State of the Second

You Shouldn’t Be In Love With Your First Gun (ft. Kore Essentials)

This week, John and Kailey sit down with Vince from Kore Essentials for one of the more honest conversations we've had on this show about the state of the firearms industry; what it gets wrong about new shooters, what it gets wrong about women, and why the people loudest online about wanting innovation are the same ones killing it. ----------------------- Special thanks to our sponsor for supporting this season! Kershaw Knives - Built for the everyday carry, ready for anything. Get your Kershaw today. Patriot Mobile – Get 1 month free with code “GOA” at checkout on their website! Right To Bear - Use code “GOA” for 15% off Life Membership

You Shouldn’t Be In Love With Your First Gun (ft. Kore Essentials)

This week, John and Kailey sit down with Vince from Kore Essentials for one of the more honest conversations we've had on this show about the state of the firearms industry; what it gets wrong about new shooters, what it gets wrong about women, and why the people loudest online about wanting innovation are the same ones killing it. ----------------------- Special thanks to our sponsor for supporting this season! Kershaw Knives - Built for the everyday carry, ready for anything. Get your Kershaw today. Patriot Mobile – Get 1 month free with code “GOA” at checkout on their website! Right To Bear - Use code “GOA” for 15% off Life Membership

17 States Will Ban Suppressors After the NFA Dies (ft. Jaguar Silencers)

This week Cody Bennion of Jaguar Silencers joins Kailey and John to talk 3D-printed cans in Inconel and titanium, why nobody in this industry measures decibels the same way, and why he has suppressors on his desk with 15,000 rounds through them that still don't need cleaning. ----------------------- Special thanks to our sponsor for supporting this season! Kershaw Knives - Built for the everyday carry, ready for anything. Get your Kershaw today. Patriot Mobile – Get 1 month free with code “GOA” at checkout on their website! Right To Bear - Use code “GOA” for 15% off Life Membership

Sights, Slides, Knives, Compasses: One Company Does It All (ft. Night Fision)

Kailey and John welcome back Rachel from Night Fision, the team behind Night Fision night sights, Glow Rhino, Cammenga compasses, and now Zaffiri Precision. Rachel breaks down why a sights company bought a slide maker, the push to own "everything north of the frame," what platforms are getting support next (Glock Gen 6, Ruger RXM, the P365), and why "do it right, not fast" beats rushing product out the door. ----------------------- Special thanks to our sponsor for supporting this season! Kershaw Knives - Built for the everyday carry, ready for anything. Get your Kershaw today. Patriot Mobile – Get 1 month free with code “GOA” at checkout on their website! Right To Bear - Use code “GOA” for 15% off Life Membership

50 Years of Building the Perfect .22 (ft. Volquartsen Firearms)

This week, Kailey and John sit down with Scott Volquartsen of Volquartsen Firearms, the Iowa family company building rimfire's finest since 1974. Scott makes the case that the humble .22 is the best on-ramp to the Second Amendment, explains how suppressors reshaped rimfire, argues the .22 Magnum is criminally underrated, and calls out the "high speed, low drag" marketing that's costing the industry its next generation of shooters. ----------------------- Special thanks to our sponsor for supporting this season! Kershaw Knives - Built for the everyday carry, ready for anything. Get your Kershaw today. Patriot Mobile – Get 1 month free with code “GOA” at checkout on their website! Right To Bear - Use code “GOA” for 15% off Life Membership

The "Redneck Cousin" Sneaking Gun Education Past the Algorithm (ft. Carlie Bodiford)

This week John and Kailey sit down with Carlie Bodiford to talk about going from college TikToks to 700K+ followers, using humor to reach people who've never touched a gun, and why the future of the Second Amendment comes down to one conversation at a time. Stick around for a spicy From the Soapbox. ___________ Register for GOALS GOA's 50th Anniversary, August 1–2 in Des Moines, IA. Tickets at gunowners.org/goals. ----------------------- Special thanks to our sponsor for supporting this season! Kershaw Knives - Built for the everyday carry, ready for anything. Get your Kershaw today. Patriot Mobile – Get 1 month free with code “GOA” at checkout on their website! Right To Bear - Use code “GOA” for 15% off Life Membership

The First Thing to Do After a Self-Defense Shooting (From a Lawyer) (ft. Attorneys For Freedom)

This week, Kailey sits down with Joey from Attorneys for Freedom, the law firm behind the Attorneys on Retainer program, to walk through what actually happens after a self-defense event, and the mistakes that turn a lawful shooting into a courtroom nightmare. AOR is at GOALS 2026. Come by Booth 2712 on Saturday, August 1 at 11 AM. Use promo code STATE OF THE SECOND for $50 off an individual plan or $25 off a family plan at attorneysonretainer.us. ___________ Register for GOALS GOA's 50th Anniversary, August 1–2 in Des Moines, IA. Tickets at gunowners.org/goals. ----------------------- Special thanks to our sponsor for supporting this season! Kershaw Knives - Built for the everyday carry, ready for anything. Get your Kershaw today. Patriot Mobile – Get 1 month free with code “GOA” at checkout on their website! Right To Bear - Use code “GOA” for 15% off Life Membership

One Rifle Took More Game Than His Other 62 Combined (ft. Steyr Arms)

This week, John and Kailey sit down with Jim of Steyr Arms to get into the AUG's rise to one of the most-fielded rifles in the world, the surprising Steyr link to the Mercedes G-Wagon, the new AREX pistol collaboration, and the engineering behind the Safe Bolt System, including the over-pressure test that lets a shooter walk away from a completely blocked barrel. Jim also breaks down the legendary Steyr Scout, the only rifle that meets every one of Jeff Cooper's original requirements, and why he's taken more game with it than his other 62 hunting rifles combined. ___________ Register for GOALS GOA's 50th Anniversary, August 1–2 in Des Moines, IA. Tickets at gunowners.org/goals. ----------------------- Special thanks to our sponsor for supporting this season! Kershaw Knives - Built for the everyday carry, ready for anything. Get your Kershaw today. Patriot Mobile – Get 1 month free with code “GOA” at checkout on their website! Right To Bear - Use code “GOA” for 15% off Life Membership

They Left a Live AR on YouTube for 24 Hours. Here's What Happened. (ft. NineLine)

This week, John and Nate from Nine Line Apparel are back for round two, and it goes everywhere: the new Gun Owners of America x Nine Line collab, why Gen Z is rediscovering patriotism, and the right way to welcome a first-time shooter to the range. Plus the live AR that sat on YouTube for 24 hours and did nothing. Grab the GOA x Nine Line gear __________ Register for GOALS GOA's 50th Anniversary, August 1–2 in Des Moines, IA. Tickets at gunowners.org/goals. ----------------------- Special thanks to our sponsor for supporting this season! Kershaw Knives - Built for the everyday carry, ready for anything. Get your Kershaw today. Patriot Mobile – Get 1 month free with code “GOA” at checkout on their website! Right To Bear - Use code “GOA” for 15% off Life Membership

The Rifle the Industry Was Too Scared to Build (ft. One Horse)

This week, John and Kailey sit down with Drew and Jeremy from One Horse to talk about building a 100% American-made AR that any gun owner can afford, and to drop a major announcement you won't want to miss. From 13 years at Anderson to launching their own brand in eight months, they break down what the "poverty pony" label gets wrong, how a quality American-made rifle lands at around $600, and why they refuse to chase the race to the bottom. ___________ Register for GOALS GOA's 50th Anniversary, August 1–2 in Des Moines, IA. Tickets at gunowners.org/goals. ----------------------- Special thanks to our sponsor for supporting this season! Ammo Squared -The smarter way to stockpile ammo, one round at a time. Start your ammo savings today Patriot Mobile – Get 1 month free with code “GOA” at checkout on their website! Right To Bear - Use code “GOA” for 15% off Life Membership

The Coolest Job in the Firearms Industry (ft. caliber.row)

