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Lean Out with Tara Henley

Tara Henley

Tara Henley is a Canadian journalist and bestselling author. On the Lean Out podcast, she interviews heterodox writers and thinkers from around the world, in an attempt to widen the Overton window of acceptable thought in society. You can learn more about her work at tarahenley.substack.com

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  • 20 episodes
  • weekly
  • Avg 37 min
  • English
  • Saturday · 13 min

    The Next Chapter

    In January of 2022, during one of Toronto’s never-ending pandemic lockdowns, I launched Lean Out from the tiny kitchen of my 485-square-foot apartment. I had just left legacy media, somewhat loudly. I had been a current affairs radio producer at Canada’s national public broadcaster, the CBC. And I was worried that journalists were getting some of the biggest stories of our age wrong. I was fed up with our incuriosity on a range of hot-button issues, from pandemic policy to race and gender. The newsrooms felt increasingly stifling. It had become more and more difficult to engage in debate during story meetings, to stray from established narratives, and to put alternative voices on the air. At the same time, I was hearing from a public that was increasingly furious with the press that was supposed to serve them. Time and time again, people would ask me: Why are you all ignoring the views and concerns of so many of our fellow citizens? What is going on with the media? This, at a time when a strong fourth estate had never been more important. The public square was nasty and polarized. I watched wave after wave of online pile-onsand cancellation campaigns. Whole newsrooms joined in, too, purging established journalists for the slightest of infractions. The range of acceptable opinions for polite society became breathtakingly narrow. In private, journalists told me they were terrified. I feared we were losing some of the pillars of Western liberal democracy — and fast. And me? I was bereft. Thinking and reading and writing and talking about ideas had been the great joy of my life. It had never occurred to me that that might be taken from me. So, I decided to take a stand for civil dialogue and for open debate. I decided that we needed to stop having candid conversations in private and start having them in public. Lean Out was an appeal for speaking freely. At the Lean Out Substack, we began publishing essays and op-eds and news roundups and written Q&A interviews, and hosting guest columnists. And on our first podcast, I posed some questions that I hoped to delve into on the program: Why is there now so much that we cannot say? Why are so many things off the table for discussion and debate? Why does all of this social justice talk feel so elitist? And why are so many of the people that progressives are supposedly fighting for just not that interested? Why are so many people tuning the media out? Five years on, we have some answers to these questions — and we’ve found them together. Our show has listeners in more than 150 countries and 7,000 cities worldwide. This summer, we hit a milestone of one million downloads. It’s not bad for a niche Canadian current affairs podcast, largely focused on heterodox non-fiction books (and sometimes articles). Lean Out has published 256 episodes, featuring authors and journalists and academics from around the world and across the political spectrum. Our listeners, too, represent every political persuasion. We hear from Marxists, but we also hear from staunch conservatives — and, of course, from the politically homeless. Somehow, we’ve all managed to forge a little common ground. What is that common ground? I think it rests on the conviction that most people are reasonable. That they are generally thoughtful adults that are doing the best they can to chart a path through this turbulent time. This common ground rests on the conviction that what most people want to better understand the moment we are living through, in all its complexity. That most of us can disagree without disparaging. That most of us are open to hearing new perspectives, and, in fact, feel richer for having been exposed to them. And, crucially, that we all have the capacity to change our minds. This common ground we have built rests on a deep faith in our fellow citizens. And isn’t that what democracy is all about ? This podcast has been the assignment of a lifetime, so it’s been a difficult decision to bring this project to a close — though the Substack will continue offering plenty of written content. In the meantime, I want to say that I am so grateful to you, our subscribers, for supporting the podcast portion of Lean Out. Each and every week, I got to speak to some of the most interesting and original writers and thinkers in the world. It was a volatile but fascinating time, in the media and elsewhere, and I got to cover it, in real time, as it unfolded. In the process, some key themes for Lean Out emerged: pandemic policy, political polarization, the dire economic picture, particularly for our young people. A growing rage and a troubling censoriousness in our culture. The highs and lows of Canadian and American politics. The tensions between men and women. The crises facing modern men, including mental health, and the state of modern feminism, including our complicated relationship to the declining birth rate. Plus, the emergence of the woke left (which the American congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez herself has now characterized as “crazy”). And, more recently, the ascendance of the woke right, which I am increasingly concerned about ... You can read the whole post at https://tarahenley.substack.com/p/the-next-chapter You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

