - 01:28, The Court of Justice's bpost ruling (Case C-117/20): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62020CJ0117. - 03:09, The Court of Justice's Nordzucker ruling (Case C-151/20): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62020CJ0151. - 04:09, The Court of Justice's Meta v. Bundeskartellamt ruling (Case C-252/21): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62021CJ0252. - 11:09, The introduction of new GDPR procedural rules for cross-border cases: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/thinktank/en/document/EPRS_ATA(2025)777953. - 13:56, My paper on 'The Decentralisation of EU Regulation': https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=6479620. - 17:40, The scrutiny of Booking.com's MFN clauses: https://ga-p.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/hotel-online-bookings-and-mfn-clauses-can-online-platforms-demand-the-best-deal.pdf. - 18:37, The Italian competition authority's case against Meta's integration of Meta AI chatbot in WhatsApp: https://en.agcm.it/en/media/press-releases/2025/12/A576. - 19:29, The Spanish competition authority's case against Booking.com for the unfair trading conditions it imposes on the hotel sector: https://www.cnmc.es/sites/default/files/5555287.pdf. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to Digital Platforms and Law 01:08 Understanding Overlaps in Legal Frameworks 03:55 The Principle of Sincere Cooperation 09:53 Challenges in Cross-Border Collaboration 12:36 Institutional Design and Enforcement 14:11 Decentralisation vs. Centralisation in Enforcement 24:56 The Concept of a European Super Regulator To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social - TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/ The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.
S3 · E1
August 25 · 32 min
#45 The Digital Omnibus, A Shift Towards Self-Regulation w/ Dr. Itxaso Domínguez de Olazábal
In this episode, we explore the European Union's digital omnibus proposal, its implications for digital regulation, data protection, and AI. Itxaso shares her insights on deregulation, fundamental rights, and the future of digital law in Europe. Throughout the episode, Itxaso remarked on a few developments that have taken place surrounding digital regulation. Click directly on them below: - 00:22, The EU's Digital Omnibus: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/library/digital-omnibus-regulation-proposal. - 02:26, Omnibus IV: https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/publications/omnibus-iv_en. - 03:53, The Draghi report: https://commission.europa.eu/topics/competitiveness/draghi-report_en. - 06:02, The European Commission's Better Regulation Guidelines: https://commission.europa.eu/law/law-making-process/better-regulation/better-regulation-guidelines-and-toolbox_en. - 15:30, Debiasing in AI needs less (and not more) data: https://news.mit.edu/2024/researchers-reduce-bias-ai-models-while-preserving-improving-accuracy-1211. - 19:04, Anthropic buys and destroys millions of print books to source its AI models: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/aug/05/anthropic-ai-destroying-books. - 20:39, Evidence pointing to an AI bubble: https://arxiv.org/html/2606.01575v1. - 28:15, The Helsinki Statement: https://www.edpb.europa.eu/documents/reports-statements-and-letters/the-helsinki-statement-on-enhanced-clarity-support-and_en. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to the Digital Omnibus 01:13 Disagreement with the European Commission on Deregulation 02:20 The Broader Political Trend of Deregulation in the EU 04:00 Impact of Omnibus on Fundamental Rights and Impact Assessments 07:19 GDPR Changes and Risks to Data Protection 13:36 AI Regulation and Data Processing in the Omnibus 16:48 The Shift in AI Data Use and Legal Uncertainty 22:34 EU Competitiveness and the Real Challenges 27:26 Supporting Meaningful Simplification and Regulation 30:21 Innovative Solutions for Privacy and Data Rights To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social - TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/ The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.
S2 · E45
July 29 · 26 min
#44 The App Store Freedom Act: The US Attempts to Regulate Digital Platforms w/ Gene Burrus
In this episode, we explore the US App Store Freedom Act, its implications for digital competition, and how it compares to international regulations like the DMA and the Japanese Mobile Software Competition Act. Gene Burrus, a competition law expert, shares insights on legislative prospects and the future of app distribution. Find the contents of the App Store Freedom Act here: https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/3209. Throughout the conversation, Gene mentioned a couple of developments in which US policymakers have considered regulating digital markets in the past. Click on those developments below: - 02:00, The Open App Markets Act: https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/2710. - 02:17, The Antitrust Investigation of the Rise and Use of Market Power Online and the Adequacy of Existing Antitrust Laws and Current Enforcement Levels: https://democrats-judiciary.house.gov/issues/digital-markets-investigation. - 03:34, The American Innovation and Choice Online Act: https://www.congress.gov/crs_external_products/R/PDF/R47228/R47228.2.pdf. - 03:36, The Ending Platform Monopolies Act: https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/3825. - 04:43, The DOJ's consent decree on Microsoft: https://www.justice.gov/archive/opa/pr/2002/August/02_at_453.htm. - 05:20, The Open App Markets Act favourable vote in committee: https://www.klobuchar.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2022/2/senate-panel-advances-bill-targeting-apple-google-app-store-power. - 05:44, The App Store Freedom Act committee hearing: https://trahan.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=3818. - 10:17, Gene's op-ed in The Washington Reporter on the imposition of junk fees: https://washingtonreporter.news/op-ed-gene-burrus-the-junk-fee-congress-can-actually-cut/. - 11:07, Apple's DMA compliance workshop where it challenged the European Commission's position as the DMA's enforcer: https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/events-poolpage/2025-apple-dma-compliance-workshop-2025-06-30_en. - 18:29, Apple executives recognising the faults of their app review process: https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2021/04/10/apple-iphone-app-store-fleeceware-scam-iphone-12-pro-max/. - 19:01, California's AG triggers suits against Apple and Google for so-called nudify apps: https://www.wired.com/story/san-francisco-demands-apple-and-google-delete-ai-nudify-apps-from-app-stores/. - 25:05, The US Google Search saga: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/department-justice-wins-significant-remedies-against-google. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to the US App Store Freedom Act and digital regulation landscape 01:01 Gene Burrus introduces the main features of the App Store Freedom Act 01:45 Comparison with European DMA and Japanese approaches 04:10 Legislative support and bipartisan prospects for the Act 07:47 Scope of the Act and its potential as a proof of concept 10:01 US regulatory stance and international coordination challenges 12:55 Addressing security concerns and malicious compliance fears 14:53 How the Act could open up alternative app distribution channels 20:00 Enforcement mechanisms: FTC, state AGs, and private enforcement 26:46 Global coordination and preventing regulatory fragmentation 30:04 Final thoughts on the future of digital competition regulation To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.
