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Making Therapy Better

Bruce Wampold, PhD

Making Therapy Better brings together some of the top minds in psychotherapy as well as everyday clinicians to talk about where the field is headed and how we can achieve better mental health care for everyone. www.makingtherapybetter.com

www.carepaths.com

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  • 20 episodes
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  • English

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  • S3 · E11
    April 2 · 54 min

    "Empathy Is More Than Just Words: Why You Shouldn't Ditch Your Therapist for AI" - Anat Perry, Ph.D.

    What is the unique value of psychotherapy in a world where AI can convincingly simulate empathy while delivering evidence-based treatments with better fidelity than many human therapists? In this episode, Bruce Wampold sits down with Dr. Anat Perry -- one of the first and most innovative researchers studying human empathy in comparison with AI-simulated empathy. Together, Bruce and Anat explore: • What empathy actually is (and why it’s more complex than we think) • Which aspects of empathy AI can approximate — and which it cannot • Why “perfect” empathic responses can feel empty • The difference between sounding empathic and being empathic • How AI may reshape loneliness, connection, and trust • Where AI can support therapy — and where human relationship remains essential Whether you’re a clinician, researcher, or simply curious about where psychotherapy is headed, this episode offers a thoughtful look at one of the most important questions facing the field today. 🔔 Don’t forget to like, comment, subscribe, and share — your support helps us keep these conversations going. --- Anat Perry, Ph.D. | Director, Social Cognitive Neuroscience Lab, Hebrew University of Jerusalem; Helen Putnam Fellow, Radcliffe Institute (Harvard); Co-editor of Empathy and Artificial Intelligence: Challenges, Advances and Ethical Considerations Bruce Wampold, Ph.D. | Emeritus Professor, University of Wisconsin–Madison; Author of The Great Psychotherapy Debate --- The Making Therapy Better podcast is brought to you by CarePaths EHR, an electronic health record system designed to help you improve therapy outcomes.https://www.carepaths.com Produced and edited by Kevin Riordan and Geissy Araújo, Ph.D. Intro/outro music by Chris Haugen, free for public use. --- Follow the Making Therapy Better project: 🌐 Website: www.makingtherapybetter.com 📺 YouTube: /@makingtherapybetter 📸 Instagram: /making_therapy_better 📘 Facebook: /makingtherapybetter 🐦 Twitter: /therapybetter 💼 LinkedIn: /9223245 --- 02:53 - Therapists vs Bot Therapy 04:55 - Three Part Empathy 08:06 - Chatbot Backlash 10:08 - What Bots Can Mimic 15:35 - Genuine Care Matters 18:24 - Tools vs Connection 21:52 - Hybrid Therapy Future 24:01 - Loneliness and Incentives 26:22 - Empathy On Demand 27:35 - Loneliness and Social Maps 29:52 - Social Skills Atrophy 31:39 - Doubting Genuine Messages 33:58 - Trust Stories Across Generations 37:21 - Training Social Skills With AI 42:29 - Authenticity and Earbud Coaching 45:42 - Books, Movies, and Bot Empathy 48:50 - Attachment and Blurred Reality 50:09 - Responsible AI And Farewell 53:49 Sponsor Care Paths EHR --- #psychotherapy #AI #TherapySkills #MentalHealth #Counseling #ClinicalPsychology #Empathy #TherapistTraining #BruceWampold #MakingTherapyBetter

  • S3 · E10
    February 25 · 56 min

    "Can Speech Predict Psychiatric Diagnoses? How Computational Psychiatry Is Changing the Field" - Natalia Mota, MD, PhD

