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Org Design Podcast

Amy Springer, Tim Brewer, Damian Bramanis

Leaders share real stories from organizational (org) design, workforce transformation, and managing structure change. We highlight the challenges and breakthroughs seen first hand helping organizations become places people love. This is for any leader who is creating organizations of the future. Join host Amy Springer and the co-founders of Functionly, Tim Brewer and Damian Bramanis, on their quest to make work work better.

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June 18 · 24 min
A Stock Market for Talent: Rethinking How We Value People with Jacob Chase
In this episode of the Org Design Podcast, Amy Springer talks with Jacob Chase, founder of The Infin, about one of the hardest questions in org design: how do you fairly value what a person actually contributes? Drawing on his background as an investment banker and hedge fund investor — and his experience scaling a 150-person, $30M real estate business — Jacob shares how a single underpaid 'rock star' employee sparked his search for a better way to measure impact. The answer came from an unexpected place: the stock market. Jacob explains how he built an internal 'market' for attributing credit, where every team member's peer feedback aggregates into a live, dynamic picture of contribution. The result is a more credible, less political, and more transparent approach to performance — one that decentralizes accountability, surfaces hidden leadership (and hidden problems), and ultimately connects each person's contribution to fair compensation. 00:00 Welcome & introducing Jacob Chase (The Infin) 00:19 From Wall Street to org design 01:34 Investor vs. operator: why people drive returns 04:10 Transferable skills from Wall Street: thoroughness & rigor 05:29 The underpaid 'rock star' and the problem of measuring contribution 07:07 How a broader impact became visible 08:37 Why the classic HR review model falls short 09:30 Borrowing from stock markets: a market for value 11:26 Decentralizing accountability & removing politics 12:47 Surfacing hidden leadership and underperformance 15:22 Smoothing performance anxiety in an uncertain world 19:42 Connecting contribution to the 'pie' and compensation 21:54 Who brings this to their org (CEO-led) 22:43 Final thoughts: get people the right inputs The Org Design Podcast https://www.functionly.com/org-design-podcasthttps://www.linkedin.com/company/orgdesignpodcast/ Functionly https://www.functionly.com /https://www.linkedin.com/company/functionly/
June 4 · 30 min
Influence Without Authority: Org Design Lessons from Higher Ed Marketing with Rob Zinkan
Rob Zinkan shares how specializing in higher-ed marketing and communications led them into organization design, why “centralize vs decentralize” and “bust silos” are often unhelpful binaries, and how leaders can improve effectiveness by clarifying purpose, strategy, and ways of working. Key themes include influence without authority, integrating across silos, making trade-offs explicit, engaging people through co-creation (not just buy-in), and treating org design as an ongoing leadership discipline—especially amid hybrid work and AI. 00:00 Intro + Rob’s path into org design via higher education 03:54 Why specialize (industry + function) and where it creates value 06:34 Marketing as an enterprise capability aligned to strategy 10:27 Universities, repeatable org units, and strategy tensions (research vs teaching) 11:59 Centralize vs decentralize; silos and horizontal integration mechanisms 15:30 Business model + operating model realities in universities 18:11 Moving from diagnosis to future-state operating reality; engaging people 20:49 When to apply org design principles (any size team; ongoing discipline) 23:11 One leadership skill: ask better questions (and listen) 24:25 Hybrid/AI shifts focus from org charts to operating models 26:17 Accountability, org charts, and codifying ways of working 30:21 Wrap-up The Org Design Podcast https://www.functionly.com/org-design-podcast https://www.linkedin.com/company/orgdesignpodcast/ Functionly https://www.functionly.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/functionly/
May 14 · 21 min
Why You’re Undervaluing Your Skills—and What to Do About It with Lorena Balestrieri
