Some Goodness

Episode 60: Google Is Being Totally Weird - SEO, AEO/GEO, and the AI-First Shift

Host Richard Ellis interviews Michael Epps Utley of GoEpps about Google’s unusual transition as AI and LLMs reshape discovery. Utley argues AI may be a “Google killer,” comparing Google’s current position to past platform shifts, and says Google is pushing Gemini into prime search real estate while negotiating the differences between search and AI. For businesses, he notes SEO rankings still matter but overall organic traffic is often down while remaining traffic is more valuable; informational content is increasingly answered by engines without site visits, making unique content and commercial-intent queries more important. He emphasizes reputation as central across platforms, with GEO/AEO relying more on what others say through reviews and offsite signals, and recommends CEOs “Google” and also check themselves in tools like ChatGPT and Grok. He also discusses adding schema so bots can read offers and events, noting bots now generate over half of internet sessions. Soundbites "SEO was about what we say about ourselves. GEO and AEO are what other people say about us." "Companies are getting less traffic from SEO, but the traffic that comes in is more valuable." "You can't tell you're in the water when you're a fish, and right now we're all equating Google with the internet, and that's just not the way it's gonna play out." "They're eating a lot of their brand recognition value to buy the data they need to make Gemini usable, so they're learning at the expense of the user base." "If you've had a content strategy that was about more is better, that's not the case anymore. Unique is better." "There's no replacing a good reputation. That just became the central most important thing across all these platforms." "People need to Google themselves more, but they gotta start Groking themselves too." "A week or a few weeks ago, bots were the biggest user of the internet for the first time. More than 50%." It's okay, y'all. We're all still people. Let's stay human." Michael's business, GoEpps: https://www.goepps.com/ Richard’s business, Revenue Innovations: https://www.revenueinnovations.com

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Episode 59: The Forensics of a Stall

Host Richard Ellis interviews Darin Archer about why companies that reach $10–$30M can stall and how leaders should diagnose it. Darin stresses that while data and KPIs matter, they can mislead without context, so he triangulates insights from customers, partners, and especially junior reps who offer candid, unfiltered feedback. He looks for pipeline stage velocity anomalies and early- vs late-stage closed-loss patterns to pinpoint go-to-market, pricing, enablement, or product-market-fit issues, then “double-clicks” with qualitative input and competitive intelligence. Darin highlights modern call-recording/transcription and sentiment tools to test hypotheses like pricing objections at scale. He recommends engaging external experts when problems are suspected but unproven or when performance has materially deteriorated, and advises new leaders to avoid “burning the calendar” on tactics and focus on strategic alignment while bringing in execution horsepower. Soundbites "You had a great sales team and you didn't feed them right. The whole supply chain was broken." "That list we got trained on for objection handling? None of those responses land. I tried it. Nothing lands." "Senior leaders have to defend so much... you won't get that from a senior leader." "You smell the smoke, but you don't see the smoke. And you definitely don't know if there's a fire." "Don't burn the calendar. Every month you're not firing on all cylinders, you lose radical traction." "It's a farce if you think you can do it yourself." "When your prospect or your former customer takes a call from a third party, they're much more honest." "That first wave of CRM was a digital notebook... that's a data set we've got to mine a lot more." "Most enablement teams aren't staffed with that forensic scientist mindset." "Respect the trade. You're asking these folks to do extraordinary things." Darin's website: https://www.darinarcher.com Richard’s business, Revenue Innovations: https://www.revenueinnovations.com

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Episode 58: Keep Your Knees Bent - What Getting Found Looks Like When AI Answers First

Host Richard Ellis discusses claims from CEOs that “old SEO is dead” and interviews Michael Epps Utley, founder/CEO of GoEpps, who argues “SEO is dead, long live SEO,” with AEO (answer engine optimization) and GEO (generative engine optimization) becoming additions under the SEO umbrella. Utley distinguishes SEO as ranking in search, AEO as ranking in answers, and GEO as ranking in generated answers and sources, noting AI is additive to search and is changing website content toward novel questions and authoritative sourcing (e.g., data journalism). He describes GoEpps’ new AEO product that uses 180 external data points, aggregated into algorithms and metrics, to score brands and competitors from “how the internet sees” them. Key takeaways: stay broad and agile (“keep your knees bent”), expect to buy specialized solutions rather than build, avoid overreliance on new or incomplete metrics, and recognize marketing can’t mask poor operations as reputation becomes central. Soundbites "SEO is for ranking in search, AEO is for ranking in answers, and GEO is for ranking in generated answers, meaning their sources." "We're not just thinking about keywords and how to be found for people using a search engine. We're also thinking, what do we bring that's new that answers a question nobody else is answering?" "This is like lava in a volcano in Hawaii. It's coming down the mountainside and building new islands." "People were always bouncing around to three or four places to validate something. Now we're seeing additional real estate be built for those interactions." "The pace of change is more radical than people are giving it credit for, and it's going to be more the same than people realize." "We can't live in what I call Pax Googliana, this era of peace where Google was the homepage of the internet. ChatGPT is arguably the homepage of the internet for a lot of people now. So is Grok." "About 90% of companies and agencies are leaning to buy solutions to implement AI rather than build." "In our family we have a saying: keep your knees bent. On boat day, if you're going to walk while the boat's moving, keep your knees bent. This is a keep your knees bent time." "Don't have a quarterly meeting where you commit super hard to one new thing on ChatGPT, because they may flip it tomorrow." "AI is too big a topic for a marketing coordinator, a marketing manager, and frankly a marketing director. Pushing it to one team member to figure out and bring back isn't good leadership." "Marketing can't fix bad operations going forward. In the past marketing could shore up a delivery problem by keeping the inbox full of opportunities. Now reputation is absolutely front and center." "Watch out for any one number that's a brand new metric that didn't exist six months ago, because that stuff's all just forming up right now." "Adaptability and flexibility is just part of the human animal. I really believe the next generation is going to do some amazing stuff." Michael's business, GoEpps: https://www.goepps.com/ Richard’s business, Revenue Innovations: https://www.revenueinnovations.com