    Can the structure of speech reveal where a psychotic episode is heading? In this episode, Bruce talks with computational psychiatrist Natalia Mota, MD, PhD, about her research showing how the structure of speech can help differentiate between emerging psychotic disorders earlier and more precisely than traditional methods alone. Using graph theory and natural language processing, Natalia and her team transform speech into “word graphs” that mathematically measure thought fragmentation and narrative connectedness. In one striking study with first-episode psychosis patients, for example, Natalia successfully predicted emerging schizophrenia versus bipolar disorder with over 90% accuracy -- simply by analyzing how participants described a recent dream. Together, Bruce and Natalia discuss: • The broader clinical implications of computational psychiatry for early detection and intervention • The classic debate between subjective clinical judgment versus statistical prediction, and why both approaches are needed • Why Natalia’s methodology is not black-box AI • How education and socioeconomic factors shape language • Why technology must "keep the human in the loop” • What speech fragmentation reveals about dementia • The adolescent mental health crisis and social contagion This conversation explores a powerful idea: There are identifiable structures within natural speech patterns — and these structures can reveal a goldmine of hidden clinical information. If you care about psychotherapy, early intervention, computational psychiatry, or the future of psychiatric diagnosis, this episode will challenge how you think about listening. ----- 🔔 Don’t forget to like, comment, subscribe, and share — your support helps us keep these conversations going. **** Natalia Mota, MD, PhD is a psychiatrist and neuroscientist with a focus on creating novel quantitative methods to measure the flow of thoughts, and to differentiate between causes of psychosis and dementia. Her current research examines speech in psychosis, wake–sleep cycles, and school-based declarative learning. **** Bruce Wampold, PhD is a psychologist and leading psychotherapy researcher known for his work on the contextual model of psychotherapy and the science of therapeutic relationships. His research explores how and why psychotherapy works, integrating clinical insight with rigorous empirical methods. -- The Making Therapy Better podcast is brought to you by CarePaths EHR, an electronic health record system designed to help you improve therapy outcomes.https://www.carepaths.com Follow the Making Therapy Better project: 🌐 Website: www.makingtherapybetter.com 📺 YouTube: /@makingtherapybetter 📸 Instagram: /making_therapy_better 📘 Facebook: /makingtherapybetter 🐦 Twitter: /therapybetter 💼 LinkedIn: /9223245 Produced and edited by Kevin Riordan and Geissy Araújo. Intro/outro music by Chris Haugen, free for public use. 00:00 Bruce intro 01:35 Bruce: Kahneman's work on confidence vs. accuracy 04:33 Bruce: The practical relevance of computational psychiatry and Natalia’s work 06:39 What Is "Computational Psychiatry?" 12:28 Graph Theory for thought disorders 16:44 Research findings 23:18 Predicting clinical trajectories after first-episode psychosis 30:58 Beyond "black box AI" 35:22 Effects of culture and life experience on language usage 40:25 Applications for dementia and other disorders 45:18 Language, social bonds, and mental health 51:22 Closing remarks 55:11 Outro and farewell

  • S3 · E9
    January 20 · 59 min

    "A Psychiatry Failure? The Serotonin Theory of Depression Lacks Evidence" - Joanna Moncrieff, M.D.

    Is depression really caused by a chemical imbalance — or is that one of the most enduring myths in modern psychiatry? For decades, the serotonin theory of depression has shaped how mental health is explained, treated, and marketed to the public. But what does the science actually show — and why does evidence that challenges this narrative provoke such intense reactions? In this provocative episode, our host Bruce Wampold sits down with Joanna Moncrieff, M.D., professor of critical and social psychiatry at University College London and a founding member of the Critical Psychiatry Network. Joanna has spent more than 30 years researching psychiatric diagnosis, antidepressant medications, and the sociocultural forces that shape modern mental health care. She is the author of well over 60 academic articles and several books, including her newest release, Chemically Imbalanced: The Making and Unmaking of the Serotonin Myth. Together, Bruce and Joanna discuss: • What the scientific evidence does, and does not, reveal about the connection between serotonin and depression • What antidepressant trials really show about efficacy and placebo effects • Emotional numbing, clinical significance, and real-world prescribing practices • The social, political, and professional forces that influence psychiatric research and practice • Why challenges to the chemical imbalance narrative have been so controversial • What it means to understand depression as a human response to life, rather than a brain disease ---- 🔔 Don’t forget to like, comment, subscribe, and share! Your support helps us keep these conversations going. --- Bruce Wampold, Ph.D. | Emeritus Professor, University of Wisconsin–Madison; author of The Great Psychotherapy Debate; one of the most influential psychotherapy researchers alive today. Joanna Moncrieff, M.D. | Professor of Critical and Social Psychiatry at University College London; leading figure in the Critical Psychiatry Network; author of Chemically Imbalanced and multiple prior books examining antidepressants and psychiatric theory. --- This episode was produced and edited by Geissy Araújo, Ph.D. and Kevin Riordan. —— The Making Therapy Better podcast is brought to you by CarePaths EHR, an electronic health record system designed to help you improve therapy outcomes. [https://www.carepaths.com](https://www.carepaths.com) --- 00:00 Introduction 00:45 Meet Dr. Joanna Moncrieff 02:10 The serotonin myth: Unpacking the evidence 09:57 Antidepressants and the placebo effect 18:40 The sociology of psychiatry and antidepressants 31:06 Understanding depression: Biological vs. psychological perspectives 32:57 Clinical trials vs. real-world practice 35:11 The role of the human relationship in depression treatment 37:03 Evolutionary perspectives on depression 40:26 Challenging the serotonin theory of depression 47:03 Future of depression treatments: Psychedelics and beyond 54:57 Reframing depression: A human reaction to life's challenges 58:30 Conclusion and final thoughts ----------------------- #MentalHealth #Depression #Psychiatry #Antidepressants #serotonin #CriticalPsychiatry #Psychotherapy #BruceWampold #JoannaMoncrieff #MakingTherapyBetter #MentalHealthScience Intro/outro music by Chris Haugen, free for public use.

  • S3 · E8
    Dec 3, 2025 · 1 hr 6 min

    "Key Factors That Make Psychotherapy TRULY Effective" - With Bruce Wampold, Ph.D.

