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M&A Science

Kison Patel

M&A Science, hosted by Kison Patel (Founder & CEO of DealRoom), is your go-to podcast for mastering the art of mergers and acquisitions. Each week, Kison and his expert guests from leading brands like Xerox, FastLap, and Cisco dig deep into real-world M&A strategies, offering actionable insights to optimize your M&A practice.

Whether you're an experienced practitioner or new to the field, M&A Science provides practical advice on key topics like sourcing, due diligence, integration, divestitures, and more. With over 300 episodes, this podcast is the premier thought leadership resource designed to streamline your deal-making process.

Start listening today and visit mascience.com/podcast to access over 300 episodes. Brought to you by DealRoom, the leading M&A optimization platform used by the best M&A teams around the world

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#437
Thursday · 25 min
M&A Horror Stories
A partner's spouse joined a call two weeks from closing. One background check later, a PE deal was dead, along with every dollar spent on diligence and attorney fees. Kison gathered the deal stories practitioners leave out of case studies, with the names removed. Corporate development leaders, attorneys, and advisors share deals that died at the signature line. There's also a roughly $1 billion divestiture that was unwound after a withheld forecast surfaced the morning after the wire. And a losing bidder bought the same company back 18 months later for about 80% less. The pattern across them: a late surprise kills trust faster than it kills valuation. Most of these deals died on something that surfaced too late. DealRoom, the AI-powered operating system for Buyer-Led M&A™, keeps diligence requests, open items, and findings in one place from the start of a deal. That way surprises show up while you can still price them or walk away. See how by clicking here.
#436
October 8 · 53 min
The Vendor Trap That Derails Carve-Outs
Days before closing a carve-out, Danielle Fortier's team found the seller's vendor list was off by dozens of vendors. Danielle, a partner at Cooley with four corporate carve-outs closed this year, explains why: back-office vendors are shared across every business line, and deal leads rarely focus on them early. Her roadmap maps every entanglement, checks it against what the buyer already has, and sends only true gaps to the TSA. Cloud hosting, finance and IT security are the usual traps. Settle TSA length and pricing in the LOI. She has seen sellers assume three months while buyers assumed 18. Her biggest warning is over-relying on the TSA. Six months in, you still go to the seller for everything. That vendor surprise happens when entanglements, gap owners and TSA schedules live in lists nobody fully trusts. DealRoom keeps carve-out diligence, open requests and integration planning in one connected platform, so gaps found in diligence carry into the post-close plan. See how Infoblox consolidated 5+ tools from pipeline through integration: Infoblox's Case Study
#435
October 1 · 43 min
How to Build Trust and Leverage in M&A
"Never use the word 'trust me.' It's those people you can't trust." Jerry Cedicci, Kison Patel's boss from twenty years ago, built hundreds of millions of dollars in real estate, cafes, hotels, and restaurants. This is his playbook. For Jerry, trust is structural. Ask to run the business you're buying, let the seller fire you anytime, and hand them every card so they can't lose. He pushes the other side to name a price first so he never negotiates against himself, and he'll pay full price when the seller finances it. Then Kison raises a competitor he wants to buy that won't share financials. Jerry works it live: skip the financials and ask how many clients, set your threshold, size what the company could become, and offer 6 against an expected 5 to 10. In corporate M&A, Kison notes, earning a seller's trust can take a year, which means tracking targets long before they're ready to sell. Qualfon reviews 75–100 targets a year and runs that pipeline in DealRoom with real-time reporting: read more here.
#434
September 24 · 53 min
The Man Who Taught Kison Patel to See M&A Opportunities
"At the closing table, I left with a check of $10 million." Jerry Cedicci bought a run-down Chicago hotel for $14 million and sold it for $24 million within a year. Jerry grew up in a French orphanage and arrived in the US in 1981 barely speaking English. Kison Patel hunted properties with Jerry about 20 years ago and learned much of his dealmaking from him. When a bank rejected Jerry's loan, he asked exactly why and got $3 million from the next bank. A landlord warned that the average bakery does $450 a day. Jerry's first did $1,500 on day one, and he wrote a $10 million option to buy the building into the lease, exercising it 10 years later. Skipping that option on his Michigan Avenue store was, he says, the biggest mistake of his life. Jerry's costliest mistake was an opportunity he saw and never locked in. Corp dev teams lose targets the same way when the pipeline lives in scattered spreadsheets. Jamf moved its deal tracking into DealRoom and cut deal time in half. Learn more about Jamf's case study here.