S2 · E43
July 27 · 26 min
#43 A Brazilian Digital Regulation Soon in the Books w/ Rafael Rossini Parisi
In this episode, I interview Rafael Rossini Parisi about the latest developments in Brazil's digital markets regulation, exploring its objectives, legislative process, and implications for competition and consumer protection. Find the current version of the Brazilian bill here: https://www.camara.leg.br/proposicoesWeb/fichadetramitacao?idProposicao=2562481&utm_source=chatgpt.com. In the episode, Rafa touched upon a few developments surrounding the current regulatory environment in Brazil. Click on them directly below: - 01:55, The proposed bill in 2025: https://www.camara.leg.br/proposicoesWeb/prop_mostrarintegra?codteor=3159491&filename=Tramitacao-14-PL-4675-2025. - 02:49, The Ministry of Finance's study on the need for a digital markets regulation: https://www.gov.br/fazenda/pt-br/assuntos/noticias/2024/outubro/propostas-para-aprimorar-a-defesa-da-concorrencia-no-ambiente-de-plataformas-digitais-sao-detalhadas-em-coletiva. - 03:33, The Brazilian Competition Act: https://cdn.cade.gov.br/portal-ingles/topics/leniency%20program/Applicable%20Laws/law-no-12529-2011-english-version-from-18-05-2012.pdf. - 07:21, Political pressure to get the bill passed before the general election: https://newsletters.brazilian.report/p/copying-europe-dma-digital-markets. - 08:22, The Digital Statute of the Child and the Adolescent: https://www.gov.br/mdh/pt-br/assuntos/noticias/2025/novembro/brasil-apresenta-avancos-em-seguranca-digital-da-infancia-e-lanca-eca-digital-em-ingles-durante-cupula-social-do-g20-na-africa-do-sul/eca-digital-ing-v2.pdf. - 09:25, CADE's Apple Store case: https://www.gov.br/cade/en/matters/news/cade-signs-a-cease-and-desist-agreement-with-apple. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to the Brazilian Digital Markets Bill 01:32 Background and Context of the Legislation 03:21 Key Features and Influences of the Bill 07:36 Legislative Process and Political Dynamics 10:03 Civil Society Support and Broader Regulatory Agenda 12:44 Designation of Systemic Relevance Agents 16:37 Designations and Review Processes 18:51 Obligations and Consumer Protection Aspects 21:53 Inter-agency Cooperation and Data Sharing 24:39 Information Exchange and Confidentiality 26:39 Remedies and Compliance Mechanisms 28:49 Monitoring and Market Investigations 32:17 Conclusion and Final Remarks To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social - TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/ The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.
S2 · E43
July 23 · 43 min
#42 The Law of the Exceptional: The CJEU's Google Android Ruling w/ Prof. Pablo Ibáñez Colomo
In this episode, I discuss with Prof. Pablo Ibáñez Colomo the implications of the Court of Justice's Google Android ruling when put in relation to concepts such as competition on the merits. We also get the opportunity to determine whether competition law deviates in digital markets and why this approach is consistent with the previous case law. Find the CJEU's Google Android ruling here: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62022CJ0738. Throughout the episode, Pablo went through a number of cases that serve as the background to the Google Android ruling. Click on them directly here: - 00:49, The European Commission's sanctioning decision in 2018: https://competition-cases.ec.europa.eu/cases/AT.40099. - 00:51, The General Court's ruling of the case: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62018TJ0604. - 07:22, The CJEU's Servier saga (Case C-201/19 P): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62019CJ0201. - 12:42, The CJEU's Android Auto ruling (Case C-233/23): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:62023CJ0233. - 21:42, The CJEU's Deutsche Telekom ruling (Case C-280/08 P): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62008CJ0280. - 22:33, My post on the EC's interpretation of Article 6(11) DMA via specification proceedings: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/european-commission-hits-nail-head-its-dma-decision-ribera-mart%C3%ADnez-6wv4e/?trackingId=XZLJXgRtQ4mSMEoE8lv1yQ%3D%3D. - 24:15, The CJEU's Post Danmark case (Case C-23/14): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62014CJ0023. - 24:33, The CJEU's Google Shopping ruling (Case C-48/22 P): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62022CJ0048. - 25:19, The CJEU's Servizio Elettrico Nazionale ruling (Case C-377/20): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62020CJ0377. - 25:41, The CJEU's SuperLeague ruling (Case C-333/21): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62021CJ0333. - 26:19, Fernando Castillo's paper on tying and its relationship with competition on the merits: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4395401. - 27:41, German scholars in the 1950s concluded that competition on the merits cannot be made operational: https://ejpe.org/journal/article/download/688/539/1890. - 33:09, The CJEU's Qualcomm ruling (Case C-466/19 P): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62019CJ0466. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to the Google Android Case and Guest 02:00 Ecosystems in Competition Law: Biological vs Digital 03:58 Implications of Ecosystem Balance on Legal Standards 05:57 The Role of Monetization Strategies in the Case 08:14 The Role of Causality and Counterfactuals in Analysis 11:10 Anti-Fragmentation Obligations and Market Strategies 13:00 Objective Justification and Ecosystem Sustainability 14:57 Principles of Digital Market Regulation and Exceptionalism 16:47 The Court’s Approach to Digital Market Dominance 19:12 Implications for Competition Law and Digital Ecosystems 21:10 Market Dynamics: Natural Monopolies and Network Effects 23:04 Refusal to Deal Doctrine in Digital Markets 24:59 The Exceptional Nature of Digital Market Cases 26:49 Historical Context: Telecoms and Digital Markets 29:11 Competition on the Merits and Tying Practices 31:49 Operational Challenges in Competition Law Enforcement 34:10 The Future of Competition Law in the Digital Era To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128.The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.
