Messy Middlescence

Season 4 Premiere: What Does It Mean to Transform?

It is hard to believe, but today we launch Season 4 of Messy Middlescence with our 63rd episode! As we have done for the past few seasons, we begin by looking back at our respective summers. We describe the highlights and moments that will stay with us as we move into cooler weather and the more structured/scheduled days of fall. We also introduce our new theme of “Transformation” for the upcoming season. We discuss how we landed on this theme, along with some of our reservations and concerns about taking on such a big topic. Much of our conversation revolves around what transformation actually means and the different ways we might explore it in future episodes. Some of the questions we consider include: What is the difference between transition and transformation? Can a transition become a transformation? What are the many ways transformation can occur? Can transformation be negative — and what might that entail? Does our “essential self” change when we transform, or can transformation actually bring us closer to who we truly are? Can we experience an internal transformation that isn't visible to others? Can we transform without “blowing up” our lives? How does self-improvement differ from transformation? Does midlife make transformation easier or more difficult? We also share examples of transformation - or what we think might qualify as transformation - from our own lives and the lives of people we know. Transformation is a big topic to take on as a theme, and we admit we are more than a little intimidated by it. BUT we are also excited and curious to see where it takes us. We hope you will join us on our journey this season as we explore transformation in all its forms. And for this season, at the end of each episode, one of us, or our guest, will share something that is bringing us joy right now. We hope it will encourage all of us to notice a little more of the joy present in our everyday lives.

Little p's (Re-release) and The Power of Small Experiments

As we continue to revisit some earlier episodes of Messy Middlescence this summer, we're bringing back an episode from Season #2 called "Little P's." It explores an idea that seems to keep showing up for us: maybe we don't need to figure out one big Purpose for our lives. Maybe we need to pay closer attention to the smaller things that interest us, bring us joy and are curious about. Tara is currently reading Range by David Epstein, which explores the value of experimenting, trying different things and bringing knowledge and ideas from one area into another. It feels especially relevant today, when there is so much pressure to specialize early and become increasingly good at one particular thing. We encourage our kids to choose their sports, majors and careers, while as adults we can become increasingly comfortable just staying with what we already know and do well. What if, instead, we allowed ourselves to experiment? Particularly during middlescence, when so much in our lives may already be changing, perhaps we don't need to have everything figured out before deciding what comes next. We can try small things, notice what gives us energy and joy, and use that information to guide us. Think of them as little life experiments. In the original episode, Tara and Tina discuss a podcast episode from The Happiness Lab with Dr. Laurie Santos about finding purpose. One of their biggest takeaways was the distinction between finding one big Purpose with a capital P and discovering the many little p purposes that can give our lives more meaning and joy. Finding one big purpose can feel daunting and overwhelming. Instead, what if we paid attention to the things we enjoy doing, the things that make us lose track of time, or even the things we loved when we were younger? Our little p's don't have to change the world, become a career or make us money. They can simply be things that make our lives richer and more enjoyable. In this episode, Tara and Tina discuss: letting go of the pressure to discover one singular purpose; paying attention to the activities, interests and people that fill us up rather than drain us; looking back at childhood interests for clues about what might still bring us joy; using the "spaghetti method" — trying different things and seeing what sticks; giving ourselves, and our children, permission to explore rather than specialize too quickly; finding ways to make room for our little p's even when work and other responsibilities consume much of our time. Perhaps most importantly, we don't have to know where an interest will lead before we pursue it. We can take a class, try a new hobby, pick up the instrument, meet someone new or follow something simply because we're curious. And then pay attention. Did you enjoy it? Did it give you energy? Do you want to do it again? Sometimes the best way to figure out what we want isn't to think about it more. It's to try something and see what happens. What little life experiment(s) would you like to try?