#433
September 17 · 48 min
Why PE Rollups Fail the People Who Built the Business
A $100 million preferred equity check with a 15% compounding floor needs $200 million back in five years, and all of it sits ahead of the producers holding common equity. Bill Johnson grew Liberty to $250 million in revenue in seven and a half years without taking on any equity. He explains why Liberty sits out auctions and how Goldman's preferred position in the Newfront sale to Willis crammed down common shareholders. He breaks down a pro forma move PE firms accept: cut an owner's $600,000 pay to a $150,000 salary, then ask for a 10 or 11 multiple on the difference. And he owns Liberty's mistake. After growing too fast, Liberty paused M&A in 2023 at about $150 million in revenue to build systems and upgrade leadership. Liberty's fix was a pre-close integration roadmap, built to integrate each deal within 60 to 90 days. That only holds when diligence and integration plans live in one place. See how Liberty built a single source of M&A truth with DealRoom and recorded $200K cost savings in the first year: read the case study here.
#432
September 10 · 54 min
Why M&A Integration Fails Without Leadership Enablement
Kim Jones, HR Director of M&A One acquired CEO slowed his own deal by a month or two to lock down customer commitments and build relationships with buyer leadership. At announcement, employees clapped. Kim Jones has spent over a decade as an HR deal lead at large tech companies, from single-employee acqui-hires to acquisitions bringing in thousands. The deals that integrated smoothly, she says, were the ones where leaders on both sides were enabled early. Process gets compliance. Trust gets advocacy. Kim explains how closing fast without a plan creates integration debt, why "you'll run independent" needs a shared definition, and why integration should start at LOI. She also covers honest retention conversations, a quarterly org council for tracking talent, and an employee uprising over butterscotch Life Savers. Integration debt builds when the deal thesis and diligence findings never become a plan leaders can carry. DealRoom keeps diligence and integration planning in one connected platform, so the plan exists before close. See how Wipfli runs both in DealRoom, where across its last three transactions not a single person from the incoming firm asked for training: here.
#431
September 3 · 56 min
The Seller's Power Shift: How to Defend Valuation After the LOI
Praveen Ghanta, Founder and CEO of DevHawk Twenty-four hours before diligence expired, the buyer's board came back and cut the offer by almost 50%. Praveen Ghanta bootstrapped HiddenLevers to over $8M ARR at 52% EBITDA and signed an LOI at 16x ARR. Then a $2M enterprise contract with TD slipped, and the private equity owners behind the buyer, Orion, took an ax to the price. Praveen walks through three rounds of renegotiation, setting a walkaway number, and landing around $130M with a small earn-out. He also covers what to define in the LOI before exclusivity, how he cut a $600K sales tax claim to about $100K line by line, and an integration lesson every buyer should hear: his team shipped at two to three times the acquirer's engineering velocity, and that dropped 70% after close. Praveen's technical integration worked because it was mapped during diligence and tied to the earn-out. Sales integration wasn't, and his team lost control on day one. See how SPS Commerce uses DealRoom to carry diligence decisions through to integration: here.
#430
August 27 · 54 min
The Discount Is the Wrong Question in Private Equity Secondaries
Richard Chow, Partner at PJT Partners (NYSE: PJT) Everyone asks the same first question in a secondaries deal: what's the discount. Richard Chow, a partner at PJT Partners who has sat on every side of this market as an LP, a buyer, a portfolio manager at Abu Dhabi's sovereign wealth fund, and now an advisor, says that question misses the point. Chow traces how secondary market volume grew from roughly $10 billion a year in the early 2000s to more than $250 billion today, and lays out what a buyer should actually underwrite instead: the buyer's own cost of capital, how much upside is left in the asset, and where the proceeds go next. He also breaks down how managers mismarket IRR to retail investors using day-one discount math, and the SpaceX valuation call that taught him secondary buyers can rarely see past two years. Chow's advice holds outside secondaries too: don't anchor a decision on one number and skip the strategic picture. DealRoom's Buyer-Led M&A™ framework gives corporate development teams a structured way to drive strategy, alignment, and value creation from day one instead of reacting deal by deal. See the five pillars: Link here.