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Episode 57: It's Simple, It's Just Not Easy - Integrating Two Revenue Teams

In this episode of Some Goodness, host Richard Ellis welcomes Michael Stahl, CEO of Wombat Data, to discuss why acquisitions often destroy value due to poor execution in the six to 18 months after close. Stahl explains why integration should be treated as an ongoing function that connects the operating model with M&A strategy, especially to build scalable revenue operations and link organic and inorganic growth. He describes integration as a phased, long-tail process with feedback loops to test underwriting theses and refine ideal target profiles, emphasizing data and CRM/system integration as prerequisites for collaboration. The conversation covers go-to-market alignment issues such as coverage strategy, overlays, comp models, minimizing disruption, and encouraging collaboration, plus cultural due diligence focused on day-to-day management rigor and data-driven practices. Soundbites "There's no better way to identify areas that need improvement in a business than trying to explain to a company you buy how your business works." "You have to be able to clearly articulate how you run your business, how you run your sales motions, to be able to tell somebody else how to fold into it." "When we found it harder to explain or more difficult for a team to fold into, that's usually where we have to pay attention." "What happens in the corp dev decks and with the advisors doesn't always translate post close." "It's really important to acknowledge that it's a phased plan, that it also will feel a little awkward or clumsy at times as we bring two teams together." "It's not just change on the part of the target. It also requires change on the part of the buyer and the buyer's teams, because now we're bringing new people into the conversation." "We always wanted to try to err on the side of making decisions that were going to encourage collaboration rather than sort of be myopic and save in the short term." "A lot of the culture that I wanted to look at, particularly in a target, was how did they manage day to day. And was the way that we manage as a buyer going to be a culture shock for them?" "Is the juice worth the squeeze here? Are we spending the right time on the deals that create the most value and align with the strategy of the company?" "There's a phrase that I like. It sounds simple. It's just not easy." "That's how I define commitment with my team: awareness and intention. You have to be aware of what's going well, what's not, and then make intentional decisions about what to reinforce and where to course correct." "The data became the equalizer or the mediator." Michael's business, Wombat Data: https://wombatdata.com Richard’s business, Revenue Innovations: https://www.revenueinnovations.com

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Episode 56: The Relationship Layer - Spotting the Next Opportunity Before You Get Commoditized

Host Richard Ellis interviews Cody Lee, founder of Food Truck Club, a two-sided marketplace that makes booking food trucks for events fast and reliable across markets including Texas, Chicago, and Philadelphia; Cody explains how he “operationalized” an informal trusted intermediary in the food-truck ecosystem, why marketplaces require years to build trust on both sides, and how founder-level accountability restores loyalty. He shares an unconventional Amazon prospecting story, discusses market selection via demand/supply and culture, and closes with guidance that “sales is king” and trust must closely follow. Soundbites "You can build all the AI agents you want, we can have all the cool gadgets and CRMs out there, but you cannot replace trust." "Trust is built even faster when mistakes happen and get corrected than just doing what you should be doing." "Sales is king and trust is queen." "Businesses typically take a few years to get off the ground, but marketplaces take on average seven years to be successful. Because you're trying to really build that trust." "We say these names like Amazon or PepsiCo and we're trying to sell into these big names. But really it's Robert. It's Anne. There's somebody in there that just happens to work there that's a human. Even though they might have Deloitte in their email, it doesn't mean that they're anybody." "I made an Amazon hat. You can buy the Amazon vests on amazon.com. I dressed like an Amazon employee, and I just walked in and nobody asked any questions... And 80% of the time I made the sale." "Nobody is saying, 'Hey, my boss brought in pizza today' for the 100th time. Nobody's standing in front of the lunch room bragging in a selfie about the spread of Olive Garden in front of them. But everybody is posting a selfie in front of the food truck." "The problems are there, but we just become sort of blind to it... The problem and the solution were already existing the whole time. We just operationalized it and pushed it." "You just don't have people anymore visiting. You don't have people writing handwritten letters anymore. It sounds so small and basic that it seems like it wouldn't work, but it's the opposite." "I see a lot of leaders get stuck in the thick of thin things, and really get into the minutia of something that's good, not great." Cody’s business, Food Truck Club: https://app.foodtruckclub.com Richard’s business, Revenue Innovations: https://www.revenueinnovations.com

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Episode 55: Why Leaders Still Can't Get the Answers They Need

