In this grounding and practical solo episode of Straight Talking Sustainability, host Emma Burlow tackles the frustrating value-action gap (why 80% of people care yet nothing changes), revealing that sustainability fails not because colleagues don't care but because systems don't support change, friction remains everywhere, and everything stays optional rather than default.
Inspired by Outrage and Optimism podcast episode "Catastrophe Apathy" featuring Professor Lorraine Whitmarsh (University of Bath), Emma demonstrates how Swiss energy companies switching 250,000 customers to renewable tariffs by default (90% stayed versus 3% who opted in) proves behaviour change requires removing friction and creating new normals, not more awareness campaigns that just stress people out when they already care.
Emma opens, acknowledging spring's arrival has improved her mood a thousandfold, apologising for moany winter Emma, before diving into the chasm between caring and doing. At work this shows up as "that's not our process," "we don't have time," "that's not a priority," "we've always done it like this," "it didn't work last time." These aren't real blockers; they're human psychology prioritising things manageable by Friday 5pm.
Sustainability doesn't fail because people don't care (they do); it fails because systems don't support change. If systems are designed a certain way, most people go that way. Bucking trends is exhausting (punks, feminists, activists tried). At work you're not allowed to buck trends; processes and SOPs exist for reasons, making it very difficult to insert sustainability objectives that weren't there originally.
The Swiss Energy Default Example:
Professor Whitmarsh's brilliant case study: Swiss energy company switched 250,000 customers to renewable energy tariff by default (customers had to opt out if they didn't want it). 90% stayed for three years versus 3% who opted in when asked to choose.
It was friction-free (can't be bothered to change it, sounds like good idea) and slightly more expensive, yet worked. This echoes the food nudge research Emma covered weeks ago about menu reshuffling: take friction away, make it default. People respond "that's great Emma, but that in itself is really tricky," which is why Emma breaks it down into tiny pledges rather than wading in with great big heavy steel-toe-capped boots demanding sweeping change.
Finding Win-Wins Beyond Sustainability Language:
Look for hooks that aren't sustainability things: energy efficiency becomes cost saving, procurement becomes winning tender points through social value, travel policy reviews become putting pennies back in pockets whilst gaining carbon reductions anyway.
Sometimes removing the word "sustainability" removes the friction (oh I've heard all this before, don't want to do this, takes too long). Find things needing review, identify where to tweak rather than hitting with massive hammers, benefit people, help them, get wins anyway.
Emma's training encourages pledges (however small but significant and mandatory, not flippy-floppy optional) representing steps forward you won't go back from, crucially written down somewhere with sign-off. Smaller makes this easier.
Once you get tiny things, momentum builds, balls roll. Could be tiny with massive horizon (high ability), or low impact involving lots of people (high awareness like canteen disposables and recycling, not moving dials but demonstrative, specific rather than friction across whole company, becoming new defaults switching behaviours).
The New Normal Examples:
Smoking on tubes and pubs was old normal; bit by bit people stopped smoking in public places (not overnight, people complained, but here we are). Sometimes legislation is needed for big stuff, but in businesses what's your rule book? How can you move that ocean liner one degree?
Tiny pledge examples: meet six times yearly, drop to three with other three virtual (write it down, new normal, suddenly halved meeting travel, saved time in traffic, saved fuel). Add sustainability questions to procurement questionnaires (tiny things suppliers can do, not sky-is-limit impossible asks), signal year two will ask more, year three higher, setting them on roads to new normals.
Tiny Habits Method (BJ Fogg):
Behaviour change equals motivation plus ability plus prompt. Knowledge is not enough; awareness raising is not enough (just stresses people out when they already care). Need motivation (recognition and permission this is what we do now, we care, we're doing stuff sewn into operations not 24/7).
Need ability (can't make it really hard or leave to own devices; give routes like reduce travel, work with supply chain, product design). Need prompt (targets aren't prompts, they're obscure long-way-away someone-else's-problem; prompts are where you fall over it and have to do it, like gym buddy knocking with trainers saying "we're going," or work defaults where doing this requires doing that).
Finding Everyday Messengers:
Listen into corridors: project managers, procurement managers, office managers, operational leads, FDs, commercial leads. Get in their heads, find small places. Teams and peers lead behaviour change, colleagues reinforce it, templates and SOPs create defaults and prompts. Before you know it, it's everywhere, embedded.
The issue isn't you or your colleagues not caring; it's the friction (seems like hard work, why bother, not normal, optional). Whilst things stay optional/voluntary/nice-to-have/four-or-five-down priority lists, that ain't never gonna work (hide into nothing, very slow given challenges and truths we face).
Emma's client conversation: board thinks meeting challenging net zero targets is easier if three-to-four thousand (or even three-to-four hundred) people have better clues and can contribute, or just two people? Without critical mass, peer pressure, momentum, just whole tons of friction. Where's your friction? Where's your flow? Where's traction? What defaults can you flip? Might take long time but start small. People like positive progress, seeing things. Bring it home, make it new normal.
In this behaviour change and systems thinking episode, you'll discover:
Why sustainability fails despite 80% caring (systems don't support change, not lack of caring)
How Swiss energy defaults kept 90% on renewable tariffs versus 3% opting in
The tiny habits formula (motivation + ability + prompt, not just knowledge/awareness)
Why targets aren't prompts (obscure long-away) but defaults are (fall over it, have to do it)
How smoking bans became new normals bit-by-bit despite complaints
Why removing "sustainability" word sometimes removes the friction preventing action
The ocean liner principle (one degree movements, not massive sweeping change demands)
How everyday messengers (project/procurement/office managers) spread change better than sustainability teams
Why "that's not our process" isn't real blocker but human psychology prioritising Friday 5pm tasks
The critical mass requirement (peer pressure and momentum versus isolated friction)
Key Insights:
(02:15) The chasm reality: "Over 80% of people when surveyed do care and want to take sustainability actions. They say the right things and then nothing changes. There's a chasm... And for us in the industry, it's really bloody frustrating and draining."
(04:31) Systems not caring: "Sustainability doesn't fail because people don't care. It fails because the systems don't support change... If the system is designed a certain way, most people will go that way."
(06:37) Swiss default power: "Switched 250,000 customers to a renewable energy tariff by default... 90% stayed there for three years compared to 3% who opted in. It was friction free."
(08:59) Tiny pledges strategy: "Make pledges, however small, they need to be significant, but they can be small... that's specific, tiny, small, but it's mandatory. It's a step forward that you're not going to go back from."
(12:59) Tiny habits formula: "Behaviour change equals motivation, ability and prompt. So knowledge is not enough. Awareness raising is not enough. All that does is stresses people out because we know they already care."
(15:51) Everyday messengers: "Your project managers, your procurement managers, your office managers, your operational leads, your FD, your commercial leads... We need to get in their heads and find these small places. That's how we spread it."
(18:13) Critical mass necessity: "If we don't have critical mass, we don't have peer pressure, we don't have momentum, we just have a whole ton of friction."
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