#429
August 20 · 57 min
How to Finance Acquisitions Without Giving Up Equity
Bill Stone, Founder and CEO of SS&C How do you keep buying companies without eventually losing control of the company you built? SS&C Technologies founder and CEO Bill Stone has spent four decades avoiding exactly that. Rather than treating each acquisition as an isolated transaction, SS&C built a system around protecting ownership, using debt when the economics make sense, paying it down quickly, and creating enough value after close to preserve capacity for the next deal. Bill walks through the decisions behind acquisitions including FMC, GlobeOp, and Blue Prism, his experience taking SS&C private with Carlyle, and the discipline that has allowed the company to keep acquiring across changing markets. What You'll Learn How Bill Stone kept 15% of SS&C through 100 acquisitions The exact revenue-per-head and EBITDA thresholds SS&C screens for Why strategic buyers almost always outbid private equity How to tell a motivated seller from one just fishing for a premium When rollover equity can help retain the management team How Carlyle overruled Stone's own unanimous board vote The one rule that makes Stone walk from a deal every time Every financing decision changes what you can do on the next deal. If you're financing an acquisition and don't have a hard leverage ceiling you actually stick to, DealPilot, powered by M&A Science, has the deal guidance layer to help you set one before you're over-levered on the next deal. ____________________ This episode of M&A Science is presented by DealRoom. DealRoom is the AI-powered operating system for Buyer-Led M&A™ — one connected system for pipeline, diligence, integration, and reporting. No tool-switching, no manual updates, no data gaps. See how it works: https://hubs.ly/Q04mcGKy0 ____________________ Episode Chapters [00:00] Intro and Guest Bio Check [04:27] Protecting Ownership From Bankers [07:32] Pivoting to the Buy Side [12:12] Cutting a Client's Cost 91% [12:32] Technology Cycles From Excel to AI [15:14] First Acquisition and Going Public [16:26] Balancing Investors and Founder Control [20:08] The Carlyle Take-Private Story [27:23] Screening Deals and Cutting Costs Fast [32:02] Reading a Seller's True Motivation [35:29] Winning FMC Under Canadian Rules [42:10] Beating TPG for GlobeOp [45:22] The Leverage Ceiling and Debt Paydown [49:06] Topping Vista for Blue Prism [53:17] Walking Away From a Lying Seller [54:23] Diligence Speed and Trust But Verify [54:58] Valuations and Capital Abundance
#428
August 13 · 47 min
Where AI Actually Helps and Fails in M&A Legal Work
Aaron Binstock, Partner, Co-Head of Private Equity Practice at Cooley LLP Aaron walks Kison Patel through where AI earns its keep in M&A legal work. It drafts well on a single provision, struggles with a full 80-page markup, catches defined-term errors, and benchmarks a repeat client's past deals. Its issues lists overreach, flagging who serves as independent accountant. He shares his reverse prompt ("Is there anything else I can tell you?"), how Cooley handles clients who opt out of AI, and why diligence can now cover all 10,000 contracts instead of the top 100. Bottom line: AI owns nothing. The lawyer owns the result. AI can pull change of control language out of a data room, but someone still checks every chart, and sellers want to know who sees their documents. DealRoom keeps diligence requests, documents, and permissions in one place. IVC Evidensia's result: review time cut from 30 minutes to 2. https://dealroom.net/case-studies/how-ivc-evidensia-executes-300-plus-roll-ups-per-year-with-dealroom?utm_source=libsyn&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=ep428-show-notes
#427
August 6 · 53 min
The Back-Office Surprises Nobody Warned You About When Going Global
Jennifer Lipschultz, Sr. Director Merger & Acquisition Integration and Corporate Project Management Due diligence said the target's employees were fluent in English. Six months after close, Jennifer Lipschultz was approving funding for business English classes. Lipschultz, Senior Director of M&A Integration and Corporate Project Management at ECI Software Solutions, has run integration on 20-plus acquisitions across the Netherlands, Germany, India, and Sweden. She covers the back-office surprises standard diligence misses: English proficiency that doesn't carry over between acquisitions in the same country, a German go-live that required translating the website, support portal, and billing systems on the same day, and works council negotiations to harmonize benefits across entities. Every surprise means coordinating payroll, HR, IT, and legal on one timeline, deal after deal. Lipschultz's point about herding payroll, HR, IT, and legal onto one timeline for every cross-border deal is the problem DealRoom Integration was built for: diligence findings and task owners carry straight into the integration plan, with dependencies that adjust automatically so one missed handoff doesn't blow the go-live date. DealRoom customers see a 50% reduction in people-hours per deal. See how it works: click here.
