Metamodern Meaning

Brendan Graham Dempsey

Brendan Graham Dempsey interviews leading thinkers in the metamodernism, integral, syntheist, GameB, and other communities about topics related to meaning-making and spirituality in today's world. www.BrendanGrahamDempsey.com

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21 episodes
Avg 1 hr 13 min
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Sunday · 1 hr 17 min
STAGES vs. Hierarchical Complexity w/ Alexander Love
Alexander Love offers a developmental tour through his version of the STAGES model, from Concrete to Subtle to Metaware tiers. Along the way, I make comparisons/contrasts to the developmental models based on hierarchical complexity. We discuss the content/structure distinction, the idea of a "center of gravity," as well as the unique contributions Alexander has made to the STAGES presentation. 0:00 Introduction0:55 Content vs. Structure: On Not Reducing Models to Typologies8:06 What Note is Your Piano? No One's "At" a Stage12:44 Constructing the World: What of Reality is Given?18:04 Concrete, Subtle, Metaware vs. Actions, Representations, Abstraction28:41 Capacity and Context36:41 Evolution's Engine46:35 Purely Structural vs. Holistic or Synthetic Models of Development53:44 The Metaware Tier1:07:16 Alexander's Contribution1:11:02 Scoring STAGES Data for Hierarchical Complexity? 1:12:46 How Do We Use Models Well1:16:49 Conclusion Alexander M. Love, MCC, M.Ac. is an internationally recognized facilitator, coach, author, and acupuncturist whose work lives at the intersection of human development, contemplative wisdom, and deep transformational work. He is a Master Certified Coach (ICF), a certified STAGES scorer and developmental coach through Stages International. At the Newfield Network, he serves as Director of Curriculum Development and Senior Facilitator. He also holds a master’s degree in acupuncture from the Academy for Five Element Acupuncture. Alexander is the creator of the Lumina Process — a developmentally informed parts work modality that helps people work skillfully with shadow, shift their relationship to pain, and root more deeply in wholeness. He is also the author of The Evolutionary Gestures Trilogy, a mythopoetic work of magic realist memoir that explores the sacred gap between self and world, introduces a distinctive developmental vision, and opens toward post-tragic possibility. Over two decades, he has facilitated more than fifteen thousand hours of life-changing work with individuals and groups. Get full access to Brendan Graham Dempsey at brendangrahamdempsey.substack.com/subscribe
August 17 · 38 min
The Ethos of Metamodern Spirituality
What if “The Absolute” is always relative? What if “The Universal” is always contingent? What if our apprehensions of the Ultimate are best expressed as partial apprehensions with their own limits? What if we take “doubt” as an essential component to the fabric of reality itself? Would this be a more properly “nondual” approach to spiritual intuitions? Here I try to articulate my thoughts on a “postmetaphysical spirituality” as articulated by influences like Layman Pascal and Bruce Alderman. What do you think? Get full access to Brendan Graham Dempsey at brendangrahamdempsey.substack.com/subscribe
August 6 · 1 hr 26 min
Nietzsche, All Too Nietzsche by Layman Pascal
In this book launch deep-dive, Layman Pascal talks about "Nietzsche, All Too Nietzsche" -- the second volume of his Moustache Trilogy -- unpacking what and why the book is. We explore Nietzsche's worldview, its evolutionary developmental essence, and how his thought can be read as proto-metamodern (as well as modern and postmodern!). Who was the Alpine Sage? Madman or mystic -- or both/and? What do Nietzsche's reflections on decadence and mythos have to teach us about today? Get full access to Brendan Graham Dempsey at brendangrahamdempsey.substack.com/subscribe
August 2 · 1 hr 5 min
Xenotheology & Personal Myth w/ [M] Dudeck and Javi Acevedo