    Is Cognitive Behavioral Therapy REALLY superior to Humanistic or Psychodynamic approaches? According to the scientific evidence, what factors ACTUALLY drive the change process, and what skills can therapists strengthen to get better outcomes? In this episode of The Making Therapy Better Podcast, our host Dr. Bruce Wampold takes the guest seat in a lively conversation with a group of young Brazilian psychologists who are at the heart of a contentious debate gaining national attention in Brazil: Geissy Araújo, Ph.D., Maurício Majolo, M.S., Lucas Cardoso, and Mateus Souza, M.S. Together, they discuss: - The common arguments that certain theoretical orientations are superior to others - Whether these claims are supported by the scientific evidence - What the data actually reveal about the change process in psychotherapy - The balance between theory, evidence, and human connection - The path toward a more productive conversation about improving psychotherapy training and outcomes in Brazil and around the world Bruce reminds us that therapy is not merely a set of techniques — it’s a social and relational healing practice rooted in empathy, collaboration, and meaning. ---- Be sure to also check out our related episode where Bruce and Scott Miller discuss some of these topics in greater detail: #21: "What Makes Therapy Work?" - Scott Miller, PhD interviews Bruce Wampold, PhD (S3, E1): https://youtu.be/A0stmKy3Jnc?si=akkCENIxGBlL3Lkk 🔔 Don’t forget to like, comment, subscribe, and share — your support helps us keep these conversations going. ---- Bruce Wampold, Ph.D. | Emeritus Professor, University of Wisconsin–Madison; Author of "The Great Psychotherapy Debate: The Evidence for What Makes Psychotherapy Work" -- and among the most influential psychotherapy researchers alive today. Produced and edited by Geissy Araújo, Ph.D. and Kevin Riordan. —— The Making Therapy Better podcast is brought to you by CarePaths EHR, an electronic health record system designed to help you improve therapy outcomes.https://www.carepaths.com Follow the Making Therapy Better project: 🌐 Website: www.makingtherapybetter.com 📺 YouTube: /@makingtherapybetter 📸 Instagram: /making_therapy_better 💼 LinkedIn: /9223245 ---- 00:00 Introduction to the Episode and Guest 03:25 Bruce's Journey into Psychotherapy 08:24 The Role of Personal Experience in Therapy 13:04 Common Factors in Psychotherapy 19:25 The Importance of Therapist-Patient Relationship 27:19 Cultural and Contextual Considerations in Therapy 36:08 Impact of Culturally Adapted Therapy 38:11 Debates on Empirically Supported Treatments 39:47 The Evolution of Evidence-Based Practice 42:10 The Essence of Psychotherapy 44:10 Future of Therapist Training 47:26 Science Communication in Psychotherapy 49:25 Measurement-Based Care and Therapist Improvement 01:00:22 Advice for New Therapists 01:03:08 The Role of AI and Technology in Therapy 01:04:59 Conclusion and Final Thoughts ---- #Psychotherapy #TherapySkills #Counseling #HumanisticTherapy #EmotionFocusedTherapy #PluralisticTherapy #cognitivebehavioraltherapy #TherapistTraining #ClinicalSupervision #BruceWampold #MakingTherapyBetter #MentalHealth Intro/outro music by Chris Haugen, free for public use.

  • S3 · E7
    Nov 20, 2025 · 1 hr 10 min

    "What NOT to do in therapy! Learning from our common mistakes" - Mick Cooper, Ph.D.

    Why do therapists keep making the same avoidable mistakes? In this episode, Dr. Bruce Wampold sits down with Dr. Mick Cooper — Professor of Counseling Psychology at the University of Roehampton and an internationally recognized expert in humanistic, existential, and pluralistic therapies. Together, Bruce and Mick break down common therapist mistakes and their impact on the therapeutic alliance. Through fun and helpful role-plays, they even demonstrate how these common mistakes can show up in the therapy room, and what more effective responses might look like. -- Topics include: • Being too passive (too much silence, not enough engagement) • Talking too much, or saying things that just aren’t relevant • Being too cognitive and avoiding emotion • Letting that “therapist voice” or rigid techniques get in the way of authenticity • Avoiding affect even when it’s clearly right there • Colluding with the client instead of exploring the meaning • Assuming your preferred model is the “right” one for every client • Failing to explain how therapy works, or why what you’re doing may be helpful Whether you're a clinician, supervisor, trainee, or simply curious about what actually happens in the therapy room, this episode offers a rare, behind-the-scenes look at the micro-skills that matter most. What do YOU think therapists should never do? We’d love to hear your thoughts. Share your perspective in the comments! 🔔 Don’t forget to like, comment, subscribe, and share — your support helps us keep these conversations going. -- 👉 Be sure to also check out Mick's related video! 👈 How NOT to do Counseling: 13 Things to Try and Avoid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOk7mR5mFLE —— Mick Cooper, Ph.D. | Professor of Counseling Psychology, University of Roehampton; Author of numerous books, including: Working at Relational Depth in Counselling and Psychotherapy and Psychology at the Heart of Social Change: Developing a Progressive Vision for Society. Check out his books here! https://www.amazon.com/stores/Mick-Cooper/author/B001H6PZPQ Bruce Wampold, Ph.D. | Emeritus Professor, University of Wisconsin–Madison; Author of The Great Psychotherapy Debate Produced and edited by Geissy Araújo, Ph.D. and Kevin Riordan. —— The Making Therapy Better podcast is brought to you by CarePaths EHR, an electronic health record system designed to help you improve therapy outcomes. https://www.carepaths.com Follow the Making Therapy Better project: 🌐 Website: www.makingtherapybetter.com 📺 YouTube: /@makingtherapybetter 📸 Instagram: /making_therapy_better 💼 LinkedIn: /9223245 Intro/outro music by Chris Haugen, free for public use.