#426
July 29 · 1 hr
How to Structure an Acquihire Deal in the AI Talent Race
Derek Liu, M&A Partner at Baker McKenzie Acquihires used to be priced at roughly a million dollars per engineer. Now buyers pay hundreds of millions, sometimes billions, for a team, and the old deal structures can't carry that weight. Derek Liu, M&A Partner at Baker McKenzie, explains why tax leakage is pushing these deals back to stock purchases, so you inherit the whole company when you only wanted the people. Diligence flips with it: less time protecting IP, more time validating engineers before signing and planning how to exit what you don't need. He also covers why some acquirers now ask founders to revest 100% of their proceeds. "We're not paying you for what you've already built." Derek's clients keep asking, "What's taking so long? All we want are the people." Part of the answer is wind-down diligence: which customer contracts you can exit, and which roles have to go before close. DealRoom Diligence lets you create, assign, and track every one of those requests in one workspace, built to "reduce your due diligence time by 50% by centralizing your diligence process." See how it works: click here
#425
July 23 · 50 min
What Buyers Want from Bankers and Founders
Andrew Morbitzer, VP of Corporate Development, Life360 (ASX: 360) Inbound deals have an "infinitesimally small chance" of landing on a buyer's shortlist of two or three targets. Andrew Morbitzer led more than $2 billion in acquisitions at Intuit and GoDaddy, worked the sell side as an advisor, and now runs corp dev at Life360 as a team of one. He explains why most teasers bounce ("It's all about them. It's not about me.") and what earns meetings two, three, and four: a pitch tailored to each buyer, built from investor updates, earnings calls, and the CEO's own words on stage. He also walks through a deal, backed by a two-year founder relationship, that fell apart after a top-five bank sent a data-sheet teaser. The business was losing more money on every new customer. His team spent seven days in raw data to find that, and Andrew says AI with access to the data would find it in minutes. DealRoom MCP connects Claude, ChatGPT, Copilot, or Gemini to your live deal data, so your AI can analyze diligence documents and write findings back with source citations. See how it works: click here
#424
July 16 · 48 min
220 Deals. One Playbook. How to Scale M&A Without Losing Control
Shawn Rodricks, Head of M&A - Independent Consultant "I can be the best corp dev individual in the world. I get my integrations wrong, I've lost the transaction." Shawn Rodricks learned that in year one at Amerivet Veterinary Partners, when he rushed integration on a late deal, left the banking with the seller, and the funds became hard to track. Shawn has closed about 220 acquisitions across Rexall and Amerivet, at times three to five a week. He breaks down the operating model behind that pace: a cross-department playbook that names the task, owner, and timeline for every stage, a closing-week SWAT team for when deals stack up, a probability-weighted pipeline that tells finance when to fund, and a clear line between what must be integrated before close and what can wait. Shawn's rule is that a playbook has to "live and breathe with every transaction." IVC Evidensia, a veterinary roll-up running repeatable diligence processes and centralized deal tracking in DealRoom, completed 56 deals in a single month. See how they run it: click here
#423
July 9 · 53 min
How to Build a Deal Model That Beats PE on Price
Jeremy Segal, Executive Vice President of Corporate Development, Progress (NASDAQ: PRGS) Progress beat several reputable PE firms for Chef without paying more. The edge was a cost model PE couldn't copy: Chef's expensive engineers moved to Progress's Bangalore center of excellence, and its field sales team shifted to an inside sales motion. Jeremy Segal has done close to 50 acquisitions over 25-plus years. He breaks down how Progress models cost synergies before LOI using only what it can execute with high confidence. He explains why Progress won't retrade after signing unless the numbers prove materially different, and the "orange flag" system that sends diligence friction straight to the CEO and CFO. He also covers the ShareFile carve-out, retention when a target's IPO hopes fall through, and why private valuations still haven't caught up to public markets. Jeremy's first orange flag is basic information requests that sit unanswered for two or three weeks. DealRoom Diligence tracks every request, owner, and deadline for your team and the seller in one place, with automated status alerts, so a stalled request shows up long before week three. See how it works: click here
#422
July 2 · 58 min
The People You Lose in M&A: Key Talent Retention Before Close
Haseeb Jawad, VP and Head of Corporate Development, Commvault (NASDAQ: CVLT) Most acquirers build retention around the bonus. Haseeb Jawad puts money third. His order is heart, brain, then pocket: win people through your actions from Day 1, convince them with a better-together story you actually believe, then get the financial package right. Even that can backfire. He shares how a delayed retention payment, caught up in payroll processing, undercut the goodwill his team had built. Haseeb runs a lean corp dev team at Commvault that owns deals from sourcing through integration, and he leads the IMO himself. That keeps the business case honest: if he models an IT or headcount synergy, he has to deliver it. He also makes the case for employee-by-employee diligence after LOI instead of treating people as an Excel line item. Haseeb's rule is that every business case assumption needs an operational plan behind it. DealRoom's Synergy Tracker is built for that: define each synergy, tie it to an owner, a value, and a date, and link it to the integration plan so you can track what gets realized after close. Click here to learn more.