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Err on the Side of Presence (Re-release)

We decided the summer break is an ideal time to re-release some earlier Messy Middlescence episodes. Maybe you are a new listener and unfamiliar with our earlier seasons. Or, perhaps you are a long-time listener but some topics may resonate differently if you choose to re-listen. Our first re-release is the opening episode of Season #2 titled "Err on the Side of Presence". The theme for Season #2 was grief -- in all the different forms it can take and all the different ways it can affect us. The catalyst for this season's theme and opening episode was the very sudden death of a close friend of Tina and her husband. We think this episode has many important messages not just about death and grief but also about living a life full of connection and meaning. Season #2 of Messy Middlescence begins with a heavy and difficult topic: grief. It may seem like an odd choice for a season opener but Tina’s family and community experienced an unexpected and tragic loss just a few weeks ago. It was a personal reminder that these middlescence years are often full of painful and sorrowful events. We may encounter the loss of — not just older family members — but of friends, neighbors or colleagues. It caused us to think deeply and personally about how do we get through difficult times of grief and loss? How do we help people we care about who have suffered a devastating loss? This past January, a guest essay was published in The New York Times titled, “Train Yourself to Always Show Up” by Rabbi Sharon Brous. This essay, which is excerpted from her book, The Amen Effect, made a profound impression on both Tara and Tina. It was an article and topic they had planned to discuss in the future, and in light of the recent personal circumstances, the timing felt right to begin the season with these topics. In this episode, Tina and Tara discuss and explore the beautiful words and ideas from Rabbi Brous’s article, which can act as a guiding light for those in middlescence. These include: the importance of fighting the natural instinct to withdraw - regardless of whether you are the one grieving or the one trying to support someone grieving; the need for community and bearing witness both in joy and in suffering; how losing a friend differs from losing a family member; the loss of rituals and traditions around grief in modern society and its implications for both individuals and communities. This episode is the first of several that will attempt to tackle these difficult and painful topics.

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MM Season 3 Finale: Connection and Reflections

As we wrap up the third season of Messy Middlescence, Tara and Tina take some time to look back on the conversations, guests, and ideas that stayed with us long after the microphones were turned off. When we chose "connection" as our theme for Season 3, we knew it would be broad. What we didn't anticipate was just how many different forms connection would take and how timely the topic seems to be in our lives right now. Throughout the season, we explored connection through friendship, grief, creativity, honest conversation, and the importance of hosting and gathering. Alongside those theme-related discussions, we also covered important and informational topics involving money, long-term care, estate planning, life coaching, and health and fitness. Looking back on our season, we are struck not only by the diversity of our guests and our conversations but also by how deeply connection touches every part of our lives. In this season finale, we reflect on some of our favorite episodes, the conversations that changed us personally, and the ways we've become more intentional about making time for the people who matter most. We also share what surprised us about doing the podcast together, what we've learned from one another over the past three seasons, and what we're hoping to carry with us into the future. As the conversation turns toward summer, we find ourselves talking about something unexpected: the importance of having something to look forward to each day. It doesn't have to be a vacation or a major milestone. Sometimes it's as simple as a walk outside, a good book, dessert after dinner, or time with someone you love. Those small moments of anticipation and connection may be what help create a life that feels rich and meaningful. Thank you for spending another season with us. We hope these conversations bring as much meaning and joy to your life as they as do to ours.

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Shareapy: Real Conversations and Connection

Our season-long theme of “connection” couldn't be more timely. In September of 2025, the Surgeon General declared loneliness and isolation a national epidemic as many people struggle to maintain meaningful social ties. Remote work, social media, and increasing polarization have all contributed to rising loneliness and its impact on both our physical and emotional well-being. For our final interview of the season, we welcome Scott Kelsey and Christine Passo from Shareapy, a platform that blends modern technology with the timeless practice of honest conversation. Through facilitated virtual gatherings, Shareapy creates a space where people can share openly, listen deeply, and build meaningful connection. It is not a substitute for social interaction or clinical therapy. Instead, it offers another way to strengthen our capacity for conversation—and, in doing so, deepen our connection with ourselves and others. Rather than offering advice or trying to solve problems, Shareapy creates a welcoming community where people can be honest without pressure to put on a positive face, explain themselves, or immediately find solutions. Its focus on sharing, listening, and thoughtful conversation helps counter the isolation many of us experience in daily life. In this conversation, we discuss: Scott and Christine's personal journeys and how those experiences shaped the creation and growth of Shareapy; Why so many people feel pressured to say they are "okay" when they are not; How Shareapy creates space for honest conversation and meaningful connection; Why Shareapy resonates so deeply with many people in midlife, especially Generation X; What Shareapy is—and what it is not designed to provide. If you've ever wished for a place where you could simply be yourself, be heard, and know you're not alone, we think you'll find this conversation both encouraging and inspiring.