In this episode of the Org Design Podcast, host Tim Brewer welcomes Lorena Balestrieri, future chair of the European Organizational Design Forum, to discuss her unconventional career path—from hospitality in Argentina to tech leadership at Booking.com, and her pivot to helping mid‑career professionals reinvent themselves. Lorena shares how she identified gaps in HR and org design, built a niche helping middle managers and women navigate career transitions, and emphasizes the importance of networking, strengths assessment (SWOT), and practical tools like resume building and LinkedIn. She explains org design in simple terms, outlines her mentoring approach, and invites listeners to connect with her on LinkedIn for personalized support. The conversation highlights the evolving org‑design community, the need for mid‑level talent development, and actionable steps for professionals seeking career reinvention. www.functionly.com
April 23 · 24 min
Why “Buy-In” Fails—and What Leaders Should Do Instead with Simon Davies
This episode is a practical deep dive into how organisations actually change—not just talk about it. Simon Davies (20+ years in org design across Europe and North America) breaks down why most “transformation” efforts fail, and what leaders should do instead. The core idea: You have two choices when leading change—force compliance or build commitment. Simon argues that while top-down decisions feel faster, they create a long tail of resistance. A collaborative approach may feel slower upfront, but leads to faster, smoother execution because people support what they help create. The conversation explores: Why “buy-in” is a flawed concept How to involve people without losing control What an operating model actually is (in plain English) The real signs your organisation needs redesign How to structure change so it doesn’t become chaos If you’re leading a team or organisation and feeling friction, misalignment, or stalled progress—this episode gives you a practical lens to rethink how change happens. @functionly @orgdesignpodcast www.functionly.com
April 9 · 18 min
Designing Better Workshops: The Power of Visual Thinking in Org Design with Szilard Strenner
Most org design work disappears the moment the workshop ends. In this episode, Szilard Strenner explains how visual facilitation turns strategy into something people can actually see, engage with, and remember. Instead of flipping through forgotten slide decks or buried documents, visual facilitation uses large-scale, pre-designed templates and real-time visual recording to help teams think together, align faster, and retain decisions. The key idea: 👉 Great facilitation isn’t about what happens in the room—it’s about what’s designed before it. Szilard shares how: • Visual structures guide thinking and decision-making • Physical interaction (moving cards, filling space) drives engagement • Preparation (not improvisation) is what makes facilitation effective • Strategy can live beyond the workshop as a shared, visual “one-pager” across the business For leaders doing org design, this is a shift from: • Slides → Shared artefacts • Talking → Co-creating • Outputs → Alignment @orgdesignpodcast @functionly https://www.linkedin.com/in/szilard-strenner/ https://grafacity.eu/
March 12 · 16 min
No Such Thing as Perfect Org Design — But There Is Really Bad Org Design with Ann Greene
In this episode of the Org Design Podcast, I sit down with Ann Greene from Alagi to explore the complexities of organizational design. We dive into the misconception that there is a perfect structure for every organization, discussing why that ideal doesn't exist and how some designs can be detrimental. Ann highlights common symptoms of poor org design, such as slow decision-making and ineffective collaboration, and emphasizes the importance of aligning design with strategy. Through engaging analogies, including one about wardrobe organization, we uncover the creative and structured approach necessary for effective org design. Join us for insights that can help leaders tackle their organizational challenges head-on.
February 26 · 23 min
Stop Blaming the Tool: Why Workflow Design Determines Your AI ROI with Bianca Hill, DecidrAI
In this episode of the Org Design Podcast, I sit down with Bianca Hill from DecidrAI to explore the critical relationship between workflow design and artificial intelligence. We delve into why blaming the technology for underwhelming AI ROI misses the mark. Bianca shares her insights on how structured intelligence can enhance AI's deterministic responses, especially in environments that demand consistency. We discuss the evolving landscape of work, the importance of understanding workflows, and how organizations can effectively integrate AI without facing resistance from their teams. Join us as we uncover strategies to harness AI's potential while fostering a collaborative environment for the future of work.