Host Richard Ellis interviews Michael Stahl, CEO and founder of Wombat Data, about why executives still struggle to get real answers from data despite modern dashboards, data lakes, and BI tools. Stahl describes persistent issues across industries: siloed enterprise systems, closed or monetized APIs, difficult and costly integration, and the need to incorporate external datasets (e.g., CMS, demographic, geospatial) that are hard to organize and keep current. He explains the “streetlight effect,” where teams analyze only easily accessible data, and shares a healthcare example where layering drive-time and geospatial data helped explain patient no-shows. Stahl says new AI capabilities can automate access and integration without migrations, keeping data live and enabling leaders to focus on better questions, a clear data strategy, and a few vital business signals rather than KPI proliferation. Soundbites "Every executive has dashboards. Almost none have answers." "The parable is if somebody loses their keys, they actually look where the streetlight shines, because that's where the light is. But even if their keys may not be there, they look where they have the most ready access and visibility, even if that's not necessarily the best place to find good answers." "It's hard to know what you don't know." "You've got a very expensive Ferrari that's in the garage or just going to collect groceries, and we're not getting the highest and best use out of it." "Most people ready, fire, aim, and what you're asking them to do is ready, aim, fire." "We take the how off the table for you, and you can just focus on the why." "One data point may be interesting, but is oftentimes not useful. It's the collection of data points that actually helps us understand relationships." "What are the fewest variables that have the biggest impact and produce the clearest signal of success, health, and function in the team?" "KPI proliferation or dashboard proliferation actually creates more confusion than clarity." "If you dig and come to a point where your business, your team doesn't have the data it needs, it's probably out there, and people can help you find it, and you can access it." Michael's business, Wombat Data: https://wombatdata.com Richard’s business, Revenue Innovations: https://www.revenueinnovations.com

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Episode 54: Buyers Don't Want Reps. AI Companies Are Hiring Hundreds.

Host Richard Ellis and guest Braydan Young (co-founder of Slash Experts, formerly of Sendoso) discuss why B2B buying signals look contradictory (Forrester’s view that ~90% of executives want to buy without talking to sales versus AI-native firms hiring SDRs) and what this means for sellers and leaders. They argue buyers increasingly research via reviews, backchannels, and pilots, and mainly avoid unhelpful reps. AI and avatars can compress the traditional SDR/AE/SE chain so one technical AE can do more, shifting roles toward technical SDRs and go-to-market engineers. They predict consolidation of point tools into all-in-one platforms while CRMs persist due to security and reliability. Practical advice includes partnerships (especially with consultants/agencies), in-person events, ignoring LinkedIn noise, and staying close to customers; they close by sharing personal fitness goals. Soundbites "Every day there's a new B2B AI tool that someone vibe coded or created. It's amazing how fast the space is moving." "They bought you and all your competition, and they're testing all of you and seeing which one sticks. And then at the end of that pilot phase, they leave you." "I think the line's 10 grand. If it's over 10 grand, you need a human in the loop." "It's not that they don't wanna talk to a rep, it's that they don't wanna talk to a bad rep." (Richard, paraphrasing the buyer shift) "You've talked to six people, and the deal size is 24K. That's too many. Your AE, your SDR, and your SE needs to be one person." "I think the traditional SDR will go away. But the more technical SDR will be a new job that folks will have." "If you have your own CRM that you built with AI and it goes down, it's on you. That's why I don't think it's gonna happen anytime soon." "Selling through consultants and agencies is the best, 'cause they are far more trusted than your sales team. They talk about you on a phone call you're not on." "Try to do something crazy that's athletic at least once a year. When you're healthy and post-workout, I think way clearer, and that'll only help the company grow faster." Braydan's business, Slash Experts: https://slashexperts.com/ Richard's business, Revenue Innovations: https://www.revenueinnovations.com/

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Episode 53: Activity Data Over Opinion Data

Host Richard Ellis interviews Jack Siney, co-founder of Front Race, on why AI needs activity/interaction data instead of biased “opinion” data entered by reps, and how rigid, linear CRM workflows miss the nonlinear reality and micro-details of sales, including timing between actions. Jack warns that automating only documented steps can fail because top performers execute additional undocumented steps, and that LLMs can mis-join data and hallucinate without hard metrics. He recommends leaders: consolidate and standardize company data, map the real end-to-end process (including losses), and use a measurement layer to benchmark and evaluate changing AI tools. Soundbites "All the LLMs are using the same open data set. The magic is in your data. You have the answers. If you have a couple of years of legacy data, you've had some success, you've had some failures. The magic is in that data: uncovering what works and what doesn't." "We've been measuring metrics for four decades that have no direct correlation to whether we hit the goal." "We get rid of our SDRs to automate 20 steps. But the SDRs are actually doing 32 steps. We train the agent on 20 because we don't even know the other 12 exist. Then we wonder why the pilot failed." "The magic's in the micro details. Everyone knows the big things: the culture, the pitch, the pricing, the demo. That's not what separates your best reps from your average ones. It's 20 little things." "As soon as you rely on the sales rep to put the data in, we're in trouble. Their job depends on having a good pipeline. They're biased. Garbage in, garbage out." "Automate the interactions and you get what really happened. It's not someone's opinion." "Some of the magic is the time in between the steps. Letting it breathe. I don't know a system out there that tracks the time between each call." Jack's business, Front Race: https://www.frontrace.com/ Richard's business, Revenue Innovations: https://www.revenueinnovations.com/

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Episode 52: Relationship Capital: The Asset Most Leaders Underuse