S2 · E41
July 18 · 27 min
#41 You Own It, You Decide How it Gets Licensed w/ James Rosewell
In this episode, James Rosewell discusses innovative licensing schemes for content used by AI proprietors and the legal and regulatory landscape shaping the future of web publishing and AI content use. If you're a web publisher and you're interested in signing the search-only contract, find it available on the Movement for an Open Web site: https://movementforanopenweb.com/publishers-take-control-over-ai-harvesting-with-new-contract/. James and I touched upon different developments and milestones for the transformation of search and the Internet more broadly. Click on them directly through the links below: - 00:18, The CMA's conduct requirements against Google relating to the use of content in AI Overviews: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cma-secures-fairer-deal-for-publishers-and-improves-google-search-services-in-uk. - 15:05, The search-only contract is also available in GitHub: https://github.com/movementforanopenweb/terms-documents. - 17:44, Proprietary agreements between publishers and AI companies: https://digiday.com/media/a-timeline-of-the-major-deals-between-publishers-and-ai-tech-companies-in-2025/. - 18:00, Spur Coalition aiming to publish best practices relating to licensing in AI: https://www.spurcoalition.org/. - 19:35, The piracy debate around Pirate Bay and Napster that took place in the early 2000s: https://www.decodedmagazine.com/the-rise-and-fall-of-music-piracy-how-napster-and-limewire-almost-destroyed-the-industry/. - 19:52, The Press Gazette article written by Chris Dicker documenting that blocking bots is not effective: https://pressgazette.co.uk/publishers/publishers-versus-bots-trusted-reviews-ceo-on-a-fight-for-survival-with-llms/. - 26:10, The CMA's 2020 report on digital markets (executive summary): https://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/online-platforms-and-digital-advertising-market-study. - 26:27, IAB UK's report documenting the impact of the cost of advertising in UK households: https://www.lexisnexis.co.uk/legal/news/iab-releases-economic-impact-of-digital-advertising-to-uk-economy-study-findings. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to AI and Search Engine Dynamics 02:45 CMA Remedies and Publisher Opt-Outs 11:23 Proposed Licensing Solutions for Publishers 17:33 Challenges for Small vs. Large Publishers 23:24 The Future of AI and Content Ownership To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social - TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.
S2 · E42
July 16 · 23 min
#40 Having All Your Eggs in One Basket: The Situation of the Cloud Computing Market w/ Max von Thun
In this episode, I sat down with Max von Thun, Director at Open Markets Institute Europe, to discuss the situation of the cloud computing market. He set forth in very few words why we should care about this market and what the main problems are in the market's current configuration. I hope you enjoy the episode! Throughout the episode, we mentioned some developments that have taken place surrounding the cloud market. Click on them directly below: - 00:08, The EC's qualitative designations under the DMA against Amazon and Microsoft and its additional market investigation on the adequacy of capturing cloud: https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/commission-launches-market-investigations-cloud-computing-services-under-digital-markets-act-2025-11-18_en. - 03:11, Amazon's, Microsoft's, and Google's dominance in the cloud market: https://www.statista.com/chart/18819/worldwide-market-share-of-leading-cloud-infrastructure-service-providers/?srsltid=AfmBOorFbl4QKnpM7sqK5L7LsFSx9wa7pSbd_YWZRw0CC2S7ubAPdhFC. - 04:11, The CMA's cloud services market investigation: https://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/cloud-services-market-investigation. - 04:39, Cloud outages created by dependence on a few players: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/oct/20/amazon-web-services-aws-outage-hits-dozens-websites-apps. - 06:50, Amazon spun its cloud business off the computing resources used from its e-commerce website: https://www.wired.com/story/why-hard-escape-amazons-long-reach/. - 07:34, The European Commission's work on cloud: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/cloud-and-ai-development-act. - 07:38, The Dutch competition authority's market study into cloud services: https://www.acm.nl/en/publications/market-study-cloud-services. - 07:40, The French competition authority's market study into cloud computing: https://www.autoritedelaconcurrence.fr/en/press-release/cloud-computing-autorite-de-la-concurrence-issues-its-market-study-competition-cloud. - 08:22, The Data Act: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2023/2854/oj/eng. - 11:23, The European Commission's approval of the Google/Wiz merger: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_333. - 12:53, Google's partnerships surrounding its cloud business: https://newsroom.accenture.com/news/2026/accenture-edge-and-google-cloud-bring-scalable-agentic-ai-solutions-to-mid-market-companies. - 15:42, The US' Antitrust Subcommittee's reports touching on the cloud market: http://democrats-judiciary.house.gov/issues/digital-markets-investigation. - 16:13, Anecdotal evidence by which users are more prone towards Amazon's proprietary cloud: https://yalelawjournal.org/pdf/e.710.Khan.805_zuvfyyeh.pdf. - 16:45, Open Markets Institute paper on cloud: https://www.openmarketsinstitute.org/publications/levelling-the-playing-field-for-cloud-services-omi-welcomes-eu-move-to-bring-amazon-and-microsoft-under-dma-gatekeeper-rules. - 21:30: The European Commission's DMA review: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_914. - 22:05, The European Commission's Meta case, where it imposed interim measures: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_1276. - 22:28, The need for structural remedies, as set out by Open Markets Institute: https://www.openmarketsinstitute.org/publications/the-structural-directive-vindicating-the-high-purpose-of-the-antitrust-laws. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to Cloud Market Regulation 02:29 Understanding Hyperscales and Market Dynamics 10:03 The Role of the European Commission 12:25 Implications of the DMA on Cloud Services 18:47 Future of Cloud Regulation and Enforcement To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com.The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.