  • S3 · E6
    Oct 7, 2025 · 43 min

    "Belonging As Treatment: The Power of Group Therapy" - Cheri Marmarosh, Ph.D.

    Despite decades of evidence showing that group therapy is often just as effective as individual therapy, it remains underutilized in clinical training and practice. Why? In this episode, Dr. Bruce Wampold sits down with Dr. Cheri Marmarosh — Professor of Clinical Psychology at The George Washington University and one of the world's leading experts on group psychotherapy. Together, they discuss: Why training programs and reimbursement systems still prioritize individual therapy The relational and cultural barriers that make therapists hesitant to lead groups How group therapy addresses isolation, loneliness, and disconnection What it takes to become an effective group leader The challenges and possibilities of running groups online How group dynamics reveal the real-life patterns that shape our relationships If you’re a clinician, educator, or simply curious about how people grow through connection, this episode will remind you that healing doesn’t happen in isolation — it happens in relationship. Correction: Dr. Marmarosh is now a full professor. She was incorectly introduced as associate professor in the introduction. 🔔 Don’t forget to like, comment, subscribe, and share — and stay tuned for more content coming soon! ------ Cheri Marmarosh, Ph.D. | Associate Professor of Clinical Psychology, The George Washington University; Director, Group Psychotherapy Research Lab; Author of Attachment in Group Psychotherapy Bruce Wampold, Ph.D. | Emeritus Professor, University of Wisconsin–Madison; Author of The Great Psychotherapy Debate ------ The Making Therapy Better podcast is brought to you by CarePaths EHR, an electronic health records system designed to help you improve your therapy outcomes. https://www.carepaths.com ------ Follow the Making Therapy Better project: 🌐 Website: www.makingtherapybetter.com 📺 YouTube: /@makingtherapybetter 📸 Instagram: /making_therapy_better 📘 Facebook: /makingtherapybetter 🐦 Twitter: /therapybetter 💼 LinkedIn: /9223245 ------ Produced and edited by Kevin Riordan and Geissy Araújo. Intro/outro music by Chris Haugen, free for public use. #GroupTherapy #Psychotherapy #Therapy #CheriMarmarosh #BruceWampold #AttachmentTheory #MentalHealth #PsychotherapyResearch #Loneliness #Teletherapy #ClinicalTraining #MakingTherapyBetter #MentalHealth

  • S3 · E5
    Aug 23, 2025 · 53 min

    "The Changing Landscape of Mental Health Services" - Mark Olfson, M.D., M.P.H. - s3, e5

    Has the rise of telehealth truly reduced inequities in who has access to psychotherapy? Who is being left behind? How did COVID-19 impact the prevalence of mental illness? These are just a few of the questions Bruce explores in this timely episode with Dr. Mark Olfson, one of the leading experts on mental health services in the U.S. ...And the answers may surprise you! It's no secret that the mental health landscape in countries like the U.S. is shifting rapidly — with rising demand for services, changes in who delivers psychotherapy, and new modalities like telehealth and AI transforming the way people receive care. But what do the data tell us about how these changes are actually impacting population mental health, and mental health services? If you’re a clinician, researcher, or anyone interested in the systems that shape mental health, and mental health services, this episode is for you! Featuring: **** Mark Olfson, MD, MPH | Professor of Clinical Psychiatry, Columbia University; Psychiatrist, New York State Psychiatric Institute **** Bruce Wampold, PhD | Emeritus Professor, University of Wisconsin–Madison; Author of The Great Psychotherapy Debate: The Evidence for What Makes Psychotherapy Work 🔔 Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and share — and stay tuned for more content on the science of psychotherapy and healing! ---- The Making Therapy Better podcast is brought to you by CarePaths EHR, an electronic health records system designed to help you improve your therapy outcomes. (https://www.carepaths.com) ---- Follow the Making Therapy Better project! Website: http://www.makingtherapybetter.com YouTube: / @makingtherapybetter Instagram: ( / making_therapy_better Facebook: / makingtherapybetter Twitter: / therapybetter LinkedIn: / 9223245 ---- The Making Therapy Better podcast is produced and edited by Kevin Riordan and Geissy Araujo. Intro/outro music is by Chris Haugen and is free for public use. ---- #MentalHealthServices #Psychotherapy #Therapy #MindBody #MarkOlfson #BruceWampold #Healing #UW-Madison #Columbia #clinicalpsychology #PsychotherapyResearch #MentalHealth

  • S3 · E4
    Jul 11, 2025 · 1 hr 4 min

    "The Surprising Power of Placebo in Psychotherapy!" - John Kelley, Ph.D.