The episode argues that relational capital is a strategic resource, citing a 2026 Forbes Human Resources Council article linking trust-based networks to stronger collaboration, faster decisions, and resilient teams. Host Richard Ellis interviews Eddy Arriola, founder of Apollo Bank (2009) and former chairman/CEO until its 2022 acquisition by Seacoast Bank, now a Seacoast board director and author of It’s All About Relationships. Arriola explains his realization that career successes and failures often hinged on relationships, distinguishes true relationship-building from mere charm, and emphasizes meeting people where they are by understanding their pressures and incentives. He introduces his CARPE framework (“seize the relationship”), highlighting “connect” and “prioritization,” including avoiding comfort-zone conversations. Link to Eddy’s book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GP9TPQ1Y?tag=scribemedia0a-20&th=1&psc=1&geniuslink=true Soundbites "It's all about relationships." (the book title, and the line "that's resonated with people because so many of us have used that a zillion times") "I really got things done through people... when I started to reflect even on the things that didn't go right in my life... it was because I didn't have the right relationships. I didn't have someone to help me, someone to fall back on." "It's usually the people that really don't understand sales and marketing that say, 'Oh, that's the relationship guy.'" "People that are really good at relationships just so happen to be really good with people. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they're good with all people." "Carpe diem, seize the day, and I'm like, 'Seize the relationship.'" "All your competitors have really, really, really good products... but it's really about a relationship that you build around." "All sales is a process. One step logically follows another, and relationship building is very similar." "You will go to your comfort zone. You will go to the easier conversations or the more fun relationships, and you'll be missing out on others." "The best thing you can do is be a good listener and a good student and follow up." "Dig a little deeper... just scratch, keep digging a little deeper and you're gonna get the right information." "What relationships aren't serving you right now? What are just taking up too much of your time?" "You are where you are because someone else helped pave the way."

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Episode 51: Your Customer Is the Best Salesperson You’re Not Using

Host Richard Ellis interviews Braydan Young, co-founder of Slash Experts and former Sendoso co-founder, about why most B2B companies rely on the same few reference customers late in deals and lack systems to operationalize social proof. Braden explains how social proof extends beyond reference calls to logos, case studies, reviews, testimonials, and especially short video testimonials, and argues prospects often complete much of the buying journey before talking to sales. Slash Experts addresses the “last-minute scramble” by letting prospects book calls with pre-vetted customers via expert pages, using AI to recommend the best match, automate follow-ups, and nudge buyers with relevant proof while capturing transcripts of customer language. Braydan shares practical CRO steps: test your own reference process, track and thank reference customers, and introduce customer conversations earlier to accelerate stalled deals. Soundbites "80% of the deal cycle is done by the time they're actually hopping on the phone with sales." "Everyone has the same 40, 50 logos on their site. How's everybody working with the exact same companies?" "Typically it's a scramble at the end. It's, 'Who's the fastest person I can get on the phone so they can check that box?'" "You've gone from trying to sell a product to being consultative. All you're trying to do is empower your champion to get the deal done." "Social proof is just making someone not feel alone for taking a risk on buying your service." — Braydan Young "The way our customer was talking to a prospect about how they used our system was totally different than the way we talked about it. That's the conversation that is gold." "If you're a CRO, try to get a reference today for your own company. Go through the process you gave to sales and see what that's like." “There's not a lot of separation between work and life anymore. When it's blended well, that's the company everyone wants to work for." Braydan's business, Slash Experts: https://slashexperts.com/ Richard's business, Revenue Innovations: https://www.revenueinnovations.com/

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Episode 50: The AI Truths Sales Leaders Are Avoiding

This episode discusses why AI investment is outpacing real business impact, noting low AI production adoption among US firms, limited use cases reaching full production, and many initiatives being abandoned in 2025. Host Richard Ellis interviews Jack Siney, co-founder of FrontRace, about his white paper on “15 AI truths” sales leaders will face, arguing most companies are experimenting without executing with precision. Siney says sales teams have spent decades optimizing the wrong metrics (calls, emails, pipeline) and remain poor at forecasting and replicating top-performer behavior. He argues AI’s value is measuring previously unmeasurable “20 small things” behind 3X performers, delivering clearer “signals” like Moneyball analytics. Key prerequisites are consolidating, normalizing, and cleaning company data and uncovering actual workflow behaviors, enabling better forecasting and guidance while preserving human roles in higher-value, complex sales. Soundbites / Memorable Quotes: "If you're on social media, you'd swear every company is fully AI-enabled, firing their entire staff, making it all AI. The real world at a ground level is pretty significantly different." "We're no better today, four decades in, hundreds of millions if not trillions of dollars invested in all of these sales platforms. Companies hitting forecasts? We're worse at forecasting, shockingly, with all the tools we have today." "You have two reps, they have the same metrics, same calls, same outreach, same pipeline, and one is outperforming the other by 3X. When the CEO asks why, the head of sales simply makes something up." "The difference between these two people are 20 little things. It's not the big things. Everyone knows the pricing. Everyone knows the FAQs. Everyone knows how to do the demo. That is not it." "When you ask that person to train the rest of the team, it's like Michael Jordan trying to teach basketball. They just know they do it." "Everything we're doing today in the AI world is gonna look childish five years from now. We're still in the AOL dial-up stage." "If you take AI and you put it on a crappy data set, AI's already gonna have some hallucinations to it, but if the data's not right, you're gonna come out with bad conclusions and you're gonna get fired." "We've relied on the sales rep, who's very biased, to manage their own pipeline, put in the probability it's gonna close, the amount, and when. Are you kidding me?" "In Moneyball, the big shift was we're no longer buying players, we're buying runs. The same thing in sales: who cares how it gets closed? Do they close it?" "The more money a client's spending, the safer your job is. When rubber hits the road, they want someone to talk to." Jack's business, Front Race: https://www.frontrace.com/ Richard's business, Revenue Innovations: https://www.revenueinnovations.com/