  • July 22 · 3 min

    Lean Out is On Hiatus

    In the maelstrom that is modern life, we’ve lost any sense of seasonality. These days, the summer is as non-stop as any other time of the year and the long, sun-drenched days can come and go without any real rest or relaxation. But we remember a time in the not-too-distant past when July and August offered a welcome lull — a time to retreat, to recharge, to reinvent. To dream, even. The summer felt expansive, wondrous. We're convinced that this annual reprieve was essential for maintaining sanity. So this year, we’ve decided to bring back the slow summer. It’s been a busy 2026 so far at Lean Out, during our fifth year in operation. The newsletter has surpassed eight million views and has been on the Substack bestseller list. The podcast, meanwhile, has just published its 256th episode. Not bad for a niche Canadian outlet dedicated to heterodox non-fiction current affairs books (and sometimes articles). That’s all down to you, Lean Out’s wonderful subscribers, and we can’t thank you enough for your support. Tara's latest book, based on the work that we’ve been doing here — and on the 2024 Massey Essay — will be released in North America at the end of this month. (Pre-orders are helpful, should you be so inclined.) The Trust Spiral: Why the Media Needs Objectivity is already getting a great response and it has been especially gratifying to field interview requests from across the political spectrum. Lean Out normally goes dark for three weeks in the summer, but this year we are taking an extended break as Tara promotes her new book and then takes a few weeks of much-needed time offline — hopefully in the wilds of British Columbia. All monthly payments have been paused as of today, and yearly subscriptions will be extended when we resume production in the fall. As we slow down and reflect on the year so far — and mull over where Lean Out might go next — we'd love to hear from you on what is working and not working about this newsletter and podcast. Your feedback is most welcome. In the meantime, our hope for all of you is that you are also able to unplug at least a bit this summer, rediscovering all of the things that make life most worth living, from nature and travel to food and family and friendship and community. And of course, good books! We'll be doing our best to recapture that same spirit of adventure and discovery, and will share it with you all when we return in the fall. You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

  • July 15 · 41 min

    EP 256: Why the Media Needs Objectivity

    One of the themes of the Lean Out podcast is a crisis in confidence in the mainstream media. In a few weeks, Tara's new book on this topic will be released in the United States and Canada. The Trust Spiral: Why the Media Needs Objectivity unpacks where the press has gone wrong — and what it needs to do to regain the public’s trust. Cardus in Ottawa hosted Tara for an event on June 9, where she was joined on-stage by a fellow Canadian journalist. We are happy to share a portion of that discussion this week. Stuart Thomson is a Canadian journalist and the Parliamentary bureau chief for The National Post. You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

  • July 8 · 37 min

    EP 255: Terry Glavin on the Aftermath of the Year of the Graves

    It has now five years since the Kamloops band made an announcement of the discovery of the "remains of 215 children” at the former Kamloops Indian Residential School, kicking off an intense period of national grief and anger. A month ago, The Globe and Mail editorial board made news around the world, declaring the national press’s lack of scrutiny of the claim a “failure of journalism.” Our guest on the program this week is an award-winning journalist who was early on this story — and he’s here to unpack its aftermath. Terry Glavin is a Canadian journalist, an author, and a columnist for The National Post. You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

  • July 1 · 45 min

    EP 254: Eric Merkley on Why We're Polarized in Canada

    It’s Canada Day and many of us are reflecting on our nation and where we are at. We know that we are more divided than ever, but how did we get here? Our guest on the program this week has just written a book on political polarization in the country. He says the roots of our divisions run deep — and the consequences are dire. Eric Merkley is an assistant professor of political science at the University of Toronto, and director of the Policy, Elections, and Representation Lab. His new book is Polarization, Eh? The Causes and Consequences of Affective Polarization in Canada. You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