Alex from Caliber Row joins hosts Kaylee and John to talk about what she calls one of the coolest jobs in the firearms industry: photographing and filming brands. Alex runs Caliber Row, where she specializes in photography, videography, and brand marketing for firearms companies. Her path started in Chicago, where she grew up on the Southside and shot in the fashion industry with agencies like Wilhelmina, Factor, and Ford. She applied on a whim to a job at apparel company GrunStyle, got hired despite limited firearms experience, ran its photography department, and stayed with the company for six years, moving with it from Chicago to Texas and later to Arizona. Much of the conversation is about women coming into a male-dominated industry. Alex says women are entering the space more than ever, and most of them are genuinely excited, educated, and skilled shooters. She also pushes back on a mindset she sees in some women who want to dominate or exclude men, arguing the industry should be a respected, equal space and that men built it. Kaylee, who is five feet tall and wears a child-size large glove, talks about how few options existed for someone her size when she bought her first gun, and how the influx of new gun owners has driven innovation and better ergonomics, pointing to firearms like the EAA tip-up and the Smith and Wesson EZ that work for people with limited mobility. Both hosts and Alex agree the community is growing stronger, not weaker, and that the Second Amendment community is made of many different subgroups that should row in the same direction. Alex describes the impact photography has in reaching people who are gun curious or hesitant, using her own story of moving from anti-gun Chicago to pro-gun Texas, where people showed her the ropes. She talks about acting as a fly on the wall on shoots, keeping the focus on the brand and the people rather than herself, and about how shoots bring veterans and groups together. She shares her favorite and wildest shoots, including photographing skydivers in a circle from the air and being on a C-130 and a Sherman tank, and she walks through her growing collection from the Glock 43X to a SIG P320 Spectre Comp Blackout, an MP5, and a POF Rogue she shoots in accurate AR matches. The episode closes with a spicy segment on flying with firearms, where John and Kaylee hammer the lack of standard TSA rules airport to airport, a TSA website policy change that conflicts with the law requiring the owner to be present, theft of gear in transit, and the need for federal protections when a flight gets rerouted into an anti-gun state. Questions this episode answers What is Caliber Row and what does Alex do in the firearms industry? Caliber Row is Alex's company, where she specializes in photography, videography, and brand marketing for firearms companies. She tells brands' stories visually, capturing the brand and its people rather than putting herself in the frame. How did Alex go from shooting fashion in Chicago to firearms photography? Alex shot fashion in Chicago with agencies like Wilhelmina, Factor, and Ford. She applied on a whim to apparel company GrunStyle, was hired despite limited firearms experience, ran its photography department, and stayed six years as it moved from Chicago to Texas to Arizona. What is it like to be a woman entering a male-dominated firearms industry? Alex says women are entering the space more than ever and most are genuinely excited, educated, and skilled shooters. She argues the industry should be a respected, equal space and pushes back on the mindset that women should dominate or exclude men. How has the growth of new gun owners changed firearm design and ergonomics? The influx of new gun owners has driven innovation and better ergonomics for people who were underserved before. Hosts point to firearms like the EAA tip-up and the Smith and Wesson EZ that work well for shooters with smaller hands or limited mobility. How can photography and storytelling reach people who are hesitant or gun curious? Alex believes photography and videography make the space relatable and remind people they share common ground. She draws on her own move from anti-gun Chicago to pro-gun Texas, where people showed her the ropes, to connect with those who are hesitant or curious. What were the wildest and coolest shoots Alex has ever captured? Alex's most memorable shoots include photographing skydivers in a circle from the air and working on a C-130 and a Sherman tank. She describes acting as a fly on the wall, keeping the focus on the brand and the people in front of her. What firearms are in Alex's personal collection, starting with her first gun? Alex's first firearm was a Glock 43X, and her collection has grown to include a SIG P320 Spectre Comp Blackout, an MP5, and a POF Rogue she shoots in accurate AR matches. What problems do gun owners face when flying with firearms through TSA? The hosts hammer the lack of standard TSA rules from airport to airport, a TSA website policy change that conflicts with the law requiring the owner to be present, and theft of gear in transit. They call for federal protections when a flight gets rerouted into an anti-gun state. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome and meet Alex from Caliber Row 00:28 — What Caliber Row is and what Alex shoots 01:12 — From Chicago fashion to GrunStyle and firearms 03:13 — Being a woman entering the firearms industry 05:30 — Wildest shoots: skydivers, C-130, Sherman tank 07:38 — Equality, not dominance, for women in the space 11:01 — A growing, more diverse industry and innovation 17:06 — Cliques and gatekeeping in the community 18:58 — The Second Amendment community is not monolithic 24:24 — How photography reaches the gun curious 27:18 — Alex's character arc from anti-gun to pro-gun 30:11 — Alex's collection from Glock 43X to MP5 and POF 32:42 — Spicy segment: flying with firearms and TSA 43:57 — Where to find Alex and GOALS Convention About the guest Alex is the founder of Caliber Row, where she specializes in photography, videography, and brand marketing within the firearms industry. Born and raised on the Southside of Chicago, she started out in the fashion industry, shooting for agencies including Wilhelmina, Factor, and Ford. She joined apparel company GrunStyle, ran its photography department, and stayed with the company for six years, moving with it from Chicago to Texas and later to Arizona. She grew up in a military family and has been doing firearms photography for over ten years. Her first firearm was a Glock 43X, and her collection now includes a SIG P320 Spectre Comp Blackout, an MP5, and a POF Rogue she shoots in accurate AR matches. Key quotes "So I am here to tell all y' all stories visually and creatively to represent your brands." — Alex "I had to prove that I knew what I was talking about and what I was shooting and the quality of things" — Alex "The day you stop learning is I think the day you become complacent." — Alex "we're seeing more of a community built between the relationship of the company and the end consumer" — Kaylee "photography and videography can be a huge source of visualization to just be relatable to people and to remind people that we all share the same space" — Alex "once you want to learn, I think it's not, it's not as scary as people think it is" — Alex

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How a Single Patch Built a Whole Business (ft. Patch Ops)

Tim and Michelle from Patch Ops join Kaylee and John on State of the Second to tell the story of how a single patch grew into a business. It started in 2018, when the couple wanted to send their kids to private school and Tim calculated they needed to make $50 more a day to afford it. Tim, a Marine, had been introduced to patches by an Army friend, and there was nothing on the market for Marines at the time. He made an 0331 MOS patch because he wanted one for himself, sent it to his fellow Marines, and the demand kept climbing. About three months after they launched, the Marine Corps put Velcro on its gear, and the market for Marine Corps patches opened up fast. Patch Ops turns eight years old in a couple months and has grown every year, starting from a $3,000 nest egg. The conversation moves into how the company operates and why staying close to the community matters. Tim says he is part of his own customer base, so if a design makes him laugh, he trusts that others will feel the same. The team works fast on pop culture moments, posting a Let's Go Brandon design within two hours of the moment. They test ideas as stickers and shirts first, and the ones that get a response become patches. Michelle, who came from the corporate world and left it during COVID to run day-to-day operations, explains the value of having both trickle sellers and fast sellers so the business stays afloat between hits. Tim describes their model as profit by volume rather than chasing one big order, and says he won't sacrifice his values for profit. Much of the episode is a broader talk about activism, media, and standing up for the Second Amendment. Tim argues that likes don't equal rights and pushes influencers to influence their own communities first. Kaylee points to GOA's tools, including emailing your congressman in about 30 seconds and a voting scorecard that helps people check a representative's actual record. Both sides warn about bills written to play on emotion, with firearms regulations hidden inside unrelated legislation, and about a media environment that rewards outrage over reason. They also push back on cancel culture and the loss of humor, and on judging people on their own side by how they look. Patch Ops closes by sharing new NFC-chip patches they filed a patent for, their custom and retail focus, and the piece of candy that comes in every order. Questions this episode answers How did Patch Ops get started, and what was the original goal behind it? Patch Ops began in 2018 when Tim and Michelle wanted to send their kids to private school and calculated they needed to make about $50 more a day to afford it. Tim, a Marine, made an 0331 MOS patch he wanted for himself, sent it to fellow Marines, and demand kept climbing from there. Why was there a gap in the market for Marine Corps patches when the company launched? When Patch Ops started, there was nothing on the market made for Marines. About three months after launch the Marine Corps put Velcro on its gear, which opened the market for Marine Corps patches almost overnight. How does Patch Ops decide which pop culture moments are worth turning into a patch? Tim treats himself as part of the customer base, so if a design makes him laugh he trusts others will feel the same. The team moves fast, posting a Let's Go Brandon design within two hours of the moment. How does the company test new designs before committing to producing them? Patch Ops tests ideas as stickers and shirts first, and the designs that get a strong response become patches. This lets the team see what lands before committing to a full patch run. What does Tim mean by profit by volume, and why won't he chase the big single order? Tim describes the model as profit by volume rather than chasing one big order, with both trickle sellers and fast sellers keeping the business afloat between hits. He says he won't sacrifice his values for profit. Why does Tim say likes don't equal rights, and what does he want influencers to do? Tim argues that likes don't equal rights and pushes influencers to influence their own communities first rather than just chasing engagement. The point is to turn online attention into real action for the Second Amendment, or 2A. How do lawmakers hide gun control inside unrelated bills, and how does Gun Owners of America help people see through it? Both sides warn that firearms regulations get hidden inside unrelated legislation written to play on emotion. Kaylee points to Gun Owners of America tools, including emailing your congressman in about 30 seconds and a voting scorecard that shows a representative's actual record. What is the new NFC-chip patch technology Patch Ops filed a patent for? Patch Ops shared new NFC-chip patches they filed a patent for, alongside their custom and retail focus. The episode notes a piece of candy comes in every order. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome and meet Tim and Michelle from Patch Ops 00:19 — The 2018 origin story and the $50-a-day goal 01:28 — Velcro on Marine gear opens the market 02:12 — Betting the $3,000 nest egg and women in the 2A 04:53 — From military patches into pop culture 08:55 — Memes, trends, and turning designs around in two hours 11:18 — Trickle sellers versus fast sellers 13:51 — Staying close to the community over chasing the dollar 17:52 — Be the example and influence your own community first 20:53 — Momentum and emailing Congress in 30 seconds 28:32 — How bills hide gun control and play on emotion 38:07 — From the Soapbox: comedy, cancel culture, and taking a joke 42:52 — Welcoming people in instead of pushing them out 46:50 — NFC-chip patches, custom work, and the candy in every order About the guest Tim is a co-founder of Patch Ops and a Marine Corps veteran who served in the infantry as a machine gunner, with the MOS 0331. He started the company in 2018 after an Army friend introduced him to patches, beginning with a Marine MOS patch he wanted for himself. He also runs another company as an engineer. Michelle co-founded Patch Ops and runs the day-to-day operations. She came from the corporate world and left it during COVID, about four years before this episode, to work for the company full time, and she is married to Tim. The couple is active politically at the local and state level. Key quotes "we needed to make $50 more a day to afford the private school system" — Tim "we're part of our own customer base" — Tim "I'm not going to sacrifice my values for profit" — Tim "likes don't equal rights" — Tim "Encourage creates courage" — Michelle "The Constitution restricts the government, not the people" — Tim