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Episode 49: AI Hype, Product Complexity, and Trust in Enterprise Software

In this episode, host Richard Ellis discusses how enterprise software companies face pressure from boards and markets to demonstrate AI progress, creating risks of overpromising, unnecessary product narratives, and eroding customer trust. Guest Rob Huffstedtler, Global Head of Pre-Sales Operations at Sitecore, describes varied customer readiness for AI and notes research suggesting AI more often automates tasks than eliminates entire jobs, enabling workflow redesign while preserving human judgment. They explore AI’s impact on RFP responses, where automation can improve customization but still requires locked-down, contextual answers and stronger storytelling than CRM data typically captures. The conversation also covers how “show up and throw up” demos and excessive feature focus create perceived complexity and pricing objections, the value of confidently saying “yes” or “no,” and challenges in migrating installed-base customers through platform shifts without forcing RFPs. They conclude with leadership guidance on proactive involvement, coaching, and avoiding late-stage “super seller” interventions. Soundbites “When companies over promise, force customers toward a future they didn’t ask for, or drag buyers through sprawling product narratives they don’t need, trust starts to erode.” “AI may speed things up, but it does not remove the need for discipline, honest positioning, and respect for the installed base.” “There are very few jobs where even in a fully agentic flow, you can eliminate the whole job. What it’s doing instead is simplifying or eliminating particular tasks of a job.” “There’s really an opportunity to rethink workflows and business processes and re engineer them to remove the slow friction parts.” “Some of the best RFPs are those that tell a story and they reiterate why do something different in the first place and why now and why with you.” “SAEs need to learn that yes is a full sentence.” “You coach rather than swooping in to save the day.”

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Episode 48: The Technical Seller’s New Role

The episode argues that B2B sales teams must stop treating solution engineers (SEs) as downstream demo support because buyers can self-educate and need help understanding what matters, quantifying value, and picturing success through storytelling, qualification, and commercial judgment earlier in deals. Host Richard Ellis discusses with Rob Huffstedtler, Global Head of Pre-Sales at Sitecore, why SEs should be experts on buyers and their industries, leverage their trusted status to influence pipeline generation (especially in install-base motions), and coordinate intentionally with AEs through preparation, listening, and discovery to avoid overemphasizing features. They cover hiring and onboarding gaps that leave SEs underdeveloped in sales skills, missed opportunities in customer storytelling, and how AI tools can speed research and call review but risk wordiness, fake empathy, and overreliance without human judgment and trust-building. They also address tight AE-SE coupling through deal stages, empowering internal champions, and effective handoffs to services for implementations requiring customization. Soundbites 1. “The SE really needs to be as much of an expert on the buyer, that individual buyer, as well as generically the industry and the role as they are on their product.” 2. “At the end of the day, what they’re doing is helping the buyer through the buyer’s buying process.” 3. “Not being perceived as a seller becomes a superpower in sales.” 4. “The customer tends to inherently trust the SE more than they trust the account executive.” 5. “Listening is key, right? You learn a lot more when you have your mouth closed and your ears open.” 6. “You’ve got to learn to ask good, engaging questions and sit and give the customer time to think rather than pushing them forward and suggesting an answer for them.” 7. “There’s a little bit of a desire to appear smart rather than to make the customer the star.” 8. “If the AE and the SE, if they’re not having a good conversation before every customer conversation where they’re anticipating what the customer wants to get out of it and what they want to get out of it, it very easily turns into, let’s talk about all of our favorite features.” 9. “Some of the value is the process of building that summary rather than having the summary.” 10. “The biggest misconception I’ve seen is that there’s a path to getting to the unknown unknowns.”

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Episode 47: What the Board Really Wants to Hear