    Dive into placebo effects in clinical trials, psychotherapy, and even conditions like Parkinson’s. Can a sugar pill really help someone heal? And what if it’s not just the pill, but the expectation of benefit, that drives the outcomes? In this episode, Dr. Bruce Wampold sits down with Dr. John Kelley, one of the world’s leading placebo researchers, to explore how belief, expectation, empathy and the therapeutic relationship profoundly influence outcomes in both medicine and psychotherapy. Plus, they unpack a groundbreaking study that not only changed how we think about placebo effects, but how we think about healing itself. 👉 If you're a clinician, researcher, or just curious about the mind-body connection, this one’s for you. 🧠 Featuring: John Kelley, PhD | Deputy Director of the Program in Placebo Studies & the Therapeutic Encounters, Harvard Medical School; Licensed Psychologist, Massachusetts General Hospital Bruce Wampold, PhD | Emeritus Professor, University of Wisconsin - Madison; Author of The Great Psychotherapy Debate 🔔 Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and share — and stay tuned for more deep dives into the science of healing. ---- The Making Therapy Better podcast is brought to you by CarePaths EHR, an electronic health records system designed to help you improve your therapy outcomes. (https://www.carepaths.com) ---- Follow the Making Therapy Better project! Website: http://www.makingtherapybetter.com YouTube: / @makingtherapybetter Instagram: ( / making_therapy_better Facebook: / makingtherapybetter Twitter: / therapybetter LinkedIn: / 9223245 ---- The Making Therapy Better podcast is produced and edited by Kevin Riordan and Geissy Araujo. Intro/outro music is by Chris Haugen and is free for public use. ---- #PlaceboEffect #Psychotherapy #Therapy #MindBody #JohnKelley #BruceWampold #Healing #Expectations #clinicalpsychology #HarvardMedicalSchool #PsychotherapyResearch #MentalHealth

  • S3 · E3
    Jun 12, 2025 · 1 hr 12 min

    "Better Therapist Training & Supervision" with Louis Castonguay, Ph.D.

    In this inspiring episode, Bruce sits down with Dr. Louis Castonguay from Pennsylvania State University to delve into the evolution and current state of psychotherapist training and education. The discussion covers a broad range of topics, from the risks of holding rigidly to Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) in training programs to importance of intellectual humility and the diminishing focus on foundational psychotherapy skills. Dr. Castonguay argues for an integrated training model that emphasizes trans-theoretical skills and exposing trainees to a wider range of theoretical orientations and perspectives, perhaps especially in programs that will still primarily focus on CBT. The episode also touches on the broader social and existential relevance of psychotherapy in today's complex world. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the future of psychotherapist training and supervision. Dr. Louis Castonguay was awarded the Lifetime Contribution Award by the Society for Psychotherapy Research and is the author of numerous books including How and Why Are Some Therapists Better Than Others?: Understanding Therapist Effects. Dr. Bruce Wampold, your host, is one of the most prominent psychotherapy researchers alive today and has co-authored the hugely influential books on this topic: The Great Psychotherapy Debate: The Evidence for What Makes Psychotherapy Work and the newest edition of Persuasion and Healing: A Comparative Study of Psychotherapy ---- The Making Therapy Better podcast is brought to you by CarePaths EHR, an electronic health records system designed to help you improve your therapy outcomes. (https://www.carepaths.com) ---- Follow the Making Therapy Better project! Website: http://www.makingtherapybetter.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@makingtherapybetter Instagram: (https://www.instagram.com/making_therapy_better Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/makingtherapybetter Twitter: https://twitter.com/therapybetter LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/9223245/ ---- The Making Therapy Better podcast is produced and edited by Kevin Riordan. Intro/outro music is by DELOSound and is free for use under the Pixabay Content License. ----

  • S3 · E2
    May 28, 2025 · 57 min

    "The Roots of Psychotherapy: Persuasion and Healing (revisited)" with Julia Frank, M.D.

    In this engaging episode, Bruce sits down with Dr. Julia Frank to discuss their collaboration on the newly revised edition of 'Persuasion and Healing,' a groundbreaking book on the science and philosophy of psychotherapy originally written by Julia’s father, Jerome Frank. The book has shaped generations of psychotherapists—including Bruce himself—and remains one of the most influential works in the field. Bruce and Julia delve into the rich history behind the seminal work, Jerome Frank’s unique background, the evolution of psychotherapy research, and the critical role of myth and ritual in therapeutic outcomes. This episode is essential listening for anyone interested in the fundamental principles that underpin the effectiveness of psychotherapy across various approaches. Julia Frank, M.D. is emeritus faculty at the George Washington University School of Medicine, director of the Five Trimesters Clinic for pregnant and postpartum women, and co-author of the 2025 edition of 'Persuasion and Healing: A Comparative Study of Psychotherapy.’ Bruce Wampold, Ph.D. is a leading psychotherapy researcher, developer of the contextual model of psychotherapy, and co-author of ‘The Great Psychotherapy Debate: The Evidence for What Makes Psychotherapy Work.’ ---- The Making Therapy Better podcast is brought to you by CarePaths EHR, an electronic health records system designed to help you improve your therapy outcomes. (https://www.carepaths.com) ---- Follow the Making Therapy Better project: Website: http://www.makingtherapybetter.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@makingtherapybetter Instagram: (https://www.instagram.com/making_therapy_better Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/makingtherapybetter Twitter: https://twitter.com/therapybetter LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/9223245/ ---- The Making Therapy Better podcast is produced and edited by Kevin Riordan. Intro/outro music is by DELOSound and is free for use under the Pixabay Content License. ----