Artists [M] Dudeck and Javi Acevedo share their work on creatively constructing a metamodern art religion. They walk us through a holy book of personal myth---Xenotheology: The Transmedial Scriptures---discussing the process as part of the broader performance of mythopoetic meaning-making. Filmed during the metamodern spirituality lab exploring "sacred art," we talk about the genesis of the project, its personal and cultural significance, what it means and what comes next. Get full access to Brendan Graham Dempsey at brendangrahamdempsey.substack.com/subscribe
July 15 · 1 hr 16 min
The Physics of Meaning w/ Artemy Kolchinsky
Can we account for meaning and value in terms of thermodynamics and information theory? Complex systems thinker Artemy Kolchinsky thinks so. He joins me to explain how we can make the idea of “meaning” tractable in rigorous formal terms by filling in what’s been missing from classic information theory about what information is intrinsically meaningful for an entity. We discuss his seminal co-authored paper with David Wolpert on semantic information, then explore connections to John Vervaeke’s relevance realization model, learning, and AI. We also consider how this framework relates to evolutionary theory and the challenges of scaling it to measure meaning across various levels of complexity. 0:00 Introduction0:56 What is Meaning in Information Theoretic Terms?12:17 Measuring Meaning18:14 Meaningful Information and Relevance Realization26:33 Learning and Viability40:29 Meaning and AI Alignment48:58 Studying How Meaning Scales54:11 Semantic Information, Evolution, and Normativity1:05:23 Operationalizing Semantic Information Theory1:14:18 Conclusion Get full access to Brendan Graham Dempsey at brendangrahamdempsey.substack.com/subscribe
July 11 · 1 hr 8 min
91. Evolving Evolutionary Spirituality w/ Steve McIntosh
Post-postmodern spiritual writer Steve McIntosh discusses his journey from the progressive spirituality scene of the 70s into the Spiral Dynamics and Integral scenes of the 90s and early 2000s, then his own philosophical development from there into the emerging forms that evolutionary spirituality is taking today. In the middle of all that, we go deep into the different approaches the current scene is exploring in terms of re-thinking value and meaning as intrinsic aspects of reality, comparing perspectives on this important topic. The conversation concludes with an assessment of the still rather fractured state of the contemporary movement and the imagined benefits of pluralistic cooperation toward shared goals of cultural transformation. 0:00 Introduction1:40 Steve’s Story up to Integral Consciousness (2007)11:43 Steve’s Story from Then to Now21:29 The Nature of the Emerging Worldview25:01 Value vs. Entropy in Cosmic Evolution36:24 The Metaphysics of Meaning: What is the Origin of Value?45:46 Transcendent vs. Immanent, Static vs. Relational Accounts54:48 The Evolution of Evolutionary Spirituality1:07:22 Conclusion Get full access to Brendan Graham Dempsey at brendangrahamdempsey.substack.com/subscribe
June 26 · 1 hr 6 min
90. Modern vs. Postmodern (vs. Metamodern) Philosophy w/ Stephen Hicks
90. Modern vs. Postmodern (vs. Metamodern) Philosophy w/ Stephen Hicks Philosopher and professor Dr. Stephen Hicks returns for a discussion about integrating critiques of the modern project and the Enlightenment ideals on which it is based. Are postmodern challenges already contained within modern philosophy or do they represent a dialectical shift beyond it in some meaningful way? Is postmodernism defined by its skepticism or by the nature of the problems it poses? Is the modern narrative of Progress undermined by the reality of the global metacrisis or can modernity self-correct? A spirited discussion exploring these questions from a modern (Hicks) vs. metamodern (Dempsey) perspective.0:00 Introduction0:42 The Quality of Modern Enlightenment Thought7:14 Where is the Dialectic? Integrating Critiques of Modernity20:27 The Question of Epistemic Pluralism35:38 The Question of Power-Knowledge and Cultural Relativism45:35 Modern Progress and the Metacrisis1:00:27 The Modern Individual vs. a Relational World1:05:39 Conclusion Get full access to Brendan Graham Dempsey at brendangrahamdempsey.substack.com/subscribe