S2 · E40
July 8 · 24 min
#39 A Gatekeeper's Opening Gambit: Antitrust and DMA Compliance w/ Oliver Bethell
In this episode, Oliver Bethell from Google discusses the future of search in the age of AI, European regulatory approaches, including the DMA, and the balance between innovation and privacy. We explore how AI is transforming search behaviour and the path forward for fair competition. Throughout the episode, Oli and I touched upon many different developments and facts surrounding Google's business. Click on them below to access them directly: - 06:57, The European Commission's case under Article 102 TFEU relating to Google's integration of AI Overviews and its processing of web publisher content: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/da/ip_25_2964. - 10:07, Google's AI licensing pilot: https://www.pymnts.com/news/artificial-intelligence/2026/google-tells-news-publishers-to-share-content-for-ai-training-or-lose-fees/. - 10:09, Google's deal with 200 news publishers: https://blog.google/company-news/outreach-and-initiatives/google-news-initiative/google-news-showcase/. - 10:14, Google's Extended News Program and Previews Program: https://blog.google/company-news/inside-google/around-the-globe/google-europe/more-data-about-news-results-eu/. - 12:12, The European Commission's DMA review report: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_914. - 13:06, The consensus around productivity gains generated by genAI: https://www.oecd.org/en/blogs/2025/07/unlocking-productivity-with-generative-ai-evidence-from-experimental-studies.html. - 13:13, GenAI is estimated to add up to €1.2 trillion to the European Union's GDP over the next decade: https://blog.google/company-news/inside-google/around-the-globe/google-europe/building-europes-ai-future-together/. - 13:43, ChatGPT's rapid uptake in user adoption when it was launched: https://www.reuters.com/technology/chatgpt-sets-record-fastest-growing-user-base-analyst-note-2023-02-01/. - 17:42, The European Commission's 6(11) preliminary measures on access to search data: https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/dma100209-consultation-proposed-measures-google-search-data-sharing_en. - 17:49, Privacy experts contesting the Commission's approach under the 6(11) specification proceedings: https://ecipe.org/insights/dma-proceedings-against-google/. - 18:16, Gatekeepers raising privacy as an issue that is set at odds with the DMA's application: https://agenceurope.eu/en/bulletin/article/13902/8/expert-warns-apple-and-google-are-citing-privacy-and-security-risks-in-their-lobbying-against-dma. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to AI and Search Transformation 01:50 The Future of Search: Evolving User Expectations 07:24 Regulatory Landscape: The Role of the DMA 12:43 AI and Competition: Balancing Innovation and Regulation 18:29 Privacy Concerns in the Age of AI 22:38 Conclusion: Navigating the Future of Digital Markets To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social - TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.
S2 · E19
June 26 · 14 min
#38 Competing in the Very Domain Through Which We Recognise Minds w/ Dr. Valerio Capraro
In this episode, I interviewed Valerio Capraro about the concept of LLMorphism, its implications on human cognition, and the societal impacts of AI language models. We explored how AI influences our self-perception and the importance of epistemic literacy. To read through Valerio's newly introduced notion of LLMorphism, see here: https://arxiv.org/abs/2605.05419. In the episode, Valerio mentioned a couple of other works and trends applying to the LLMorphism theory. Click on them below to access them directly: - 03:20, His work on 'Epistemological Fault Lines Between Human and Artificial Intelligence', co-authored with Walter Quattrociocchi and Matjaz Perc: https://doi.org/10.48550/arXiv.2512.19466. - 08:22, Scholars discussing mecanomorphism back in the 1940s: https://doi.org/10.1080/03081079.2014.883743. - 09:26, The perspective of Taylorism on replaceable humans: https://www.emerald.com/jmh/article-pdf/30/2/141/9579783/jmh-04-2024-305.pdf. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to LLMorphism and AI's Impact on Human Cognition 01:47 Understanding LLMorphism: The Cognitive Bias of Machines 04:52 The Consequences of LLMorphism on Human Identity 07:17 Historical Context: Technology and Self-Understanding 08:33 The Threat of Replaceability in the Workforce 10:39 Social Implications: Power Dynamics and Human Perception 11:51 Navigating LLMorphism: The Role of Understanding and Literacy To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social - TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.