  • S3 · E1
    May 15, 2025 · 1 hr 7 min

    "What Makes Therapy Work?" - Scott Miller, Ph.D. interviews Bruce Wampold, Ph.D.

    Why haven’t psychotherapy outcomes improved in decades, despite hundreds of new treatment models and thousands of new randomized controlled trials? In this special episode of the Making Therapy Better podcast, renowned psychotherapy researchers Bruce Wampold and Scott Miller discuss how the field’s obsession with inventing and testing treatment methods may have distracted us from strengthening the relational skills that we know drive better treatment outcomes. Bruce and Scott explore why therapy outcomes have plateaued, what makes some therapists consistently more effective than others, and how clinical training must evolve to focus on measurable interpersonal skills. Bruce Wampold, Ph.D. is Emeritus Professor at the University of Wisconsin–Madison and among the most influential psychotherapy researchers alive today. Scott Miller, Ph.D. is the founder of the International Center for Clinical Excellence and a pioneer in improving clinical training through deliberate practice and measurement-based care. ---- The Making Therapy Better podcast is brought to you by CarePaths EHR, an electronic health records system designed to help you improve your therapy outcomes. (https://www.carepaths.com) ---- Follow the Making Therapy Better project: - Website: (http://www.makingtherapybetter.com) - Instagram: (https://www.instagram.com/making_therapy_better) - Facebook: (https://www.facebook.com/makingtherapybetter) - Twitter: (https://twitter.com/therapybetter) - LinkedIn: (https://www.linkedin.com/groups/9223245/) ---- The Making Therapy Better podcast is produced and edited by Kevin Riordan. Intro/outro music is by DELOSound and is free for use under the Pixabay Content License. ----

  • S2 · E8
    Aug 26, 2024 · 1 hr 4 min

    "How Can AI Help Improve Therapy?" with Zac Imel, Ph.D. - s2, e8

    Zac Imel, PhD is a professor and Director of clinical training in the counseling department at the University of Utah as well as co-founder and Chief Psychotherapy Science officer at Lyssn.io, an AI-powered assessment platform for behavioral health and human services. He has had over 50 papers published in academic journals, with a particular interest in assessing and improving the quality of mental health services in a variety of settings. In this episode, Zac talks to Bruce about his work at Lyssn.io, and how they have used natural language processing to analyze psychotherapy and crisis counseling interactions. Bruce and Zac discuss how cutting edge statistical models are revolutionizing psychotherapy research by allowing for faster analysis of larger sample sizes than ever before. Bruce asks Zac to speculate on how this technology could be used to help therapists improve over the course of their careers and what else he thinks the future holds in terms of the applications of artificial intelligence to mental health services. Follow Making Therapy Better on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/making_therapy_better/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/makingtherapybetter Twitter: https://twitter.com/therapybetter LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/9223245/ The intro and outro music is the Borromeo String Quartet performing Beethoven's "String Quartet No. 3 in D Major" http://www.makingtherapybetter.com Making Therapy Better is sponsored by CarePaths https://www.carepaths.com

  • S2 · E7
    Aug 12, 2024 · 57 min

    "Closing the Global Mental Health Care Gap" with Daisy Singla, Ph.D. - s2, e7

    Daisy Singla, PhD is a clinical psychologist, associate professor in the Department of Psychiatry at the University of Toronto, and senior scientist with the Institute for Mental Health Policy Research at the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health. She has led some of the largest clinical psychotherapy trials in the world, exploring methods for increasing access to mental health services in diverse cultures and settings around the world. She has received awards from the American Psychological Association and the Society Psychotherapy Research, and in 2018 she became the youngest ever recipient of the Pragmatic Clinical Study Award. In this episode, Daisy talks to Bruce about her work to increase access to mental health services in low-income communities around the world, including in rural India and Uganda. She explains how the task sharing model makes it possible to leverage the expertise of mental health professionals along with motivated trainees from local communities to scale up evidence-based treatments in high need areas. She also describes the training and supervision models they employ and offers her insights on how what she’s learned through this work can be applied in North America. Follow Making Therapy Better on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/making_therapy_better/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/makingtherapybetter Twitter: https://twitter.com/therapybetter LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/9223245/ The intro and outro music is the Borromeo String Quartet performing Beethoven's "String Quartet No. 3 in D Major" http://www.makingtherapybetter.com Making Therapy Better is sponsored by CarePaths https://www.carepaths.com