June 23 · 1 hr 32 min
Metamodern Mission (w/ Rufus Pollock)
Rufus Pollock of Life Itself explains what Life Itself is about before we dive into a deep and rich conversation about the heart of this new movement we're a part of that's dedicated to a different orientation to value and meaning. What is distinctly core and emergent about this new approach and way of seeing the world? Rufus speaks eloquently about this, articulating the spirit of a Second Renaissance with beauty and emotion. 0:00 Introduction1:47 What is 'Life Itself'?31:24 What are the Reeeeeeal Deep Structures?1:01:05 A New Kind of Deep Meaning Focused on the Primacy of Being1:27:15 Conclusion Get full access to Brendan Graham Dempsey at brendangrahamdempsey.substack.com/subscribe
June 18 · 1 hr 8 min
89. Complexifying Identity w/ God'swill Osa
God'swill Osa joins me to talk about his doctoral work exploring identity-formation and group consciousness, specifically in the American political context. We discuss the idea of political group consciousness and the significance of individuation and self-awareness for moving beyond the simplistic binaries of culture war acrimony. How does the current system hijack identity concerns for political gain and what healthier, more adaptive ways of thinking about identity are possible?0:00 Introduction1:00 Identity and Group Consciousness7:45 Individuation and the Complexification of Identity14:30 Who Are You When? Identity and Context18:56 Survival Strategies vs. Self-Awareness25:51 The Political-Identity-Industrial Complex34:30 Bottom-Up vs. Top-Down Influences: The Better and Worse Angels of Our Nature42:41 Adaptive Diversity, Fluid Identity53:46 Saving the American Experiment1:06:51 Conclusion Get full access to Brendan Graham Dempsey at brendangrahamdempsey.substack.com/subscribe
#88
Aug 13, 2025 · 1 hr 3 min
88. Spiritual Naturalist Society (w/ Daniel Strain and Alexander Cheruk)
The Spiritual Naturalist Society is for folks exploring spirituality beyond supernaturalism. Here I'm joined by Daniel Strain and Alex Cheruk to discuss the origins and goals of this awesome organization. 0:00 Introduction 1:35 What is Spiritual Naturalism? 17:22 The Role of Community 22:29 Daniel and Alex's Stories 44:09 What is the Spiritual Naturalist Society? 53:15 Can Christianity Naturalize? 59:15 How to Get Involved 1:02:50 Conclusion Learn more about about The Spiritual Naturalist Society here: https://www.snsociety.org/ Get full access to Brendan Graham Dempsey at brendangrahamdempsey.substack.com/subscribe
#87
Aug 6, 2025 · 1 hr 17 min
87. Development & Philosophies of the Good (w/ Cheryl Armon)
Developmental researcher Dr. Cheryl Armon discusses her work on the way different philosophical conceptions of the good life relate to psychological development. 0:00 Introduction 1:38 The Complexification of Value 8:03 The 5 Philosophical Orientations: 13:07 Hedonism: Classical 22:24 Hedonism: Social 29:54 Perfectionism: Functionalist 41:22 Perfectionism: Unitarianist 52:35 Perfectionism: Progressivist 1:06:49 Are Some Orientations More Common among Higher Levels of Development? 1:11:23 What Are the Next Steps for this Line of Research? 1:15:52 Conclusion Get full access to Brendan Graham Dempsey at brendangrahamdempsey.substack.com/subscribe
#86
Jul 22, 2025 · 1 hr 17 min
86. A Brief History of God (w/ Nish Dubashia)
Nish Dubashia walks through his new book, A Brief History of God: From Nature Spirits to Cosmic Consciousness, the newest offering from Sky Meadow Press. After laying out his framework for religion as a story of the self's aspiration to reunite with Spirit, Nish goes through the major stages of religion's evolution, from humanity's tribal origins to the rise of polytheism in early agricultural civilizations to the Axial Age transformation of transcendence to the modern shift to materialism and the postmodern emphasis on pluralistic harmony. We then explore post-postmodern forms of religiosity as an integral perspective before Nish's concluding speculations on the future of spirituality. 