S2 · E38
June 20 · 24 min
#37 The Munich Court's Ruling on AI Overviews on the Lips of Publishers w/ Fayrouze Masmi-Dazi
In this episode, we explore the landmark Munich court ruling on AI liability, its implications for Google and content publishers, and the broader regulatory landscape for AI in Europe. Fayrouze Masmi-Dazi shares expert insights on legal distinctions between search engines and hosting platforms and future challenges in AI regulation. The video exhaustively reviews and comments on the Munich Regional Court's ruling relating to Google Overviews, which you'll find here: https://les-italy.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/42-O-14139-24-Endurteil-en-GB.pdf. Aside from the judgment, we also touched upon several developments surrounding the topic. Click directly on them below: - 04:10, The French competition authority's intervention in relation to Google's agreements with news publishers: https://www.autoritedelaconcurrence.fr/en/article/related-rights-autorite-fines-google-eu250-million. - 05:14, The European Commission's investigation on AI Overviews under Article 102 TFEU: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/da/ip_25_2964. - 05:16, The CMA's measures relating to publisher content on AI Overviews: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cma-secures-fairer-deal-for-publishers-and-improves-google-search-services-in-uk. - 06:24, The Court of Justice's ruling in relation to the liability of information services (Case C-190/24 Coyote System): https://infocuria.curia.europa.eu/tabs/affair?sort=AFF_NUM-DESC&searchTerm=%22C-190%2F24%22&publishedId=C-190%2F24. - 16:20, Google's announcement of the Privacy Sandbox: https://blog.google/products-and-platforms/products/chrome/building-a-more-private-web/. - 16:25, The CMA's investigation into Google's Privacy Sandbox: https://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/investigation-into-googles-privacy-sandbox-browser-changes. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to AI Liability and the Munich Ruling 03:18 Significance of the Ruling for AI and Publishers 07:40 Distinction Between AI Overview and Traditional Search Engines 12:39 Legal Implications of Untrue Statements and Liability 17:14 Impact on Publishers and Future Litigation 21:00 Regulatory Framework for AI in Europe To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social - TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.
S2 · E37
June 18 · 26 min
#36 Regulators Must Go Outside of their Regulatory Silos w/ Sebastião Barros Vale
In this episode, I host Sebastião to discuss the complex interplay between the GDPR, DMA, and AI regulation within the EU. He explores how regulators can cooperate across silos, the challenges of enforcement, and the future of cross-regulatory guidelines. Throughout the conversation, we covered different aspects of the digital rulebook requiring coordination: - 00:17, The European Commission's specification proceedings relating to Google's AI features: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_202. - 01:48, The EDPB's and EC's Draft Joint Guidelines on the interplay between the DMA and the GDPR: https://www.edpb.europa.eu/our-work-tools/documents/public-consultations/2025/joint-guidelines-interplay-between-digital_en. - 04:49, The EDPB set to issue Joint Guidelines on the interface between competition law and the GDPR: https://competition-policy.ec.europa.eu/about/news/commission-services-and-edpb-will-start-joint-work-guidance-interplay-between-eu-competition-law-and-2026-04-28_en. - 04:53, The EDPB's work with the EC on Joint Guidelines relating to the AI Act and its interplay with the GDPR: https://www.edpb.europa.eu/system/files/2026-01/edpb_edps_jointopinion_202601_proposal_ai-omnibus_en.pdf. - 05:06, The EDPB's Joint Guidelines with the EDPS on the Anti-Money Laundering Act: https://www.edps.europa.eu/data-protection/our-work/our-work-by-type/edps-edpb-joint-opinions_en. - 07:23, The EDPB's efforts in issuing Joint Guidelines relating to the DSA/GDPR interface with the EC: https://www.edpb.europa.eu/system/files/2025-09/edpb_guidelines_202503_interplay-dsa-gdpr_v1_en.pdf. - 07:48, The EDPB's collaboration with the European Board for Digital Services in the DSA context: https://www.edpb.europa.eu/news/news/2025/interplay-between-dsa-and-gdpr-edpb-adopts-guidelines_en. - 08:30, The Court of Justice's ruling relating to the principle of sincere cooperation (Case C-252/21, Meta Platforms Inc and Others v Bundeskartellamt): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62021CJ0252. - 11:51, The EC's analysis of the Google/Fitbit merger: https://ec.europa.eu/competition/mergers/cases1/202120/m9660_3314_3.pdf. - 11:58, The EDPB's statement on the Google/Fitbit merger: https://www.edpb.europa.eu/sites/default/files/files/file1/edpb_statement_2020_privacyimplicationsofmergers_en.pdf. - 12:04, Commissioner Vestager's statement that the EDPB could not intervene in the Google/Fitbit merger due to the lack of a legal basis: https://subscriber.politicopro.com/article/2020/02/vestager-privacy-regulators-wont-be-involved-in-google-fitbit-review-3976959. - 12:17, The EDPS' call for a horizontal legal basis that provides the possibility to exchange confidential information between authorities: https://www.edps.europa.eu/system/files/2022-11/2022-11-11-opinion-on-european-media-freedom-act_en.pdf. - 12:54, The stakeholder contributions to the Digital Fitness Check: https://data.europa.eu/en/news-events/news/eu-digital-omnibus-update-simplifying-europes-digital-rulebook. - 16:00, The European Commission's specification proceedings under Article 6(11) DMA against Google: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_202. - 17:34, The Court of Justice's recent case law on the principle of ne bis in idem (Case C-117/20, bpost SA v Autorité belge de la concurrence): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62020CJ0117. - 20:22, The EDPB's work in fleshing out the notion of anonymisation: https://www.edpb.europa.eu/our-work-tools/our-documents/topic/anonymization_en. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to Data Protection and DMA 01:20 Interplay Between GDPR and DMA 08:12 Consultation and Cooperation Among Regulators 15:03 Enforcement Fragmentation Risks 22:38 AI Integration with DMA and GDPR The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.