FROM THE ARCHIVES: This is one of our favorite past episodes. Host Richard welcomes multi-time CXO Tracy Mustachio to discuss why navigating a first board meeting matters, emphasizing first impressions, confidence, and setting a reporting roadmap. Tracy advises tailoring to the board’s perspective by researching members, reviewing past board decks, and speaking in business outcomes rather than vanity marketing metrics, noting few directors have operational marketing experience though many have strong opinions. She recommends structuring updates with a “from-to” slide (current state to north star), plus concise highlights and lowlights tied to pipeline and revenue, keeping details in back-pocket slides or a cheat sheet for deep questions. Tracy shares cautionary stories about being unprepared and stresses cross-functional alignment through collaborative drafting, practice sessions, and co-presenting with peers. She also recommends learning board best practices via training and the HBR book Boards That Lead. Chapters 00:00 Boardroom Stakes 00:46 Why First Meetings Matter 01:50 Speak Board Language 02:40 Research the Directors 03:57 Salesforce Story Lesson 05:41 CMO Metric Balance 07:09 From To Framework 09:28 Results Over Activities 10:35 Back Pocket Prep 11:29 Presentation Horror Story 12:26 Align With Sales 13:30 Thrown Into the Fire 16:14 Board Training Resources 17:40 Final Book Recommendation 18:44 Wrap and Subscribe Keywords board meetings, board presentation, first board meeting, boardroom communication, executive leadership, C-level leadership, CMO, chief product officer, board reporting, first impressions, business metrics, business value, vanity metrics, marketing metrics, board expectations, audience awareness, board member perspectives, presentation structure, from-to slide, change agenda, highlights and lowlights, business goals, pipeline, revenue, customer journey, full funnel, back pocket slide, cheat sheet, executive preparation, peer collaboration, CEO, CSO, sales alignment, product marketing sales alignment, practice sessions, board questions, presentation detail, board governance, fiduciary role, executive coaching, board training, Boards That Lead, Ryan Holiday, The Obstacle Is the Way Soundbites “Your first board meeting sets the first impression and the roadmap for how you’ll report going forward.” “The board is interested in business metrics and business value, not vanity marketing metrics.” “Put yourself in their shoes and speak in their language.” “Know the audience, know the perspective they’re coming from, and speak to those perspectives.” “What the board needs to understand is how what you’re doing relates to the overall business goals.” “Start with a clear from-to slide: here’s where we are today, here’s what we’re moving toward.” “Use highlights and lowlights, but stay high level and succinct unless they ask for detail.” “Focus on results, not all the activities you used to get there.” “Keep a back pocket slide or cheat sheet beside you for the board member who wants to dig into the numbers.” “Collaborate hard with your peers before the meeting because you do not want misalignment in front of the board.”

Episode 46: When AI Meets Real Life Sales

Host Richard Ellis discusses with David Howerton, CEO and founder of VendoIQ, how AI is rapidly flooding sales organizations under board and executive pressure, often driving hurried, uncoordinated adoption that doesn’t ladder up to strategy. They argue AI amplifies existing problems (broken processes, unclear ICPs, weak handoffs, and poor CRM data) rather than fixing them, leading to noise and pipeline issues. The conversation focuses on real field sales work and why productivity breaks down due to context switching and delayed documentation, causing “memory decay” and unreliable forecasting. They highlight opportunities for AI to reduce non-selling tasks by capturing in-person insights quickly and triggering workflows, especially through voice interfaces that meet sellers where they are, turning AI into an assistant that not only records notes but also schedules meetings, drafts emails, and supports faster, more accurate execution. Chapters 00:00 AI Hype Meets Reality 01:46 Boardroom Pressure to Adopt 04:20 AI Needs Strategy and Governance 06:13 Fix Processes and Data First 10:23 In-Person Selling Advantage 13:33 Context Switching Kills CRM 17:33 Voice Interface for Field Notes 23:50 From Notes to Automated Actions 26:03 Leadership Advice to Lean In 28:08 Personal Goodness and Wrap-Up Key Words AI strategy, revenue strategy, sales strategy, go to market strategy, go to market teams, revenue engine, AI adoption, AI governance, AI alignment, business outcomes, workflows, business processes, CRM data, stale CRM data, data quality, source of truth, field sales, field productivity, seller productivity, field marketing, in person selling, human interaction, trust, authenticity, relationship building, context switching, memory decay, meeting notes, conversational intelligence, voice interface, voice input, sales workflows, administrative burden, non selling activities, sales efficiency, sales effectiveness, forecasting, resource allocation, action loops, proactive workflows, AI assistant, digital interactions, customer insights, trade shows, account development, upselling, cross selling, ICP, pipeline, sales leadership, revenue leadership, go to market execution, seller workflows, CRM adoption, real time capture, human and AI interaction Sound Bites “Your organization is already doing stuff with AI in different departments, and that’s all well and good, but it’s not concentrated and it’s very likely not rolling up to a strategy.” “We all know that CRM data is stale. It’s outdated. We’re now in an era where both in the virtual meeting world and in real life, we can fix that.” “Human interaction becomes scarcity. So when you do have an in person interaction, the value is disproportionate.” David's business, VendoIQ: https://www.vendoiq.com/ Richard's business, Revenue Innovations: https://www.revenueinnovations.com/