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How New Jersey Tries to Destroy Gun Owners (ft. Tony Simon)

Tony Simon, founder of the 2A Diversity Shoot, joins John and Kaylee to trace how he went from a gun kid on a Virginia farm to one of the most active Second Amendment advocates in New Jersey. He grew up on a farm in Virginia, shot on his high school air rifle team, and joined the Marine Corps. After getting out he moved to New Jersey, where the state's firearms ID card requirements stalled his gun ownership. A 2012 class with an NRA certified instructor friend rekindled it. He became an NRA certified instructor in rifle, pistol, and shotgun, and when Sandy Hook hit and New Jersey's legislature put forward 76 bills to impede gun rights, he got into advocacy. As the only black guy testifying out of 200 people, he realized the movement needed more people who looked like him to speak up. That realization became the 2A Diversity Shoot. In 2015 he partnered with Anthony Colandro of the Gun for Hire range to bring in people who don't fit the assumed gun owner profile, teach them firearms law, and connect them with Second Amendment advocates. The first event drew four people out of the 27 who said they would come, plus a New Jersey State Police firearms officer who showed up posing as a regular attendee. Colandro pushed him to keep running it until the room filled, then overfilled past fire code. Today Tony runs diversity shoots every two weeks at four different ranges across New Jersey, ran one in Pennsylvania for three years, and did a shoot in Omaha with the Nebraska Firearms Owners Association, and the events now sell out. Each event mixes pizza, raffle prizes, jokes, and a lot of shooting, with the goal of normalizing firearms ownership for people of every background. The conversation turns to a blunt message about complacency. Tony, originally from Virginia, describes watching his home state go from a place that would march on the Capitol to one that rolled over because people stopped participating and stopped voting in local and primary elections. He argues that local elections matter more than the presidential race, that gun owners say all the right things but perform none of the actions, and that even people worried about being put on a list can still fund others' work, vote, and be responsible gun owners. The From the Soapbox segment gets spicy, including Tony's take questioning how 'don't tread on me' squares with backing the thin blue line, and a running High Point versus Staccato bit. Kaylee closes with her own take that gun owners are getting elections wrong by accepting apathy, noting GOA's website lets you act in about 33 seconds and that five minutes a week could be transformative. Questions this episode answers How did Tony Simon get into firearms and Second Amendment advocacy? Tony Simon grew up on a Virginia farm, shot on his high school air rifle team, and served in the Marine Corps before moving to New Jersey. A 2012 class with an NRA certified instructor friend rekindled his interest, and after Sandy Hook prompted 76 New Jersey bills he saw as anti-gun, he got into advocacy. What is the 2A Diversity Shoot and how did it start? The 2A Diversity Shoot is a series of events that bring in people who don't fit the assumed gun owner profile, teach them firearms law, and connect them with Second Amendment advocates. Tony Simon launched it in 2015 after partnering with Anthony Colandro of the Gun for Hire range. Why does Tony Simon say local and primary elections matter more than the presidential election? Tony Simon argues that local and primary elections decide the policies and officials closest to gun owners, so they carry more weight than the presidential race. He says gun owners say all the right things but perform none of the actions, and that consistent local participation is what protects rights. What lesson does Tony Simon draw from Virginia's shift on gun laws? Tony Simon watched his home state of Virginia go from a place that would march on the Capitol to one that rolled over once people stopped voting in local and primary elections. His takeaway is that complacency, not a single election, is what flips a state's gun politics. How can gun owners take action even if they're worried about being put on a list? Tony Simon says even people worried about being on a list can still fund other advocates' work, vote, and be responsible gun owners. Kaylee adds that Gun Owners of America's website lets you act in about 33 seconds, and that five minutes a week could be transformative. What happened at the first diversity shoot event? The first event drew four people out of the 27 who said they would attend, plus a New Jersey State Police firearms officer who showed up posing as a regular attendee. Anthony Colandro pushed Tony Simon to keep running it until the room filled, and it later overfilled past fire code. How big has the 2A Diversity Shoot grown? Tony Simon now runs diversity shoots every two weeks at four New Jersey ranges, ran events in Pennsylvania for three years, and held one in Omaha with the Nebraska Firearms Owners Association. The sold-out events mix shooting with pizza, raffles, and jokes to normalize firearms ownership for everyone. Where can people find the 2A Diversity Shoot and follow Tony Simon? Tony Simon runs the 2A Diversity Shoot at diversityshoot.com and can be followed on Instagram at simonsaystrain. Chapters 00:00 — Meet Tony Simon, the gun bunny 01:55 — From a Virginia farm to New Jersey gun laws 03:30 — Sandy Hook, 76 bills, and getting into advocacy 04:19 — Starting the diversity shoot with Anthony Colandro 05:39 — The first event and the undercover cop 07:08 — Growing through COVID and across the state 09:40 — Have you seen victories in New Jersey 10:54 — Fight back: vote local and primaries 13:30 — How fast a state turns from red to blue 16:12 — Holding the pro-2A side accountable 19:33 — Normalizing firearms for every background 27:53 — From the Soapbox: spicy takes 30:38 — Apathy, ignorance, and 33 seconds to act 36:18 — Where to find Tony and goodbyes About the guest Tony Simon is the founder of the 2A Diversity Shoot (diversityshoot.com). Born and raised on a farm in Virginia, he shot on his high school air rifle team and joined the Marine Corps. After getting out, he moved to New Jersey, where firearms ID card requirements stalled his gun ownership. In 2012 he took a class from an NRA certified instructor friend and became an NRA certified instructor himself in rifle, pistol, and shotgun. After Sandy Hook, when New Jersey's legislature put forward 76 bills he saw as impeding gun rights, he got into advocacy and spent three years testifying, often as the only black person out of 200 people testifying. In 2015 he partnered with Anthony Colandro of the Gun for Hire range to launch the diversity shoot. He now runs events every two weeks at four ranges across New Jersey, ran events in Pennsylvania for three years, and did a diversity shoot in Omaha with the Nebraska Firearms Owners Association. He says he has been in New Jersey since the early 90s. Key quotes "Being a patriot isn't a part time job." — Tony Simon "Your local election is more important than the presidential election." — Tony Simon "We have so many gun owners. Again, they say all the right things, but they perform none of the actions." — Tony Simon "When you say don't tread on me, but you support the thin blue line, who do you think's doing the treading?" — Tony Simon "We have decided that apathy is acceptable and then we want to complain when things happen to the second amendment rather than understanding that ignorance is a curable disease." — Kaylee "I owe no loyalty to a political party." — Tony Simon