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"First Best Destiny": A Conversation with Janet Robertson

If you are not a Star Trek fan, you may not recognize the often-quoted line, “Commanding a starship is your first, best destiny. Anything else… is a waste of material.” Spock says this to Captain Kirk in the 1982 film Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. The quote resonates with anyone searching for their true calling. It highlights the importance of discovering the work you are meant to do—where your passions and skills are perfectly aligned. The luckiest of us, find our “first, best destiny” when we are young and have it as a guiding force for our whole lives. But for many of us, the choices we make when we are young are more often guided by conventional paths of advancement and/or societal pressure. Mid-life becomes an opportunity for these individuals to revisit this idea of one’s “first, best destiny” in their life. Our guest today, Janet Robertson, references this quote in our conversation, and in many ways, it captures her midlife journey. A brilliant and accomplished electrical engineer, Janet eventually stepped away from her career to care for her family and home. Later, when she was ready to return to work outside the home, she found herself drawn toward a very different path centered around writing, teaching, and creativity. Janet’s journey to her “first, best destiny” was neither straightforward nor easy and involved many years of exploration, uncertainty and hard work. Although her scientific background remains central to who she is, Janet speaks with real joy and passion about writing, storytelling, teaching, water-color painting and the creative process itself. One of the most beautiful themes from this conversation is Janet’s belief that we are all creatives and that the things we create – whether art, stories, relationships, or even everyday objects – carry meaning and value. Janet’s story is an inspiring and helpful reminder that life is full of second chances to become who we are truly meant to be. Some of the topics discussed today include: Growing up in Texas and the lessons she learned from her family; Her lifelong love of learning; The unexpected joy of finding a writer’s community; Why she believes creativity is sacred and belongs to all of us; The abundance of beauty and art in ordinary places; The emotional and financial realities of stepping away from a traditional career; Retirement, reinvention and the evolution of long-term relationships.

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The Conversations that Matter Most: Estate Planning with Paul Stafford

On a recent walk with a close friend, Tina learned that her friend and her husband had an upcoming appointment to complete their wills. Tina replied how reviewing and updating their wills was something she and her husband wanted to do as well. The friend sheepishly corrected Tina that they were not updating their wills but were actually doing them for the first time. Tina’s friend is in her mid-50’s, highly educated, owns multiple homes and has 3 children in their early 20’s. She explained how they had intended to do their wills since their children were young, but only began the process after pressure from their financial advisor. Tina was surprised they had not drawn up wills before this but only mildly so. By coincidence, Tara and Tina had just finished a conversation a few days earlier with Paul Stafford, a professional estate planner. Tina realized that her friend was the “real-life person” behind the statistics when it comes to estate planning: most of us know this is something we need to do and yet it is so easy to procrastinate and put off doing it. In speaking with Paul, it becomes obvious why this happens. Estate planning is the convergence of 3 topics most people have some difficulties with: money, emotions, and the actual realization that you will die. Still, as Paul states quite clearly, “hope is not a plan”. And everyone – no matter your age, net worth or family– needs some form of an estate plan. The compelling conversation we have with Paul is a little bit practical, a little bit instructional, and extremely motivational. He explains through stories from his own life and decades of professional experiences why it matters to have a say in what happens after you die—and why that clarity is a gift not only to our loved ones but also to yourself. He encourages us to think beyond wills and trusts and ask deeper questions: what has my life meant? What do I hope to pass on? How do I want to care for the people I love after I am gone? What conversations should happen while I still have the chance to have them, Topics discussed in today's episode include: The basic documents every person over 18 should have and the conversations worth having before completing these documents; Why estate planning is not just for wealthy families; What probate is and why many families hope to avoid it; The differences between a will, a revocable (“living”) trust, and an irrevocable trust; Why so many estate plans fail to accomplish what people intended; The reasons to revisit an estate plan created years or even decades ago; How to approach conversations with parents who continue to postpone estate planning; The challenges the digital age creates for families after someone dies; The value of bringing together your accountant, estate planner, financial planner and other advisors; The unique planning considerations that arise when children become legal adults; The deeper questions worth asking: what has my life meant; what do I want to pass on; And how do I want to be remembered. Paul explains that estate planning is ultimately about relationships, legacy and caring for the people we leave behind. The documents matter but they are simply tools that help start important conversations and then hopefully provide guidance to future difficult moments.

