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On Wisdom

Charles Cassidy and Igor Grossmann

What does it actually take to think wisely? On Wisdom digs into the empirical science of wisdom, judgment, and decision-making, and what it means for how we live. Igor Grossmann runs the Wisdom & Culture Lab at the University of Waterloo. Charles Cassidy runs the Evidence-Based Wisdom project in London. Each episode pairs freewheeling conversation with guest spots from leading behavioural scientists working on reasoning, wellbeing, culture, and society. Past guests include Adam Grant, Jonathan Haidt, Paul Bloom, Shannon Vallor, Lisa Barrett, David Dunning, Mara Mather, Tom Gilovich, Laura Carstensen, Oliver Burkeman, Simine Vazire, Dacher Keltner, and more. This autumn: a five-episode special series built around the first Annual Review of Psychology chapter on wisdom since 2011, featuring fifteen scholars on narrative, metacognition, measurement, training, and the neuroscience of wise decisions.

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21 episodes
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#70
Monday · 39 min
70: Special Series Episode 2: Metacognition and Judgment
_Welcome to a five-episode special series built around the first Annual Review of Psychology chapter on wisdom since 2011._ **Episode 2: Metacognition and Judgment (with Gord Pennycook, Steve Fleming, and Thomas Costello)** Is thinking _harder_ always the key to making better decisions, or can it sometimes make things worse? Gord Pennycook, Steve Fleming, and Thomas Costello join Igor and Charles to explore what happens when we start thinking about our own thinking. Gord reveals why intellige
#69
September 28 · 41 min
69: Special Series Episode 1: Exemplars and Narratives
_Welcome to a five-episode special series built around the first Annual Review of Psychology chapter on wisdom since 2011._ **Episode 1: Exemplars and Narratives (with Cristine Legare, Dan McAdams, and L.A. Paul)** When we face life challenges, where do our ideas about wise judgment, or even wisdom writ large come from, and how do they shape the way we work through such challenges and live thereafter? Cristine Legare, Dan McAdams, and L.A. Paul join Igor and Charles to explore the stories, pro
#68
September 16 · 2 min
68: Special Series Trailer: 5 Episodes on the Science of Wisdom
From 28th September Hosted by Igor Grossmann and Charles Cassidy 01 - EXEMPLARS AND NARRATIVES Cristine Legare - Dan McAdams - Laurie Paul 02 - METACOGNITION AND JUDGMENT Gordon Pennycook - Tom Costello - Steven Fleming 03 - MEASURING WISDOM Judith Glück - Monika Ardelt - Eranda Jayawickreme 04 - INTERVENTIONS AND TRAINING Judith Glück - Ethan Kross - Kristján Kristjánsson 05 - WISDOM FRONTIERS Dilip Jeste - Barry Schwartz - Justin Brienza
#67
Nov 16, 2025 · 49 min
67: The Wisdom Turing Test - Part Two (with Steve Rathje)
What can insights from the psychology of technology teach us about wisdom in the age of AI? In this special follow-up episode, Igor and Charles are joined by Steve Rathje to explore how classic ideas like the Turing Test hold up now that AI can talk compellingly about human wisdom. Steve unpacks what today’s generative models are actually capable of, Igor is intrigued by how quickly the line between human and machine reasoning seems to be blurring, and Charles realises that telling human insight
#66
Oct 26, 2025 · 40 min
66: The Wisdom Turing Test - Part One
What happens when we ask our own fantastic listeners — and AI — what it means to live wisely? In this episode, Igor and Charles hand the mic to members of the On Wisdom audience to hear their answers to the big questions usually reserved for scientists and philosophers. But there’s a twist: one set of responses was provided by AI. We invite you to vote on who gave the wisest answers — and to guess which one wasn’t human. Igor is surprised by just how insightful the answers from the regular folk
#65
May 8, 2025 · 58 min
65: Religion as Make-Believe (with Neil Van Leeuwen)
Is religious belief a form of make-believe — and if so, what deeper truths might we be acting out? Neil Van Leeuwen joins Igor and Charles to explore the psychological roots of religion, the nature of belief, and how sacred values shape group identity. Igor reflects on the blurring line between religious and political convictions, Neil argues that religious credence operates more like imaginative play than factual belief, and Charles considers whether conspiracy theories might be filling the sam