February 12 · 28 min
Your Company Has No Boundaries Only Horizons with Stelio Verzera
Recorded live in Milan at the European Organisation Design Forum, this conversation with Stelio Verzera goes far beyond org charts. Stelio traces his path from aerospace engineering and early internet consulting into 30 years of sociotechnical systems work, and explains why organizations should be treated as living, evolving systems not machines. You’ll hear why he uses serious games and Lego Serious Play to surface what people feel and “don’t know they know” about performance, trust, leadership and strategy and why working with your hands can create breakthroughs that stick for years. Stelio shares the moments that define teams, including when senior leaders unexpectedly find language for what matters and the room changes. He also offers a leader-ready model for change using the metaphor of a river: tools and processes are visible on the surface, but capabilities, culture and people sit deeper and move slower. Ignore the deeper layers and you create change fatigue because the “inertia of the river” will swallow your initiatives. Finally, Stelio looks forward. He argues org design is shifting from mechanistic thinking to organic, adaptive organizing and now toward an ecosystemic view where organizational “boundaries” are mental constructs and leaders’ responsibility extends across partners, families and communities. With AI automating more knowledge work, Stelio believes the future of org design will center even more on relationships, context, and how humans collaborate in a messy world to create value that benefits the whole ecosystem. Functionly www.functionly.com Org Design podcast www.functionly.com/org-design-podcast Cocoon Pro cocoon-pro.com
January 29 · 12 min
The Accidental Manager: Why Everyone in Your Company Is About to Lead a Team (of AI Agents)
In the next 18 months, everyone in your organization will become a manager—not of people, but of AI agents. Yet most employees have never designed a role, created a delegation framework, or built performance metrics. This episode reveals why the most critical skill for the AI era isn't coding or prompt engineering—it's organizational design thinking. Drawing on insights from leaders implementing AI at scale, host Amy Springer explores how hybrid human-AI teams are fundamentally restructuring work, why traditional management principles still apply (just faster), and the four principles you need to design effective agent teams. Plus: three concrete actions you can take this week to prepare your organization for this transformation. Key insight: Organizations that win won't have the most advanced AI—they'll have the best organizational design. Functionly.com
January 15 · 12 min
Avoiding Chaos in Org Design – Strategy Before Structure with Shannon Horne
n this episode of the Org Design Podcast, recorded live at the Org Design Festival, hosts Tim Brewer and Amy Springer sit down with Shannon Horne, HR leader and transformation specialist, to explore the realities of organizational design inside a global company of 11,000 employees. Shannon shares her journey into org design, the challenges of turning strategy into structure, and why confusion, turnover, and missed ROI often come when org design is treated as an afterthought. She offers practical insights on creating healthier org design cultures—where employees feel secure, leaders are transparent, and talent is repurposed rather than lost. For leaders wondering if they have an org design problem on their hands, Shannon also gives her “friend-to-friend” advice: start with discovery before restructuring, and ask whether the issue is really structure—or something deeper. This episode is packed with real-world transformation lessons and practical tips for executives, HR professionals, and organizational designers who want to avoid chaos and build resilient, people-centered organizations. Shannon Horne https://www.linkedin.com/in/shannonhorne/ Functionly https://www.linkedin.com/company/functionly https://www.functionly.com/ Org Design Podcast https://www.linkedin.com/company/orgdesignpodcast https://www.functionly.com/org-design-podcast Organization Design Forum https://organizationdesignforum.org/
January 1 · 27 min
The Intelligence Resources Revolution: Rethinking Org Design with AI Agents with Liz Jamieson