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Broken Open: Grief, Healing, and Hope with Linda Henderson

After losing her daughter Andrea in a tragic car accident, Linda Henderson found herself navigating every parent’s worst nightmare. In this deeply moving conversation, Linda shares her journey through grief, love, healing, and hope. A nurse for 37 years, Linda had spent much of her life caring for others through illness and loss. But nothing could have prepared her for the sudden death of her 27-year-old daughter — who was a mother, social worker, writer, animal lover, and deeply loved daughter and sister. Years later, Linda wrote her book, The Road of Love and Hope: The Journey of Child Loss, as a way to share her grief story, honor her daughter’s life, and help others feel less alone in their own grief journey. In the episode, she talks about how writing and sharing her story ultimately became part of her healing. Linda speaks honestly about the early days of grief — the shock, the depression, the inability to function, and the tiny “baby steps” that slowly helped her begin rebuilding her life again. One of the things that stayed with us most was her reminder that healing sometimes starts with incredibly small wins: taking a shower, stepping outside, drinking water, or going for a walk. She also talks about the ways she continues to honor Andrea and keep her part of everyday life — through storytelling, family traditions, gardening, writing, and helping others navigate grief themselves. Rather than “moving on,” Linda shares what it looks like to carry love forward. This conversation felt especially personal and emotional for us. We had already planned to have Linda on the show and had recently finished reading her book when a sixth grader in Tara’s community tragically died in a bike accident. Reading Linda’s story while witnessing another family’s unimaginable loss made this conversation feel heartbreakingly real. As parents, it is impossible not to feel the weight of that kind of unimaginable grief. And yet, despite the heaviness of this topic, there is also so much hope in it. Linda reminds us that grief exists because of love. That healing is not linear and is different for everyone. That helping others can become part of healing ourselves. And that even in brokenness, beauty, meaning, and connection can still be present. Episode Highlights Linda shares the story of losing her daughter Andrea in a tragic car accident The difference between grief “existing” and truly grieving Why grief becomes part of us rather than something we “finish” The importance of tiny achievable steps during deep grief Journaling, counseling, nature, and walking as healing tools How Linda continues to honor Andrea through various rituals and traditions How and why Linda wrote her book, The Road of Love and Hope: The Journey of Child Loss The healing power of helping others and telling our stories How grief changes identity, priorities, and perspective Why love continues long after death

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What An Injury Taught Me In Mid-Life

As we age, we’re often reminded to stay active. And yet, aging also makes us more vulnerable to injuries that can unexpectedly disrupt that effort. Last October, Tina injured her back while traveling. At first, it didn’t seem like a big deal. She had experienced minor back pain before, and it usually resolved with rest. This time was different. What started as a small issue turned into weeks, then months, of persistent pain. Activities she loved—running and strength training—became too painful to continue. She began to wonder if that chapter of her life was behind her. By January, she decided it was time to seek help and began working with a chiropractor. What followed was a slow and often frustrating road to recovery. After three and a half months of consistent work, she is now—very gradually—easing back into her routine. She’s not fully recovered. But she feels hopeful again. More importantly, the experience changed how she thinks about her body, her workouts, and the aging process itself. In today’s episode, Tina shares her recovery journey and the lessons she’s taking with her: • The importance of seeking care sooner rather than later • Following professional guidance, even when progress feels slow • Resisting the urge to self-diagnose through the internet • Staying flexible in how you approach movement during recovery • Listening to your body—really listening • Recognizing that recovery often takes longer as we age • Prioritizing stretching and dynamic warm-ups • Accepting that your body may not be as resilient as it once was—and learning to work with it, not against it Sometimes the hardest part of staying active isn’t pushing forward—it’s learning when to slow down.