0:00 Introduction 1:12 A Brief History of 'A Brief History of God' 6:11 Religion's Archetypal Story: The Dance of Self and Spirit 11:25 Stage 1. The Beginning of Spiritual Awareness 16:11 Stage 2. The Rise of Individualism 25:27 Stage 3. Tradition and the Search for Order 34:08 Stage 4. Science and the Quest for Truth 41:59 Stage 5. The Path to Harmony 53:17 Stage 6. Bridging Perspectives 1:00:53 Stage 7. Holistic Spirituality 1:09:41 The Future of Spirituality Link for the book: https://www.amazon.com/Brief-History-God-Spirits-Consciousness/dp/B0FH28Q63K/ Get full access to Brendan Graham Dempsey at brendangrahamdempsey.substack.com/subscribe
#85
May 21, 2025 · 1 hr 15 min
85. MindLog: A Revolution in Tracking Development (w/ Theo Dawson)
Dr. Theo Linda Dawson, founder of Lectica, Inc., discusses the launch of MindLog, an unprecedented developmental tracking tool that charts the hierarchical complexification of skill capacities using high-precision Lectical scoring. She explains what it does and how it works before we dive into its two major applications for educators and for adult learners. 0:00 Introduction 1:05 What is MindLog? 5:51 Operationalizing Cognitive-Developmental Theory MindLog for Educators 14:23 Motivating Students for Growth 20:13 Teaching Informed by Classroom Developmental Data 30:52 How to Get Involved MindLog for Adults 33:44 A Tool for Tracking Your Development 37:16 Opportunity (and Pitfalls) for Coaching Integration 42:11 "What Level You At, Bro?" Dangers of Identifying with Your Score 46:04 Developing Our Relationship to Development 50:02 Tracking Development in Different Skills 54:14 Misuse Cases 57:31 How the Data is Used 1:03:10 Prospects of Revolutionizing Our Understanding of the Mind 1:06:33 The Time Has Come 1:09:57 Course Offerings: FOLA, LAP-1, ViP MindLog will be launching in beta in June for those interested to get a glimpse of this cutting-edge technology. You can find more about MindLog, as well as the courses mentioned, at Lectica.org Get full access to Brendan Graham Dempsey at brendangrahamdempsey.substack.com/subscribe
#84
May 11, 2025 · 1 hr 20 min
84. Returning Value to Education & Culture (w/ Brad Kershner)
Educator and philosopher Brad Kershner joins me to discuss the crisis facing our civilizational frameworks and educational institutions, with considerations of what the path out of this cul-de-sac looks like and how we get there. 0:00 Introduction 3:54 Designing a World for Value 13:58 A Trans-Partisan Issue 20:03 The Modern Breakdown of Value 32:19 The Failure of the Postmodern Response 38:38 Metamodernism and/or Perennialism 48:01 The Multi-Dimensional Nature of Value Alignment 52:15 An Evolutionary Story 1:00:04 Epistemic Humility and an Embodied Taste for Wisdom 1:14:38 The Value of Attention Check out Brad's recent lectures on his YT channel @bradkershner52 Get full access to Brendan Graham Dempsey at brendangrahamdempsey.substack.com/subscribe
#83
Apr 28, 2025 · 1 hr 25 min
83. The Ethics of Self-Organization (w/ Anna Riedl)
How do we do the most good? Answers popular in the Rationality and effective altruism spaces can be helpful in some ways, but could also be radically misframing the issue in others. Here Anna Riedl joins me to discuss more of what she means by an "autopoiethics" approach to the topic, which takes seriously the implications of complex systems science for understanding "doing the right thing" in context. 0:00 Introduction 1:51 Autopoiethics 5:34 On "Doing the Right Thing" at Different Scales 11:01 Metamodern Ethics beyond the "View from Nowhere" 17:01 The Normative Primacy of Self-Maintenance 20:55 The Relation of Self to Others 28:56 Autopoiethics and Intersubjectivity: The Other in the Self 34:58 Does Complexity Have Intrinsic Value? 40:17 Complexify Self to Complexify Other 47:21 Your Starbucks Receipt and Schindler's List 51:20 Moral Foundations Theory and Opponent Processing 58:36 Ethics and Relevance Realization 1:05:42 Bottom Up or Top Down? A Counter-Argument from Emergent Causality 1:17:29 Summing Up 1:23:47 Conclusion Get full access to Brendan Graham Dempsey at brendangrahamdempsey.substack.com/subscribe
