Ben Opipari
In-depth interviews with songwriters about their songwriting process. Nothing else. No talk of band drama, band names, or tour stories. Treating songwriters as writers, plain and simple. By Ben Opipari, English Lit Ph.D.
Go Dawgs! Loved having the Athens-bred Futurebirds on the pod. They're no longer college students at the University of Georgia, of course, but as longtime friends and bandmates they've evolved from students to family men. As you'll hear, their songwriting processes have evolved accordingly. The latest album by Futurebirds is Far Out Country.
"If I could sum up my process, it would be this: finish everything," says Ben Gibbard of Death Cab for Cutie. "I finish every song I start even if I know in the first verse that it’s a complete pile of shit. I finish it because there might be a lyrical idea or a theme in the third verse or the chorus or the bridge that I can use somewhere else." Unsurprisingly, Gibbard calls himself a "completionist." He finishes every song he starts writing, every book he begins reading. It's no mystery why he's so prolific, of course, but Gibbard's productivity is due to his efficiency: there's a purpose to everything he does in his creative process. He knows what works, and he knows what doesn't. Death Cab for Cutie's latest album is I Built You a Tower.
Greg Mendez has a shelved album concept that he says you can have if you're a songwriter. The plan was to center each song around the rhythm of a different car's turn signal, and the title of the song would simply be the car's name (so "2003 Honda Accord," for example.) It never came to fruition of course, but it illustrates Mendez's hyperfocus on his environment as he mines for song ideas. Mendez's latest album is Beauty Land.
The formula is simple. Step one, read great Irish literature. Step two, write killer songs. It's worked pretty well for Euan Manning of Cardinals so far. The Irish songwriter for the Cork-based band rattles off writers who have influenced him, and my god does he have impeccable taste: Flann O'Brien, Martin McDonagh, Kevin Barry, among others. As I always say, a clear through line travels from reading great writing to writing great words. The debut album by Cardinals is Masquerade.
"A great way to write is to overwrite. Write more verses than could be contained in a song. Then take the best of what's there," says Rostam Batmanglij. I cannot agree more: good writers know that the first pass is never the time to decide what to keep and what to leave out. Overwriting will always be faster. Just ask Anne Lamott. Of course, overwriting for Rostam comes easy because when he's not writing, he's thinking about writing. "I'm always collecting building blocks," he says. "Lots of kernels all the time. I've never truly let go of an idea." Rostam's latest album is American Stories.
"When I'm not self-conscious, I tend to write better stuff. I need the dud sessions before I make progress," says Emma Jansson of Girl Scout. Good writing in the initial stages is indeed all about getting out of your own way and applying the Anne Lamott method. And it's why Jansson often starts her writing process with a pen and paper instead of a keyboard because, as she explains, "I don't edit as much when I use pen and paper. I respect the initial thought more." Girl Scout's debut album Brink is out now.
"We should see how many disco records were made in the winter," Kevin Drew of Broken Social Scene said. And with that, we ventured into the intersection of songwriting and meteorology: how weather patterns and temperature affect the creative mind. The Canadian songwriters I've interviewed tend to be seasonal writers. Many tend to write more during the winter, when they're likely to be holed up inside. Drew and I even dared start a new east coast vs. west coast feud as we pondered whether east coast writers are more productive because their seasons are more defined. But regardless of location, Drew says morning is his best time for writing because "it's one of your best chances to be free." The latest Broken Social Scene album is Remember the Humans on Arts & Crafts Records.
Jena Malone had me at the poet Edna St. Vincent Millay. When the actor/songwriter started our discussion talking about Millay and the profound effect poetry has on her songwriting process, I swooned. There’s a theme here: I’ve had a lot of actor/songwriters on the pod recently (Maya Hawke, Sasha Spielberg, The Wolff Brothers) and it’s not surprising that, given their other day jobs when they’re not singing, language is particularly important in their songwriting process. Malone is also a parent, and we discuss the role that motherhood plays in her songwriting process. But as you’ll hear, for Malone there’s no place like the back of an Uber to do some good writing. Her latest album is Flowers for Men.
All you need to know about Maya Hawke's dedication to wordcraft is summed up in this memory: "The day I fell in love with my husband was the day we got into a fight about free verse poetry versus formal poetry." (Hawke's husband is singer/songwriter Christian Lee Hutson, whom I interviewed last year.) Hawke is of course an actor (Stranger Things, Inside Out 2, among others) and a visual artist, but she's really a poet, first and foremost. Rarely have I encountered a songwriter with such passion for the literary artistry of the words on the page: how they sound, how they feel, how they look, what they mean. By the way, Hawke was on the side of formal poetry in that argument. Maya Hawke's latest album is Maitreya Corso on Mom+Pop Records.
As a bilingual artist, Lolo Zouaï uses both English and French on her new album Reverie. Sometimes it's because the meaning of a word in one language is more precise for the song, while other times the sound of the word fits the melody better. We take a deep dive into Zouaï's songwriting process and discuss why she's not good at late-night writing sessions, why the bathroom is a great place to get rid of writer's block, and why she's much more productive when working on many things at once.
Donovan Woods is the master of the pull quote when it comes to the songwriting process. His words are wise counsel for any songwriter. To wit: "A good song asks questions rather than provides wisdom," and "When I have writer's block, it's because I'm not reading enough." I'll quibble slightly with the latter quote only because I cannot imagine Woods getting writer's block: the last three minutes of this episode are nothing but Woods listing all the authors who inspire him. And that includes the iconic poet Paul Muldoon, a recent guest on this show whom Woods and I spend a few minutes swooning over. The latest EP by Donovan Woods is Squander Your Gifts.
I wasn't surprised when Sasha Spielberg--an actor, visual artist, and musician who records as Buzzy Lee--told me that she once cried listening to the score to E.T., one of her father's most famous movies. I was surprised, however, when she told me that she also cried watching "The Real Housewives of Orange County." But that's why this convo with Spielberg is one of the funnest I've ever done. (And yes, funnest is a word.) As you'll hear, both events are tied to her creative process. I've interviewed many songwriters with careers in other artistic mediums (Jeff Daniels, Kevin Bacon, The Wolff Brothers, Jena Malone, among others), and I'm always interested in exploring how their processes overlap and influence each other. We go deep into that here. But we also talk about why Spielberg loves to write with a cheap old school Bic pen and why a quick, efficient shower is a boon to her songwriting process. Spielberg's latest album as Buzzy Lee is Shoulder to Shoulder.
Morgan Nagler has co-written with HAIM, Phoebe Bridgers, Kim Deal, Madi Diaz, and Margo Price among others. And now comes her fantastic debut solo album I've Got Nothing to Lose, and I'm Losing It. We go deep into her songwriting process on the pod, including a discussion of why physical movement is so important to the creative process.