Messy Middlescence Talks About Life Coaching

Imagine having someone in your life whose main focus is to help you reach your goals—someone who really listens and supports you along the way. It’s a powerful idea. And it’s exactly what a life or personal coach offers. Most people are familiar with the term “life coach,” but we wondered—how many actually understand what a life coach actually does? And when it might be helpful? Because so many of our conversations here at Messy Middlescence center around transition, change, and reinvention, this felt like an important topic to explore. And, as it turns out, we have our own certified life coach right here. In this episode, Tina interviews Tara about her path into life coaching, what it really looks like in practice, and how it can support people during times of change—or even when you’re not quite sure what you want, but you know something needs to shift. We talk through: Why Tara chose to become a life coach—and the experiences that shaped that decision The differences between a life coach, therapist, and consultant Common situations where coaching can be especially helpful How to find a coach who’s the right fit for you The different specialties within life coaching What Tara has learned—both from her training and from working with her own coaches How coaching sessions are typically structured The role of clarity—understanding what you really want and how to move toward it And why, in an ideal world, everyone might benefit from having a coach.

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Connecting through Games

As we continue our Season 3 theme of connection, we’re talking about something simple that we both enjoy—games. Growing up, some of our most consistent and memorable family moments of connection came from sitting around a table playing cards or a round of Trivial Pursuit. There wasn’t anything particularly elaborate about it (although it sometimes got competitive), but there was something about having a shared activity that made being together feel fun and natural. It feels like games are making a quiet comeback. And maybe that’s because they offer something many of us are craving—a low-effort way to connect in a world that often feels so busy and digital. Games give you something to do while you’re together. They take the pressure off needing to carry the conversation. Whether it’s a quick card game, a weekly trivia night, or something as simple as Jenga or ping pong, they create space for connection in a way that feels light and approachable. In this episode, we talk about the games we’ve loved over the years—both growing up and now with our own families—as well as a few we’re curious to try. We also share what we’ve noticed about how different games fit different groups, moods, and stages of life. Our hope is that this conversation reminds you that connection doesn’t have to be complicated. Sometimes it’s as simple as pulling out a deck of cards and inviting someone to join you.

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Lisa Kramer and the Little Miracles of Change

To us here at Messy Middlescence, when we hear the word “reinvention”, it has a magical connotation to it. We are not sure why. Because when you look closely, reinvention isn’t easy - it involves tremendous work, determination, and a willingness to step into the unknown. Reinvention is a conscious process of transforming one’s life, career or mindset -- or sometimes all three. It requires letting go of what is familiar and comfortable and stepping toward something new without a clear map. The desire to reinvent oneself, one’s mindset or one’s career can happen at any age. Most of us have experienced this desire at some point in our lives and it can be the motivation for significant change. But true reinvention, the kind that leads to meaningful, lasting change, is much more unusual. And perhaps that is where the “magic” comes in. True reinvention requires something deeper than hard work and determination. It asks us to listen to that quiet inner voice, the one that is so often drowned out by fear, societal pressures and existing responsibilities. Learning to hear and trust that voice is what makes real transformation possible. Today we speak with Lisa Kramer, founder and president of Leading with Intention who has followed that inner voice time and again — successfully reinventing her professional life multiple times along the way. In our conversation, Lisa shares her own experiences with reinvention as well as the work she does supporting others through similar transitions. Her recent pivot to retirement coaching focuses on helping individuals and couples design their next chapter with intention and clarity which feels relevant to anyone navigating change. Lisa brings both honesty and wisdom to this conversation. She helps us see that reinvention is both practical and, in its own way, a little bit magical. In this episode, we explore: How Lisa’s background in social work shaped her approach as a coach The role of relationships, connection, and community especially as we age Her experiences navigating the challenges of an aging parent and what supported her most How creating a personal manifesto can offer clarity and direction The idea of “purpose with a little “p” and why it can feel more accessible and fulfilling. The difficulty, and necessity, of letting go of identity at different stages of life Why reinvention is so hard": there is no formula, no clear path and no “instruction manual” How fear and discomfort show up in times of change and why the outcome often surprises us

