Songwriters on Process

Ben Opipari

In-depth interviews with songwriters about their songwriting process. Nothing else. No talk of band drama, band names, or tour stories. Treating songwriters as writers, plain and simple. By Ben Opipari, English Lit Ph.D.

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203 episodes
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Episodes203

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Mar 15, 2022 · 1 hr
Brian Fallon and Tracii Guns
Did you know that "The Ballad of Jayne" by LA Guns was one of the first songs Brian Fallon learned on guitar? Or that Tracii Guns is a huge Brian Fallon fan? This interview is from the early stages of the pandemic, September 2020. It's interesting to hear people talk about making and playing music in what seemed like a different time. I got these two together after noticing that they always commented on each other's social media posts. Little did I know this was the first time they met! This is the third time I've interviewed Fallon, and I've been a Tracii Guns fan since, well, forever.
Mar 12, 2022 · 33 min
Erin Rae
Erin Rae needs three things for her songwriting process: a hardwood floor, a phone on airplane mode, and glowiness. Rae typically gets compared to 70s singer/songwriters like Joni Mitchell and Jackson Browne. It seems like every review has the obligatory "Laurel Canyon" reference. But heck: these are just good songs, period. No comparison needed. Erin Rae's latest album Lighten Up is out now on Thirty Tigers Records.
Mar 9, 2022 · 44 min
Kathy Valentine of the Go-Go's
“It's important to me as a writer to push myself out of my comfort zone in order to grow. That's what excites me now.” With her terrific memoir All I Ever Wanted, bassist Kathy Valentine of the Go-Go’s loves exploring new genres outside of songwriting. As one of the songwriters for The Go-Go’s, Valentine wrote two of their most popular hits in “Vacation” and “Head Over Heels” as well as several other songs. So we’ve been able to check "killer songwriter” off the list for a while. Now we can add “fantastic prose writer”: All I Ever Wanted is a great book. Our interview was a discussion about Valentine’s process as a songwriter and a prose writer, with a focus on the latter.
Mar 6, 2022 · 42 min
Tomberlin
For Tomberlin, songwriting is emotional and heavy work. It’s not always pleasant. There’s a lot of emotional prodding and digging. The word “processing” came up a lot in my interview with Sarah Beth Tomberlin (aka Tomberlin) when she discussed how she writes songs. She uses songwriting as a way to process the events in her life, much more so than most songwriters have shared with me. But it’s difficult to write songs when things are “pleasant” in her life. “There’s no urgency to the process in that case,” she says. It’s the difficult events that she writes about, and these events require distance before she’s able to process them.
Mar 4, 2022 · 37 min
Emily Scott Robinson
Bank pens and vacuum cleaners: the keys to Emily Scott Robinson's songwriting process. Robinson and I both agree that having a writing ritual is important. Rituals give us confidence and comfort. But they also help us achieve a flow state where the writing just happens: you don't have to think about the words because they issue forth. It's when you're on a roll. Achieving this flow state is hard, so that's where the bank pens and vacuum cleaners come in. Robinson is a pen-and-paper person for her lyrics. And there's something about the smoothness of those cheap ball point pens from her local bank that she finds irresistible. When she writes with them, the words flow. So if you see Robinson in your local bank branch when she's on tour, she may be doing more than just a bank transaction. As for the vacuum cleaner, that's for generating ideas. We talked a lot about the role of movement to the songwriting process. Most songwriters tell me that they get ideas while walking, running, hiking, biking, swimming, or driving. I've also heard cooking and gardening. But Robinson is the first one to cite an upright vacuum. It's not the vacuum itself that gives her ideas, but the repetitive and monotonous movement that helps her brain focus on the writing process, just as it does with the repetitive motion of walking, running, or cutting vegetables. And when your brain can engage in an activity that involves minimal higher order thinking, it can then use that space for creativity.
Mar 1, 2022 · 46 min
Jeff Daniels
“You’ve got to be open, you’ve got to fire the judge, you’ve just got to receive it all.” If you want to be a writer of any genre, says songwriter (and, yes, actor) Jeff Daniels, you also have to keep your radar on 24/7 for what you see and hear. And be prepared to steal it. Sure, you know Jeff Daniels from his many films, but he's also been writing songs and playing guitar since 1976. This is a conversation about the artistic process writ large, so if you're a songwriter, a playwright, an actor, or any combination of the three, you’ll love this interview. The playwriting process and the songwriting process overlap as Daniels effortlessly segues between the two in our discussion; at some point, he exclaims, "It's all fucking connected!" Daniels also says that being an actor has opened up the “get it all out” free for all in the initial stages of the writing process, both as a songwriter and a playwright. In other words, he’s a big fan of just spilling everything on the page and then editing out the bad stuff later. But with experience, he told me, “at least the quality of the garbage has gotten better.