• Transcript

The Gun That Could Change Recoil Forever (ft. Rock Island Armory)

John McClane of Rock Island Armory joins hosts Kaylee and John to talk about how a budget-friendly firearms company from the Philippines built a recoil system he believes other manufacturers will copy once the patent runs out. John shares his path into the industry, from a closet gun owner who hid his first rifle under the bed for a year and a half, to a C-class USPSA shooter, to multiple Grand Master cards on Team Armscore. A chance EMT call between Vegas and Pahrump introduced him to the owner's family at Armscore and Rock Island, which led to a developmental shooting program, a sponsorship, and eventually his role as national training manager. The conversation centers on the company's product philosophy and its newest guns. John explains the late CEO Martin Tuason's stance on keeping firearms reliable and affordable, and why Rock Island refuses to raise prices just to look more expensive. He walks through the patented RVS recoil system in the 5.0, a pistol that took seven years to develop and that he says shoots like it has a compensator with a standard slide and barrel. He also covers the new Pack Out folding firearm in 14-inch and 18-inch barrel versions, the RIA USA factory in Cedar City, and the .22 TCM round and its 9R redesign that now fits Glock and CZ magazines. The TCM line is held back only by SAAMI spec, which the company is working to finalize. The episode closes with the From the Soapbox segment on a knowledge gap among post-COVID first-time gun owners. John argues the information is out there and the real problem is whether people seek it and whether the person behind the gun counter has the patience to help. He makes the case that one bad interaction can turn a new shooter off for good, and that the community gets stronger when experienced owners remember what it felt like to know nothing. He also explains Arms Corps U, his YouTube broadcast built to answer customer questions and drive demand for Rock Island products by name through distributors. Questions this episode answers How did John McClane go from a self-described closet gun owner to a sponsored Team Armscore competitor? He hid his first rifle under his bed for a year and a half, then shot USPSA as a C-class competitor. A chance EMT call near Pahrump connected him to the Armscore and Rock Island owner's family, leading to a developmental program, a sponsorship, and his role as national training manager. What is the RVS recoil system in the 5.0, and why does John think it could become an industry standard? The RVS is a patented recoil system in Rock Island Armory's 5.0 pistol, which took seven years to develop and, McClane says, shoots like it has a compensator while using a standard slide and barrel. He believes that once the patent runs out, other manufacturers will copy the system and make it the new standard. Why does Rock Island Armory keep its prices low instead of raising them to seem more premium? McClane points to late CEO Martin Tuason's philosophy of keeping firearms reliable and affordable. The company refuses to raise prices just to look more expensive, because a higher price could put a gun out of reach for a buyer who would otherwise afford it. What is the difference between Rock Island and Rock Island Armory USA? Rock Island Armory traces to a budget-friendly firearms company from the Philippines, while Rock Island Armory USA is the brand's domestic factory operation in Cedar City. How does the Pack Out folding firearm work, and what are the two barrel versions? The Pack Out is a new folding firearm from Rock Island Armory, offered in a 14-inch barrel version and an 18-inch barrel version. What is the .22 TCM round, and why is SAAMI spec holding it back? The .22 TCM is a Rock Island Armory cartridge whose 9R redesign now fits Glock and CZ magazines. Its broader rollout is held back only by SAAMI spec, which the company is still working to finalize. Is there a knowledge gap with post-COVID first-time gun owners, and whose responsibility is it to close it? McClane argues the information is already out there, so the real questions are whether new owners seek it out and whether the person behind the gun counter has the patience to help. He says one bad interaction can turn a new shooter off for good. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome and the retired fancy pants 01:16 — John's backstory and getting into the industry 02:43 — From C class to Team Armscore sponsorship 04:48 — Remembering CEO Martin Tuason 07:42 — Reliable and affordable: the pricing philosophy 10:57 — RIA USA, Cedar City, and the Pack Out 13:34 — The patented RVS recoil system in the 5.0 15:10 — From custom build to production gun 20:19 — Will fear of pushback hold back innovation? 22:00 — The .22 TCM round and the 9R redesign 28:18 — Soapbox: the post-COVID knowledge gap 32:15 — Patience behind the gun counter 38:02 — Arms Corps U and asking for products by name 41:26 — Where to find John and Rock Island About the guest John McClane is the national training manager at Rock Island Armory / Armscore, a role created for him after years as a sponsored competitor. He started shooting USPSA at the local level as a C-class shooter and has since earned multiple Grand Master cards, competing on Team Armscore and placing on the podium at Three Gun Nation and the Single Stack Nationals. He first met the owner's family of Armscore and Rock Island while working as an EMT for American Medical Response, responding to a car accident between Vegas and Pahrump. He shot the 5.0 at the world shoot in South Africa. He also runs Arms Corps U, a YouTube broadcast, and FPS Holsters, a holster company he started in his garage. Key quotes "So it all started when my parents told me that guns were bad." — John McClane "I bought my first rifle, and I hid it under my bed for a year and a half without my parents knowing." — John McClane "If I up the price by $100, someone might not be able to afford my gun anymore." — John McClane "I'm honestly a firm believer that once our patent runs out on that RVs recoil system, I would not be surprised if you started seeing that recoil system becoming the new standard for a lot of companies." — John McClane "That's actually just the start of your problems because in order to develop that gun and create the first version of it took you three years." — John McClane "So I think the information's out there. The question is whether or not the person wants to seek it out." — John McClane "You can make a lifetime customer out of a bad experience if you handle it correctly." — John McClane "We can make this community so much stronger if we just stopped self destructing ourselves." — John McClane

• Transcript

The Harrell Approach: Practical, Not Trendy (ft. Roy Harrell)