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Our Earliest Money Memories

Earlier this season, in Episode #44, Tara and Tina interviewed Carl Richards — bestselling author, speaker, and host of the Behavior Gap Radio and 50 Fires podcasts. During that conversation, Tara asked Carl what single question might be most impactful for our audience. Carl suggested: “What is your earliest memory of money?” It’s a question often used by financial advisors to help uncover how early experiences may have shaped someone’s views about money. Carl described it as a simple but powerful way to begin meaningful conversations about money — without stress or conflict. And honestly, it’s also just interesting. Even a little fun. This seemingly simple question can be a gateway to learning more about yourself — or about someone you love. What surprised us most wasn’t just the memories themselves — but the emotions that came with them. Tara, who works as both a financial advisor and life coach, has encountered this question many times in her work. Tina, on the other hand, had never heard it before and had never really considered it. So they decided to explore it together — especially as siblings who grew up in the same household — and share their own earliest money memories and how those experiences may have shaped their attitudes and emotions around money. In this short episode, they discuss: • The emotions intertwined with early money memories — and the lasting impact those emotions can have • The tension between joy and abundance on one hand, and responsibility and respect on the other • How money can become a source of marital tension — and the roles we often bring into relationships such as “spender” or “saver” • The realization that many of our assumptions and beliefs about money are deeply buried and internalized • The social norms around money — and how those norms vary across families and cultures

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Learning about Long Term Care with Victoria Beerer

Tina never could have imagined that Long Term Care (LTC) would be a frequent conversation topic within her social circles. But this past year – it seems to come up time and time again. It makes sense. As we move through middle age, many of us are watching our parents or other loved ones age. We begin to observe firsthand both the benefits of possessing long-term care coverage and the potential risks associated with lacking it. The overall topic of LTC can feel daunting. It touches health, money, independence, and the uncomfortable reality that none of us are immune to aging. It is all too easy to put off thinking about and planning for this stage. It was the result of these recurring conversations with her peers as well as her own ignorance on this topic, that Tina proposed this as an episode for Messy Middlescence. Tara, through her work as a financial planner, knew the perfect person to demystify this topic and answer common questions. Victoria Beerer is the Long Term Care Specialist at Rambart-Hilb Agency, and brings her 15+ years of experience and knowledge with Long Term Care to help us understand what LTC really is, how it works, and what has changed over the past 20 years. Most importantly, Victoria shares why starting the conversation earlier matters more than most of us realize. The information Victoria provides in this episode is both comprehensive and straightforward. Regardless of where LTC is on your radar, you will not regret tuning in for this episode. Topics discussed today include: What Long-Term Care actually covers and what it does not; The difference between mortality (life insurance) and morbidity (LTC) Why underwriting for LTC is often stricter than life insurance and some of the possible reasons people are denied LTC; Traditional vs. hybrid LTC policies — and why products have evolved; What are the 4 key parts to a Long Term Care Policy; When to start the conversation (hint: earlier than you think); Why statistics around LTC can be misleading; The biggest misconceptions (Medicare does not cover extended custodial care) about LTC; How to think about self-funding vs. transferring risk; What happens when one spouse needs care and the other remains at home; Why “something is better than nothing” The benefits of working with a knowledgeable agent The first steps in purchasing a LTC policy

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Favorite Books of 2025

Tara and Tina are big readers. They come from a family of readers and books are always a part of their conversation when they are together. They love to share opinions about books they have read, are reading and hope to read. Last season, Tara and Tina did an episode where they discussed their favorite books of the previous year (episode #24). They had so much fun on that episode they wanted to do it again! So, on today’s episode they discuss the books from 2025 that touched, entertained and had an impact on them – both fiction and nonfiction. They also discuss books they are looking forward to reading in the upcoming year. They hope they inspire you to think about the books you enjoyed this past year as well as take away some additions to your reading list.