Feb 27, 2022 · 1 hr 13 min
Patterson Hood (Drive-By Truckers) and Lilly Hiatt
"The good songs happen like someone is playing a record in space, and I have an antennae to pick it up. I actually hear it, and write it down as quickly as I can.”—Patterson Hood. "You don’t just get to have the muse all the time. It’s mysterious. But you have to experience stuff and have time to process those experiences to be able to write about them."—Lilly Hiatt. There are two different points during my interview with Patterson Hood of Drive-By Truckers and Lilly Hiatt when each reaches to the sky, grabs a piece of air, and pulls it down. Both were describing their songwriting process: songs come from the muse, from the sky, from somewhere they can’t explain. And it’s their duty to grab that song, pull it down, and create it. Both Hood and Hiatt talk about the need to create. It’s not something they do because it’s their job or because they enjoy it. Those things are true, of course. But songwriting is such a part of their lives that it’s almost a matter of survival.
Feb 26, 2022 · 27 min
Martin Sexton
When singer/songwriter Martin Sexton gets in a rut, he turns to chaos. Some songwriters take a break, some take a walk, others plow through until they get a breakthrough. But Sexton needs disruption. He uses two radios at once, one on each side of his computer. Each radio plays a different genre. It could be talk radio and rock, classical and country. The sounds don't matter because the goal is to drive his editor crazy. Sexton says that his ruts happen when he gets in his own way: too much editing, too much thinking about what he's writing when the goal is to just get stuff down. "Two radios at once allows the other stuff to come in. It distracts my brain so I can just write," he says. With different songs coming from each side, he can't focus on either. "The chaos confuses the editor and hopefully drives it away." It's a great way to jumpstart his writing. When he's not in a rut, Sexton prefers silence. His favorite place to write is the family cabin deep in the Adirondack Mountains, where he lives in the summer and visits in the winter. "It's a magical place. I'm surrounded by clean air and clean water and nature. I'll sit at the table and write for hours," Sexton told me. "I love the dead quiet. There's no one around. Just me and the coyotes." There's another place where Sexton gets inspired, and it's common to many songwriters I interview: behind the wheel. "After a few hours, the sound of the tires hitting the pavement puts me in this elevated state of consciousness," Sexton says. And yet "behind the wheel" doesn't have to be the car. He thought of the chorus for his song "Hold On" while on a bike ride with his son. He didn't have anything to record the chorus with, so he sang it to himself over and over until he got home--and sang it to the neighbor too just to make sure he didn't forget it.
Feb 25, 2022 · 37 min
Kerry McCoy & George Clarke of Deafheaven
For George Clarke and Kerry McCoy of Deafheaven, it’s not the ritual of the process itself that’s important as much as the preparation before the process. Both use a meditative and repetitive activity to prepare their mind: for McCoy it’s surfing, and for Clarke it’s often running or driving. Clarke writes the lyrics for Deafheaven, while McCoy writes much of the music. For both men, it’s all about putting themselves in the best possible headspace to make something. Surfing is a big part of McCoy’s creative process; he tries to go every morning because it’s one of the few times in his life where he can purely be in the moment. “No watch, no phone,” he says. More than a few Deafheaven riffs have emerged from his time on the water. Clarke says that a workout—either the gym or running—is a good way to prepare, as is the drive to the LA studio in all its glorious monotony. Both also cite their manager Cathy Pellow’s strong cold brew coffee as an important part of the ritual.
Feb 23, 2022 · 36 min
Walter Martin
Walter Martin’s most efficient writing process involves not sitting down with the intent to create. Also: being hungover helps. Like most songwriters tell me—Britt Daniel of Spoon was the last one—Martin does not sit down to write a song. “When that happens, it comes out the wrong way. I start to sound too smart or like poet,” he says. Instead, he’s writing all the time by constantly observing his surroundings. Song ideas come to Martin throughout the day, like when he’s mowing the lawn, and that’s when he whips out the phone to record those ideas. So when he finally sits down to write, there’s a wealth of source material. Martin does find one state of mind to be especially productive: hungover. More than a few songwriters have told me that having a hangover is a great state of mind to write in. Most tell me that it’s because the pain gives them a sense of serenity. But Martin’s theory is pretty simple: the residual alcohol gives his head just enough looseness to spur his creativity. Walter Martin’s latest album The Bear is out March 23. Listen to our interview below!