  • S2 · E6
    Jul 29, 2024 · 1 hr 1 min

    "Can Psychosis be Treated with Therapy?" with Michael Garrett, M.D. - s2, e6

    Michael Garrett MD is professor emeritus of Clinical Psychiatry at SUNY Downstate Medical Center in Brooklyn, and previously served as medical director of the Department of Psychiatry at North Central Bronx Hospital, and Deputy Director of Psychiatry at Bellevue Hospital Medical Center in Manhattan. He is the author of Psychotherapy for Psychosis: Integrating Cognitive-Behavioral and Psychodynamic Treatment, which won Second Place in the American Journal of Nursing Book of the Year Award, Psychiatric and Mental Health Nursing Category. His clinical and academic work has focused on better understanding the experience of psychosis and how it can be effectively treated with psychotherapy. In this episode, Bruce talks to Michael about his experience working with clients exhibiting schizophrenia and other psychotic symptoms. Michael explains his understanding of psychosis as originating from a combination of biological predispositions and environmental factors and describes how his integration of both cognitive behavioral and psychodynamic approaches has helped numerous patients who would be considered untreatable by anything other than medication under the previous paradigm. He shares his hopes for the future of psychotherapeutic interventions for psychosis while recognizing that the field is still in the very early stages of understanding how to treat these extremely difficult cases. Follow Making Therapy Better on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/making_therapy_better/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/makingtherapybetter Twitter: https://twitter.com/therapybetter LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/9223245/ The intro and outro music is the Borromeo String Quartet performing Beethoven's "String Quartet No. 3 in D Major" http://www.makingtherapybetter.com Making Therapy Better is sponsored by CarePaths https://www.carepaths.com

  • S2 · E5
    Jul 15, 2024 · 1 hr 7 min

    "What is a Mental Disorder?" with Jerome Wakefield, Ph.D. - s2, e5

    Jerome is a Professor of Social Work at New York University as well as a member of the American Academy of Social Work and Social Welfare, and has sat on editorial boards for the Clinical Social Work Journal and Evolutionary Psychology. He is the author of more than 300 publications appearing in journals in psychology, philosophy, psychiatry, psychoanalysis, and social work, and a number of books, including The loss of sadness: How psychiatry transformed normal sorrow into depressive disorder, which was named Best Psychology Book of 2007 by the Association of American Publishers In this episode, Bruce and Jerome talk about the history of the DSM and psychiatric diagnosis, and Jerome’s working definition of mental disorder as a harmful deviation from biologically designed functioning. They also touch on the fact that a large portion of people who benefit from psychotherapy are not actually suffering from a diagnosable disorder. Jerome criticizes the current system that requires a diagnosis for insurance reimbursement and the difficult ethical situation this forces clinicians into. Finally, they discuss more generally the problems caused by the medicalization of mental health care and how to move forward. Follow Making Therapy Better on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/making_therapy_better/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/makingtherapybetter Twitter: https://twitter.com/therapybetter LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/9223245/ The intro and outro music is the Borromeo String Quartet performing Beethoven's "String Quartet No. 3 in D Major" http://www.makingtherapybetter.com Making Therapy Better is sponsored by CarePaths https://www.carepaths.com

  • S2 · E4
    Jul 1, 2024 · 59 min

    "Psychoanalytic Diagnosis and Supervision" with Nancy McWilliams, Ph.D. - s2, e4

    Nancy McWilliams, PhD is emerita visiting professor of Psychology at Rutgers University and a former president of the American Psychological Association’s Division of Psychoanalysis. She is the author of several books including Psychoanalytic Diagnosis, and Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy: a Practitioner’s Guide. She is the recipient of numerous awards, including the Rosalee Weiss Award, the Laughlin Distinguished Teacher award, and awards for Leadership, Scholarship, and International Academic Excellence from the APA Division of Psychoanalysis. She also maintains a private practice in Lambertville, New Jersey. In this episode, Nancy talks to Bruce about why she favors a psychoanalytic approach to treatment, and how this perspective informs her thinking about diagnosis and supervision. They discuss why psychoanalytic therapy is relevant to lived experiences of therapists and clients rather than simply an interesting historical artifact, as well as the place it might hold in the evolving landscape of mental health care. Follow Making Therapy Better on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/making_therapy_better/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/makingtherapybetter Twitter: https://twitter.com/therapybetter LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/9223245/ The intro and outro music is the Borromeo String Quartet performing Beethoven's "String Quartet No. 3 in D Major" http://www.makingtherapybetter.com Making Therapy Better is sponsored by CarePaths https://www.carepaths.com