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Our Themes for the New Year

There’s something compelling about the idea of a clean slate or fresh start as we begin a new year. Rather than setting long lists of goals or resolutions, many people find that choosing a theme—or a single word—creates a more meaningful and sustainable way to invite change. For the past two seasons of Messy Middlescence, Tara and Tina have shared their personal themes and words for the year ahead, and they continue that tradition in today’s short (but sweet) episode. Together, they reflect on their chosen words and the intentions behind them along with the changes and enrichment they hope it will help bring them throughout the upcoming year.

Fitness, Nutrition and Wellness: A Conversation with Cynthia Conti

Most of us know someone who seems to defy aging – a friend or relative who is around our age -- but appears many years younger and who radiates vitality and good health. We look at them with a mix of admiration and, perhaps, envy. For Tina and Tara, that person is their sister, Cindy, who is the healthiest person they know. Her natural beauty is enhanced by her healthy habits and active lifestyle. Cindy has always had a passion for organic foods, natural remedies and overall wellness but she also has a Master’s in Kinesiology (exercise science) and currently works as a nurse. Tara and Tina thought a conversation with Cindy would be perfect to kick off the first Messy Middlescence episode of 2026. In this age of social media, those of us over 50 are inundated with information about “healthy aging”. However, Tina and Tara believe that listening to the fitness and nutrition routines (and how they have changed with age) from someone they trust could motivate both them and others to make changes in their own routines and lifestyles. The goal here is not just about looking youthful; it is about developing habits which make us feel good and in turn positively affect our overall appearance and energy. Topics discussed today include: Cindy’s background and interests including a Master’s in Kinesiology and a nursing degree; What exactly “Zone 2” is during exercise/workouts and why it becomes so important as we age (particularly for women); Why you might want to consider modifying your exercise routine to include more strength/weight training than high-intensity cardio; The unintentional and intentional changes that occur to our eating habits/diets as we age; How cosmetic dermatology procedures can help aging skin including a discussion of laser treatments such as IPL and BBL; Cindy’s skincare and exercise routines ; The significant impact of stress on our health and the necessity of self-care and how this is unique to each of us (and can change over time); How “steady good sleep” continues to elude most of us in our 50’s; How research continues to upend many of the ideas instilled in us when we were young (such as carbs being good and fats being bad or the importance of high intensity workouts).

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Favorite Things of 2025

It is that time of year when “busyness” abounds. The days are short — and feel even shorter — as our to-do lists loom large. In recognition of the time constraints that December brings, and the natural reflections that come with the close of a year, Tara and Tina bring you a quick and timely episode of their favorite things from 2025. You might remember a similar episode from their first season, and this felt like the perfect moment to do it again. Tara and Tina discuss their favorite things from the past year — the items and small discoveries that genuinely made a positive difference in their lives. They hope this episode nudges you to reflect on — and share — the things that brought you joy in 2025. And if you're curious about any of the items mentioned, you can find links to everything in the show notes on the Messy Middlescence website.