Feb 22, 2022 · 32 min
Morgan Wade
Morgan Wade gets more done by 8am than you do. "The more active I am, the more energetic I feel. And that's when I get my best ideas," she told me. If you want to schedule a meeting with Wade, do it early. I mean really early. She's usually up and ready to go by 5am. "I get emails from people who want to schedule meetings at 10am, and that is way too late for me. I'm thinking 8am is a much better time," she told me. In fact, on those rare occasions when she’s slept in until 8am, her day is ruined. (Trust me when I tell you how unique this is. To many songwriters I’ve interviewed, getting an early start to the day means 10am at best.) Wade's debut album Reckless is out now on Thirty Tiger Records.
Feb 21, 2022 · 39 min
Debbie Gibson
For the uninitiated: Debbie Gibson is still the youngest female to write, produce, and perform a #1 single, with "Foolish Beat" at age 17. I think I was just learning how to make toast at that age. She wrote all the songs on her debut album Out of the Blue—at age 16. The album had four singles in the US top five and sold more than five million albums. Gibson's second album Electric Youth was the #1 album in the US for five weeks. It contains three singles in the top 20, including the #1 song "Lost in Your Eyes." With that song, Gibson came home from school, started playing the piano, and the song just poured out in real time. "I wrote it in ten minutes and never changed a note," she told me. "I have no idea where it came from."
Feb 19, 2022 · 51 min
Julien Baker and Matt Nathanson
Some artists create because they like the process and the product. They like what they do and they’re good at it, whether they’re amateurs or professionals. But other artists create because they need to create. They have to write songs. It’s a self-actualizing and at times even a survival instinct, a primal drive. Because of this, external forces like love or relationships or world upheaval aren’t always drivers. These artists create because they must create. And at times, it may not even be enjoyable. This is what I thought about after my interview with Julien Baker and Matt Nathanson. It struck me in the metaphors they use to describe lyric writing: words like “shitting” and “puking,” images of violent expulsion that can also bring a tremendous sense of relief—and that are intertwined with instinct and drive. But there’s also genuine anxiety, and at times fear, attached to the songwriting process for both artists.
Feb 17, 2022 · 33 min
Michelle Zauner of Japanese Breakfast
No matter if she's writing great music or great books, Michelle Zauner goes by one credo: first thought, best thought. It's always garbage before the good stuff. "Raw source material is supposed to be crap,” Zauner says. “You have to allow yourself to be terrible," she told me. Zauner is the singer, songwriter, and founder of the band Japanese Breakfast. But she's also the author of the bestselling memoir Crying in H Mart, which ended up on many 2021 year-end "best of" lists and is also being made into a movie.
Feb 15, 2022 · 38 min
Britt Daniel of Spoon
Spoon's Britt Daniel finds that success as a songwriter comes when he's not trying to write songs. The less organization, the better. "When I try to write with intention, I come up empty," Daniel says. But if I'm not trying to do anything, I've been more successful. Trying to be organized can be a dead end." He told me that he likes to start writing without any direction. And Daniel often finds crowded bars and restaurants to be inspiring. Not only does he like the energy of the crowds, but he also uses what he hears and sees as source material. So if you happen to spot Daniel in a bar and he's scribbling away in a notebook, the man may be writing the next Spoon record!
Feb 13, 2022 · 44 min
Lauren Mayberry of CHVRCHES
Lauren Mayberry of Chvrches has an impressively organized songwriting process that involves spreadsheets, Pinterest boards, and a jar full of paper. For Mayberry, that organization involves writing every day. She has the jar to show for it, a jar full of cut out words and phrases that she collects for inspiration or future lyrical Ideas. She also keeps notebooks. "Writing is very therapeutic for me," Mayberry told me. Mayberry has a keen and precise take on her creative process. She doesn't write much on tour. "Sad, soft, worried me doesn't go on tour, but she's the one who writes better," Mayberry says. When she does write, it often helps to be doing something else, like riding public transportation, driving, and chopping vegetables. Yes, chopping vegetables. "It helps when the conscious brain and subconscious brain are doing different things. The hubbub is meditative," explains Mayberry. "The conscious mind checks out so that the subconscious can do the work." Mayberry's creative process is impressively organized. It involves spreadsheets organized by tabs with themes like horror, anger, and sadness. She's a big fan of Post-It Notes, and she loves hotel pens. Pinterest mood boards filled with images help her when she's stuck.