Roy Harrell joins State of the Second to talk about taking over his late brother Paul Harrell's firearms YouTube channel and keeping its practical, no-hype approach alive. Roy has been a cop for 37 years, started his law enforcement career in 1988 carrying a revolver, and has done hunter safety and firearms instructing, the same work his and Paul's father did. When Paul got sick, the brothers talked about the future of the channel and Paul asked Roy to take it over. They spent the next nine months before Paul passed working on videos together, with Paul giving pointers along the way. Roy is candid that being in front of the camera is intimidating, that it is not a one-take job, and that he doesn't write out full scripts the way Paul could, so the crew now films shorter monologues to keep takes manageable. Roy lays out how he picks video ideas. He checks whether Paul already covered a topic, then puts his own spin on it, and he pulls heavily from viewer comments and emails. The channel aims at the common man rather than the latest black guns, new Staccatos, or every AR platform. That means older firearms, ammo comparisons, and lower-recoil calibers like the .32, .22, and .25 that older shooters and people with arthritic hands keep asking about. Roy walks through a recent video on transitioning from a long gun to a handgun for someone who isn't in full battle-belt defense mode, and he shares his interest in historic law enforcement events like the Newhall shootout and old 1960s and 70s police training films. He brings a long firsthand view of the field, from the switch from revolvers to Glocks to carrying an M16A1 in Marine Corps boot camp. The soapbox segment turns to Oregon. Roy explains that 114, which would ban magazines over 10 rounds and require a permit and a class to buy a firearm, is sitting with the Oregon Supreme Court, and that the legislature is already writing new laws to keep the fight going. He wants to see the data behind the claim that a 10-round limit saves lives, points out there is no exception for someone with his age and experience to skip the class, and warns the rules would flood sheriff's offices and could put small gun stores out of business during a long pause in sales. He ties the shift to the greater Portland metro area outvoting the rest of the state and points listeners to groups like the Oregon Firearms Coalition. Roy closes on review integrity. Paul never took sponsors, and Roy is entering that world carefully, giving honest reviews even when a product fails. You can find the channel on Instagram and Facebook under Harrell Brothers in Arms, still listed under Paul as a nod to him. Questions this episode answers How did Roy Harrell end up taking over Paul Harrell's firearms YouTube channel? When his brother Paul got sick, the two discussed the channel's future and Paul asked Roy to take it over. They worked on videos together for the nine months before Paul passed, with Paul giving him pointers along the way. What is it like for Roy to go from behind the camera to in front of it? Roy is candid that being on camera is intimidating and not a one-take job. Unlike Paul, he doesn't write out full scripts, so the crew now films shorter monologues to keep the takes manageable. How does Roy decide what videos to make, and how does he handle topics Paul already covered? Roy checks whether Paul already covered a topic, then puts his own spin on it. He pulls his ideas heavily from viewer comments and emails. Why does the channel focus on older firearms and lower-recoil calibers instead of the latest AR platforms? The channel aims at the common man rather than the newest black guns or AR platforms. That means older firearms, ammo comparisons, and lower-recoil calibers like the .32, .22, and .25 that older shooters and people with arthritic hands keep asking about. What is Oregon's Measure 114 and where does it stand legally? Measure 114 would ban magazines over 10 rounds and require a permit and a class to buy a firearm. Roy says it is sitting with the Oregon Supreme Court while the legislature already writes new laws to keep the fight going. Why does Roy believe the permit and magazine law would hurt sheriff's offices and small gun stores? Roy warns the permit requirement would flood sheriff's offices and that a long pause in sales could put small gun stores out of business. He also wants to see the data behind the claim that a 10-round limit saves lives and notes there is no exception for someone with his age and experience to skip the class. How does Roy handle reviews when a product doesn't meet its claims, and why does sponsorship integrity matter to him? Roy gives honest reviews even when a product fails. Paul never took sponsors, so Roy is entering that world carefully to protect the channel's integrity. Where can listeners find Roy and the channel? The channel is on Instagram and Facebook under Harrell Brothers in Arms. It is still listed under Paul Harrell's name as a nod to him. Chapters 00:00 — Intro: Roy Harrell, the man behind the camera 00:41 — Roy's backstory and how he took over the channel 02:05 — Stepping in front of the camera 04:53 — Growing up around firearms and a love of teaching 07:13 — How Roy comes up with video ideas 09:09 — Serving the common man, not the black guns 10:18 — Transitioning from long gun to handgun 11:58 — The interest in .22, .25, and .32 calibers 15:01 — Historic shootouts and old police training films 19:43 — Living through the shift from revolvers to Glocks 21:04 — Revolvers, capacity, and how much ammo you really need 24:35 — Soapbox: Oregon's 114 32:54 — How Oregon got here and how to push back 34:50 — Honest reviews and entering the sponsor world 40:02 — Where to find the channel and closing About the guest Roy Harrell is the brother of the late Paul Harrell and the person who now runs Paul's firearms YouTube channel, which he took over at Paul's request after Paul got sick. He has been a law enforcement officer for 37 years, starting in 1988 carrying a revolver, and the host introduces him as a former deputy sheriff. He is a longtime hunter safety and firearms instructor, the same work his and Paul's father did. He went through Marine Corps boot camp with an M16A1 and served as active duty Air Force, including time in Honduras. He has lived in Oregon his entire life. The channel can be found on Instagram and Facebook under Harrell Brothers in Arms and is still listed under Paul Harrell's name as a nod to him. Key quotes "And he basically said, why don't you take over the channel?" — Roy Harrell "Just because it's old doesn't mean it's wrong, you know." — Roy Harrell "We give honest reviews on the things we evaluate" — Roy Harrell "I would love to see their data on where they say those are saving lives." — Roy Harrell "We are very delicately entering that world because we want to keep our integrity." — Roy Harrell "They're all really good. And then it's a matter of finding what fits you the best and your needs the best." — Roy Harrell

• Transcript

The Mom Who Reinvented Concealed Carry (ft. Anna Taylor)

Anna Taylor joins State of the Second to tell the story behind Dean Adams, the concealed carry company she built after a frustrating start with her own first gun. In 2013 she was a stay at home mom with four young kids in a shady part of Kansas City called Grandview, and her husband at the time traveled often. The conversations around Sandy Hook and the fear of losing rights pushed her to get her concealed carry permit. The gun store handed her the "shrink it and pink it" girl gun, she got home, and she could not find education or a way to carry that was comfortable, safe, and actually worked. She locked the gun up. Then she cut out a computer mousepad, sewed it to her postpartum wrap corset, and the gun disappeared under her T-shirt. That was the first prototype. Many designs later she launched her first concealed carry corset and kept going with education and instructor training. From that corset the line grew into thigh holsters built like shapewear, a bra holster, and concealed carry leggings. Anna walks John through the design priorities that separate a real holster from cloth: trigger protection, retention that does not slow your draw, consistent positioning that conceals on a woman's "squishy" spots, and a natural draw stroke that does not flag anyone with the muzzle. She also covers training as a mom, including running drills one handed while moving a child out of the way and covering a baby's ears on the draw. Her EDC is the P365, and she names her company after her grandfather, who taught her guns should be respected and not feared. The conversation gets personal and practical. Anna wrote a book, Intuitive by Design: A Woman's Guide to Fear and Self Defense, centered on mindset as the first line of defense. She shares her own history of abuse and the night a false alarm finally broke fear's hold on her. The hosts cover the media narrative around domestic abuse survivors and firearms, the "gun bunny" debate in the industry, her strategy of marketing to women through the men who buy for them, and detailed situational awareness habits for parents at the store and in the parking lot. She closes by teasing new products, including a first collection of smart holsters that integrate with a cell phone as part of a safety plan. Questions this episode answers How did Anna Taylor go from a frustrated new gun owner to founding a concealed carry company? In 2013, as a stay at home mom of four in Kansas City, Anna Taylor got her concealed carry permit but found no comfortable, safe way to carry the gun she was sold. With passion and a sense of duty rather than formal qualifications, she built a holster prototype and went on to launch Dean Adams. What was the very first holster prototype she made, and how did it work? She cut out a computer mousepad and sewed it to her postpartum wrap corset, which made the gun disappear under her T-shirt. After many design iterations, that first prototype became her concealed carry corset. What makes a holster actually safe, and why is retention more than just cloth? Anna says a real holster needs trigger protection, retention that holds the gun without slowing your draw, and consistent positioning that conceals on a woman's softer spots. It also has to allow a natural draw stroke that never points the muzzle at anyone. How can a mom train and carry while holding or wearing a child? Anna trains for it directly, running one handed drills while moving a child out of the way and covering a baby's ears on the draw. Her thinking is that under stress you default to how you've trained, so she practices the real scenario. What is Anna's book Intuitive by Design about, and what changed her relationship with fear? Intuitive by Design: A Woman's Guide to Fear and Self Defense centers on mindset as the first line of defense. Anna shares her own history of abuse and the night a false alarm finally broke fear's hold on her. How should domestic abuse survivors think about owning and carrying a firearm? Anna and the hosts discuss the media narrative around abuse survivors and guns, and her own experience as a survivor who decided she would do anything to stand between her kids and a predator. The episode frames firearm ownership as part of that survivor's safety plan. What is the "gun bunny" debate, and how has the industry changed for women in 13 years? The "gun bunny" debate weighs the industry's sexualized marketing against educated, serious female shooters. Anna reflects on how the gun store experience and the market for women have shifted over the 13 years since she started Dean Adams. What situational awareness habits does Anna teach parents for the store and parking lot? Anna teaches detailed awareness routines for parents at the store and in the parking lot, built on the idea that predators look for easy, weak targets. She also covers marketing to women through the men who buy firearms for them. Chapters 00:00 — Meet Anna Taylor, founder of Dean Adams 00:38 — The 2013 backstory and the first gun 02:05 — The mousepad and corset prototype 03:43 — Walking through the product line 09:56 — Has the gun store experience improved for women? 12:31 — The book on fear and self defense 16:40 — Making the decision to act before the moment 18:17 — Training and carrying with kids 23:10 — Domestic abuse survivors and the Second Amendment 29:09 — Soapbox: gun bunnies vs. educated women 30:21 — Marketing to women through the men 34:54 — The next trends in women's concealed carry 40:02 — Situational awareness for parents 45:16 — Where to find Anna and what's coming next About the guest Anna Taylor is the founder and CEO of Dean Adams, a concealed carry holster company she started in 2013. At the time she was a stay at home mom with four young kids living in the Grandview area of Kansas City, where her husband at the time traveled a lot. After a frustrating experience trying to carry her first gun, she built a holster prototype from a computer mousepad sewn to her postpartum corset, then pursued firearms education and instructor training. Thirteen years later her line includes the concealed carry corset, thigh holsters, a bra holster, and concealed carry leggings. She is also the author of Intuitive by Design: A Woman's Guide to Fear and Self Defense, teaches private firearms classes, and offers a line of e-learning material. Her company is named after her grandfather, who taught her that guns should be respected and not feared. Key quotes "So with no qualification other than passion and a sense of duty, I thought, I'm going to do something about this." — Anna Taylor "You have to have trigger protection, you have to have safe retention, but that doesn't slow down your draw." — Anna Taylor "Because when the fear hits, when the emergency happens, you will default to how you've trained." — Anna Taylor "I made the decision, I will do anything to stand between my kids and a predator." — Anna Taylor "Predators are looking for easy, weak targets." — Anna Taylor "He was big on family God, tradition, guns, his hunting, and taught me that guns should be respected and not feared." — Anna Taylor

