Proof Over Precedent

Access to Justice Lab at Harvard Law School

The Access to Justice Lab at Harvard Law School discusses the work of bringing credible evidence to lawyers, judges, and decision makers, to transform the U.S. justice system into an evidence-based field. We bring you weekly one-on-one interviews with experts in the area of access to justice -- researchers, lawyers, professors, law students, data analysts, research participants, and anyone who has an interesting role in this growing area.

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20 episodes
Updated Thursday

Episodes20

Newest first

Thursday · 21 min
Episode 64: Can AI Resolve Brazil's Judicial Backlog?
More than 100 million pending cases await Brazil courts, so it may not be surprising that the country's Supreme Court Justice has a reportedly rosy view of AI in the court system, especially in time-sensitive civil and criminal matters. The potential for AI to help alleviate the backlog and potentially bring more balance and less bias may brush over the possible system errors and human rubber-stamping that come with it. This "Student Voices" podcast discusses Brazil's use of AI in the court syst
Tuesday · 28 min
Episode 63: Texas Two-Step Bankruptcy--Corporate Restructuring or Legal Loophole?
The Texas Two-Step is a fairly simple dance, but in the world of corporate bankruptcy, it's the name of a sophisticated maneuver that some profitable companies employ to stop mass tort liabilities and limit the settlements due to victims. It splits a company and strategically divides its assets and liabilities. In this manner, the companies win and the tort victims, by comparison, lose. But there may be reason for cautious optimism. Proof Over Precedent interviews bankruptcy scholar and law prof
July 27 · 30 min
Episode 62: Navigating Immigration Law Post-Trump v. CASA
Trump v. CASA did not directly address immigration and birthright citizenship when it ruled against universal injunctions, and yet...The aftermath of the ruling left the immigration law landscape in a tailspin. This week's Proof Over Precedent episode interviews Katie Taylor, Legal Director of the Neighbors Immigration Clinic (Lexington, KY), where the practice has shifted its role now that the state houses eight immigration detention centers. She provides a frontline view of the scramble that i
July 20 · 20 min
Episode 61: The Promise and Pitfalls of Active Judging
Pro se litigants have reason to hope for a better civil courtroom experience with active judging. If done right, this reform promises more clarity and mercy for those unfamiliar with legal procedures, and better fact-finding and balanced evidence for judges overseeing the cases. This week's Proof Over Precedent episode discusses the potential for reform, what's holding judges back from fully adopting it, and the procedural and legislative changes necessary to support both judges and pro se litig
July 13 · 56 min
Episode 60: Beyond Gideon—Rethinking Access to Justice
Is it time for an inquisitorial legal system? How about a redesigned "lawyer-less" court? This isn't the wild west of the legal world, but rather a lively discussion among three access to justice advocates on the merits–or rather shortcomings–of a push for a civil right to counsel and possible alternatives to closing the access to justice gap. Join Law Professor Benjamin Barton (University of Tennessee), The Honorable Stephanos Bibas of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit, and our ow
July 6 · 34 min
Episode 59: Legal Aid on the Front Line of Immigration
When it comes to immigration, the legal aid sector has pivoted its resources from affirmative relief for immigrants to defense deportation and detention center intakes. In this "Student Voices" podcast, the discussion between fellow Harvard Law School J.D. candidates Andrew Garcia and Emily Irigoyen, the latter of whom co-leads the Harvard Immigration Project, ranges from the fallout of this shift in immigration legal aid resources to the shortcomings of typical immigration proceedings and the n
June 29 · 24 min
Episode 58: Labor Innovations Bridge Access-to-Justice Gap for Immigrants
Labor movements have had to get creative when it comes to labor justice for immigrant workers. That's where worker centers fill the niche not covered by traditional labor unions. In this Proof Over Precedent episode, HLS Professor Sharon Block, executive director of the Center for Labor and a Just Economy, discusses the difference between the two labor organizations, the future of the two, and the vital role collective action plays in advocating for justice.
June 22 · 24 min
Episode 57: Libraries and AI—Partners for Accessible Justice?
In this "Student Voices" episode, HLS student Grace Gao interviews Ari Scourtas, Product and Research Manager of the Library Innovation Lab at Harvard Law School, about making AI legal tools accessible for people facing digital barriers. The discussion covers legal AI's risks and opportunities for self representation and the expanding role libraries play in bridging the knowledge gap around AI.
June 18 · 21 min
Episode 56: The Conflicting Sides of Police Procedural Protections
This bonus episode of Proof Over Precedent looks at the access to justice issues around the Law Enforcement Officer Bill of Rights (LEOBR) statutes and contract provisions that grant police officers enhanced procedural protections during internal misconduct investigations. At odds are the tensions between public accountability and officers’ claims of needing protection from false accusations. HLS student Strong Ma proposes a randomized controlled trial to study the effects on investigation outco
June 16 · 32 min
Episode 55: Navigating Workplace Justice Through an AI Lens