Liz Jamieson, founder of LJ People and former Head of Talent Acquisition at Amazon APAC, joins the Org Design Podcast to explore the emerging field of workforce architecture that integrates AI agents alongside human employees. Drawing on her 15 years of recruitment experience across 7,000 hires, Liz shares how organizations can strategically plan for a hybrid workforce where AI agents are managed similarly to human employees—complete with onboarding, training, performance reviews, and optimization. The conversation covers practical steps for mapping workflows, identifying automation opportunities, and deploying AI agents while maintaining transparency with teams. Liz introduces the concept of "Intelligence Resources" (IR) as an evolution of Human Resources, discusses the risks of shadow AI usage, and explains why org design is becoming everyone's responsibility as employees become "agent bosses." She emphasizes that AI augments rather than replaces human work, shifting focus to validation, collaboration, and critical thinking while agents handle repetitive tasks. Key topics include: workflow mapping as the foundation for agentic deployment, the need for enterprise-level AI governance, the emergence of Chief AI Officer roles, and why frontier firms are already seeing gains from strategic AI integration in their workforce planning. The Org Design Podcast https://www.functionly.com/org-design-podcast https://www.linkedin.com/company/orgdesignpodcast/ Functionly https://www.functionly.com https://www.linkedin.com/company/functionly/
Dec 18, 2025 · 40 min
Inside Virgin Media O2: Building Org Design for Mergers, Growth & the Future of Work with Dean Bonas and Adrian Clarke
In this episode of the Org Design Podcast, Tim Brewer and Damian Bramanis sit down with Adrian Clarke and Dean Bonas from Virgin Media O2 to unpack how they built and scaled an internal Org Design capability from the ground up. From the accidental career paths that led them into OD, to the challenge of designing the joint venture between Virgin Media and O2, Adrian and Dean share powerful insights on solving cross-functional problems, building leadership capacity, and creating a culture of change. They reveal the tools, frameworks, and cheat sheets they rely on, why operating models are more than org charts, and what it takes to prepare an organization for constant transformation and the rise of AI. If you’re a leader facing major transformation, M&A, or simply curious about how to embed org design in your company, this is a masterclass from two people who’ve lived it. Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/yHI3cbPyekA The Org Design Podcast https://www.functionly.com/org-design-podcast https://www.linkedin.com/company/orgdesignpodcast/ Functionly https://www.functionly.com https://www.linkedin.com/company/functionly/ Dean Bonas https://www.linkedin.com/in/deanbonas/ Adrian Clarke https://www.linkedin.com/in/adrianclarke2/
Dec 4, 2025 · 19 min
U.S. Navy officer turned federal org designer, Robert L. Stevens, on listening, leadership and lasting change
In this episode of the Org Design Podcast, recorded live at the Organization Design Forum’s Festival, hosts Tim Brewer and Amy Springer sit down with Robert Stevens, retired U.S. Navy officer turned federal org design leader. Robert shares how he discovered he’d been practicing org design long before he knew the name, and why true organizational change is about much more than “lines and boxes.” From uncovering hidden leadership gaps, to building communication plans that prevent confusion, to the power of simply listening—Robert provides practical insights drawn from decades of service and transformation work. Whether you’re a first-time leader, a seasoned executive, or simply curious about how to make organizations truly work for people, this conversation is packed with lessons on authenticity, courage, and systems thinking. Robert L. Stevens https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-stevens-6aa476238/ Functionly https://www.linkedin.com/company/functionly https://www.functionly.com/ Org Design Podcast https://www.linkedin.com/company/orgdesignpodcast https://www.functionly.com/org-design-podcast Organization Design Forum - https://organizationdesignforum.org/
Nov 20, 2025 · 28 min
How Job Architecture Fuels Organizational Agility with Jules Seigel-Hawley
What if org design wasn’t a three-year consulting project but a living, breathing practice? In this episode, Tim Brewer and Amy Springer sit down with Jules Siegel-Hawley, who has shaped job architecture and organizational systems at Doctors Without Borders and beyond. Jules shares how her background in clinical social work and acting led her into “cool HR,” why job architecture is the most high-stakes but foundational part of org design, and why leaders should treat organizational design as an ongoing rhythm rather than a big-bang transformation. From managing the tension of titles, power, and compensation, to exploring the rise of AI-human ecosystems, Jules unpacks the evolving challenges of leadership, transparency, and collaboration. Whether you’re leading a startup or managing a division in a global enterprise, this episode will help you see org design not as a one-off project, but as a practice of constant iteration, clarity, and trust. Jules Siegel-Hawley https://www.linkedin.com/in/jules-siegel-hawley-52210274/ https://www.andesadvisory.co/ Functionly https://www.functionly.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/functionly/ Org Design Podcast https://www.functionly.com/org-design-podcast https://www.linkedin.com/company/orgdesignpodcast/