Episode 45: MarTech in the Age of AI

Most B2B marketing teams are sitting on a bloated tech stack they can't justify. Tools bought to fix strategy problems. Duplicate capabilities nobody audited. AI features bolted onto legacy products that were already underperforming. Jessica Fewless has seen it from the inside. As an early architect of account-based marketing and now as a partner at Inverter, she's helped operators untangle exactly this mess. In this conversation with host Richard Ellis, she gets specific about what separates teams that get ROI from their MarTech from teams that just keep buying. How to evaluate tools when AI is making everything obsolete in 18 months. Why intent signals fail when you treat them like a list. What "AI-readable content" actually means before your competitors figure it out. And why the smartest move right now might be short contracts and point solutions you can swap out. Chapters 00:00 MarTech Meets AI 02:13 Auditing Bloated Stacks 04:51 Use Cases And Workflows 06:53 Platforms Versus Point Tools 10:00 Core Stack Must Haves 12:25 AI Budget Pressure Reality 16:17 Avoid Long Term Bets 18:16 Measure ROI And Governance 19:42 Intent Signals In Context 22:12 SEO In The AI Era 25:09 Cut Waste Do More 25:53 Some Goodness And Wrap Keywords MarTech, marketing technology, marketing tech stack, tech stack audit, vendor sprawl, tool duplication, shiny new tools, strategy gaps, plugging holes with tech, lead quality, demand generation, use case, workflows, process design, governance, rules of the road, integrations, architecture, ROI, CFO scrutiny, budget pressure, boards, headcount reduction, scaling the wrong thinking, AI in MarTech, AI layering, AI native tools, legacy platforms, point solutions, best in class, comprehensive platforms, control, customization, Zapier, stitching tools together, CRM, Salesforce, data management, data quality, email marketing, database, webinar tools, website personalization, account based marketing, ABM, retention risk, positioning, messaging, stickiness, contracts, short term agreements, renewal evaluation, customer success manager, discrete metrics, intent signals, funnel stage, AI research tools, intent in context, website activity, buyer signals, static nurture, signal based nurture, always on strategy, personalization, orchestration, findability, SEO, GEO, AEO, AI indexing, Reddit influence, PR, authority building, top 10 lists, scannable landing pages, tech stack waste, consolidation, creativity, work life boundary Soundbites "...beyond having a way to email your database and having your database, those are the two fundamentals. I kind of feel like everything's up for grabs after that.” "...go into it knowing that that technology might not be relevant three years from now and be okay with that. So don't sign a five-year contract, not that anybody, anybody signs five-year contracts. I wouldn't sign more than a one or two-year contract.” “There should never be a static nurture. There should only be a reaction to signals moving forward.” “The average tech stack inside of a company is mind boggling.” “People were plugging holes in their strategy with technology.” “CFOs and boards and CEOs are saying, AI allows you to do more, so go do more with AI, and I’m going to shrink your tech budget as a result.” “Intent signals need to be combined with the rest of the data so you understand it in context.”

Episode 44: Trade Shows as a Sales Channel, Not an Event

In this episode, Richard Ellis hosts David Howerton, CEO and founder of VendoIQ, to discuss the effectiveness of trade shows in the B2B sector. Despite high ROI, many companies lose substantial value due to poor planning, weak data capture, and ineffective follow-up. David emphasizes viewing trade shows as part of a holistic program rather than isolated events, focusing on pre-show planning, in-event processes, and post-show follow-up to maximize ROI. Key insights include the importance of in-person interactions, the necessity of capturing meaningful data, and coordination among marketing, sales, and field teams. The episode underscores the need for strategic preparation and execution to leverage trade shows for business growth. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Trade Shows and Their ROI 00:52 Guest Introduction: David Howerton 01:32 The Importance of Trade Shows in Lead Generation 05:24 Maximizing Trade Show Success: Pre-Show Planning 13:19 Effective Strategies During the Trade Show 21:13 Post-Show Follow-Up: Ensuring ROI 25:25 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Keywords trade shows, field selling, sales execution, lead capture, follow up, pipeline velocity, buying authority, in person selling, human connection, competitive intelligence, account planning, pre show planning, post show process, CRM breakdowns, memory decay, voice to text capture, natural language interface, sales handoff, rev ops, field marketing, ICP targeting, meeting booking, sales channel strategy, program management, sales workflow, deal acceleration Soundbites “Trade shows are not the problem. The gap between the conversation and what happens next is.” “People show up to events without knowing why they’re there.” “If you can’t articulate who you’re talking to and why, the show is already a loss.” “Human connections are becoming more scarce, which makes in-person moments more valuable.” “You’re not just talking to prospects. You’re sitting inside an ecosystem.” “Memory decay is real. Conversations blur together faster than people expect.” “Capturing names without context is where value disappears.” “Most breakdowns happen at the handoff.” “If follow-up is slow or generic, a competitor will beat you to it.” “Treat trade shows like a sales channel, not a calendar event.”

Episode 43: How to Be a Podcast Guest Executives Want to Hear

This episode delves into the art of being a great podcast guest, particularly for senior executives who increasingly turn to podcasts as a platform to build authority and reach new audiences. Host Richard Ellis is joined by award-winning journalist Chris Warren. They explore key attributes that make guests memorable, such as being great conversationalists, connecting small details to bigger themes, and steering clear of self-serving marketing speak. Chris Warren shares practical advice on how to prepare for podcasts, the importance of transparency and storytelling, and how these skills can translate into better leadership and communication in various business settings. The conversation also touches on the co-creation of narratives and engaging with audiences authentically. The episode concludes with a personal touch as Chris shares some recent 'goodness' in his life, namely his enjoyment of a book on Captain Cook. Chapters 00:00 The Rise of Podcasting Among Executives 00:39 Introduction to Today's Topic: Being a Great Podcast Guest 01:35 The Art of Being a Great Conversationalist 05:23 Avoiding Common Pitfalls as a Podcast Guest 09:04 The Importance of Authenticity and Humility 15:52 Relating Podcast Skills to Business Leadership 19:47 Co-Creating Narratives in Business Meetings 22:38 Conclusion and Personal Reflections Keywords podcasts, podcast guesting, executive visibility, leadership communication, conversational skills, storytelling, audience service, relevance, authenticity, preparation, listening, humility, credibility, transparency, answering questions, context, examples, narrative, co creation, audience focus, producer perspective, media literacy, executive presence, communication skills, trust, engagement Soundbites “Great podcast guests are great conversationalists. That’s something our culture has almost forgotten.” “You answer the question, then you layer context, examples, and meaning. The best guests connect the small to the big.” “If you come in with five things you have to say, the conversation is already limited.” “When someone reads their answers, you’re done before you start.” “People tune into a podcast for their reasons, not yours.” “Your job as a guest is to serve the audience.” “If your driving impulse is ‘I have to sound smart,’ you’re setting yourself up for failure.” “When you drift, stop yourself. Bring it back. That shows humility and respect for the listener’s time.” “Always answer the question. People ask for a reason.” “How you communicate shapes how people engage with you. It’s foundational.”