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What High-Level Training Really Gives You (ft. Farewell Firearms)

Joe Farewell joins John and Kaylee for a conversation about what high-level firearms training actually delivers, and why the answer is rarely what new students expect. Joe is a former law enforcement officer and SWAT sniper team leader who spent seven years in policing in Florida before leaving toward the end of 2018 to teach full time. He's also a competitive shooter who represented Team USA at the IPSC Rifle World Shoot, taking silver in 2019 and gold in 2024. He walks through how competition shooting is structured, from local matches up to nationals and the World Shoot, which he calls the Olympics of practical shooting, and what it takes to travel overseas with guns and ammo through the paperwork each country requires. A through-line of the episode is Joe's training philosophy. He measures everything against three goals: the desired level of accuracy, speed, and consistency. He argues shooting is shooting whether the purpose is competition, self defense, or military use, so the fundamentals stay the same even as the application changes. He built the Dry Fire Mastery programs in 2020 during COVID after learning to improve on roughly 50 to 100 rounds a week by doing millions of dry fire repetitions for free. He explains why isolating a skill in dry fire and fixing it raises performance, and why understanding the why behind a drill matters more than burning a thousand rounds a day on flashy work. Joe is direct about the biggest misconception students bring to advanced classes: they expect to walk away a far better shooter after two days. He compares it to taking a gym class for two days in a row and expecting to be ripped. The real value of a class is the homework and the understanding of what to train and why. The conversation moves to his move from Florida to California, the gun culture and growing matches he's found there, the new laws affecting California gun owners, and his view that growing the competition community can shift the state's politics. He closes on gear: he runs Atlas pistols and Cobalt rifles, but shows up to teach law enforcement with a stock gun so the work, not the equipment, makes the point. Questions this episode answers What does high-level firearms training actually give you, and what can't it give you in two days? Joe Farewell says the real value of an advanced class is the homework and the understanding of what to train and why, not an overnight skill jump. Expecting to walk away a far better shooter after two days is like taking a gym class twice and expecting to be ripped. How is competitive shooting structured, from local matches up to the IPSC World Shoot? It runs from local matches up through nationals to the IPSC Rifle World Shoot, which Joe Farewell calls the Olympics of practical shooting. He represented Team USA there, taking silver in 2019 and gold in 2024. What's involved in traveling overseas with your firearms and ammunition for a match? Competing abroad means working through the firearm and ammunition paperwork each country requires before you can travel with your guns and ammo. Joe Farewell did this to shoot the IPSC Rifle World Shoot internationally. What are the three goals Joe measures every shooting skill against? Joe Farewell measures everything against accuracy, speed, and consistency. He argues shooting is shooting whether the purpose is competition, self defense, or military use, so the fundamentals stay the same even as the application changes. What is dry fire, and why does it raise your performance for free? Dry fire is repetition practice without live ammunition, which lets you isolate a single skill and fix it at no cost. Joe Farewell improved on roughly 50 to 100 live rounds a week by doing millions of dry fire reps, and built his Dry Fire Mastery programs in 2020 around that approach. Why did Joe leave law enforcement to teach firearms full time? Joe Farewell spent seven years in policing in Florida as a SWAT sniper team leader before leaving toward the end of 2018 to teach full time. He now runs Farewell Firearms Training, focused mostly on law enforcement, military, and instructor development. What is the gun culture and competition scene actually like in California? After moving from Florida to California, Joe Farewell found a real gun culture and growing matches there, alongside new laws affecting California gun owners. He believes growing the competition community can shift the state's politics. Does expensive gear make you a better shooter, or does it get in the way? Joe Farewell runs Atlas pistols and Cobalt rifles, but shows up to teach law enforcement with a stock gun so the work, not the equipment, makes the point. The skill comes from training, not the hardware. Chapters 00:00 — Meet Joe Farewell 00:51 — Two paths: competition and law enforcement 01:54 — How competition shooting is structured 03:37 — Traveling overseas with guns and ammo 06:18 — The shooting community in Europe 08:25 — Leaving law enforcement to teach full time 11:26 — The classes Joe teaches and the three goals 14:36 — Dry Fire Crew and the Dry Fire Mastery programs 18:57 — New gun owners and what to buy first 21:06 — Moving from Florida to California 29:30 — From the Soapbox: the flaws students bring to class 34:35 — Does gear make the shooter? 41:36 — Gift from PSA and wrap-up About the guest Joe Farewell is a former law enforcement officer and SWAT sniper team leader who spent seven years in policing in Florida before leaving toward the end of 2018 to teach firearms full time. He is a competitive shooter who represented Team USA at the IPSC Rifle World Shoot, winning silver in 2019 and gold in 2024. He founded Farewell Firearms Training, where he trains civilians, law enforcement, and military units with a practical, real-world approach, and his current focus is mostly law enforcement and military classes along with instructor development. In 2020 he started the Dry Fire Mastery programs, including multigun, competition handgun, carbine, and home defense courses. He started shooting matches around age 19 or 20, has about 15 years doing this, and recently moved from Florida to California. He shoots Atlas pistols and Cobalt rifles. Key quotes "So when you look at the goals of it, it doesn't matter what the purpose is, the fundamentals are still going to be the same." — Joe Farewell "By isolating it in dry fire and fixing it, it will skyrocket your performance and it's free." — Joe Farewell "If you can build a solid foundation of the skill set, the hard skills that you need to be able to accomplish the task, then you can focus on the tactical problem at hand." — Joe Farewell "The number one misconception that most people think when they go to a class is that they're going to walk away and be a significantly better shooter after a two day." — Joe Farewell "the only way to get better is by pushing yourself outside of what's comfortable." — Joe Farewell "Knowing how to train and what to train and why to train those things I think is what you should be going into more advanced class looking for." — Joe Farewell

• Transcript

Educate, Not Legislate: The Teal Shirt Strategy Explained (ft. Dianna Muller)