Nov 6, 2025 · 26 min
Curiosity as a Catalyst: How to Lead with Intent in Evolving Organizations with John Deverill
In this episode of the Org Design Podcast, host Tim Brewer and guest cohost Rory Mustan sit down with John Deverill—former British Army lieutenant colonel, ex-GE Healthcare leader, and current NHS change-maker. John shares how the disciplines of military leadership translate into organizational agility, what healthcare can learn from the battlefield, and why most organizations evolve by accident rather than intentional design. From rethinking strategy as “what you actually do,” to building coalitions of the willing, to balancing tradition with innovation, John delivers a masterclass on leading through uncertainty. Whether you’re running a hospital, a corporation, or a fast-growing team, this episode will challenge how you think about leadership, strategy, and organizational resilience. John Deverill - https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-deverill-a04a7b1 EODF - https://eodf.eu/ Functionly https://www.linkedin.com/company/functionly https://www.functionly.com/ Org Design Podcast https://www.linkedin.com/company/orgdesignpodcast https://www.functionly.com/org-design-podcast
Oct 23, 2025 · 27 min
Marketing in the Age of AI: Levelling the Playing Field with Mike Montague
In this episode of The Org Design Podcast, Damian Bramanis and Amy Springer sit down with Mike Montague, founder of Avenue Nine, to explore how marketing is becoming a microcosm for the future of organizational design. They dive into: - How AI is disrupting entry-level marketing roles while amplifying mid- and senior-level capabilities - The shift from “feed the beast” content creation to message-first, strategy-driven marketing - Why brand voice and positioning remain the unshakable core amidst rapid technological change - How small and medium-sized businesses can leverage AI to compete with—and even outpace—big agencies - The storytelling essentials leaders need to bring teams along during times of rapid transformation Packed with practical insights, this episode reveals how marketing orgs are adapting to AI’s impact, what skills will matter most, and how leaders can design teams that thrive in the new landscape. Watch the episode on YouTube - https://youtu.be/Y6BUUnU4gc0 Org Design Podcast https://www.functionly.com/org-design-podcast https://open.spotify.com/show/0Xw3bbEISDbSDO5WT8O7bu?si=9c96e90e72394e20 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/org-design-podcast/id1501527726 Functionly https://www.functionly.com/ Avenue9 and Mike Montague https://avenue9.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/avenue9ai/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikedmontague/
Oct 9, 2025 · 10 min
The Art & Science of Org Design: Solving Problems Leaders Can’t See with Rhonda Frith-Lyons
In this episode of the Org Design Podcast, hosts Tim Brewer and Amy Springer engage in a compelling conversation with Rhonda Frith-Lyons, an experienced organizational designer, at the ODF conference in the Twin Cities. Architectural engineer turned organizational problem-solver, Rhonda Frith-Lyons, joins us from the ODF 2024 conference to share her journey into org design and the critical skills leaders need to thrive in a rapidly changing business environment. Rhonda unpacks how the worlds of art, science, and behavioral insight intersect in organizational design, why leaders must resist the urge to “just move boxes,” and how AI is reshaping the way we think about transformation. With decades of experience across supply chain, IT, and global multinationals, she offers practical advice on diagnosing problems, framing the right questions, and leading with intentionality. Rhonda highlights the need for leaders to adopt a holistic view of their organizations, considering how changes in one area affect the entire system. If you’re a leader navigating growth, change, or disruption, this conversation will help you see your organization as a system—and your role as its architect. Org Design Podcast https://www.functionly.com/org-design-podcast https://www.linkedin.com/company/orgdesignpodcast/ Sassy Entreprenuership https://www.linkedin.com/company/thesassyentrepreneurllc/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/rhondalfrithlyons/ Functionly https://www.functionly.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/functionly/