#421
June 25 · 54 min
How to Buy Companies That Aren't Profitable Yet
Matt Arsenault, VP of Corporate Development & Strategic Alliances at Jamf "A $25 million M&A deal today can be just as valuable to a founding team as a $125 million deal three years from now." Matt Arsenault has run that math with enough founders to know it changes deals. Matt walks Kison through how VCs price a company on the management team and the size of the disruption opportunity, and why AI wrapper startups are now valued as acqui-hires. He shows how a liquidation preference turns a "$100 million" company into a $21 million payout for the founders. Then he lays out how to close a valuation gap: build the founder relationship before the fundraise, map the seven or eight stakeholders in every deal, and match retention, earnouts, and deferred payments to the right group. Matt keeps scheduled check-ins with investors in the spaces Jamf targets, so the hard conversation never starts cold. His team runs Jamf's M&A process in DealRoom, from pipeline through integration, and cut deal time in half. See how Jamf does it: Click here.
#420
June 18 · 1 hr
When Deals Get Weird: Stories You Don't See in the CIM
Nathan Rust, Lutz Lehmann, Troy Pospisil, Jeremy Segal, Patrick Mumman, Tej Brahmbhatt, George Helock, and Angie Astle A background check killed a deal a week before close, after the QoE and the IT and cyber diligence were already done. George Helock's fix: run background checks on everyone with money tied into the business, and ask for them at the NDA stage. Recorded live at DealMax, this episode collects eight deal surprises the CIM never shows. Troy Pospisil was told revenue-by-customer data didn't exist, asked how the company invoiced, and pulled eight years of it off a late-'80s IBM. Jeremy Segal lost a deal at signing to a co-founder who was never fully on board. Angie Astle's first acquisition was heading toward bankruptcy mid-diligence, so Chugach bought the bank's debt and took ownership through Chapter 11. George's lesson is about timing: the request that can kill a deal should go out first, not in the final week. DealRoom Diligence lets you create, assign, and track every request from day one and connect findings directly to the diligence data, so red flags surface while you can still walk away early. See how it works: click here.
#419
June 11 · 57 min
The Real Work Behind the Close: When Judgment Beats the Checklist
Brent Baxter, Sam Delestienne, Steve Hoffman, John Strenger, and Matt Melsen "Reputation and trust can make up for a $15 million bid difference." Sam Delestienne of Diploma PLC proved it. He won Peerless Aerospace Fasteners at a five percent discount to the highest bid, after a door blew off an Alaska Airlines jet mid-process. Recorded live at DealMax, five practitioners walk through the moments when the checklist ran out. ACG CEO Brent Baxter gets a deal closed after the sellers came to blows over valuation. Steve Hoffman of Vensure works through a 14-month carve-out with 125 employees across 22 countries. John Strenger and Matt Melsen take SPS Commerce into its first European deal: documents in Dutch, a works council nobody could confirm, and diligence answers that turned out wrong after close. Matt Melsen's rule for that handoff: "Decisions made during due diligence need to be executed in PMI." It's why SPS Commerce runs its M&A in DealRoom, so diligence decisions don't get lost on the way to integration. Read how SPS does it: click here.
#418
June 4 · 40 min
The Nordic Compounder Playbook: How Jörgen Wigh Runs 85 Companies With 22 HQ Staff and No Integration
Jörgen Wigh, CEO of Lagercrantz Group Lagercrantz Group targets a 10% deal failure rate. On purpose. "That's very un-American to say that, but there needs to be a failure rate," says CEO Jörgen Wigh, who runs 85 companies with about 22 people at headquarters. Part 2 is the operating system behind that number. Jörgen walks through deal governance (a go/no-go before the bid, another before the LOI, board sign-off before close) and why the person who sources a deal keeps it afterward, with no handover. He also explains why the compounder model clusters in the Nordics, why a 30-page SPA beats a 300-page one, and how a founder who backed out twice finally sold. New to the series? Start with Part 1 on the deal model. Jörgen targets six weeks from LOI to signed deal, and he calls three-day diligence reckless. DealRoom Diligence gives a lean deal team one place to assign requests, track seller responses, and log findings, with a built-in data room. Cut 25+ manual hours without skipping steps: click here.

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