#64
Mar 12, 2025 · 59 min
64: The Potency and Potential of Social Networks (with Nicholas Christakis)
Are your choices really your own — or are they quietly shaped by the people around you? Nicholas Christakis joins Igor and Charles to reveal the hidden power of social networks, from the surprising spread of kindness and cooperation to the ripple effects that shape our health, decisions, and even our wisdom. Igor uncovers the invisible social forces influencing our daily lives, Nicholas shares how our deep-rooted instincts for love, friendship, and teaching have shaped human civilization, and Ch
#63
Feb 23, 2025 · 44 min
63: The AI Mirror: Why Machines Reflect Us More Than They Think (with Shannon Vallor)
Can AI ever be truly wise, or are we just seeing reflections of ourselves? Philosopher Shannon Vallor joins Igor and Charles to explore how technology shapes human wisdom, why we’ve been thinking about AI all wrong, and what it really means to align machines with our values. Shannon unpacks the AI Mirror metaphor, suggesting that today’s AI isn’t a thinking mind but a reflection of human data, Igor considers whether technology could ever help us become wiser rather than just more efficient, and
#62
Dec 9, 2024 · 57 min
62: Experimental Philosophy: Testing the Limits of Wisdom and Knowledge (with Edouard Machery)
What happens when philosophers start running experiments? Edouard Machery joins Igor and Charles to explain the principles of experimental philosophy, the surprising geography of wisdom, and why we should be skeptical about trusting science too much. Igor digs into what's universal vs what's local about how we think, Edouard explains why bad habits keep creeping into research, and Charles wonders if philosophy can support wise decisions around ordering another glass of wine when out with friend
#61
Nov 10, 2024 · 1 hr 8 min
61: Beyond Bias: Group Identity, Wisdom, and the Climate Crisis (with Leaf Van Boven and David Sherman)
Can our political identities get in the way of wise action, even on existential issues like climate change? Leaf Van Boven and David Sherman join Igor and Charles to unpack how we perceive environmental policy through the lenses of group identity and social norms, revealing how misperceptions fuel inaction. Igor considers how group beliefs can override personal values, Leaf explores the power of asking, “What if I’m wrong?”, David suggests we may be following louder voices over wiser ones, and C
#60
Oct 20, 2024 · 1 hr 13 min
60: Wisdom, Love, and the Lexical Fallacy (with Alan Fiske)
Why do we have such a hard time figuring out what we’re feeling? Alan Fiske joins Igor and Charles to unravel the mystery of emotions, revealing why your gut feeling might not be as clear-cut as you think. Drawing from his research into Kama Muta—a heartwarming rush of connection—and his critiques of how we label emotions, Alan sheds light on why most of us are pretty terrible at naming what we feel. Igor tackles the complexities of universal emotions, Alan shares why cultural differences make t
#59
Sep 23, 2024 · 49 min
59: Shaping Reality and Relationships: The Science of Connection and Expectation (with David Robson)
Can our expectations about ourselves and others reshape our lives? Science writer David Robson returns to explore how our expectations don’t just change personal outcomes—they influence how we connect with others. Drawing from his books The Laws of Connection and The Expectation Effect, David reveals the hidden psychology behind social interactions and how our misconceptions about what others think can hold us back. Igor delves into how expectations can foster or hinder meaningful relationships,
#58
Nov 2, 2023 · 49 min
58: The Social Robots are Coming! (with Kerstin Dautenhahn)
Can we create wise robots? Kerstin Dautenhahn joins Igor and Charles to dive into the intriguing world of social robots, the finer points of “Robotiquette,” and the potential role such robots can play in supporting therapeutic treatments. Igor reflects on the limits of robot-based wisdom, Kerstin reveals the potential of Generative AI like ChatGPT to generate false information about her own professional identity, and Charles considers the perils of socially awkward machines. Welcome to Episode 5