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A Gathering Ritual

In this episode, Tara and Tina explore the longing so many of us feel for a simple gathering ritual — and the very real challenges that keep us from creating one. Inspired by Samin Nosrat’s reflections on the power of regular connection, they talk honestly about hosting anxieties, perfection pressure, and why gathering feels both beautiful and hard. A warm conversation about presence, friendship, and designing rituals that fit real life. Earlier this fall, Tina accidentally found herself following Samin Nosrat’s entire media tour. Nosrat — the author of the bestselling cookbook and Netflix series Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat — has a new cookbook out called Good Things, and by pure coincidence Tina kept stumbling onto interviews, articles, and podcasts about her. What stayed with her wasn’t the recipes. It was the message underneath them. In each interview and article, Nosrat tells the same story with the same message. She describes how after years of work she finally achieved everything she had ever dreamed of with Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat — and yet she was completely miserable. A regularly scheduled dinner party literally saved her life. She learned that gathering the people you care about is essential to a meaningful life. And the focus of her new book is all about bringing people together. Gathering is what is important and needed in our lives — it is not the food, not the table, nor all the little details we can get hung up on. Her eloquent and persuasive advocacy for connecting through regular gatherings is downright compelling. Around the same time, Tara came across an article in The Atlantic titled “Americans Need to Party More,” which stated that “only 4% of Americans attended or hosted a social event on an average weekend or holiday in 2023.” According to the article, this is a 35% decrease since 2004. Both Tina and Tara were shocked by this statistic. And here’s where the tension comes in. We both love the idea of a gathering ritual — something steady, comforting, simple, and woven into the rhythm of our lives. It sounds beautiful and grounding. But when we think about our own schedules, energy levels, families, and the very real anxieties we each have around hosting, it suddenly feels incredibly challenging. We want this… and yet we struggle to make it happen. That tension is at the heart of this episode. It is easy to believe Samin Nosrat’s claim that a regular or ritual gathering can be profoundly life-changing. That is not a hard sell. But the stark reality is that people seem to be socializing less. If that 4% figure is true — why do people not entertain more? What keeps us from opening our homes and inviting those we have connections with (or want to connect with) to gather? Tina and Tara turn those questions on themselves and discuss their own patterns around hosting – what we enjoy, what stresses us out and what gets in the way. They discuss the pressure to “perform” and the beautiful possibility of gathering friends and family without perfection. Some of the topics discussed today include: • how frequently we really entertain friends and family • the parts of hosting we love — and the parts we dread • the sources of anxiety around opening our homes • the time, energy, and logistical constraints that make it hard • the pressure of social media and comparison • why ritualized gatherings used to be more common • the truth behind “perfect is the enemy of good” • and simple, imperfect ways to gather that aren’t dinner parties

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Carl Richards: A Conversation About Money and Mid-Life

Messy Middlescence is thrilled to share their conversation with Carl Richards. Carl who? – you might ask. Tina asked Tara that exact question when Tara – breathless with excitement – informed her over the summer that she had secured an interview with Carl. It turns out Tina did know of him through his 50 Fires podcast (which Tara often refers to here on Messy Middlescence) but was unaware of the VERY BIG DEAL that Carl Richards is in the world of finance/financial advising. When you listen to the interview today, you will quickly understand why. This 27 minute interview is packed with an amazing amount of story-telling, practical advice, and interesting outlooks and ideas. Carl Richards is the beloved “Sketch Guy” from The New York Times, a bestselling author, speaker, and host of Behavior Gap Radio and 50 Fires podcasts. He is also smack in the middle of middle age which is the primary focus of this interview and differentiates our conversation from the many others he has done recently for his new book, Your Money: Reimagining Wealth in 101 Simple Sketches. Tara and Tina discuss with Carl many of the complex yet common issues of mid-life which showcase his financial insights along with his creative (yet often simple) solutions. Carl has a unique perspective on most things which are guaranteed to make you think. Some of the topics covered today include: The most common question Carl receives from successful people as they progress through middle age Carl’s “Project Half Life”; what it is and its value in Carl’s life How those approaching retirement can help themselves feel less “stuck” The concept of having your future (regardless of age) be bigger than your past The importance of having interests/hobbies/connections beyond work before you retire How his advice is often simple but not easy; that sometimes the most difficult part is giving yourself permission to think differently The shifts that mid-life is bringing to Carl The beauty in breaking things down and starting small regardless of the problem The recommended first question to ask those close to you about money And what it really means to live with tension — not trying to solve the mess, but learning to sit within it With wisdom, humor, and humility, Carl reminds us that “money is just a door to meaning,” and that midlife isn’t an ending — it’s an invitation to start again, one small step at a time.

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