S2 · E36
June 13 · 22 min
#35 The DMA's AI Reckoning, Two Years On
Join me in a brief talk around the analysis of AI within the DMA framework, where I build on my previous research surrounding whether an AI CPS must be added or how to meter AI technologies into the ex ante regulation. To celebrate the 1000th download of my paper 'Generative AI in Check: Gatekeeper Power and Policy Under the DMA', I invite you to read it on SSRN here: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5025742. Throughout the talk, I touch upon different developments that guide the EC's analysis of AI under the DMA. Click and go directly to them through the links below: - 04:03, The European Commission proposes draft implementation measures in relation to interoperability with Android OS features necessary to power AI: https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/developer-portal/interoperability_en. - 04:39, The European Commission proposes draft implementation measures to narrow down compliance with Article 6(11) DMA on search data: https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/dma100209-consultation-proposed-measures-google-search-data-sharing_en. - 07:38, Meta's decision to scrape data from its Facebook and Instagram services to feed it into its LLM: https://about.fb.com/news/2025/04/making-ai-work-harder-for-europeans/. - 08:06, My opinion on such conduct as applied to Article 5(2) DMA: https://legalblogs.wolterskluwer.com/competition-blog/the-higher-regional-court-cologne-barks-up-the-wrong-data-tree-the-courts-interpretation-of-article-52b-dma-in-the-meta-ai-case/. - 08:22, The Higher Regional Court of Cologne's dismissal of an interim injunction in the case (available in German): https://nrwe.justiz.nrw.de/olgs/koeln/j2025/15_UKl_2_25_Urteil_20250523.html. - 12:10, The Regional Court of Munich granted the requested preliminary injunction and prohibited Google from disseminating statements about publishers in AI-generated summaries: https://www.gesetze-bayern.de/Content/Document/Y-300-Z-BECKRS-B-2026-N-11860?hl=true. - 17:14, For more information on Amazon's Rufus and its interaction with the DMA, see my comment on their compliance workshop here: https://legalblogs.wolterskluwer.com/competition-blog/amazons-second-dma-compliance-workshop-the-power-of-no-where-the-balance-should-land/. - 17:25, The European Commission's Amazon Buy Box case: https://competition-cases.ec.europa.eu/cases/AT.40462. - 18:59, My analysis on gatekeeper designation and the use of delineation: https://doi.org/10.1093/joclec/nhae011. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to DMA and AI Integration 02:15 Policy Options for AI Enforcement 04:10 Transformations in Market Dynamics 06:30 AI Features and Gatekeeper Services 08:40 Challenges of Data Regulation 10:23 The Evolution of Search with AI 15:38 Regulatory Implications of AI Overviews 19:34 Future of AI and DMA Enforcement To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social - TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/
S2 · E35
June 9 · 19 min
#34 A Belief in Big Solutions: The Commission's Tech Sovereignty Package w/ Dr. Anselm Küsters
This interview with Dr. Anselm Küsters explores the EU's Tech Sovereignty Package, focusing on sovereignty as a capacity to act and the role of open source in fostering resilience and competition in Europe's digital infrastructure. The Tech Sovereignty Package we discuss throughout the conversation can be found here: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_1187. During the conversation, Anselm and I also raised several developments and sources that can be useful to understand the EU's broader sovereignty strategy. Click on them below to go to them directly: - 00:23, The Draghi report: https://commission.europa.eu/topics/competitiveness/draghi-report_en. - 01:08, Dr Küsters' work on sovereignty as a precondition for openness: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/351046050_The_Fight_for_Digital_Sovereignty_What_It_Is_and_Why_It_Matters_Especially_for_the_EU. - 01:34, Dr. Küsters' initial assessment of the Tech Sovereignty Package, co-authored with Phillip Eckhardt and Dr. Matthias Kullas: https://www.cep.eu/eu-topics/details/eu-tech-sovereignty-package.html. - 01:52, The German approach towards sovereignty: https://www.bmftr.bund.de/SharedDocs/Publikationen/DE/FS/1086286_Rahmenprogramm_FITS2030_en.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=6. - 01:55, An analysis of Carl Schmitt's definition of sovereignty: https://lup.lub.lu.se/search/files/90975147/CarlSchmittsDefinitionofSovereignty.pdf. - 04:05, The EU's 2020 Data Strategy: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/strategy-data. - 06:23, Reporting on the EC's potential issuing of equivalence decisions to US hyperscalers: https://www.euractiv.com/news/commissions-sovereign-cloud-plan-doesnt-push-us-hyperscalers-out/. - 07:49, Dr. Küsters' work on 'Coping with the Digital Trilemma? Trade-Offs and Risks in EU Digital Policy', co-authored with Cecilia Emma Sottilotta: https://doi.org/10.1002/epa2.70023. - 10:41, W.B. Gallie on 'Essentially Contested Concepts': https://www.jstor.org/stable/4544562. - 12:28, Dr. Küsters' Small is Beautiful 2.0 book (available in German): https://www.herder.de/geschichte-politik/shop/p4/93614-small-is-beautiful-20-klappenbroschur/. - 13:46, A summary in English of the Small is Beautiful 2.0 printed publication: https://commongroundeurope.eu/blog/small-is-beautiful-2-0-how-digital-decentralisation-can-strengthen-democracy/. - 13:50, Dr. Küsters' weekly Substack, The Small Signal: https://anselmkuesters.substack.com/. - 15:08, The EU's Digital Wallet: https://ec.europa.eu/digital-building-blocks/sites/spaces/EUDIGITALIDENTITYWALLET/pages/694487738/EU+Digital+Identity+Wallet+Home. - 17:36, Research on open source demonstrating that it reduces security risks: https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3736426.3736467. - 17:48, Linus's Law, coined by Eric S. Raymond in his book The Cathedral and the Bazaar, means that if a codebase is visible to a large community of developers and users, problems will be identified and fixed quickly. - 18:27, Feasibility study on funding needed for open source maintenance: https://eu-stf.openforumeurope.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/EU-STF-Feasibility-Study_final.pdf. - 18:33, The European Competitiveness Fund: https://commission.europa.eu/publications/european-competitiveness-fund_en. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to EU's Tech Sovereignty Package 03:54 Understanding Sovereignty in the Digital Sphere 07:41 The Four Tiers of Sovereignty 10:24 Trade-offs in EU Digital Policy 13:12 Open Source and Democratic Resilience 16:27 The Importance of Open Source for Competitiveness To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.