#57
Oct 7, 2023 · 1 hr 3 min
57: The Epic Challenge of Knowing Thyself (with David Dunning)
Can we ever really know ourselves, or are we destined to always make overly optimistic self-assessments? David Dunning joins Igor and Charles to discuss the Dunning-Kruger effect, the importance of asking the right questions, why arriving at an accurate view of ourselves is so challenging, and the implications for teaching, medicine, and even scientific research. Igor explores the possible reemergence of group assessments in education as a result of advances in AI, David shares why conversations
#56
Aug 29, 2023 · 50 min
56: Awe Reloaded (with Dacher Keltner)
Have we overlooked a major source of awe, right under our collective noses? Dacher Keltner returns to the On Wisdom studio to discuss his new book "Awe: The New Science of Everyday Wonder and How It Can Transform Your Life", the power of moral beauty, the desire for connection, and the importance of wandering. Igor suggest that awe can also entail feelings of terror, Dacher reflects on the perils of awe being used against us, and Charles shares his experience of an awe walk-around-the-bloc. Welc
#55
Aug 5, 2023 · 1 hr 4 min
55: Wise of the Machines (with Sina Fazelpour)
How can we make AI wiser? And could AI make us wiser in return? Sina Fazelpour joins Igor and Charles to discuss the problem of bias in algorithms, how we might make machine learning systems more diverse, and the thorny challenge of alignment. Igor considers whether interacting with AIs might help us achieve higher levels of understanding, Sina suggests that setting up AIs to promote certain values may be problematic in a pluralistic society, and Charles is intrigued to learn about the opportuni
#54
May 30, 2023 · 49 min
54: Emotions Are Not What You Think (with Lisa Feldman Barrett )
What actually are “emotions” and how are they made? Lisa Feldman Barrett joins Igor and Charles to discuss what we’ve got right and what we’ve got completely wrong about the nature of our emotional lives. Igor grapples with the idea that red apples aren’t necessarily red, Lisa shares that anger doesn’t always look like anger, and Charles learns that a racing heartbeat can be interpreted in fundamentally different ways. Welcome to Episode 54.
#53
Apr 10, 2023 · 59 min
53: Moral Reframing and The Science of Political Persuasion (with Robb Willer)
How can you persuade someone who disagrees with you on everything? In this episode, we discover the secrets of political persuasion with Robb Willer, a leading expert on political persuasion and moral reframing. Igor grills Robb on the ethics of activism in social science, Robb defends his mission to make a difference in the world, and Charles is amazed to find out that he can fix his misperceptions with a few simple tricks. Don’t miss this inspiring and ground-breaking conversation that will tr
#52
Jan 5, 2023 · 55 min
52: World Wide Wisdom (with Deepak Ramola)
Imagine gathering hard-earned lessons from survivors of human trafficking in Nepal, middle school children in Afghanistan, refugees in Europe, and even a man who has witnessed over 12,000 deaths. Deepak Ramola has been on such a lesson-gathering mission for a while, and he joins Igor and Charles to discuss the life lessons he has collected, who gets to define moral behaviour, and how we might change our culture to encourage more perspective-taking. Igor highlights the challenge of stepping outsi
#51
Nov 16, 2022 · 57 min
51: Tricky Colleagues and Contagious Emotions (with Tessa West)
How do we respond wisely to foolish behaviour in the workplace? Tessa West joins Igor and Charles to talk about the most common types of ‘jerks at work’ - including the bulldozer, the credit stealer, and the gaslighter, discussing what drives such unhelpful behaviour, and how best to deal with it. Igor explores the different ways we can respond to uncertainty in the workplace, Tessa suggests that we’re surprisingly nice to moral violators, and Charles learns the importance of building in ‘affect

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