  • June 24 · 53 min

    EP 253: In Memoriam: David Cayley

    On June 10, the Canadian broadcaster David Cayley passed away, surrounded by loved ones, playing bluegrass music. He died in the Toronto home that he had shared with his wife for the past 42 years. It was a home that I had just begun visiting him at in recent months, drinking coffee and talking about books and ideas. David was a brilliant mind, a generous person, a fearless soul. As his friend and former executive producer Bernie Lucht told me this week, “David simply did not accept standing narratives.” I had great admiration and respect for him. I am happy to replay our recent interview, in tribute to David and all that he was. You can hear his smile in voice. David Cayley was a Canadian broadcaster. He was a husband and a father and a grandfather, and a friend to many. For thirty years, he made documentaries for the CBC Radio program Ideas. He was also the author of eight books. His last was The CBC: How Canada’s Public Broadcaster Lost Its Voice (And How to Get It Back). You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

  • June 17 · 40 min

    EP 252: Tyler Dawson: Why Alberta Separatism is Back

    On October 19, citizens in the province of Alberta will vote on whether they want to proceed with a referendum on separating from the rest of Canada. Our guest on the program this week has written a new book about the history of these tensions — and why they have now come to a head. Tyler Dawson is an opinion editor at The Globe and Mail. His new book is The Republic of Alberta: An Idea That Won’t Go Away. You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

  • June 3 · 38 min

    EP 251: Full Press on How 'Mass Graves' Became Canada's Biggest Journalism Failure

    The big news in Canada this week has been The Globe and Mail editorial board’s admission that the industry and the paper bungled the unmarked graves story from 2021 — that this in fact constituted a journalistic failure. In light of this, we are bringing you an episode of Tara's media criticism podcast with The Hub, Full Press, from last week, which took stock of how we in the Canadian media got this story so wrong. This is an especially important conversation, now that the Senate human rights committee has voted to criminalize residential school denialism, with a penalty of up to two years in prison. (UPDATE: The Canadian Senate as a whole has now voted to reject the criminalization of residential school denialism, voting 41 to 32 against it.) Thanks for listening, and thank you to The Hub for giving us permission to re-air this episode. You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

  • May 27 · 51 min

    EP 250: Is Phoebe Maltz Bovy the Last Straight Woman?

    You wouldn’t think that a woman declaring that she is into men would a subversive act — but at some point during recent years, this became the case in certain circles. Particularly online feminist circles. Our guest on the program this week has written a new book on female heterosexuality and she says it’s time we acknowledge that the vast majority of women are, in fact, straight. Phoebe Maltz Bovy is a Toronto cultural critic. She is the opinion editor for The Canadian Jewish News and co-host of the Feminine Chaos podcast. Her new book is The Last Straight Woman — On Desiring Men. You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

  • May 20 · 1 hr 3 min

    EP 249: Jacob Siegel on Big Tech and the Information State

    Most of us are aware that the digital age we are living through is a time of incredible transformation. But we may not have contemplated what we’d like to see preserved — things like free speech. Some years ago, our guest on this week’s program began investigating political censorship. What he found was bigger, more all-encompassing, and in fact more interesting. In his new book, he argues that we have entered an entirely new political epoch, that of the information state. Jacob Siegel is an American journalist. He is the special features editor for Tablet Magazine and co-host of the Manifesto! podcast. His new book is The Information State: Politics in the Age of Total Control. You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

  • May 13 · 47 min

    Ep 248: Tony Keller on How Canada Lost the Plot on Immigration

    Canada’s immigration system was once the envy of the world. And for decades, the country enjoyed a bipartisan pro-immigration consensus. But during the Trudeau years, that consensus fell apart. Our guest on the program this week delivered the 2025 McGill Max Bell Lectures on this topic. His new book explores where we went wrong. Tony Keller is a columnist at The Globe and Mail. His book is Borderline Chaos: How Canada Got Immigration Right, and Then Wrong. It has been shortlisted for the Donner Prize, which will be awarded tomorrow night in Toronto. You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

  • May 6 · 33 min

    EP 247: Why Are Gen Z Girls Miserable? Freya India Explains

    We know that young women are increasingly unhappy — with high rates of depression and anxiety — and our guest on the program this week says there’s good reason for that. In her new book, she argues that girlhood has dramatically changed in the Internet era and that young women have been transformed from people into products. Freya India is a British writer and commentator, and a staff writer at Jonathan Haidt’s newsletter After Babel. Her new book is GIRLS: Generation Z and the Commodification of Everything. You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

  • April 29 · 34 min

    EP 246: Tom Junod: What Does It Mean to Be a Man?