S2 · E34
June 8 · 28 min
#33 The Origin Story Behind the CMA's Conduct Requirements w/ Tim Cowen
This episode features Tim Cowen, discussing the impact of AI Overviews on market competition and news publishers. Tim presents the legal complaints and expertise he has rendered to competition authorities and agencies surrounding market suppression tactics, which can potentially be analysed as competition harms. The episode was recorded before the CMA issued its conduct requirements relating to Google's AI Overviews under the DMCCA, see here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6a1f0098b95db968c8f3bdb9/Publisher_CR_final_decision.pdf. Throughout the conversation, Tim touched upon different tenets of enforcement that have been taking place surrounding Google's position in search. Click on them directly below: - 01:35, Google's introduction of Bard in 2023: https://blog.google/innovation-and-ai/technology/ai/bard-google-ai-search-updates/. - 01:49, The French competition authority intervenes by fining Google relating to the use of publisher content: https://www.autoritedelaconcurrence.fr/en/article/related-rights-autorite-fines-google-eu250-million. - 02:48, The European Commission's Google Shopping decision: https://competition-cases.ec.europa.eu/cases/AT.39740. - 03:07, The Court of Justice's ruling in Android Auto (actioned by Enel's service, JuicePass): https://infocuria.curia.europa.eu/tabs/document?source=document&docid=295687&doclang=en. - 08:53, Judge Mehta decides that AI is a separate product from search: https://www.npr.org/2025/09/19/nx-s1-5538073/google-search-antitrust-data-privacy. - 10:19, The European Commission triggered a non-compliance procedure against Google's site reputation abuse policy: https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/commission-opens-investigation-potential-digital-markets-act-breach-google-demoting-media-publishers-2025-11-13_en. - 11:23, Bauer Media announces major digital restructure with respect to Heat and Grazia magazines: https://digiday.com/media/bauer-media-group-slashes-publishing-headcount-in-company-wide-restructure/. - 12:41, The Daily Mail reported a +70% decline in click-through rates due to the introduction of AI Overviews: https://digiday.com/media/daily-mail-says-google-ai-overviews-have-killed-click-throughs/. - 13:36, Pew Research Center research on AI Overviews: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/07/22/google-users-are-less-likely-to-click-on-links-when-an-ai-summary-appears-in-the-results/. - 13:36, Enders Analysis research on AI Overviews: https://www.endersanalysis.com/reports/publishers-invisibility-problem-organic-traffic-under-pressure. - 13:36, MIT research on AI Overviews: https://www.mitsloanme.com/article/how-googles-near-accurate-ai-overviews-fuel-misinformation/. - 13:49, Google announces that it will roll out more AI Overviews: https://blog.google/products-and-platforms/products/search/search-io-2026/. - 14:15, SparkToro reporting on the zero-click world: https://sparktoro.com/blog/in-a-zero-click-world-traffic-is-a-terrible-goal/. - 16:41, Judge Mehta rules AI Overviews conduct as out of scope: https://www.brookings.edu/articles/google-decision-demonstrates-need-to-overhaul-competition-policy-for-ai-era/. - 26:15, Impact of AI on jobs in the UK: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/assessment-of-ai-capabilities-and-the-impact-on-the-uk-labour-market/assessment-of-ai-capabilities-and-the-impact-on-the-uk-labour-market. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to AI Overviews and Competition Law 01:22 The Complaint Against Google: Background and Context 10:49 Google's Defense and the Impact on Publishers 16:28 Global Regulatory Landscape and the Role of Authorities 23:19 Proposed Remedies and the Future of Competition To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.