Dianna Muller joins State of the Second to explain the strategy behind the teal shirts and the slogan that defines her work: educate, not legislate. A retired Tulsa police officer turned professional competitive shooter, she walks host John through how she went from ignoring politics for most of her adult life to founding the DC Project and Women for Gun Rights. The turning point came when she stood in front of a congressman and asked whether professional shooters should be doing something to educate the people in that building. After Virginia fell in 2019, she realized the real fight was in the states, and she asked the women who had been coming to Washington to go home and meet their own legislators as gun owners. Much of the conversation is about why the other side keeps gaining ground. Muller argues that groups like Moms Demand Action are intentional, organized, and funded, citing a roughly 60 million dollar annual budget on their side against a David and Goliath gap on hers. She points to the Biden administration's Office of Gun Violence Prevention as government money that helped states write red flag laws and universal background checks, and she describes asking the White House for a Second Amendment counsel so the movement's organizations can strategize and row in the same direction. Her answer to the funding gap is participation: become a 40 or 50 dollar member of every Second Amendment organization, take one new person to the polls, and show up for the midterms. The episode closes on practical advice and a personal mission. Muller pushes listeners to be intentional, to study the arguments so they can actually answer why someone needs an AR-15 or why universal background checks are a bad idea, and to keep talking to people and media outlets even after being burned. She makes the case that women can carry the gun-rights message in a way legacy voices cannot, wants firearms and hunter safety education back in schools, and frames competition's pseudo stress as the real training that translates to carrying. She also shares the big announcement: Women for Gun Rights is moving to a paid membership model and launching a 501(c)(3) called Women for Gun Safety to reclaim the word safety, because in her words guns make you safer. Questions this episode answers What does the teal shirt 'educate, not legislate' strategy actually mean, and where did it come from? It is the message on the signature teal shirts worn by Dianna Muller's DC Project women, who meet legislators as gun owners to educate them rather than push new laws. The idea grew from Muller asking whether professional shooters should be educating the people inside government buildings. How did a retired police officer and competitive shooter end up founding the DC Project and Women for Gun Rights? Dianna Muller spent 22 years with the Tulsa Police Department before retiring to shoot professionally, and she ignored politics until she stood before a congressman and realized shooters needed to educate lawmakers. She built the DC Project around one woman per state, then took it to the states as Women for Gun Rights. Why does Dianna Muller say women can carry the Second Amendment message more effectively than traditional gun owners? Muller argues that women can carry the Second Amendment (2A) message in a way legacy voices cannot, reaching audiences that traditional gun owners struggle to reach. She pairs that with a personal mission to build firearms that actually fit women rather than 'shrink it and pink it' versions. How big is the funding gap between gun-rights groups and organizations like Moms Demand Action? Muller describes a David and Goliath gap, citing a roughly 60 million dollar annual budget on the other side, and calls groups like Moms Demand Action intentional, organized, and funded. She says government money under the Office of Gun Violence Prevention helped states write red flag and background check laws. What is a Second Amendment counsel and why is Muller asking the White House for one? It is a coordinating role Muller has asked the White House to create so the movement's organizations can strategize and row in the same direction. She frames it as a way to close the organizational gap with well-funded, intentional opponents on the other side. What can an ordinary gun owner do before the midterms to make a difference? Muller urges participation: become a 40 or 50 dollar member of every Second Amendment (2A) organization, take one new person to the polls, and show up for the midterms. She also says to study the arguments so you can answer why someone needs an AR-15 or why universal background checks are a bad idea. How should you actually contact your legislators, and who should you ask for when you call? Muller tells gun owners to meet their own state legislators in person as gun owners, the same model that built the DC Project. Her point is that it is not enough for you to know their name; they need to know your name. What new organization and membership changes is Women for Gun Rights launching? Women for Gun Rights is moving to a paid membership model and launching a 501(c)(3) called Women for Gun Safety. Muller says the goal is to reclaim the word safety, because in her view guns make you safer. Chapters 00:00 — Meet Dianna Muller and the road to advocacy 02:01 — The teal shirts and educate, not legislate 02:41 — A David and Goliath funding gap 03:12 — Paid membership coming in 2026 05:01 — Why women carry the message differently 07:42 — Government money and the fight in the states 10:57 — Be prepared to have the hard conversations 14:20 — Thirty years of the anti-gun message 16:14 — Take one person to the polls 19:07 — Building guns for women, beyond shrink it and pink it 22:25 — Winning hearts and minds in Virginia 28:55 — Soapbox: frustration with Republicans in power 31:37 — How to actually contact your legislators 42:46 — Firearms education and hunter safety in schools 51:13 — The 501(c)(3) reveal: Women for Gun Safety About the guest Dianna Muller is a retired law enforcement officer, professional competitive shooter, and Second Amendment advocate, best known as the founder of the DC Project and Women for Gun Rights. She spent 22 years with the Tulsa Police Department before retiring a little early to shoot professionally after picking up sponsorships. She started the DC Project by inviting one woman from every state to meet their legislators in Washington as gun owners, then expanded the effort to the state level under the Women for Gun Rights name. She shoots three gun: rifle, pistol, and shotgun. Key quotes "You'll see our signature teal shirts that say educate, not legislate." — Dianna Muller "I want to be safe, and disarming me doesn't make me any safer." — Dianna Muller "I love people when they say I don't pay attention to politics, but politics pays attention to you." — Dianna Muller "It's not enough for you to know their name. They need to know your name." — Dianna Muller "We're trying to take back that name because guns make you safer." — Dianna Muller "But for the most part, girls don't care. We just want stuff that runs." — Dianna Muller

• Transcript

The Real Purpose of the Second Amendment (ft. Atrius Development)

On this episode of State of the Second, host John sits down with Ryan from Atrius Development Group, the company behind the FRS (force reset selector). Ryan grew up around guns. His dad was ex-LAPD, he and his co-founder Malcolm served in the military, and he got into the industry around 19 or 20 at a startup near where he grew up, where he started by packing boxes and went on to help launch almost 700 accessories. He describes the accessory market as a place where you can be "an ally to everybody and enemy to nobody," and he frames Atrius as an extension of a manufacturer's product development team that fills gaps so brands can focus on building reliable weapon systems. Ryan walks through how the accessory market has driven real cultural shifts. SB Tactical's brace gave birth to the AR15 pistol, suppressor brands weren't even allowed at SHOT Show in the early 2000s, and he believes the force reset category is the next shift. He explains that the FRS is a drop-in, reverse-compatible semi-automatic solution that follows the letter of the law, and that Atrius wants it to reach common use across the biggest addressable market. He and Malcolm expected to get targeted but thought it would take two years. Instead it happened in about six months. He credits the community, the dealer network, and shouts out Tim Hoffman and Hoffman Tactical for carrying them through. He also points to the product's business impact. Dealers have called to say his product is selling so well they don't have to lay off their teams, and he calls it one of the few categories not feeling the "Trump slump." The conversation moves into advocacy and the meaning of the Second Amendment. Ryan argues weapons are an apolitical issue because everyone should have the right to firearms, and he says the system is weaponized against gun culture through debanking, fintech companies that won't support firearms businesses, and marketing agencies that won't work with gun brands. He frames the Second Amendment plainly. It's about overthrowing a tyrannical government, not just hunting or self-defense, and reminds listeners it's "the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs." He talks about normalizing gear and capability instead of gatekeeping it, having fun in the commercial space, and the new diversity of gun owners, including legal immigrants discovering the right to defend themselves. Looking at 2026, Ryan wants the FRS in the mainstream, an FRS ecosystem, and inline SKU support so a dealer's shelf has weapon systems with an FRS already installed. He closes by pointing people to Atrius on Instagram, and the show wraps with details on GOALS 2026, GOA's 50th anniversary celebration in Des Moines, Iowa, August 1st and 2nd. Questions this episode answers What is the FRS (force reset selector) from Atrius Development Group and how does it work? The FRS is Atrius Development Group's drop-in, reverse-compatible semi-automatic solution that Ryan says follows the letter of the law. Atrius wants it to reach common use across the largest addressable market. How has the accessory market driven cultural shifts in the firearms industry? Ryan points to accessories that reshaped the market: SB Tactical's brace gave rise to the AR15 pistol, and suppressor brands went from being barred at SHOT Show in the early 2000s to mainstream. He sees the force reset category as the next shift. Why does Atrius believe the force reset category is the next big shift after braces and suppressors? Ryan frames the FRS as a compliant, drop-in semi-automatic solution following braces and suppressors as the next category to reach common use. He and co-founder Malcolm expected to get targeted in two years, but it happened in about six months. How is the FRS helping local dealers and mom-and-pop shops survive a slow market? Ryan says dealers have called to tell him the product is selling so well they don't have to lay off their teams. He calls force reset one of the few categories not feeling the slowdown he refers to as the Trump slump. What does Ryan believe the real purpose of the Second Amendment is? Ryan argues the Second Amendment is strictly about the ability to overthrow a tyrannical government, not just hunting or self-defense. He reminds listeners it is the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs. How is the system weaponized against gun businesses through debanking and marketing? Ryan says gun culture is targeted through debanking, fintech companies that won't support firearms businesses, and marketing agencies that refuse to work with gun brands. He views the right to firearms as an apolitical issue. What does Ryan see happening with the FRS category in 2026? For 2026 Ryan wants the FRS in the mainstream, a full FRS ecosystem, and inline SKU support so a dealer's shelf can carry complete weapon systems with an FRS already installed. Why does Ryan believe collaboration between firearms brands has replaced rivalry? Ryan describes the accessory space as a place to be an ally to everybody and an enemy to nobody, and says brands increasingly have to work together for everyone to win. He frames Atrius as an extension of a manufacturer's product development team. Chapters 00:00 — Meet Ryan and Atrius Development Group 01:36 — Growing up a gun nerd and his why 03:05 — Ryan's top five guns of all time 04:49 — The old guard, collaboration, and the cultural shift 08:13 — How the accessory market grew from compliance 09:47 — SB Tactical, the AR15 pistol, and what comes next 11:13 — The FRS adoption that happened in six months 15:58 — California's accessory ban and supporting dealers 18:48 — The Trump slump and saving mom-and-pop shops 21:55 — Government overreach and the drive toward advocacy 27:43 — The real purpose of the Second Amendment 31:31 — SHOT Show, the community, and normalizing the gear 38:28 — Soapbox: absolutists on the Second Amendment 40:09 — 2026, the FRS ecosystem, and inline SKU support 45:55 — Dave at Matador Arms and playing for keeps 53:39 — Where to find Atrius and GOALS 2026 wrap-up About the guest Ryan is a co-founder of Atrius Development Group, which he started with his best friend Malcolm. He has been in the firearms industry since he was around 19 or 20 years old. He and Malcolm both served in the military, and his father was ex-LAPD. Before founding Atrius, he spent almost his entire career at one company, starting by packing boxes, where he helped launch close to 700 accessories in support of high-volume platforms. Atrius makes the FRS (force reset selector), a drop-in, reverse-compatible semi-automatic solution. He previously released a P80 frame with Dave of Matador Arms. Key quotes "The Second amendment is strictly about overthrowing a tyrannical government. That's the whole sole purpose." — Ryan "it's the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs." — Ryan "I believe weapons is an apolitical stance because everyone should have the right to firearms." — Ryan "we have dealers call us, tell us, like, hey, Ryan, I just want you to know, like, your product is doing so well, I don't have to lay off my team" — Ryan "I think people are starting to realize, like, you kind of have to, like, work together in order for everyone to win." — Ryan "I think everyone has an obligation to understand where it comes from, you know, because it's not just about hunting." — Ryan "the brick and mortar is the lifeblood of this industry." — John