    What does it mean to be a man? Our guest on the program this week has published a book that examines that very question. It is part memoir, part meditation on masculinity, and part detective story — as he unearths the secret life of his charismatic alpha male father and forges a new version of manhood, putting himself and his family back together on the page. Tom Junod is an award-winning American journalist and a senior writer for ESPN. The film A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood is based on an article that he wrote for Esquire. Tom’s new memoir is In the Days of My Youth I Was Told What It Means to Be a Man. You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

  • April 22 · 37 min

    EP 245: John Tomasi on the Diversity We Don't Discuss

    In recent years, viewpoint diversity has become a loaded term. But our guest on the program this week says it is vital that we renew our commitment to dialogue, especially across lines of difference. He has edited a new book that brings together prominent professors and journalists to make the case for free speech, intellectual humility, and societal pluralism — in higher education, politics, and the literary world. John Tomasi is an American political philosopher and the president of Heterodox Academy. He is the editor, with Bernard Schweizer, of the new book Viewpoint Diversity: What It Is, Why We Need It, and How to Get It. You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

  • April 16 · 44 min

    EP 244: Ric Esther Bienstock on the Campus Culture Wars

    There can be no doubt that we are living through politically charged times — and this is especially true at North American universities. My guest on the program this week has spent the past decade making a documentary about unrest on campus. She says many faculty and students are now afraid to debate the big issues of our time, and she worries that we are losing the ability to speak across differences. Ric Esther Bienstock is an Emmy Award-winning Canadian filmmaker. Her new two-part documentary, Speechless, is available for streaming now on CBC Gem. You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

  • April 8 · 39 min

    EP 243: John Fraser on Canada's Most Misunderstood Job

    We are at a pivotal moment in Canada, as we reflect on our past and try to forge a more unified future in the face of tensions with the United States. Our guest on the program says now is a good time to reexamine our key institutions. This week, he has published an entertaining new book about the office of Governor General, just as speculation abounds that we may be about to get a new one. John Fraser is a veteran Canadian journalist, an author, and an academic. He is a former Master of Massey College, and the current executive chair of the National NewsMedia Council of Canada. His latest book is The Governors General: An Intimate History of Canada’s Highest Office. You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

  • April 1 · 27 min

    EP 242: Leah Libresco Sargeant: Rethinking Feminism

    In the United States right now, a group of feminists is taking stock of the movement — where it is at and where it’s gone wrong. Our guest on the program this week is one of those feminists. Her new book argues that our problem is we’ve bought into an idea of radical autonomy, which is not possible for human beings. It is, in fact, disconnected from physical reality. Leah Libresco Sargeant is an American writer. She runs the Substack newsletter Other Feminisms and her latest book is The Dignity of Dependence: A Feminist Manifesto. You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

  • March 25 · 37 min

    EP 241: Laurie Woolever on Addiction, Recovery - and Anthony Bourdain

    This week on the Lean Out podcast we are shifting our focus from the political to the personal. Our guest on the program has written a remarkable memoir about her time in the food world, her story of addiction and recovery — and what she learned from her years collaborating with the late Anthony Bourdain. Laurie Woolever is an American writer and editor. Her latest book, a New York Times bestseller, is Care and Feeding: A Memoir. You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

  • March 18 · 30 min

    EP 240: Jason Mangone: Inside Trump's America

    As tensions mount within the United States — and between the United States and Canada — it has never been more important to understand each other. Our guest on the program this week is the head of a depolarization non-profit and his latest research paints a nuanced and complex portrait of Trump voters and the cultural attitudes and policy positions that energize them. Jason Mangone is the executive director of More in Common U.S. Its latest report is Beyond MAGA: A Profile of the Trump Coalition. You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

  • March 11 · 36 min

    EP 239: Mark Oppenheimer on the Life and Times of Judy Blume

    Many of us grew up reading classics from the great Judy Blume, from Are You There, God? It’s Me, Margaret to Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing. Blume, now in her eighties, is famous for writing about childhood and adolescence with humour and heart. This week, our guest on the program has published a remarkable book documenting her life story. Mark Oppenheimer is an American journalist and author. He’s the editor of the online religion and politics magazine ARC. His latest book is Judy Blume: A Life. You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

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