S2 · E33
May 30 · 29 min
#32 The Hidden Economics of Digital Platforms w/ Prof. Frédéric Marty
This interview with Frédéric Marty explores the economics of digital platforms, competition law, and the impact of AI on market dynamics. It offers insights into the DMA and platform dependencies that shape the ordoliberal belief in the goals of competition. In the conversation, Fred touched upon a couple of rulings and pointed to a few of his recent research outputs. Click on those directly below: - 04:24, Sai Krishna Kamepalli, Raghuram G. Rajan, and Luigi Zingales' work on the kill zone: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3555915. - 10:20, The Court of Justice's recent Android Auto ruling (Case C-233/23): https://infocuria.curia.europa.eu/tabs/document?source=document&docid=295687&doclang=en. - 11:02, The traditional requirements for refusal to supply in EU competition law, Bronner (Case 7-97): https://infocuria.curia.europa.eu/tabs/affair?lang=en&sort=AFF_NUM-DESC&searchTerm=%22C-7%2F97%22&publishedId=C-7%2F97. - 14:11, Fred's paper alongside Patric Bougette and Oliver Budzinski on 'Ex-ante versus Ex-post in competition law enforcement: Blurred boundaries and economic rationale': https://doi.org/10.1016/j.irle.2025.106264. - 17:25, The French competition authority's report on cloud: https://www.autoritedelaconcurrence.fr/en/press-release/cloud-computing-autorite-de-la-concurrence-issues-its-market-study-competition-cloud. - 18:00, Data egress fees are charges from cloud providers (like AWS, Google Cloud or Azure) for transferring data out of their network or to another region. - 18:40, Fred's work co-authored with Thierry Warin on 'Digital Platforms' Information Concentration: From Keystone Players to Gatekeepers': https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3753779. - 21:17, The "Chevalier de la Palice" (Jacques II de Chabannes) was a 16th-century French nobleman and military commander. Following his death, his grieving troops composed a song in his honor. However, a famous line on his tombstone; "If he weren't dead, he would still be envied" ("S'il n'était pas mort, il ferait encore envie"), was misread centuries later as: "If he weren't dead, he would still be alive" ("S'il n'était pas mort, il serait en vie"). This is where the French word lapalissade (and the English derivative "lapalissian") comes from. - 25:19, Teodora Groza's PhD thesis on 'Governing Innovation: Antitrust and the Organization of Industry': https://sciencespo.hal.science/tel-05379990. To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.
S2 · E30
May 26 · 25 min
#31 A Tango Between Harms and Benefits: The EC's Draft Merger Guidelines w/ Prof. Nicolas Petit
This interview with Nicolas Petit explores the European Commission's draft Merger Guidelines, focusing on dynamic competition, resilience, innovation, and the evolving analytical framework in merger review. Find the Draft Merger Guidelines here: https://competition-policy.ec.europa.eu/document/download/46dde10f-85c1-4590-a3f4-2b71f85685ef_en?filename=Merger%20Guidelines%20-%20final%20for%20public%20consultation.pdf. In the episode, we referenced paragraphs of the Guidelines (find the transcriptions below) and some other developments. Click on the links below to access them directly: - 00:17, The Horizontal 2004 Merger Guidelines: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:52004XC0205(02). - 00:21, The Non-Horizontal 2008 Merger Guidelines: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:52008XC1018(03). - 05:42, Footnote 18 of the Draft Guidelines defining resilience: "the readiness and ability of the internal market or part of it to continue servicing customers and to anticipate, withstand and recover from serious shocks". - 08:35, Paragraph 25 of the Draft Guidelines: "If the merging parties consider that the merger gives rise to efficiencies, as part of their prospective analysis, they must articulate and substantiate, in due time, a ‘theory of benefit’. A theory of benefit sets out how specific merger efficiencies occur and maintain or enhance effective competition, to the benefit of consumers (...)". - 13:56, Paragraph 64 of the Draft Guidelines: "Market shares – especially those based on the previous year – may not fully reflect a firm’s market power (...)". - 14:06, Paragraph 80 of the Draft Guidelines: "In some industries or markets, a static assessment of market power does not fully capture a firm’s competitive strengths and weaknesses from a dynamic perspective. (...) In these cases, the Commission also considers various other factors to assess the influence on the competitive process that a firm may have (‘dynamic competitive potential’)". - 14:13, The moligopoly hypothesis: https://academic.oup.com/book/33503/chapter/287809787. - 14:28, Paragraph 101 of the Draft Guidelines: "In its competitive assessment, the Commission considers all competitive constraints faced by the merged firm irrespective of whether they arise from inside or outside the relevant market. Products that do not exert a sufficient competitive constraint on the merging firms’ products to belong to the same relevant market (out-of-market constraints) may still play an important role in the assessment of market power". - 16:59, Farrell and Shapiro's work on unilateral effects: https://faculty.haas.berkeley.edu/shapiro/alternative.pdf. - 17:02, Ivaldi, Rey and Tilore on tacit collusion and non-coordinated effects (https://www.tse-fr.eu/sites/default/files/medias/doc/wp/2003/tacit_collusion.pdf) and Steve Davies (https://publications.aston.ac.uk/id/eprint/18471/2/Tacit_collusion_firm_asymmetries_and_numbers.pdf). - 17:34, Paragraph 192 of the Draft Guidelines: "In cases where a transaction involves a small innovative company, including a startup, or an R&D project with a dynamic competitive potential, the Commission in principle does not find a SIEC in relation to any theory of harm, including the loss of innovation competition, potential competition, entrenchment and foreclosure (...)". - 22:16, The EC's Dow/DuPont case (https://competition-cases.ec.europa.eu/cases/M.7932) and Illumina/Grail case (https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/hu/ip_24_1964). - 23:45, Grail fails to develop cancer detection tests: https://www.statnews.com/2026/02/19/grail-cancer-test-galleri-results/. - 24:05, The Dynamic Competition Initiative: https://www.dynamiccompetition.com/. The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

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