Sep 25, 2025 · 19 min
Solving Big Problems? Get People in a Room with Anissa Oukhiar
Live from Milan at the European Organization Design Forum (EODF), Tim Brewer and Damian Bramanis sit down with Anissa Oukhiar — EODF Chair, trustee, and host of Brown, Brainy and Beautiful. Anissa shares her unconventional journey into org design, from a multi-disciplinary academic path to finding her place in a collaborative consultancy, and ultimately leading a diverse, values-driven community. She explains why EODF is the “hippies” of the org design world, what makes its conferences so unique, and how the community’s spirit fosters both inclusion and innovation. This conversation dives into: • The power of pulling yourself into leadership roles rather than planning them • Why representation matters without tokenism • Anissa’s top three organizational symptoms that demand design intervention • The “physiotherapist” analogy for explaining org design to anyone — even a 10-year-old • How to get buy-in and navigate ambiguity without losing the human touch Whether you’re an org design veteran or just exploring the field, this episode offers both inspiration and practical wisdom from one of its most vibrant leaders. Org Design Podcast https://www.functionly.com/org-design-podcast https://www.linkedin.com/company/orgdesignpodcast/ Functionly https://www.functionly.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/functionly/ European Organisation Design Forum https://eodf.eu/ org design, EODF, Anissa Oukhiar, organizational behavior, collaborative work, community engagement, European Organization Design Forum, podcast, leadership, strategic alignment, organizational change, personal development, mentorship, networking, sustainable practices
Sep 11, 2025 · 37 min
Org Design Is Not an Org Chart: Reframing Work in the AI Era with Josh Epperson (Amazon)
In this episode, Amy Springer and Tim Brewer are joined by Josh Epperson, Senior Manager of Organizational Development at Amazon. Josh shares a refreshingly honest, thought-provoking journey from play-based therapy with children to shaping strategy, structure, and systems at one of the world’s largest companies. This conversation explores how org design is evolving in an AI-infused world—why the org chart is no longer enough, how agentic AI changes workforce strategy, and what leaders should be measuring (but often aren’t). Josh reveals practical frameworks like Fit to Purpose and Fit to Deliver, explains why most org design efforts are reactive (and broken), and challenges us to design ourselves out of a job before AI does it for us. Whether you’re an org design pro or a founder navigating scale, this is your blueprint for designing resilient, high-performing organizations. Josh Epperson https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshepperson/ Org Design Podcast https://www.linkedin.com/company/orgdesignpodcast/ https://www.functionly.com/org-design-podcast Functionly https://www.functionly.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/functionly/
Aug 28, 2025 · 16 min
Design Before You Scale: The Blueprint for High-Impact Organizations with Haris Ahmed
In this candid and compelling episode of the Org Design Podcast, recorded live at the Festival of Org Design 2024, hosts Tim Brewer and Damian Bramanis sit down with Haris Ahmed, founder of Pragmatium Consulting Group, to uncover three decades of wisdom in organizational transformation. Haris shares how he stumbled into org design during the Y2K era and evolved into a strategic advisor trusted by mid-market powerhouses and ambitious startups alike. From diagnosing dysfunction to architecting adaptive systems, Haris explains why getting the strategy-structure-capability triangle right is crucial—especially when the market moves faster than your 5-year plan. This episode is packed with practical advice for founders, leaders, and change agents—from identifying cultural silos to unlocking high-performance through clear leadership dynamics. Haris also reveals the surprising power of crucial conversations, the value of external perspectives, and why org design is no longer a luxury—it’s a leadership imperative. Haris Ahmed https://www.linkedin.com/in/harisahmedusa/ https://pragmatiumconsulting.com/ The Org Design Podcast https://www.functionly.com/org-design-podcast https://www.linkedin.com/company/orgdesignpodcast/ Functionly www.functionly.com https://www.linkedin.com/company/functionly/

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