Feb 11, 2022 · 30 min
Mia Berrin of Pom Pom Squad
For Mia Berrin of Pom Pom Squad, how a song looks is as important as how it sounds. And her latest album Death of a Cheerleader looks and sounds red. Pom Pom Squad’s video for “Head Cheerleader” is fantastic. (The song itself is amazing and one of my favorites of 2021.) It’s rife with colors, images, and symbols. But what Berrin did with the video is not surprising if you know her background: she first moved to New York to study acting at NYU. And while the video is awash in vivid colors, red stands out. That color played a big part of the songwriting process for Death of a Cheerleader. In fact, she surrounded herself with it during recording, “Lots of red velvet and red vinyl. I had red curtains and wore red gloves,” Berrin says. It was important for her to carve out a physical space during writing that “looked like the internal space of the record. And red is what I wanted the world of the record to look like.” Berrin cites John Waters and David Lynch as influences in the making of her videos, which she says are heavily stylized representations of the world.
Feb 10, 2022 · 36 min
Yola
For Yola, songwriting is all about the colliculus. And sometimes a good vacuum. There’s a common motion many songwriters make when telling me where their songs come from: they start grasping in the air, mere conduits pulling songs out of the ether. But if you ask Yola, she’d probably tap her head. “I have an obsessive neurological approach to songwriting,” she told me. The most important part of Yola’s process is her colliculus, a midbrain region. And that’s why this interview was part songwriting, part science lesson. “I farm out my work to my colliculi. It’s the part of the brain that takes things in from the periphery, like that billboard that you barely notice as you zoom by,” she said. Yola doesn’t want her songwriting process to be too analytical. “If I muscle something with my conscious mind, I might fabricate something based on issues I’m dealing with at the times," she told me. It’s why so many song ideas come to her when she’s doing something mundane like driving or vacuuming: she’s not thinking about songwriting. “It’s a state of being unconscious but extremely aware,” she said. Yola has been nominated for two GRAMMYs this year: one for Best Americana album (Stand for Myself) and the other for Best American Roots Song (“Diamond Studded Shoes.”)
Feb 9, 2022 · 49 min
Anais Mitchell and Charlotte Cornfield
Artists are always searching for the ideal creative state, that perfect time when the songs effortlessly flow. With both Anaïs Mitchell and Charlotte Cornfield, that involves, well, not really being aware of when they’re in that ideal state. For Mitchell, it involves accessing the subconscious in dreams. If she’s lucky, a fellow songwriter might appear in those dreams to give her counsel, like David Rawlings once did. And for Cornfield, that brief moment right before sleep, when she’s just about to doze off, is an especially fertile time. Mitchell and Cornfield love a good deadline. Their songwriting processes involve structure and discipline, not just sleeping and dreaming. “I'm a big fan of having a routine and showing up for it, even if nothing happens,” Mitchell told me. And they also find artistic inspiration in blank email messages (Mitchell), skateboards (Cornfield), door panels (Mitchell), and black ink (both). In fact, Mitchell is so versed in door panels that she actually told Cornfield and me what kind of door panels we have after noticing them in our interview. In case you were wondering how I picked Mitchell and Cornfield as an interview pair, here’s my highly scientific process. I follow two artists on Twitter, then from that I see if they follow each other. If they do, then it’s match. Turns out that Mitchell and Cornfield have known each other for over ten years, so their familiarity made this a very fun conversation. Enjoy!
Feb 8, 2022 · 35 min
Keb' Mo'
“As a songwriter, my job is to figure out how to draw some optimism out of any situation.” Five-time GRAMMY winner Keb’ Mo’ draws that optimism from the “big bubbling river” of creativity. We can all use a little Keb’ Mo’ in our lives. As the world burns, Kevin Moore (aka Keb’ Mo’) sees cause for optimism everywhere—even in his own home, where he gets joy from mundane household chores that I certainly detest. While I may recoil at the sight of a big pile of laundry, Moore loves it: he finds comfort in folding clothes and even ironing! It’s not a direct part of his songwriting process. Instead, the meditative nature of the act calms him and prepares him to sit down and write. And when Moore starts to write, he’s pretty confident that the songs will come. “Creativity is like a big, bubbling river. It’s there. You just have to plug into it,” he told me. “I feel like I’m swimming in a pool of creativity.” Would that we were all this optimistic! Moore’s ideal time to write is between noon and 6pm, after he’s been to the gym. He likes to write lyrics with a pencil and notepad (a legal pad if possible; he hates paper with rings on the side). He sits on the couch with his guitar, turns on Netflix, and plays around until he hears something he likes. The latest album by Keb’ Mo’ is Good to Be.