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Why The Gundies Keep Growing (And Why They Keep Doing It)

The Forge Relations team returns to State of the Second for a post-Gundies wrap-up, and this year's show was different in one major way: it went live. Ben and Will explain that Ben had pushed a live stream for years before they finally pulled it off, and the deciding factor was finding the right home for it. YouTube was a non-starter because the platform told them a stream would be cut if a guest said something against its guidelines, and with the level of investment involved, a mid-show cutoff was a risk they couldn't take. Rumble stepped in, set up the account, and gave them internal team support. The result, by their own account, was the best year yet, with just under a thousand confirmed attendees in the room, around 200,000 watching the stream, and a noticeably more senior crowd of owners and C-suite leaders at the Venetian Theater during SHOT. Much of the conversation is about why a marketing agency keeps taking on an event this size. Ben and Will are blunt that the Gundies is separate from Forge and isn't a money-maker. They put roughly 3,500 man hours into it this year on top of running the agency, and every year they have the same internal debate about whether it's worth the headache. They keep going because they believe in the industry and the community, and because the event grows everyone together. A creator who misses top five still gets new eyes from people who'd never seen them, since voters have to look at every name in a category. The hosts back this up from backstage: even Hickok, with 10 million subscribers, was genuinely excited to win, and John says he's watched sub counts climb after the Gundies post. Ben and Will also address this year's drama head on, saying voting has always been organic, that more followers means more votes is a volume game and not rigging, and that they said their piece and won't turn the drama machine on. The episode closes with two forward-looking pieces. First, the Gundies is becoming a standalone brand and will no longer go dark after the show. It's launching its first-ever trivia night at GOA's GOALS event, a 2A-themed game with real prizes from sponsors including title sponsor PSA, and the hosts say they'll also work with Rumble on it. GOALS runs August 1st and 2nd in Des Moines, Iowa, marking GOA's 50th anniversary, and Forge is providing Saturday night's entertainment. Second, in the Soapbox segment, Ben and Will talk about getting new gun owners off the fence and into the community. Their answers center on content: let mainstream outlets show the industry without a political spin, represent the new customer who often doesn't look like the standard gun owner, and for aspiring creators, be authentic, stay consistent, and don't wait for perfect before posting. Questions this episode answers Why did The Gundies finally go live this year, and why on Rumble instead of YouTube? Ben had pushed for a live stream for years, and the show finally went live once they found the right home. YouTube was ruled out because the platform said a stream could be cut if a guest violated its guidelines, a risk too large for the investment, so Rumble stepped in, set up the account, and provided team support. How big was the show this year in terms of attendees and stream viewers? By Ben and Will's account it was the best year yet, with just under a thousand confirmed attendees in the room and around 200,000 people watching the stream. The crowd at the Venetian Theater during SHOT was also noticeably more senior, with more owners and C-suite leaders. How many hours does Forge actually put into producing The Gundies? Ben and Will say they put roughly 3,500 man hours into the event this year, on top of running the agency. The Gundies is separate from Forge Relations and is not a money-maker. Why does a marketing agency keep running an event that doesn't make money? Ben and Will keep going because they believe in the firearms industry and community and want to see it grow, since that growth benefits everyone. They have the same internal debate every year about whether the headache is worth it, and they keep choosing to do it. How did Forge respond to this year's accusations that the voting was rigged? Ben and Will addressed the drama directly, saying voting has always been organic and that more followers meaning more votes is a volume game, not rigging. They said their piece and chose not to feed the drama machine further. What does a creator gain from being nominated even if they don't win? Because voters have to look at every name in a category, a nominee who misses the top five still gets new eyes from people who had never seen them. The hosts note even Hickok, with 10 million subscribers, was genuinely excited to win, and John has watched subscriber counts climb after a Gundies post. What is the new Gundies trivia night at GOALS, and what can attendees expect? The Gundies is launching its first-ever trivia night, a Second Amendment themed game with real prizes from sponsors including title sponsor PSA. It runs at GOA's GOALS event in Des Moines, Iowa on August 1st and 2nd, with Forge providing Saturday night's entertainment. What advice do Ben and Will give to new gun owners and aspiring content creators? For new gun owners, they want mainstream content that shows the industry without a political spin and represents customers who don't fit the standard mold. For aspiring creators, the advice is to be authentic, stay consistent, and not wait for perfect before posting. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome back to Forge for the post-Gundies wrap-up 00:48 — Why this year went live, and why not YouTube 02:04 — Rumble steps in to make the live stream happen 03:09 — Best year yet: C-suite in the room, seven years of growth 04:53 — 3,500 man hours and the entertainment push 07:07 — The grand prize winner and what voting really buys you 09:05 — John and Kaylee's view from backstage 11:48 — Why GOA sponsors its category and never gave it up 13:31 — Addressing this year's drama and the rigging accusations 17:09 — Organic voting and why being nominated still wins 24:51 — Announcement: the Gundies becomes its own brand 25:25 — First-ever Gundies trivia night at GOA GOALS 35:54 — GOALS, the 50th anniversary, and registering early 40:47 — Soapbox: getting new gun owners into the community 45:21 — Advice for aspiring content creators: be authentic About the guest Ben and Will are with Forge Relations, the marketing agency that produces the Gundies firearms industry awards show. The hosts describe them as gun owners first, and they call themselves a marketing agency that also does events. In this episode they describe the Gundies as separate from Forge and built for the firearms industry and community, not as a revenue source. This was around their third appearance on State of the Second. The Gundies is heading into its eighth year, with the awards show held at the Venetian Theater during SHOT. Key quotes "The biggest compliment we got was about who was in the room." — Ben Stacy "We believe in this industry and we believe in the community and we want to see the community grow because that's going to benefit all of us." — Ben Stacy "At the end of the day, we created this event for our industry." — Will Renke "It's not that it's rigged, it's just it's a volume game." — Will Renke "The whole point of the event is to network together." — Will Renke "The only way you're going to get better on camera is just to put the content out there." — Ben Stacy

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