Apr 17, 2025 · 38 min
82. Human Transformation in a Time of Metacrisis (w/ Boaz Feldman)
Boaz Feldman joins me to talk about an important conference he's helped to organize at Harvard. The Education for Flourishing Conference, AKA Human Transformation in a Time of Metacrisis, is happening at the Harvard Graduate School of Education on Friday, May 2nd, followed the next day by the Unconference featuring workshops, panels, and opportunities for further connection. 0:00 Introduction 1:21 Boaz's Background 3:26 Overview of the Conference and Unconference 8:21 The Liminal Coming to the Center: Realizing Metamodern Paradigm Change 15:08 Setup to a Second Renaissance 18:54 Itinerary and Speakers 25:03 Brendan's Offering for the Unconference 28:51 Is This for You? 36:31 From Thinking to Doing Link to conference info: https://news.lifeitself.org/p/education-for-flourishing-conference Get full access to Brendan Graham Dempsey at brendangrahamdempsey.substack.com/subscribe
#81
Apr 3, 2025 · 1 hr 8 min
81. Universal Selection Theory (w/ Gary Cziko)
I'm joined by professor Gary Cziko, author of Without Miracles: Universal Selection Theory and the Second Darwinian Revolution, to discuss the universal learning process driving adaptive complexification across cosmic scales. We get into the issue of "puzzles of fit" and how they've tended to be accounted for, the scope and power of selectionist theories for understanding evolution and knowledge generation, and relationships of the theory to a number of important topics, including how we make meaning in life. 0:00 Introduction 2:22 Puzzles of Fit and Universal Selection Theory 8:55 A Metatheory for Meaningful Knowledge Generation 16:23 The Universe Learning, & Learning How It Learns 23:02 Transcending Constraints of Knowledge Structures 31:22 History of the Theory 40:31 Adjusting Experience for Meaning 47:17 Piaget and Universal Selection Theory 55:52 Hegel? 57:08 The Miracle 'Without Miracles' 59:44 The Existential Basis of Purpose 1:06:27 Conclusion Get full access to Brendan Graham Dempsey at brendangrahamdempsey.substack.com/subscribe
#80
Mar 28, 2025 · 1 hr 10 min
80. Both One and Many (w/ Oliver Griebel)
Oliver Griebel joins me to discuss the topic of the anthology he edited on the metaphysical relationship between the one and the many. Get full access to Brendan Graham Dempsey at brendangrahamdempsey.substack.com/subscribe
#79
Mar 27, 2025 · 1 hr 48 min
79. Perspectives on Evolutionary Spirituality (w/ Tim Freke)
Evolutionary spirituality writer Tim Freke joins me for a live Limicon event to discuss his take on the new form of spirituality emerging in metamodern culture. We explore a few topics together, then open the conversation up for Q&A from the rest of the attendees. Evolution, consciousness, death, mysticism--it's a good ride! Get full access to Brendan Graham Dempsey at brendangrahamdempsey.substack.com/subscribe
#78
Feb 25, 2025 · 1 hr 12 min
78. Metamodernism and Poetic Faiths (w/ Tony Wolf)
Tony Wolf joins me to discuss his new book out from Sky Meadow Press: 'Poetic Faiths: New Religions and Rituals as Works of Living Art, Vol I.' First we tackle the idea of "Poetic Faiths" and what they are before going over what's in this new anthology of interviews with creators of such Poetic Faiths. Tony shares part of his story that led him to this work as well as some of the specifics of his own Poetic Faith, The Mysterium. Finally, we consider the significance and future of this form of spirituality. 0:00 Introduction 2:02 What is a "Poetic Faith"? 15:13 The Anthology 18:53 Poetic Faiths and Metamodern Religion 23:04 Tony's Story: The First of The Three Moments 31:09 Tony's Poetic Faith: The Mysterium 38:51 Mindful Ritual and Serious Symbols 44:02 A Mycelial Network of New Faiths 54:42 The Roles for Creators 1:10:39 Conclusion Get full access to Brendan Graham Dempsey at brendangrahamdempsey.substack.com/subscribe

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