  • S2 · E3
    Jun 17, 2024 · 1 hr 3 min

    "Depression and Psychedelic Therapy" with Charles Raison, M.D. - s2, e3

    Dr. Raison is a professor of psychiatry and human ecology at University of Wisconsin-Madison, director of Clinical and Translational Research for Usona Institute, and Director of Research on Spiritual Health for Emory Healthcare. In addition, Dr Raison founded the Center for Compassion Studies at the University of Arizona. His research has focused on novel mechanisms involved in the development and treatment of major depression and on the physical and behavioral effects of compassion training. Recently, Dr. Raison has taken a leadership role in the development of psychedelic medicine, particularly as a treatment for depression. He has received numerous awards, including the Raymond Pearl Award from the Human Biology Association, and being named one of the most influential researchers in the world by Web of Science. His most recent book is The New Mind-Body Science of Depression. In this episode, Charles and Bruce talk about depression as a mind/body phenomenon, and as an evolutionarily adaptive response. Charles shares his thoughts on the present and future of psychedelic-assisted therapy and presents a number of different treatment models and frameworks for understanding why psychedelics are so effective at treating depression for some people. Follow Making Therapy Better on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/making_ther... Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/makingtherap... Twitter: https://twitter.com/therapybetter LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/917... The intro and outro music is the Borromeo String Quartet performing Beethoven's "String Quartet No. 3 in D Major" http://www.makingtherapybetter.com Making Therapy Better is sponsored by CarePaths https://www.carepaths.com

  • S2 · E2
    Jun 3, 2024 · 55 min

    "Treating Depression" with Steve Hollon, Ph.D. - s2, e2

    Steven is a professor of psychology at Vanderbilt University. He has over 300 publications to his name and is the recipient of numerous awards, including, in 2020, the American Psychological Association’s Distinguished Scientific Award for the Applications of Psychology. He has served as Editor of the journal Cognitive Therapy and Research, and president of the Association for Behavioral and Cognitive Therapies. His research focuses on the treatment and prevention of depression, with a particular emphasis on cognitive therapy in comparison to antidepressant medications. In this episode, Bruce talks to Steven about the evolutionary origins of depression and what we know about the most effective treatments for depression and their mechanisms of action. Steven also presents some surprising new data that challenges the long-held belief that the combination of psychotherapy and medication is more effective in the treatment of depression than either one on its own. Follow Making Therapy Better on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/making_ther... Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/makingtherap... Twitter: https://twitter.com/therapybetter LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/917... The intro and outro music is the Borromeo String Quartet performing Beethoven's "String Quartet No. 3 in D Major" http://www.makingtherapybetter.com Making Therapy Better is brought to you by CarePaths https://www.carepaths.com

  • S2 · E1
    May 20, 2024 · 1 hr 6 min

    "The Evolution of Depression" with Ed Hagen, Ph.D. - s2, e1

    Ed received his doctorate in anthropology from UC Santa Barbara, after which he worked at the Institute for Theoretical Biology in Berlin. He is currently a professor of evolutionary anthropology and director of the Bioanthropology Lab at Washington State University Vancouver. His research focuses on evolutionary medicine and finding evolutionary explanations for the origins of substance use and other mental health issues. His work challenges the notion that depression is caused by a dysfunction of the brain and argues that it is likely an adaptive response passed down through natural selection. In this episode, Bruce talks with Ed about his theories and how they can affect the way we view clinical practice. Follow Making Therapy Better on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/making_ther... Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/makingtherap... Twitter: https://twitter.com/therapybetter LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/917... The intro and outro music is the Borromeo String Quartet performing Beethoven's "String Quartet No. 3 in D Major" www.makingtherapybetter.com Making Therapy Better is sponsored by CarePaths https://www.carepaths.com

  • S1 · E12
    Apr 24, 2023 · 52 min

    "Technology and Mental Health Care" with Barrett Griffith, Maureen Hart, Ph.D,, and Geoff Gray, Ph.D. - s1, e12

    Barrett Griffith is CEO of CarePaths, where he has served for over five years, previously as a developer and then as CTO. He has two decades of experience in the tech industry, with much of that time in healthcare IT. Maureen Hart, PhD and Geoff Gray, PhD are both psychologists with years of clinical and managerial experience who saw the potential for technology to improve the quality of mental health care. Together they started CarePaths over twenty years ago as an electronic health records system which now includes practice management and outcomes measurement tools. In 2022 they teamed up with Professor Wampold to launch Making Therapy Better, an educational initiative including a blog, webinar and this podcast, coinciding with the release of Automated Measurement Based Care by Bruce Wampold, PhD, a feature of the new CarePaths Connect Digital Front Door and Mobile app for patients. Their hope is to improve mental health outcomes by providing therapists with reliable information on the benefits and practice of MBC as well as effective and affordable tools for implementing it. In the final episode of Season 1, Bruce talks with the CarePaths team about the founding of their company and the origins of the Making Therapy Better project. They also review some of the most important themes from the first eleven episodes of the podcast and discuss what's in store for Season 2. Follow Making Therapy Better on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/making_ther... Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/makingtherap... Twitter: https://twitter.com/therapybetter LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/917... The intro and outro music is the Borromeo String Quartet performing Beethoven's "String Quartet No. 3 in D Major" www.makingtherapybetter.com Sponsored by CarePaths EHR and Measurement Based Care

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