Rule-Breakers

PROPYLON

Rule-breakers: the podcast about disruption in digital publishing.

Every month, Rule-breakers host, Sean McGrath dives into the fascinating world of digital publishing, exploring how technology is reshaping a very important part of modern life: the way we create and access laws, standards, and guidance.
If you’re curious about the forces affecting change in this space, you’re in the right place.

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15 episodes
monthly
Avg 57 min
English

Episodes 15

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S1 · E15
June 2 · 59 min
Ep #15: From digital books to digital agents: Edd Wilder-James on the Evolution of Structured Information
Edd Wilder-James joins us in this episode for a wide-ranging conversation that begins in the early XML and SGML communities and stretches all the way to today’s AI-driven world. Along the way, we revisit the rise of pivotal standards such as DocBook,...
S1 · E14
April 27 · 58 min
Ep #14: Information Architecture and Structured Documents in an AI world
In this episode, Sean McGrath sits down with Alex Smith, Global Product Lead for Knowledge, Search, and AI at iManage, to unpack what’s really happening at the intersection of AI and the world of legal practice. With a career spanning nearly two...
March 23 · 56 min
Ep #13: Identity, security and privacy - with digital identity pioneer, Eve Maler
In this episode of Rule Breakers, Sean McGrath sits down with Eve Maler, a pioneer in digital identity and a long standing member of the XML community who was influential in shaping XML itself, based on her expertise in its predecessor SGML. Eve has...
February 16 · 1 hr
Ep #12: From SGML (1986) to LLMs (2026): Jon Udell on The Tools That Make Digital Knowledge Work
In this episode of Rule Breakers, we’re joined by author and software developer Jon Udell, a longtime explorer of the tools that shape how we write, publish, and work with knowledge. From the early days of SGML and semi-structured content to the...
S1 · E9
January 5 · 1 hr
Ep #11: XML, HCI, and a retrospective on markup and the Web with Steven Pemberton
In this episode, we speak with Steven Pemberton, a pioneer of the early web, the first user in Europe to connect to the open internet, and a long-time contributor to standards at the W3C including CSS and XHTML. He also worked on the ABC programming...
S1 · E10
Dec 1, 2025 · 1 hr 17 min
Ep #10: Markup Goes Beyond Tags: Rick Jelliffe on Language Markup, Structure & Semantics in XML
Dive into an in-depth conversation with Rick Jelliffe, one of the most influential figures in the world of markup languages and structured data. Rick's contributions to markup and markup standards span from SGML in the 1980s, XML in the Nineties, up...
Nov 3, 2025 · 1 hr 11 min
Ep #9: The Web Before Google: Liam Quin on HoTMetaL, XML, and the First Web Standards
The latest episode of Rule-Breakers features Liam Quin a pioneering figure in the world of electronic publishing and generalized markup. In this conversation, we learn about Liam’s journey from a childhood fascination with typesetting that started...
S1 · E8
Oct 6, 2025 · 47 min
Ep #8: The evolution of structured data formats — from XML to AI with Anthony Coates
Join Rule-breakers host, Sean McGrath and our latest guest, Anthony Coates, for a deep dive into the history and necessity of structured content. Drawing on his experience at Reuters and his work on major financial standards such as FPML, Tony...
S1 · E7
Sep 1, 2025 · 56 min
Ep#7: The quiet innovator: the building blocks of structured documents with James Clark
Ever wonder how websites and apps are built to look organized and work the way they do? In the latest episode of Rule-breakers, Sean talks to James Clark, a true pioneer who helped create the hidden rules and structure that make the modern web...
S1 · E6
Aug 4, 2025 · 59 min
Ep#6: Tim Bray: How did the internet learn to 'read' and organize information?
Sean talks to Tim Bray, a true pioneer in the world of digital documents and computing. Tim talks about his early work, including the groundbreaking Oxford English Dictionary (OED) project at the University of Waterloo. Tim went on to co-create the...
Jul 7, 2025 · 31 min
EP#5: Thomas Bruce: the Renaissance man behind the Cello browser and Legal Information Institute
In this episode of Rule-breakers, Sean talks to Thomas Bruce about his remarkable career. From his days as a master electrician for the Yale Rep to touring with music legends, Thomas developed the Cello web browser, one of the internet's first...
S1 · E4
Jun 2, 2025 · 54 min
Ep#4: Designing for knowledge complexity: DITA, AI, and next-generation delivery with Eliot Kimber
In this episode, content engineering pioneer Eliot Kimber shares key lessons from his career on managing complexity in content systems. Author of DITA for Practitioners Volume 1: Architecture and Technology, Eliot explores the value of structured...
S1 · E3
May 5, 2025 · 59 min
Ep#3 Before AI, there was DocBook: Simon St.Laurent on the tech foundations that still matter
Simon St.Laurent offers an insider's perspective on the evolution of structured content and markup technologies at O'Reilly and throughout his career, emphasizing how tools like DocBook, Framemaker, and SGML laid the groundwork for today's...
S1 · E2
Apr 14, 2025 · 59 min
Ep #2: Metal Type to the Web: Peter Flynn & the Birth of HTML
In this episode of Rule-breakers, Sean talks to Peter Flynn, an expert in markup languages and typesetting. With a background in traditional printing and computer typesetting, Peter transitioned into academia at UCC, where he became involved in early...
S1 · E1
Apr 7, 2025 · 44 min
Ep #1: 25 years of Law and Tech: AI, Documents, and the Next Generation
In this episode, Sean and John talk about 25 years of technological change, focusing on AI's impact on legislation and regulation. They highlight the shift to natural language interfaces and the need for responsible AI adoption, emphasizing data...

Showing 1–15 of 15 episodes