Episode 42: Did ABM Fail?

In this episode of 'Some Goodness,' we explore the evolution of account-based marketing (ABM) with Jessica Fewless, VP of Marketing at Inverta and an original architect of modern ABM. The discussion delves into the challenges and missteps in ABM implementation over the last decade, highlighting how marketing discipline, not ABM itself, needs improvement. Jessica provides insights into the need for alignment between sales and marketing, the importance of understanding and targeting the Ideal Customer Profile (ICP), and how AI and technology can enhance ABM strategies. She emphasizes the importance of getting back to marketing fundamentals and the need for rigorous data management. The episode closes with practical tips on creating relevant messaging and maintaining work-life balance. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to B2B Marketing Challenges 00:43 Guest Introduction: Jessica Fless 01:17 The Evolution of Account-Based Marketing (ABM) 05:47 Challenges and Missteps in ABM Implementation 08:36 The Role of Buying Committees in ABM 12:22 Future of ABM and Demand Generation 14:20 Fundamentals and Best Practices in Marketing 22:18 The Importance of Data Hygiene and AI 24:09 Final Thoughts and Personal Insights Keywords Account based marketing, ABM, one to one ABM, one to many ABM, marketing discipline, demand generation, sales and marketing alignment, ICP, ideal customer profile, target accounts, buying groups, buying committees, intent data, MQLs, MQAs, pipeline efficiency, revenue efficiency, personalization at scale, relevance, focus, go to market strategy, batch and blast, volume based marketing, signal based marketing, consensus messaging, account focus, TAM versus ICP, sustainable revenue, data hygiene, CRM data, AI in marketing, marketing fundamentals, technology versus strategy, noise in the market, buyer journey, digital buying behavior, sales marketing partnership Soundbites “Marketers were feeling like they were on this hamster wheel. Doing more and more, sending more emails, producing more content, and sales was disqualifying more and more of it.” “One-to-many ABM served its purpose. It broke bad habits like batch and blast and reliance on volume.” “Sales always knew there was a buying committee. Marketing just never operationalized it.” “It should never be a handoff between marketing and sales. It has to be a partnership.” “Buying groups require consensus messaging, not just persona level personalization.” “If you just buy the technology and think you’re doing ABM, you’re skipping the work.” “You are doing your board a disservice by continuing to play into the TAM narrative.” “You can’t build a sustainable revenue engine by focusing on your total addressable market. You have to focus on your ICP.” “AI will not tell you your data is wrong. It will confidently give you answers based on bad data.”

Episode 41: 2025 in Review

This year-end review episode of 'Some Goodness' delves into the significant business themes of 2025, including the dominance of AI, the importance of clear workflows, and the crucial role of consistent messaging. The episode compiles insights from various conversations with business leaders, including Ben Scoones, Chris Blocker, Chris Strammiello, Stacy Leidwinger, Jim Karrh, Steve Graves, and Larry Sweeney. They highlight that tools and technology alone cannot resolve fundamental issues like weak leadership and poor execution. The discussion explores the balance between human touch and automation, the pitfalls of vanity metrics, and the fundamental role of strong leadership and moral integrity in navigating fast-changing business landscapes. Chapters 00:00 AI's Impact on Business in 2025 00:35 Year-End Review: Lessons from 2025 01:00 The Pitfalls of Relying on Tools 03:07 The Importance of Consistent Messaging 04:23 Navigating AI and Leadership Challenges 08:07 The Fundamentals of Effective Leadership 08:26 The Dangers of Vanity Metrics 09:57 The Power of Storytelling in Business 12:48 Execution and Moral Leadership 16:31 The Role of Trust in Leadership 17:53 Final Reflections on Leadership in 2025 Keywords AI, leadership, judgment, execution, clarity, workflows, decision making, messaging consistency, brand trust, automation limits, fundamentals, prioritization, discernment, sales productivity, win rate, vanity metrics, cost of sale, storytelling, human element, culture, accountability, mentorship, trust, integrity, management, go to market, organizational behavior Soundbites “Understanding your own workflow should be a basic requirement for doing anything within a business, especially when you’re looking to integrate AI technology.” Ben Scoones “If you can’t tell a person what to do and expect them to be successful, why would you expect AI to do a good job?” Ben Scoones “It doesn’t matter having the perfect words. It matters being consistent.” Stacy Leidwinger “When an organization all uses the same words, that’s when you get power of brand and power of message.” Stacy Leidwinger “Stories are compelling because something disrupts the status quo and forces a decision.” Jim Karrh “Most customer success stories are technically correct, but what’s missing is emotion.” Jim Karrh “When we win, we have to be careful not to get addicted to outcomes.” Steve Graves “Nothing else is more important than the relationship you have with your manager. Money and managers keep people in their jobs.” Larry Sweeney “Leaders have to show up not just as competent people, but as the kind of people others want to follow.” Chris Blocker