Workplace justice issues take center stage in this Proof Over Precedent "student voices" episode focused on Reclamo AI, an AI chatbot, developed to help workers--especially immigrant communities -- address wage theft and find local advocates. Joshua Medina, legal director for Pro Bono Net's JusticiaLab, shares insight on the transformation of the tool, including its efforts to protect user privacy and to avoid unauthorized practice of law.
June 8 · 30 min
Episode 54: Will Clearing a Criminal Record Lead to Happiness (and Housing)?
"My criminal record doesn't reflect who I am anymore." This sentiment overwhelmingly topped the list of reasons why expungement study participants wanted to clear their record that it seemed plausible to predict that clearing one's criminal record would lead to higher levels of life satisfaction. Likewise, it did not seem far-fetched to assume individuals without a criminal record would fare better in obtaining housing than those with one. In both cases though, the A2J Lab and Kansas Legal Servi
June 2 · 45 min
Episode 53: Expungement Expectations vs. Reality in Employment
The A2J Lab's randomized control trial on expungement examined the uptake and obstacles of criminal record clearing while also looking into its effect on various socio-economic outcomes. This week's Proof Over Precedent episode gathers study researchers to discuss the "surprising and depressing" findings on expungement's effect on employment. They also dive into explanations for the stark difference between individuals' optimism and reality in the experiment.
May 26 · 48 min
Episode 52: Study Exposes Complex Criminal Record Clearing Process
Is the form-filling expungement process as easy for unrepresented individuals as some believe? In this week's Proof Over Precedent episode, host Jim Greiner welcomes the A2J Lab team involved in our long-running Kansas-based study looking at the current record-clearing process and its obstacles. The results offer clear evidence for what it takes for a successful expungement.
May 19 · 48 min
Episode 51: How Lawyers and Rental Assistance Impact Eviction Cases
Facing an eviction, a tenant has to decide if the added expense of an attorney is worth it for the possibility of avoiding an eviction judgment. In a discussion of a randomized controlled trial outside the A2J Lab, Faculty Director Jim Greiner talks with economists Aviv Caspi and Charlie Rafkin about when, why, and whether lawyers make a difference in evictions cases. The study coincided with a government emergency housing fund that expired during the RCT, which helped answer how lawyers can bes
May 12 · 39 min
Episode 50: Pro Se Litigants, AI, and the Future of Legal Assistance
State bar associations typically file more UPL complaints than consumers. Given the intended aim of protecting consumers, UPL may actually be serving more as an obstacle and less as a protection for consumers using generative AI in the legal space. That's the argument Wake Forest Law Professor and UPL expert Ellen Murphy makes in the latest Proof Over Precedent episode, where she identifies the legal industry's progress with AI regulation by state and how AI and human counseling may combine to b
May 4 · 23 min
Episode 49: AI and the Future of Legal Aid—Navigating Unauthorized Practice
The low cost and accessibility of AI make it a potential game changer for pro se litigation and the future of affordable legal aid. But with the patchwork of state unauthorized practice of law (UPL) rules and no court resolution on AI's UPL liability, it also faces an uncertain future as a legal tool. HLS students tackle the issue in the latest Proof Over Precedent and distinguish between legal information and legal advice—a key to general-purpose AI's future in law.
April 27 · 38 min
Episode 48: Legal Evolution from Auto Clubs to Access Barriers
When the organized bar association faced financial strain during the Depression, it cracked down on low-cost legal service providers via auto clubs like AAA, contributing to today's access-to-justice gap. In this "How did we get here?"-style episode, HLS student Andrew Reed interviews Stanford Professor Nora Freeman Engstrom and University of Chicago Fellow James Stone about their research and the "revolution" taking place in many states to reform the legal profession.
April 27 · 40 min
Episode 48: Legal Evolution from Auto Clubs to Access Barriers
When the organized bar association faced financial strain during the Depression, it cracked down on low-cost legal service providers via auto clubs like AAA, contributing to today's access-to-justice gap. In this "How did we get here?"-style episode, HLS student Andrew Reed interviews Stanford Professor Nora Freeman Engstrom and University of Chicago Fellow James Stone about their research and the "revolution" taking place in many states to reform the legal profession.
April 23 · 20 min
Episode 47: How Does Interrogation Room Design Impact Legal Outcomes?
How likely would you be able to answer questions under duress seated in a hard chair in a windowless, flourescent-lit box of a room? What about in a larger space with natural lighting and comfortable seating? In this episode of Proof Over Precedent, HLS student Spencer Thieme discusses interrogation rooms and the effect of a physical environment on stress, memory, disclosure, and false confessions. She also considers potential randomized controlled trials for studying interrogation room design.
April 23 · 20 min
Episode 47: How Does Interrogation Room Design Impact Legal Outcomes?
How likely would you be able to answer questions under duress seated in a hard chair in a windowless, flourescent-lit box of a room? What about in a larger space with natural lighting and comfortable seating? In this episode of Proof Over Precedent, HLS student Spencer Thieme discusses interrogation rooms and the effect of a physical environment on stress, memory, disclosure, and false confessions. She also considers potential randomized controlled trials for studying interrogation room design.